Practical TW

[Nox Equites]

Any mystical community could use TW for things other than weapons and armor. Imagine a desert village that has TW water fountains or using an TK engine to pump water from the wells. Irrigation could be very easy with the right TW gear. With the water blasters you have the ability to fill cisterns at an incredible rate. 20, 30, 50 gallons at a time with 20 shots will top off the water tower pretty quick. It would be expensive, but imagine the dumpster enchanted to cast create steel with the sort option. If it is enchanted by a high level caster it could easily sort and refine a half ton of sdc metal. The RMB has a few different engines and power plants and suggested sizes of power plants. A factory could use the office building or small town size power plants, depending on power needs, and no pollution.

What other practical uses have you seen for TW items?

[Killer Cyborg]

One of our early Rifts adventures was tracking down the prototype for a secret TW device that had been stolen.

It turned out to be a toaster that used Time Slip and a number of other spells to always make perfect toast instantly.
You'd put the bread in, push down the thingy, and the toast would immediately pop back up, just the way you want it.

[Shark_Force]

the meal replacement (sustain) vending machine. turn it on, it mixes up a tasty milkshake fortified with several days worth of food, water, air, and 75% of your required sleep for that same time period

[Blue_Lion]

The orginal TW write up in orginal rifts book had several practicle devices that got left out.
IE. TW batteries that can power a device for months on 2 PPE. The TW generators from the same book could power a town for the cost of 1 lighting bolt spell every so often (a month if I recall)

Incorporating a TW circle of protection in the walls helps to reduce supernatural threats.

Cleanse for washing machines.
If the town is on or near a ley line they could use TW ley line devices for mass transport.
Water cleaning magic for sewage treatment.
If A TW can use globe of daylight spell to convert light sources in homes and from street lights they could keep vampires at bay, would not damage them but keep them out of town.
Working with the stone mage from Atlantis (cant remember the name) they could build construction/ mining tools to move earth.
Drawing power from a ley line was done in Tolkeen this powered the most of the city.

Magic and TW can tackle many every day jobs so the limits are you imagination.

[drewkitty ~..~]

The Black Vault book has the greatest collection of non-weapon TW stuff in published canon.

[taalismn]

Any early fan-brewed TW device I recall seeing, and wholly approving of, was a device that used the 'Stone to Flesh' spell to curse unloving stone to turn into edible meat. With a little tinkering, the spell-pot could be jiggered to produce perfectly palatable ground beef, turkey, or chicken(fish was taking some extra research).

[Riftmaker]

Water to wine nuff said

[taalismn]

Water to wine nuff said

I'd be satisfied with Water to Coffee, thank you.

[Svartalf]

Water to wine nuff said

I'd be satisfied with Water to Coffee, thank you.

That would be useful, I wonder what the people in the CS drink since coffee no longer arrives from Africa and South America...

[Blue_Lion]

Are people in rifts addicted to caffeine like we are? seams they are cut off from the major source.

So lets TW self brewing coffee pot. Spend 40 PPE to instantly get a pot of Hot coffee.
Spell chain-create water, water to wine, sustain, and create fire.
(makes water then transforms the water into a stimulate by combining Sustain and water to wine made hot by create fire spell.)
Black market sells these coffee pots for 75,000cr.

[Riftmaker]

Water to wine nuff said

I'd be satisfied with Water to Coffee, thank you.

That would be useful, I wonder what the people in the CS drink since coffee no longer arrives from Africa and South America...

humm Id assume some kind of artificial " not coffee" or they have some kind of trade with that human supremacist country in south america.

[Svartalf]

I doubt South America has thriving coffee plantations anymore... feed crops would have priority, and the world is no longer a market...

@ Blue Lion, I like your Idea, don't mind if I steal it.

[Blue_Lion]

If I post an idea like that it is for people to use.

