Strength question

[Lenwen]

Anyone know what numeric value of ps would be needed to lift 100 tonnes ? Or is that even possible in the palladium megaverse at all ??

[valise]

I do baleave you would need a Supernatural P.S. of 12,000. So no it should not be possiable at all to manually lift that much weight.
If your lucky you could get your supernatural P.S. upward of between 30 and 50. I have rarley seen a P.S. higher then that. A 50 would have you carrying 1 ton, and lifting two.
As I said you are not lickly to get your P.S. up to the 50 mark. Mst lickly between high twents and high thirtys is what i normally see with supernatural characters.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Anyone know what numeric value of ps would be needed to lift 100 tonnes ? Or is that even possible in the palladium megaverse at all ??

100 tons is 200,000 pounds

a normal PS of 5,000 would be needed

a Robotic PS of 4,000 would be needed

A supernatural PS of 2,000 would be needed

If one has has the power of Stone Ox from Rifts Japan, it increases lifting and carrying capacity by x50. a normal PS of 100 would be required.

if you got someone with stone Ox, and gave them an augment that granted them supernatural strength, say, the Dragon tattoo from the same book, then a PS of only 40 would be required.

At last, a manageable number.

[H.P. Hovercraft]

Anyone know what numeric value of ps would be needed to lift 100 tonnes ? Or is that even possible in the palladium megaverse at all ??

Yeah..........I once tried to figure out the same thing for a HU character based on Super*** (Dude).

The end result is that you're going to need a Supernatural PS char with a PS attribute within a couple 1000's range.

So, no.

100 tonnes isn't really do-able in Palladium's rule systems (unless you add Gravity Manipulation into the mix.....but by then you're getting diminishing returns on your investment).

[guardiandashi]

actually depending on how you read the "rules" it is possible for a significantly lower strength to manage it. but many people will insist that its a "creative interpretation and doesn't apply.

anyway target ~200,000 lbs + lifting capacity.

reference rifts ultimate edition pg 284 attributes beyond 30
under ordinary "human ps" for every 5 points beyond 30 they can lift or carry 30% more than usual

3-16 "normal" can carry 10x their str in lbs
17+ can carry 20x instaid

robots with ps 17+ can lift and carry 25x str
note giant robots with a str of 40+ can carry 100x ps
supernatural ps 18+ can carry 50x ps

and generally all can lift 2x what they can carry

IF you decide that the beyond 30 str bonus applies then the numbers get a lot more manageable

like supernatural ps 30 can lift ~3000 lbs
35 supernatural base would be 3500 lbs, but if you apply the +30% rule it would be 4550 lbs instaid
40 ps should be 4000lbs but could be 6400 lbs
45 would be 4500lbs or 8550 lbs
50 would be 5000 lbs or 11000 lbs

there are a few other notes like quadropeds (like dogs/horses) etc can carry more...

pg 146 (dog boys) physical bonuses regardless of breed:
physical endurance of the dog boy is twice that of humans when it comes to fatigue and lifting weight in all cases.

[Alrik Vas]

a human with those abilities isn't impossible to come by, considering if lady luck is on your side, you can get a 30 before physical skills. so after, a 40 can be done without super powers, then you have stone ox and gain SN PS somehow and bam...chucking tanks.

though, personally, I'd adjust carry and lift based of the character's mass. a giant creature can use its size and mass for leverage, after all.

[boxee]

Thought Atlas could do it?

[Glistam]

A Juicer with a P.S. of 153 could do it. 110 x 20 x 2 x 4 x 8.2 (the multiplier for the additional 30% for every 5 points over 30) = 200,736 lbs.

[ShadowLogan]

Anyone know what numeric value of ps would be needed to lift 100 tonnes ? Or is that even possible in the palladium megaverse at all ??

It should be possible.

First: Power Leech if they absorb enough energy could do it (if Nekira's right about the numbers as I don't feel like double checking them, one PL only needs 49,700MDC/PPE worth of energy to get a SN PS of 2000, granted at this point their size/mass is going to be potentially obscene, that also assumes every random roll possible nets the max amount so that really is the smallest amount of energy)

Second. Are we limiting ourselves to one individual or a group, and what type of tools might they have to give them mechanical advantage (ex block and tackle) or is this raw strength? With the right tools you could lower the PS requirement.

[Lenwen]

Anyone know what numeric value of ps would be needed to lift 100 tonnes ? Or is that even possible in the palladium megaverse at all ??

100 tons is 200,000 pounds

a normal PS of 5,000 would be needed

a Robotic PS of 4,000 would be needed

A supernatural PS of 2,000 would be needed

If one has has the power of Stone Ox from Rifts Japan, it increases lifting and carrying capacity by x50. a normal PS of 100 would be required.

if you got someone with stone Ox, and gave them an augment that granted them supernatural strength, say, the Dragon tattoo from the same book, then a PS of only 40 would be required.

