Dinosaur Swamp: The New Atlantis

[H.P. Hovercraft]

Pg 72 of WB 26: Dinosaur Swamp says, "To hear the locals talk, more Atlanteans are found in Dinosaur Swamp than anywhere on Earth. A claim most outsiders scoff at - but they'd be wrong."

So, according to the book, DS has more True Atlanteans than anywhere else on Earth?

The city of Manoa has a population of 50,000 Atlanteans within it's borders, so Dinosaur Swamp has at least a population of 50,001!!!

What does this mean for the future? A resurgence of TA culture in the DS area to act as a buffer zone between the Splugies and humanity? A staging point to gather strength before attempting to oust the Splugorth from their ancestral homeland? What?

[Killer Cyborg]

Nah. They all just went there for retirement.

[kaid]

Pg 72 of WB 26: Dinosaur Swamp says, "To hear the locals talk, more Atlanteans are found in Dinosaur Swamp than anywhere on Earth. A claim most outsiders scoff at - but they'd be wrong."

So, according to the book, DS has more True Atlanteans than anywhere else on Earth?

The city of Manoa has a population of 50,000 Atlanteans within it's borders, so Dinosaur Swamp has at least a population of 50,001!!!

What does this mean for the future? A resurgence of TA culture in the DS area to act as a buffer zone between the Splugies and humanity? A staging point to gather strength before attempting to oust the Splugorth from their ancestral homeland? What?

It would be pretty easy to believe they have at least that number. The dinoswamp area covers a pretty huge part of the country and 50 thousand people is one moderate sized city in that whole area or a handful of smaller towns. It makes sense given the proximity to atlantis you would find a fairly sizable atlantean population. I would imagine there is a pretty big contingent of them that want to reclaim their homeland.

[flatline]

Wait, is it talking about True Atlanteans or Splugorth minions?

--flatline

[kaid]

True atlanteans. It talks about them staging there in the dinosaur swamp area. Which makes sense if they are trying to stage enough folks to get a good look at the feasibility of retaking their homeland and or sticking forks in various splugorth eyes.

[Mack]

Hmm... 50,000 True Atlanteans spread across Dino Swamp (NC, SC, GA, and half of FL) works out to 1 person for every 3.5 square miles.

When I started that little math exercise I thought it would be worse than that.

[Alrik Vas]

1 person every 3.5 square miles...makes an easy treat for Mr. Raptor.

[kaid]

1 person every 3.5 square miles...makes an easy treat for Mr. Raptor.

Well one must assume most of that population is basing out of one or more likely a handful of settlements. That said undead hunters are probably some of the best equiped to exist and thrive in a place like the dino swamp by themselves or in small groups.

[FatherMorpheus]

Regardless of the fact there is the chance that the writer forgot about the SA mention of 50,000 True Atlanteans living in Manoa. I think it would be kind of cool to have a stone master built city of 35,000 to 65,000 True Atanteans living in the Dino Swamps. Especially if it was Dinotopea style with the use of Dinos in every day things. It could be a surface like version of the Lemura.

I may just do a write up about this type of idea.

[H.P. Hovercraft]

Regardless of the fact there is the chance that the writer forgot about the SA mention of 50,000 True Atlanteans living in Manoa. I think it would be kind of cool to have a stone master built city of 35,000 to 65,000 True Atanteans living in the Dino Swamps. Especially if it was Dinotopea style with the use of Dinos in every day things. It could be a surface like version of the Lemura.

I may just do a write up about this type of idea.

I had a similar idea, but also (potentially) using the lost (Atlantean) City of the Ancients from Hades as a central base of operations.

[Todd Yoho]

I don't ever remember owning the South America books because I thought they were an uber-cheesy mess, so I certainly didn't reference them for writing DS.

I'd have to go back to my original manuscript to see if I wrote that or if it was an editorial insert, but it reads like my verbiage and intent. DS was intended to be a launching pad for True Atlanteans to make strikes against Splynncryth and set up bases of operation from which to try and take back their homeland ala the UK prior to D-Day.

