Alternate Timelines

[Nox Equites]

Different histories for Rifts make interesting campaign fodder.

Some examples:

A) The CS begins their War Campaign in a different direction, perhaps they Focus on containing Tolkeen and instead engage the Xiticix whom are a bigger threat anyway. Another option is to consolidate power by taking down Kingsdale first and annexing Whykin. Solidifying their hold in the heartland will protect their crucial food supplies in Missouri. Maybe intel will indicate how bad things are on the other side of the Rio Grande. This could spur a campaign against the Pecos Raiders to solidify and control the area they claim as Lone Star.

B) What happens during and after the Mechanoid Invasion? How much of a problem were the Mechanoids for the powers in North America? How much will the various manufacturers learn from this alien technology? ARCHIE was working with them and thus has better access and tech base to reproduce some nasty toys. Will the invasion spur ARCHIE to change his behavior by making connections with human governments and maybe setting up alliances? The Splugorth will definitely have more assets in NA for some time after the invasion is quelled to make sure it is really over. If they figure out where the rift was that brought the Spider Fortress things could get interesting. Will this cause friction with locals and foolish invasion attempts on Atlantis? How many AbMechs came through and can they find friends?

C) After the annexation of New Kenora the CS noticed that the plans for IHA equipment were gone. What if the escaping engineers decided to work with one of the Black Market groups to start over instead of going pirate? Would adding tanks to say Bandito Arms arsenal change the dynamic in the New West? What about giving GAW some nice ships? Maybe IHA makes a deal with Free Quebec? Could a deal involve sticking it to the CS?

D) What if a 20th century Special operations unit rifts into NA? The size of the unit will influence its survivability. A Ranger company with RRs and Hvy MGs will have a chance against some minor menaces. It won't take long for them to become proficient with new weapons and some of their skills are perfect for WI weapons. If they survive what do they do? Become mercs or set up as local protectors? Do the majority of them sympathize with the CS or are they repulsed by their ideals? Do any of them develop psychic abilities from the transition?

What other ideals have you used or can think of?

[HWalsh]

The Sorcerer's Revenge never happened...

Tolkeen never summoned forth dark powers as the CS retreated. Free Quebec thus never made a deal with the CS. With public opinion not on their side and the CS suffering a serious loss other groups smelled blood. Tolkeen held the moral high ground and the CS was forced to concede.

This concession has caused several groups who disliked the CS to become emboldened. Most notably Free Quebec, who, on reconsideration decided to enter into an alliance with Tolkeen. The city that stood against the CS.

The CS now finds Chi-Town under seige by forces from FQ, Tolkeen, and others...

Setting the stage for the Seige on Chi-Town: The Last Stand of Emperor Prosek.

[Nightmask]

The Sorcerer's Revenge never happened...

Tolkeen never summoned forth dark powers as the CS retreated. Free Quebec thus never made a deal with the CS. With public opinion not on their side and the CS suffering a serious loss other groups smelled blood. Tolkeen held the moral high ground and the CS was forced to concede.

This concession has caused several groups who disliked the CS to become emboldened. Most notably Free Quebec, who, on reconsideration decided to enter into an alliance with Tolkeen. The city that stood against the CS.

The CS now finds Chi-Town under seige by forces from FQ, Tolkeen, and others...

Setting the stage for the Seige on Chi-Town: The Last Stand of Emperor Prosek.

Definitely How It Should Have Gone.

[taalismn]

An alien pantheon smites Splugorth Atlantis with the hate of a thousand suns, baldy wounding Splynncrythh and breaking much of his on-scene armies. In the resultant chaos, a mass migration of escaping slaves blitzes for the dimensional gates, risking mixing with retreating Minions and other fleeing monsters to gain the safety of the megaverse, while many more flee in whatever means they can steal/hijack for the dubious safety of the other continents of Rifts Earth and other Rifts. Though Spkynncryth is quick to gather more forces and make a return to Atlantis, the 'hiccup' in his power reverberates around the world; cut-off Minion outposts and units find themselves facing local slave uprisings, or resurgences in enemies they are trying to surpress(like vampires). And while many of the escaping slaves are cut down by panicked mainlanders, many more find refuge in distant communities, try to carve out their own empires, or trade what they've looted to outsiders, spreading some of Atlantis's wealth and disseminating Minion technology to powers like Triax, the CS, and Northern Gun.
On Atlantis itself, the re-taking of territory isn't so simple, with other alien intelligences and monster races seeking to gain a toehold, and even emboldened powers like the CS Navy and NGR Navy go to sea and brazenly scout out Atlantis's coast in the turmoil.

[Braden Campbell]

67 PA - Bandits discover the Lone Star Complex before the CS does, and use it to found a true Pecos Empire...

[Killer Cyborg]

The Sorcerer's Revenge never happened...

Tolkeen never summoned forth dark powers as the CS retreated. Free Quebec thus never made a deal with the CS. With public opinion not on their side and the CS suffering a serious loss other groups smelled blood. Tolkeen held the moral high ground and the CS was forced to concede.

This concession has caused several groups who disliked the CS to become emboldened. Most notably Free Quebec, who, on reconsideration decided to enter into an alliance with Tolkeen. The city that stood against the CS.

The CS now finds Chi-Town under seige by forces from FQ, Tolkeen, and others...

Setting the stage for the Seige on Chi-Town: The Last Stand of Emperor Prosek.

Definitely How It Should Have Gone.

Oh, sure.
Because Free Quebec would ally with mages, and because the it wouldn't matter that the CS has more SAMAS than the entire populations of both FQ and Tolkeen combined.

That's surely how it should have gone.

If you want the CS to be realistically endangered during the Tolkeen War, you'd need some serious muscle to get involved, like Triax deciding to actively side with Free Quebec, and to have Triax invade the US.

[Bill]

A universe where the cataclysm happened a second earlier or a second later and the effects were radically different. Instead of empowering the ley lines and causing rifts between worlds to tear, the local barriers between world collapse entirely. The population of earth increases a hundred fold instantly. Not every alternate earth sucked into this vortex is populated by humans though. Hundreds of different species find themselves thrust together, fighting over food and other resources, confronting xenophobia, being influenced by the enormous surge of magical energy.

