Gods Among Men - Pantheons in Rifts Earth

[SolCannibal]

or Njord could be working with the Whales and other groups to destroy the LotD.. heck, i think it might be fun if Njord's company, pre-rifts, helped build the Tico..

Or more bizarrely and taking the text at face value, Njord's shipbuilding empire and business still survive in Rifts Earth in some shape or format though not clearly mentioned as such - maybe something related to the piratical groups of the Great Lakes, or maybe he's connected with Karkhon's pirate empire from South America?

[Tor]

has the Ticonderoga declared itself unsinkable or somesuch?

I'm sure lots of people have called it that. It's not as if every victim on the Titanic was saying stuff like that, so Njord is willing to let innocents die because some people boast.

[SolCannibal]

has the Ticonderoga declared itself unsinkable or somesuch?

I'm sure lots of people have called it that. It's not as if every victim on the Titanic was saying stuff like that, so Njord is willing to let innocents die because some people boast.

Well, the Titanic is infamous for the declaration, one that was even official and everything. That goes at least a little beyond some captain's boast, extremism of retribution notwithstanding.

[Svartalf]

That guy is probably working with Lord of the Deep to try and sink the Ticonderoga or something.

Depends, has the Ticonderoga declared itself unsinkable or somesuch?

As long as the guys sell their image well Njord might even help - he has always cared far more for sailors, explorers and navigators than sea creatures.

Indeed, Njord is a god of sailors, as opposed to Aegir and Ran who incarnate the cruel sea.

[SolCannibal]

That guy is probably working with Lord of the Deep to try and sink the Ticonderoga or something.

Depends, has the Ticonderoga declared itself unsinkable or somesuch?

As long as the guys sell their image well Njord might even help - he has always cared far more for sailors, explorers and navigators than sea creatures.

Indeed, Njord is a god of sailors, as opposed to Aegir and Ran who incarnate the cruel sea.

Indeed, though they can also be quite welcoming hosts, as the feast at the center of the Lokasenna goes to show.

Truth be told the dynamics of the relations between the norse gods and the giants is full of ups and downs, not to mention minglings like Skadi's union with Njordr or Freyr's with Gerd and Loki himself who's of Jottun origins and had his most infamous children with another, Angrboda, not to mention all the disputes and bets with which gods and giants frequently get each other in trouble.

Not to mention the whole "two pantheons that joined in one/exchanged hostages after a war" angle with the Vanir and the saying of the Vafþrúðnismál, with their implication that while the gods fall, Njordr shall fare(sail) home on his own once more, among other curious mythic things that in the Megaverse might relate to either them, their counterparts from Dragons & Gods or some other group of deities (or monsters, like Loki-G) that could have gotten themselves added to the mix.

Incidentally, does Mystic Russia or any other Rifts book speak of Perun, Veles and other slavic deities? I have seen stuff here and there that make them another potential alternative for such confusion...

[glitterboy2098]

IIRC the slavic gods got a rifter article. looking at the nexus nine rifter index.. rifter 6?
and it is labelled as official/canon material

[SolCannibal]

IIRC the slavic gods got a rifter article. looking at the nexus nine rifter index.. rifter 6?
and it is labelled as official/canon material

Probably worth a look at least.

Now that i think of it, the matter of the Vanir among the Aesir may or not have a bit of the "vedic x brahmanic" undercurrent of tension that goes between the gods of India in PoM. Or could be something even more complicated, considering most gods actually married to giantesses are Vanir and Njord came along with a female companion that seems to have disappeared and been mostly forgotten. Checking out Pantheons for ideas of how to mix, match and adapt may be fun.

[Svartalf]

The article on Slavic Gods in Rifter 6 was cut from Mystic Russia and has official status.

[SolCannibal]

Ah, had almost forgotten the chapter on the Aztec Gods in Pantheons mentions the following:

"The Yucatan peninsula, has become a giant gateway to the dimension of the ancient Mayan pantheons. The Aztec gods, led by Tezcatlipoca, have tried to take over Yucatan, but have been repelled by the Mayan deities, vampire intelligences and the myriad other races and peoples that control the land. The Aztec gods have regrouped and are concentrating on the Vampire Kingdoms in hope of ruling over them."