[Shark_Force]

the CS does officially have some degree of communication with colombia, iirc. and i'm not sure i agree that colombia wouldn't be making coffee on a large scale... they certainly wouldn't be making enough coffee to export to the entire world, but with the levels of coffee consumption as they are, i very much doubt that coffee will be terribly far behind alcohol in terms of resources that are quick to be exploited once farming becomes a possibility (with the intervening years having people harvest wild coffee, where possible). most likely, someone in south america has at least been producing coffee enough for their own nation, and possibly for export to friendly neighbours (it might also be exported to the CS on a small scale by now, we haven't really gotten any sort of update on the CS/colombia situation in quite a while).

i wouldn't be super-surprised to discover the CS has limited coffee production either... it's not necessarily extremely likely, but i don't think it unreasonable to speculate that some lab in north america was trying to genemod coffee into being more productive, tasting better, having different levels of caffeine, etc. some seeds are able to last for centuries until they're planted, don't know if coffee in particular is, but it's a possibility (and also possible that some place in former USA was farming it so they could sell it as a "product of the USA" to patriotic americans - all you'd need is for those labs to manage to produce a variety of coffee that can thrive in local climates)

now, in north america at least it may very well still be a luxury item... but then again, it might not. hard to say.

[taalismn]

[

Now we all know the Cs enjoys a nice tart glass of beet juce

Prune Juice, actually...It's a Warrior's Drink.

[Mack]

TW food dehydrator that instills the Sustain spell. Creates beef jerky that when consumed grants 12 hours of the spell's effect. Great for traveling, or standing guard.

[Blue_Lion]

Are people in rifts addicted to caffeine like we are? seams they are cut off from the major source.

So lets TW self brewing coffee pot. Spend 40 PPE to instantly get a pot of Hot coffee.
Spell chain-create water, water to wine, sustain, and create fire.
(makes water then transforms the water into a stimulate by combining Sustain and water to wine made hot by create fire spell.)
Black market sells these coffee pots for 75,000cr.

It would have to siphon off a let line in my house or I would never have any PPE I'm not the only coffee drinker in the house but I am the only non muggle

Well it does not siphon off a ley line but the mage could. I could see the adventure now party is out exploring but has to stop at every ley line to have a cup of hot coffee.

I do not see the world of rifts being so Caffeine addicted. It is more likely that coffee is a expensive item that only the rich can afford to drink. Unlike alcohol which can be made with unused grains/starch coffee crops are not intended as food source. So with such a high threat factor food would be a priority with cash crops being a smaller side project of farms.

[Shark_Force]

what makes you say that? if the situation were so dire that nobody could spare the land and labour to grow coffee, there wouldn't be excess grains to be converted into alcohol either. by definition, if there is excess grain, the situation is not so dire that non-food crops are impossible to be grown.

the more they detail it, the less rifts looks post-apocalyptic, and the more it looks post-post-apocalyptic. there *was* an apocalypse. the world has in many ways recovered. i mean, obviously it's not a land of peace and tranquility or anything, but when has the world ever been that? go back through human history and you'll find it's one of war and conflict. now the war and conflict involves more non-human beings, and different tools are used, but really, there are large developed cities and nations, there are even a few places that have schools, factories, large farms, etc. the economy is not scavenger-based any more; most weapons and tools are not handed down from previous generations, they're made in a factory and bought by people using money, not barter. there is even trade across the oceans, which are regarded as being some of the most dangerous parts of the world with the fewest bastions of humanity in it to protect travellers.

there is nothing to suggest that the situation is so dire that cash crops can't be grown. so long as there is money in it, someone is almost assuredly doing it.

