Need help designing power armor.

[say652]

Very interested in designing Rifts style pa, do I use the Robot occ as the template?

[Bill]

Use a couple of the existing powered armors as a template. Take note of everything they include and that they do not, then start filling in the blanks. Original material isn't quite as simple as selecting from a menu of options, like designing a character. You have the ability to put in any values you care to, but it's in the best interests of the story to not make your original creation obviously better than all other options; or at the very least to build in draw-backs and flaws that offset the advantages. And rarity is not a real draw-back unless you're willing to enforce it (not allowing players to start with it, having villains try to take it from them when they finally do get it).

[Nekira Sudacne]

Very interested in designing Rifts style pa, do I use the Robot occ as the template?

No, the robot OCC dosn't equate to power armor. They have a lot more internal space to cram systems, while a PA has to fit a person inside.

[say652]

Working on something, I will post and look forward to input.

[ShadowLogan]

Very interested in designing Rifts style pa, do I use the Robot occ as the template?

In many respect, yes you can use the Robot RCC in SB1o/r to create power armor and piloted robots in a general overview sort of way. You'll still need to make allowances for the pilot obviously since that is not something the rules there really consider (see HU, since those construction rules are more depth and breadth than the Rifts's version) as they focus on the AI types instead of manned.

Another option is to build a borg chassis (or take existing ones) using existing parts and make allowances for the pilot instead of it being a 'borg. It is actually possible to come close to an old Style SAMAS IIRC doing this, so the basic premise isn't out there.

As Bill suggested, you should also look to existing systems to establish a baseline and have drawbacks and such.

[drewkitty ~..~]

The Robot char class...really the Android Char Class....is just the Robotics power cat edited.
So I would driect you to the robotics power cat.

There is also some standard models in HU:AU that can be customized....sort of.

[say652]

Super Soldier 652.
8feet. 300lbs.

Upper arms 125mdc.
Forearms 130mdc.
Hands 35mdc.
Legs 165mdc.
Feet 50mdc.
Head 165mdc.
Mainbody 240mdc.

Robot Ps40.
Speed 480mph.
Jump +10 feet up/across per 40mph speed.
500 feet up/across jet assisted leap. Silent.

+14: Iniative.
+7:Attacks.
+5: strike ranged.
+1: strike h2h.
+10: Dodge.
+8: Parry.
+7: Roll.
+1: Disarm.
+1: Pull punch.
Dodge&shoot, only Power armor bonus to strike.

Weapon Systems.
4 Mekanikal Cutter Weapon
2 forearm.
2 shins.

Advanced Sensory and Movement.
Sensory Antennae.
Hydraulic leg boosters.
Panorama Cluster lens.
Wide angle vision.
Advanced Audio.
Laser targeting.
Motion detector.
Maxi radar.
Telemental helmet.
Designed for speed and combat.
Full reinforced exoskeleton.
Forearm weapon guards.
Environmental upgrade.

No prowl penalty.


Appearance.

[Bill]

So, which suit of armor in the game isn't this superior to? Other than your next one, that is.

[say652]

It's all standard gear. I limited the weapon systems to encourage rifle and sword use.
It only flies up to 500 feet high.

[Bill]

This is why I told you to start with existing power armor suits as a baseline. While you can easily derive these kind of stats from the SB1 design system, they're not consistent with other suits that have been published. You have succeeded in creating a much better suit than most of the other options, making the decision of which suit to take a less interesting choice for a player to make.

[say652]

If I add on armor for a -20% penalty, then how is the unit?

[Nightmask]

This is why I told you to start with existing power armor suits as a baseline. While you can easily derive these kind of stats from the SB1 design system, they're not consistent with other suits that have been published. You have succeeded in creating a much better suit than most of the other options, making the decision of which suit to take a less interesting choice for a player to make.

So why does it have to be consistent with what's in the books? So far what we're seeing is just the stats on the armor anyway, nothing about if it's custom work for an individual or if it's meant to be a production line item from a new manufacturer, and we in particular don't see what it costs so price-wise alone by the books it's balance (as if Rifts ever had that) could easily be achieved by it simply being hard to purchase due to expense.

[say652]

Super Soldier 652.
8feet. 300lbs.
Tentacles 9 feet with four fingered claw.

Upper arms 125mdc.
Forearms 130mdc.
Hands 35mdc.
Upperlegs 140mdc.
Shin/knee165mdc.
Feet 50mdc.
(12) Tentacle 20mdc.
(12) claw 20mdc.
Head 165mdc.
Mainbody 240mdc.

Robot Ps40.
Speed 576mph.
Jump +10 feet up/across per 40mph speed.
500 feet up/across jet assisted leap. Silent.

