C-144 Auto-Cannon caliber?

[taalismn]

I thought I remembered somebody had figured this out, but what's the approximate caliber of the Coalition States' C-144 Auto-Cannon as seen on the IAR-3 Abolisher robot. 30mm? 40mm? 60mm? Definitely NOT up there in the 105mm range.

[glitterboy2098]

personally, i'd call them 75mm.. they do their damage through single shells, so they have to be fairly hefty.. but anything bigger and you run into issues of ammo storage. a 75mm howitzer however is fairly compact and the ammo wouldn't take up that much space.

[DhAkael]

I'd say at max, simmilar to a Panzer Tiger's 80mm or, as stated, a short-shell 75mm (instead of direct fire, uses relatively slow balistics and heavier warhead charge).

[taalismn]

Thanks. It's a start. I needed a start point for some work.

[Blue_Lion]

How does its damage compare to the 75mm in merc ops I think. Rifts cannons are bit scarterd on how the work. Nothing stardard about them and their damage output or payload. I recall a 25mm auto cannon, 75 mm(howzer), 120 mm (think a 155 mm howzer) and 200 mm cannons in rifts books. So I would think without looking it up the c-144 is probably a 75 mm howzer.

[glitterboy2098]

Rifts cannons are bit scarterd on how the work. Nothing stardard about them and their damage output or payload.

which isn't too different from real life.. there are more factors at play than boresize. you also have cartridge length and propellant (and thus the kinetic energy/velocity it has when fired), the windage (the rate of spin the barrel imparts), the shell type and shape, the intended trajectory, the straighness of the barrel and accuracy of the aiming mechanism... and that is just for the kinetic impact ones. if using a warhead based shell, add in type of fuse, reliability of said fuse, type of explosive (including density, speed of explosion, energy release, etc), shape of the explosive warhead, means by which it does damage, physics effects deriving from the design...

hundreds of variables, if not thousands, all derived from the design itself. and that is before you add things like atmospheric conditions and other enviromental and functional ones for each shot, which is what the dice handle.

we rarely get more info than boresize, so one design of 75mm isn't automatically going to be the same as another 75mm design..

[taalismn]

Given the number of Korean War-era Army pack howitzers(75mm) that show up as VFW post 'guardians', I'm kinda surprised they don't appear in Rifts...Somebody musta unearthed a few and reverse-engineered some town artillery from them.

[glitterboy2098]

well, given how rusted those are by today, i doubt that in 400 years there will be all that many 'gate guardians' left. but one would expect that smaller howitzers would have been ressurected yes. especially because the smaller ones can be employed as direct fire anti-vehicle guns.

[taalismn]

well, given how rusted those are by today, i doubt that in 400 years there will be all that many 'gate guardians' left. but one would expect that smaller howitzers would have been ressurected yes. especially because the smaller ones can be employed as direct fire anti-vehicle guns.

I'll get on it.

[Blue_Lion]

Given the number of Korean War-era Army pack howitzers(75mm) that show up as VFW post 'guardians', I'm kinda surprised they don't appear in Rifts...Somebody musta unearthed a few and reverse-engineered some town artillery from them.

Try checking merc ops or merc town one has the 75mm howitzers. Recovered by golden age they also make a electro magnetic 75mm.

[Blue_Lion]

Rifts cannons are bit scarterd on how the work. Nothing stardard about them and their damage output or payload.

which isn't too different from real life.. there are more factors at play than boresize. you also have cartridge length and propellant (and thus the kinetic energy/velocity it has when fired), the windage (the rate of spin the barrel imparts), the shell type and shape, the intended trajectory, the straighness of the barrel and accuracy of the aiming mechanism... and that is just for the kinetic impact ones. if using a warhead based shell, add in type of fuse, reliability of said fuse, type of explosive (including density, speed of explosion, energy release, etc), shape of the explosive warhead, means by which it does damage, physics effects deriving from the design...

hundreds of variables, if not thousands, all derived from the design itself. and that is before you add things like atmospheric conditions and other enviromental and functional ones for each shot, which is what the dice handle.

we rarely get more info than boresize, so one design of 75mm isn't automatically going to be the same as another 75mm design..

That is going deeper than most RPGs do. Hard to calculate angle of impact and all that and rules do not take into account accuracy of aiming device. We have some what satirized rounds now for different size cannons and howitzers. Effort to be interchangeable with our allies. I would think that many of the same physics affect missiles (not boar size but missiles have a wide range in payload type and size even among same class of missles) that do cannon rounds but missal types are standardized in the game. When it comes to comes to cannons they are all over the place. Lets look at a few examples from Rifts merc.
*The MDC Bradley has a flat damage of 5d6 MDC for its 25mm auto cannon. No mention if that is the full auto burst single round or even the type of round.

*The modified M48A3 Patton has 90mm main gun and does 5d6MD with a heat round.

*The Iron hammer has a 200mm auto cannon limited to 2 shots a round (odd when auto cannons are normally self feeding and can be fully automatic machine gun fire.) Has damage variable on ammo ranging from 1d6 X 10 for AP to 3d6 X 10 for heat.

*The Iron Fist has 120 mm auto cannon Limited to 3 shots a round damage ranges from 1d4X10 to 2d6X10 depending on the round used.

*Iron maiden APC 30mm ramjet cannon Auto cannon fires 20 round burst 2d6X10 for the burst (single round does 3d6) no limit on rate of fire.