[Nightmask]

what makes you say that? if the situation were so dire that nobody could spare the land and labour to grow coffee, there wouldn't be excess grains to be converted into alcohol either. by definition, if there is excess grain, the situation is not so dire that non-food crops are impossible to be grown.

the more they detail it, the less rifts looks post-apocalyptic, and the more it looks post-post-apocalyptic. there *was* an apocalypse. the world has in many ways recovered. i mean, obviously it's not a land of peace and tranquility or anything, but when has the world ever been that? go back through human history and you'll find it's one of war and conflict. now the war and conflict involves more non-human beings, and different tools are used, but really, there are large developed cities and nations, there are even a few places that have schools, factories, large farms, etc. the economy is not scavenger-based any more; most weapons and tools are not handed down from previous generations, they're made in a factory and bought by people using money, not barter. there is even trade across the oceans, which are regarded as being some of the most dangerous parts of the world with the fewest bastions of humanity in it to protect travellers.

there is nothing to suggest that the situation is so dire that cash crops can't be grown. so long as there is money in it, someone is almost assuredly doing it.

Doesn't coffee tend to require growing conditions that are more difficult to manage compared to the average grain crop that can be used to create alcohol? It's probably easier to go the alcohol route as you can simply grow a fermentable crop and what's left over from the basic uses you use to run your still rather than having to dedicate land to a crop that ends up really only having one use and that a luxury use.

I do agree though that Rifts is post apocalypse in much the same fashion modern earth is post apocalypse from past societal collapses, as in it's over and done with and nation building and recovery is far along.

[Shark_Force]

- climates have changed in rifts. maybe there's an area in north america that's perfect for growing coffee.
- genetic modification is a thing. even if not that, simply crossbreeding plants to change the environments they can survive in is a thing. it's entirely possible someone made that happen leading up to the golden age.
- if that didn't happen, greenhouses and hydroponics are a thing. in fact, that's one of the main ways the CS produces food, as i understand it.
- the CS and colombia have some degree of communication. if that includes any trade, pretty much all colombia would have to offer that the CS could be interested in would be coffee, cocoa, and other luxury crops (the CS is apparently doing just fine for regular food, and let's face it their tech probably puts colombia to shame).

[wyrmraker]

Are people in rifts addicted to caffeine like we are? seams they are cut off from the major source.

So lets TW self brewing coffee pot. Spend 40 PPE to instantly get a pot of Hot coffee.
Spell chain-create water, water to wine, sustain, and create fire.
(makes water then transforms the water into a stimulate by combining Sustain and water to wine made hot by create fire spell.)
Black market sells these coffee pots for 75,000cr.

It would have to siphon off a let line in my house or I would never have any PPE I'm not the only coffee drinker in the house but I am the only non muggle

Well it does not siphon off a ley line but the mage could. I could see the adventure now party is out exploring but has to stop at every ley line to have a cup of hot coffee.

I do not see the world of rifts being so Caffeine addicted. It is more likely that coffee is a expensive item that only the rich can afford to drink. Unlike alcohol which can be made with unused grains/starch coffee crops are not intended as food source. So with such a high threat factor food would be a priority with cash crops being a smaller side project of farms.

As an interesting side note on the availability of caffeine, the New German Republic has a great many very inexpensive energy drinks (Triax 2, p.73). Clearly they are getting the caffeine from somewhere. Just saying.

[Svartalf]

probably via chemical synthesis

[Blue_Lion]

Caffeine is not the only stimulate that can be used to make energy drinks. It is often used currently because it is highly additive but with near golden age tech triax might have a better stimulate to use.

[wyrmraker]

probably via chemical synthesis

Probably. But that also addresses the fact that the more developed nations on Rifts Earth aren't as resource-dry as they might be considered. After all, if the NGR companies can afford to produce luxury foods and items on the scale hinted at in Triax 2, even in the middle of the Full Militarization initiative, then clearly the NGR isn't nearly as close to the end of itself as one might think.

And the same goes for the Coalition States. The main focus is on their pro-humanist militant perspective, but little attention is paid to how the average citizen lives. I could easily see quite a lot of comforts available to the average citizen (probably a bit less than the average NGR citizen, but still substantial), as well as some 'patriotic belt tightening' during the Tolkeen Campaign, much akin to what was happening in the US during WW2


And while Caffeine isn't the only stimulant available, Triax 2 specifically mentions it as one of the primary ingredients in their energy drink lines.

