Operators choosing additional mechanical skills-Redundant?

[alogan]

I was rolling up an operator today and had some trouble picking my skills. I was planning on tricking the character out with a ton of mechanical/electrical skills, but the more I looked the more many of the skills seemed unnecessary. Operators already get Mechanical Engineer, Weapons Engineer, and Electrical Engineer, along with their special OCC skills that allow him to soup-up/modify devices and weapons. Is there any point in using skill slots for Auto Mechanics, Vehicle Armorer, Bioware Mechanics, Aircraft Mechanics, etc? At first I figured I should at least get Robot Mechanics and Robot Electronics, but again, the unique Operator skills seem to imply that he can already modify robots all day long until his heart's content anyway, so why bother?

In short, what Mechanical skills of these types would add nothing to the character's abilities (and thus not be chosen)? Which mechanical skills WOULD add to the character's range of mechanical abilities?

[drewkitty ~..~]

Depending on what specialization the char is going to be you'd pick the skill for that specialty. If it is a 3G operator the char might have picked up some skills to let her work on spacecraft.

[The Beast]

IMO, using Mechanical Engineering instead of Aircraft Mechanics to repair aircraft would be a very bad idea. ME would let you know how to repair an aircraft, but AM would let you know the exact specifications that every part used to repair it must be in order to keep it airworthy. Go to YouTube and up the Air Crash Investigation series to get an idea of what I mean.

I also wouldn't let it cover Bioware Mechanics and Robot Mechanics, mostly for the same reason. I think Mechanical Engineer is more of an overall skill knowledge whereas the others are more specialized.

Now with autos, I think you could get away with it as long as the car isn't too advanced. Like something from the early to mid '70s or prior to it shouldn't be to difficult to work on, but cars after that start getting difficult. So basically the more advanced something is, the farther from Mechanical Engineering it would be.

[Incriptus]

Something worth noting is that a mechanical engineer has to roll to see if he understands the device, then again to see if he can repair it. While an Automotive mechanic would always understand the automobile then roll to see if he can repair it.

So a Mechanical Engineer may have to roll 50% then 50% again, while you're automobile mechanic just needs to roll 50% once.

In additional I would feel fine having the person who had both could roll both skills. So a character who was just a Mechanical engineer would have a 25% of success, while a Automotive Engineer would have a 50% chance, While a character with both skills would have a 75% chance.

[Nightmask]

Those other, more specialized areas of training are still necessary if you want to be proficient in those kinds of repairs instead of simply passable. Mechanical engineering for example is a broad overall knowledge of such things and while it would let you eventually figure out how to repair an automobile you won't repair it as quickly and efficiently as the person with automotive mechanics would. Just as you really need the robotics skills if you're going to repair robots, mechanical engineering and electrical engineering are inferior to their robotics counterparts when it comes to repairing and modifying such things.

[Alrik Vas]

I usually allow any roll at a slight penalty of you make the base roll to understand the device. Larger penalties for modifications.

These are generally waived if you have the specialized skill.

[Blue_Lion]

I would say they are not redundant as things can get away from basic mechanical engineering. Also not having to figure out every thing you are working on does save allot of time when you need to fix it.

An example is if I wanted to modify and build tanks what skills would I use.
Vehicle armor
Weapons engineer
and maybe automobile.

*Vehicle armor because it allows adding weapons and modifying the chaises and adding non weapon features like more MDC or counter measures.

*Weapons engineer- With vehicle armorer skill this might seam redundant right. What happens when you have to rebuild a weapon or need to build one from scratch that is when you would need this skill.

*Automotive mechanic to keep the main engine and propulsion system running.

So while it may appear that Vehicle armorer makes the other to redundant in truth they add to what he can do.

[Mack]

I don't have my book handy to verify this, but if my memory serves skills like Auto Mechanics and Vehicle Armorer start out at a higher percentage than the Engineering skills. (Although the Operator's skill bonuses might overcome that...)

Regardless, it really comes down to your GM and how much latitude he'll grant you with the Engineering skills.

[Blue_Lion]

I don't have my book handy to verify this, but if my memory serves skills like Auto Mechanics and Vehicle Armorer start out at a higher percentage than the Engineering skills. (Although the Operator's skill bonuses might overcome that...)

Regardless, it really comes down to your GM and how much latitude he'll grant you with the Engineering skills.

The skill robot mechanics starts at 20%
The skills Basic mechanics, Bioware mechanics and vehicle armor start out at 30%
All other mechanical skills start at 25%

So the +20 over comes it. The only electrical skill which is not over come is electrical generation.