At last, a manageable number.

So then it would be..

Snps (x50) then x50 again ??

[Nekira Sudacne]

Anyone know what numeric value of ps would be needed to lift 100 tonnes ? Or is that even possible in the palladium megaverse at all ??

100 tons is 200,000 pounds

a normal PS of 5,000 would be needed

a Robotic PS of 4,000 would be needed

A supernatural PS of 2,000 would be needed

If one has has the power of Stone Ox from Rifts Japan, it increases lifting and carrying capacity by x50. a normal PS of 100 would be required.

if you got someone with stone Ox, and gave them an augment that granted them supernatural strength, say, the Dragon tattoo from the same book, then a PS of only 40 would be required.

At last, a manageable number.

So then it would be..

Snps (x50) then x50 again ??

No, you said lift, not carry, SN PS carry's at x50 and lifts at x100. Stone Ox (Rifts Japan) version adds x50 to both values of whoever has it. so it would be 40x100x50

[ShadowLogan]

Anyone know what numeric value of ps would be needed to lift 100 tonnes ? Or is that even possible in the palladium megaverse at all ??

100 tons is 200,000 pounds

a normal PS of 5,000 would be needed

a Robotic PS of 4,000 would be needed

A supernatural PS of 2,000 would be needed

If one has has the power of Stone Ox from Rifts Japan, it increases lifting and carrying capacity by x50. a normal PS of 100 would be required.

if you got someone with stone Ox, and gave them an augment that granted them supernatural strength, say, the Dragon tattoo from the same book, then a PS of only 40 would be required.

At last, a manageable number.

So then it would be..

Snps (x50) then x50 again ??

No, you said lift, not carry, SN PS carry's at x50 and lifts at x100. Stone Ox (Rifts Japan) version adds x50 to both values of whoever has it. so it would be 40x100x50

You can also reduce the requirements by having the spell "Mystic Fulcrum" cast on the person. That will increase Lift by 50% and Carry by 10%.

[say652]

Ok.

Start from megahero.
tremendous strength.ps+20 lift times 500.
Major power Supernatural strength. Ps+30+2D6 lift times 750 lbs.

Major power BrickTricks. Lift increased by 75% to
1195 times ps in lbs.
And finally Gravity Manipulation to increase lift to times 15 Of the increased max lift.
Personally I would chang Gravity Manipulation for Teleport or Stretching.

[say652]

With Gravity Manipulation you get a strength arond ps:60 lift of 540 something tons.

[Lenwen]

ok so lemme see if I am following yous guys correctly. (if I am not, please help me out haha)

Mega Hero Strength : 60 x 100 (lifting capability) = 6,000 lbs. (3 tons)

Stone Ox (Rifts Japan) = X 50 . (6,000 x 50) = 300,000 lbs (150 tonnes)

Gravity manipulation = x 15 (300,000lbs x 15) 4,500,000 lbs. (2,250 tonnes)

Brick Tricks = +75% = 7,875,000 lbs. (3,937.5 Tonnes)

Is this how it would work and is the math correct ? (SNPS of 60, of a Mega hero)

[say652]

Incorrect good sir.
Supernatural strength in heroes unlimited is lift ps times 500lbs.
Plus megahero bonuses of 50% to range, sdc, etc.
Without gravity manipulation the character lifts 35tons. Add in Teleport and wow I jumping smashing clapping stomping Beastmode of a hero that can cover 5miles instantaneously.
I use the Blackvault but not the full 50% increase across the board for megaheroes.

[Lenwen]

Incorrect good sir.
A) - Supernatural strength in heroes unlimited is lift ps times 500lbs.
B) - Plus megahero bonuses of 50% to range, sdc, etc.

Without gravity manipulation the character lifts 35tons. Add in Teleport and wow I jumping smashing clapping stomping Beastmode of a hero that can cover 5miles instantaneously.
I use the Blackvault but not the full 50% increase across the board for megaheroes.

A+B = (assuming 60 SNPS) 30,000 / 2 = 15 tonnes + 50% = 22.5 tonnes.

Stone Ox (Rifts Japan) = 50 x 45,000 = 2,250,000

Gravity manipulation = 15 x 2,250,000 = 33,750,000

Brick Tricks = +75% (75% of 33,750,000 lbs = 59,062,500 lbs .. or 29,531.25 tonnes.

(Is that right ?)

[Mack]

Unfortunately, you can not multiply those in that manner.

If it gives a multiplier, that multiplier is based off the character's normal strength, and does not include other bonuses to strength gained through magic.

