Shadow updates included in pdfs?

[Proseksword]

I know a number of the older sourcebooks have been getting stat tweaks following RIFTs Ultimate Edition to bring them more in line with the current sourcebooks.

Can anyone confirm if the stealth updates are included in the new .pdfs of older books like Atlantis available at DriveThruRPG? There's no way I'm buying another full-price sourcebook for a few added perception bonuses, but I don't have .pdfs for these books, and at half cover price I'd probably consider them.....

[cchopps]

I know a number of the older sourcebooks have been getting stat tweaks following RIFTs Ultimate Edition to bring them more in line with the current sourcebooks.

Can anyone confirm if the stealth updates are included in the new .pdfs of older books like Atlantis available at DriveThruRPG? There's no way I'm buying another full-price sourcebook for a few added perception bonuses, but I don't have .pdfs for these books, and at half cover price I'd probably consider them.....

This rumor has been going around for years, but has never been confirmed. The most common *claim* is that newer printings of Atlantis have Perception bonuses for True Atlanteans. None of my local gaming stores have it in stock, so I have never been able to check.

C. Chopps

[Slight001]

I know a number of the older sourcebooks have been getting stat tweaks following RIFTs Ultimate Edition to bring them more in line with the current sourcebooks.

Can anyone confirm if the stealth updates are included in the new .pdfs of older books like Atlantis available at DriveThruRPG? There's no way I'm buying another full-price sourcebook for a few added perception bonuses, but I don't have .pdfs for these books, and at half cover price I'd probably consider them.....

This rumor has been going around for years, but has never been confirmed. The most common *claim* is that newer printings of Atlantis have Perception bonuses for True Atlanteans. None of my local gaming stores have it in stock, so I have never been able to check.

C. Chopps

I can't confirm Atlantis, but both Juicer Uprising and Coalition War Campaign have been shadow updated.

[The Beast]

While I hope they update their PDFs as such, something tells me they don't, considering the only erratas that are posted on their website don't seem to have been updated recently.

What would be nice is if they posted a PDF of the shadow updates and erratas for each book they've corrected so we could download them here.

[Glistam]

While I hope they update their PDFs as such, something tells me they don't, considering the only erratas that are posted on their website don't seem to have been updated recently.

What would be nice is if they posted a PDF of the shadow updates and erratas for each book they've corrected so we could download them here.

But if they did that then you wouldn't have to buy the book in order to get the updates.

[eliakon]

The most frustrating part of this is that I WOULD buy the updated books....if I was certain which ones they were, and what was updated....

[Tor]

The Palladium Store or wherever they distribute E-books including a "nth printing, MONTH, YEAR" label would be a good minimum, since then at least we could match this up with claims of other people who have that edition.

[13eowulf]

I can confirm that there are changes from the early Atlantis printings and the Atlantis PDF. I bought the PDF just to check on this.

I havent fully gone page by page, line by line. But most monsters and RCCs have updated number of attacks. True Atlanteans do not have Perception Bonuses, though that is a thing I have seen added in other shadow updates (CWC & JU).

Also to note, instead of "nth printing, MONTH, YEAR" the Atlantis book has "PDF Edition, MONTH, YEAR"

[wyrmraker]

Palladium REALLY needs to start posting exactly how the 'Shadow Updates' affect the game...

[Proseksword]

Would the moderators here be okay if the fans started collecting the shadow updates in a thread here for everyone to refer to? I can understand if Palladium's staff is too busy working on actual upcoming product, but I should think the fans should be able to collect it, sort of like the RIFTs Ultimate Edition errata......

[FluidicAztec]

This has been a pet peeve of mine for a while. I would replace my books every few years if I knew the current printing. The only way to know is when PB announces on the home page the reprinting of a book. I do wish the store showed the current printing. I think a page like what Nexus Nine has for the Rifters would be cool. Something that simply shows the book and current printing.

[kaid]

One would assume the PDF will be based off what the current printing of the book so should include any/all updates/errata/bug fixes done.

[Tiree]

One would assume the PDF will be based off what the current printing of the book so should include any/all updates/errata/bug fixes done.

