Sea Titans

HarleeKnight · Unread post by **HarleeKnight** » Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:48 am

Can they get fat? Can they bulk up? ...or are they stuck with the physique they had when they changed? Do they even have a metabolism, as they no longer eat? They do continue to grow into adulthood if they change young.

Brayon · Unread post by **Brayon** » Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:57 am

Based on the stated text in the book, my opinion would be: No, they wouldn't get fat. They would still look like what they were when they changed from Normal to Supernatural at puberty. Since they are basically in Military School, from Birth with other Titans, & Normals, they would be on an exercise program, & would be athletic by the time the change happens.

Nekira Sudacne · Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:26 am

HarleeKnight wrote:Can they get fat? Can they bulk up? ...or are they stuck with the physique they had when they changed? Do they even have a metabolism, as they no longer eat? They do continue to grow into adulthood if they change young.

I don't think they can get fat, I beleive they continue to grow into adulthood--nothing says they look like a race of people trapped a puberty, which would be mentioned in apperance if they are. I also think just because they don't have to eat dosn't mean they cannot eat.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Fri Oct 09, 2015 12:58 pm

I say sure.
Appearance has very little to do with attributes.

drewkitty ~..~ · Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:44 pm

I would say that, just like with normal humans, those with sedentary lives could....but you are not going to find any of those in the New Navy.

Q99 · Unread post by **Q99** » Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:39 pm

I'd say they *could*, but they'd really have to work at it (i.e. they'd probably have to eat a good deal more than a non-titan human to put on the same amount of fat), and like Drew Kitty says, their lifestyle rarely lends itself to it.

Pepsi Jedi · Unread post by **Pepsi Jedi** » Sun Oct 11, 2015 1:52 am

Some of them end up in non front line, civilian fields don't they? Scientists and such. So, sure they could get fat. They're not gods.

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Mon Oct 12, 2015 10:30 pm

I think Sea Titans and Dragons can get fat but that their high strength and MDC should allow them to burn off more energy in lieu of ambient PPE.

Would also like to see rules on how they starve to death quicker in low PPE dimensions or if you trap them in a PPEless void or something.

Brayon · Unread post by **Brayon** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:51 am

Brayon wrote:Based on the stated text in the book, my opinion would be: No, they wouldn't get fat. They would still look like what they were when they changed from Normal to Supernatural at puberty. Since they are basically in Military School, from Birth with other Titans, & Normals, they would be on an exercise program, & would be athletic by the time the change happens.

Broke the book out, & re-read the entry. According to the Text, they still age to their early 20's. Also, I don't think they can get fat at all. They don't need to Eat, or Drink, for nourishment, again according to text, so that to me at least, means, even if they did eat, their bodies wouldn't get anything from it. Their digestive system would still break it down, but wouldn't absorb it as it is no longer needed. Eating to them would be hedonistic, & for pleasure/appearance/cover only.

CyCo · Unread post by **CyCo** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:07 pm

say652 wrote:I say sure.
Appearance has very little to do with attributes.

With the possible exception being PB.

8p

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:53 am

Even then I have to wonder. Could make a whole thread about picture/PB inconsistencies.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:21 am

Questions.

Can I pick a different occ at level 1??

Does that qualify for the Dual Class double experience point per level penalty??

Brayon · Unread post by **Brayon** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:13 pm

say652 wrote:Questions.

Can I pick a different occ at level 1??

Does that qualify for the Dual Class double experience point per level penalty??

Only if you've been 1st level for 200+ years, then you can. Highly unlikely.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:15 pm

What about starting as an sdc young Sea Titan?

Brayon · Unread post by **Brayon** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:21 pm

say652 wrote:What about starting as an sdc young Sea Titan?

Based on Text alone, I would doubt it. In the New Navy Society, Sea Titans are bred for one purpose, & they all go through the same program. You would have to have one very lenient G.M. who allows a backstory that included one of the Lone World Explore Sea Titans, having kids outside of the New Navy society. It gets lonely on the road, & accidents happen, ya know. That would be the only case I would allow it, & hopefully, dad or mom, is around to explain to little Junior what (s)he is, & how to handle it.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:30 pm

Mind totally Blanked and effectively restarted?

Stolen Sea Titan reprogrammed as well whatever.

They are unaging. Perfect rebootable soldier.

Brayon · Unread post by **Brayon** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:51 pm

say652 wrote:Mind totally Blanked and effectively restarted?

Stolen Sea Titan reprogrammed as well whatever.

They are unaging. Perfect rebootable soldier.

Depends on the G.M. I personally, wouldn't allow it, due to the Mystical Energy transformation that created their new line of species. Also, we don't even know what the long term affects of this Lemurian Experiment that went random does. With their regenerative powers, plus the fact that only 200+ year olds can take a Second class, at double XP, lends me to believe that those neural pathways regenerate as well. The effort to do a second class is something a well experience Sea Titan can only do, & even then is difficult.

drewkitty ~..~ · Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:15 pm

say652 wrote:What about starting as an sdc young Sea Titan?

Before coming into their powers they are the same as normal humans.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:21 pm

So any sdc human could potentially mutate to a Sea Titan?

Brayon · Unread post by **Brayon** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:52 pm

say652 wrote:So any sdc human could potentially mutate to a Sea Titan?

No. Only the offspring of Sea Titans can become Sea Titans. When they are born, they are normal humans until they hit puberty. Then change to Superbeings. The powers are hereditary, and pass from Parent to children. (There's about 2000 New Navy Sea Titans now, because of this. Almost all are in the Navy, as the R.C.C., & with very few exceptions.)

The Experiment was a Lemurian designed one, that can not be replicated, per the Note at the end of the Sea Titan entry. So, the only way a new Sea Titan can be had is by breeding.

Sea Titan + Partner = Always will be a Sea Titan offspring. Remember Palladium's rule on Cross-Breeds, so Only other Sea Titans, & Humans can be partners. As stated in the Text Entry as well.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:17 pm

So creating new ones no.

Breeding with humans yes.

Even though the occ offers master psionics, being a Sea Titan Zapper is not allowed?

Brayon · Unread post by **Brayon** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:28 pm

say652 wrote:So creating new ones no.

Breeding with humans yes.

Even though the occ offers master psionics, being a Sea Titan Zapper is not allowed?

By default, no a Sea Titan Zapper wouldn't be allowed at creation, if they were born in the New Navy. However, there are two ways one could be.

Way 1: New Navy Sea Titan reaches 200+ years old, and Dual Classes into a Zapper, provided they had psionics already.

Way 2: Sea Titan born by "accident" outside of the New Navy's sphere of influence, could be any O.C.C. allowed a starting Human, provided they have the training, etc.

EDIT: This is of course is based on Canon material in the WB, GMG, RUE, etc. For House Rules, see your G.M. & YMMV.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:38 pm

My suggestion was since the abilities are allowed since master psionic is available was no occ other skills at level one advance as normal.
And boom you have a Sea Titan Zapper.

Slight001 · Unread post by **Slight001** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:41 pm

The problem is the Sea Titan entry was written from the high minded stand point that no Sea Titan would ever have a one night stand, walk out on their pregnant girlfriend, or not force their child into the new navy's training program.

The Beast · Unread post by **The Beast** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:54 pm

Tor wrote:Even then I have to wonder. Could make a whole thread about picture/PB inconsistencies.

Not enough room on the internet for that.

