Exo-skeleton/power armor in film

[StormSeeker]

I just watched the Tom cruise movie Edge of Tomorrow.

In it, soldiers in the near future wear exo-suits to fight alien forces which have invaded Earth.
The suits enhance the wearer's strength and bristle with weapons. One character even takes advantage of the enhanced strength to use a melee weapon to great effect against the enemy.

There are some great visuals, and checking out the movie can really give you some inspiration and/or appreciation for using exo-suits/power armor in your gaming.

[Blue_Lion]

Well animation has lots of examples.
Iron man is also one such example.

[kaid]

The ironman films are probably some of the better examples of various looks of power armor. From form fitting augmented armor to huge suites like the villian in the first one that is really border line between a robot they are piloting and powered armor.

Other good recent ones with the more minmalistic power armor is as you said edge of tomorrow, elysium has similar type armor but theirs is sort of a hybrid of cybernetic augmentation and exo skeleton augmentation. District 9 has a pretty neat mech/power armor at the end.

[glitterboy2098]

edge of tomorrow's version is based off the real world XOS by Sarcos. though from what i understand, the manga it was based on had powered armor more like the Moljnir suit from Halo.

of course, the XOS exoskeleton is not intended to be used as it currently is, they want to make a fully armor encased suit of armor, which the concept models look a lot like the armor used in the "all you need i kill" manga the film was based on..

a really good film to watch for PA operations is Appleseed, the 2004 version with CGI. though the last battle is a bit odd, the Landmates in that are pretty good at showing how the bigger PA suits in rifts might work.
(the manga isn't quite the same visual feast, but it has some good reference material..)

[drewkitty ~..~]

Most in this list are japanese animation.
Madox-01 (PA in urban combat)
Bubblegum Crisis, BG Crash, BG Crisis 2040.(PAs in urban combat)
Starship Troopers (the anime and the novel)
Aldnoah Zero (minor medical power augmentation)
Appleseed movies (there are several, mostly urban combat)
Aliens (the 'loader')
The Irresponsible Captain Tylor
Tiger and Bunny
Macross & L,DYR/DYRL & Macross II (both Zent and meltrandi have PAs)

[grandmaster z0b]

These suits, like the ones in Matrix bother me because they don't have any armor. Half the point of having an exoskeleton is to allow the soldier to wear much heavier armor than they otherwise would be able to.

[Blue_Lion]

These suits, like the ones in Matrix bother me because they don't have any armor. Half the point of having an exoskeleton is to allow the soldier to wear much heavier armor than they otherwise would be able to.

Not always. The point could be to lift and carry more. Power armor defiantly about extra armor, the point of the exoskeleton development is to increase a person ability to lift and move things. Armor if added to a exoskeleton is secondary.

Wasn't there a show Exo-squad in the 90s.

[grandmaster z0b]

These suits, like the ones in Matrix bother me because they don't have any armor. Half the point of having an exoskeleton is to allow the soldier to wear much heavier armor than they otherwise would be able to.

Not always. The point could be to lift and carry more. Power armor defiantly about extra armor, the point of the exoskeleton development is to increase a person ability to lift and move things. Armor if added to a exoskeleton is secondary.

That's why I said "Half the point" and trust me it's not secondary when it comes to the military, which is what the thread is in regards to.

[Blue_Lion]

These suits, like the ones in Matrix bother me because they don't have any armor. Half the point of having an exoskeleton is to allow the soldier to wear much heavier armor than they otherwise would be able to.

Not always. The point could be to lift and carry more. Power armor defiantly about extra armor, the point of the exoskeleton development is to increase a person ability to lift and move things. Armor if added to a exoskeleton is secondary.

That's why I said "Half the point" and trust me it's not secondary when it comes to the military, which is what the thread is in regards to.

That is where you are wrong. The focus has been to increase the soldiers ability to perform heavy duty activity and lifting power. Armor is a secondary priority in the development.

[grandmaster z0b]

These suits, like the ones in Matrix bother me because they don't have any armor. Half the point of having an exoskeleton is to allow the soldier to wear much heavier armor than they otherwise would be able to.

Not always. The point could be to lift and carry more. Power armor defiantly about extra armor, the point of the exoskeleton development is to increase a person ability to lift and move things. Armor if added to a exoskeleton is secondary.

That's why I said "Half the point" and trust me it's not secondary when it comes to the military, which is what the thread is in regards to.

That is where you are wrong. The focus has been to increase the soldiers ability to perform heavy duty activity and lifting power. Armor is a secondary priority in the development.