[Svartalf]

Otoh, it might just be fluff uttered ex colonica by somebody who did not think about where the coffee/caffeine might be coming from because they just think of our abundance society, not about the post apocalyptic land Rifts earth is.

[ShadowLogan]

back to the original topic.
TW
- Virtual Reality Simulations
- Cameras (IIRC there are a few already)
- Video (projectors, players, or recorders, spells should allow 3D walk a rounds)
- animatronics (w/right illusion spells they look real) for entertainment at amusement parks, "haunted houses", restaurants, etc
- camping gear (already some in Dinosaur Swamp Book IIRC) and out door survival tools
- Safes, Panic-Room, secret room (only "open" via the Mystic Portal, and being TW if it isn't energized there is less to give it away in terms of SN/magic, tech could still detect the voids but would be ignored possibly if there is no evidence of a door)
- snow removal (automated)
- fire fighting
- medical tools

As an interesting side note on the availability of caffeine, the New German Republic has a great many very inexpensive energy drinks (Triax 2, p.73). Clearly they are getting the caffeine from somewhere. Just saying.

Caffeine isn't restricted to coffee or coco beans, you can find it in plants in 6 out 7 continents. So a source of caffeine is possible w/o having to rely on imports. What you may need imports for though is if we are talking caffeine in a specific drink (like coffee) that is natural and not synthetic.

[Blue_Lion]

probably via chemical synthesis

Probably. But that also addresses the fact that the more developed nations on Rifts Earth aren't as resource-dry as they might be considered. After all, if the NGR companies can afford to produce luxury foods and items on the scale hinted at in Triax 2, even in the middle of the Full Militarization initiative, then clearly the NGR isn't nearly as close to the end of itself as one might think.

And the same goes for the Coalition States. The main focus is on their pro-humanist militant perspective, but little attention is paid to how the average citizen lives. I could easily see quite a lot of comforts available to the average citizen (probably a bit less than the average NGR citizen, but still substantial), as well as some 'patriotic belt tightening' during the Tolkeen Campaign, much akin to what was happening in the US during WW2


And while Caffeine isn't the only stimulant available, Triax 2 specifically mentions it as one of the primary ingredients in their energy drink lines.

They do talk about life in the super city in tales from the burbs short stories, did not strike me as the average person living high on the hog.

[taalismn]

The average person in the 'burbs has little enough that they want to be loyal enough to get more, but enough that they don't want to upset the applecart by threatening the system.
But yes, the majority of residents likely live off a good amount of synthesized swill named, but bearing scant resemblance to, familiar pre-Rifts products. The ELITE get increased access to the real kahuna when it comes to bean coffee and other luxury foodstuffs.
Chemical mimickry of natural foodtsuffs is alive and well in the CS(not that there ISN'T organic food available in the CS, but the CS chemical industry is as much a breadbasket as the indentured farmsteads and factory farms spread across CS territory).

[abe]

how about a skeleton animator tw device? ( you know just for fun)
or a illusion casting device? (to simulate a television)

[Mack]

A Cleanse scrubbing brush. For 60 seconds it'll clean away any dust/dirt/grime/etc.

[Killer Cyborg]

A Time-Slip e-reader, so you always have time to read.

[taalismn]

Air Elemental Leaf Rustler roomba- house cleaner.
Garden Golem security and yard maintenance statuary.
Quicksand doormat(for dealing with unwelcome solicitors)

[abe]

Quicksand doormat(for dealing with unwelcome solicitors)

or VERY bad swimmers/heavy people!

[Killer Cyborg]

River of Lava oven.