Brayon · Unread post by **Brayon** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:10 pm

Slight001 wrote:The problem is the Sea Titan entry was written from the high minded stand point that no Sea Titan would ever have a one night stand, walk out on their pregnant girlfriend, or not force their child into the new navy's training program.

This is so true. All sorts of different scenarios of what could happen.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:17 am

So since master psionics are allowed and sailors are lecherous a Sea Titan Zapper is not all that far fetched.

Library Ogre · Unread post by **Library Ogre** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:35 pm

Slight001 wrote:The problem is the Sea Titan entry was written from the high minded stand point that no Sea Titan would ever have a one night stand, walk out on their pregnant girlfriend, or not force their child into the new navy's training program.

Yeah. Sea titans, though human, aren't really presented as such in the entry.

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:34 pm

What part of the text says Sea Titans won't have one night stands again?

Girlfriends don't find out they're pregnant right away, and staying in communication isn't as easy on Rifts Earth as it used to be.

Why am I to think they are immoral enough to FORCE a child into a military training program, yet moral enough to care about child support?

I personally think Sea Titans are MORE likely to have one night stands. Think "I'm doing humanity a favour". Their kids are tougher than normal in youth and godlike as adults. Even if they have a crappy childhood, so long as they survive, their awesome adulthood will more than make up for it.

Heck even if the kid gets pre-teen pregnant, it still helps spread the superior genes and elevate humanity against the enemy.

The bit about new OCC at 200ish I think is merely a guideline, not a hard rule against using the changing/multiple OCC rules Palladium has released.

HarleeKnight · Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:31 am

Tor wrote:What part of the text says Sea Titans won't have one night stands again?

Girlfriends don't find out they're pregnant right away, and staying in communication isn't as easy on Rifts Earth as it used to be.

Why am I to think they are immoral enough to FORCE a child into a military training program, yet moral enough to care about child support?

I personally think Sea Titans are MORE likely to have one night stands. Think "I'm doing humanity a favour". Their kids are tougher than normal in youth and godlike as adults. Even if they have a crappy childhood, so long as they survive, their awesome adulthood will more than make up for it.

Heck even if the kid gets pre-teen pregnant, it still helps spread the superior genes and elevate humanity against the enemy.

The bit about new OCC at 200ish I think is merely a guideline, not a hard rule against using the changing/multiple OCC rules Palladium has released.

I was going to say the same thing.
I can't see them forcing them into the New Navy, encourage yes, but not force. Ever heard of rebellious teens? I doubt being a parent is much different on Rifts Earth. You try telling my children they have to be what you tell them to be... good luck with that. Most probably will do what their parents want them to be, but a bunch are going to tell mom and dad to stick it because they're going to do and be what they want to be. But just for the sake of arguing, let's say they do try and force their kids to join. What happens when a kid says they won't join?

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Fri Oct 23, 2015 2:28 am

Jail them and experiment on them, obv.

Sea Titans wouldn't need to force anything. They'd just lead by example. Rifts Earth is terrifying and the Ticonderoga is a comparatively safe mobile MDC fortress with a community and purpose.

The main issue I can see is you can only disembark when it ports, so if a rebellious teen wanted to run off, they might steal a boat, and THAT would be a problem.

Hotrod · Unread post by **Hotrod** » Fri Oct 23, 2015 9:24 am

If I were a New Navy civilian, I'd start up a Sea Titan sperm bank.

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:36 am

I guess it would fulfill a useful role for lesbians who want to be mothers or homosexual male sea titans who want to help out.

Since the STs are slightly more beautiful than the average human (not to mention stronger, more agile, faster, enduring) I would initially think that they would have an easier time than normal finding a mundane human partner.

That said... I begin to wonder about the fabric of a mixed society in the New Navy.

I mean... an adult sea titan is immune to harm from basic weaponry, heals like crazy, and can kill you in a single punch. Wouldn't it be kind of terrifying to socialize with them or be in a relationship with them?

Mixing would certainly happen, but it bears consideration that it might be less often than we might initially think based purely on this fear factor.

The use of a bank would be one way to bypass this: you wouldn't actually have to interact in private with one of those scary sea titans, but could still give birth to one.

The dangers of breeding with a sea titan would not exist until they transformed during puberty though. Since they don't turn MDC until 14-19 years old (average 16.5), this means there are a number of SDC teens carrying Sea Titan DNA who could be used to breed with. Calculating the odds, over 16% of Sea Titans will still SDC at 18 years old, for example.

I imagine that female Sea Titans for the most part wait until they become MDC to reproduce, it doesn't really make sense to take up the risks of injury that come with motherhood when you can so easily skirt them in a few years. Plus, if you're going to live centuries, what's the rush?

keir451 · Unread post by **keir451** » Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:25 am

First I'd like to speak to the relative lecherousness of Naval personnel: Having actually been U.S. Navy I can say that we're not ALL lecherous, or at least no more lecherous than the average male/female.

Second: The New Navy is a rather closed society, while they do have political and slight military relations with Tritonia, there really aren't any major ports of call for the New Navy ships to visit (unlike today) so most Sea Titan carnal activities would probably be limited to the New Navy's home ports.

Third: It is actually stated in the Underseas book that Sea Titans ARE actually held in high regard as potential mates. (IIRC it actually read "preferred"). Also the New Navy provides a "Junior Navy" program wherein kids are inculcated into the Navy way of life from an early age through exposure, education, physical training, and their surrounding environment. As pretty much EVERYTHING the civilians do supports the New Navy (they've no where else to go, right?).
While it is possible that a Sea Titan could get laid and knock up a woman while on the mainland, I would expect him to realize the potential security breach that represents and make arrangements for her to picked up and brought back to one of the Navy facilities with her child, in case of his death, and the mother and child would live out the rest of their days there. Most likely he just doesn't get his rocks off AT ALL while he's out on a mission as it's possible that he/she already has a "steady" gal/guy at home (something I can see the New Navy "encouraging" very much, especially as it's been joked that "If the military WANTED you to have a wife we'd have ASSIGNED you one!").
From the woman's standpoint (for those of you who might argue she'd vehemently disagree with the idea) she gets some of the BEST medical care in the WORLD, possibly even survivor's benefits (especially if they were legally married), and a SAFE place to raise her child. As for the child, well, he/she might wind up joining the New Navy (there would be A LOT of subtle encouragement over the childhood years) and by now they've long since learned how to deal with rebellious Sea Titan teens, especially considering that Sea Titans get tougher as they get older, and a 100 - 200 yr. old Marine Gunnery Sgt. or Navy SEAL is NOT someone a newly minted Sea Titan stands even the remotest chance against.
On further reflection I can see the New Navy actually encouraging the inclusion of "fresh blood" or new genetics to help strengthen the existing population's gene pool so it might not be totally unusual for a sailor or Marine to find a wife outside of the New Navy and "bring her home to meet the parents", so one could run an adventure based upon the PC's trying to track down a hometown cutie who went missing "a few days ago" and eventually trace her to one of the coasts where her trail disappears entirely.

Brayon · Unread post by **Brayon** » Sat Oct 24, 2015 12:52 pm

Tor wrote:I guess it would fulfill a useful role for lesbians who want to be mothers or homosexual male sea titans who want to help out.