Current infantry have to wear body armor and helmets so I assume a soldier in an exoskeleton would at least wear those if not heavier armor, in both The Matrix Revolutions and The Edge of Tomorrow they don't seem to wear either. Seems silly.

[Incriptus]

Wasn't there a show Exo-squad in the 90s.

And it was great.

[Blue_Lion]

Well those are movies, and they are not always accurate.

Matrix they where self propelled weapons platforms. With the reduced resources from the post apoclipse they may not have had the material to outfit their troops with body armor. Instead focused on giving them as much fire power as they could.

[Daniel Stoker]

Wasn't there a show Exo-squad in the 90s.

And it was great.

How funny, I'm actually rewatching the first season now and I agree it is rather good.


Daniel Stoker

[Zer0 Kay]

Most in this list are japanese animation.
Madox-01 (PA in urban combat)
Bubblegum Crisis, BG Crash, BG Crisis 2040.(PAs in urban combat)
Starship Troopers (the anime and the novel)
Aldnoah Zero (minor medical power augmentation)
Appleseed movies (there are several, mostly urban combat)
Aliens (the 'loader')
The Irresponsible Captain Tylor
Tiger and Bunny
Macross & L,DYR/DYRL & Macross II (both Zent and meltrandi have PAs)

I forgot you were a BGC fan too, I was just gonna bring it up.

Isn't Aldnoah more Mecha than PA?

[Zer0 Kay]

Ya want cheesy PA? Captain Power

Cheesy-licious like nachos, a chilicheese dog or a pretzel with cheese!

[Blue_Lion]

Wasn't there a show Exo-squad in the 90s.

And it was great.

How funny, I'm actually rewatching the first season now and I agree it is rather good.


Daniel Stoker

I think that shows PA is some of the closet to rifts PA.

[Zer0 Kay]

Wasn't there a show Exo-squad in the 90s.

And it was great.

How funny, I'm actually rewatching the first season now and I agree it is rather good.


Daniel Stoker

I think that shows PA is some of the closet to rifts PA.

Wha? Maybe the GB, Jager, and the other bulkier ones that seem like they would respond to movement rather than moving with the wearer making them more of a pilot than a wearer. Reacting of the movement of the body instead of the impulses traveling to muscles.

Exo-Squad, AD Police, Illegal Army, Madox-01

The Terrain Hopper and other less bulky, form fittin PA, I imagine operating
More like Knight Saber, Tiger and Bunny

[Blue_Lion]

Wasn't there a show Exo-squad in the 90s.

And it was great.

How funny, I'm actually rewatching the first season now and I agree it is rather good.


Daniel Stoker

I think that shows PA is some of the closet to rifts PA.

Wha? Maybe the GB, Jager, and the other bulkier ones that seem like they would respond to movement rather than moving with the wearer making them more of a pilot than a wearer. Reacting of the movement of the body instead of the impulses traveling to muscles.

Exo-Squad, AD Police, Illegal Army, Madox-01

The Terrain Hopper and other less bulky, form fittin PA, I imagine operating
More like Knight Saber, Tiger and Bunny

I was referring to form and how they fight. Control wise the exo squad PA use direct nero-ink the thing that plugs in to the back there neck to control it.

[Zer0 Kay]

How funny, I'm actually rewatching the first season now and I agree it is rather good.


Daniel Stoker

I think that shows PA is some of the closet to rifts PA.

Wha? Maybe the GB, Jager, and the other bulkier ones that seem like they would respond to movement rather than moving with the wearer making them more of a pilot than a wearer. Reacting of the movement of the body instead of the impulses traveling to muscles.

Exo-Squad, AD Police, Illegal Army, Madox-01

The Terrain Hopper and other less bulky, form fittin PA, I imagine operating
More like Knight Saber, Tiger and Bunny

I was referring to form and how they fight. Control wise the exo squad PA use direct nero-ink the thing that plugs in to the back there neck to control it.

Dang your right. Completely forgot about that. Even the toys had it, thought it was cool that it was that detailed. Iirc they still lumbered around though instead of being fluid. More of a Movie Frankenstine than a Mary Shellie's Modern Promethian.

[Blue_Lion]

I think the lumbering you are talking about was from the animation style. Seamed very GI Joe style animation.
If I recall right you get a bonus to pilot robots/pa for a data jack in rifts.

[Slight001]

IIRC Exo-Squad PA's were designed more for power and protection value then speed. I also suspect the creators were going for a more technically/mechanically accurate concept for powered armor.

[Zer0 Kay]

IIRC Exo-Squad PA's were designed more for power and protection value then speed. I also suspect the creators were going for a more technically/mechanically accurate concept for powered armor.

yup, cuz glass is great protection... Or was that just the toys?