[Braden Campbell]

If you want the CS to be realistically endangered during the Tolkeen War, you'd need some serious muscle to get involved, like Triax deciding to actively side with Free Quebec, and to have Triax invade the US.

... Or have FQ keep their naval assets instead of returning them to the CS (huh????!?) thereby making them the only other power in North America with the ability to airdrop nuclear weapons into Chi-Town.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Chaos Earth's original concept was to have been a Alt Timeline where NEMA would of been in the place of the CS but as a force for good.

[taalismn]

Chaos Earth's original concept was to have been a Alt Timeline where NEMA would of been in the place of the CS but as a force for good.

I LIKED that Rifter snippet!


The CS never goes anti-magic; Karl Prosek's father acknowledges his bastard child by an affair with a female mage and, despite an ensuing political scandal and some serious marriage counseling, extends legitimacy to Dunscon by adopting him into the Prosek family. The Vanguard operates more openly, but makes sure that any and all magic in the CS is controlled by the HUMANS(and certain forms, such as Summoner magic, are outlawed), and the CS is arguably just as xenophobic, but has magic in its arsenal now. Tolkeen is split by civil war between the human magic users wanting to side with the CS and the non-human/all-tolerance factions. THis actually polarizes the rest of the country even more, since even human mages are looked on with suspicion by non-humans for fear that the humans are aligned with the CS. The CS authorizes confiscation of spell knowledge, research data, and artifacts both domestically and abroad(including extradimensionally) in order to build up its magic capabilities.

[Kagashi]

Chaos Earth's original concept was to have been a Alt Timeline where NEMA would of been in the place of the CS but as a force for good.

Rifts never erupt, NEMA/Republican run CS allied with Canadian Tundra Rangers and the New Navy in an alliance vs NGR and the Republic of Japan while the Sovietski attempt to spread their empire.

WWII...MDC style.

[sanka]

Rifts happens, but no space defenses, so space can be involved.

who wants to join with what interstellar power???

or does earth get invaded???

[ShadowLogan]

The Sorcerer's Revenge never happened...

Tolkeen never summoned forth dark powers as the CS retreated. Free Quebec thus never made a deal with the CS. With public opinion not on their side and the CS suffering a serious loss other groups smelled blood. Tolkeen held the moral high ground and the CS was forced to concede.

This concession has caused several groups who disliked the CS to become emboldened. Most notably Free Quebec, who, on reconsideration decided to enter into an alliance with Tolkeen. The city that stood against the CS.

The CS now finds Chi-Town under seige by forces from FQ, Tolkeen, and others...

Setting the stage for the Seige on Chi-Town: The Last Stand of Emperor Prosek.

Definitely How It Should Have Gone.

Oh, sure.
Because Free Quebec would ally with mages, and because the it wouldn't matter that the CS has more SAMAS than the entire populations of both FQ and Tolkeen combined.

That's surely how it should have gone.

If you want the CS to be realistically endangered during the Tolkeen War, you'd need some serious muscle to get involved, like Triax deciding to actively side with Free Quebec, and to have Triax invade the US.

Wasn't there some deal struck/about-to-be between FQ and Tolkeen that was mentioned in SoT6 that went sour that ultimately got the CS to accept FQ's independence that then allowed the CS to trade the war on two-fronts for a single front? FQ though ultimately would like to be left alone, so I can't see them taking the war to the CS proper.

I don't think it would necessarily take some serious muscle like Triax, but several smaller blocks getting involved on Tolkeen's side could together to endanger the CS by putting to much strain on them. You have the FoM in the East, not to mention Shems/Archie (unlikely, but if they could be manipulated into action...), Pecos Empire to the South, out west you have several kingdoms (in New West) that could see the benefit in attacking as part of a larger force since the CS likely doesn't like them just for being who they are (D-Bee, Magic users, etc). Not sure about players in Spirit West (don't have the book).

Back to the Alternate Timeline Topic:
Concerning SoT. How about if the FoM opened up another front against the CS, along with the Pecos Empire? Not necessarily to help Tolkeen, but seeing it as a way to stick it to the CS while they are distracted. Not sure when this would happen. Now the CS has a war on 3-4 fronts, possibly more if others join in.

The CS efforts to wipe out Naruni Enterprises (CWC) backfires as NE decides to treat the inventory that was lost as "credited to the CS" and they are here to collec. NE has taken over whole planets before to collect on debits.

[Killer Cyborg]

The Sorcerer's Revenge never happened...

Tolkeen never summoned forth dark powers as the CS retreated. Free Quebec thus never made a deal with the CS. With public opinion not on their side and the CS suffering a serious loss other groups smelled blood. Tolkeen held the moral high ground and the CS was forced to concede.

This concession has caused several groups who disliked the CS to become emboldened. Most notably Free Quebec, who, on reconsideration decided to enter into an alliance with Tolkeen. The city that stood against the CS.

The CS now finds Chi-Town under seige by forces from FQ, Tolkeen, and others...

Setting the stage for the Seige on Chi-Town: The Last Stand of Emperor Prosek.

Definitely How It Should Have Gone.

Oh, sure.
Because Free Quebec would ally with mages, and because the it wouldn't matter that the CS has more SAMAS than the entire populations of both FQ and Tolkeen combined.

That's surely how it should have gone.

If you want the CS to be realistically endangered during the Tolkeen War, you'd need some serious muscle to get involved, like Triax deciding to actively side with Free Quebec, and to have Triax invade the US.

Wasn't there some deal struck/about-to-be between FQ and Tolkeen that was mentioned in SoT6 that went sour that ultimately got the CS to accept FQ's independence that then allowed the CS to trade the war on two-fronts for a single front?

I actually don't know- I never read that far in the series.
Seems out of character for FQ to make any deal with mages, though.

FQ though ultimately would like to be left alone, so I can't see them taking the war to the CS proper.

Agreed.

I don't think it would necessarily take some serious muscle like Triax, but several smaller blocks getting involved on Tolkeen's side could together to endanger the CS by putting to much strain on them. You have the FoM in the East, not to mention Shems/Archie (unlikely, but if they could be manipulated into action...), Pecos Empire to the South, out west you have several kingdoms (in New West) that could see the benefit in attacking as part of a larger force since the CS likely doesn't like them just for being who they are (D-Bee, Magic users, etc). Not sure about players in Spirit West (don't have the book).