So, Reproductive services for a Segment of the Population that is less than 2%, if that. (In Real World, USA, the total population of Homosexuals is 1.8% according to CDCC Statistics.) Otherwise, I do not see the New Navy keeping vials of potential New Sea Titan kids, laying around for anyone to just take. Imagine if that gets into the hands of someone else? Like a CS spy, found some, & took it back to Chi-Town.

Also, there has been studies, & real world proof, of Gays/Lesbians having kids with Hetero Partners. Either as Cover for being deep in the closet, or just wanting to have kids, etc. So, it's not like they need a bank to store Eggs, & Sperm.

Tor wrote:Since the STs are slightly more beautiful than the average human (not to mention stronger, more agile, faster, enduring) I would initially think that they would have an easier time than normal finding a mundane human partner.

It's stated as such in the New Navy Text. Sea Titans are the Preffered Partner, & highly respected.

Tor wrote:That said... I begin to wonder about the fabric of a mixed society in the New Navy.

Why is that? New Navy Canon states there are no issues.

Tor wrote:I mean... an adult sea titan is immune to harm from basic weaponry, heals like crazy, and can kill you in a single punch. Wouldn't it be kind of terrifying to socialize with them or be in a relationship with them?

Might be to a Mainlander, but to New Navy Society, no. Canon states that Sea Titans are raised to respect Normal people, & no issues have happen in over 200 years. They must be doing something right to have over 2000 Sea Titans running around New Navy.

Tor wrote:Mixing would certainly happen, but it bears consideration that it might be less often than we might initially think based purely on this fear factor.

The use of a bank would be one way to bypass this: you wouldn't actually have to interact in private with one of those scary sea titans, but could still give birth to one.

Again, this is not supported by Canon text. No Issues, or Fear exists in the New Navy Society. They are actively sought out for Partnerships.

Tor wrote:The dangers of breeding with a sea titan would not exist until they transformed during puberty though. Since they don't turn MDC until 14-19 years old (average 16.5), this means there are a number of SDC teens carrying Sea Titan DNA who could be used to breed with. Calculating the odds, over 16% of Sea Titans will still SDC at 18 years old, for example.

While true, I doubt the New Navy training program in the New Navy Society would allow such a thing.

Tor wrote:I imagine that female Sea Titans for the most part wait until they become MDC to reproduce, it doesn't really make sense to take up the risks of injury that come with motherhood when you can so easily skirt them in a few years. Plus, if you're going to live centuries, what's the rush?

This, I could support the wait, because, you have a long time, but what complications are there for Normals? New Navy has better medical facilities than 98% of the rest of the world. Their society is built on the Foundation of 2098 Technology, which would be Ideal to start families, & prevent complications. I dare say, average old age for Normals, in 150+ years, as it was at the time of the Cataclysm. They still have the medical tech to sustain it.

Hotrod · Unread post by **Hotrod** » Sat Oct 24, 2015 4:38 pm

If the New Navy really wanted to increase their Sea Titan population with an aggressive breeding program, they would be 80% or more Sea Titans by now. They've had 200 years, and there are only a couple thousand of them out of the 800,000 people in the New Navy. Eugenics is not how they roll

keir451 · Unread post by **keir451** » Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:57 pm

Hotrod wrote:If the New Navy really wanted to increase their Sea Titan population with an aggressive breeding program, they would be 80% or more Sea Titans by now. They've had 200 years, and there are only a couple thousand of them out of the 800,000 people in the New Navy. Eugenics is not how they roll

No argument there. Though since Sea Titans are preferred as mates, natural selection will eventually do it for them.

keir451 · Unread post by **keir451** » Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:01 pm

Brayon wrote:
Tor wrote:I guess it would fulfill a useful role for lesbians who want to be mothers or homosexual male sea titans who want to help out.

So, Reproductive services for a Segment of the Population that is less than 2%, if that. (In Real World, USA, the total population of Homosexuals is 1.8% according to CDCC Statistics.) Otherwise, I do not see the New Navy keeping vials of potential New Sea Titan kids, laying around for anyone to just take. Imagine if that gets into the hands of someone else? Like a CS spy, found some, & took it back to Chi-Town.

Also, there has been studies, & real world proof, of Gays/Lesbians having kids with Hetero Partners. Either as Cover for being deep in the closet, or just wanting to have kids, etc. So, it's not like they need a bank to store Eggs, & Sperm.

Tor wrote:Since the STs are slightly more beautiful than the average human (not to mention stronger, more agile, faster, enduring) I would initially think that they would have an easier time than normal finding a mundane human partner.

It's stated as such in the New Navy Text. Sea Titans are the Preffered Partner, & highly respected.

Tor wrote:That said... I begin to wonder about the fabric of a mixed society in the New Navy.

Why is that? New Navy Canon states there are no issues.

Tor wrote:I mean... an adult sea titan is immune to harm from basic weaponry, heals like crazy, and can kill you in a single punch. Wouldn't it be kind of terrifying to socialize with them or be in a relationship with them?

Might be to a Mainlander, but to New Navy Society, no. Canon states that Sea Titans are raised to respect Normal people, & no issues have happen in over 200 years. They must be doing something right to have over 2000 Sea Titans running around New Navy.

Tor wrote:Mixing would certainly happen, but it bears consideration that it might be less often than we might initially think based purely on this fear factor.

The use of a bank would be one way to bypass this: you wouldn't actually have to interact in private with one of those scary sea titans, but could still give birth to one.

Again, this is not supported by Canon text. No Issues, or Fear exists in the New Navy Society. They are actively sought out for Partnerships.

Tor wrote:The dangers of breeding with a sea titan would not exist until they transformed during puberty though. Since they don't turn MDC until 14-19 years old (average 16.5), this means there are a number of SDC teens carrying Sea Titan DNA who could be used to breed with. Calculating the odds, over 16% of Sea Titans will still SDC at 18 years old, for example.

While true, I doubt the New Navy training program in the New Navy Society would allow such a thing.

Tor wrote:I imagine that female Sea Titans for the most part wait until they become MDC to reproduce, it doesn't really make sense to take up the risks of injury that come with motherhood when you can so easily skirt them in a few years. Plus, if you're going to live centuries, what's the rush?

This, I could support the wait, because, you have a long time, but what complications are there for Normals? New Navy has better medical facilities than 98% of the rest of the world. Their society is built on the Foundation of 2098 Technology, which would be Ideal to start families, & prevent complications. I dare say, average old age for Normals, in 150+ years, as it was at the time of the Cataclysm. They still have the medical tech to sustain it.

The big thing he's missing is that Sea Titans grow up as normal kids so they would still have all the same emotional connections with family and friends that anyone else does thus there is no "mixed" population.

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:48 am

keir451 wrote:First I'd like to speak to the relative lecherousness of Naval personnel: Having actually been U.S. Navy I can say that we're not ALL lecherous, or at least no more lecherous than the average male/female.

Nothing makes you hornier than a post-post-apocalyptic earth full of invisible Devilkins and Cthulu Tentacles.

keir451 wrote:Third: It is actually stated in the Underseas book that Sea Titans ARE actually held in high regard as potential mates. (IIRC it actually read "preferred").

By educated humans of the New Navy or all humans on earth in general? Specifically Mature MDC ones?

keir451 wrote:Also the New Navy provides a "Junior Navy" program wherein kids are inculcated into the Navy way of life from an early age through exposure, education, physical training, and their surrounding environment. As pretty much EVERYTHING the civilians do supports the New Navy (they've no where else to go, right?).