[taalismn]

Key to designing/producing sure-fire practical TW items are the following factors:
-Importance---Does the TW device accomplish a task of any importance to its market? Can that task be accomplished via technological means? Conjuring water, food, or medicine out of thin air is an impressive act that can be vital to communities without easy access to such resources, while a better toenail clipper or hair-cutter is more likely to be considered a luxury.
-Convenience--How easy is it to use? Would it be easier to use the TW device to get water on a regular basis, or would drilling a well be easier? Does the device use resources that are easy to come by in the area(such as a leyline or PPE batteries) or does its use require a continued investment(such as regular recharges from mages)?
-Scale---How much work can the item do in terms of quantity of material processed/rate at which it is processed, in comparison to alternative technological solutions?
-Economy---is the cost of assembling the item less expensive than a less complex technological one?

[taalismn]

River of Lava oven.

Well, now I know what Pele Pizzeria will be using to prepare their Pineapple Cheese Pie.

[Shark_Force]

Key to designing/producing sure-fire practical TW items are the following factors:
-Importance---Does the TW device accomplish a task of any importance to its market? Can that task be accomplished via technological means? Conjuring water, food, or medicine out of thin air is an impressive act that can be vital to communities without easy access to such resources, while a better toenail clipper or hair-cutter is more likely to be considered a luxury.
-Convenience--How easy is it to use? Would it be easier to use the TW device to get water on a regular basis, or would drilling a well be easier? Does the device use resources that are easy to come by in the area(such as a leyline or PPE batteries) or does its use require a continued investment(such as regular recharges from mages)?
-Scale---How much work can the item do in terms of quantity of material processed/rate at which it is processed, in comparison to alternative technological solutions?
-Economy---is the cost of assembling the item less expensive than a less complex technological one?

on a side note, sometimes that "continued investment" (regular recharges from mages) can be easier to come by than the alternative (e-clip recharger in a frontier town or for an adventuring group), making it actually more convenient

[ShadowLogan]

Does the device use resources that are easy to come by in the area(such as a leyline or PPE batteries) or does its use require a continued investment(such as regular recharges from mages)?

The hardest resource to come by for TW items would be the gems I would think (at least for RUE, RMB version may be different I forget off hand) since the other hardware aspect has to be related to what you want it to do. Eco-Wizard's might have it easier, I forget if they need gems or not, but they are essentially TW.

As for the PPE aspect:
-you could work in the "life source" spell so that any non-mage can use the device (TW Lightblade in RUE IIRC uses this)
-given that the Splurgoth use a self-recharging AoI Talisman (Blind Warrior Women use them), it may be possible to create a self-charging PPE Talisman. Per one of the PW dimension books, it would be possible (forget the class and book specifically, but IIRC one of the UWW classes can create Talismans like the BWW use, so...). Then again these aren't TW items, but closer to magic items
-go Bio-Wizard approach (Eye of Eylor, Zambalk ((sp?)), or Fairy), IIRC something like this is already done (Iron Juggernauts in SoT, TW Train in New West, maybe a few more) via constrain being and elementals
-create a device the captures the death PPE release (this requires a sacrifice to recharge) to charge the device (if Ley Lines aren't around and you have a good source for sacrifices, might be a good idea to have the endurance such that sacrifices aren't to closely spaced)

[drewkitty ~..~]

~ Yes, the life source spell could be used as a vampiric way to make PPE from the wielder's SDC&HP. Better would to add magic that mimics a mage's ability to draw PPE from others for the vampiric drawing of PPE from the wielder/user.

~The BWW AoI talisman are traditional magic items, NOT TW knock offs. It would take an alchemist to make such items. (For more examples of real magic items peruse the PF RPG books' equipment sections.)

~bio-wizardy.....not touching even with a 15' pole cause the options there are Evil.

~Death PPE....not touching cause the basic concept supporting the idea is evil.

~Create magic that syphons power out of LL/LLN or people with in a certain radius of the weapon till full. Course this would involve experience in making circle magic to accomplish.

[Shark_Force]

ummm... why is everyone going so crazy over a need for some alternate source of energy for TW devices?

psychics can use them too. and psychics are not exactly rare in the setting. not everyone is a psychic, but odds are extremely good that everyone knows someone who is psychic. unless your device consumes an absurd amount of energy, the psychic population of earth should be more than enough to keep most practical TW devices charged.