ARCHIE actively siding against the CS would be significant.
And yeah... if EVERYBODY decided to join up against the CS, that could be a threat... but I don't see that happening.

Back to the Alternate Timeline Topic:
Concerning SoT. How about if the FoM opened up another front against the CS, along with the Pecos Empire? Not necessarily to help Tolkeen, but seeing it as a way to stick it to the CS while they are distracted. Not sure when this would happen. Now the CS has a war on 3-4 fronts, possibly more if others join in.

Aren't the Pecos Empire bandits?

The CS efforts to wipe out Naruni Enterprises (CWC) backfires as NE decides to treat the inventory that was lost as "credited to the CS" and they are here to collec. NE has taken over whole planets before to collect on debits.

That could be interesting.

[taalismn]

[q

The CS efforts to wipe out Naruni Enterprises (CWC) backfires as NE decides to treat the inventory that was lost as "credited to the CS" and they are here to collec. NE has taken over whole planets before to collect on debits.

Problem is, the Splugorth aren't going to be easily ousted from prime real estate. The Earth becomes a battleground between the two 'business rivals' with subsidiary threats like the Xiticix and the vampires getting pulverized in the process(since NEITHER side likes them too much). Problem is, OTHER threads like the Lord of the Deep are left to the surviving local agencies to control. But could the NE.Splugorth wars disrupt their efforts, or might organizations like the New Navy be forced to beg for assistance from Naruni?

[Killer Cyborg]

[q

The CS efforts to wipe out Naruni Enterprises (CWC) backfires as NE decides to treat the inventory that was lost as "credited to the CS" and they are here to collec. NE has taken over whole planets before to collect on debits.

Problem is, the Splugorth aren't going to be easily ousted from prime real estate. The Earth becomes a battleground between the two 'business rivals' with subsidiary threats like the Xiticix and the vampires getting pulverized in the process(since NEITHER side likes them too much). Problem is, OTHER threads like the Lord of the Deep are left to the surviving local agencies to control. But could the NE.Splugorth wars disrupt their efforts, or might organizations like the New Navy be forced to beg for assistance from Naruni?

In an alternate timeline, you could do away with the Splugorth.
Maybe Atlantis never came back.

[Nightmask]

[q

The CS efforts to wipe out Naruni Enterprises (CWC) backfires as NE decides to treat the inventory that was lost as "credited to the CS" and they are here to collec. NE has taken over whole planets before to collect on debits.

Problem is, the Splugorth aren't going to be easily ousted from prime real estate. The Earth becomes a battleground between the two 'business rivals' with subsidiary threats like the Xiticix and the vampires getting pulverized in the process(since NEITHER side likes them too much). Problem is, OTHER threads like the Lord of the Deep are left to the surviving local agencies to control. But could the NE.Splugorth wars disrupt their efforts, or might organizations like the New Navy be forced to beg for assistance from Naruni?

I imagine he meant 'Naruni goes after the CS in order to receive suitable financial redress for destroyed inventory' rather than 'Naruni takes over Earth', using their having taken over entire planets in the past simply to demonstrate the lengths they'll go to in order to receive what they consider proper compensation since in those cases it was entire planetary governments in hock to Naruni in this case it would be simply the CS and its territories seen as financially responsible (good thing for Free Quebec leaving as a member and going solo).

[taalismn]

Still, the Splugorth might not take well to Naruni seizing a big piece of real estate for any length of time and siphoning up anything of value in it. Even half an ocean and a continent away, a major Naruni presence might be considered too close, especially if Naruni placates any nervous neighbors by arming them against the Splugorth, at a discount.

And if Naruni does a smash and grab, rather than attempt to establish a more long-term presence, leaving a shattered CS in the aftermath, depending on who and what's left, the resulting chaos in North America leads to all sorts of possibilities. Does Dunscon surface and roll over what's left of the CS? Do the Republicans step into the vacuum? Do the Xiticix suddenly expand their range in the chaos? Or some new player sees an opportunity?

[Brayon]

Alternate Timeline where The Republicans are not Human Supremacists, and treat D-Bees and Magic Users as equal. Instead of going against A.R.C.H.I.E. they instead, turn towards remaking the Republic based on the premise, "We hold these Truths to be self evident, that all Beings are created Equal. Empowered by their Creators..."

The Republicans then set about correcting the wrongs of the CS, by assassinating Prosek, and Family.

[taalismn]

Alternate Timeline where The Republicans are not Human Supremacists, and treat D-Bees and Magic Users as equal. Instead of going against A.R.C.H.I.E. they instead, turn towards remaking the Republic based on the premise, "We hold these Truths to be self evident, that all Beings are created Equal. Empowered by their Creators..."
.

I see an army of Squibs joining them. "RIGHT -ON-, BROTHERS AND SISTAHS!"

[Nightmask]

Alternate Timeline where The Republicans are not Human Supremacists, and treat D-Bees and Magic Users as equal. Instead of going against A.R.C.H.I.E. they instead, turn towards remaking the Republic based on the premise, "We hold these Truths to be self evident, that all Beings are created Equal. Empowered by their Creators..."

The Republicans then set about correcting the wrongs of the CS, by assassinating Prosek, and Family.

Ignoring the retcon to insert the Republicans ARCHIE-3 had been trying to do the right thing before the Splugorth messed it up, you just need it where he didn't go crazy evil over the loss or managed to prevent the massacre and formed a more balanced and helpful nation to prevent the CS from being as destructive as it has been and establish a better nation.

