Cheapest MD weapons and armor

[Tor]

I thought it might be interesting to brainstorm this kinda thing.

In terms of inflicting MD, far as I know in RMB the cheapest was a high-explosive grenade. Even though the CS makes them, I figure there must be a lot of corrupt soldiers or really badly guarded barracks since they go for so cheap on the black market, they must be passed around like currency and lies told for how they went missing a lot...

As of Mercs, Northern Gun produces an MD grenade for even cheaper. Lower performance I can look past here because the idea is to look at bare-bottom minimums for gaining the ability to inflict MD. Like: how many beers must a vagabond pass up, or how many hours they would have to work, to buy something that can instant-kill your usual SDC enemy, to give an idea for just how dangerous the world would be.

So from RMB>Mercs the minimum went from 200 creds to 120, I think.

Of course in the long run, if you wanted to inflict MD over prolonged periods, or against a single opponent, grenades can get expensive, so something like an e-clip (with accompanying vibro-blade or energy weapon) can help.

In terms of armor, I think the cheapest way for a good while to get MDC was to buy plastic-man armor.

As of Rifts Underseas though, the MDC wetsuit is even cheaper than the plastic man. I'm not sure I know of any cheaper ways to get MDC protection than this wet-suit, anyone know?

[Rayneth]

The cheapest way to inflict M.D. damage? Ramjet rounds. Turn your otherwise impotent S.D.C. handgun into something that could level a tank. You could get them for 4-5 credits per round from GAW, a full clip for a handgun would be something like 50-60 credits. Lets say a H.E. grenade from NG costs 120 creds or so, its damage is roughly on par with about 7-8 light ramjet rounds, so ramjets is a cheaper way to project your M.D. power with the advantage of improved range with the shortcoming of requiring the initial investment of an S.D.C. weapon.

Armor wise, the new line of Northern Gun armored clothing is the cheapest means to acquire armor as far as I know, albeit non-environmentally sealed, it will still make you all but bulletproof to smaller caliber S.D.C. weaponry. Aside from crafting your own hodgepodge of M.D.C. scrap cobbled together into something usable.

[Shark_Force]

there are some fairly basic traps in CWC somewhere that can inflict MD to robot vehicles and such.

but probably the cheapest effective options are naruni ammo because you don't have to invest in the gun (for ramjet rounds, you need to own a weapon that can fire them. for naruni, you need something that can be a firing pin, which can be improvised quite easily based on the traps that are mentioned as being made with them).

[Tor]

I did consider the Naruni plasma ammo but the downside there is that to set MD traps like this I figure you would need the appropriate skill and I don't know how to put a price on the training required to get that skill. I remember HU had a price-per-skill when you paid to learn them at college or something but don't recall if that ever happened in Rifts.

If someone can find a way to put a price on a skill we can work that in but otherwise I'd probably just go based on gear that any untrained person can use.

I actually came across Ramjet rounds and considered them a candidate but then I forgot about them when I wrote this thread, nice catch

I never did understand why, if they were rare as described, the price was so low. With a price that low you'd think they would be plentiful or something...

As for the gun investment, since the other bottom-line is a 120 credit grenade, there are probably some cheap handguns out there which are still cheaper to buy and have enough left over for a ramjet round compared to a grenade.

Upside to ramjet rounds is that if they are rare, some tougher targets like naked Juicers or giants (before that whole 'make all the giants MDC retcon in RCBrevised) might be unafraid of some SDC gun and get surprised.

Another interesting thing I forgot to mention in the vibro-weapon realm.

Knives and Swords suck cost-wise! Spirit-West introduced the much-cheaper vibro-axe. I expect these are cheaper because they are mass-produced for cutting MDC trees ,or maybe more people know how to use an axe since they would be using it with SDC axes before they acquire MD weapons so that's what they're used to.

The vibro-spear also seems like a better deal to me...

Funny how putting vibro blades is mentioned in traps, the damage they get assumes a vibro-knife, but I think you could line a pit trap with vibro-spears too. Perhaps fewer would hit since it's bigger so you couldn't put as many down though.