[Blue_Lion]

IIRC Exo-Squad PA's were designed more for power and protection value then speed. I also suspect the creators were going for a more technically/mechanically accurate concept for powered armor.

yup, cuz glass is great protection... Or was that just the toys?

There forward speed was fairly high and some where agile the clunky ness was more of animation style.

[Slight001]

IIRC Exo-Squad PA's were designed more for power and protection value then speed. I also suspect the creators were going for a more technically/mechanically accurate concept for powered armor.

yup, cuz glass is great protection... Or was that just the toys?

rule of cool... **** rule it maybe, but it is a dominate force...

[Daniel Stoker]

yup, cuz glass is great protection... Or was that just the toys?

That's the cartoon too and so you can see the characters I think.


Daniel Stoker

[Tiree]

Martian Successor Nadesico - not sure if I'd classify it as power armor or a Robot Vehicle.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Martian Successor Nadesico - not sure if I'd classify it as power armor or a Robot Vehicle.

Vehicle.

[Zer0 Kay]

yup, cuz glass is great protection... Or was that just the toys?

That's the cartoon too and so you can see the characters I think.


Daniel Stoker

Oh man, so the actors demanded that the space helmets be unreliatic and show they're whole face so fans could recognize them?

[Daniel Stoker]

Well in the cartoon's sack I think it's more so the kids could recognize who was who.


Daniel Stoker

[Zer0 Kay]

Well in the cartoon's sack I think it's more so the kids could recognize who was who.


Daniel Stoker

Cuz kids don't recognize, "Hey that's Ironmans Armor and that is Warmachine and ironmonger." poor reason.

[Nightmask]

Well in the cartoon's sack I think it's more so the kids could recognize who was who.


Daniel Stoker

Cuz kids don't recognize, "Hey that's Ironmans Armor and that is Warmachine and ironmonger." poor reason.

And yet they do it all the time, and it's at least as much so they could show emotions using faces (which we're predisposed to recognize easily) as it was to tell characters apart most likely.

[guardiandashi]

Well in the cartoon's sack I think it's more so the kids could recognize who was who.


Daniel Stoker

Cuz kids don't recognize, "Hey that's Ironmans Armor and that is Warmachine and ironmonger." poor reason.

And yet they do it all the time, and it's at least as much so they could show emotions using faces (which we're predisposed to recognize easily) as it was to tell characters apart most likely.

I would actually argue its not always the ACTORS making the demands, but more the director/producers.

in a side note re starship troopers the novel and per things I have read the 3rd movie actually have some decent "power armor" ideas/implementation

with that said the "first" starship troopers movie was horrible because the director seriously missed the "point" behind the novel, and additionally completely threw out all the power armor aspects and threw the actors into repainted flack jackets (bullet resistant vests) that would be equivalent to wearing tissue paper for the MI troopers in the novel.

[glitterboy2098]

actually, Verhoven says he never read the novel (he claims he gave up a few pages into it), he'd already pretty much finished preproduction a film called 'bug hunt', when two of his assistants came to him claiming his film and starship troopers had a lot in common (apparently they though SST was all about fascism and militarism and stuff), and convinced him to obtain the rights to the well known name and ride it's coattails.. so he did and made changes to the names in his script.

[Premier]

Well in the cartoon's sack I think it's more so the kids could recognize who was who.


Daniel Stoker

Cuz kids don't recognize, "Hey that's Ironmans Armor and that is Warmachine and ironmonger." poor reason.

And yet they do it all the time, and it's at least as much so they could show emotions using faces (which we're predisposed to recognize easily) as it was to tell characters apart most likely.

I would actually argue its not always the ACTORS making the demands, but more the director/producers.

in a side note re starship troopers the novel and per things I have read the 3rd movie actually have some decent "power armor" ideas/implementation

with that said the "first" starship troopers movie was horrible because the director seriously missed the "point" behind the novel, and additionally completely threw out all the power armor aspects and threw the actors into repainted flack jackets (bullet resistant vests) that would be equivalent to wearing tissue paper for the MI troopers in the novel.

Your both correct. The Starship Troopers producers were limited in budget plus were highly concerned that the audience would get lost determining and following who is who if they were in full power armor as described in the novel. As a designer and concept artist I have devised new techniques to get around the identity of cast challenge.

BTW, Bubblegum Crisis is a gem. There is also a starship troopers anime. Armor written by the late John Steakley which is a homage to Starship Troopers is also a gem and one of the reasons I got into rpging just so that I could have my friends experience what I envisioned in that book. For classic pa cartoons there was also Inhumanoids.