[taalismn]

Atlantean Landrush!---The Splugorth either don't seize control of Atlantis or they hold it only long enough to frighten and annoy their neighbors before something drives them offworld(or forces them to withdraw the bulk of their forces back through the rifts) leaving only a token presence on the newly-risen continent. In due time the largely vacant continent is discovered by other Earth powers, who rush to claim a piece of the real estate. The Coalition and the New German Republic are obvious contenders, seeking to use it as both a secure pipeline to funnel resources between the two, but even as their alliance agrees to share Atlantis, both sides are maneuvering to stake out as much territory as they can, the CS even whipping up armies of fast-cloned Dogboy 'colonists' to hold ground until there's enough human colonists to establish a presence, while the NGR sends hordes of robots. Of course other powers are aim to make Atlantis theirs, from Gargoyles and other monster races, Horune pirates, Free Quebec ubernationalists, FoM extremists, ARCHIE-3(Shemarrians!), Lazloites(in the name of peaceful exploration), various refugee groups, Atlantean clans claiming rightful ownership of the old homestead, and even the New Navy. There's opportunity and tension aplenty from big governments and small claimjumpers staking out territory. Plus there's ancient Atlantean relics and more in the muck waiting to be excavated.There's more than gold in those hills.
And, in the middle of this, there are hints that the Splugorth might come back(or arrive late).

[Nox Equites]

Take any industrial city that hasn't been statted out and have it "pop" back into the Rifts continuum. Maybe the factory core was what left and suddenly a fully functioning factory returns to the crater that was in the center of the ruins. Thousands of technicians and regular Joes suddenly have to fend for themselves. What if it was something like the Detroit Tank Plant? Dozens of partial armored vehicles and a few complete except for QA testing.

What if one True Atlantean clan decided to get involved in Mexico decades ago? Instead of Doc Reed you have a local power group lead by a high level Stone Master with Undead Slayers commanding well trained teams of vampire killers. The level of success depends on where they set up. Perhaps they become allies with El Paso or they set up nearer to Baha California to have relatively secure territory to expand from. They could backfire if it results in cooperation between Vamp intelligences, but if the Atlanteans have one or more pyramids the game is less certain for the intelligences. When you can call in friends from hundreds of worlds the future is variable. And vamps can summon help too.

The kamikazi end run that won the SoT brings the Xiticix after CS Iron Heart and Chi Town. The CS can win after a massive loss of men and materiel or lose large amounts of territory and have to retrench. Perhaps the struggle brings in FQ to save humanity in NA. Maybe FQ seizes parts of Iron Heart as payment for assistance.

After years of suffering plenty of justifications from CS depredations the Plains tribes band together to reek havoc on the CS. This could be during some other pressing event like SoT of FQ campaign where so many resources are engaged too damn far away to help. Always on the move, the assaulting forces are difficult to pin down into a nice set piece battle. After the massacre of every border post from Missouri through Iowa and Chi Town the CS sues for peace and accepts the tribes as political entities. The Aftermath could result in CS regrouping and regaining territory or splintering into factions as Chi Town leadership is shown to be incompetent.

[ShadowLogan]

I actually don't know- I never read that far in the series.
Seems out of character for FQ to make any deal with mages, though.

I looked at SoT6 last night, that is what happens. I agree it seems out of character, but we have to remember that FQ and Tolkeen both have a common enemy, and war can sometimes make strange bedfellows (pretty much the reasoning in the book).

ARCHIE actively siding against the CS would be significant.
And yeah... if EVERYBODY decided to join up against the CS, that could be a threat... but I don't see that happening.

ARCHIE's involvement though may still be through intermediaries like the Shems, and not him proper which can alter his significance. If Archie throws his entire weight into the fray, yes the CS is going to be in trouble just from him, but if he limits himself to intermediaries his impact may not be as great.

Really I'm surprised that more people aren't forming alliances as a result of the CS-Tolkeen war in NA as a defense against the CS. They might not match the CS in terms of technical might, but collectively they stand a better chance together than individually.

Aren't the Pecos Empire bandits?

I believe so, but that doesn't mean they can't launch pillaging raids like the Vikings or Mongols of old raiding CS territory, not everyone lives in the Mega Cities.

Problem is, the Splugorth aren't going to be easily ousted from prime real estate. The Earth becomes a battleground between the two 'business rivals' with subsidiary threats like the Xiticix and the vampires getting pulverized in the process(since NEITHER side likes them too much). Problem is, OTHER threads like the Lord of the Deep are left to the surviving local agencies to control. But could the NE.Splugorth wars disrupt their efforts, or might organizations like the New Navy be forced to beg for assistance from Naruni?

Nightmask hit it on the head in what I am suggesting.

I do think NE could make a business case to the Splugorth to justify their actions (both are business entities after all). The Splugorth, and various powers, definitely will take exception if NE tries to take over the entire world, but if it's just a slice of the pie in "unclaimed" territory (ie not part of the lands held by "treaty" parties) I think they will have less to say. Atlantis seemed okay with NE sellers in NA and SA after all.

Other than slave stock, does the CS really have anything the Splugorth (and their minions) would be interested in? The CS is more tech orientated, similar to NE, than magical like Atlantis (Kittani being the exception, and they are a head of Triax so CS technology as a whole isn't going to be attractive to them).

[Glistam]

How about an alternate timeline where the massacre of 12P.A. never happened, and subsequently the C.S. never adopted their anti-magic stance? You'd have a modern Coalition States with sanctioned Vanguard soldiers.

How about an alternate timeline where A.R.C.H.I.E.'s experiment with magic and dimensional energy didn't bring forth the Mechanoids? He doesn't become too scared to continue and eventually re-discovers the portal technology that was in use in Florida shortly before the coming of the Rifts.

Or an alternate timeline where the Mechanoids were not defeated, and they've established a foothold along the East coast. Mechanoids to the East, Xiticix to the North... After a couple resounding defeats (Free Quebec among them) an uneasy truce is formed across North America as humanity fights back against extinction.

What if there was no "Coalition States?" What if the individual city-states that comprise the Coalitionn never quite saw eye to eye enough to band together under one common leader?

[Killer Cyborg]

Really I'm surprised that more people aren't forming alliances as a result of the CS-Tolkeen war in NA as a defense against the CS. They might not match the CS in terms of technical might, but collectively they stand a better chance together than individually.

They're still in the phase where they don't think that the CS will come for them.
Or they kind of know that it might happen... but (like Tolkeen) they think that they can hold their own.

Historically, nations tend to be pretty bad at calculating the odds.

[Kagashi]

Really I'm surprised that more people aren't forming alliances as a result of the CS-Tolkeen war in NA as a defense against the CS. They might not match the CS in terms of technical might, but collectively they stand a better chance together than individually.