So if Bob the Mage has three things that double his PS of 10, then the answer is:
10 (base) + 10 (first double) + 10 (second double) + 10 (third double) = 40

[Lenwen]

Unfortunately, you can not multiply those in that manner.

If it gives a multiplier, that multiplier is based off the character's normal strength, and does not include other bonuses to strength gained through magic.

So if Bob the Mage has three things that double his PS of 10, then the answer is:
10 (base) + 10 (first double) + 10 (second double) + 10 (third double) = 40

Ok so then all strength "doublers" do in fact double.. "Base only" strength.

So then perhaps this is correct ..

SNPS - 60

Stone ox = +50% (+30 snps)
Brick Tricks = +75% of base SNPS (60) is +45 to the PS (which after both +30 and the +45 is now .. SNPS of 135.

We know as a matter of fact, SNPS is x500 (HU style) of lift capability. Which means SNPS (135) x Lift Capacity (500) = 67,500 lbs (33.75 Tonnes)

And now we have ..

Gravity Manipulation is x15.

(Is this also then SNPS) (60) x 15 ? Or is it .. 33.75 tonnes (67,500lbs x 15 ) ? ?

After further reading of the Super (major) power Gravity Manipulation .. Holy man is that Severly vague .. wow !

It does not have a limit of the amount of weight you can make "lighter"..

It does say that it is x100 the persons normal weight capacity. So for this it would be .. Which means SNPS (135) x Lift Capacity (500) = 67,500 lbs (33.75 Tonnes) x 100.

67,500 x 100 = 6`750`000 lbs. 3,375 tonnes.

[say652]

Wow peeps chill with the super math before sone jackwagon summons a demon.

Step 1.)
Supernatural Strength Major super ability.
Lift ps times 500 lbs.
So MH bonuses make this first 500 into a 750.

Step 2)
750lbs times ps lift. Plus the BrickTricks bonus that if you did your homework applies only to lift! Max movement speed:6.
Cannot throw superheavy objects.
1312.5lbs times ps lift.

Step three) The wasted Step I call this one.
Gravity Manipulation clearly states if combined wuth other powers the max lift is only multiplied by 10 not 100......
So the megahero bonus takes this 10 up to a 15.
For a whopping 19,687.5lbs times ps.
A truly Gargantuan Lift.

[Lenwen]

Wow peeps chill with the super math before sone jackwagon summons a demon.

Step 1.)
Supernatural Strength Major super ability.
Lift ps times 500 lbs.
So MH bonuses make this first 500 into a 750.

Step 2)
750lbs times ps lift. Plus the BrickTricks bonus that if you did your homework applies only to lift! Max movement speed:6.
Cannot throw superheavy objects.
1312.5lbs times ps lift.

Step three) The wasted Step I call this one.
Gravity Manipulation clearly states if combined wuth other powers the max lift is only multiplied by 10 not 100......
So the megahero bonus takes this 10 up to a 15.
For a whopping 19,687.5lbs times ps.
A truly Gargantuan Lift.

Your step 2 .. (1,312.5 lbs) where did you get this numeric value from ? 750 * 60(ps) = 45`000lbs (22.4 tonnes)

So where does 1,312.5 come from ?

[say652]

750lbs times 1.75 for the seventy five percent increase in lift BrickTricks gives you.

[eliakon]

So anyone with HU scale Supernatural Strength, Stone Ox and a PS of 8+ can lift 100 tons.
Or anyone with HU scale PS 400

[say652]

Yes. Stone ox uses ppe though??

Unless a mystically bestowed Abilities hero, I personally dont allow magic n super powers to blend. There is a few instances where you can have Super Powers and psionics.

In heroes unlimited, Supernatural strength is one of the bigboy powers until around level:10 when energy expulsion powers deal similiar damage at range.

For most of my characters I try to keep it around SnPs:40 decent damage in hu without being game changing.
By stacking abilities that increase lift, you can still make a great heavy lifter but not have to worry about a pc with a SnPs:400 which would deal 2D4×10+385 sdc damage!!

[eliakon]

Yes. Stone ox uses ppe though??

Nope its a constantly active thing

Unless a mystically bestowed Abilities hero, I personally dont allow magic n super powers to blend. There is a few instances where you can have Super Powers and psionics.

The official examples include the Immortal and the Imbued classes as mixing super powers and magic. (or more of super powers as magic)

In heroes unlimited, Supernatural strength is one of the bigboy powers until around level:10 when energy expulsion powers deal similiar damage at range.

Most (not all but most) Major powers tend to be......well major. I don't considerer raw DPS to be a good (or even legitimate) way to figure out the relative power or 'value' of abilities.

