New Dragon-God

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:44 pm

I think the Chiang-Ku need representation in Dragonwright.
Of course he would have all known tattoos (and maybe a few of his own devising).
Plus
25th level Wizard (knows all invocations and temporal magic)
15th level Techno-Wizard
8th level Diabolist

Stats and size comparable yet a bit lower/smaller than the other Dragon-Gods'.

Don't have any ideas about blood power. Suggestions would be appreciated.

drewkitty ~..~ · Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:06 pm

Leave out the techno wizard part (this is PFRPG) & replace it with 15th level tattoo master.

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:35 pm

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Leave out the techno wizard part (this is PFRPG) & replace it with 15th level tattoo master.

Noted but I think it fits.

He's a dragon-god and as such would likely far surpass 15th level as a tattoo master. I indicated that he would have all known tattoos and maybe a few of his own devising.

Also Palladium god-dragons are not specifically averse to technology (Kymnarkmar doesn't care about it one way or the other but the other's seem to have some interest in it) and since they can dimension hop (which even the Chiang-Ku can do) and in fact the Chiang-Ku seem to be more widely traveled and worldly when it comes to interaction with the lesser races, I think they would embrace tech even more than their kin. Therefore, I think that they would be interested in techno-wizardry.

Now what about blood powers?

kiralon · Unread post by **kiralon** » Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:26 pm

I agree with DK, In thoths description it actually says that he is a technowizard, if unconventional, but doesn't give his level for it, id do the samething because TW don't really exist in palladium, also Kym Nark Mar, the dragon god of magic is only level 22 wizard, so id probably drop his wizard level to 20 and up his diabolism to 12.

drewkitty ~..~ · Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:30 pm

If this was posted in the rifts forum (for rifts) the TW class could fit. But here...and for PFRPG...it does not fit the setting.

Yep, but you didn't state the dragon was a tattoo master.
Nope, not all Chiang-Ku are tattoo masters. Reread the text for them in the England book page 49 where the Chiang-Ku dragons are fully detailed. You will see that the 'tattoo master' is separate from the 'typical' Chiang-Ku and have their own set of bonuses. (This does mean that not all Chiang-Ku can make magic tattoos, even though they know about them.)

Both of which are the 'Whys' I said it should be a Tattoo Master specifically stated, to be more acceptable to the PFRPG setting. Even though Chiang-Ku do not use magic tattoos on the PF world.

Blood Metal......maybe a psion is able to reform it with just their thoughts. Thus it does not have a static shape.

Glistam · Unread post by **Glistam** » Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:00 pm

His blood makes an ink that, if used in Tattoos, increases their magic powers. Actually, it increases the magical power of anything written with it. It can also be used to make metamorphosis potions.

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:02 pm

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:If this was posted in the rifts forum (for rifts) the TW class could fit. But here...and for PFRPG...it does not fit the setting.

The PF book Dragons and Gods covers tech use of the God-Dragons so Its applicable to write them up this way regardless of the setting they will actually be played in.

Yep, but you didn't state the dragon was a tattoo master.

Nope but all Chiang-Ku can create magic tattoos so in theory they can give themselves as many as they want. The Tattoo master has added bonuses that other Chiang-Ku do not and are detailed to give themselves tattoos at every level.

Nope, not all Chiang-Ku are tattoo masters. Reread the text for them in the England book page 49 where the Chiang-Ku dragons are fully detailed. You will see that the 'tattoo master' is separate from the 'typical' Chiang-Ku and have their own set of bonuses. (This does mean that not all Chiang-Ku can make magic tattoos, even though they know about them.)

Incorrect, you reread the text in the England book. Direct quote from the England p.49 paragraph titled Tattoo Magic: "All Chiang-ku can create magic tattoos on humans, elves, ogres, themselves and other Chiang-Ku." All Chiang-Ku can create magic tattoos on... themselves. Very clearly stated. They have no limits other than healing time between.

Both of which are the 'Whys' I said it should be a Tattoo Master specifically stated, to be more acceptable to the PFRPG setting. Even though Chiang-Ku do not use magic tattoos on the PF world.

Actually they still have the tattoos, they just won't ever share them with others (no giving others tatts or teaching anybody how they are made) in the setting and will rarely use them themselves while there. However we are talking about a dimension hopping God-Dragon who would no doubt not need his tattoos in any but the most dire of circumstances while in the PF dimension, he would nonetheless still have them.