Also something interesting: in splynn dimensional market if you buy the "mega-blade" enhancement (normally overpriced compared to vibros) for something cheap like a club (starting cost only 10 credits) then you get a 1d6 MD weapon for only 1000 credits and it'll last you years.

I'm not sure how long you can keep a vibro-blade on, I figure it uses some kinda energy clip which you could buy and which lasted a certain amount of time and which had a recharge cost but I'm just not sure how much that is.

Considering that standard/short e-clips fit into the handles of pistols, I could see it being the same type used in a vibro-blade. As opposed to the smaller ones like which are used in a laser-wand.

Just not sure on length, we aren't told it like with plasma melee weapons, I remember one Kittani thing had a certain amount of minutes but that each 'turn on' used up a minute (kind of like light switches).

I'd figure that it might take less energy to keep a vibro-knife active compared to a vibro-saber since it would be smaller, more energy to vibrate a larger object and create more damage? A table for all vibro weapons saying how many minutes each gets out of a standard e-clip would be cool. Along with a 'every activation uses up X time' limit to prevent excessive micromanagement.

Also wondering if we could do something interesting like : a vibro blade takes 1/2 damage to its MDC when targetted while the field is on? Not sure if that'd work, don't understand the energy field.

[Killer Cyborg]

viewtopic.php?p=2641373#p2641373
Light Tactical Armor (MO, 109)
Bought Used (RGMG, 202).
MDC: 4
Cost: 3,500

Long Bow (Cost ?)
1 arrow tipped with Naruni Plasma Derringer Rounds (which detonate on impact: 5d6 MD). Cost: CR 20

[flatline]

Where does it say that Naruni cartridges function outside of weapons built for them?

--flatline

[Killer Cyborg]

Where does it say that Naruni cartridges function outside of weapons built for them?

--flatline

CWC, in the description of various booby traps, specifically in the Naruni Bullet Mine, which is just like a normal bullet mine, only with a Naruni cartridge.
Which means that they work more or less like conventional bullets/cartridges.

Edit:
I went over it in that other thread, here:
viewtopic.php?p=2642718#p2642718

[kaid]

I think the cheapest MDC weapon is the breach loading single shot BB pirate looking gun from black market. In some areas they simply give the gun away for free if you purchase the ammunition.

As for cheapest MD armor it would be hodge podge type armors I believe. Its free to anybody who can kill some critter or find one dead and skin it and tan/cure the hide.

[flatline]

Where does it say that Naruni cartridges function outside of weapons built for them?

--flatline

CWC, in the description of various booby traps, specifically in the Naruni Bullet Mine, which is just like a normal bullet mine, only with a Naruni cartridge.
Which means that they work more or less like conventional bullets/cartridges.

Edit:
I went over it in that other thread, here:
viewtopic.php?p=2642718#p2642718

Hmm...I have issues with plasma beam weapons in general and have house rules in place that are directly at odds with letting this type of booby trap work. But I guess that's my problem.

--flatline

[Killer Cyborg]

Where does it say that Naruni cartridges function outside of weapons built for them?

--flatline

CWC, in the description of various booby traps, specifically in the Naruni Bullet Mine, which is just like a normal bullet mine, only with a Naruni cartridge.
Which means that they work more or less like conventional bullets/cartridges.

Edit:
I went over it in that other thread, here:
viewtopic.php?p=2642718#p2642718

Hmm...I have issues with plasma beam weapons in general and have house rules in place that are directly at odds with letting this type of booby trap work. But I guess that's my problem.

--flatline

I think it shouldn't have been written up that way, but they never asked me.

[kaid]

I thought it was a bit silly but jury rigging traps using munitions is about as old as munitions. Soldiers will find a way to make something that goes bang into something they can hook up as a booby trap. For something like those it would basically turn the round into a small plasma grenade. Clearly there is a large amount of stored energy in those rounds so it is not totally senseless that piercing that containment would cause a small explosion.

[flatline]

Where does it say that Naruni cartridges function outside of weapons built for them?

--flatline

CWC, in the description of various booby traps, specifically in the Naruni Bullet Mine, which is just like a normal bullet mine, only with a Naruni cartridge.
Which means that they work more or less like conventional bullets/cartridges.

