WP Sharpshooting and aimed shots

[alogan]

I've got a couple of questions about sharpshooting skills from New West.

1) The sharpshooter's CALLED SHOT is listed as taking 2 actions. The sharpshooter's AIMED SHOT is not. Normally an aimed shot is 2 actions. Are sharpshooter's AIMED shots only 1 action?

2) If a sharpshooter takes 2 actions for a called shot, when is the shot fired? Does the shooter a) have to wait for the second action to fire the gun, b) is the second action subtracted from his total actions left that round, or c) does the shooter skip his second action in that round? I particularly want to know due to how this would affect a 'showdown' situation--you're going to lose pretty easily if your waiting for your second action to kick in before you can fire your first if you're trying for strike bonuses from a called shot.

[eliakon]

1) In RUE all Called Shots are 2 actions, and all Aimed Shots are 2 actions. All Aimed Called Shots are 3 actions. The fact that they explicitly note that the Called Shot follows format does not mean that they do not follow format elsewhere.
2) WHEN the shot goes off is a matter of debate. *I* make it go off in the second/third action (Which I believe is what was intended) which simulates you having to take time to aim. Otherwise you get the silly result of taking careful aim.....ten seconds after you take the shot.

[alogan]

1) In RUE all Called Shots are 2 actions, and all Aimed Shots are 2 actions. All Aimed Called Shots are 3 actions. The fact that they explicitly note that the Called Shot follows format does not mean that they do not follow format elsewhere.
2) WHEN the shot goes off is a matter of debate. *I* make it go off in the second/third action (Which I believe is what was intended) which simulates you having to take time to aim. Otherwise you get the silly result of taking careful aim.....ten seconds after you take the shot.

It's a little more confusing when you read the text. Quote from the end of the Sharpshooter CALLED shot description: ..."this special called shot counts as two melee attacks/actions. Aimed shots only." This seems to say that the sharpshooter called shot is an Aimed Called Shot that takes 2 actions rather than the typical 3 actions. That then opens up the possibility that an Sharpshooter Aimed Shot could be 1 action...but it doesn't explicitly state one way or another.

Fortunately, I'm sure that this must be the only ambiguous combat rule in the Palladium System and that an official clarification will come out post-haste. In addition, the meaning of said clarification of the ambiguous combat rule will not be continued to be argued about over these forums for years to come...it would be CRAZY for stuff like to continue to go on in a game system that's over two decades old, wouldn't it?

[PigLickJF]

1) In RUE all Called Shots are 2 actions, and all Aimed Shots are 2 actions. All Aimed Called Shots are 3 actions. The fact that they explicitly note that the Called Shot follows format does not mean that they do not follow format elsewhere.
2) WHEN the shot goes off is a matter of debate. *I* make it go off in the second/third action (Which I believe is what was intended) which simulates you having to take time to aim. Otherwise you get the silly result of taking careful aim.....ten seconds after you take the shot.

It's a little more confusing when you read the text. Quote from the end of the Sharpshooter CALLED shot description: ..."this special called shot counts as two melee attacks/actions. Aimed shots only." This seems to say that the sharpshooter called shot is an Aimed Called Shot that takes 2 actions rather than the typical 3 actions. That then opens up the possibility that an Sharpshooter Aimed Shot could be 1 action...but it doesn't explicitly state one way or another.

Fortunately, I'm sure that this must be the only ambiguous combat rule in the Palladium System and that an official clarification will come out post-haste. In addition, the meaning of said clarification of the ambiguous combat rule will not be continued to be argued about over these forums for years to come...it would be CRAZY for stuff like to continue to go on in a game system that's over two decades old, wouldn't it?

Much (though probably not all) of the confusion comes from the fact that Sharpshooting was written under the old (pre-RUE) rules, in which neither called nor aimed shots took extra actions. For whatever reason, Sharpshooting wasn't included with the updated rules in RUE, so it's unclear how the two interact.

If you like the RUE rules, stick to them and add the appropriate bonuses (i.e. aimed shot is 2 actions with the aimed shot bonus, normal called shots are 2 actions with no special bonus, and aimed called shots are 3 attacks with the called shot bonus).