Except for older books, where they only have scanned copies.

[kaid]

One would assume the PDF will be based off what the current printing of the book so should include any/all updates/errata/bug fixes done.

Except for older books, where they only have scanned copies.

Well one would assume they would still be using the latest information printing that they have for the book they are doing a .pdf of unless that information was lost/destroyed since the last time that book was reprinted.

[Tiree]

One would assume the PDF will be based off what the current printing of the book so should include any/all updates/errata/bug fixes done.

Except for older books, where they only have scanned copies.

Well one would assume they would still be using the latest information printing that they have for the book they are doing a .pdf of unless that information was lost/destroyed since the last time that book was reprinted.

Blame the "Crisis of Treachery". From what I understand it wasn't till the mid 2000's that PB stopped marking books up using boards and paper, and switched to electronic format. So even for later printings they are scanned, lost, stolen, or destroyed.

[Kagashi]

I can confirm hard copies of Atlantis, CWC, JU, and Free Quebec have Shadow Updates. No idea if the PDFs follow suit.

Its of note, Atlantis was the first and didnt quite have all the Shadow Update info in it the subsequent products. Foe example, every SU refers to RUE under secondary skills, except Atlantis which uses the RMB method of secondary skills.

[Kagashi]

Would the moderators here be okay if the fans started collecting the shadow updates in a thread here for everyone to refer to? I can understand if Palladium's staff is too busy working on actual upcoming product, but I should think the fans should be able to collect it, sort of like the RIFTs Ultimate Edition errata......

Since Palladium will not post eratta of Shadow Updates, and KS told me he didnt want people to feel like they had to repurchase the books, I think we should just post it ourselves and people can pencil in the changes. In the modern age where you are not necessarily playing with the same core groups of friends over table top anymore, its important for all players to have the same reference materials.

[13eowulf]

I can confirm hard copies of Atlantis, CWC, JU, and Free Quebec have Shadow Updates. No idea if the PDFs follow suit.

Its of note, Atlantis was the first and didnt quite have all the Shadow Update info in it the subsequent products. Foe example, every SU refers to RUE under secondary skills, except Atlantis which uses the RMB method of secondary skills.

I can confirm that for Atlantis the PDF still uses the RMB method for Secondary skills, so I would venture to say that the 'most recent' hard copy version of Atlantis with the shadow updates is what was used for the PDF.

[Kagashi]

I can confirm hard copies of Atlantis, CWC, JU, and Free Quebec have Shadow Updates. No idea if the PDFs follow suit.

Its of note, Atlantis was the first and didnt quite have all the Shadow Update info in it the subsequent products. Foe example, every SU refers to RUE under secondary skills, except Atlantis which uses the RMB method of secondary skills.

I can confirm that for Atlantis the PDF still uses the RMB method for Secondary skills, so I would venture to say that the 'most recent' hard copy version of Atlantis with the shadow updates is what was used for the PDF.

How much MDC does the PDF say the Sunaj Assassin Environmental Armor has? If its 130, then you have a Shadow Update.

[13eowulf]

I can confirm hard copies of Atlantis, CWC, JU, and Free Quebec have Shadow Updates. No idea if the PDFs follow suit.

Its of note, Atlantis was the first and didnt quite have all the Shadow Update info in it the subsequent products. Foe example, every SU refers to RUE under secondary skills, except Atlantis which uses the RMB method of secondary skills.

I can confirm that for Atlantis the PDF still uses the RMB method for Secondary skills, so I would venture to say that the 'most recent' hard copy version of Atlantis with the shadow updates is what was used for the PDF.

How much MDC does the PDF say the Sunaj Assassin Environmental Armor has? If its 130, then you have a Shadow Update.

Yep, 130, not 110.

[Tor]

I just don't get why, if Palladium wants to do these updates, why they don't make them more apparent. Like "as of xxxPA the Splugorth have added 20 MDC to the armor, to counter the growing Coalition threat" or something. It'd be easier enough to explain updates, instead of hiding them from us and creating a massively inconsistent setting.

