The Azverkan from Mindwerks Sourcebook

Ley Line walkers, Juicers, Coalition Troops, Samas, Tolkeen, & The Federation Of Magic. Come together here to discuss all things Rifts®.

Moderators: Immortals, Supreme Beings, Old Ones

User avatar
mercedogre
Dungeon Crawler
Posts: 323
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:54 am
Comment: I ******* hate the atmosphere of the conversations here on these forums
Location: Central Valley California

The Azverkan from Mindwerks Sourcebook

Unread post by mercedogre »

The Azverkan have 2D4x10 P.P.E but a resistance to magic, would that mean they are excluded from using and powering TW weapons? How about other magically imbued/rune weapons or Millennium Tree weapons?
You'll take my life but I'll take yours too
You'll fire your musket but I'll run you through
So when you're waiting for the next attack
You'd better stand there's no turning back
User avatar
Nekira Sudacne
Monk
Posts: 15488
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 7:22 pm
Comment: The Munchkin Fairy
Location: 2nd Degree Black Belt of Post Fu
Contact:

Re: The Azverkan from Mindwerks Sourcebook

Unread post by Nekira Sudacne »

mercedogre wrote:The Azverkan have 2D4x10 P.P.E but a resistance to magic, would that mean they are excluded from using and powering TW weapons?


No, lots of races have a resistance bonus or save vs. magic, dosn't stop them from volentarily choosing to use magic.

How about other magically imbued/rune weapons or Millennium Tree weapons?


Nothing at all stops any race from willingly using magic weapons, even if they are impervious. Even races who are explictly unable to ever use magic can still use magic items, with the exception of TW items as they will lack the PPE to power it.
Sometimes, you're like a beacon of light in the darkness, giving me some hope for humankind. ~ Killer Cyborg

You can have something done good, fast and cheap. If you want it done good and fast, it's not going to be cheap. If you want it done fast and cheap it won't be good. If you want something done good and cheap it won't be done fast. ~ Dark Brandon
User avatar
Tor
Palladin
Posts: 6975
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:37 pm
Comment: If you have something to say, back it up with thoughts and reasons. Simply posting to agree or disagree tends to be a waste.
Location: Pyramid

Re: The Azverkan from Mindwerks Sourcebook

Unread post by Tor »

The most suspicious thing about them on SB3p45 is that they are unable to become Cyber-Knights.

Yet they may acquire several biolnic implants (even two artificial limbs) so it's not about the cyber-armor...

SB3 came out before Sedition so I don't think it has anything to do with the cyber-armor being TW bionics (like Momano Headhunter) unless we speculate KS already had this in mind.

They have standard psionics same as humans and are not restricted from selecting psionic OCCs or adventurer OCCs like operator who might have unique amounts of it.

What does stand out to me though, is that Cyber-Knights had a unique ability to be able to have their PPE used to power techno-wizard devices.

This was rare amongst character classes who were not mages or psychics.

Could this ability to use PPE for TW devices perhaps be why the Azverkan could not become Cyber-Knights?
"1st edition? 2nd edition? It doesnt matter! Let's just talk" -Forums of the Megaverse
User avatar
eliakon
Palladin
Posts: 9093
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Contact:

Re: The Azverkan from Mindwerks Sourcebook

Unread post by eliakon »

How about its just that they are special snowflakes that can not become Cyberknights?
To not be able to use TW would take a special explicit statement that they are an exception to the normal rules governing TW devices, namely that any being with control over their PPE/ISP is able to use them. In the lack of such a statement I am forced to conclude that Psionic Azverkan can use TW devices just fine.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
User avatar
mercedogre
Dungeon Crawler
Posts: 323
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:54 am
Comment: I ******* hate the atmosphere of the conversations here on these forums
Location: Central Valley California

Re: The Azverkan from Mindwerks Sourcebook

Unread post by mercedogre »

Nekira Sudacne wrote:
mercedogre wrote:The Azverkan have 2D4x10 P.P.E but a resistance to magic, would that mean they are excluded from using and powering TW weapons?


No, lots of races have a resistance bonus or save vs. magic, dosn't stop them from volentarily choosing to use magic.

How about other magically imbued/rune weapons or Millennium Tree weapons?


Nothing at all stops any race from willingly using magic weapons, even if they are impervious. Even races who are explictly unable to ever use magic can still use magic items, with the exception of TW items as they will lack the PPE to power it.


That's what felt also, just wanted to make sure there wasn't something I missed
You'll take my life but I'll take yours too
You'll fire your musket but I'll run you through
So when you're waiting for the next attack
You'd better stand there's no turning back
User avatar
mercedogre
Dungeon Crawler
Posts: 323
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:54 am
Comment: I ******* hate the atmosphere of the conversations here on these forums
Location: Central Valley California

Re: The Azverkan from Mindwerks Sourcebook

Unread post by mercedogre »

Tor wrote:The most suspicious thing about them on SB3p45 is that they are unable to become Cyber-Knights.