Blood Metal......maybe a psion is able to reform it with just their thoughts. Thus it does not have a static shape.

Interesting so they can spend some ISP and make a buckler into a sword or a chain.

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:20 pm

kiralon wrote:I agree with DK, In thoths description it actually says that he is a technowizard, if unconventional, but doesn't give his level for it, id do the samething because TW don't really exist in palladium, also Kym Nark Mar, the dragon god of magic is only level 22 wizard, so id probably drop his wizard level to 20 and up his diabolism to 12.

If you read the write up on Chiang-ku it says they are wisest of all dragons and masters of magic and are born with a full understanding of magic, and a typical Chiang-Ku will dedicate himself to the study of his chosen mystic art and try to learn everything about it. Take this up a notch to the level of a God-Dragon Chiang-Ku and I believe that they would outmatch all other dragon types in magic knowledge (though I grant that KNM will have a higher PPE base and possibly a higher casting strength due to his raw magic power). However KNM is an ice dragon which while magically talented, are not noted as masters of magic, nor noted to be dedicated to mastering their chosen area of mystic study. I took this into consideration when proposing my Chiang-Ku God-Dragon :wink:

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:33 pm

Glistam wrote:His blood makes an ink that, if used in Tattoos, increases their magic powers. Actually, it increases the magical power of anything written with it. It can also be used to make metamorphosis potions.

I like it! Here is what I'm going to say then.

For tattoos made with his blood in the ink they require half PPE for each use and have double their normal effects and duration as well as endowing double the normal PPE to the bearer.

It can be used as a component to write any ward, and wards written in it are double strength in all regards. Permanency wards can also be created by drawing the ward in his blood whereupon the final stroke makes it etch itself into the warded item (doing 1d4x10 damage direct to HP if its done on a living being).

Metamorphosis potions made with his blood last until the drinker cancels it or enters a coma/dies, even sleep/unconsciousness will not end the transformation.

kiralon · Unread post by **kiralon** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:32 am

Thinyser wrote:If you read the write up on Chiang-ku it says they are wisest of all dragons and masters of magic and are born with a full understanding of magic, and a typical Chiang-Ku will dedicate himself to the study of his chosen mystic art and try to learn everything about it. Take this up a notch to the level of a God-Dragon Chiang-Ku and I believe that they would outmatch all other dragon types in magic knowledge (though I grant that KNM will have a higher PPE base and possibly a higher casting strength due to his raw magic power). However KNM is an ice dragon which while magically talented, are not noted as masters of magic, nor noted to be dedicated to mastering their chosen area of mystic study. I took this into consideration when proposing my Chiang-Ku God-Dragon

KNM is the symbol of wisdom, power and magic and is the power word for the same, I agree with you in general but I think KNM is a very special figure, the great horned dragon of the pantheon for example, has no wizard casting ability so the abilities of the type of dragon they are seem not to matter. In saying that there are 2 other gods with higher level spell casting, Od and Set, go figure. Id just have KNM as the highest of the Dragon gods (well actually id kick KNM up to 30 but that's just me).

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:08 am

kiralon wrote:
Thinyser wrote:If you read the write up on Chiang-ku it says they are wisest of all dragons and masters of magic and are born with a full understanding of magic, and a typical Chiang-Ku will dedicate himself to the study of his chosen mystic art and try to learn everything about it. Take this up a notch to the level of a God-Dragon Chiang-Ku and I believe that they would outmatch all other dragon types in magic knowledge (though I grant that KNM will have a higher PPE base and possibly a higher casting strength due to his raw magic power). However KNM is an ice dragon which while magically talented, are not noted as masters of magic, nor noted to be dedicated to mastering their chosen area of mystic study. I took this into consideration when proposing my Chiang-Ku God-Dragon

KNM is the symbol of wisdom, power and magic and is the power word for the same, I agree with you in general but I think KNM is a very special figure, the great horned dragon of the pantheon for example, has no wizard casting ability so the abilities of the type of dragon they are seem not to matter. In saying that there are 2 other gods with higher level spell casting, Od and Set, go figure. Id just have KNM as the highest of the Dragon gods (well actually id kick KNM up to 30 but that's just me).

I think KNM is power incarnate when it comes to magic... but not necessarily the most knowledgeable on the subject. I don't see an issue really, KNM is stronger but not as high of level.