[Mack]

Here's an approach I've been toying with:
- Use Energy Sphere to make a PPE storage device (at 5th level it would hold 500 PPE for 10 days) and add power it off of a ley line. I envision this being the size/shape as a foot locker or small gas generator.
- Then use the Energy Sphere device to recharge all your other TW devices (would require each item to be modded with a "PPE charging cable")

With that approach, you only have to take the storage device to a ley line, and not every TW item. And with something like an NG Sky King, getting to/from a ley line can be pretty darned quick. Would be a decent option for a town located near, but not on top of, a ley line.

[ShadowLogan]

~ Yes, the life source spell could be used as a vampiric way to make PPE from the wielder's SDC&HP. Better would to add magic that mimics a mage's ability to draw PPE from others for the vampiric drawing of PPE from the wielder/user.

How would you do this with TWdry though Spell wise. Other than Life Source I can't think of a spell to do this. Yes its an ability of mages, but it may not be something that can work in TWdry (granted Ley Line devices show it can be done tapping another source albiet one that is highly concentrated). I know of a spell that does the reverse (puts the mages PPE into another), but unless you can find a way to "invert" the spell effects I'm not sure if this is really doable w/o the canon Life Source example.

The BWW AoI talisman are traditional magic items, NOT TW knock offs. It would take an alchemist to make such items. (For more examples of real magic items peruse the PF RPG books' equipment sections.)

I agree they are more magic item than TW, but they do show that it is possible to make a self-charging magic item. If an Alchemist can do it, I don't see why a TW couldn't do it (with the right spells) since TWdry is similar to Alchemist in end product (though Alchemist is more refined product).

~bio-wizardy.....not touching even with a 15' pole cause the options there are Evil.

~Death PPE....not touching cause the basic concept supporting the idea is evil.

While they can be seen as evil, that doesn't mean they can't be done or are actually evil.

The Bio-Wizard approach though HAS been done before w/TWdry, so it is an option that a community could do w/n canon.

The Death PPE might be more problematic and I can't think of precedent for it w/n TWdry, but it in itself is not evil. If a community has a source of meat, then they are killing animals for the food, so why not harness the PPE released while you are at it? The PPE release obviously doesn't destroy the carcas.

ummm... why is everyone going so crazy over a need for some alternate source of energy for TW devices?

Its a resources thing that taalismn brought up as the PPE fuel is a resource consideration in the design/construction. Psychics are certainly another option, but various sources of PPE do exist.

[Blue_Lion]

Here's an approach I've been toying with:
- Use Energy Sphere to make a PPE storage device (at 5th level it would hold 500 PPE for 10 days) and add power it off of a ley line. I envision this being the size/shape as a foot locker or small gas generator.
- Then use the Energy Sphere device to recharge all your other TW devices (would require each item to be modded with a "PPE charging cable")

With that approach, you only have to take the storage device to a ley line, and not every TW item. And with something like an NG Sky King, getting to/from a ley line can be pretty darned quick. Would be a decent option for a town located near, but not on top of, a ley line.

I have been toying with a TW PPE reactor, using special micro-organisms, sustain spell, a life drain spell and time spell (think it was time slip.) The idea being that it could power full on TW devices much like a nuclear reactor does normal tech. It works by keeping the micro-organism alive and constantly draining PPE from them. Sure they may only have .0001PPE each but when you have millions or billions of them to draw from it can get significant. I see this as the TW power source of choice in high end devices in place of the traditional nuclear reactor.

It does require a maintenance ritual every so often typically 1-7 years and cost for parts for it is rather high.

[drewkitty ~..~]

~ Yes, the life source spell could be used as a vampiric way to make PPE from the wielder's SDC&HP. Better would to add magic that mimics a mage's ability to draw PPE from others for the vampiric drawing of PPE from the wielder/user.

