Megaverse In Flames review

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Megaverse In Flames review

Unread post by keir451 »

MEGAVERSE IN FLAMES: Well I received my copy this past Wednesday, quite promptly (thank you), and what I saw satisfied me quite well (for the most part ;) ). I will break this review down to Fluff, Art, Toys and "Issues". Ready? Ok, here we go!

1) Fluff: Suprisingly there was relatively little fluff text but what there was was well done. The "communications/reports" from the front lines were well done and set the tone quite well. The descripitions of the various groups and the addition of the Minion War having spilled over through time, and having had an impact upon the bygone days of Chaos Earth links the past and the future together quite well .
The Seven Hell plagues were a very nice touch, I thought, as they really give one the idea that this is indeed a WAR, not some random demon incursion. They allow for the possibilty that ANYONE can become infected WITHOUT making it a total "**** You, you're screwed with out any recourse".
Calgary, City of Monsters!: Finally, other than brief, tantalizing mentions elsewhere we truly get to "know" this city and the role it plays in this invasion. The Demon forces are well laid out and present a definite challenge to small groups without feeling that you're totally outclassed. * See Addendums for my thoughts on forces strength vs. the CS military.

2) Art: Chuck Walton's art was, as usual, EXCELLENT!! The artwork for the vehicles and weapons was well done, too. But Mr. Walton was not the only artist present, Bradshaw's art was also fairly well done, there were on or two pieces that didn't quite ring right to me, but over all he did good work.
In the end I feel that all the artists did an excellent job capturing the feel of the story.

3) Toys: NEW TOYS!!! Yes, the Demons now have actual weapons and equipment that makes them even more of a threat to those that rely solely on technology and an even greater threat to non-tech users. I especially like the BEW Meat Grinder Tank and BEW Carnage Tank, while they are strong units, they're not too over powering and will make for excellent challenges.

4) Issues: Over all I didn't find too much to complain about, I felt that Mr. Gleba did a very good job of outlining how most of the Powers That Be will respond to the coming threat. The areas I, personally, disagree with him are the New Navy and the Republicans and A.R.C.H.I.E.- 3

The New Navy: While the New Navy may be intially unaware of the Minion War, their own Intelligence services would soon get that inforamtion form any number of demons or sub-minions that they might capture and interrogate. They wouild be paying close attention to the CS and other North American forces and woul be aware of the massive demon incursion almost immediately. I do not see the New Navy sitting idly by if there is suddenly an increased presence of Hell Galleons or other demonic forces appearing on the oceans. I believe they would actively oppose them and begin a very serious build up of their naval forces.

The Republicans: Despite the Machiavellian machinations of the so-called "Director" I think that the Republicans would quickly realize that the Demons are a far greater threat than their long standing grudge against A.R.C.H.I.E-3 and would quickly start gearing up to confront this threat. It may even cause them to "remove" the Director (GODS, I HOPE SO!!) and refocus their energies in a more positive direction.

A.R.C.H.I.E.- 3: Archie, as a military AI, would take some time, intially, to asses his foes weakeness and battle strategems and then he and Hagan would roll out a brand new force of robots to stomp the demon forces into the ground, even if this means allying himself (temporarily) with the Splugorth. Also Hagan has been Archie's partner since before Plato's warning to the various forces and would be well aware of the Edict of Planetary Distress.

Reprinting the Anti-Monster O.C.C.: A couple of times during the Epilogue other books are given due reference as sections concernng them are mentioned. However we did NOT need the ENTIRE Anti-Monster O.C.C. reprinted when a simple reference to South America 1 with page number attached would have sufficed. This was not needed AT ALL! This was just a waste of paper and space. I do not blame Carl at all for this mistake as it clearly has the feel of Kevin's handiwork.

Coalition States, Heroes of Humanity: We already understand this so do we really need another Tolkeen War style book? Aslo the CS's equipment is BRAND NEW and has survived the ultimate test, an actual war, so there's no real reason to write new book featuring "new" CS equipment, IMO.

Addendums: I feel that setting the first demon incursion dircetly on the heels of the Tolkeen War is not a good concept.
I, myself, choose to set it a year later in 110 P.A., thus giving the CS time to lick their wounds a bit and begin to recuperate.
I also disagree with the representation of Free Quebec as having no experience fighting demons & monsters. World Book 22 does actually state that FQ has fought many times against demons and monsters over the years of the Dark Ages and it is due, literally, to the Glitter Force that they've survived as long as they have.
Triax, too, has been fighting against various types of demons and monsters for years and according to Triax 2, they recently fought a major battle againt the Gargoyles with the aid of the CS so the Gargoyles are in no position to be a threat to anyone right now.
I like the various demon armies and their leaders but I feel that the numbers are too small to pose a serious threat to the CS's millions of troops. Especially troops that so recently had the experience of fighting the Tolkeen forces. I recommend multiplying the Demon numbers by a factor of ten. This makes them a more credible threat to the CS and allows any PC actions to have a greater effect, especailly if they can take down a Hell Pit or if they are instrumental in taking down a Hell Lord.