Easy enough if the mother gives birth within the New Navy. Course even then, nobody's guaranteed to like or stay in a program.

keir451 wrote:While it is possible that a Sea Titan could get laid and knock up a woman while on the mainland, I would expect him to realize the potential security breach that represents and make arrangements for her to picked up and brought back to one of the Navy facilities with her child, in case of his death, and the mother and child would live out the rest of their days there.

I fail to see how having an uncared for child is a security breach. It's not like the kid is going to telepathically absorb military secrets from you and share them with the enemy.

keir451 wrote:Most likely he just doesn't get his rocks off AT ALL while he's out on a mission as it's possible that he/she already has a "steady" gal/guy at home (something I can see the New Navy "encouraging" very much, especially as it's been joked that "If the military WANTED you to have a wife we'd have ASSIGNED you one!").

I see no reason to assume that the New Navy's culture is one of monoamorousness. Social trends have changed a great deal with time, they could be very different by the time of the Golden Age or the centuries since.

keir451 wrote:From the woman's standpoint (for those of you who might argue she'd vehemently disagree with the idea) she gets some of the BEST medical care in the WORLD, possibly even survivor's benefits (especially if they were legally married), and a SAFE place to raise her child.

Does the New Navy accept every single pregnant woman they come across into their care? How would they even know if the child came from a male Sea Titan?

keir451 wrote:On further reflection I can see the New Navy actually encouraging the inclusion of "fresh blood" or new genetics to help strengthen the existing population's gene pool so it might not be totally unusual for a sailor or Marine to find a wife outside of the New Navy and "bring her home to meet the parents", so one could run an adventure based upon the PC's trying to track down a hometown cutie who went missing "a few days ago" and eventually trace her to one of the coasts where her trail disappears entirely.

Conversely: what if they feared diluting the Sea Titan DNA and limited the introduction of new genes? It doesn't appear to be recessive so far, but why test fate?

In terms of resource use, it makes more sense on the surface to use SDC females to birth new Sea Titans rather than MDC females who can be better put to work in dangerous positions. That said, the medical expenses of caring for an SDC female are probably much higher than that of caring for an MDC one.

Brayon wrote:So, Reproductive services for a Segment of the Population that is less than 2%, if that. (In Real World, USA, the total population of Homosexuals is 1.8% according to CDCC Statistics.)

Not exclusively for them, whatever the percentage might be at this century in Rifts Earth, just pointing out a useful role.

Even if you are heterosexual it doesn't necessarily mean you'll find a person who want to be in a relationship with in the New Navy who you also want to reproduce with. They might well have divided companionship/genetic-preference into separate fields.

Brayon wrote:Otherwise, I do not see the New Navy keeping vials of potential New Sea Titan kids, laying around for anyone to just take. Imagine if that gets into the hands of someone else? Like a CS spy, found some, & took it back to Chi-Town.

What's the problem with that? The CS are fellow human American patriots! Underseas 109 says Nemo and Fleet Command are considering offering their services to the Coalition States, they're just hesitant because they think the CS would be suspicious of them. So instead they assist the CS in secret. They protect them. They are benevolent towards the CS.

Brayon wrote:there has been studies, & real world proof, of Gays/Lesbians having kids with Hetero Partners. Either as Cover for being deep in the closet, or just wanting to have kids, etc. So, it's not like they need a bank to store Eggs, & Sperm.

It's obviously not necessary, but it could be preferably if there was tolerence for these lifestyles.

This is a subject not much touched upon as best I can recall but the lack of mention of any bias makes me think that it isn't a significant factor.

Brayon wrote:It's stated as such in the New Navy Text. Sea Titans are the Preffered Partner, & highly respected.

Underseas 113 says "highly respected by all (and sometimes feared)" so it's the 'fear' aspect which makes me think that even if you'd like to have children with a Sea Titan, you might prefer to do so indirectly without exposing your vulnerable SDC flesh in private to their supernatural MD-inflicting physical strength.

They are not preferred partners, they are preferred "spouses", since that probably comes with a lot of benefits. Spouses get recognition and unlike a casual relationship, it would be harder to sweep things under the rug if you got spattered with a MD punch, since the wedding would make you a more memorable absence.

Being preferred for marriage due to procreative advantages doesn't necessarily mean the SDC spouse will want to have in-person relations though, they might still prefer to procreate via test tube.

They develope "relatively" normal relationships, so there's still something off about them. You have normals who resent them as 'super'. Page 107 mentions some are greatly tense and paranoid of them being monsters. That's just for basic coexistence, think how basic fears are amplified in intimate situations, whether it's yourself or your family considered as breeding with these supernaturals.

Brayon wrote:New Navy Canon states there are no issues.

Where? Relatively normal does not mean no issues. They can be normal early in life because they don't gain the SNPS/regeneration/MDC/age-stopping until later on.

Brayon wrote:
Tor wrote:I mean... an adult sea titan is immune to harm from basic weaponry, heals like crazy, and can kill you in a single punch. Wouldn't it be kind of terrifying to socialize with them or be in a relationship with them?

Might be to a Mainlander, but to New Navy Society, no. Canon states that Sea Titans are raised to respect Normal people, & no issues have happen in over 200 years.

Page 113 mentions they are taught about responsibility and not to abuse the weak. We're told most take that to heart. That could mean as little as 51%. There could be a significant number who ignore these lessons. Even if 100% abided by them, we have no guarantees that the normal people believe this, as they have no omniscient knowledge of all Sea Titans' private behaviors.

Where does it mention no issues have happened in over 200 years?

Brayon wrote:They must be doing something right to have over 2000 Sea Titans running around New Navy.

I'm a bit unclear on the original numbers (we're told "Nemo and a team of 24", 2 died, 22 remaining. Perhaps "Nemo leading a team of 24" was meant?).

Let's say for simplicity we say that there are 100x as many Sea Titans as there originally were. This roughly matches the 2000 in the New Navy plus "perhaps an additional 2 or 3 hundred" bit. It that a lot for 200 years?

If each Sea Titan chose a single non-Titan to reproduce with ONCE in their entire life, at age 20, those numbers would double 5x a century. 22 x 1024 (2^10) would easily allow for over 10x as many Sea Titans as there actually are. So I would interpret the lower number to mean that no, SDC humans aren't necessarily particularly enthusiastic about mating with them, even if they are popular spouses.

Brayon wrote:this is not supported by Canon text. No Issues, or Fear exists in the New Navy Society. They are actively sought out for Partnerships.

"Very popular spouses" doesn't mean they're very popular partners, we don't know how common marriage is.

Awaiting your source for 'no issues' and 'no fear' because I have cited mention of fear, resentment, envy, and paranoia.

Brayon wrote:I doubt the New Navy training program in the New Navy Society would allow such a thing.

Why? In terms of military strategy it would be an advantage to pump out as many Sea Titans as possible, and letting males sow their oats as soon as they are fertile would be the quickest way to do this. I can only see them preventing pregnancy in female Sea Titans until they become MDC to avoid the threat to life that pregnancy would create during their SDC stage (plus how it could interfere with training).

Brayon wrote:what complications are there for Normals? New Navy has better medical facilities than 98% of the rest of the world. Their society is built on the Foundation of 2098 Technology, which would be Ideal to start families, & prevent complications. I dare say, average old age for Normals, in 150+ years, as it was at the time of the Cataclysm. They still have the medical tech to sustain it.