+14: Iniative.
+7:Attacks.
+5: strike ranged.
+1: strike h2h.
+10: Dodge.
+8: Parry.
+7: Roll.
+1: Disarm.
+1: Pull punch.
Dodge&shoot, only Power armor bonus to strike.
Dodge bullets& energy 1/2 dodge bonus and returned fire counts as a surprise attack.
3 chances to detonate a missile volley before impact.
No penalty for firing weapon systems moving, climbing, upside down, falling etc.

Weapon Systems.
4 Mekanikal Cutter Weapon
2 forearm.
2 shins.

Advanced Sensory and Movement.
Contragravity Jump and stabilization system.
Sensory Antennae.
Hydraulic leg boosters.
Panorama Cluster lens.
Wide angle vision.
Advanced Audio.
Laser targeting.
Motion detector.
Maxi radar.
Telemental helmet.
Designed for speed and combat.
Full reinforced exoskeleton.
Forearm/shin weapon guards.
Environmental upgrade.

No prowl penalty.


Appearance:
A tall humanoid armor with long ears and a Mohawk, dust grey in color with the retractable tentacle per limb.

Removed the flight system, and updated the weapon system.
The pilot focuses on moving and uses the 12 tentacle weapon system.
4 vibro claw 4D4md.
8 laser palm:blast 4D6md pulse 1D6x10+10md.

[Bill]

This is why I told you to start with existing power armor suits as a baseline. While you can easily derive these kind of stats from the SB1 design system, they're not consistent with other suits that have been published. You have succeeded in creating a much better suit than most of the other options, making the decision of which suit to take a less interesting choice for a player to make.

So why does it have to be consistent with what's in the books? So far what we're seeing is just the stats on the armor anyway, nothing about if it's custom work for an individual or if it's meant to be a production line item from a new manufacturer, and we in particular don't see what it costs so price-wise alone by the books it's balance (as if Rifts ever had that) could easily be achieved by it simply being hard to purchase due to expense.

I suppose you are correct. Consistency and balance are external constructs with no validity. I shall upgrade the stats on all of my custom gear to infinite immediately.

[say652]

I changed the whole design of the armor, didn't add a penalty.
Would a can only use internal weapon system clause. Seems a little harsh.

Imagine the stealthy armor, railgun moving silently the twelve tentacles covering all possible angles of attack.
Pretty cool I think.

[say652]

I think I am goin to make an AI to go with the the tentacles some times shooting others adding in to the nimble movement of the suit.
I didn't want to add an AI in to the suit but the bonuses started piling up, perhaps if I divide them between the pilot and tentacle weapon/movement system.

[say652]

Super Soldier 652.
8feet. 300lbs.
Tentacles 9 feet with four fingered claw.

Upper arms 125mdc.
Forearms 130mdc.
Hands 35mdc.
Upperlegs 140mdc.
Shin/knee165mdc.
Feet 50mdc.
(12) Tentacle 20mdc.
(12) claw 20mdc.
Head 165mdc.
Mainbody 240mdc.

Robot Ps40.
Speed 576mph.
Jump +10 feet up/across per 40mph speed.
500 feet up/across jet assisted leap. Silent.

+14: Iniative.
+7:Attacks.
+5: strike ranged.
+1: strike h2h.
+10: Dodge.
+8: Parry.
+7: Roll.
+1: Disarm.
+1: Pull punch.
Dodge&shoot, only Power armor bonus to strike.
Dodge bullets& energy 1/2 dodge bonus and returned fire counts as a surprise attack.
3 chances to detonate a missile volley before impact.
No penalty for firing weapon systems moving, climbing, upside down, falling etc.

Weapon Systems.
4 Mekanikal Cutter Weapon
2 forearm.
2 shins.

Advanced Sensory and Movement.
Contragravity Jump and stabilization system.
Sensory Antennae.
Hydraulic leg boosters.
Panorama Cluster lens.
Wide angle vision.
Advanced Audio.
Laser targeting.
Motion detector.
Maxi radar.
Telemental helmet.
Designed for speed and combat.
Full reinforced exoskeleton.
Forearm/shin weapon guards.
Environmental upgrade.

No prowl penalty.


Appearance:
A tall humanoid armor with long ears and a Mohawk, dust grey in color with the retractable tentacle per limb.

Removed the flight system, and updated the weapon system.
The pilot focuses on moving and uses the 12 tentacle weapon system.
4 vibro claw 4D4md.
8 laser palm:blast 4D6md pulse 1D6x10+10md.

Finished suit no AI.