Conclusion: Despite my "complaints" I do believe that Megaverse In Flames, in a nutshell, is a good book that can add nicely to your campaign without overburdening it with overpowered creatures, machines or ridiculous across the board "Screw You's" that break the game. I WILL use it in my games and I fully expect to get good "mileage" out of the monsters and demons.
Have fun and Keep on Gaming! ;)
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Re: Megaverse In Flames review

Unread post by kaid »

I think free quebecs issue is since they don't use dog boys, psi stalkers or many psychics their gb legions are good at handling big invasion forces but demonic or devil infiltration is going to bite them worse than pretty much any of the major powers. That said I cannot believe any major power on rifts earth is that inexperienced in supernatural threats but FQ of all the major powers is more vulnerable.

Rifts Europe is going to be a total mess. Its going to be devil on gargoyle, devil on demon, gargoyle on demon, gargoyle on gargoyle and triax against all of them. Most of the demon forces in Europe figure hey gargoyles are our mininos so I will just go assert dominance and have a HUGE force and wipe out everything and claim victory. The problem is going to be after being top dogs for a long time I don't think most gargoyles in Europe are going to be willing to revert to lowly minion status. I could see the gargoyles actually crushing one or more of the invading forces because if anybody knows about what hell pits do it is minions of hades and they know what it will mean for them if they let any get established.

As for triax I am not sure influx of yet more demonic things really makes that much material difference than them they are already fighting for their life vs demons this would just be more of the same.

Then you have a demon and devil faction trying to make nice with the angel of death to try to win the hordes of brodkil to their factions cause but I think they all underestimate the big bag of crazy that is the angel of death. No treaty or deal with her is going to last that long because she is just to nuts to honor anything for to long before the voices in her head tell her to kill them. It would make for a fun adventure if the flare up winds up causing the warlords of russia and the sovietski to join forces with triax because they hear there is a roaring good fight going on and want part of the action.

As for archie and the lemurians both are very concerned about the demons but both have recently commited large amounts of forces/resources to the fight with the vampire kingdoms and they don't dare take their eye off that ball.


One nice thing about this conflict is I and a lot of my friends love tattoo men characters and the minion war is an excellent way to work them into normal adventures as splynn is angry as hell with the minion war and once the direct attacks on atlantis start he is going to be unleashing tons of his minions to fight demons and devils all over so good excuse for players to use these kinds of minions.
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Re: Megaverse In Flames review

Unread post by keir451 »

kaid wrote:I think free quebecs issue is since they don't use dog boys, psi stalkers or many psychics their gb legions are good at handling big invasion forces but demonic or devil infiltration is going to bite them worse than pretty much any of the major powers. That said I cannot believe any major power on rifts earth is that inexperienced in supernatural threats but FQ of all the major powers is more vulnerable.

Rifts Europe is going to be a total mess. Its going to be devil on gargoyle, devil on demon, gargoyle on demon, gargoyle on gargoyle and triax against all of them. Most of the demon forces in Europe figure hey gargoyles are our mininos so I will just go assert dominance and have a HUGE force and wipe out everything and claim victory. The problem is going to be after being top dogs for a long time I don't think most gargoyles in Europe are going to be willing to revert to lowly minion status. I could see the gargoyles actually crushing one or more of the invading forces because if anybody knows about what hell pits do it is minions of hades and they know what it will mean for them if they let any get established.

As for triax I am not sure influx of yet more demonic things really makes that much material difference than them they are already fighting for their life vs demons this would just be more of the same.

Then you have a demon and devil faction trying to make nice with the angel of death to try to win the hordes of brodkil to their factions cause but I think they all underestimate the big bag of crazy that is the angel of death. No treaty or deal with her is going to last that long because she is just to nuts to honor anything for to long before the voices in her head tell her to kill them. It would make for a fun adventure if the flare up winds up causing the warlords of russia and the sovietski to join forces with triax because they hear there is a roaring good fight going on and want part of the action.

As for archie and the lemurians both are very concerned about the demons but both have recently commited large amounts of forces/resources to the fight with the vampire kingdoms and they don't dare take their eye off that ball.