In spite of advanced tech, resources or personnel could be in short supply.

Hotrod wrote:Eugenics is not how they roll

Or at least, not all of them

The small number of Sea Titans actually makes it seem like they are discriminated against in partner selection. Sure, you might marry a hunky MDC husband as a status symbol, but perhaps while he's out risking his life on the front lines you actually get impregnated by his SDC neighbour, someone who can't crush you in an instant.

Sea Titans who don't join the New Navy are by default looked upon as cowards/misantrophes/sissies/unreliable unless they do something to distinguish themselves. Does that apply to normal humans? It seems like they are viewed as tools of humanity who have to put their own needs second, something normal humans may not be expected to do.

keir451 wrote:No argument there. Though since Sea Titans are preferred as mates, natural selection will eventually do it for them.

Preferred as spouses, not mates. Although inheriting Sea Titan DNA is what makes them popular spouses, it may simply be that mystique that leads to the preference, not the actual desire to have their kid or even mate with them.

Children can bloom as late as 20 years old (per 113, the dice roll on 114 only allows 19 as highest) so a mother could enjoy 2 decades of "mother of a Sea Titan" social status if she were wed to a Sea Titan, even if she cheated on him and her children belonged to a non-Titan. DNA testing could possibly avoid that, but we don't know if the New Navy would want to expend resources on that, or if a Sea Titan's pride would allow them to openly question that possibility.

keir451 wrote:The big thing he's missing is that Sea Titans grow up as normal kids so they would still have all the same emotional connections with family and friends that anyone else does thus there is no "mixed" population.

Like with the X-Men?

keir451 · Unread post by **keir451** » Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:23 pm

Tor wrote:Nothing makes you hornier than a post-post-apocalyptic earth full of invisible Devilkins and Cthulu Tentacles.

Horniness is part of life, the difference is one of self control, which the large majority of military/Naval personnel have. Of course it is possible that the New Navy has "official relief" (read: legal prostitutes) stations wherein sailors can go to get their rocks off if they need to. It had been considered by the U.S. Military at one point in the past but discarded, however the New Navy could have USO stations with young, attractive women, music, drinking and dancing (much like they did in some places during and after WW II) for R&R when the troops come home.

Tor wrote:By educated humans of the New Navy or all humans on earth in general? Specifically Mature MDC ones?

Considering the New Navy is a closed society, then, by process of elimination it means New Navy people.

Tor wrote:Easy enough if the mother gives birth within the New Navy. Course even then, nobody's guaranteed to like or stay in a program.

And where else can they go? The New Navy is based in the Pacific, they have VERY limited contact with Tritonia, and none with the CS or other groups. Even if a kid is not in the Junior Navy, there are other paths to walk in the New Navy areas, they still need mechanics, doctors, dentists, nurses, teachers, etc.

Tor wrote:I fail to see how having an uncared for child is a security breach. It's not like the kid is going to telepathically absorb military secrets from you and share them with the enemy.

A Sea Titan child represents a paradigm shift in the power levels, imagine if Dr. Desmond Bradford at Lone Star got his hands on Sea Titan DNA? Or Splynncryth? Sea Titans are a security risk, not because of their military knowledge but because their abilities are passed on to their children without fail. They give the New Navy a long term advantage as they can have people who have centuries of combat experience and knowledge. Since the Navy has the lock on this gift, they're going to make very sure that no one else has it.

Tor wrote:I see no reason to assume that the New Navy's culture is one of monoamorousness. Social trends have changed a great deal with time, they could be very different by the time of the Golden Age or the centuries since.

It is merely the most likely scenario, as they are American in culture, they would follow those standards. Even as much as American culture has changed in the past 200 yrs. the majority of the populace practices monogamy, not because it is "correct" but because that's the way we were raised. While nothing is specifically said about whether or not monogamy is still practiced in 2098, it is probable that monogamy still exists because the parents of those who came before 2098 most likely raised their kids that way.

Tor wrote:Does the New Navy accept every single pregnant woman they come across into their care? How would they even know if the child came from a male Sea Titan?

If you spent enough time in an area to fall in love with a woman (assuming hetero here) and you're certain that she had no other partners then the likely hood of the child being yours is at least 90%. I would also assume the New Navy is at least as competent, most likely more so, at determining the parentage of a child via DNA analysis. I don't see the Rifts era as one that promotes promiscuity as the potential partners in a local area are fairly limited. I don't think the Navy accepts EVERY pregnant woman they come across, but IF the child is of Sea Titan parentage then they WOULD want to know.

Tor wrote:Conversely: what if they feared diluting the Sea Titan DNA and limited the introduction of new genes? It doesn't appear to be recessive so far, but why test fate?

In terms of resource use, it makes more sense on the surface to use SDC females to birth new Sea Titans rather than MDC females who can be better put to work in dangerous positions. That said, the medical expenses of caring for an SDC female are probably much higher than that of caring for an MDC one.

Dilute it how? The Sea Titan abilities are proven to be consistently passed down from parent to child, the New Navy has had the better part of 200 yrs. to see if the abilities can be diluted, if it hasn't happened yet then it's not likely to happen at all.
Considering that Sea Titans only number 2,000 out of 800,000 then, on average, most of their partners are going to be SDC regardless of sexual orientation.

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:58 pm

keir451 wrote:Horniness is part of life, the difference is one of self control, which the large majority of military/Naval personnel have.

Only if they have reason to curb it though, and if you're a pinnacle of masculinity and all the ladies are after you and it's the post-Post-Apocalypse and earth needs more MDC humans to battle evil, with Wine and Bread & Milk destined to grow cheap seems like a win for all.

keir451 wrote:New Navy could have USO stations with young, attractive women, music, drinking and dancing (much like they did in some places during and after WW II) for R&R when the troops come home.

They seem like they'd have little to fear from STDs so they'd be less inclined to wrap up, and the stellar reputation of the NN is probably going to lead to more of the brothel workers trying to have their kids.

keir451 wrote:by process of elimination it means New Navy people.

Is basically my point, only they are fully aware of what good guys they're trained to be.

keir451 wrote:where else can they go? The New Navy is based in the Pacific, they have VERY limited contact with Tritonia, and none with the CS or other groups. Even if a kid is not in the Junior Navy, there are other paths to walk in the New Navy areas, they still need mechanics, doctors, dentists, nurses, teachers, etc.

The NGR, per WB31p13

keir451 wrote:A Sea Titan child represents a paradigm shift in the power levels, imagine if Dr. Desmond Bradford at Lone Star got his hands on Sea Titan DNA?

Nemo and the other higher ups in the New Navy want to help the CS so they'd probably be fine with this.

keir451 wrote:Or Splynncryth?

If he wants to risk breeding Sea Titan slaves, they'd probably think he's brewing his own demise, the perfect rebellion.

keir451 wrote:Sea Titans are a security risk, not because of their military knowledge but because their abilities are passed on to their children without fail. They give the New Navy a long term advantage as they can have people who have centuries of combat experience and knowledge. Since the Navy has the lock on this gift, they're going to make very sure that no one else has it.