Edit:
I went over it in that other thread, here:
viewtopic.php?p=2642718#p2642718

Hmm...I have issues with plasma beam weapons in general and have house rules in place that are directly at odds with letting this type of booby trap work. But I guess that's my problem.

--flatline

I think it shouldn't have been written up that way, but they never asked me.

I guess it's time for me to start a thread about how and why I "fixed" plasma weapons in my setting.

--flatline

[ShadowLogan]

In terms of armor, I think the cheapest way for a good while to get MDC was to buy plastic-man armor.

Cheapest way is to Steal/find it.

Another thing to consider is MDC per credit. Some suits may be more cost effective than others, especially if they come with perks. Just looking at the cost can skew things.

Of course in the long run, if you wanted to inflict MD over prolonged periods, or against a single opponent, grenades can get expensive, so something like an e-clip (with accompanying vibro-blade or energy weapon) can help.

I think the problem here is that outside of grenades using Eclips, Ramjets, or other methods (CFT cartridge, Plasma Cartridge, etc) they are not directly comparable since damage isn't the same, nor is the payload. So to really compare one would have to look at the cost per shot, plus factor in damage per shot.

A standard Eclip is 5000credits, if a pistol only gets 15shots each shot costs ~333credits. A single CFT round is 320. CFT though has shorter range, so for that extra 13credits you are getting enhanced range.

The cheapest way to inflict MD is to steal/find a MD capable item.

If someone can find a way to put a price on a skill we can work that in but otherwise I'd probably just go based on gear that any untrained person can use.

Doesn't Heroes Unlimited (2E) have prices? I just looked only scholastic skills one might learn in college, but its a start.

I never did understand why, if they were rare as described, the price was so low. With a price that low you'd think they would be plentiful or something...

Not necessarily. They may be cheap to produce. Demand may not be there really either, so retailers might have to slash prices to sell them. Cost wise the damage of a ramjet round for MD may not be most cost effective means.

[Alrik Vas]

flatline, I thought plasma cartridges were bolts, not beams.

[Library Ogre]

I'm wondering what the credit to MD ratio is, both in terms of damage and capacity.

[flatline]

flatline, I thought plasma cartridges were bolts, not beams.

A bolt is an abbreviated beam. I have issues with the idea of shooting hot gas more than a few meters.

-flatline

[Killer Cyborg]

flatline, I thought plasma cartridges were bolts, not beams.

A bolt is an abbreviated beam. I have issues with the idea of shooting hot gas more than a few meters.

-flatline

Don't get near me on taco night.

[dragonfett]

I had made a chart up a while back discussing the average cost per point of damage dealt for a selection of weapons.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Let me know if anyone has problems viewing it.

[Alrik Vas]

flatline, I thought plasma cartridges were bolts, not beams.

A bolt is an abbreviated beam. I have issues with the idea of shooting hot gas more than a few meters.

-flatline

KC beat me to it.

but...I run it that the whole round travels to the target and detonates on impact, delivering the damage.

clearly that isn't how its done, but I prefer it like that.

[flatline]

flatline, I thought plasma cartridges were bolts, not beams.

A bolt is an abbreviated beam. I have issues with the idea of shooting hot gas more than a few meters.

-flatline

KC beat me to it.

but...I run it that the whole round travels to the target and detonates on impact, delivering the damage.

clearly that isn't how its done, but I prefer it like that.

That's how I handle Naruni weapons, but that's easy since they already consume ammo. Converting plasma weapons that use e-clips or are part of power armor require a less straight forward conversion.

--flatline

[kaid]

One thing for this discussion I have to assume we are mostly talking about tech weapons/armor? Really the cheapest MDC/weapons in the entire rifts system is probably jungle elf/lemurian biomancy.

Most magic types that have an armor of ithan type spell it is a temporary force field that goes away after its duration expires. Biomancers have options that work in a similar way but actually make a physical armor that is permanent. This is not even their more advanced constructions this is simply one of their spells they can cast and it is an inexpensive PPE wise spell to cast.

Likewise they can make a MDC capable weapon that anybody can use to do MDC even those who are not magic users themselves in short period of time for a moderate PPE cost and those weapons are permanent.