[Nightmask]

This is why I told you to start with existing power armor suits as a baseline. While you can easily derive these kind of stats from the SB1 design system, they're not consistent with other suits that have been published. You have succeeded in creating a much better suit than most of the other options, making the decision of which suit to take a less interesting choice for a player to make.

So why does it have to be consistent with what's in the books? So far what we're seeing is just the stats on the armor anyway, nothing about if it's custom work for an individual or if it's meant to be a production line item from a new manufacturer, and we in particular don't see what it costs so price-wise alone by the books it's balance (as if Rifts ever had that) could easily be achieved by it simply being hard to purchase due to expense.

I suppose you are correct. Consistency and balance are external constructs with no validity. I shall upgrade the stats on all of my custom gear to infinite immediately.

The sarcasm and snipe are totally uncalled for. If you can't address my points (like, you know, how all we're seeing are stats and none of the REST of the necessary details to evaluate things IN THE CONTEXT OF THE BOOKS, like price) then simply say so.

[say652]

Super Soldier 652.
8feet. 300lbs.
Tentacles 9 feet with four fingered claw.

Upper arms 125mdc.
Forearms 130mdc.
Hands 35mdc.
Upperlegs 140mdc.
Shin/knee165mdc.
Feet 50mdc.
(12) Tentacle 20mdc.
(12) claw 20mdc.
Head 165mdc.
Mainbody 240mdc.

Robot Ps40.
Speed 576mph.
Jump +10 feet up/across per 40mph speed.
500 feet up/across jet assisted leap. Silent.

+14: Iniative.
+7:Attacks.
+5: strike ranged.
+1: strike h2h.
+10: Dodge.
+8: Parry.
+7: Roll.
+1: Disarm.
+1: Pull punch.
Dodge&shoot, only Power armor bonus to strike.
Dodge bullets& energy 1/2 dodge bonus and returned fire counts as a surprise attack.
3 chances to detonate a missile volley before impact.
No penalty for firing weapon systems moving, climbing, upside down, falling etc.

Weapon Systems.
4 Mekanikal Cutter Weapon
2 forearm.
2 shins.

Advanced Sensory and Movement.
Contragravity Jump and stabilization system.
Sensory Antennae.
Hydraulic leg boosters.
Panorama Cluster lens.
Wide angle vision.
Advanced Audio.
Laser targeting.
Motion detector.
Maxi radar.
Telemental helmet.
Designed for speed and combat.
Full reinforced exoskeleton.
Forearm/shin weapon guards.
Environmental upgrade.

No prowl penalty.


Appearance:
A tall humanoid armor with long ears and a Mohawk, dust grey in color with the retractable tentacle per limb.

Removed the flight system, and updated the weapon system.
The pilot focuses on moving and uses the 12 tentacle weapon system.
4 finger vibro claw 4D4md. +1 strike +2 parry +4 damage.
12 laser palm:blast 4D6md pulse 1D6x10+10md.
+3 strike blast +1 strike pulse. All bonuses in addition to suit bonus.

Finished suit no AI.

8 million credits for a new undamaged suit.
Easy to find repair and fix.

[Bill]

This is why I told you to start with existing power armor suits as a baseline. While you can easily derive these kind of stats from the SB1 design system, they're not consistent with other suits that have been published. You have succeeded in creating a much better suit than most of the other options, making the decision of which suit to take a less interesting choice for a player to make.

So why does it have to be consistent with what's in the books? So far what we're seeing is just the stats on the armor anyway, nothing about if it's custom work for an individual or if it's meant to be a production line item from a new manufacturer, and we in particular don't see what it costs so price-wise alone by the books it's balance (as if Rifts ever had that) could easily be achieved by it simply being hard to purchase due to expense.

I suppose you are correct. Consistency and balance are external constructs with no validity. I shall upgrade the stats on all of my custom gear to infinite immediately.

The sarcasm and snipe are totally uncalled for. If you can't address my points (like, you know, how all we're seeing are stats and none of the REST of the necessary details to evaluate things IN THE CONTEXT OF THE BOOKS, like price) then simply say so.

I disagree.

[Bill]

Super Soldier 652.
8feet. 300lbs.
Tentacles 9 feet with four fingered claw.

Upper arms 125mdc.
Forearms 130mdc.
Hands 35mdc.
Upperlegs 140mdc.
Shin/knee165mdc.
Feet 50mdc.
(12) Tentacle 20mdc.
(12) claw 20mdc.
Head 165mdc.
Mainbody 240mdc.

Robot Ps40.
Speed 576mph.
Jump +10 feet up/across per 40mph speed.
500 feet up/across jet assisted leap. Silent.