They're still in the phase where they don't think that the CS will come for them.
Or they kind of know that it might happen... but (like Tolkeen) they think that they can hold their own.

Historically, nations tend to be pretty bad at calculating the odds.

Agreed. Even after Austria, Czechoslovakia and the Baltic States were acquired by Germany and the Soviet Union, nobody batted an eye. Wasnt until Poland was overrun did the French and UK do anything about it (and only against Germany despite the Soviets taking half of Poland). Same thing is going on here.

Plus, I highly doubt that Lazlo would associate with the likes of the Federation of Magic, they are fundamentally different cultures. But likely allies would be Queenston Harbor and Psyscape. Certain Native American tribes may be part of this alliance as well, notably The Longhouse Preserve, fort Huron, The Central Preserve, and possibly Fort Comanche. But most tribes want to be left alone and there are so many traditionalists that a formal alliance may not even be possible. Fort Dakota might be worried the CS is now on their doorstep, but 1) that land is not in the Campaign of Unity and 2) the CS is busy trying to keep Tolkeen manageable to expand further west at this time. All other Native American tribes are pretty much geographically or politically separated.

I actually don't know- I never read that far in the series.
Seems out of character for FQ to make any deal with mages, though.

I looked at SoT6 last night, that is what happens. I agree it seems out of character, but we have to remember that FQ and Tolkeen both have a common enemy, and war can sometimes make strange bedfellows (pretty much the reasoning in the book).

Yeah, pretty much they made an alliance since they had the same enemy, but in the end, Free Quebec couldnt abandon their humanity and deal with the mages and demons. So they let the Tolkeen forces attack, then opened up with the glitter boy legions as the demons and mages took shots from both sides. This act basically ended the war with Free Quebec and granted FQ their official independence from the CS and allowed the CS to focus entirely on Tolkeen, which gave them the resources to finally finish what should have happened in book 1.

[Killer Cyborg]

I actually don't know- I never read that far in the series.
Seems out of character for FQ to make any deal with mages, though.

I looked at SoT6 last night, that is what happens. I agree it seems out of character, but we have to remember that FQ and Tolkeen both have a common enemy, and war can sometimes make strange bedfellows (pretty much the reasoning in the book).

"Alliance" or "Non-aggression pact?"
Care to toss a direct quote or two my way, here or via PM (to avoid further derailing the thread)?

[Kagashi]

I actually don't know- I never read that far in the series.
Seems out of character for FQ to make any deal with mages, though.

I looked at SoT6 last night, that is what happens. I agree it seems out of character, but we have to remember that FQ and Tolkeen both have a common enemy, and war can sometimes make strange bedfellows (pretty much the reasoning in the book).

"Alliance" or "Non-aggression pact?"
Care to toss a direct quote or two my way, here or via PM (to avoid further derailing the thread)?

p 7-9 states there was a Non-Aggression Pact starting "months before the Sorcerers Revenge" up until Tolkeen suggested an Alliance after the Sorcerers Revenge, which Free Quebec signed, then clearly broke. The book does not actually use the term "Alliance" but they clearly describe a military alliance and the text refers to each other as allies. Regardless the alliance was short lived, if it were not still born from the beginning.

[Killer Cyborg]

I actually don't know- I never read that far in the series.
Seems out of character for FQ to make any deal with mages, though.

I looked at SoT6 last night, that is what happens. I agree it seems out of character, but we have to remember that FQ and Tolkeen both have a common enemy, and war can sometimes make strange bedfellows (pretty much the reasoning in the book).

"Alliance" or "Non-aggression pact?"
Care to toss a direct quote or two my way, here or via PM (to avoid further derailing the thread)?

p 7-9 states there was a Non-Aggression Pact starting "months before the Sorcerers Revenge" up until Tolkeen suggested an Alliance after the Sorcerers Revenge, which Free Quebec signed, then clearly broke. The book does not actually use the term "Alliance" but they clearly describe a military alliance and the text refers to each other as allies. Regardless the alliance was short lived, if it were not still born from the beginning.

I don't have the book, so I can't look up the specifics.
Doesn't sound like a real alliance that would have held up, from your description.

[Killer Cyborg]

I actually don't know- I never read that far in the series.
Seems out of character for FQ to make any deal with mages, though.

I looked at SoT6 last night, that is what happens. I agree it seems out of character, but we have to remember that FQ and Tolkeen both have a common enemy, and war can sometimes make strange bedfellows (pretty much the reasoning in the book).

Yeah, pretty much they made an alliance since they had the same enemy, but in the end, Free Quebec couldnt abandon their humanity and deal with the mages and demons. So they let the Tolkeen forces attack, then opened up with the glitter boy legions as the demons and mages took shots from both sides. This act basically ended the war with Free Quebec and granted FQ their official independence from the CS and allowed the CS to focus entirely on Tolkeen, which gave them the resources to finally finish what should have happened in book 1.

[taalismn]

The Good Splugorth thread:
http://palladium-megaverse.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=82955

Basically the Splugorth are goody-two-shoes, while the rest of Rifts Earth consists of deeply traumatized, xenophobic, violent nuts who don't realize the Big Eyeball is trying to help, or else they don't think there's anything wrong with themselves in the first place and want the Florence Eyeballs to leave them the hell alone. .

[Killer Cyborg]

67 PA - Bandits discover the Lone Star Complex before the CS does, and use it to found a true Pecos Empire...

You mean the new cs state of Pecos introducing the Pecos psi hound or SoP maybe another free state like Quebec

Ooh!
Interesting either way!