Ecowizards would probably be the next cheapest but the biomancers don't even need to kill anything or remove any resource to make their items. Everything they do has no destructive impact on the things contributing to the armor/weapons and so can be reused for it over and over and over again so there is literally no cost but PPE involved.

[kaid]

flatline, I thought plasma cartridges were bolts, not beams.

A bolt is an abbreviated beam. I have issues with the idea of shooting hot gas more than a few meters.

-flatline

KC beat me to it.

but...I run it that the whole round travels to the target and detonates on impact, delivering the damage.

clearly that isn't how its done, but I prefer it like that.

Well technically a plasma discharge like this would likely moving near the speed of light so even though the pulse would last for an eyeblink or less it should be able to travel very far in that time period. It is not like opening the can of a gas grenade but more like a stroke of lightning.

[flatline]

flatline, I thought plasma cartridges were bolts, not beams.

A bolt is an abbreviated beam. I have issues with the idea of shooting hot gas more than a few meters.

-flatline

KC beat me to it.

but...I run it that the whole round travels to the target and detonates on impact, delivering the damage.

clearly that isn't how its done, but I prefer it like that.

Well technically a plasma discharge like this would likely moving near the speed of light so even though the pulse would last for an eyeblink or less it should be able to travel very far in that time period. It is not like opening the can of a gas grenade but more like a stroke of lightning.

No, if it's moving at relativistic speeds, then it's a particle beam, not a plasma.

--flatline

[kaid]

Speaking of plasma weapons though the odd thing is I am not really sure in practice if anybody would be able to tell the difference between an ion based weapon and a plasma beam because the mechanisms to produce both effects likely would be extremely similar.

Edit

I did find this as a real world attempt at plasma weaponry.

MARAUDER for the SDI effort between 1989 and 1995. The idea appears to have been to create compact toroids of high-density plasma that would be ejected from the device using a massive magnetic pulse.[2] The plasma projectiles would be shot at a speed expected to be 3000 km/s in 1995 and 10,000 km/s (3% of the speed of light) by 2000. A shot has the energy of 5 pounds of TNT exploding;

Apparently the proof of concept worked but they had trouble maintaining the magnetic fields at the ranges that would be necessary for it to be a useful orbital weapon.

So something like that is different an interesting idea basically sending a big magnetic pulse containing the plasma to its target.

[Library Ogre]

I had made a chart up a while back discussing the average cost per point of damage dealt for a selection of weapons.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Let me know if anyone has problems viewing it.

More or less what I wanted to see... but a comprehensive list, plus cost per MDC for armor? Gold.

[Library Ogre]

MARAUDER for the SDI effort between 1989 and 1995. The idea appears to have been to create compact toroids of high-density plasma that would be ejected from the device using a massive magnetic pulse.[2] The plasma projectiles would be shot at a speed expected to be 3000 km/s in 1995 and 10,000 km/s (3% of the speed of light) by 2000. A shot has the energy of 5 pounds of TNT exploding;

More or less the concept behind Star Wars blasters, as I understand it.

[glitterboy2098]

there was a lot of research into directed energy weapons at the time. look up Casaba Howitzers, you'll not know here to laugh or be scared stiff.

laser's were their preferred method because they understood them pretty well by then, but the methods to generate them were so bulky it wasn't viable to make weapon strength ones. a lot of the research into lasers they did back then is finally finding application with the new laser weapons the navy is getting ready to deploy.

[Library Ogre]

there was a lot of research into directed energy weapons at the time. look up Casaba Howitzers, you'll not know here to laugh or be scared stiff.

laser's were their preferred method because they understood them pretty well by then, but the methods to generate them were so bulky it wasn't viable to make weapon strength ones. a lot of the research into lasers they did back then is finally finding application with the new laser weapons the navy is getting ready to deploy.

It would take a Real Genius to develop a portable laser weapon in the 80s.

[Mack]

Stepping back to the OP for a sec... another cheap MD weapon is the Big Bore series from New West. The pistol costs 6,500 credits, the rounds are as low as 70 credits, and inflicts 1D6 MD.