+14: Iniative.
+7:Attacks.
+5: strike ranged.
+1: strike h2h.
+10: Dodge.
+8: Parry.
+7: Roll.
+1: Disarm.
+1: Pull punch.
Dodge&shoot, only Power armor bonus to strike.
Dodge bullets& energy 1/2 dodge bonus and returned fire counts as a surprise attack.
3 chances to detonate a missile volley before impact.
No penalty for firing weapon systems moving, climbing, upside down, falling etc.

Weapon Systems.
4 Mekanikal Cutter Weapon
2 forearm.
2 shins.

Advanced Sensory and Movement.
Contragravity Jump and stabilization system.
Sensory Antennae.
Hydraulic leg boosters.
Panorama Cluster lens.
Wide angle vision.
Advanced Audio.
Laser targeting.
Motion detector.
Maxi radar.
Telemental helmet.
Designed for speed and combat.
Full reinforced exoskeleton.
Forearm/shin weapon guards.
Environmental upgrade.

No prowl penalty.


Appearance:
A tall humanoid armor with long ears and a Mohawk, dust grey in color with the retractable tentacle per limb.

Removed the flight system, and updated the weapon system.
The pilot focuses on moving and uses the 12 tentacle weapon system.
4 finger vibro claw 4D4md. +1 strike +2 parry +4 damage.
12 laser palm:blast 4D6md pulse 1D6x10+10md.
+3 strike blast +1 strike pulse. All bonuses in addition to suit bonus.

Finished suit no AI.

8 million credits for a new undamaged suit.
Easy to find repair and fix.

So better than most armor. Readily available and easy to repair, but relatively expensive. Can I take it as one of my basic choices as an operator?

[boxee]

Speed is too high. Derived stats are way too high. What are you using to create this PA?
Maybe I could be of more help if I knew were this armor is coming from. Who made it and why?

I really hope I do not sound like I am snubbing your creation, I just do not understand were you are getting the derived values from.

[say652]

This is why I told you to start with existing power armor suits as a baseline. While you can easily derive these kind of stats from the SB1 design system, they're not consistent with other suits that have been published. You have succeeded in creating a much better suit than most of the other options, making the decision of which suit to take a less interesting choice for a player to make.

So why does it have to be consistent with what's in the books? So far what we're seeing is just the stats on the armor anyway, nothing about if it's custom work for an individual or if it's meant to be a production line item from a new manufacturer, and we in particular don't see what it costs so price-wise alone by the books it's balance (as if Rifts ever had that) could easily be achieved by it simply being hard to purchase due to expense.

I suppose you are correct. Consistency and balance are external constructs with no validity. I shall upgrade the stats on all of my custom gear to infinite immediately.

The sarcasm and snipe are totally uncalled for. If you can't address my points (like, you know, how all we're seeing are stats and none of the REST of the necessary details to evaluate things IN THE CONTEXT OF THE BOOKS, like price) then simply say so.

I disagree.

Indeed.
May sugest sugestions in which to make modification.

[say652]

Speed is too high. Derived stats are way too high. What are you using to create this PA?
Maybe I could be of more help if I knew were this armor is coming from. Who made it and why?

I really hope I do not sound like I am snubbing your creation, I just do not understand were you are getting the derived values from.

A pre rifts design. From shortly after the cataclysm. Was designed for ultimate movement in an urban environment. The heavy weapon systems were used to repel hordes of demons.
The pilots also carried a sword and a rifle, sadly no traces have been found so far.


Conversion book 1.
Warlords of Russia.
Heroes Unlimited 2.
Rifts Japan for environmental upgrade.
Phaseworld for the Contragravity flight system, a lesser jump version as tech is not quite understood.
Ja 12 for the lasers.

[Blue_Lion]

Very interested in designing Rifts style pa, do I use the Robot occ as the template?

I have created rules I use for this subject. The goal was to create a frame work to match the MDC and physical stats of PA while allowing for creative adding mixing and implanting new types of features to create new units that stand out from the crowd while not being over powering to the base line. After I had to reformat I lost all digital copies. (my bad for not having an online back up but I still have my hard copies just need more time and desire to work on them.) This makes me think when I do get them done I should post all my creation rules. I do not think they would work for every one but they may inspire some one to create there own rules that suit there personal taste/style. (Note I have allot of material to rewrite and have a fairly full schedule so would be hard to give a time line and PA is the last ones I intend to recopy to digital.)

[say652]

In heroes unlimited the robot category is not over powered.
Funny how in the big bad rifts, designing mediocre suits is setting breaking. Lol.

[Blue_Lion]

Speed is too high. Derived stats are way too high. What are you using to create this PA?
Maybe I could be of more help if I knew were this armor is coming from. Who made it and why?