So, though we have no details in mayan deities beside Camazotz, they seem to have established themselves first - and kicked Tezcatlipoca & the aztecs' own advance out, who are now trying to recoup their losses through their deals with the vampires. No mean feat that, really.

[Tor]

Njord is a god of sailors, as opposed to Aegir and Ran who incarnate the cruel sea.

I don't think the Titanic had sails, and I don't recall seeing any on the Ticonderoga.

Perhaps Njord is offended when people cheat and use fuel and mechanics to power their ships instead of good old-fashioned wind or oars. It kinda takes the sport out of it.

Aztec gods, led by Tezcatlipoca, have tried to take over Yucatan, but have been repelled by the Mayan deities

no details in mayan deities beside Camazotz, they seem to have established themselves first - and kicked Tezcatlipoca & the aztecs' own advance out

That does sound pretty interesting...

Also since Rifts-Mictla was a member of the Aztecs some time back, perhaps he had conflict with the Mayans too.

Probably not FantasyDG-Mictla though, she's too busy being a weakling.

I wonder what Palladium-Mictla's take on this would be. It might want to eat Satan and evil Juggernaut.

[SolCannibal]

Njord is a god of sailors, as opposed to Aegir and Ran who incarnate the cruel sea.

I don't think the Titanic had sails, and I don't recall seeing any on the Ticonderoga.

Perhaps Njord is offended when people cheat and use fuel and mechanics to power their ships instead of good old-fashioned wind or oars. It kinda takes the sport out of it.

While it would be morbidly hilarious, it doesn't really look like Njord makes a point of separating "seamen from self-propeled ships" from "sailors" in general.
Otherwise everything from steamboats onwards would be boned.

Aztec gods, led by Tezcatlipoca, have tried to take over Yucatan, but have been repelled by the Mayan deities

no details in mayan deities beside Camazotz, they seem to have established themselves first - and kicked Tezcatlipoca & the aztecs' own advance out

That does sound pretty interesting...

Also since Rifts-Mictla was a member of the Aztecs some time back, perhaps he had conflict with the Mayans too.

Probably not FantasyDG-Mictla though, she's too busy being a weakling.

I wonder what Palladium-Mictla's take on this would be. It might want to eat Satan and evil Juggernaut.

Interestingly, PoM has some stuff to say on Conversion Book's Mictla.

Allies: Tezcatlipoca works closely with Tlaloc, Huitzilopochtli and Xipe Totec. He occasionally associates with demons, vampires and Mictla, the Aztec ruler of the Underworld. Worshippers include werebeasts, many monster races, lesser demons and evil humanoids.

The dog-headed god Xolotl has accompanied Quetzalcoatl on many quests, including a heroic trip to the realm of Mictla, demon ruler of the Underworld. The two friends enjoyed vanquishing Mictla, weakening his power, but victory was short lived for his defeat inadvertently helped the current ruler of Hades, Asmodeus, rise to power.

This seems to clearly relate him to the Aztec gods at least, but it ain't all.

Yama is also secretly conspiring with Mictla (see Rifts Conversion Book One), the former supreme ruler of Hades. The two are thinking of ways to wrestle control of Hades from Modeus and to lead all the demons of Hades in a diabolic crusade against the Forces of Light. This is a long-term plan that neither god is planning to enact for centuries, if ever.

Allies: Hel is on good terms with two Splugorth lords (this won't last if her involvement with the Mechanoids is discovered), and Mictla
the Devourer, an Aztec god who used to lord over Infernal Hades (see Rifts Conversion Book One, page 220).

Incidentally this gives an impression that Mictla though not really in power anymore is more active in interdimensional diplomacy/intrigue than Conversion Book's Modeus, that is mostly non-agressive but distrusting towards "other rulers of Hades", in particular Ravana and Kansa.

[Tor]

We got a Lilith in Nightlands and a Lilith in Pantheons, so it's neat to think the Mictla in PF may differ from the Mictla in Rifts. Sort of like how there is a Mephisto in Rifts and a Mephisto in PF.

[SolCannibal]

We got a Lilith in Nightlands and a Lilith in Pantheons, so it's neat to think the Mictla in PF may differ from the Mictla in Rifts. Sort of like how there is a Mephisto in Rifts and a Mephisto in PF.

