Attacks and actions for untrained HtH

[HerbN]

Okay, using both the RGMG and RUE I'm a little confused.

The attacks and actions seem to be:

1. One attack or two actions.
3. +1 attack and +1 action (which would seem to be five actions)
6. +2 actions (for seven at this point)
9. +1 attack and +1 action for 3 attacks/8 actions.

Both make clear that each attack eats up two actions. RGMG, however, makes it clear the untrained character has six actions with can be used to make up to 3 attacks or a combination of actions and attacks such that # of actions take + (# of attacks made x 2) <= 6.

So, if I read it as two actions are spent for each attack and there is a limit on conversion we get but the limit does not imply any new actions:

1. 2 actions and no more than 1 attack (which uses all the actions)
3. 3 actions and no more than 2 attacks (which would cost 4 actions and thus isn't possible)
6. 5 actions but still no more than 2 attacks.
9. 6 actions but no more than 3 attacks.

Which seems reasonable except #3 is broke because unless there is a "bonus" action for making two attacks it's really 3 actions or 1 attack + 1 action.

I know prior to RGMG it was:

1. 1 attack
3. 2 attacks
9. 3 attacks.

Is it possible that the additional actions for levels 3 and 6 are reversed and it should be:

1. 2 actions
3. +2 actions
6. +1 action
9. +1 action

With at any time actions are convertible to attacks on a 2:1 basis?

I'm asking both for any guidance on an official rule (or as close to as we can get) as well as how you play it.

I'm inclined to the last tree: 2/4/5/6 works best.

[Glistam]

I never understood how "no HTH" was supposed to work with PC's. Luckily I've never had to deal with it.

[Proseksword]

Presumably, RIFTs Ultimate Edition supersedes the RIFTs Game Master Guide, just like the rules for modern combat found in RUE supersede those found in RGMG.

[HerbN]

Presumably, RIFTs Ultimate Edition supersedes the RIFTs Game Master Guide, just like the rules for modern combat found in RUE supersede those found in RGMG.

The rules are a cut and paste job whose only difference is to omit the example of a level 9 character without HtH training can do. I'm not sure how a less complete explanation superseding a more complete one helps explain an inconsistency in the more complete one.

[Alrik Vas]

Herb, I don't think there's an issue with converting on a 2:1 basis. The whole "non combat actions" thing is kind of laughable. I mean, the problem it causes with trained characters who suddenly want to to non-combat actions is a whole can of worms I don't even want to look at.

[HerbN]

Herb, I don't think there's an issue with converting on a 2:1 basis. The whole "non combat actions" thing is kind of laughable. I mean, the problem it causes with trained characters who suddenly want to to non-combat actions is a whole can of worms I don't even want to look at.

Well, with RUE tying spell casting to attacks/actions it makes a big difference to mages. At level one being able to cast two low level spells, once each time initiative comes around, is a big advantages to casting one. In fact, if it wasn't for casting I wouldn't care.

Has anyone experimented with giving untrained characters TAFL and no increases ever?

[Tor]

The 2:1 stuff is junk and causes problems, better to just give a net amount of bonus non-combat actions, or else only track non-combat and allow 2 to be spent for 1 normal hit.

I wonder how much that makes a power punch cost... 4?