I really hope I do not sound like I am snubbing your creation, I just do not understand were you are getting the derived values from.

A pre rifts design. From shortly after the cataclysm. Was designed for ultimate movement in an urban environment. The heavy weapon systems were used to repel hordes of demons.
The pilots also carried a sword and a rifle, sadly no traces have been found so far.


Conversion book 1.
Warlords of Russia.
Heroes Unlimited 2.
Rifts Japan for environmental upgrade.
Phaseworld for the Contragravity flight system, a lesser jump version as tech is not quite understood.
Ja 12 for the lasers.

Recommendation light MDC equal tertian hopper to ng samson PA. Physical stats should be around the same scale.
Urban combat I would include some special feature like.
ultra wide band imaging radar. (see through 100 MD or 1000sdc of walls range 200' I use it for several cs urban combat systems in my gen 3 cs gear I created.)
Full mutli optics
back mounted UAV launcher.
Seismic sensors (use the vibrations traveling through the ground created by moving things to locate and map them similar to passive sonar but through the ground)
Deployable sensor pods (Wi-Fi multi optic cameras.)


Primary weapon fully auto 40mm grenade launcher. (several examples in the book including wellington industries. I typically use the one from my house rules that fires grenades equal to hand grenades and can either burst a target with burst rules or an area attack total blast radius of grenades long and blast radius wide should fire max burst of no more than 10.)
Or primary rail gun 1d6X10MD
or primary plasma ejector 1d6X10
or Gatling laser (based off the vulkin laser weapon on the iron heart tank damage per burst1d6X10 fires burst only)

secondary weapon choices
head mounted laser-2d6md
retractable claws or blades 1d6-2d6.
built in sdc machine guns.
Breaching charge dispenser (placed on object and deals damage within 30 seconds and then recommended 1d4X10 - 2d4X10MD)

Just some ideas to that would make your unit stand out from the other PA. I would not recommend choosing all of them.(Did a quick scan of my rules for things that would be handy for an urban combat unit.)

I would not recommend the JA 12 as a pilots side arm/secondary it has better MD than most PA main heavy weapons and is often called by the M word. In addition it is a rather new weapon and to my knowledge not that common. HU/ninja and super spies conversion tend to have powers that can be well beyond what is established in rifts. So if it is a rifts creation it should not have the super powers feel of HU. try limiting rifts creation to near stuff pulled from rifts. (balance issues for people wanting to use them in not super powered games.)
Not that your play style is invalid but is well above what more consider normal acceptable tolerances but then you do seam to be drawn to more super powered than normal rifts stuff.

[Bill]

In heroes unlimited the robot category is not over powered.
Funny how in the big bad rifts, designing mediocre suits is setting breaking. Lol.

Everything is relative. If you're designing material for Rifts, then you better keep in mind what has been established for Rifts. If you're designing material for HU, the standards will necessarily be different. Also, if it's a tech-based HU build, all of the stats ought to be S.D.C. At that point, I have entirely different complaints for you to address.

[say652]

Well post an edited version later today.
I am keeping the sensors reducing mdc and reworking the onboard weapon systems.

[Blue_Lion]

In heroes unlimited the robot category is not over powered.
Funny how in the big bad rifts, designing mediocre suits is setting breaking. Lol.

How is a suit of PA with better stats then most on the book mediocre?

You created a suit with +7 attacks that means a level 1 pilot with rce would have 13 attacks.
He also has +14 inactive, that is crazy high, meaning he has more attacks than any other charter is most likely to go first.
It has a crazy high dodge bonus built in to.
You should compare it to other suits out there before you call it mediocre. Triax, CS and japan cant come close to a suit with all that and those are high end rifts armor makers.

Hear is a list of things that need to be addressed to remove most complaints about it over shadowing other rifts PA.

+14: Iniative.-PA should not provide any where that much inactive i would recommend removing all together.
+7:Attacks.-This needs to be removed at most for the tenticals give +1 attack.
+5: strike ranged.-is this in addition to the laser targeting and other skills seams a bit high
+1: strike h2h.-not sure why it has this.
+10: Dodge. -exceeds standards for this category.
+8: Parry. -way to high
+7: Roll. -way to high
Dodge&shoot, only Power armor bonus to strike.-not standard and with your insane strike bonus on all ranged attack not a draw back
Dodge bullets& energy 1/2 dodge bonus and returned fire counts as a surprise attack.-doge needs to inline with normal range dodge at the very least.
3 chances to detonate a missile volley before impact. -Not standard PA abilty and should not be hear.
No penalty for firing weapon systems moving, climbing, upside down, falling etc.-needs removed
No prowl penalty-I could have sworn by default PA can not prowl and this can without penalty on top of every thing else it can do.