[Killer Cyborg]

Here are some ideas:
1. The Xiticix arrived even earlier, so their populations were even higher by 100 PA. The Tolkeen war never happens, because both Tolkeen and the CS are too busy fighting bugs.
2. In 80 PA, the Gateway Arch locks into a permanent portal to... (Pick any fun setting, from a dimension of undead or demons, to the Xiticix homeworld, to any of Palladium's other games)
3. The Coalition perfected the technology used to create Dr. Greymatter, giving them the ability to create super-psychic cyborgs.
4. When the high-tech Japanese city returns to Earth, it returns to some place in North America.
5. The Native Americans never come back to this dimension.
6. Techno-Wizardry is never discovered in North America, but PFRPG-style Alchemy is.
7. The Coming of the Rifts occurs to the HU dimension, where there are a large number of super-heroes and super-villains.
8. Instead of rejecting magic due to the Federation of Magic's attacks, Chi-Town instead embraces the one kind of magic that is open to everybody: Witchery. They find a demon/intelligence/god/Old One, and adopt a national religion that requires every citizen to sign a Pact with this entity.
9. During the Coming of the Rifts, the SDF-3 reappears and crashes in North America.
10. A massive over-production of Dog Boys, combined with a number of careless political and genetic-engineering mistakes results in a Dog Boy revolution. As a result the CS is ruled by mutant dogs, and humans are second-class citizens.

[Glistam]

Those are some wild ideas KC!

[Zer0 Kay]

A universe where the cataclysm happened a second earlier or a second later and the effects were radically different. Instead of empowering the ley lines and causing rifts between worlds to tear, the local barriers between world collapse entirely. The population of earth increases a hundred fold instantly. Not every alternate earth sucked into this vortex is populated by humans though. Hundreds of different species find themselves thrust together, fighting over food and other resources, confronting xenophobia, being influenced by the enormous surge of magical energy.

So a Chaos Earth original concept alternate?

[Zer0 Kay]

A Vampire intelligence that isn't a moron and knows human blood is a renewable resource given willingly is less dangerous. Ensuing gathering of humans escaping and rescued from other VIs produce a technology based society non xenophobic society. VI worshiped by mortals as benevolent God. VI discovers true usefulness of Faith over simply collecting PPE.

Aberrant VI god?

[Glistam]

• The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse aren't defeated before they can get to one another. While all four don't make it, enough of them made it together and the extinction of all life on the planet has begun. Time to evacuate - but to where, and how?

• The Coming of the Rifts wiped out Humanity completely. There were no survivors. Rifts Earth belongs completely to those who arrived during and after the initial chaos, and Humanity's Golden Age artifacts are all that remain of the planet's original inhabitants.

• The Coming of the Rifts actually destroyed the planet. What used to be Earth is an field of debris encircling a global field of still active ley lines and nexus points. The only survivors are those few who can exist in such an environment. This includes what's left of the space community, who have managed to survive and now eke out a sorrowful existence mining the wreckage of their home world.

[Killer Cyborg]

• The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse aren't defeated before they can get to one another. While all four don't make it, enough of them made it together and the extinction of all life on the planet has begun. Time to evacuate - but to where, and how?

• The Coming of the Rifts wiped out Humanity completely. There were no survivors. Rifts Earth belongs completely to those who arrived during and after the initial chaos, and Humanity's Golden Age artifacts are all that remain of the planet's original inhabitants.

• The Coming of the Rifts actually destroyed the planet. What used to be Earth is an field of debris encircling a global field of still active ley lines and nexus points. The only survivors are those few who can exist in such an environment. This includes what's left of the space community, who have managed to survive and now eke out a sorrowful existence mining the wreckage of their home world.

Nice!

[Zer0 Kay]

Here are some ideas:
1. The Xiticix arrived even earlier, so their populations were even higher by 100 PA. The Tolkeen war never happens, because both Tolkeen and the CS are too busy fighting bugs.
2. In 80 PA, the Gateway Arch locks into a permanent portal to... (Pick any fun setting, from a dimension of undead or demons, to the Xiticix homeworld, to any of Palladium's other games)
3. The Coalition perfected the technology used to create Dr. Greymatter, giving them the ability to create super-psychic cyborgs.
4. When the high-tech Japanese city returns to Earth, it returns to some place in North America.
5. The Native Americans never come back to this dimension.
6. Techno-Wizardry is never discovered in North America, but PFRPG-style Alchemy is.
7. The Coming of the Rifts occurs to the HU dimension, where there are a large number of super-heroes and super-villains.
8. Instead of rejecting magic due to the Federation of Magic's attacks, Chi-Town instead embraces the one kind of magic that is open to everybody: Witchery. They find a demon/intelligence/god/Old One, and adopt a national religion that requires every citizen to sign a Pact with this entity.
9. During the Coming of the Rifts, the SDF-3 reappears and crashes in North America.
10. A massive over-production of Dog Boys, combined with a number of careless political and genetic-engineering mistakes results in a Dog Boy revolution. As a result the CS is ruled by mutant dogs, and humans are second-class citizens.

Get your stinking paws off me you damn dirty dog.

[Zer0 Kay]

Splicers: The machine wins. She developed a weapon that completely disintegrates biologicals. After gathering the majority of the humans into one location with the belief that they could take out her mainframe she detonates the weapon. All of the humans gathered including some of the guys who will become Librarians are removed from the world, no mess left behind to clean up. The machine easily erradicates the remaining humans.

Rifts: a massive artificial rip in space time opens 6200 feet above sea level... but less than a hundred feet over Crater lake in Oregon. Out of it spews forth the displaced population of many splicer houses. New kingdom start.

[Nightmask]

A Vampire intelligence that isn't a moron and knows human blood is a renewable resource given willingly is less dangerous. Ensuing gathering of humans escaping and rescued from other VIs produce a technology based society non xenophobic society. VI worshiped by mortals as benevolent God. VI discovers true usefulness of Faith over simply collecting PPE.

Aberrant VI god?

There's already a vampire intelligence in South America who actually does that, he has things set up where the humans routinely donate and get various perks and are treated less like cattle compared to the other VI. It keeps the vampire population down so they aren't a burden on the population and relies on the humans to make up the slack by making them feel loyal due to how he protects them from the worse monsters (relatively speaking) so they fight for it willingly.

[Zer0 Kay]

A Vampire intelligence that isn't a moron and knows human blood is a renewable resource given willingly is less dangerous. Ensuing gathering of humans escaping and rescued from other VIs produce a technology based society non xenophobic society. VI worshiped by mortals as benevolent God. VI discovers true usefulness of Faith over simply collecting PPE.

Aberrant VI god?

There's already a vampire intelligence in South America who actually does that, he has things set up where the humans routinely donate and get various perks and are treated less like cattle compared to the other VI. It keeps the vampire population down so they aren't a burden on the population and relies on the humans to make up the slack by making them feel loyal due to how he protects them from the worse monsters (relatively speaking) so they fight for it willingly.