One nice thing about this conflict is I and a lot of my friends love tattoo men characters and the minion war is an excellent way to work them into normal adventures as splynn is angry as hell with the minion war and once the direct attacks on atlantis start he is going to be unleashing tons of his minions to fight demons and devils all over so good excuse for players to use these kinds of minions.

Good points Kaid, FQ certainly didn't get to where they are today by being slackers and while they're more vulnerable to certainsupernatural assaults than say, Chi-town, I'm sure they've got their own way of dealing with things. I'll certainly be interesting to play the effects of this invasion on the FQ forces and people.
Yeah the Brodkil forces under the Angel of Death are a bunch of serious nutjobs and I wouldn't put it past her to back stab the demons and Deevils just for the heck of it. It would be nice if the Russian Warlords joined forces with and if things get hairy enouhg that might actually happen, but I think Carl's got the right of it. They're too busy fighting each other to get involved with anything else and even the Sovietski would be leery of commiting forces to an "outside battle" out of concern that it may cause their enemies to think they're weak.
I haven't actually read the new Vampire Kingdoms book (I boycotted it), but Archie has the potential to send robotic reinforcements to certain groups and while he HATES the Splugorth with an undying passion (not that he'd admit to emotions) he might find this fight to be similar to the issue of the Mechanoids and decide to commit forces to the aid of Atlantis or some other group. What the vampires may not realize is that if they make an actual overt move that brings them out to the "light of day" (so ot speak) then that'll attract the attention of a WHOLE lot of people that would make them very, very dead. Especially if some of the champions of THIS fight garner the attentions of various Pantheons of Light, that could bring new and unwanted attention to Rifts Earth and their machinations.
Lemuria, to me, is still a bit of a question mark. They have alot of potential but I'm not sure what they can do as they are mostly seabound. It's most likely that they'll send small groups out when and where they can to provide aid and support but they may be too locked down with all the issues at sea to be able to send a larger force. Of course this is all conjecture as everyone's take is going to be different so we'll see how things turn out. :D
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Re: Megaverse In Flames review

Unread post by kaid »

I myself would use lemuria as a rare but potent reserve force for areas where stuff has gotten to far out of hand. All of the lemurian cities are triphibious they can go under on or above water. They also can port from nexus to nexus fast and easily so they could potentially have a city or two geared up for backstopping other powers that are under searious threat. Their biggest concern is understandable and that would be freaking out major powers by having two or three flying cities appear out of nowhere because as we all know friendly fire is not very friendly. Still they are one of the biggest forces that could in the worst emergencies drop extremely large high powered military forces anywhere in the world at nearly any time.


The lemurians biomancers are also one of the best geared to cure the various demon plagues and that in the end may be where they wind up making the biggest impact world wide. Between that and helping to if not defeat the vampire kingdoms at least "defang" them and knock them down to a more managable size it would keep them pretty active. The nice thing about the newest vampire book and the minion war is it makes a great way to help introduce the neat stuff from the lemurian book at least in small/reasonable numbers into the major play areas.
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Re: Megaverse In Flames review

Unread post by keir451 »

kaid wrote:I myself would use lemuria as a rare but potent reserve force for areas where stuff has gotten to far out of hand. All of the lemurian cities are triphibious they can go under on or above water. They also can port from nexus to nexus fast and easily so they could potentially have a city or two geared up for backstopping other powers that are under searious threat. Their biggest concern is understandable and that would be freaking out major powers by having two or three flying cities appear out of nowhere because as we all know friendly fire is not very friendly. Still they are one of the biggest forces that could in the worst emergencies drop extremely large high powered military forces anywhere in the world at nearly any time.


The lemurians biomancers are also one of the best geared to cure the various demon plagues and that in the end may be where they wind up making the biggest impact world wide. Between that and helping to if not defeat the vampire kingdoms at least "defang" them and knock them down to a more managable size it would keep them pretty active. The nice thing about the newest vampire book and the minion war is it makes a great way to help introduce the neat stuff from the lemurian book at least in small/reasonable numbers into the major play areas.

Yeah that could certainly work. In my settings I've got the New Navy finally trying to make contact with the Lemurians in an effort to create an Alliance of the major sea based nations with the intent of finally sticking it to the Nauty'll and others. Still and all this looks interesting and I'm gonna enjoy ruining PC's lives wiht these demon armies. :twisted:
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Re: Megaverse In Flames review

Unread post by Tor »

I'm reading the free "Sneak Preview" PDF at the moment...