Yes, though Nightbane's Lilith seems to be more a case of a sorceress (nightlord) adopting the name of a mythic being as moniker, not to mention D&G implying the Conversion Book's Mephisto is someone impersonating the real thing on Rifts Earth, it does fit a theme of the identity of several supernatural beings getting mixed up.

PS: Gave a quick look at the skills of note from both, just because. D&G's Mephisto has "Interrogation techniques, surveillance, palming, card shark, streetwise and all espionage skills at 92%" a package that makes him something like the ultimate bad/undercover cop or street scum. Meanwhile Conversion Book's "Mephisto" has, beside literacy in a number of languages and some other things, "basic and advanced math & operate computer 98%, writing, art & dance 90%, computer programming 85%, computer hacking 65%". And i must admit i find the idea of a "40 foot mound of flesh with ten tentacles and twenty eyes" of an alien intelligence with a deep love for art, dance and computer nerdery (with possibly high-level fanfiction involved) immensely entertaining.

[Tor]

Nightlady and Darota are both pretty old beings, does not seem clear to me which is older.

As for dancing 40 feet mounds of flesh, well, that is why we have metamorphosis spells.

Cormal may learn to love to Waltz.

[SolCannibal]

Nightlady and Darota are both pretty old beings, does not seem clear to me which is older.

AFAIK - correct me if i'm wrong - the Nightlords as a group are survivors or descendants of their own world's fall of Atlantis. Meanwhile, Apsu's write-up in PoM implies that he, Tiamat and their ilk arrived in Rifts Earth at a time "where some of the earliest known civilizations were beginning. Atlantis already existed, but Apsu did not want to face determined opposition this early on." Going with these two bits of data, it's feasible to infer the demon is most probably the older one.

As for dancing 40 feet mounds of flesh, well, that is why we have metamorphosis spells.

Cormal may learn to love to Waltz.

Why should one body type have monopoly or precedence of the art? That's prejudiced humanoid-centric thinking over a being's artistic sensibilities!

[taalismn]

[ And i must admit i find the idea of a "40 foot mound of flesh with ten tentacles and twenty eyes" of an alien intelligence with a deep love for art, dance and computer nerdery (with possibly high-level fanfiction involved) immensely entertaining.

The waltzing of an Alien intelligence across several levels of reality simultaneously is a Thing of Power.
It's not 'Dancing With the Stars', it's 'Dancing Among the Stars'. Maybe even IN them.

[glitterboy2098]

[ And i must admit i find the idea of a "40 foot mound of flesh with ten tentacles and twenty eyes" of an alien intelligence with a deep love for art, dance and computer nerdery (with possibly high-level fanfiction involved) immensely entertaining.

The waltzing of an Alien intelligence across several levels of reality simultaneously is a Thing of Power.
It's not 'Dancing With the Stars', it's 'Dancing Among the Stars'. Maybe even IN them.

http://www.goominet.com/unspeakable-vault/vault/97/

[SolCannibal]

[ And i must admit i find the idea of a "40 foot mound of flesh with ten tentacles and twenty eyes" of an alien intelligence with a deep love for art, dance and computer nerdery (with possibly high-level fanfiction involved) immensely entertaining.

The waltzing of an Alien intelligence across several levels of reality simultaneously is a Thing of Power.
It's not 'Dancing With the Stars', it's 'Dancing Among the Stars'. Maybe even IN them.

http://www.goominet.com/unspeakable-vault/vault/97/

Also...

[SolCannibal]

As an aside, i just remembered Dragon & Gods has some stuff to say on Thoth's familiarity with and resources on Rifts® Earth:

He has already been there and knows plenty about it. There's something he likes about the Splugorth and he finds Pharaoh Rama-Set to be a very interesting fellow. He also gets along with Mrrlynn (yes, Thoth knows he is an alien intelligence) and Lord Splynncryth.

He has assembled his own base of power, and has at his disposal 300 rune statues, 100 TW modified Dyna-Bots (Triax), and a variety of diverse servants and assistants under his employ. They include a True Atlantean, a Splugorth High Lord, Kryanthal the Thunder Lizard (adult, 10th level techno-wizard), Lyphan the Great White Sphinx (legendary albino, 13th level alchemist and spell caster/diabolist/herbologist/wizard), a dozen loyal Zembahk, a pair of Shaydor Spherians, a dozen Adarok flying mountains, an anarchist Za, and 20 full conversion borgs.