I don't remember that one. Which one is that, or rather on what pages are that so I don't have to research it.

[Nightmask]

A Vampire intelligence that isn't a moron and knows human blood is a renewable resource given willingly is less dangerous. Ensuing gathering of humans escaping and rescued from other VIs produce a technology based society non xenophobic society. VI worshiped by mortals as benevolent God. VI discovers true usefulness of Faith over simply collecting PPE.

Aberrant VI god?

There's already a vampire intelligence in South America who actually does that, he has things set up where the humans routinely donate and get various perks and are treated less like cattle compared to the other VI. It keeps the vampire population down so they aren't a burden on the population and relies on the humans to make up the slack by making them feel loyal due to how he protects them from the worse monsters (relatively speaking) so they fight for it willingly.

I don't remember that one. Which one is that, or rather on what pages are that so I don't have to research it.

Afraid I don't have my Vampire Kingdoms book handy to be able to tell you, I just remembered that one of them was more careful about things than the others and treated humans considerably better.

[Zer0 Kay]

A Vampire intelligence that isn't a moron and knows human blood is a renewable resource given willingly is less dangerous. Ensuing gathering of humans escaping and rescued from other VIs produce a technology based society non xenophobic society. VI worshiped by mortals as benevolent God. VI discovers true usefulness of Faith over simply collecting PPE.

Aberrant VI god?

There's already a vampire intelligence in South America who actually does that, he has things set up where the humans routinely donate and get various perks and are treated less like cattle compared to the other VI. It keeps the vampire population down so they aren't a burden on the population and relies on the humans to make up the slack by making them feel loyal due to how he protects them from the worse monsters (relatively speaking) so they fight for it willingly.

I don't remember that one. Which one is that, or rather on what pages are that so I don't have to research it.

Afraid I don't have my Vampire Kingdoms book handy to be able to tell you, I just remembered that one of them was more careful about things than the others and treated humans considerably better.

You recall if it was a hi-tech society or does the VI still keep the humies rather limited in that respect?

[Glistam]

• A.R.C.H.I.E. 3's attempts to create a post-apocalyptic society were not aborted/destroyed prematurely by the Splugorth. As the community grew, so did A.R.C.H.I.E.'s confidence and eventually he even awoke the NEMA soldiers under his care in suspended animation. Together they re-create a society inspired by the Golden Age of Mankind and become the new stronghold for Humanity, led/assisted by A.R.C.H.I.E. 3. The Coalition States may or may not still be assisted in forming by the Republicans, except in this case they would be dissidents opposed to being ruled over by A.R.C.H.I.E. 3.

• The plot by the Vallax aliens (from WB 10, Juicer Uprising) succeeds. The Coalition has its credibility completely undermined as the Vallax and their army of "zombie" juicers carve out their own territory in North America. The Federation of Magic and Tolkeen both take advantage of this to press attacks upon the Coalition that put them on the defensive (though they hold their own). Political borders change and a tenuous stalemate is reached... but the powder keg is just waiting for the right spark to re-ignite it.

These below are less "alternate histories" as they are "potential futures/presents":

• Erin Tarn's trip to Wormwood alerted the Splugorth to its presence. Always on the lookout for an exploitable resource, their minions are able to find one of the many portals that exist to this world/dimension and they descent en masse. Wormwood becomes a three-way war for as long as the Splugorth allow it - as they keep pouring in minions and resources both factions on Wormwood are eventually wiped out, and the living planet is enslaved for experimentation and profit. The good news is within 5-10 years after that some very cool new gear appears for sale in Atlantis...

• The Shemmarian Warriors have had a computer virus running rampant through them for quite a while now, and by the time A.R.C.H.I.E. noticed it was too late. They become split off from his commands and self-aware. The Shemmarian Nation is now real. With the introduction of mechanics and other support bots, the Shemmarians not only believe their false history but are capable of becoming self-sufficient. The rogue/errant Shemmarian who was the first to achieve this sentience begins the process of consolidating their empire and improving it, in order to take the fight for their survival to Atlantis.

[Nightmask]

A Vampire intelligence that isn't a moron and knows human blood is a renewable resource given willingly is less dangerous. Ensuing gathering of humans escaping and rescued from other VIs produce a technology based society non xenophobic society. VI worshiped by mortals as benevolent God. VI discovers true usefulness of Faith over simply collecting PPE.

Aberrant VI god?

There's already a vampire intelligence in South America who actually does that, he has things set up where the humans routinely donate and get various perks and are treated less like cattle compared to the other VI. It keeps the vampire population down so they aren't a burden on the population and relies on the humans to make up the slack by making them feel loyal due to how he protects them from the worse monsters (relatively speaking) so they fight for it willingly.

I don't remember that one. Which one is that, or rather on what pages are that so I don't have to research it.

Afraid I don't have my Vampire Kingdoms book handy to be able to tell you, I just remembered that one of them was more careful about things than the others and treated humans considerably better.

You recall if it was a hi-tech society or does the VI still keep the humies rather limited in that respect?

About as high-tech as you'd expect, since the humans were actively part of the vampire defenses they wouldn't be very helpful if they weren't using technology (particularly since technology is far less a threat to them than magic, a human armed with a railgun isn't an issue one armed with damaging magical spells on the other hand is).

[Zer0 Kay]

• The Regis after leaving Earth runs across the SDF3 in superluminal form, right when the SDF3 tries to jump away from the black hole the result a misfold that has them both crashland in the Arctic. The SDF3 embedded in the ice and the Regis under the ice. The Regis quickly manipulates her invid to have gills so they can survive. The Regis communicates directly with Admiral Hunter and reveals the whole story to him. With a mutual understanding that everyone was doublecrossed by Haydon and with a mediocre understanding of their current situation the two groups enter an alliance to work together, at least until they can return home.
•The underground complex of a Splicer great house is somehow rifted into Antarctica. Above the caverns is a machine outpost capable of repairing but not replacing bots, from the nanites to the giant warbots. The nanite plague will die off quickly but not before the splicers come in contact with some equipments from RE and find out the nanites are indeed working. Reinforcing their distrust of normal tech, which they'd be able to use in a few short months. In Splicers there is now a massive lake that is full of PPE (splicers with mystic powers requiring vials of water from the lake?)
•Arthur and Merlin return overthrowing Zashaun. A group formed by the Anglo-Saxon Kings to watch for and stop Arthur's return is awakened.
•Cheyenne Mt. Complex is entombed but contains the bugs from System Failure
•Dark side of moon has Macross II base.
•Mechanoid Mothership stuck in low orbit over the great red spot on Jupiter.