Low damage, but it's a great "entry-level this is all I can afford" MD weapon.

[flatline]

Stepping back to the OP for a sec... another cheap MD weapon is the Big Bore series from New West. The pistol costs 6,500 credits, the rounds are as low as 70 credits, and inflicts 1D6 MD.

Low damage, but it's a great "entry-level this is all I can afford" MD weapon.

I have philosophical issues with Big Bore weapons. I'd much prefer an $800 shotgun and some $20 APRJ rounds which do 2d6MD.

--flatline

[Mechghost]

Stepping back to the OP for a sec... another cheap MD weapon is the Big Bore series from New West. The pistol costs 6,500 credits, the rounds are as low as 70 credits, and inflicts 1D6 MD.

Low damage, but it's a great "entry-level this is all I can afford" MD weapon.

I have philosophical issues with Big Bore weapons. I'd much prefer an $800 shotgun and some $20 APRJ rounds which do 2d6MD.

--flatline

but you also have the "knockdown effect" from the BBs to consider. One of my chars uses one just for that reason.

[Killer Cyborg]

Stepping back to the OP for a sec... another cheap MD weapon is the Big Bore series from New West. The pistol costs 6,500 credits, the rounds are as low as 70 credits, and inflicts 1D6 MD.

Low damage, but it's a great "entry-level this is all I can afford" MD weapon.

I have philosophical issues with Big Bore weapons. I'd much prefer an $800 shotgun and some $20 APRJ rounds which do 2d6MD.

--flatline

but you also have the "knockdown effect" from the BBs to consider. One of my chars uses one just for that reason.

If his philosophical issues with Big Bore weapons are anything like my own, then the Knockdown Effect is specifically a reason to dislike the weapons.

Spoiler:

Because it's just stupid.

[Blue_Lion]

I always assumed that plasma beam weapons are using a carrier wave of some type to contain the plasma in a energy field for the travel time or until it srikes something.(possible magnetic projection tech that we do not have.)

The nurni bullet mine is more of a plasma explosion not a plasma beam. (To me it seams there has to be more to the nurni bullet weapons than just a tube. Sudden release of super heated gasses are but it would take more than that to make a beam.)

(I do not see why you think that a plasma weapon has to move slow to be a plasma weapon. I think the defining factor of a plasma weapon in rifts is how it does the damage not the speed.)

Cheapest MD armor I think comes from either the millennium tree or hides of MDC creatures you hunt for food. as neither of these are normally paid for.

[Alrik Vas]

I just give anything that uses HE a knockdown effect. makes big bore useless like it should be.

[kaid]

Stepping back to the OP for a sec... another cheap MD weapon is the Big Bore series from New West. The pistol costs 6,500 credits, the rounds are as low as 70 credits, and inflicts 1D6 MD.

Low damage, but it's a great "entry-level this is all I can afford" MD weapon.

The black market adds more to that line. One of the options which looks like a single shot pirate blunderbuss the gun itself is actually given away if you buy a box of the ammo. Not an amazing weapon but had to beat the price.

[Blue_Lion]

I always assumed that plasma beam weapons are using a carrier wave of some type to contain the plasma in a energy field for the travel time or until it srikes something.(possible magnetic projection tech that we do not have.)

The nurni bullet mine is more of a plasma explosion not a plasma beam. (To me it seams there has to be more to the nurni bullet weapons than just a tube. Sudden release of super heated gasses are but it would take more than that to make a beam although it could be more of a glob contained some how for a short amount of time while it speeding down range.)

(I do not see why you think that a plasma weapon has to move slow to be a plasma weapon. I think the defining factor of a plasma weapon in rifts is how it does the damage not the speed.)

Cheapest MD armor I think comes from either the millennium tree or hides of MDC creatures you hunt for food. as neither of these are normally paid for.

[kaid]

I always assumed that plasma beam weapons are using a carrier wave of some type to contain the plasma in a energy field for the travel time or until it srikes something.(possible magnetic projection tech that we do not have.)

The nurni bullet mine is more of a plasma explosion not a plasma beam. (To me it seams there has to be more to the nurni bullet weapons than just a tube. Sudden release of super heated gasses are but it would take more than that to make a beam although it could be more of a glob contained some how for a short amount of time while it speeding down range.)