If they were concerned about this I don't think they'd allow any Sea Titans to go free, since they have, monopolizing the genes doesn't seem to be a huge concern.

keir451 wrote:It is merely the most likely scenario, as they are American in culture, they would follow those standards. Even as much as American culture has changed in the past 200 yrs. the majority of the populace practices monogamy, not because it is "correct" but because that's the way we were raised. While nothing is specifically said about whether or not monogamy is still practiced in 2098, it is probable that monogamy still exists because the parents of those who came before 2098 most likely raised their kids that way.

I'm not sure the fertile generation capable of siring new children at present would necessarily teach this, and I think it will decline as TV and internet continue to change culture at a faster speed than before.

keir451 wrote:If you spent enough time in an area to fall in love with a woman (assuming hetero here) and you're certain that she had no other partners then the likely hood of the child being yours is at least 90%.

Not sure how you got that math, but it's doubtful someone in the NN spends enough time in an area (not even the Ticonderoga itself) to surveil a partner to be rationally certain that they were the only partner.

keir451 wrote:I would also assume the New Navy is at least as competent, most likely more so, at determining the parentage of a child via DNA analysis.

I'm sure they have access to the tech: but do they want to spend the resources on doing it?

keir451 wrote:I don't see the Rifts era as one that promotes promiscuity as the potential partners in a local area are fairly limited. I don't think the Navy accepts EVERY pregnant woman they come across, but IF the child is of Sea Titan parentage then they WOULD want to know.

This is a good point, it would suck to spend all that money on special training for someone from 4 to 19 only for them to turn out to be a dud.

Potentially good background story though. For all the people playing Sea Titans out there, who plays someone whose dad cuckolded a Sea Titan?

keir451 wrote:Dilute it how? The Sea Titan abilities are proven to be consistently passed down from parent to child, the New Navy has had the better part of 200 yrs. to see if the abilities can be diluted, if it hasn't happened yet then it's not likely to happen at all.
Considering that Sea Titans only number 2,000 out of 800,000 then, on average, most of their partners are going to be SDC regardless of sexual orientation.

The average partner can't be calculated simply because of numerical availability due to the fear rational people would have of Sea Titans.

keir451 · Unread post by **keir451** » Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:28 pm

Initially, as in right after the apocalypse, there was probably a large upsurge of pregnancies as people got down to the business of keeping themselves alive (which would include having babies). So keeping condoms around probably wasn't big on their list. With Sea Titans, I'm not there ARE condoms that can contain their "super sperm", and I don't think it's that they're "pinnacles of masculinity", just that many women seem to prefer them as partners.

Tor wrote:They seem like they'd have little to fear from STDs so they'd be less inclined to wrap up, and the stellar reputation of the NN is probably going to lead to more of the brothel workers trying to have their kids.

I figure STDs were probably taken care of with the advent of widespread genetic engineering during the "Golden Age", though they may have resurfaced due to transdimensional humans who Do have those diseases and no effective medicine during the Dark Ages. Though I agree that Sea Titans would probably be immune as their immune systems would probably crush the disease right of the bat.

Tor wrote:The NGR, per WB31p13

Yes, well I found that book to be rather sketchy, but it IS "official" so per this discussion I CAN'T dismiss it. I would say that even with the events of WB 31 the New Navy still maintains it's separation and most likely does not have an actual presence within the NGR (going by Nemo's write up in Underseas) as that would tip off too many people as to their existence. So, no port calls, no liberty, no leave granted, thus no New Navy personnel within the bounds of the NGR, unless they are from ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence). So the chances of some random Sea Titan knocking up some random NGR girl is nil.

Tor wrote:Nemo and the other higher ups in the New Navy want to help the CS so they'd probably be fine with this.

I don't quite agree with that idea. It seems to me that Nemo is keeping his cards very close to his chest, he'll help humans in need on the high seas, but will not (with the aforementioned sketchy involvement) commit ground troops and risk exposing his actual existence.

Tor wrote:If they were concerned about this I don't think they'd allow any Sea Titans to go free, since they have, monopolizing the genes doesn't seem to be a huge concern.

Considering there's, currently, only ONE Sea Titan at large roaming the Earth the chances of him knocking up some random girl are even less as he's not likely to spend much time in one place, making a near zero risk for discovery, especially as he's one of the ORIGINAL group of Sea Titans, he's probably smart enough to keep it in his pants.

Tor wrote:I'm not sure the fertile generation capable of siring new children at present would necessarily teach this, and I think it will decline as TV and internet continue to change culture at a faster speed than before.

Too soon to tell for certain, so I stick with the most probable answer based upon current trends, which show no sign of suddenly changing to polygamy.

Tor wrote:I'm sure they have access to the tech: but do they want to spend the resources on doing it?

I see no reason why they wouldn't. They come from a time of widely available genetic engineering and manipulation, so DNA testing would be common place, especially within the Navy as their tech would be above what's available to civilians. Also considering the number of people they started with I'd day they'd have kept careful track of who married whom and gave birth to which kids. Especially considering the small number of original Sea Titans it'd be easy to figure out who fathered/ gave birth to whom and every current Sea Titan (whether active duty or not) would have been DNA tested at birth to ensure that the parentage is correct as well as to keep track of the Sea Titan births.

Library Ogre · Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:11 pm

On the other hand, Sea Titans might run into the "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex" problem in mating with normal humans. It's possible, sure, and you avoid some of the mentioned problems during gestation, but impregnating a normal human woman when you're a male Sea Titan may be somewhat dangerous.

Nightmask · Unread post by **Nightmask** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 3:33 pm

Mark Hall wrote:On the other hand, Sea Titans might run into the "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex" problem in mating with normal humans. It's possible, sure, and you avoid some of the mentioned problems during gestation, but impregnating a normal human woman when you're a male Sea Titan may be somewhat dangerous.

Given there's nothing in the books to even remotely imply that (certainly you wouldn't find one a desirable mate if sex was dangerous or lethal with one) there's no reason to think a Sea Titan would have any problems having sex with non-MDC humans.

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:37 pm

They wouldn't have problems unless they're inclined to do motions with the equivalent force of a full-strength punch. If their PS was high enough that even restrained punches did MD then that's when I think you'd begin to experience problems, and they don't easily get that high.

The problem is moreso that I think people wouldn't know they have that level of restraint.

no port calls, no liberty, no leave granted, thus no New Navy personnel within the bounds of the NGR, unless they are from ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence). So the chances of some random Sea Titan knocking up some random NGR girl is nil.

While they may not want to dock the Ticonderoga often to protect its position I don't see why they would prevent their officers from visiting land on smaller craft.

he'll help humans in need on the high seas, but will not (with the aforementioned sketchy involvement) commit ground troops and risk exposing his actual existence. So, no port calls, no liberty, no leave granted, thus no New Navy personnel within the bounds of the NGR, unless they are from ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence). So the chances of some random Sea Titan knocking up some random NGR girl is nil.

Are they really that secretive?

there's, currently, only ONE Sea Titan at large roaming the Earth

Where are you getting the idea that the original who left mentioned on 114 is the only roamer? Underseas 113 says 15% have left the New Navy and some have scattered to the 4 corners of the world (and even other dimensions). Seems obvious that "other" rather than "others" was a typo since it goes on to refer to a plural "Titans" and talk about bands of 2-6.

Also considering the number of people they started with I'd day they'd have kept careful track of who married whom and gave birth to which kids.