Yet they may acquire several biolnic implants (even two artificial limbs) so it's not about the cyber-armor...

SB3 came out before Sedition so I don't think it has anything to do with the cyber-armor being TW bionics (like Momano Headhunter) unless we speculate KS already had this in mind.

They have standard psionics same as humans and are not restricted from selecting psionic OCCs or adventurer OCCs like operator who might have unique amounts of it.

What does stand out to me though, is that Cyber-Knights had a unique ability to be able to have their PPE used to power techno-wizard devices.

This was rare amongst character classes who were not mages or psychics.

Could this ability to use PPE for TW devices perhaps be why the Azverkan could not become Cyber-Knights?


The exclusion of the Cyber-Knight OCC is kinda weird, I would have thought they would make excellent C-K's
You'll take my life but I'll take yours too
You'll fire your musket but I'll run you through
So when you're waiting for the next attack
You'd better stand there's no turning back
User avatar
say652
Palladin
Posts: 6609
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:32 am
Comment: Avid Cyborg and Braka Braka enthusiast.
Location: 'Murica

Re: The Azverkan from Mindwerks Sourcebook

Unread post by say652 »

Psi warrior or Psi Slayer are options still.
User avatar
Tor
Palladin
Posts: 6975
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:37 pm
Comment: If you have something to say, back it up with thoughts and reasons. Simply posting to agree or disagree tends to be a waste.
Location: Pyramid

Re: The Azverkan from Mindwerks Sourcebook

Unread post by Tor »

I am prone to thinking Psi-Slayer is human-only unless otherwise indicated, such as with the Noli Bushman.

That said... if a race does say "same as humans" on top of "standard" would that mean they could take human-only classes?

I thought to check out what the Conversion Book said about some of the more popular races...

"basically same as humans" for Wolfen/Coyle/Kankoran/Elves/Goblins/

"same as humans" for Changelings/Dwarves

"about the same as humans" for Ogres/Algor/Cyclops/Jotan/Gigantes/Nimro/Titans

So it would be interesting if (due to lack of basically/about) the Azverkans/Changelings/Dwarves are a special case of selecting human-only classes while the others do not.
"1st edition? 2nd edition? It doesnt matter! Let's just talk" -Forums of the Megaverse
User avatar
eliakon
Palladin
Posts: 9093
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Contact:

Re: The Azverkan from Mindwerks Sourcebook

Unread post by eliakon »

If the class says its human only then its human only.....
I am pretty sure that the 'same as humans' thing means that they get to use the same roll for psionics table as humans.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
User avatar
Tor
Palladin
Posts: 6975
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:37 pm
Comment: If you have something to say, back it up with thoughts and reasons. Simply posting to agree or disagree tends to be a waste.
Location: Pyramid

Re: The Azverkan from Mindwerks Sourcebook

Unread post by Tor »

That sounds more like "basically the same" or "about the same" to me, not "same" :)
"1st edition? 2nd edition? It doesnt matter! Let's just talk" -Forums of the Megaverse
User avatar
eliakon
Palladin
Posts: 9093
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Contact:

Re: The Azverkan from Mindwerks Sourcebook

Unread post by eliakon »

Tor wrote:That sounds more like "basically the same" or "about the same" to me, not "same" :)

I would say it is the 'same' they can have the same psionic potential as a human (Minus of course anything that requires potential + race) So minor psi to Mind Melter and all the normal variations in between are available...
But if its a race locked one like say Psi Ghosts then that's not just 'same as a human' but needs an actual special snowflake exemption to have. Especially since this race that has 'same as human' already is explicitly not allowed several of the human races psionic classes (no Techno-Wizards, no Mystics, no Cyber Knights). Which suggests to me that you can be 'same' and not get every single class, just the same basic ranges.

(And yes, I am saying here that "basically the same" "about the same" "same" and all similar entries for game purposes have one shared meaning. They all mean "have the same general potential as humans so you can use the human generations methods so we don't have to publish specific charts for this race's percentage rolls, and every single allowed/disallowed psionic class." I emphatically do NOT think that "Same" means "this race is allowed to take any class humans can, including psionic classes that explicitly say that only humans can take them but we felt that such a huge exemption to the normal rules was trivial enough in this case that we just think it should be inferred from a slight grammatical difference in editing style between decades worth of books and not actually need to be called out.")
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
User avatar
Tor
Palladin
Posts: 6975
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:37 pm
Comment: If you have something to say, back it up with thoughts and reasons. Simply posting to agree or disagree tends to be a waste.
Location: Pyramid

Re: The Azverkan from Mindwerks Sourcebook

Unread post by Tor »

Race-lockedness seems to get flexible over time, like with the Psi-Slayer, I don't see why it would be different with Psi-Ghosts.