(I do not see why you think that a plasma weapon has to move slow to be a plasma weapon. I think the defining factor of a plasma weapon in rifts is how it does the damage not the speed.)

Cheapest MD armor I think comes from either the millennium tree or hides of MDC creatures you hunt for food. as neither of these are normally paid for.

Yup cost pretty much almost guarantees you would be talking about tech items because if you go with hodge podge armor and millennium, native american fetishes, biomancy items those are all effectively free.

[Tor]

http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2641373#p2641373
Light Tactical Armor (MO, 109)
Bought Used (RGMG, 202).
MDC: 4
Cost: 3,500

That reminds me, there was some shops in Vampire Kingdoms that sold MDC armor with half the MDC (I assume damaged so you could repair manually, but not sure, could be permanent loss) for half the normal price.

What is MO? Mutants in Orbit? Brain not working today...

Long Bow (Cost ?)
1 arrow tipped with Naruni Plasma Derringer Rounds (which detonate on impact: 5d6 MD). Cost: CR 20

Pretty sure the Derringer rounds from Dimension Book 3 are priced in Three Galaxies Credits, not Rifts ones. Not having been in Mercs I'm not sure it was even available in North America or even Earth. Kind of like other stuff they made like the Ovoid Combat Robot.

Also where does it talk about being able to cap arrows with naruni bullets? I don't know what the cost of that would be since it wouldn't just be arrow+bullet, you would also need someone skilled at attaching them into something shootable.

Plus I think "impact" has some flexibility here. Obviously not any impact would do it or loading the rounds would make them explode since however gently, putting your hands on the bullet is an 'impact' of a minor degree.

We know the MDC gun impacts the rounds hard enough to make them explode, and that the weight of a person stepping on them (possibly with some kind of stabbing device to concentrate the pressure) can do it, but I'm not sure that throwing a bullet or even shooting it with an arrow would be strong enough.

Cheapest way is to Steal/find it.

Yes but we can't make easy comparisons that way.

Another thing to consider is MDC per credit. Some suits may be more cost effective than others, especially if they come with perks. Just looking at the cost can skew things.

True, but I'm more thinking of what the bare bones are for considering the number of people who could be capable of being immune to SDC attacks or able to insta-kill most SDC opponents.

I think the problem here is that outside of grenades using Eclips, Ramjets, or other methods (CFT cartridge, Plasma Cartridge, etc) they are not directly comparable since damage isn't the same, nor is the payload. So to really compare one would have to look at the cost per shot, plus factor in damage per shot.

They are directly comparable if what we are considering is a universal unskilled assassination ability for bare-bottom prices. Payload doesn't matter if 1 attack is all it takes (assuming no miss).

The cheapest way to inflict MD is to steal/find a MD capable item.

I can't put a credit price on the efforts needed to do either of these so I am only looking at market prices here. Too many intangibles otherwise. Random vagabonds managing to 'find' a sword of Atlantis stuck in a toilet or whatever.

Doesn't Heroes Unlimited (2E) have prices? I just looked only scholastic skills one might learn in college, but its a start.

I mentioned this earlier in the thread but it's dollars, not credits, and education like this may not be widely acceptable in many places in Rifts so it may be worth just ignoring it.

Not necessarily. They may be cheap to produce. Demand may not be there really either, so retailers might have to slash prices to sell them. Cost wise the damage of a ramjet round for MD may not be most cost effective means.

Considering the low cost of SDC guns, I can't realistically see the demand for these rounds being low. These rounds are incredibly cost-effective IMO. Propose any other guns to compete?

One thing for this discussion I have to assume we are mostly talking about tech weapons/armor? Really the cheapest MDC/weapons in the entire rifts system is probably jungle elf/lemurian biomancy.

We don't know how much it costs to buy one of these, just that Biomancers can apparently make unlimited amounts at no cost so long as they're near a forest/swamp and have enough PPE.

The cost I think would be high because they would not want to give these out to nature-spoilers. It's like how millenium leaf armor could theoretically be worn free everywhere but the tree is selective in how they're given out.