[say652]

The bonuses are legit.

[Blue_Lion]

The bonuses are legit.

In HU when every one is playing super those are not legit for a suit of PA built for rifts.
If you are going to build a PA for rifts do not use HU.
You need to adjust to what the setting has as a standard.
The GB (top in pre rifts PA) only has a +2 to strike with its boom gun. No other PA in Rue provides any special bonus stats beyond skill.
Your PA is over powered because you are min-maxing from HU instead of building a rifts PA.

[boxee]

If this was a unique PA I might see some of the bonuses, but not for mass produced.

[Blue_Lion]

If this was a unique PA I might see some of the bonuses, but not for mass produced.

one or two small bonus would not make it op. we have pa with auto dodge now, but so many large bonus beyond what pa in rifts can even remotely do. heck phase world can not make any thing close to that.

[guardiandashi]

Super Soldier 652.
8feet. 300lbs.

Upper arms 125mdc.
Forearms 130mdc.
Hands 35mdc.
Legs 165mdc.
Feet 50mdc.
Head 165mdc.
Mainbody 240mdc.

Robot Ps40.
Speed 480mph.
Jump +10 feet up/across per 40mph speed.
500 feet up/across jet assisted leap. Silent.

+14: Iniative.
+7:Attacks.
+5: strike ranged.
+1: strike h2h.
+10: Dodge.
+8: Parry.
+7: Roll.
+1: Disarm.
+1: Pull punch.
Dodge&shoot, only Power armor bonus to strike.

Weapon Systems.
4 Mekanikal Cutter Weapon
2 forearm.
2 shins.

Advanced Sensory and Movement.
Sensory Antennae.
Hydraulic leg boosters.
Panorama Cluster lens.
Wide angle vision.
Advanced Audio.
Laser targeting.
Motion detector.
Maxi radar.
Telemental helmet.
Designed for speed and combat.
Full reinforced exoskeleton.
Forearm weapon guards.
Environmental upgrade.

No prowl penalty.

Appearance.

my thoughts
Super Soldier 652.
8feet. 300lbs.

Upper arms 125mdc.
Forearms 130mdc.
Hands 35mdc.
Legs 165mdc.
Feet 50mdc.
Head 165mdc.
Mainbody 240mdc.

Robot Ps40.
Speed 180mph.
Jump +10 feet up/across per 40mph speed.
500 feet up/across jet assisted leap. Silent.

+4: Iniative.
+2:Attacks.
+3: strike ranged.
+1: strike h2h.
+5: Dodge.
+3: Parry.
+2: Roll.
+1: Disarm.
+1: Pull punch.
Dodge & shoot, only Power armor bonus to strike.

Weapon Systems.
4 Mechanical Cutter Weapon
2 forearm.
2 shins.

Advanced Sensory and Movement.
Sensory Antennae.
Hydraulic leg boosters.
Panorama Cluster lens.
Wide angle vision.
Advanced Audio.
Laser targeting.
Motion detector.
Mini radar. (no room for a maxi)
Telemental helmet.
Designed for speed and combat.
Full reinforced exoskeleton.
Forearm weapon guards.
Environmental upgrade.

No prowl penalty.

Appearance.

that would be more in line with rifts bonuses

[Nightmask]

This is why I told you to start with existing power armor suits as a baseline. While you can easily derive these kind of stats from the SB1 design system, they're not consistent with other suits that have been published. You have succeeded in creating a much better suit than most of the other options, making the decision of which suit to take a less interesting choice for a player to make.

So why does it have to be consistent with what's in the books? So far what we're seeing is just the stats on the armor anyway, nothing about if it's custom work for an individual or if it's meant to be a production line item from a new manufacturer, and we in particular don't see what it costs so price-wise alone by the books it's balance (as if Rifts ever had that) could easily be achieved by it simply being hard to purchase due to expense.

I suppose you are correct. Consistency and balance are external constructs with no validity. I shall upgrade the stats on all of my custom gear to infinite immediately.

The sarcasm and snipe are totally uncalled for. If you can't address my points (like, you know, how all we're seeing are stats and none of the REST of the necessary details to evaluate things IN THE CONTEXT OF THE BOOKS, like price) then simply say so.

I disagree.

So you consider sniping appropriate behavior rather than actually address the points being made, good to know.