Why bother? What purpose would it serve? It's not like they're controlling the spread of the gene since they allow Sea Titans to leave an explore the world/Megaverse.

keir451 · Unread post by **keir451** » Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:00 pm

Tor wrote:They wouldn't have problems unless they're inclined to do motions with the equivalent force of a full-strength punch. If their PS was high enough that even restrained punches did MD then that's when I think you'd begin to experience problems, and they don't easily get that high.

The problem is moreso that I think people wouldn't know they have that level of restraint.

no port calls, no liberty, no leave granted, thus no New Navy personnel within the bounds of the NGR, unless they are from ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence). So the chances of some random Sea Titan knocking up some random NGR girl is nil.

While they may not want to dock the Ticonderoga often to protect its position I don't see why they would prevent their officers from visiting land on smaller craft.

he'll help humans in need on the high seas, but will not (with the aforementioned sketchy involvement) commit ground troops and risk exposing his actual existence. So, no port calls, no liberty, no leave granted, thus no New Navy personnel within the bounds of the NGR, unless they are from ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence). So the chances of some random Sea Titan knocking up some random NGR girl is nil.
Are they really that secretive?

there's, currently, only ONE Sea Titan at large roaming the Earth

Where are you getting the idea that the original who left mentioned on 114 is the only roamer? Underseas 113 says 15% have left the New Navy and some have scattered to the 4 corners of the world (and even other dimensions). Seems obvious that "other" rather than "others" was a typo since it goes on to refer to a plural "Titans" and talk about bands of 2-6.

Also considering the number of people they started with I'd day they'd have kept careful track of who married whom and gave birth to which kids.
Why bother? What purpose would it serve? It's not like they're controlling the spread of the gene since they allow Sea Titans to leave an explore the world/Megaverse.

Considering Sea Titans look like normal humans there's no reason for anyone to suspect they're anything else until their strength is displayed, therefore the issue of restraint is a non-issue.

Unless there is an actual need for the officers to leave the ship while in port, they're not going to. So if the officers aren't leaving the ship then the enlisted aren't either. Supplies can be replenished underway without having to put into a port, and even if they do put into port at Tritonia, the Captain of the ship can disallow the crew shore leave if he so desires. So there's no guarantee that a crew man would be in a position to be getting laid.
Are they that secretive? YES. Nemo's very description is one of a man who doesn't want the world (and especially the CS) to know any real info, he'll use PC's to do jobs for him without letting them in on who hired them.
"pg. 109, Foreign Relations: The New Navy does not advertise its presence to the outside world." Sounds pretty secretive to me, especially as the only place they dock at besides their own ports is Tritonia.
"Less than 12% of Sea Titans never join the Navy .... " a pretty small number considering there are only around 2,000 (plus an additional two to three hundred). Even that, admittedly 15%, is still only a few hundred over all and they either stay with their own kind or mingle among other humans, D-bees, True Atlanteans, and supernatural creatures, thus making it even easier to hide what they are, as until they demonstrate their abilities or you're one who can detect psionics or the supernatural, you wouldn't know what they are just by looking at them and even if someone figured out that they were supernatural they wouldn't know everything about this person, only than they have "some" powers. If I were one of those Sea Titans and I had a kid that I knew would inherit my abilities I'd want him/her to be able to get the BEST education and training available and that's the New Navy.

Why bother? Because the original Sea Titans were few in number, plus they are keeping track of genetics for health reasons as well as for identification reasons. They already would have the equipment and capability as well as the means to secure the resources needed and it wouldn't take much work at all to compile a list of who married whom as every time a service member marries they have to submit a "change of status" form as well as list any dependents they have. This would be doubly so for any Sea Titans as the Navy would want to track their actions and, once they had children and it became obvious that the children inherited the parent's abilities and there were no genetic defects or deformities cropping up because of the change, to guide them along the path most beneficial to the New Navy, aka controlling them and turning them into a resource.

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Mon Nov 02, 2015 1:50 am

keir451 wrote:Considering Sea Titans look like normal humans there's no reason for anyone to suspect they're anything else until their strength is displayed, therefore the issue of restraint is a non-issue.

They are supernatural beings, so Psi-Stalkers and Dog Boys could make the distinction.

It also might become apparent from them being unphased by SDC attacks or accidents.

Plus word would tend to get out the more you were in a place. My guess is most people know who is who on the Ticonderoga.

keir451 wrote:Unless there is an actual need for the officers to leave the ship while in port, they're not going to. So if the officers aren't leaving the ship then the enlisted aren't either.

Although I can't recall recreation being explicitly described, I can't recall it being denied either.

keir451 wrote:Supplies can be replenished underway without having to put into a port, and even if they do put into port at Tritonia, the Captain of the ship can disallow the crew shore leave if he so desires. So there's no guarantee that a crew man would be in a position to be getting laid.

Wouldn't it make more sense to send your MDC operatives out at a port to bring in supplies personally rather than allow outsiders access to your ship to bring in the supplies?

keir451 wrote:Nemo's very description is one of a man who doesn't want the world (and especially the CS) to know any real info

No idea where you get this 'especially the CS' part. Page 96 actually specifies that Nemo-2 and his navy are distrustful of D-Bees, which complicates their relations with Tritonia. That doesn't sound like the attitude of someone who would single out the CS above all others as the one they want to remain secret from.

Page 109 just says they haven't initiated contact with the CS, and hints at Triax/NGR being a more likely immediate future ally.

keir451 wrote:"The New Navy does not advertise its presence to the outside world." Sounds pretty secretive to me

There's a difference between not advertising (ie not seeming needy) and say, punishing people for breaking some kind of unwritten secrecy policy.

keir451 wrote:the only place they dock at besides their own ports is Tritonia.

Does it explicitly state ONLY them, or are they just the only ones explicitly included?

keir451 wrote:"Less than 12% of Sea Titans never join the Navy .... " a pretty small number considering there are only around 2,000 (plus an additional two to three hundred). Even that, admittedly 15%, is still only a few hundred over all and they either stay with their own kind or mingle among other humans, D-bees, True Atlanteans, and supernatural creatures, thus making it even easier to hide what they are

The bit about 12/15 percent I brought up only because of your "only ONE Sea Titan at large roaming the Earth" claim.

I don't see how mingling with those types makes it easier to hide what they are. Unless they have appropriate abilities like a nega-psychic (not sure if that's open to them, if they're still human enough to be one) or (more likely) a psi-nullifier, they would broadcast as a supernatural being. Hanging out with dragons just means people might think you're a dragon. Then surprise, the human who didn't use birth control thinking they were just shagging a dragon turns out preggers.

keir451 wrote:you wouldn't know what they are just by looking at them and even if someone figured out that they were supernatural they wouldn't know everything about this person, only than they have "some" powers. If I were one of those Sea Titans and I had a kid that I knew would inherit my abilities I'd want him/her to be able to get the BEST education and training available and that's the New Navy.

Is it though? How do their OCCS compete with the NGR's or the CS's for example?

keir451 · Unread post by **keir451** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:50 pm

Tor wrote:They are supernatural beings, so Psi-Stalkers and Dog Boys could make the distinction.

Only if the Psi-stalkers or Dog Boys are in close enough to actually use their abilities to detect them, plus if you are one among many it can be even more difficult to detect you.

Tor wrote:It also might become apparent from them being unphased by SDC attacks or accidents.

If you’re wandering around with mercenaries, adventurers, D-Bees, True Atlanteans you’re likely wearing body armor even if you’re MDC as getting shot by MDC weapons still hurts and defeating SDC attacks can be passed off by said body armor or claiming psionics (which many Sea Titans do have).