Most magic types that have an armor of ithan type spell it is a temporary force field that goes away after its duration expires. Biomancers have options that work in a similar way but actually make a physical armor that is permanent. This is not even their more advanced constructions this is simply one of their spells they can cast and it is an inexpensive PPE wise spell to cast.

Likewise they can make a MDC capable weapon that anybody can use to do MDC even those who are not magic users themselves in short period of time for a moderate PPE cost and those weapons are permanent.

Ecowizards would probably be the next cheapest but the biomancers don't even need to kill anything or remove any resource to make their items. Everything they do has no destructive impact on the things contributing to the armor/weapons and so can be reused for it over and over and over again so there is literally no cost but PPE involved.

I'm more thinking about stuff the common person could obtain though, not things a small number could make for themselves or close friends.

If we look at the going cost for some magical guilds to cast a spell for you, getting a mage to enchant you with AoI is actually kind of expensive.

We need a credit amount assigned to something to do a cost comparison, no "I RP to get it for free" because that is not quantified.

Stepping back to the OP for a sec... another cheap MD weapon is the Big Bore series from New West. The pistol costs 6,500 credits, the rounds are as low as 70 credits, and inflicts 1D6 MD.

Low damage, but it's a great "entry-level this is all I can afford" MD weapon.

Pretty decent compared to most energy guns, agreed. Although the initial cost of weapons offsets the cheapness of ammo in regards to bare-bottom pricing for 'that threatening kamikaze vagabond hobo avenging his pet stray cat you stepped on with your GB followed you into the bar that doesn't allow power armor' factor.

cost pretty much almost guarantees you would be talking about tech items because if you go with hodge podge armor and millennium, native american fetishes, biomancy items those are all effectively free.

Naw, we have costs given for a lot of magic stuff like TW or mystic herbology items or Scathach or Kuznya constructions.

I'm sure if any old person could just buy millenium armor or fetishes or biomancy that these would have very high black market costs assigned to them.

That they aren't given any speaks for their ridiculous rarity, it's so hard to get them that the author doesn't even bother putting a price.

One can't put a price on the time / effort needed to ingratiate yourselves to these people. At best you can blackmail them by poisoning their children and offer the remedy in exchange for their weapon, but I don't know how to put a price on that. Might be a good way to someone in the black market to make a quick buck by offering some unique gear, but consequences will never be the same.

The issue here is that credit costs bypass hassle, RPing to get stuff (be it gift or theft) is hassle we would have to BS credi equiv costs in time labor for.

[Killer Cyborg]

http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2641373#p2641373
Light Tactical Armor (MO, 109)
Bought Used (RGMG, 202).
MDC: 4
Cost: 3,500

That reminds me, there was some shops in Vampire Kingdoms that sold MDC armor with half the MDC (I assume damaged so you could repair manually, but not sure, could be permanent loss) for half the normal price.

What is MO? Mutants in Orbit? Brain not working today...

Merc Ops.

Long Bow (Cost ?)
1 arrow tipped with Naruni Plasma Derringer Rounds (which detonate on impact: 5d6 MD). Cost: CR 20

Pretty sure the Derringer rounds from Dimension Book 3 are priced in Three Galaxies Credits, not Rifts ones. Not having been in Mercs I'm not sure it was even available in North America or even Earth. Kind of like other stuff they made like the Ovoid Combat Robot.

IIRC, I pulled it from the RGMG. It was definitely from a Rifts Earth source, though, because I don't read through the Three Galaxies stuff.

Also where does it talk about being able to cap arrows with naruni bullets? I don't know what the cost of that would be since it wouldn't just be arrow+bullet, you would also need someone skilled at attaching them into something shootable.

What you'd need is a powerhead.
And yeah, there'd be a bit more cost than just arrow+ammo, but not a lot.
Or, yes, somebody with the right skills to jury-rig something would also work.

Plus I think "impact" has some flexibility here. Obviously not any impact would do it or loading the rounds would make them explode since however gently, putting your hands on the bullet is an 'impact' of a minor degree.