But that was also, what, over a decade ago when I wrote that, so going by my memory probably isn't the best idea ever!

[ShadowLogan]

Well there is a writeup for one such community in Dino. Swamp of TAs. Its very small (a few hundred people) and they are IIRC in the ruins of Atlanta.

Manoa though is only one clan IIRC, so population wise it might be bigger than Dino Swamp, but dino swamp might have a greater diversity of clans being present.

[glitterboy2098]

guys.. "To hear the locals talk" means rumor, gossip, etc. and just because people scoff at rumor when it's actually true doesn't mean the exact rumor is true.
it's basically saying "there are a lot more True Atlanteans there than people are willing to believe"

[Mack]

guys.. "To hear the locals talk" means rumor, gossip, etc. and just because people scoff at rumor when it's actually true doesn't mean the exact rumor is true.
it's basically saying "there are a lot more True Atlanteans there than people are willing to believe"

I started to say the same thing, but you have to consider the second sentence: "A claim most outsiders scoff at - but they'd be wrong." (Emphasis added.) There's a canon statement that scoffing at the claim is wrong. Thus is locals are actually right.

[glitterboy2098]

but does that mean the claim is right? or does it just mean that it's wrong to scoff at the rumor? the phrasing is more in favor of the latter interpritation.

and just because it's wrong to scoff at the rumor doesn't mean the rumor is 100% true.

[Trooper Jim]

Nah. They all just went there for retirement.

I just shot coffee out of my nose!!!

[Subjugator]

I'd say Mack has the right of it for it being a canonical statement...however...

The population density is greater than that which was quoted...it's MORE than Manoa, not equal to Manoa.

Also, given that the folks hanging in the swamp are unlikely to be those with HTH: Nothing, I'm betting they start around level 4 and go up from there.

Verrrry interesting!

[eliakon]

I'd say Mack has the right of it for it being a canonical statement...however...

The population density is greater than that which was quoted...it's MORE than Manoa, not equal to Manoa.

No, the total population is greater. Over a much larger area.....so the population density should be lower......

After all the entire Dinosaur Swamp has more Atlantians than anyplace else on earth.....so the whole area out does Manoa area. Its not saying its as densely populated as the city of Manoa

Also, given that the folks hanging in the swamp are unlikely to be those with HTH: Nothing, I'm betting they start around level 4 and go up from there.

people with H2H skills can be level 1-3......

[Subjugator]

I'd say Mack has the right of it for it being a canonical statement...however...

The population density is greater than that which was quoted...it's MORE than Manoa, not equal to Manoa.

No, the total population is greater. Over a much larger area.....so the population density should be lower......

I was referring to the population density, and note that I didn't say it would be a higher population density than Manoa. I said it would be a higher population density than that which was quoted. I spoke unclearly with the word 'it' though...for 'it' I mean the number of True Atlanteans (in raw numbers, not density).

Hmm... 50,000 True Atlanteans spread across Dino Swamp (NC, SC, GA, and half of FL) works out to 1 person for every 3.5 square miles.

So he quoted a population density of 3.5 per square mile based upon a certain number of square miles for NC, SC, GA, and half of FL. Assuming his numbers for the area of each and calculation are accurate, the population density would be higher than whatever his calculation results were, because there are more True Atlanteans in the Dino Swamp than in Manoa, and he based it on a number equal to that of Manoa.

Also, given that the folks hanging in the swamp are unlikely to be those with HTH: Nothing, I'm betting they start around level 4 and go up from there.

people with H2H skills can be level 1-3......[/quote]

Yes. My point was that they're likely to be experienced folks and not non-combatants.

/Sub

[eliakon]

Also, given that the folks hanging in the swamp are unlikely to be those with HTH: Nothing, I'm betting they start around level 4 and go up from there.

people with H2H skills can be level 1-3......