As an aside i'm a little curious about the kind of crazy overpowered TW freaks these 20 full conversion borgs might or not be.

PS. Little bits here and there make it clear that D&G's Thoth (and most probably his pantheon colleagues, though i didn't check them as much) is intended as an update/revised version on the stats originally given in Rifts Africa.

[Tor]

AFAIK - correct me if i'm wrong - the Nightlords as a group are survivors or descendants of their own world's fall of Atlantis

I don't remember Atlantis being specified like that.

If we could find out when Atlantis was around and then compare it to when the Nightlords were around that could give an answer.

Apsu's write-up in PoM implies that he, Tiamat and their ilk arrived in Rifts Earth at a time "where some of the earliest known civilizations were beginning.

Atlantis already existed, but Apsu did not want to face determined opposition this early on."

Going with these two bits of data, it's feasible to infer the demon is most probably the older one.

Were she a core member of Apsu's pantheon I'd agree but she seems like one of those minions who might've joined later on.

That said she is described as serving both of them, and changing her game after "the fall of her masters" so I think we can know she was at least around as far back as Apsu's fall, which came before Tiamat.

Little bits here and there make it clear that D&G's Thoth (and most probably his pantheon colleagues, though i didn't check them as much) is intended as an update/revised version on the stats originally given in Rifts Africa.

We are blind men and he is an elephant. Africa is us thinking he is a pillar, D+G is us thinking he is a rope, but we have only seen a tail and one leg. We don't even know about he drunk, the ear, or the belly.

Neither, or even the sum of both, could reasonably be Thoth's entire stats. They are just the ones most significant to mention in each dimension. Particularly when we realize the frightening reality of his deific power. He would basically have almost every OCC in existence, so long as a single worshipper had the OCC he could copy it in full.

The only consolation, I hope, is that PERHAPS if it qualifies as an 'active' power that maybe he might lose the OCC if his follower dies (and he could prevent that with the "curse" of Immortality, or simply resurrect them) or if 'Dispel Deific Power' were used as an attack against him, perhaps it might sever his connection to a worshipper and make him lose their OCC and have to re-copy it.

That's just what I hope though... for all I know it's a permanent copy that lasts after the death of the worshipper and there's no way to dispel the knowledge he gains.

[taalismn]

Good call and well-stated, Tor.
Alien Intelligences are icebergs, and we're only seeing what's above our water's surface. Or, we might look to the classic Flatland, where we're the flatlanders, and they are spheres; we can only perceive a thin slice of them in our plane of existence.

[SolCannibal]

AFAIK - correct me if i'm wrong - the Nightlords as a group are survivors or descendants of their own world's fall of Atlantis

I don't remember Atlantis being specified like that.

If we could find out when Atlantis was around and then compare it to when the Nightlords were around that could give an answer.

Apsu's write-up in PoM implies that he, Tiamat and their ilk arrived in Rifts Earth at a time "where some of the earliest known civilizations were beginning.

Atlantis already existed, but Apsu did not want to face determined opposition this early on."

Going with these two bits of data, it's feasible to infer the demon is most probably the older one.

Were she a core member of Apsu's pantheon I'd agree but she seems like one of those minions who might've joined later on.

That said she is described as serving both of them, and changing her game after "the fall of her masters" so I think we can know she was at least around as far back as Apsu's fall, which came before Tiamat.

Little bits here and there make it clear that D&G's Thoth (and most probably his pantheon colleagues, though i didn't check them as much) is intended as an update/revised version on the stats originally given in Rifts Africa.

We are blind men and he is an elephant. Africa is us thinking he is a pillar, D+G is us thinking he is a rope, but we have only seen a tail and one leg. We don't even know about he drunk, the ear, or the belly.

Neither, or even the sum of both, could reasonably be Thoth's entire stats. They are just the ones most significant to mention in each dimension. Particularly when we realize the frightening reality of his deific power. He would basically have almost every OCC in existence, so long as a single worshipper had the OCC he could copy it in full.