It's almost where it'd be easier to declare a game as "first printings of world books only" so at least everything's guaranteed same.

[Blue_Lion]

It may be annoying that they do not post the errata and changes, but as I understand it one of the reason they do not is they do not want you to fill like you need to buy a new copy of an book.

[Tiree]

It may be annoying that they do not post the errata and changes, but as I understand it one of the reason they do not is they do not want you to fill like you need to buy a new copy of an book.

That is one interpretation. The other interpretation is that they don't give you the changes, so you will purchase a second, third, fifth eighteenth copy of the same book.

[13eowulf]

It may be annoying that they do not post the errata and changes, but as I understand it one of the reason they do not is they do not want you to fill like you need to buy a new copy of an book.

That is one interpretation. The other interpretation is that they don't give you the changes, so you will purchase a second, third, fifth eighteenth copy of the same book.

If that were true then they would identify/notify that there were updates/changes made. As it is they do not, which lends credence to the idea of not wanting people to feel like they need a new book.

[The Beast]

It may be annoying that they do not post the errata and changes, but as I understand it one of the reason they do not is they do not want you to fill like you need to buy a new copy of an book.

Except by not posting the errata I now need to do exactly that if I want the corrected information.

[Nightmask]

It may be annoying that they do not post the errata and changes, but as I understand it one of the reason they do not is they do not want you to fill like you need to buy a new copy of an book.

Except by not posting the errata I now need to do exactly that if I want the corrected information.

Or you could just go 'hey I don't require that to run a game, not like those little changes really matter in the long run to feel like you have to have every single change listed and have to incorporate them as soon as any are made'.

[Kagashi]

It may be annoying that they do not post the errata and changes, but as I understand it one of the reason they do not is they do not want you to fill like you need to buy a new copy of an book.

Except by not posting the errata I now need to do exactly that if I want the corrected information.

Or you could just go 'hey I don't require that to run a game, not like those little changes really matter in the long run to feel like you have to have every single change listed and have to incorporate them as soon as any are made'.

Until that GM in a Play by Post game whom physically resides in Alaska reviews a players character sheet who physically resides in Paris France and notices the auto dodge bonuses of that mega juicer is way off what he is expecting to see or the fact that that Mega Juicer too Boxing as a secondary skill. Or the player wonders why the Splugorth Slavers seem to have an extra 3 attacks per melee round from what he is reading in his book.

Remember, today is a day where gaming does not always take place in a basement on a Saturday morning with a collective library of the same six friends every week. We all have our own libraries these days and it would be nice to know what page everybody was on.

Posting errata would fix that. Those whom want to spend the money on the newer printing will. Those who do not want to spend the cash will just write in the changes.

This is exactly how you update pubs in aviation. You receive a notification that there was a change and you literally pencil it in with the notification number next to it.

Anyway, Palladium already has some errata posted from a ways back...just keep posting it.

[Kagashi]

It may be annoying that they do not post the errata and changes, but as I understand it one of the reason they do not is they do not want you to fill like you need to buy a new copy of an book.

That is one interpretation. The other interpretation is that they don't give you the changes, so you will purchase a second, third, fifth eighteenth copy of the same book.

Star Wars: Extended Directors Blu-ray Super Edition syndrome.

[Tor]

Or you could just go 'hey I don't require that to run a game, not like those little changes really matter in the long run to feel like you have to have every single change listed and have to incorporate them as soon as any are made'.

This works well enough for IRL games where you might have a GM owning a set of books and the players going by those, but with online gaming (whether chatroom/IM or PBP) where everyone has their own set of books then these inconsistencies matter.

[Blue_Lion]

It may be annoying that they do not post the errata and changes, but as I understand it one of the reason they do not is they do not want you to fill like you need to buy a new copy of an book.

Except by not posting the errata I now need to do exactly that if I want the corrected information.

Or you could just go 'hey I don't require that to run a game, not like those little changes really matter in the long run to feel like you have to have every single change listed and have to incorporate them as soon as any are made'.