[SpiritInterface]

Until fairly recently there wasn't any inexpensive and realistic way to show power armor in live action movies, so anime was the only good source of movies with PA in them. Then there is the problem of finding a good story involving PA that wouldn't be a let down as a movie or be five hours long.

[ShadowLogan]

Ya want cheesy PA? Captain Power

Cheesy-licious like nachos, a chilicheese dog or a pretzel with cheese!

It's been a long time since I've seen the show Captain Power and the Soldiers of the Future (I do have 1 EP on VHS recording), but I'm not sure if I would consider the Power Suits (in general, Tank's might qualify) in the show as examples of Exo-skeleton/power armor. They seem closer to PW's Intruder Solid Energy technology utilized for body armor than Power Armor (again Tank's suit might be the exception of the 5 examples).

[Zer0 Kay]

Well in the cartoon's sack I think it's more so the kids could recognize who was who.


Daniel Stoker

Cuz kids don't recognize, "Hey that's Ironmans Armor and that is Warmachine and ironmonger." poor reason.

And yet they do it all the time, and it's at least as much so they could show emotions using faces (which we're predisposed to recognize easily) as it was to tell characters apart most likely.

I would actually argue its not always the ACTORS making the demands, but more the director/producers.

in a side note re starship troopers the novel and per things I have read the 3rd movie actually have some decent "power armor" ideas/implementation

with that said the "first" starship troopers movie was horrible because the director seriously missed the "point" behind the novel, and additionally completely threw out all the power armor aspects and threw the actors into repainted flack jackets (bullet resistant vests) that would be equivalent to wearing tissue paper for the MI troopers in the novel.

Your both correct. The Starship Troopers producers were limited in budget plus were highly concerned that the audience would get lost determining and following who is who if they were in full power armor as described in the novel. As a designer and concept artist I have devised new techniques to get around the identity of cast challenge.

BTW, Bubblegum Crisis is a gem. There is also a starship troopers anime. Armor written by the late John Steakley which is a homage to Starship Troopers is also a gem and one of the reasons I got into rpging just so that I could have my friends experience what I envisioned in that book. For classic pa cartoons there was also Inhumanoids.

Inuhmanoids... Wow, and ya didn't bring up Centurions

[Alrik Vas]

Hey, no power-extreme in here. Keep it PG.

[SpiritInterface]

After watching the movie, i have to say that adding more armor than what was there would have been a waste.

[kaid]

yup, cuz glass is great protection... Or was that just the toys?

That's the cartoon too and so you can see the characters I think.


Daniel Stoker

Oh man, so the actors demanded that the space helmets be unreliatic and show they're whole face so fans could recognize them?

It is not even that the actors demand it the problem is you are paying some guy or gal millions of bucks and then if you conceal their face you lose a lot of the benefit of paying that money. I think marvel did an awesome job of depicting iron man so you can see the armor in action but then still cut to the scenes of him inside the armor so you get the best of both worlds.

[Zer0 Kay]

yup, cuz glass is great protection... Or was that just the toys?

That's the cartoon too and so you can see the characters I think.


Daniel Stoker

Oh man, so the actors demanded that the space helmets be unreliatic and show they're whole face so fans could recognize them?

It is not even that the actors demand it the problem is you are paying some guy or gal millions of bucks and then if you conceal their face you lose a lot of the benefit of paying that money. I think marvel did an awesome job of depicting iron man so you can see the armor in action but then still cut to the scenes of him inside the armor so you get the best of both worlds.

and that is how all fully enclosed helmets should be handled. The ones I find ridiculous is going with the bubble helmet instead of the one with the open face for recognition. Or going with an open face dive mask instead of a resperator. In both situations you can see the person and tell who it is. Nope, must see the FULL face.

[Chronicler]

I wonder if the AMP suit from Avatar counts as power armor? Also what would separate mechs from power armor? Is it that the person moves along with it like a slave system of input or can the person sit and control it by wired controls (or levers depending on if it is fantasy or steam-punk)?

[kaid]

I think the amp suit is along the lines of an ulti max. Something that borders between power armor and robot vehicle.

One of the main things that in general separates mechs from power armor typically is a more conventional vehicle cockpit type design. Things like what you see in robotech and battle tech. Power armor is more typically seen as powered armored exoskeleton that augments the capabilities of the pilot. But there are a lot of edge cases in rifts and in movies and anime that could be argued reasonably either direction.

But then you get some odd cases like the jaegers of pacific rim. They are clearly giant robotic vehicles but the control scheme is almost more power armor like where it mimics the movement of the pilots.