[alogan]

I would say they are not redundant as things can get away from basic mechanical engineering. Also not having to figure out every thing you are working on does save allot of time when you need to fix it.

An example is if I wanted to modify and build tanks what skills would I use.
Vehicle armor
Weapons engineer
and maybe automobile.

*Vehicle armor because it allows adding weapons and modifying the chaises and adding non weapon features like more MDC or counter measures.

*Weapons engineer- With vehicle armorer skill this might seam redundant right. What happens when you have to rebuild a weapon or need to build one from scratch that is when you would need this skill.

*Automotive mechanic to keep the main engine and propulsion system running.

So while it may appear that Vehicle armorer makes the other to redundant in truth they add to what he can do.

I guess my issue is that an operator gets the 'repair and soup-up machines and vehicles' skill, which allows him to replace/add MDC to machines and armor, as well as increase the range of weapons and radio devices, increase the speed of machines by up to 20%, and add weapons or features to each section of a vehicle/fortification. He can also 'completely repair most parts, machines and vehicles'. So if he can already do this with his special OCC skill, what point does taking on Vehicle Armorer, Auto Mechanics, etc. serve?

As a possible counter point, this special skill gives no percentage to his skill which makes things all the more confusing. It just says that he can do it, as if you don't need any rolls for it. Ahhh...Palladium rules sets.

[alogan]

One other question: The equipment section for the Operator states that he gets to 'commercial vehicles'. What kind of vehicles would this include?

[Blue_Lion]

I would say they are not redundant as things can get away from basic mechanical engineering. Also not having to figure out every thing you are working on does save allot of time when you need to fix it.

An example is if I wanted to modify and build tanks what skills would I use.
Vehicle armor
Weapons engineer
and maybe automobile.

*Vehicle armor because it allows adding weapons and modifying the chaises and adding non weapon features like more MDC or counter measures.

*Weapons engineer- With vehicle armorer skill this might seam redundant right. What happens when you have to rebuild a weapon or need to build one from scratch that is when you would need this skill.

*Automotive mechanic to keep the main engine and propulsion system running.

So while it may appear that Vehicle armorer makes the other to redundant in truth they add to what he can do.

I guess my issue is that an operator gets the 'repair and soup-up machines and vehicles' skill, which allows him to replace/add MDC to machines and armor, as well as increase the range of weapons and radio devices, increase the speed of machines by up to 20%, and add weapons or features to each section of a vehicle/fortification. He can also 'completely repair most parts, machines and vehicles'. So if he can already do this with his special OCC skill, what point does taking on Vehicle Armorer, Auto Mechanics, etc. serve?

As a possible counter point, this special skill gives no percentage to his skill which makes things all the more confusing. It just says that he can do it, as if you don't need any rolls for it. Ahhh...Palladium rules sets.

4. of the OCC abilities and bonuses can be a bit confusing. It looks like a list of what can be done with repair skills more than an power. Only add MDCC stands out above what can normally be done with skills as it can go beyond what is listed for standard vehicle mods. My guess is you need to talk to your GM to see if taking other skills is worth doing.

[Richardson]

If memory serves Vehicle Armorer is a skill which the new core rulebook implies can only be taken by Operators and Technical Officers which grants "base piloting skill" or somesuch wording to all Military and Tracked vehicles. Last I looked it up that came to around a 35% piloting skill for around 8 different vehicle skills including but not limited to tanks, APCs, various boats, helicopters, and jets. If lnowing how to pilot all those things for one tiny restricted skill slot isn't worth it to you then I don't know what is.

[guardiandashi]

If memory serves Vehicle Armorer is a skill which the new core rulebook implies can only be taken by Operators and Technical Officers which grants "base piloting skill" or somesuch wording to all Military and Tracked vehicles. Last I looked it up that came to around a 35% piloting skill for around 8 different vehicle skills including but not limited to tanks, APCs, various boats, helicopters, and jets. If lnowing how to pilot all those things for one tiny restricted skill slot isn't worth it to you then I don't know what is.

umm vehicle armorer is a repair skill similar to the armorer skill from c:war campaign, which is a military skill but is a limited version of the full up technical skills.
the armorer skill allows maintain, fix, modify, mount, reload/recharge ammo, and figure out most small arms. can repair all pistols, and rifles, repair up to 20 mdc to body armor, do some other things including explicitly recharging e-clips, and fix simple robot and bionic weapons.