Yes. My point was that they're likely to be experienced folks and not non-combatants.

/Sub[/quote]
Why? Why would we assume that they have a high percentage of experienced folks and non-combatants? The people of Char live in the swamp, they do not all have H2H skills, high levels and most of them would be non-combatants....ditto in fact with the Atlantian populations where we actually see them.....why should we assume that this particular population is unlike any other population of people on rifts earth?

[Subjugator]

Why? Why would we assume that they have a high percentage of experienced folks and non-combatants? The people of Char live in the swamp, they do not all have H2H skills, high levels and most of them would be non-combatants....ditto in fact with the Atlantian populations where we actually see them.....why should we assume that this particular population is unlike any other population of people on rifts earth?

People who gather to do war are not likely to be non-combatants.

/Sub

[eliakon]

Why? Why would we assume that they have a high percentage of experienced folks and non-combatants? The people of Char live in the swamp, they do not all have H2H skills, high levels and most of them would be non-combatants....ditto in fact with the Atlantian populations where we actually see them.....why should we assume that this particular population is unlike any other population of people on rifts earth?

People who gather to do war are not likely to be non-combatants.

/Sub

Well......it would be an interesting GM house rule to make it a war party (and yes, the author has stated that was his idea when he wrote it....but that was never put in the books, so its not canon). There is nothing official though to make it that way....

[H.P. Hovercraft]

Why? Why would we assume that they have a high percentage of experienced folks and non-combatants? The people of Char live in the swamp, they do not all have H2H skills, high levels and most of them would be non-combatants....ditto in fact with the Atlantian populations where we actually see them.....why should we assume that this particular population is unlike any other population of people on rifts earth?

People who gather to do war are not likely to be non-combatants.

/Sub

Well......it would be an interesting GM house rule to make it a war party (and yes, the author has stated that was his idea when he wrote it....but that was never put in the books, so its not canon). There is nothing official though to make it that way....

It wouldn't be a "house rule." It would be a "campaign idea."

[Subjugator]

I thought it was explicitly noted in the books.

[eliakon]

I thought it was explicitly noted in the books.

Nope, just the mention of the huge number. The part where this was supposed to be a pre-operational build up never got in the book.

[Satan Lord of Hell]

There is a small group of True Atlantean freedom fighters (The Eleytherian) who have, with some amount of irony, made a base in the ruins of Atlanta.

[eliakon]

There is a small group of True Atlantean freedom fighters (The Eleytherian) who have, with some amount of irony, made a base in the ruins of Atlanta.

Yeah....but a small group of freedom fighters is not anything close to "more than 50,000". Let alone "more than fifty thousand combatants....."

[RiftJunkie]

While the whole "D-Day Invasion Build-up" sounds cool, why Dino Swamp? They are Dimensional hoppers. Wouldn't build-ups likely be around Stone Pyramids at various locations and/or dimensions. They can coordinate to rift into multiple strategic locations at the same time. Resupply/reinforce anywhere at anytime? The setting of Rifts really limits the effectiveness of an all-out direct frontal assault. Even a tech only nation like the Coalition can't or won't take that chance. Just look at the NGR/CS/New Navy mega-assault on the Gargoyles. Why would the True Atlanteans?

[H.P. Hovercraft]

I thought it was explicitly noted in the books.

Nope, just the mention of the huge number. The part where this was supposed to be a pre-operational build up never got in the book.

Yeah, the reason for them being there isn't explicitly stated............the idea of an invasion force is only theorized[i] by those who know of their existence.[/i]

[glitterboy2098]

i'd assume that Splynncryth probably watches dimensional entries very closely.. but simple non-magical boats landing on the coast are more easily hidden. the florida group would be a staging base for sneaking scouting groups onto and off Atlantis.
the swamp is poorly known by outside groups, and all the dimensional stuff going on there would easily hide rift and portal activity the TA's use to move to their off-earth main base.