For most of my characters I try to keep it around SnPs:40 decent damage in hu without being game changing.
By stacking abilities that increase lift, you can still make a great heavy lifter but not have to worry about a pc with a SnPs:400 which would deal 2D4×10+385 sdc damage!!

Oh I agree that super levels of strength can get out of hand. Though in some cases you sort of need it (Kaiju class giants come to mind for instance) This is one of the reasons that one of my house rules is often that 'max lift is a special effect' (or more exactly that I will work on variances with a player. Thus allowing the super lifter with out needing to make their stat game breaking)

[say652]

The Blackvault megapower
Godlike hitpoints.
1D6×1000 hitpoints plus 1D6×100 per level.
Then as an Immortal Godling when in mdc realms. Hitpoints plus sdc times TWO is his mdc.
I prefer staying power to damage output for my heroes.

[Lenwen]

As I have now done with 95.99999999% of rifts I will simply home rule this I guess. Thank you all for your input / knowledge. Several people have rolled up physical powerhouses and I was looking for an upper limit ish of which I could GM them from you guys helped quite a bit an again thank you all.

I am going to do this the easy way. As per Mack an any doubling of the strength effect will double the base line physical strength stat. Then simply add it all up at the end as per the following..

Snps 50 ps doubled once (50 goes to +50 more)
Snps is now 100
Snaps doubled again (50 goes to 100) now it sits at snps 200.
Snps doubled on mo agin (50 goes to 100) now Snps is sitting at 300

Rather then first double goes to 100 second double goes to 200 third double goes to 400.

[Tor]

Supernatural strength in heroes unlimited is lift ps times 500lbs.
Plus megahero bonuses of 50% to range, sdc, etc.

Not sure the 50% would apply to lifting capacity...

If we go that route then may as well apply it to strike/parry/dodge bonuses from PP too =/

[Lenwen]

Supernatural strength in heroes unlimited is lift ps times 500lbs.
Plus megahero bonuses of 50% to range, sdc, etc.

Not sure the 50% would apply to lifting capacity...

If we go that route then may as well apply it to strike/parry/dodge bonuses from PP too =/

I can see it applying to the Lifting / carry capacity , but not the strike / parry / dodge capabilities, as those are increased via "stats" an certain "skills"

[say652]

House ruled.
Damage and attack bonuses from powers do not get the increase.
But as stated earlier most apply the 50% increase across the board.

[drewkitty ~..~]

ok so let me see if I am following you guys correctly. (if I am not, please help me out ha ha)

Mega Hero Strength : 60 x 100 (lifting capability) = 6,000 lb.. (3 tons)

Stone Ox (Rifts Japan) = X 50 . (6,000 x 50) = 300,000 lb. (150 tones)

Gravity manipulation = x 15 (300,000 lb. x 15) 4,500,000 lb.. (2,250 tones)

Brick Tricks = +75% = 7,875,000 lb.. (3,937.5 Tones)

Is this how it would work and is the math correct ? (SNPS of 60, of a Mega hero)

To my understanding.....
The benefits from any BHE need to have been gained before the char's PS has been turned into SNPS. As in the char having Stone Ox and then having something that turns their PS into SNPS.

[Armorlord]

I recall once having a write up for a full size Zentradi under the original rules, trained as a monk with Stone Ox, and some other power that meant he ate about as much as a micronized person, and the math working out such that he could lift spacecraft.
Haven't seen that one in years, but the chief difference I recall was that old rules Zentradi were just huge SDC beings with piles of strength.

[Blue_Lion]

Stone Ox is mystic martial art abilty and should not be by rules be taken by a charter with super powers. In addition I seam to recall PB putting out that it is a typo. It does not multiply your carry weight by 50 times but changes it to 50 times your PS. If you are going to go with stone Ox then it would most likely be able to be done by a sleeping immortal using the martial art chi art to turn chi into physical stats. (It can also be done by a immortal martial artist that has centuries mastering every known fighting style.

[wyrmraker]

Where is the write up for Brick Tricks? Or am I just blind and not seeing it in my HU books?

[drewkitty ~..~]

Where is the write up for Brick Tricks? Or am I just blind and not seeing it in my HU books?

Seconds the request for the location of said "Brick Tricks". (book/page/paragraph)

[eliakon]

Where is the write up for Brick Tricks? Or am I just blind and not seeing it in my HU books?

Seconds the request for the location of said "Brick Tricks". (book/page/paragraph)

Its a Blackvault wiki power which is why its not in a book

[wyrmraker]

Where is the write up for Brick Tricks? Or am I just blind and not seeing it in my HU books?

Seconds the request for the location of said "Brick Tricks". (book/page/paragraph)

Its a Blackvault wiki power which is why its not in a book

That explains why I'm not finding it. Thanks.