Page 2 only gives a basic description of the cover art by Aradio. It says the CS is facing a "legion of demons from Hades" but no additional particulars.

I take it the elephant thing is an Infernal Mastadon from page 103 of Dimension Book 10... and I'm guessing behind it is a flock (murder?) of Gargoyles or something..

I can't seem to figure out what is riding the Mastadon though. Any ideas? Is it a new species of demon in WB35 or am I just forgetting one of the pre-existing breeds? Could this be a fancy-looking Alu Demon Bull or something?

Regarding the page 8 military report, I am disappointed with how the CS uses dates...

"12-21-109" just seems wrong to me. Month-Day-Year is such a casual presentation and not something I'd expect to see in a Golden-Age presentation. Particularly when getting so technical as to change the month into a number.

Something like 109-12-21 would look better to me. Or 21december109

Loving the RCSG reference, always a nice reminder that CS has literal ley-line-walkers (or floaters) amongst their non-psychic scientists, and people are find with this.

Does MiF at some point explain what class 2/3/4 demons are in CS terms? Wasn't sure what this referred to. It mentions on the next page that entities are 'class 1', and that war steeds are 'class 4'. Wondering if another book if not this one goes into more detail about these classes.

Page 10 switches from discussing class 2-4 to discussing class 3-5, so this makes me wonder why there was a distinctive drop in class 2s and a substitution of class 5s, and what these numbers indicate about the shift in conflict during December 21st (just realized, solstice)

Interesting to note that CS appears to be aware of Hades-dimension and specific Demon residents but not of Dyval and their Dyvalian ("Deevil") residents. Dyval is new on the PF scene compared to demons but I figured they'd been around long enough to achieve equal recognition. Perhaps they have, but their approach is more cued to subtlety (similar to their CCW infiltration in Three Galaxies) so they don't make as obvious a splash as Hades even if they are just as active. Heck for all we know they've infiltrated the CS.

Also... it mentions them going backward... why wouldn't they be at max-range from a rift anyway? Gives a smell of "I'm just going to stand 20 feet away from this doom-portal with my 5-mile-missile-launcher" that seems bad strategy. Getting ideal range should be preparatory, not reactive.

Page 15 (right column under Vampires of Mexico) mentions Nazca and "Blue Line Magic" in South America... isn't Blue Line magic actually from Chaos Earth? Could this be a typo and be intended to refer to the Blue Flame magic held by Larhold Shamans or something along those lines?

keir451 wrote:Reprinting the Anti-Monster O.C.C.: A couple of times during the Epilogue other books are given due reference as sections concernng them are mentioned. However we did NOT need the ENTIRE Anti-Monster O.C.C. reprinted when a simple reference to South America 1 with page number attached would have sufficed. This was not needed AT ALL! This was just a waste of paper and space. I do not blame Carl at all for this mistake as it clearly has the feel of Kevin's handiwork.


Based on the table of contents it also looks like they may have reprinted a bunch of the Demon Magic (now re-classed as 'Soulmancy', formerly presented as a sub-group of Demon Magic) originally from page 177 of Dimension Book 12 (Dimensional Outbreak) on page 91 of WB35: Megaverse in Flames. Is this the case? If so, shouldn't they only have printed the new magic and referred to DB12 for the ones already out? Reprinting spells in multiple Minion War would be pretty rotten. If I'm wrong, apologies.

kaid wrote:splynn is angry as hell with the minion war and once the direct attacks on atlantis start he is going to be unleashing tons of his minions to fight demons and devils all over

I could see this affecting some of Splynncryth's relations with the Egyptian Pantheon (particularly the Dark Gods) since some of them have particular dealings with Demon/Deevil Lords per Dragons and Gods.

For example Rifts Africa p. 40 says he has excellent relations with Splynncryth/Modeus/Mephisto. Already the Minion War could potentially strain his friendships with the latter 2 if they found out Set was double-dealing demons/devils (similar situation with Thoth) and if either or both invaded Atlantis and Splynncryth found out that Set was playing friendly with one or both, it could strain Atlantean/Egyptian relations, leading to some kind of Pyramid-War.

Although... I get the impression that Rifts Africa (via CB1 referencing) is referring to the alien intelligence imposters and not the actual Demon/Devil Lords. It's a bit hard to tell though, because D+G says Set is chummy (albeit false-chummy) with Modeus (but not Mephisto).

Is it possible that if Modeus had the demons invade Atlantis, this would be when Set would put his Andras-alliance into action and we could see the Baalrogs defend Atlantis against a swarm of Locusts?