Tor wrote:Plus word would tend to get out the more you were in a place. My guess is most people know who is who on the Ticonderoga.

How? Who is “most people”? If you’re talking about New Navy people then only Nemo-2, Fleet Command, the sailors and troops actually onboard the Ticonderoga and the immediate families and a few friends of said troops know who’s onboard the Ticonderoga. Such things aren’t exactly advertised within the Navy so as to protect the troops and their families (especially so since 9/11).

Tor wrote:Although I can't recall recreation being explicitly described, I can't recall it being denied either.

“Underseas™, P.108: Although the Ticonderoga actually has two movie theaters, a ballroom and several entertainment centers to provide relaxation for the 11,000+ crew and troops, the crew is expected to obey strict military law and order.” In the Navy when we put into port we are allowed what we call “liberty” where we can go ashore for a time, this is so ordered by the ships’ captain and can be dis-allowed if he/she chooses. Considering the Ticonderoga goes out for years at a time the crew will only get liberty when they get back to their home ports. Second Fleet is a carrier group that operates int the Pacific Ocean…” they, too, would only see liberty when they come back to their home ports for resupply or repairs. Third Fleet stays near the two bases so that crew would get home liberty most often. “Fourth Fleet goes on long-term expeditions, usually to distant parts of the world away from the Pacific Ocean.” So they , too, wiil only get liberty when they get back home, by then, they'll be able to take "leave" instead of just liberty

Tor wrote:Wouldn't it make more sense to send your MDC operatives out at a port to bring in supplies personally rather than allow outsiders access to your ship to bring in the supplies?

Sometimes when we are at sea we get supplies from other ships in our fleet, this is called “Underway Replenishment, or UNREP” and occurs between two Navy ships. Most likely each fleet carries enough supplies to last them the duration of their voyages. Should they need supplies from an unfamiliar port they will send Navy personnel via small boat or LCU (Landing Craft Unit) to pick up the supplies, as well as check the supplies to make sure everything is there and nothing unwanted has been added or (maybe) someone is trying to sneak aboard with the supplies and they'd probably be wearing body armor as well as being VERY heavily armed, also they could use common body armor types for this instead of Navy or Marine issue just to keep people guessing or unaware of the Navy's presence. In all honesty I figure the New Navy’s security to be along the lines of “Paranoid” to “Impregnable” from Mercenaries™, minus the magic defense, but possibly heavy on their own psionics, power armor or some robot vehicles (they do have a force of Glitterboys).

Tor wrote:No idea where you get this 'especially the CS' part. Page 96 actually specifies that Nemo-2 and his navy are distrustful of D-Bees, which complicates their relations with Tritonia. That doesn't sound like the attitude of someone who would single out the CS above all others as the one they want to remain secret from.

Yet they DO have a trade agreement with Tritonia, but NOT the CS.
They won’t ally with the CS as, according to their intelligence reports, the CS would demand that the New Navy turn over all their equipment and tech, plus after the events of the Tolkeen war and the CS actually using Auschwitz style death camps, the New Navy would be even LESS likely to want to ally with the CS.

Tor wrote:Page 109 just says they haven't initiated contact with the CS, and hints at Triax/NGR being a more likely immediate future ally.

True, though I don’t agree with Triax-2. In My Opinion, if the New Navy DID send aid, I think it would be in the form of an ’undercover, or non-overt’ operation, using locally acquired equipment to disguise themselves with instead of using standard New Navy issue gear so as to not disclose or reveal their true identity.

Tor wrote:There's a difference between not advertising (ie not seeming needy) and say, punishing people for breaking some kind of unwritten secrecy policy.

The New Navy isn’t being “needy” they just don’t want everyone and their brother to know who they are or where they are located, especially as they’ve made a lot of enemies. Also is it stated that though the cities of Refuge and Salvation have “started trading with other population centers the inhabitants keep the existence and location of the military bases a carefully guarded secret.” And while I’m sure many of the citizens know of Sea Titans and actively know people who are Sea Titans, I don’t see them as just saying “Oh, he/she is a Sea Titan.” As that would raise too many questions and potentially endanger them.

Tor wrote:The bit about 12/15 percent I brought up only because of your "only ONE Sea Titan at large roaming the Earth" claim.

I don't see how mingling with those types makes it easier to hide what they are. Unless they have appropriate abilities like a nega-psychic (not sure if that's open to them, if they're still human enough to be one) or (more likely) a psi-nullifier, they would broadcast as a supernatural being. Hanging out with dragons just means people might think you're a dragon. Then surprise, the human who didn't use birth control thinking they were just shagging a dragon turns out preggers.

It makes it easier to hide BECAUSE some of them are supernatural, Dog Boys and Psi-stalkers aren’t infallible and just because a Sea Titan is MDC doesn’t mean they aren’t wearing body armor or power armor. Also the vast majority of humans in Rifts Earth wouldn’t be “shagging a dragon” and would stay the hell away from them on principal (dragons being scary monsters and all). I can see that those few Sea Titans who have left Earth to explore the Megaverse may find someone “out there” to settle down with, but out there they’re just another “average Joe”, especially among people like Atlanteans who deal with the supernatural every day. Mercs and other adventuring groups wouldn’t give a care (unless one or more of them is rabidly anti-SN) and D-Bees are already on the CS’s *hit-list so another guy in armor isn’t going to trigger any alarms.

Tor wrote:Is it though? How do their OCCS compete with the NGR's or the CS's for example?

Their OCCs are comparable to CS or Triax OCCs, in some case the New Navy is even better than either group, they have “pre-Rifts submersibles, underwater travel and combat technology, and automated factories for the repair and building of pre0Rifts submarines, combat ships, amphibious power armor and assorted weapons.” Now I take into account that this was printed before Chaos Earth so I upgrade their medical tech to be equal to that of the CS and Triax, their cybernetics level would be very good, they just don’t use it to the same extent as the CS or NGR do. The US Navy has some of the best medical standards and practitioners in the world today so I see no reason for the New Navy to be any less capable especially with the level of advancements allowed for by 2098. The New Navy would certainly be aware of M.O.M and Juicer conversion tech as both technologies are of pre-Rifts origin, they just don’t use them.

drewkitty ~..~ · Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:10 am

If a Sea Titan was to be rifted to HU and NB how would you convert their MDC to fit that SDC setting?

Brayon · Unread post by **Brayon** » Sat Nov 07, 2015 12:11 pm

In the immortal words of Captain Jack Sparrow, "Sea Turtles, Mate." When it comes to Sea Titans as a whole, in dealing with relations outside of New Navy, the less the non-navy folks know, the better. With the smattering of different, & in some cases conflicting information in several sources books, I do find it odd the New Navy was completely left out of the 109 P.A. update in Aftermath. Would of help to clear up a few things. I do like keir451 summaries, & feel he's spot on when it comes to his ideas, & would run it as such in my game.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:If a Sea Titan was to be rifted to HU and NB how would you convert their MDC to fit that SDC setting?

For HU, I would covert them to a Mutant, with the Mega-Hero power category. Find comparable abilities for bonuses, such as Supernatural Strength, & Invulnerability. Similar for NB, use the HU tables for Supernatural Strength, & the Mega-Hero HP/SDC bonuses. Covert other powers as needed.