So in just one book cannons where treated several ways some with limits and some without. Some with variable payloads some with just one round type. This issue is in grenade launchers as well some have variable ammo some have just flat damage.

off topic-I have played around and created a standardized munition type/size (inspired by missiles and the cannons with a variable load type) to make cannons a bit more in line with each other. As well as helping on my house rules for creating vehicles.

[Nox Equites]

Ancient Artillery pieces could really ruin the day of a CS unit. 155mm can wreck you from beyond short range missile range. Indirect fire with good FOs can provide great surprise. A 4.2 inch mortar has plenty of options for ammo type. Howitzers in direct fire mode can use kinetic rounds to good effect. HEAT, Plasma and Frag rounds would have damage somewhere around medium range missiles. Sure the range is limited compared to those same missiles and it is unguided, but that is an advantage because no one has a good counter battery to respond. Shoot and scoot mobile artillery are good for trashing your foes without them having a good response. Most direct fire weapons in CS armory are designed for a much shorter engagement range better for urban or rough country than the open terrain of the great plains.

[taalismn]

Ancient Artillery pieces could really ruin the day of a CS unit. 155mm can wreck you from beyond short range missile range. Indirect fire with good FOs can provide great surprise. A 4.2 inch mortar has plenty of options for ammo type. Howitzers in direct fire mode can use kinetic rounds to good effect. HEAT, Plasma and Frag rounds would have damage somewhere around medium range missiles. Sure the range is limited compared to those same missiles and it is unguided, but that is an advantage because no one has a good counter battery to respond. Shoot and scoot mobile artillery are good for trashing your foes without them having a good response. Most direct fire weapons in CS armory are designed for a much shorter engagement range better for urban or rough country than the open terrain of the great plains.

That's why Ian Hogg's Twentieth-Century Artillery has a place of easy access beside my computer when writing. It's not a terribly technical guide(,ore like a quick and dirty catalogue overview), but it gives me some nice rough ideas of ranges and weights, and allows me to know where to narrow my search online for deeper info.

[glitterboy2098]

Ancient Artillery pieces could really ruin the day of a CS unit. 155mm can wreck you from beyond short range missile range. Indirect fire with good FOs can provide great surprise. A 4.2 inch mortar has plenty of options for ammo type. Howitzers in direct fire mode can use kinetic rounds to good effect. HEAT, Plasma and Frag rounds would have damage somewhere around medium range missiles. Sure the range is limited compared to those same missiles and it is unguided, but that is an advantage because no one has a good counter battery to respond. Shoot and scoot mobile artillery are good for trashing your foes without them having a good response. Most direct fire weapons in CS armory are designed for a much shorter engagement range better for urban or rough country than the open terrain of the great plains.

That's why Ian Hogg's Twentieth-Century Artillery has a place of easy access beside my computer when writing. It's not a terribly technical guide(,ore like a quick and dirty catalogue overview), but it gives me some nice rough ideas of ranges and weights, and allows me to know where to narrow my search online for deeper info.

i have several books of the sort for aviation, ground units, and naval vessels in my reference library. i recently refound my book on the Israeli defense forces.. it's a mid 90's work so a bit dated, but still useful.

[taalismn]

[

i have several books of the sort for aviation, ground units, and naval vessels in my reference library. i recently refound my book on the Israeli defense forces.. it's a mid 90's work so a bit dated, but still useful.

A good library is the best arsenal.

[Mlp7029]

I use the helicopters, M-48s or sometimes M-60s, and the 75mm pack howitzers at VFWs as early constructions by Techno-Wizards, or Techno-Wizards that are recreating the past to be more effective in the present. In my games, New Lazlo's small defense force uses tanks, artillery, World War II aircraft along with older jet fighters plus a small amount of Northern Gun units equipped with TW gear. Rather then focus on the tremendous war machines that Tolkeen used, they try to employ magic as another force multiplier rather then as the main solution to all combat operations, or technology on with the major tech using powers. I also built a Lazlo based Techno Wizard US WW II marine unit complete with a World War II rebuilt Wasp class CVE and Fletcher destroyers, complete with missile arrays and TW equipment for my aborted sea campaign as well. Maybe I'll post them at some point,

I totally agree with your concept of magic as another force multiplier. It's the best multiplier because it can best be used to multiply the other multipliers like maneuver and protection. While the Juggernauts from Tolkeen were cool to read about they just look like Techowizardry but IMHO they are magical constructs not really TW. I am preparing a Tolkeen war campaign and the Juggrrnauts will have many of their weapons replaced with conventional energy weapons simply powered by electricity generated by the TW "elemental" reactor at the heart of a Juggernaut.

[Subjugator]

An ancient artillery piece wouldn't do squat against a CS squad unless it was using modern shells.

/Sub

[Nox Equites]

An ancient artillery piece wouldn't do squat against a CS squad unless it was using modern shells.

/Sub

And it is far cheaper to upgrade older artillery than recreate super science. If I can recondition a 155mm Paladin company for the cost of one SAMAS all hell will drop on an exposed infantry unit. The upgraded rounds easily compare to medium missiles. Even without ammo upgrade the artillery can do minor MD, say 3d6 with a 30ft radius that will rattle even the new fancy body armor with a barrage. Even the CS is willing to use conventional cannon artillery on her ships where most of the upgrade is ammo, not barrel. This doesn't count big mother pieces like 16in guns.