How would you do this with TWdry though Spell wise. Other than Life Source I can't think of a spell to do this. Yes its an ability of mages, but it may not be something that can work in TWdry (granted Ley Line devices show it can be done tapping another source albeit one that is highly concentrated). I know of a spell that does the reverse (puts the mages PPE into another), but unless you can find a way to "invert" the spell effects I'm not sure if this is really doable w/o the canon Life Source example.

The BWW AoI talisman are traditional magic items, NOT TW knock offs. It would take an alchemist to make such items. (For more examples of real magic items peruse the PF RPG books' equipment sections.)

I agree they are more magic item than TW, but they do show that it is possible to make a self-charging magic item. If an Alchemist can do it, I don't see why a TW couldn't do it (with the right spells) since TWdry is similar to Alchemist in end product (though Alchemist is more refined product).

~bio-wizardy.....not touching even with a 15' pole cause the options there are Evil.

~Death PPE....not touching cause the basic concept supporting the idea is evil.

While they can be seen as evil, that doesn't mean they can't be done or are actually evil.

The Bio-Wizard approach though HAS been done before w/TWdry, so it is an option that a community could do w/n canon.

...snip

Through the Glass Darkly Spell invention & Modification Text if you are insistent you need a distinct spell to use rather then just making a spell like power in the item. But it is easier to contemplate if it is an amalgamated device with the energy syphon being a magic item itself that feeds the TW part of the device's power storage.
example viewtopic.php?f=8&t=131655&p=2548448&hilit=The+White+Rabbit%27s+Watch#p2548448

Bio-wizard options are basically permanently torturing a sentient being. See fairy harvest text. So it is fairly easy to see that said methods are %$^*$^$%^& EVIL!
Death option...you are continually killing things just to power your guns. Duh killing so you can kill some-more.....EVIL!

Both are Evil!

ummm... why is everyone going so crazy over a need for some alternate source of energy for TW devices?

psychics can use them too. and psychics are not exactly rare in the setting. not everyone is a psychic, but odds are extremely good that everyone knows someone who is psychic. unless your device consumes an absurd amount of energy, the psychic population of earth should be more than enough to keep most practical TW devices charged.

Cause they want to munchkin out their favorate char that is a mundane to be able to use TW stuff w/o needing to drag a mage along that might crimp their style.

Here's an approach I've been toying with:
- Use Energy Sphere to make a PPE storage device (at 5th level it would hold 500 PPE for 10 days) and add power it off of a ley line. I envision this being the size/shape as a foot locker or small gas generator.
- Then use the Energy Sphere device to recharge all your other TW devices (would require each item to be modded with a "PPE charging cable")

With that approach, you only have to take the storage device to a ley line, and not every TW item. And with something like an NG Sky King, getting to/from a ley line can be pretty darned quick. Would be a decent option for a town located near, but not on top of, a ley line.

Why would it need to be the size of a foot locker? It's magic! So just make it out of a coreless drill recharger or such and just do a little modifications to the physical structure so the PPE clips will slid into it for recharging.

[Shark_Force]

but you don't need to drag a mage along. a minor or major psychic will do just fine, and they're not rare at all.

[ShadowLogan]

Through the Glass Darkly Spell invention & Modification Text if you are insistent you need a distinct spell to use rather then just making a spell like power in the item. But it is easier to contemplate if it is an amalgamated device with the energy syphon being a magic item itself that feeds the TW part of the device's power storage.
example viewtopic.php?f=8&t=131655&p=2548448&hilit=The+White+Rabbit%27s+Watch#p2548448

Bio-wizard options are basically permanently torturing a sentient being. See fairy harvest text. So it is fairly easy to see that said methods are %$^*$^$%^& EVIL!
Death option...you are continually killing things just to power your guns. Duh killing so you can kill some-more.....EVIL!

Both are Evil!

Don't have TtGD. There are already magic items that can store PPE, but very few actively renew their PPE for general use (nothing says that the PPE spent on a spell in a talisman can be retasked for general PPE). The only ones that come to mind are considered Rune Weapons.