You can opt to have Psi-Ghost powers with that tech OCC in Rifts Australia which I don't think was human-locked. Humans aren't the only race who can get the intangibility super-power so if a mutant of another race happened to have it, I figure they could learn the other stuff.

eliakon wrote: this race that has 'same as human' already is explicitly not allowed several of the human races psionic classes (no Techno-Wizards, no Mystics, no Cyber Knights)

Being psionically the same doesn't mean you're the same in mystical potential.

I think it's cool to note the difference in grammatic structure and what that may mean. Same is definitely stronger than about/base.
"1st edition? 2nd edition? It doesnt matter! Let's just talk" -Forums of the Megaverse
User avatar
Tinker Dragoon
Supreme Being
Posts: 2433
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2001 2:01 am
Location: On the threshold of a dream

Re: The Azverkan from Mindwerks Sourcebook

Unread post by Tinker Dragoon »

mercedogre wrote:
Tor wrote:The most suspicious thing about them on SB3p45 is that they are unable to become Cyber-Knights.

Yet they may acquire several biolnic implants (even two artificial limbs) so it's not about the cyber-armor...

SB3 came out before Sedition so I don't think it has anything to do with the cyber-armor being TW bionics (like Momano Headhunter) unless we speculate KS already had this in mind.

They have standard psionics same as humans and are not restricted from selecting psionic OCCs or adventurer OCCs like operator who might have unique amounts of it.

What does stand out to me though, is that Cyber-Knights had a unique ability to be able to have their PPE used to power techno-wizard devices.

This was rare amongst character classes who were not mages or psychics.

Could this ability to use PPE for TW devices perhaps be why the Azverkan could not become Cyber-Knights?


The exclusion of the Cyber-Knight OCC is kinda weird, I would have thought they would make excellent C-K's


I think the reason they couldn't be Cyber-Knights was simply because 1) Azverkans already have an order of knighthood (The Knights of the True Vision), and 2) the Cyber-Knights are primarily based in North America, while Azverkans are largely unknown outside of Eastern Europe.

As far as I can find, the NGR's retired General Rasheen is the only European Cyber-Knight known to exist, and even he received his training while traveling in North America. That said, it has been indicated in other books that members of virtually any race can become Cyber-Knights, so I see no reason to discriminate against Azverkan-American Cyber-Knights.
There you go man, keep as cool as you can.
Face piles of trials with smiles. It riles
them to believe that you perceive the web they weave
and keep on thinking free.

-- The Moody Blues, In the Beginning
User avatar
Blue_Lion
Knight
Posts: 6226
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 1:01 am
Location: Clone Lab 27

Re: The Azverkan from Mindwerks Sourcebook

Unread post by Blue_Lion »

eliakon wrote:If the class says its human only then its human only.....
I am pretty sure that the 'same as humans' thing means that they get to use the same roll for psionics table as humans.

Can a changeling be a CS SF in the CS that is human only?
The Clones are coming you shall all be replaced, but who is to say you have not been replaced already.

Master of Type-O and the obvios.

Soon my army oc clones and winged-monkies will rule the world but first, must .......

I may debate canon and RAW, but the games I run are highly house ruled. So I am not debating for how I play but about how the system works as written.
User avatar
mercedogre
Dungeon Crawler
Posts: 323
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:54 am
Comment: I ******* hate the atmosphere of the conversations here on these forums
Location: Central Valley California

Re: The Azverkan from Mindwerks Sourcebook

Unread post by mercedogre »

i dont think a changling would get by a dog-boy
You'll take my life but I'll take yours too
You'll fire your musket but I'll run you through
So when you're waiting for the next attack
You'd better stand there's no turning back
User avatar
Blue_Lion
Knight
Posts: 6226
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 1:01 am
Location: Clone Lab 27

Re: The Azverkan from Mindwerks Sourcebook

Unread post by Blue_Lion »

mercedogre wrote:i dont think a changling would get by a dog-boy

The wording in source book one implies they may be able to as they can be any including CS military. While most others would say something like any including CS military equivalent.
The Clones are coming you shall all be replaced, but who is to say you have not been replaced already.

Master of Type-O and the obvios.

Soon my army oc clones and winged-monkies will rule the world but first, must .......

I may debate canon and RAW, but the games I run are highly house ruled. So I am not debating for how I play but about how the system works as written.
User avatar
Tor
Palladin
Posts: 6975
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:37 pm
Comment: If you have something to say, back it up with thoughts and reasons. Simply posting to agree or disagree tends to be a waste.
Location: Pyramid

Re: The Azverkan from Mindwerks Sourcebook

Unread post by Tor »

Conversion Book also kinda implied they could be any CS OCC. Although their detection methods could've improved over time, like mandatory See Aura or salt-tasting as their lore improved.
"1st edition? 2nd edition? It doesnt matter! Let's just talk" -Forums of the Megaverse
Post Reply

Return to “Rifts®”