I'd say that an arrow would have more applicable force than a footstep in this case.
But, again, the Naruni Bullet Mine indicates that it works just like a normal bullet, and powerheads work just fine with normal bullets.

[glitterboy2098]

or one of these:

http://www.gizmag.com/field-tip-archery-bow-mag/27938/

[Tor]

http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2641373#p2641373
Light Tactical Armor (MO, 109)
Bought Used (RGMG, 202).
MDC: 4
Cost: 3,500

Just noticed the URL, 5000 cred challenge, looks interesting.

Also noticed you had a good thread in 2013 about MD via rocks: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=138442 although concerns like the cost of lifting/transporting the rock could crop up...

Some other good threads:
May 2009 cheapest MDC pistol/rifle viewtopic.php?f=8&t=103482

Dec 2009 cheapest bang 4 ur Buck viewtopic.php?f=8&t=110541

I notice that your RGMG reduction only reduced the 5k price to 3.5K. This is only a 30% reduction. I think we might possibly be able to do better than "used" here.

New West page 179 mentions that battered/non-enviro armor (although this may not apply to the Light Tactical since it may only be for enviro armor that loses its enviro) could cost 1/2 the price and lose 30 % of MDC.

The best reduction is I think store 87 on page 89 of Vampire Kingdoms. 1/2 the MDC and you save 60%. So 40% of 5000 creds would be 2000 creds for a suit with 3 MDC.

It's too bad the home-made armor (Canada 191 and Warlords 173) and AZchainmail (Mindwerks 94) only goes as low as 8000 as a base. Your 5000 find of Light Tactical seems to be the best Baseline.

I did notice in terms of environmental protection (which could be its own category) that the 10 000 cred Spacer suit with 20 MDC beats out the 15 000 cred wetsuit with 25 MDC which beat out the 18 000 cred plastic-man suit with 35 MDC.

[HarleeKnight]

I never understood using vibro-weapons in traps, for two reasons...
1. Don't they hum, thereby, giving away their position?
2. Don't they need a power source, not measurable in game terms, but still a power source is needed? And if they do, isn't it finite?

[Nightmask]

I never understood using vibro-weapons in traps, for two reasons...
1. Don't they hum, thereby, giving away their position?
2. Don't they need a power source, not measurable in game terms, but still a power source is needed? And if they do, isn't it finite?

I can't remember where it's at but I remember seeing that vibro-blades have a mini-E-clip that powers them and they definitely have a finite source, something like 12hrs or maybe 24hrs max of power before they stop working.

[Alrik Vas]

if part of the trap arms the blades, that would be a solution, right?

[HarleeKnight]

if part of the trap arms the blades, that would be a solution, right?

Adding yet another complexity to the trap. It just seems really impractical to me.

[Alrik Vas]

I suppose, but it doesn't seem difficult. like, 5% penalty if your GM even thinks it's a big deal. /shrug

[Tor]

I can't remember where it's at but I remember seeing that vibro-blades have a mini-E-clip that powers them and they definitely have a finite source, something like 12hrs or maybe 24hrs max of power before they stop working.

If you can't remember where, is it possible it might be from a non-canon source like a Rifter or fan web creation?

I would love to find this, would make notes. Would be nice to know how it compares to other MD clip-powered weapons like Kittani plasma sword or Wilk's laser sword.

[Shark_Force]

I suppose, but it doesn't seem difficult. like, 5% penalty if your GM even thinks it's a big deal. /shrug

depends what you're working with.

if you've got a few bits of twine and some twigs to work with as your mechanism, even relatively simple traps can be pretty unreliable. add in having to make your primitive trap components act as a human hand by operating even a relatively simple safety device (i think we can all agree that you want to have some sort of protection against a random tree branch turning your vibro-knife on while it's in a sheathe attached to your leg and right next to some fairly major arteries from accidentally turning on when it can chop through trees and cinderblocks with ease). and i could definitely see that dramatically increasing the difficulty.

on the other hand, if you are making a trap with electrical components already included, i could see it being pretty simple to just integrate them into the vibro-blade's circuit, if you have the appropriate skills.

[Alrik Vas]

you're absolutely right, but the game rules can't always be at the mercy of real life. though it's nice to think it could be. /wistful