[Zer0 Kay]

I think the amp suit is along the lines of an ulti max. Something that borders between power armor and robot vehicle.

One of the main things that in general separates mechs from power armor typically is a more conventional vehicle cockpit type design. Things like what you see in robotech and battle tech. Power armor is more typically seen as powered armored exoskeleton that augments the capabilities of the pilot. But there are a lot of edge cases in rifts and in movies and anime that could be argued reasonably either direction.

But then you get some odd cases like the jaegers of pacific rim. They are clearly giant robotic vehicles but the control scheme is almost more power armor like where it mimics the movement of the pilots.

Jagers aren't borderline. That is a common control type in anime. It doesn't enhance the wearer's capabilities it is no different than stick and pedal, just far more intuitive.

[Slight001]

Tactical Armor from Gasaraki is likely a Heavy PA like the Samson or the Terror Trooper

[Nightmask]

Plus as the Evil Overlord's list addresses it (or so I remember, certainly it's been covered in some list) you don't want the 'faceless mook' look because then you can't know if someone's trying to infiltrate you using the blank face nature of the outfits as a disguise. So if the technology allows for it you likely want a transparent faceplate so your allies can recognize that you're the one inside the armor at the time.

[glitterboy2098]

Tactical Armor from Gasaraki is likely a Heavy PA like the Samson or the Terror Trooper

i prefer to view heavy PA like the terror trooper or Ulti-max as using a control system similar to the AMP suits from avatar. having an exoskeleton control frame for main control, but also some robot type cockpit elements. (the arm-slaves from full metal panic would also be an example, though those are more robot like.)

tactical armor from Gasaraki, with their purely joystick, pedal, and voice control set up, is more akin to the piloted robots of rifts.. in a TA the pilot does not control the mecha's movements through pilot limb movement, which is the defining trait of a PA to me.

[Zer0 Kay]

Tactical Armor from Gasaraki is likely a Heavy PA like the Samson or the Terror Trooper

i prefer to view heavy PA like the terror trooper or Ulti-max as using a control system similar to the AMP suits from avatar. having an exoskeleton control frame for main control, but also some robot type cockpit elements. (the arm-slaves from full metal panic would also be an example, though those are more robot like.)

tactical armor from Gasaraki, with their purely joystick, pedal, and voice control set up, is more akin to the piloted robots of rifts.. in a TA the pilot does not control the mecha's movements through pilot limb movement, which is the defining trait of a PA to me.

Wow so the PR Jagers are PA to you? What about the weapons system on the ship in The legend of the rangers makes it a PA?

Giant Robot/Mecha is ridden and PA is worn. PA is armor that is partially robotic, giant robots/mecha are vehicles. What's so confusing?

[glitterboy2098]

how about the fact that the ultimax, at 20ft tall, is a PA?
heavy PA are usually way too big to be worn as armor, some are bigger than a few piloted robots, yet they are classified as PA, not robots.

which indicates that something other than size is the determiner. control system makes more sense than anything else, since all PA have the bit about tiring out the wearer, but nearly all robots lack it.

the Jeager is a fuzzy case though i'll admit. presumably since only the legs are controlled via pilot movement, while everything else is via a cockpit, it got classified as a robot not a PA.

[guardiandashi]

how about the fact that the ultimax, at 20ft tall, is a PA?
heavy PA are usually way too big to be worn as armor, some are bigger than a few piloted robots, yet they are classified as PA, not robots.

which indicates that something other than size is the determiner. control system makes more sense than anything else, since all PA have the bit about tiring out the wearer, but nearly all robots lack it.

the Jeager is a fuzzy case though i'll admit. presumably since only the legs are controlled via pilot movement, while everything else is via a cockpit, it got classified as a robot not a PA.

I would say the jeagers in PR are a hybrid technically.
they are a robot vehicle, as the pilots are completely in a cockpit assembly (and in the case of danger its removable) however a lot of their control interface is based on PA technologies.


the thing to remember about powerarmor is that their controls primarily work on negative feedback, so you don't technically pilot the suit, you wear it.

the description in starship troopers the novel is one of the better descriptions of a lot of the simplicity of the "controls"

a lot of the controls in that example are primarily based on the wearer attempting to perform actions and the suit interpreting what they want based on those actions.
in battletech the descriptions of how elemental (and many pa suits) are that they use pilot attempts to do action and suit responds, pilot wants to shoot makes a gesture that effectively pulls the trigger. many controls are triggered by looking in certain ways (to interact with hud systems) or hitting controls in the suit /helmet liner.

I know there are other examples I was thinking about but I forgot what they were