[Athos]

I've got a couple of questions about sharpshooting skills from New West.

1) The sharpshooter's CALLED SHOT is listed as taking 2 actions. The sharpshooter's AIMED SHOT is not. Normally an aimed shot is 2 actions. Are sharpshooter's AIMED shots only 1 action?

2) If a sharpshooter takes 2 actions for a called shot, when is the shot fired? Does the shooter a) have to wait for the second action to fire the gun, b) is the second action subtracted from his total actions left that round, or c) does the shooter skip his second action in that round? I particularly want to know due to how this would affect a 'showdown' situation--you're going to lose pretty easily if your waiting for your second action to kick in before you can fire your first if you're trying for strike bonuses from a called shot.

The rules are also in the first conversion book, which is where I first came across the idea of a "specialist" gunman, or sharpshooter. The way we have always done it, is that if you have sharpshooting WP for your weapon, then an aimed shot is one attack and a called shot, which gets the +3 aimed shot bonus, is 2 shots. The shot is just like any other two action attack and happens on the first action, and two actions are subtracted from your total for that melee round. So if you have 6 actions per melee, you can fire 3 called shots during the melee round, just like they were normal attacks.

This makes sense to me for several reasons. One, Rifts does not distribute attacks based on initiative or number of attacks per melee, it is a simple formula: if it is your init, and you have an attack left, you get the option of attacking. Two, having spent 8 years in the army and having used assault weapons, it isn't really that much of a difference between firing a burst and aiming a single shot once you get proficient. Three, this uses up three skills, one for the original WP and two more for the sharpshooting, that means you have devoted a LOT of time to this weapon, so you should be better than the average joe with it.

You, if you are GMing, or your GM have the final say on how it works in your world. Rifts is a hodge-podge of rules spread over many books with very poor editing and very little consistency when it comes to things like this; it would be very nice if the GM Guide actually corrected these types of things. In fact, Palladium could probably do a whole book just on clarifications of the rules.

[alogan]

Rifts is a hodge-podge of rules spread over many books with very poor editing and very little consistency when it comes to things like this; it would be very nice if the GM Guide actually corrected these types of things. In fact, Palladium could probably do a whole book just on clarifications of the rules.

BEST selling title they'd ever have. E-V-E-R.

[drewkitty ~..~]

I've got a couple of questions about sharpshooting skills from New West.

1) The sharpshooter's CALLED SHOT is listed as taking 2 actions. The sharpshooter's AIMED SHOT is not. Normally an aimed shot is 2 actions. Are sharpshooter's AIMED shots only 1 action?

2) If a sharpshooter takes 2 actions for a called shot, when is the shot fired? Does the shooter a) have to wait for the second action to fire the gun, b) is the second action subtracted from his total actions left that round, or c) does the shooter skip his second action in that round? I particularly want to know due to how this would affect a 'showdown' situation--you're going to lose pretty easily if your waiting for your second action to kick in before you can fire your first if you're trying for strike bonuses from a called shot.

Item: The New West book was written for the RMB canon modern weapon rules not the RUE Canon modern weapon rules. That is why there is an apparent discontinuity in the rules.

[Alrik Vas]

Rifts is a hodge-podge of rules spread over many books with very poor editing and very little consistency when it comes to things like this; it would be very nice if the GM Guide actually corrected these types of things. In fact, Palladium could probably do a whole book just on clarifications of the rules.

BEST selling title they'd ever have. E-V-E-R.

Entire forum summed up in a single sentence.

[wakiza]

Here is another short discussion on the topic:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=129529

[Tor]

I liked how Rifts originally had all called shots be aimed shots... it sort of makes sense... I mean... how can you call a location if you're not aiming?

What is being referred to as 'aimed' now ought to be called something like 'paused' or 'steadied' shot, spending an action to get an added strike bonus.

I mean heck, even with Wild shots, you're still aiming, to call something 'aimed' implies other things are not aimed, but clearly everything is.

If a shot wasn't being aimed then you'd be rolling random chance to see what direction you fired in and what targets got hit.

Even sprays still have a primary target.