Since Splynncryth hates Anubis, I could see Anubis not being enthusiastic about helping Set/Andras with this. In fact, he might advise Charun to "help" Modeus+Locusts overcome the Balrogs with his gargoyle/Alu shock-troops.

Although Anubis might be an asset in helping Charun recruit Jinn, the sway that Set holds over Jinn could interfere with this.
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Re: Megaverse In Flames review

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

Note: I don't have this book so am only speculating, but...
keir451 wrote:Coalition States, Heroes of Humanity: We already understand this so do we really need another Tolkeen War style book? Aslo the CS's equipment is BRAND NEW and has survived the ultimate test, an actual war, so there's no real reason to write new book featuring "new" CS equipment, IMO.

Re equipment (though I agree we really don't need a new CS book of toys). Likely we would be seeing a lessons learned type equipment based on the Tolkeen War, at least that is how I would do it if I was writing it. However, with NG and Triax both getting new material in recent WBs KS might feel the need to update the CS TO&E.

keir451 wrote:I also disagree with the representation of Free Quebec as having no experience fighting demons & monsters. World Book 22 does actually state that FQ has fought many times against demons and monsters over the years of the Dark Ages and it is due, literally, to the Glitter Force that they've survived as long as they have.
Triax, too, has been fighting against various types of demons and monsters for years and according to Triax 2, they recently fought a major battle againt the Gargoyles with the aid of the CS so the Gargoyles are in no position to be a threat to anyone right now.

Several thoughts here that apply to mostly Triax & the NGR, but may also apply to FQ:
1. Could this indicate an influx of "normal" Gargs (those not part of the Emperor's alliance, forget his name, and not native to the region).
2. Isn't Triax in a barely hanging on position though in terms of dealing with D&Ms? If the MiF causes the population to explode for D&Ms, Triax may not be in the position to handle the influx.
3. Do these D&Ms they have dealt with operate similar to the ones in MiF? If not, Triax/FQ may not have the experience to deal with this type of threat as effectively as those previous cases
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Re: Megaverse In Flames review

Unread post by keir451 »

@Tor: I haven't gone too far into the magic, but it doesn't seem to be a repeat of the Dimension Book 12 set of spells, they all look like new spells to me.. Also sorry I can't help you wiht the demon on the front cover, it could be a type of Gallu demon or something else. As for the winged creatures on the cover closser inspection reveals tha they have breasts which seems to fit them into the succubus category Gargoyles, oddly enough do NOT make up a large percentage of the armies' forces. Will you likely encounter them? Yes, but the numbers are, literally, random and the Epilogus description for the Gergoyles in Germany states that THOSE Gargoyles, at least, will probably fight agains tthe demons due the fact that they (the Gargoyles) have been free and living their own lives for so long.

@ShadowLogan: It could be that the new CS book is as you say, which might be interesting. As I stated above there are Gargoyles among the forces, and it is true they are not "native" to Rifts Earth and are not associated with the German Gargoyles. As for Triax, my impression was that, wiht the ehlp of the CS (and to a supposed extent the New Navy) the NGR dealt a crippling blow to the Gargoyles of Germany in Triax 2 so they're not a concern, though the next most likely threat would be the Brodkil and the Angel of Death. One of the problems the D&M's have is they're not presenting a unfifed force. Each Hell Lord has his/her own agenda regardless of what the actual orders may have been and this could make the inital armies easier to handle. However, each Hell Lord has been tasked wiht creating a Hell Pit which opens a portal directly to Hades and the various demon realms and can allow potentially MILLIONS of demons through in support of the current armies. Most of the "average" rank and files are just that, your average run of the mill D&M, but he HEll Lords themselves are each VERY unique and quite powerful in their own right and some of their troops are just like them, too. So I expect that there will be some intial difficulty in fighting some of these unique ones, how much dificulty is goin to be up to us in the end.
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Re: Megaverse In Flames review

Unread post by Alrik Vas »

Oh, each force dispatched from the pits has been charged with opening a large portal? Okay, now I'm seeing the point of this book. You're supposed to defeat the Generals to keep millions of demons and devils from flooding the Earth.
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Re: Megaverse In Flames review

Unread post by keir451 »

Alrik Vas wrote:Oh, each force dispatched from the pits has been charged with opening a large portal? Okay, now I'm seeing the point of this book. You're supposed to defeat the Generals to keep millions of demons and devils from flooding the Earth.