Meanwhile I'll repeat the glaring hole in your pronouncement how Say's power armors aren't 'balanced against what's in the books': you don't have the information required to make that declaration. To even begin to try and make such a determination (when we all know the books actually aren't balanced the only balance is imposed by the GM) you require the PRICE to purchase the armor compared to other armors. Without the price you can't even begin to compare it with other available power armors since again you require what it costs to do so. You don't know if it costs half or twice or ten times what the next closest power armor costs and if it was cheap what the reasons might be for doing so (ARCHIE-3 could easily under-price everyone if it wanted to for example, and Angar Robotics is ridiculously cheap because its 'armors' are actually demonic entities and it's a trick to recruit skilled warriors for Ahriman). Devoid of that information you can't reasonably judge it compared to others beyond where it might rate better than them, you can't judge whether it's 'too good' compared to other armors without ALL the facts.

[say652]

I refuse to use the existing design parameters and then agree its over powered.

Rifts, where you fight the most powerful things in the universe with garbage.

[boxee]

I refuse to use the existing design parameters and then agree its over powered.

Rifts, where you fight the most powerful things in the universe with garbage.

Where are you getting the design parameters? What books are you using?

Also you asked for peoples opinions, you are free to choose what you want to have in your world. I am not saying your design is bad, I am only saying it is over powered in my games that I run.

Again I am not trying to offend I am only trying to help.

[say652]

Source book 1.
Warlords of Russia.
Heroes Unlimited 2, Robot section only.


End result, take what ever pa you want and spend all your credits on sensors, audio, visual and take sharpshooter energy rifle.

A super spy power armor, since it's stealth design and Mansize for example add on the sensor package replace the forearms with the Mekanikal Cutter Weapon Systems.
Spend the three wps for sharpshooter energy rifle.

Add in hand to hand Akido for a Japan police officer or just read take the Reaver Assassin occ.

[say652]

Starting a new thread.

Pimp My Glitterboy.

Just gonna take a stock suit, and add a sensor package the weapon arms I like and post the bonuses.
I think I'll make a Quick Flex Glitterboy Pilot.

Probably gonna scrap the boomgun for a Flight system go with twin Railgun Pistols.
Make him the worse kind of dbee, a cs bounty hunter, 1/2 bounty but allowed to live in the burbs for a reasonable rent in decent accommodations.

[Hotrod]

I'll take this one step at a time.
8feet. 300lbs. This is roughly on par with a T-31 Super Trooper from Triax 1, p42, which is 450 lbs, or a regular SAMAS, which is 340 lbs without its rail gun and has big jet engines and wings. This suggests your design should have fewer weapons and/or less MDC. Alternately, it could use higher-tech materials like chromium armor.

Upper arms 125mdc.
Forearms 130mdc.
Hands 35mdc.
Legs 165mdc.
Feet 50mdc.
Head 165mdc.
Mainbody 240mdc. Slightly less than the T-31's main body, but the extremities are a lot tougher. I'd divide the head's MDC in half and take down the arms and legs by about a third.

Robot Ps40. That's significantly higher than what is standard for a human-size power armor. The T-31 Super Trooper and the SAMAS have a PS of 30. The UAR-1 has a PS of 40, and it's several times bigger than this.
Speed 480mph.That's 180mph faster than a SAMAS. You haven't mentioned an ability to fly. If you're talking running speed, then you should probably divide that by 10. Human legs just can't crank that fast in a human-size suit.

Jump +10 feet up/across per 40mph speed. See the note on speed above. Also, lateral speed doesn't translate into vertical leap ability this way.

500 feet up/across jet assisted leap. Silent. I'm not aware of silent jet technology on Rifts Earth. Jets are LOUD.

I'll compare your suit's intrinsic bonuses to that of a Juicer conversion.

+14: Iniative. How is this justified? By this bonus, an identical character without this suit will lose the initiative against this guy over 90% of the time. A Juicer conversion grants only +4 to initiative.
+7:Attacks. Again, how is this justified? Even juicer-killer armor only adds 4 attacks, and those attacks are restricted to its computer-controlled arms. This more than doubles a beginning character's attacks. As written, you're giving three and a half times as many attacks as a Juicer conversion.
+5: strike ranged. By virtue of what system? Most laser targeting bonuses give +1 or +2 on aimed shots only. Anything higher than that tends to be very tempermental, situational, and/or specific to a weapon system (like a smart missile). I can't think of any canon suit that gives +5 to strike on any ranged system. The highest I can think of off the top of my head is +2 for the GB-10, and it has to be stabilized to do that.
+1: strike h2h. Not unreasonable, but again, why is this intrinsic to the suit?
+10: Dodge. How is this justified? This means that an unarmored character with a natural strike bonus equal to the pilot's unarmored dodge bonus will miss over 80% of the time. A 12th level Juicer gets only +5 to dodge from his conversion and experience with said conversion.
+8: Parry. Again, you give no justification as to why your suit should have this intrinsic bonus.
+7: Roll. Compare with juicer conversion, which grans only +3.
+1: Disarm. What makes this suit such a great melee system that you get half the disarm bonus of a Juicer conversion?
+1: Pull punch. Again, un-justified.
Dodge&shoot, only Power armor bonus to strike. Effectively an auto-dodge, which is something you generally need something like a Juicer conversion to get.