[Kagashi]

This is something Ive been working on for quite some time. Megaversal Earth. Here is the cliffs notes.

Various technological factions across all of Palladium's titles exist within the same dimension. No rifts ever erupt, Atlantis never returns, magic and the supernatural are rare. No alien invasion has ever occurred save for one lone ship that crash landed thousands of years ago in the pacific (SDF-1) and was uncovered to spawn a Golden Age of Man and arms race.

The EU funds the crash site and reverse engineers the technology, uncovering Robotechnology and forms the United Earth Government. The UEG is bent on a unified government to protect the Earth from potential alien invasion (which never comes). Many countries do not agree with the NWO-like stance and an arms race begins, with the North American countries taking the lead against the former EU. In response North America forms the North amErican Military Alliance (citing the Monroe Doctrine). Germany secedes from the EU/UEG in favor for independence, Russia splinters into waring factions with Moscow forming the Sovietski government, and China begins the secret Geofront project.

Genetic manipulation becomes an explosive new science, with the Lone Star Complex and Project Achilles creating many mutant animals and human augmentation. An overflow of super beings congregate in Charleston SC and rename it Century Station with mutant animals trying to claim independence in what they call Cardania (in my world its located in Texas, near Lone Star), inciting an insurgency against the "Empire of Humanity" as they call the humans at Lone Star. Organitech, based out of the old NORAD complex, attempts to Splice human DNA with that from the alien flower seeds found on the alien ship in a weird, but powerful technology. Germany refines Juicers, Psytronics and Mindwerks develop MOM tech, and Germany and Russia refine Borg tech. The United States and the NEMA develop Robots and Power Armor and AI robots. All the while, Professor Lazlo runs the Lazlo society/agency from the University of Toronto studying the paranormal with an international crew and a society of "Knights" born out of a high tech society and vowed to combat evil across the planet. Also citing the Monroe Doctrine, Columbia requests international support from European intervention in the America and the NEMA dispatches their expeditionary force, the Megaversal Legion (humans only) to South America.

The Preserver Party (secretly backed by Nightlords and being investigated by the Lazlo Agency) takes over the United States political system and begins repressing North America, causing a Coalition of States to secede from the United States causing the Second American Civil War. Quebec takes the secession route and leaves Canada and joins in a Coalition with the other states. As Civil War erupts in the Americas, the UEG launches the Grand Offensive and attacks all the major threats, conquering all of Asian Russia, Overland China (Geofront goes unnoticed), Africa, Middle East, Western USA and Canada and all of Mexico (up to the CS borders), and half of South America. The remainder of the Republican Party over throws President Carson and imprisons him in Germancy Island as they try to reclaim the United States from the Coalition and UEG occupation and liberate Mexico and Canada. The EBSIS (Ukraine area) secedes from the UEG after the ousted Preserver Party refocuses on Europe, stealing plans from the more recent UEG power armors and creates massive Battloids.

In space, Cyberworks (based in the United States) established a moon colony, causing grief in the international community due to the Outer Space Treaty of 1967. The United States claimed no national interest in the privatized moon base but it did cause the UEG to establish ALuCE and Mars Base Sera. Other nations quickly established space stations. Yuro station is what remains of the various European governments and form the UN Spacy and vows to return Europe to its original governments, using reversed engineered first generation Robotechnology. The NEMA contracted KLS to run Freedom Station, utilizing the Dimensional Gateway project out of Florida to ferry supplies. Lakia Station is what remains of the Russian Federation. Void of money, and its space fleet devastated by the Grand Offensive, Japan abandons both its stations, leaving the Graveyard in ruins and the second station at the hands of the Outcasts. The UEG maintains Space Station Liberty in deep solar orbit. The UEG is the only society to have perfected FTL travel, but has not ventured outside the solar system yet.

Examples of Active wars:
CS vs Cardania (backed by weapons shipments from the US)
CS vs US (Cold War with occasional border skirmishes)
Lazlo vs the Supernatural ("Secret" war)
NEMA (whats left of Canada and USA), Germany, and Japan vs UEG
Sovietski vs Russian warlords

General Game Mechanics:
MDC environment, including magic and the supernatural even though they are rarely encountered, also including super powers.
Most magic encountered is written off as some sort of mutant power or hidden technology.
MDC weapons and armor are generally reserved for military use. SDC weapons and equipment are common, MDC is rare.

This idea basically spawned from a "who would win...the CS or the REF?" type of question.

[SolCannibal]

I actually don't know- I never read that far in the series.
Seems out of character for FQ to make any deal with mages, though.

I looked at SoT6 last night, that is what happens. I agree it seems out of character, but we have to remember that FQ and Tolkeen both have a common enemy, and war can sometimes make strange bedfellows (pretty much the reasoning in the book).

"Alliance" or "Non-aggression pact?"
Care to toss a direct quote or two my way, here or via PM (to avoid further derailing the thread)?

p 7-9 states there was a Non-Aggression Pact starting "months before the Sorcerers Revenge" up until Tolkeen suggested an Alliance after the Sorcerers Revenge, which Free Quebec signed, then clearly broke. The book does not actually use the term "Alliance" but they clearly describe a military alliance and the text refers to each other as allies. Regardless the alliance was short lived, if it were not still born from the beginning.

I don't have the book, so I can't look up the specifics.
Doesn't sound like a real alliance that would have held up, from your description.

Well, if someone among Tolkeen's warlords was a little less stupid in their choice of troops, it might have held for one specific battle and that was as much as they needed at that moment of the conflict. A force not so blatantly monstrous/demonic might not have scared the FQ troops in helping the ambushed CS forces and inadvertently forcing their government to renege the secret deal - supposing they truly intended to hold on their part of it, of course.