Until that GM in a Play by Post game whom physically resides in Alaska reviews a players character sheet who physically resides in Paris France and notices the auto dodge bonuses of that mega juicer is way off what he is expecting to see or the fact that that Mega Juicer too Boxing as a secondary skill. Or the player wonders why the Splugorth Slavers seem to have an extra 3 attacks per melee round from what he is reading in his book.

Remember, today is a day where gaming does not always take place in a basement on a Saturday morning with a collective library of the same six friends every week. We all have our own libraries these days and it would be nice to know what page everybody was on.

Posting errata would fix that. Those whom want to spend the money on the newer printing will. Those who do not want to spend the cash will just write in the changes.

This is exactly how you update pubs in aviation. You receive a notification that there was a change and you literally pencil it in with the notification number next to it.

Anyway, Palladium already has some errata posted from a ways back...just keep posting it.

Armies hard copy TM are in three ring binder format so that you can just replace the pages that changed. (Most now are in electronic form so updated easer.)

But yea it would reduce confusion and some would buy the new book and some would just add in notes about the errata.

[cchopps]

I can confirm hard copies of Atlantis, CWC, JU, and Free Quebec have Shadow Updates. No idea if the PDFs follow suit.

Its of note, Atlantis was the first and didnt quite have all the Shadow Update info in it the subsequent products. Foe example, every SU refers to RUE under secondary skills, except Atlantis which uses the RMB method of secondary skills.

I can confirm that for Atlantis the PDF still uses the RMB method for Secondary skills, so I would venture to say that the 'most recent' hard copy version of Atlantis with the shadow updates is what was used for the PDF.

How much MDC does the PDF say the Sunaj Assassin Environmental Armor has? If its 130, then you have a Shadow Update.

Yep, 130, not 110.

Wow. I am actually really mad. Really mad. I guess part of me has been hoping it was just rumors. I've never seen someone put out an actual specific change. How can they not post an errata or changelog? That is standard practice and doesn't make anyone feel the need to go buy a new book. Making changes and not posting the log does that, because then you don't know *what* has changed. If you have a log then you can use your old book, but reference the document for updates.

I defend Palladium and Rifts every chance I get. I love the Palladium games and the worlds. It has had a huge impact on my life and I own just about every physical book they have ever published. I've been accused of being a Palladium apologist more times than I can count and have always felt that was BS... but now for the very first time in 23 years I feel truly let down.

Damn. Sorry guys.

C. Chopps

[13eowulf]

I can confirm hard copies of Atlantis, CWC, JU, and Free Quebec have Shadow Updates. No idea if the PDFs follow suit.

Its of note, Atlantis was the first and didnt quite have all the Shadow Update info in it the subsequent products. Foe example, every SU refers to RUE under secondary skills, except Atlantis which uses the RMB method of secondary skills.

I can confirm that for Atlantis the PDF still uses the RMB method for Secondary skills, so I would venture to say that the 'most recent' hard copy version of Atlantis with the shadow updates is what was used for the PDF.

How much MDC does the PDF say the Sunaj Assassin Environmental Armor has? If its 130, then you have a Shadow Update.

Yep, 130, not 110.

Wow. I am actually really mad. Really mad. I guess part of me has been hoping it was just rumors. I've never seen someone put out an actual specific change. How can they not post an errata or changelog? That is standard practice and doesn't make anyone feel the need to go buy a new book. Making changes and not posting the log does that, because then you don't know *what* has changed. If you have a log then you can use your old book, but reference the document for updates.

I defend Palladium and Rifts every chance I get. I love the Palladium games and the worlds. It has had a huge impact on my life and I own just about every physical book they have ever published. I've been accused of being a Palladium apologist more times than I can count and have always felt that was BS... but now for the very first time in 23 years I feel truly let down.

Damn. Sorry guys.

C. Chopps

I *think* I understand where Palladium is coming from. Though while I agree that more errata should be posted, the books as-is can still be used to play, none of the changes are that grand.
I dont even need the errata though, all I want is a list of books that have had stats changes. That way people can decide if they want to buy the updated one or not.