[Blue_Lion]

If memory serves Vehicle Armorer is a skill which the new core rulebook implies can only be taken by Operators and Technical Officers which grants "base piloting skill" or somesuch wording to all Military and Tracked vehicles. Last I looked it up that came to around a 35% piloting skill for around 8 different vehicle skills including but not limited to tanks, APCs, various boats, helicopters, and jets. If lnowing how to pilot all those things for one tiny restricted skill slot isn't worth it to you then I don't know what is.

Nope it is from rifts Australia. and appears in Rifts GMG. It does provide basic mechanics and a bonus of +10 to automobile mechanics.
Reading it does also add specific things to the vehicle. This may be in addition to what the operator can do, as his base skill. (RUE I believe added the piloting ability to the skill thou.

The real issue is how do you define military vehicles. There are 5 skills listed as military vehicle piloting. The skill is not 35% but the base skill for the vehicle pilot skill for the vehicle so from 36% to 52% depending on the skill.

[Richardson]

umm vehicle armorer is a repair skill similar to the armorer skill from c:war campaign, which is a military skill but is a limited version of the full up technical skills.
the armorer skill allows maintain, fix, modify, mount, reload/recharge ammo, and figure out most small arms. can repair all pistols, and rifles, repair up to 20 mdc to body armor, do some other things including explicitly recharging e-clips, and fix simple robot and bionic weapons.

Rifts Ultimate Edition, page 313, paragraph 3 reads "The Vehicle Armorer can also drive/operate military vehicles and trucks at the Base Skill for that vehicle type."

Rifts Ultimate Edition, page 319, classifies 5 skills as Military under the Piloting section, plus the rest. This grants a total of the following:
- Combat Helicopters
- Jet Fighters
- Submersibles
- Tanks & APCs
- Tracked & Construction Vehicles (granted under the text for Tanks & APCs)
- Warships & Patrol Boats
- Truck

"Base" skill percentages vary dramatically between the lot, but between IQ bonuses and built-in features (off road suspension systems, combat computers, etc. from various books providing built in bonuses to the rolls) you might be surprised how effective an emergency pilot an Operator can be in a pinch at the cost of a single skill selection. Combine that with the 3 piloting skills an Operator gets at +15% as part of his base skill package and the fact that piloting rolls are only required when in "adverse conditions" or "performing stunts" (p.318) so long as you have some modicum of training and I'd say it's one of the finest skill choices in the game. Likely one of the reasons in the "Note" section of the skill description Vehicle Armor is usually only available to Military Technical Officers and Operators. In the crazy Mad Max world of Rifts Australia this skill is virtually mandatory.

[Blue_Lion]

umm vehicle armorer is a repair skill similar to the armorer skill from c:war campaign, which is a military skill but is a limited version of the full up technical skills.
the armorer skill allows maintain, fix, modify, mount, reload/recharge ammo, and figure out most small arms. can repair all pistols, and rifles, repair up to 20 mdc to body armor, do some other things including explicitly recharging e-clips, and fix simple robot and bionic weapons.

Rifts Ultimate Edition, page 313, paragraph 3 reads "The Vehicle Armorer can also drive/operate military vehicles and trucks at the Base Skill for that vehicle type."

Rifts Ultimate Edition, page 319, classifies 5 skills as Military under the Piloting section, plus the rest. This grants a total of the following:
- Combat Helicopters
- Jet Fighters
- Submersibles
- Tanks & APCs
- Tracked & Construction Vehicles (granted under the text for Tanks & APCs)
- Warships & Patrol Boats
- Truck

"Base" skill percentages vary dramatically between the lot, but between IQ bonuses and built-in features (off road suspension systems, combat computers, etc. from various books providing built in bonuses to the rolls) you might be surprised how effective an emergency pilot an Operator can be in a pinch at the cost of a single skill selection. Combine that with the 3 piloting skills an Operator gets at +15% as part of his base skill package and the fact that piloting rolls are only required when in "adverse conditions" or "performing stunts" (p.318) so long as you have some modicum of training and I'd say it's one of the finest skill choices in the game. Likely one of the reasons in the "Note" section of the skill description Vehicle Armor is usually only available to Military Technical Officers and Operators. In the crazy Mad Max world of Rifts Australia this skill is virtually mandatory.

Specialy when you combine in that it includes some modifications that might stack with operators modification. Athou you can not hook up ammo, or repair weapons still use full. But as you pointed out very much worth taking for an operator.