Actually it's more to the point of destroying the Hell Pits before they'e finished, of course to do that you've got to defeat the armies that're protecting them. I suggest tactical nuclear strikes from multiple sources. :lol:
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Re: Megaverse In Flames review

Unread post by Premier »

Alrik Vas wrote:Oh, each force dispatched from the pits has been charged with opening a large portal? Okay, now I'm seeing the point of this book. You're supposed to defeat the Generals to keep millions of demons and devils from flooding the Earth.


Yeah, that way your current world Campaign is not corrupted or forced into unmanageable warring that can lead to disastrous playability and demeaning the players purpose and efforts. However, the threat of a pit opening up and spewing forth millions could be conducted by GMs who are willing to risk such major alterations of Rifts Earth.
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Re: Megaverse In Flames review

Unread post by keir451 »

Premier wrote:
Alrik Vas wrote:Oh, each force dispatched from the pits has been charged with opening a large portal? Okay, now I'm seeing the point of this book. You're supposed to defeat the Generals to keep millions of demons and devils from flooding the Earth.


Yeah, that way your current world Campaign is not corrupted or forced into unmanageable warring that can lead to disastrous playability and demeaning the players purpose and efforts. However, the threat of a pit opening up and spewing forth millions could be conducted by GMs who are willing to risk such major alterations of Rifts Earth.

Exactly! :ok:
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Re: Megaverse In Flames review

Unread post by Tor »

keir451 wrote:haven't gone too far into the magic, but it doesn't seem to be a repeat of the Dimension Book 12 set of spells, they all look like new spells to me.

The titles of spells from DB12 are in WB35's ToC so if they weren't reprinted, they were still listed for some reason... odd.

keir451 wrote:could be a type of Gallu demon or something else.
Am just wondering if I overlooked something else with horns like that.

keir451 wrote:As for the winged creatures on the cover closser inspection reveals tha they have breasts which seems to fit them into the succubus category
Gargoyles gotta feed their young somehow. Anyone know if books say Gargoyles don't have *****? Maybe we just haven't seen one with some yet?

keir451 wrote:oddly enough do NOT make up a large percentage of the armies' forces.
I think DB10 mentioned that Charun is encouraging them to hold back (mostly those under his command) so that the war doesn't deplete his worshipers.
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Re: Megaverse In Flames review

Unread post by keir451 »

I usually don't pay too mucha ttention to the magic in the boojs as I'm typically a tech or psion vs mage class.But if they look reprinted to you the chances are that may be exactly what happened. I haven't had time, currently, to look up the spells but will try to do so.

We must also remember that the cover aetwork isn't always 1005 reflective of what's inside, take Madhaven for example: its cover had hover dump trucks onit but they were nowhere to be seen in the book itself.

I've seen no real artwork of female gargoyles so I'm not even sure they exist. I figured gargolye were hatched vs born live so the "mothers" raise clutches at a time and the hatchlings eat whatever the parent provides.

I think Charun does have his own plans, the number of gargoyles depends entirely upon the encounter dice and even the army in question, so there may be times of large Gargoyle encounters and then there may be times of none.
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Re: Megaverse In Flames review

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Demon Magic from Dimensional Outbreak has about 15-20% of its spells reprinted as Soulmancy in this book, but the majority are all new spells.
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Re: Megaverse In Flames review

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ShadowLogan wrote:Note: I don't have this book so am only speculating, but...
keir451 wrote:Coalition States, Heroes of Humanity: We already understand this so do we really need another Tolkeen War style book? Aslo the CS's equipment is BRAND NEW and has survived the ultimate test, an actual war, so there's no real reason to write new book featuring "new" CS equipment, IMO.

Re equipment (though I agree we really don't need a new CS book of toys). Likely we would be seeing a lessons learned type equipment based on the Tolkeen War, at least that is how I would do it if I was writing it. However, with NG and Triax both getting new material in recent WBs KS might feel the need to update the CS TO&E.

keir451 wrote:I also disagree with the representation of Free Quebec as having no experience fighting demons & monsters. World Book 22 does actually state that FQ has fought many times against demons and monsters over the years of the Dark Ages and it is due, literally, to the Glitter Force that they've survived as long as they have.
Triax, too, has been fighting against various types of demons and monsters for years and according to Triax 2, they recently fought a major battle againt the Gargoyles with the aid of the CS so the Gargoyles are in no position to be a threat to anyone right now.