There are TW constructs that emulate Bio-Wizard approach by locking an entity w/n. Ex. Rifts New West Pg219: "..,a tectonic entiry locked within the heart of the Glittermount and a number of secret components. Note that the tectonic entity inside the mechanical construct does not consider itself enslaved or abused and enjoys its life as part of the TW mechanical horse." So clearly TW can "imprison" an entity like Bio-Wizardry, but it is not permanent or torture IF the proper being is used. I know the Tolkeen Iron Juggernauts (SoT) are similar (though off hand I don't recall how the entities feels about it), along with the TW train in New West (if Elementals are used as opposed to demon).

While the death PPE involved killing things, yes there are types that are evil (I don't dispute that), but there are also ones that are not regarded as so by many people. The killing does not have to be for the PPE purposes either, but as a side benefit. Ex. A slaughter house could sell the PPE of animals they slaughter, either directly to mage(s) to store and use or "bottle it up" somehow. Nothing going on in the example here is evil from most people's POV.

[Shark_Force]

the tolkeen iron juggernauts are made with some technique that nobody knows. iirc, it's heavily implied that they're controlled by a fusion of transferred intelligence humans and elementals. but it's never explicitly stated how exactly they work... officially, that secret was lost when tolkeen fell.

[ShadowLogan]

the tolkeen iron juggernauts are made with some technique that nobody knows. iirc, it's heavily implied that they're controlled by a fusion of transferred intelligence humans and elementals. but it's never explicitly stated how exactly they work... officially, that secret was lost when tolkeen fell.

I don't get the impression they are examples of transferred intelligence. When the MDC is depleted the body is still present, almost makes them closer to a Cyborg or robot/power-armor than a TI 'bot/golem. The IJs also contain Elementals that are released when the IJ is destroyed, in addition to leaving the body behind.

[Shark_Force]

do you have any sort of quote on elementals being released on their death? i don't recall anything specific on that subject. nor do i recall any specific mention of a human corpse being found inside an iron juggernaut after it was destroyed.

it's entirely possible i just don't recall correctly, however.

[ShadowLogan]

do you have any sort of quote on elementals being released on their death? i don't recall anything specific on that subject. nor do i recall any specific mention of a human corpse being found inside an iron juggernaut after it was destroyed.

it's entirely possible i just don't recall correctly, however.

From the Wing Blade Iron Juggernaut Entry (SoT#6 pg61), similar statements also appear in the Millipede Entry. I do not have SoT#1-3/5 at this time (I have looked at 1 and 2, and IIRC have similar Wing Blade entries but its been a while), but suspect based on SoT#6 that they also have similar entries in this area. Millipede does change the M.D.C. by location note to simply "the mortal remains of one humanoid" after the elemental aspect, and notes the rear 'bots tear away (also IJs).
"Crew: Uncertain, intelligence suggests one human or D-Bee and one or two Elementals or primordial Elemental force."
Under the M.D.C. By Location ** section: "Complete destruction of the main body will destroy the magical construct and free whatever elemental forces are locked within. These forces do not linger or fight, but vanish in a swirl of wind in a matter of seconds. Inside the Juggernaut is the mortal pilot, typically a human (60%) practitioner of magic or psychic who was low level, elderly or of poor health, but the "brains" of the Juggernaut may also be a D-Bee (40%) with a similar O.C.C. or high level of P.P.E. The exposed pilot will be in a coma and hovers near death. Any save vs coma and death is done at -55% to save; most die. Conventional medical treatment and care will make the individual more comfortable, but does little to save his life- the stress of having been an integral "part" of an Iron Juggernaut is too much for most mortals to survive. The pilot is always mortal, never a Mega-Damage being or Supernatural creature; presumably this is a creation limitation or requirement."
"Power System: Magical and undetermined. Suspected to be a Major Air and/or Water Elemental that appears to supply an endless, renewable source of energy and power."