The only consolation, I hope, is that PERHAPS if it qualifies as an 'active' power that maybe he might lose the OCC if his follower dies (and he could prevent that with the "curse" of Immortality, or simply resurrect them) or if 'Dispel Deific Power' were used as an attack against him, perhaps it might sever his connection to a worshipper and make him lose their OCC and have to re-copy it.

That's just what I hope though... for all I know it's a permanent copy that lasts after the death of the worshipper and there's no way to dispel the knowledge he gains.

Very valid way of getting around "edition conflicts" where it comes to this kind of NPC, can't deny it's a very practical view to work with.

[Bill]

I wish we could get a few forum members to work up a hundred or so alien and otherwise original deities. I'd participate if a thread were started. I'm probably only good for three or four decent write-ups of that nature though.

[taalismn]

I wish we could get a few forum members to work up a hundred or so alien and otherwise original deities. I'd participate if a thread were started. I'm probably only good for three or four decent write-ups of that nature though.

I got about a dozen domestic deities in write-up/work-up, but, they're based on mythology, rather than original concepts(there I got about four or five in write-up, but they ain't ready to fly yet).

[Bill]

18 more volunteers and we're in business!

[SolCannibal]

A topic on homebrew gods and maybe some pantheons and realms could certainly be interesting, count me in too.

[Tor]

One thing that comes to mind in the new dimension books, where a Shifter in service to Thoth is scouting out Hades/Dyval. Thoth was never given the Shifter OCC, but now we can assume he has it at at least first level (unless we eventually get Alex's stats, that'd be cool) which compliments his being given the Summoner OCC in D+G.

[Library Ogre]

Not gonna lie - I really want to see the Greek gods come back and become players in the Mediterranean. There aren't anywhere near enough details on southern and western Europe. I've had my fill of the NGR and Gargoyles, can we write something interesting for England, France, Italy and Greece?

England could be very interesting, if the NDR were to set up missile bases there. Help bolster the throne in Camelot, set up some Triax subsidiaries to build long-range missiles to shoot at the Gargoyles from Middlesex.

I think Italy and Greece become very interesting due to the dimensional instability there, which any serious work is going to have to take into account.

[Tor]

I really want to see the Greek gods come back and become players in the Mediterranean.

Well Zeus is already messing with Atlantis via arming his daughter with Cyclops-Bolts, so him throwing a wedge in between the trade going on between Gargoyle Empire in Europe and Phoenix Empire in Africa (both of which Atlantis is involved in) could be plausible. Both places are probably a source of slave recruitment before they're sent to Atlantis.

Those big slave ships (either Underseas or South America had them I think) the Splugorth use (or the Horune) could be targets of trade between Gargs/Phoenix.

[SolCannibal]

The article on Slavic Gods in Rifter 6 was cut from Mystic Russia and has official status.

Finally got to read the Rifter 6 article and while Perun is there, i deeply missed the lack of Veles or World Tree references...

[say652]

Thor and Loki also have ventured through Atlantis.
Hela is trying to become a Mechanoid?!?!
Ares is said to frequent battlefields.
I think he would be supremely powerful in warlike Rifts Earth.

[SolCannibal]

Ares is said to frequent battlefields.
I think he would be supremely powerful in warlike Rifts Earth.

Don't really see why would he be particularly better off than a bunch of other war gods that may be out and about, specially without some actual agenda.

[eliakon]

Thor and Loki also have ventured through Atlantis.
Hela is trying to become a Mechanoid?!?!
Ares is said to frequent battlefields.
I think he would be supremely powerful in warlike Rifts Earth.

Unless he has worshipers though....
I mean he is the Greek god of war, not the incarnation of war itself. So he doesn't draw power from wars but power from his worshipers. He would be no more powerful on Rifts earth than any other world (and in fact by the books he would be weaker here due to the lack of worshipers.....)

[glitterboy2098]

if anything, the Norse gods would have a better chance of getting a toehold, given the (globally small but) strong neo-pagan movement pre-rifts.
so Odin, Tyr, Thor, and the like would probably have more followers post-rifts than the greeks do..

especially since the greek pantheon is a double sided weapon in the mythologies.. for every good thing they do they seem to do something really bad twice as often. they are real jerks in the mythology some times.
(the Norse ones can be pretty mean too, but generally in a more "collateral damage" way instead of actively being mean.. and the worst of the stuff the norse do is usually within the pantheon, not aimed at their followers.)