Several thoughts here that apply to mostly Triax & the NGR, but may also apply to FQ:
1. Could this indicate an influx of "normal" Gargs (those not part of the Emperor's alliance, forget his name, and not native to the region).
2. Isn't Triax in a barely hanging on position though in terms of dealing with D&Ms? If the MiF causes the population to explode for D&Ms, Triax may not be in the position to handle the influx.
3. Do these D&Ms they have dealt with operate similar to the ones in MiF? If not, Triax/FQ may not have the experience to deal with this type of threat as effectively as those previous cases



As of triax 2 they actually had made significant advances and actually managed to sever the gargoyle forces into two major areas that had no direct contact with each other. The northern half is splintering from under the gargoyle emprorers control and many are giving up some of the tech toys he was forcing them to use. Also at around this point the gargoyles found out that being teamed up with two ladies who are crazy as a bag of cats and ferrets was bad when the angel of death turned the brodkil forces against the gargoyle forces.

So even before the demons and devils you had two separate gargoyle factions with the brodkil demon armies at war with each other and triax at war with both of them. Now you are adding devils and demons to the mix the pot is being stirred to crazy levels. If the demon faction was actually capable of unifying all the gargoyles under their banner and if the angel of death was not a few french fries short of a happy mean triax would be in great peril. As it stands europe is going to turn into a 5 or 6 way free for all of everybody on everybody. There is even a chance the gargoyle emporer and triax may wind up fighting on the same side for a while we are talking cats and dogs mass hysteria type levels of crazy.

Triax has some of the same issues FQ does. Most of their "demons" they have to deal with use very little magic and are mostly just really big super strong brutes. It is one reason they don't really feel one way or another about magic as it has not really been used against them to any major effect and nobody in the NGR has much desire to learn magic because their tech is so good and so plentiful those who have the innate gift don't bother to develop it.

Unlike FQ triax does utilize psychics more heavily in their military forces so while not as good as the CS for anti demonic infiltration detection they are a bit better off than FQ who uses even less pyshics than either of the other two major human supremacist powers.
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Re: Megaverse In Flames review

Unread post by kaid »

One interesting kink I noticed with the hell pits is these are both keys to demonic/devil victory with being able to flood the battle fields with their forces they also are a pretty interesting strategic weakness.

While the pylons controlling hell pits are very tough they are something large scale conventional attacks/bombardments can destroy. Also any demon/devil killed in the area of influence of the hell pit of their faction they are dead dead. Not just sent home to pout for a few millenium dead but it considers them being on their home plane and they meet the true death.

It will be interesting if the forces of the demons/devils realize this right away or not. If they don't as soon as they realize if they die in the defense of one of these beach heads they meet the true death once and for all how strongly the bulk of the forces would be willing to defend them. Given they otherwise are effectively immortal I would see a lot of the various fractious demons/devils being unwilling to make any kind of stand defending their beach heads in favor of living to fight another day.

If they wind up being willing to make stands guarding the pits this fight of the minion war could wind up being a fight that kills more demons/devils for good than has ever happened before. Killing 10s 100s of thousands of minions with a true death could be enough to get both the demons/devils to think very carefully how bad they actually want the planet and may wind up what actually ends the minion wars on rifts earth.
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Re: Megaverse In Flames review

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Also baring demons implementing something like what tolkeen had for defenses and that is not something that is very likely unless the hell pits are let unmolested for years/decades the city buster nukes the CS had would be terribly effective against them. They are large open air targets the size of a football field or bigger. The damage from one of these city busters would likely destroy one or all of the pylons taking the hell pit off line until basically the next equinox and sending everything in the blast radius that is not super super strong to their true death.

So if the CS or triax was ever in jeopardy of falling their final retributive strike could potentially kill millions of minions for good which would put a serious crimp in the winning factions ability to actually use earth for what they intended.
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Re: Megaverse In Flames review

Unread post by keir451 »

I've had much the same thought concerning the vulnerability of the Hell Pits to nuclear or traditional bombardment I see it as a viable tactic, IF whatever forces guarding them are able to be caught unawares long enough. I alos wonder at the effcet the death of that many deomns, etc., all at once would have on the magice levels of Rifts Earth. Would we see anohter surge in magic similar to the ones that happened during the Chaos years or would it just be a slight ripple in a very large pond?
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Re: Megaverse In Flames review

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keir451 wrote:I've had much the same thought concerning the vulnerability of the Hell Pits to nuclear or traditional bombardment I see it as a viable tactic, IF whatever forces guarding them are able to be caught unawares long enough. I alos wonder at the effcet the death of that many deomns, etc., all at once would have on the magice levels of Rifts Earth. Would we see anohter surge in magic similar to the ones that happened during the Chaos years or would it just be a slight ripple in a very large pond?