Weapon Systems.
4 Mekanikal Cutter Weapon Is this an import form the 40k orks?
2 forearm. Weapon hard points or are the forearms themselves weapons?
2 shins. Weapon hard points, or are the shins themselves weapons?

What are the stats on these weapon systems or hard points?

Advanced Sensory and Movement.
Sensory Antennae.
Hydraulic leg boosters.
Panorama Cluster lens.
Wide angle vision.
Advanced Audio.
Laser targeting.
Motion detector.
Maxi radar.
Telemental helmet.
Designed for speed and combat.
Full reinforced exoskeleton.
Forearm weapon guards.
Environmental upgrade. Are these your justifications for the bonuses? I would suggest you put in references for each, like book, page number, and the associated bonus.

No prowl penalty. The MDC of this suit is inconsistent with the stealth-designed power armors published, which are around 180 MDC.


SUMMARY
Without the bonuses, what you have is about on par with the best stuff in Phase World. With the intrinsic suit bonuses, for the purposes of gameplay, your suit is approaching an "I win" button.

I would suggest you try writing up a purpose, origin, and manufacturing story for the suit first, then write up the stats, capabilities, and weapons that make sense given your write up. Maybe draw it, or find a cool mech drawing on DeviantArt and appropriate it for your purposes. If your fluff justifies your stats, you'll probably have fewer objections.

[say652]

I am seriously just going to add the exact same upgrades to an existing suit, to show how on a better designed suit my sensor package upgrade is even more unbalancing.

Stay tuned.
I'm looking for the perfect frame to enhance to ludicrous proportions.

[Hotrod]

Try visualize yourself using all these upgrades simultaneously:

Advanced Sensory and Movement.
Sensory Antennae.
Panorama Cluster lens.
Wide angle vision.
Motion detector.
Maxi radar.
Telemental helmet.

That's 8 different sensory systems to keep track of simultaneously. Realistically, you could probably use 1-2 of those at the same time to good effect; everything else would just be an assault of meaningless visual noise on your eyeballs. Either that, or you'd be so busy trying to read 7 displays that you're constantly tripping over your own feet.

Similarly, building a frame for speed and reinforcing the chassis are likely to be mutually exclusive upgrades.

Also, these upgrades are for cyborgs, not power armor.

[say652]

The system grants 360 degree vision.
I posted a toned down upgrade on the Chipwell.
I even use the horrible Rifts bonuses not the Better heroes unlimited stats for the same stuff O.o

[Hotrod]

The system grants 360 degree vision.
I posted a toned down upgrade on the Chipwell.
I even use the horrible Rifts bonuses not the Better heroes unlimited stats for the same stuff O.o

Again, these are cyborg upgrades, not power armor upgrades. Unless the pilot also had the panoramic cyborg system installed and he was merely wiring his head into a similarly configured power armor helmet (which would likely require a complete redesign of the helmet), it wouldn't work.

Also, 360 degree vision is redundant with wide-angle vision. Since they do the same thing, there should be no bonus.

I'd suggest looking at Rifts Mercenaries, Naruni Wave 2, and NG2 for extra add-ons.

[say652]

Not catching a ban. Good day.

[Hotrod]

Not catching a ban. Good day.

I'm not trying to bait you into anything, just pointing out some of the inconsistencies I see with the established canon world of Rifts.

One other thing you might want to consider: grafting customization upgrades from multiple sources onto the same suit is not a simple or standard thing. Ever plug a US 120V device into a European 240V outlet? You tend to get a pop, and the smell of something burning. That's in the modern era, with lots and lots of global and international standards and trade. In Rifts Earth, there may be some standardization of E-clips, but I seriously doubt that the voltages, currents, mechanical tolerances, heat and cold thermal expansion coefficients, chemical compatibilities of materials, required lubricants, and other engineering considerations are going to match up well between the isolated Japanese tech-cities, the Naruni, Northern Gun, Triax, and Russian cyborg hardware.

Getting one or two upgrades of a given category, like optics, is reasonable. Getting everything that gives bonuses without actually considering the nature of the devices and whether or not they could realistically work as an integrated system? You'll wind up with a Rube Goldberg machine, with too many bells and whistles to be practical.