That would likely be one reason to hold the tactical nuke bombardment as a last ditch option but given the size and openness of hell pits if you were pressed that bad you were willing to start flinging city busters around you could show an awful lot demons and devils a very pointed lesson on why you should not mess with humans. If it got to that stage even if demons or devils won it would likely wind up being a phyrric victory at best.
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Re: Megaverse In Flames review

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keir451 wrote:cover aetwork isn't always 1005 reflective of what's inside, take Madhaven for example: its cover had hover dump trucks onit but they were nowhere to be seen in the book itself.
Text doesn't represent 100% of what exists in a setting, I consider cover and internal art to be supplemental material that also adds to the setting. Like how Lone Star had that cool spider-mutant guy who got a Rifter fanfic about him.

keir451 wrote:I've seen no real artwork of female gargoyles so I'm not even sure they exist.
There is a Queen and her mother in Dragons + Gods, so that's at least two.
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Re: Megaverse In Flames review

Unread post by kaid »

Also have to consider for the lady gargoyle question is that quit a few demons who get elevated to high rank also get changed in appearance sometimes radically so. So it very well could be a higher ranking succubus that got a power upgrade/transformation.
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Re: Megaverse In Flames review

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Finally got a chance to leaf through 'M.i.F.'... hmmm :-?
The Coalition saviours of Earth / humanity?!
With their current anti-human anti-magic anti-anything-not-'murrican-human stance still fully in effect?
Not [censored] likely. I don't care how many meat-sheilds (and after the Siege of Tolkeen, they can't have many of elligible age unless they want to go "child soldier" route) they equip with surplus and/or outmoded gear.
Oh wait...I forgot; Siembiada "plotz sheeuldz" :roll: :frust: :nh:

Regardless though, the book its self is well-done, and though I am not a fan of Bradshaw, his art-work DOES lend itself to the subject matter. Well thought out, nicely detailed and definately a treasure trove of ideas for sadistic GM's of all stripe. :demon: :ok:
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Re: Megaverse In Flames review

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Tor wrote:
keir451 wrote:cover aetwork isn't always 1005 reflective of what's inside, take Madhaven for example: its cover had hover dump trucks onit but they were nowhere to be seen in the book itself.
Text doesn't represent 100% of what exists in a setting, I consider cover and internal art to be supplemental material that also adds to the setting. Like how Lone Star had that cool spider-mutant guy who got a Rifter fanfic about him.

keir451 wrote:I've seen no real artwork of female gargoyles so I'm not even sure they exist.
There is a Queen and her mother in Dragons + Gods, so that's at least two.



Female Gargoyles do exist, and they are identical to the males, with the exception of their....lower lady bits. Gargoyle females do not have breasts, nor do Gargoyles of either gender belly buttons as they are hatched from eggs. Fully explained in Conversion Book 1, Triax and the NGR, and Dimension book Hades. For those who want to go over and read the material themselves, all three books have the same info and text, which I think is just copy and pasted in most cases.
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Re: Megaverse In Flames review

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I strongly expect that female Gargoyle Mages living in Atlantis get Bio-Wizardry chest implants and wigs. Pull off that Demona look. Perhaps Eyelors.

Too bad Palladium is not a bad enough dude to come out with a special book illustrating which demon and devil species are capable of mating and showing us how the more oddly shaped ones do so.
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Re: Megaverse In Flames review

Unread post by Athos »

I just got the book, and I really like it.

I can see where people that don't like the supernatural side of Rifts and prefer tech would not be happy with a plot twist that takes the whole world and puts it up for grabs between Deevils and Demons, but I LOVED it. Two massive armies that must be defeated to save rifts earth, count me in.

I believe I might have to use this as the backdrop for a game.
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Re: Megaverse In Flames review

Unread post by SolCannibal »

DhAkael wrote:Finally got a chance to leaf through 'M.i.F.'... hmmm :-?
The Coalition saviours of Earth / humanity?!
With their current anti-human anti-magic anti-anything-not-'murrican-human stance still fully in effect?
Not [censored] likely. I don't care how many meat-sheilds (and after the Siege of Tolkeen, they can't have many of elligible age unless they want to go "child soldier" route) they equip with surplus and/or outmoded gear.
Oh wait...I forgot; Siembiada "plotz sheeuldz" :roll: :frust: :nh:


Not to mention containing any trouble coming from occupied Minnesota, New Kenora, the resources spent in the are of the Juicer Uprising and so on... take out convenient plot immunity and the CS might be terribly short-strapped when it comes to troops (specially experienced troops and officers) and certain resources - making the matter of who else will actually confront the invaders from Hades & Dyval (PCs obviously included) even more of a big deal.
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