Its like if you had Brock Lesnar and Bruce Lee, Lesnar would be KNM, insanely powerful and very skilled, while Lee, AKA the Chiang-Ku, is a more learned master that relies more on finesse and knowledge than his raw power.

Yes KNM literally emanates magic and as such is (and should be) Dragonwrite's symbol of magic but that does not mean he has mastered it as well as a dedicated Chiang-Ku could/would. Ice dragons are kinda lazy or at least more blase about things, and once he got to 22nd level he was probably like "Pffft that's more than I ever need to know" and just quit looking for more knowledge whereas a Chiang-Ku is tenacious and won't stop learning until he can't learn any more.

Just my opinion, feel free to continue to disagree

and thanks for the input.

kiralon · Unread post by **kiralon** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:05 am

hes not just the symbol of power, hes a power word of wisdom too, I thought you might be focusing on his incredible cosmic power, He is the smartest god there is, being smarter than thoth even, hes the only god in the 40's for IQ

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:16 am

kiralon wrote:hes not just the symbol of power, hes a power word of wisdom too, I thought you might be focusing on his incredible cosmic power, He is the smartest god there is, being smarter than thoth even, hes the only god in the 40's for IQ

Well I never compared actual stats so you got me there. However intelligence does not equal knowledge or even mastery of a certain subject. Somebody who is devoted to mastering a task and learning everything about it could still have more knowledge and mastery of that subject than someone that is smarter than them. The smart person would grasp complex concepts faster and easier than the less smart person but that does not mean that they will have greater knowledge and understanding in the end, if they don't choose to divote their time and intellect to learn everything there is to know about the subject.

I'm sure somewhere in your life you have met somebody that is very smart but that has no ability to say cook a decent meal or could never survive in the woods for more than a day. Though insanely smart they have less knowledge on these subjects and people that are probably way less smart but have taken time to study and in some cases master the arts of cooking and bushcraft/survival. Now I know this isn't a great analogy for this specific circumstance because both KNM and my yet unnamed Chiang-Ku are wizards so have both studied magic but raw intelligence is no indicator of knowledge. The Chiang-Ku deal with mortals all the time whereas icedragons and in particular KNM are pretty aloof this means the C-Ku would have an advantage to ferret out details of magic from the lesser beings he interacts with while KNM would have to probably experiment and learn them on his own... which he could, but is probably too lazy or blase to do so.

Though, as you said yourself, there are gods with greater knowledge of magic than he, KNM remains the embodiment of magical power.

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:14 am

Looking at existing dragon-gods, considering how Quetzalcoatl has been pushed out of his own pantheon, I think he ought to join Dragonwright as the resident Kukulcan.

Any other candidates out there? I know there's a demon-lord-dragon-god in the Indian pantheon, and Apepi in the Egyptian, Styphathal might like them.

Glistam · Unread post by **Glistam** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 12:29 pm

Would the Pantheon of Dragonwright even accept another Dragon-God? Doesn't that just mean less worshipers for the others? I can't imagine any of the Dragon-Gods being okay with that.

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:52 pm

Glistam wrote:Would the Pantheon of Dragonwright even accept another Dragon-God? Doesn't that just mean less worshipers for the others? I can't imagine any of the Dragon-Gods being okay with that.

Very good point. I had thought of him more or less just being there already but not written up yet. It kinda solves all the worshiper issues and stuff like that. He's always been there but the books just never covered him is how I would explain it to players, IF they asked.

arouetta · Unread post by **arouetta** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:03 pm

Thinyser wrote:
Glistam wrote:Would the Pantheon of Dragonwright even accept another Dragon-God? Doesn't that just mean less worshipers for the others? I can't imagine any of the Dragon-Gods being okay with that.

Very good point. I had thought of him more or less just being there already but not written up yet. It kinda solves all the worshiper issues and stuff like that. He's always been there but the books just never covered him is how I would explain it to players, IF they asked.

Check out D&G pg 85 on forgotten gods. That could give you a solid plot on the PCs "saving" this unknown dragon god.

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:10 pm

Tor wrote:Looking at existing dragon-gods, considering how Quetzalcoatl has been pushed out of his own pantheon, I think he ought to join Dragonwright as the resident Kukulcan.

Any other candidates out there? I know there's a demon-lord-dragon-god in the Indian pantheon, and Apepi in the Egyptian, Styphathal might like them.

Oooo this gives me an idea for another dragon-god pantheon, separate yet not necessarily opposed to Dragonwright. My unnamed Chiang-Ku, Quetzalcoatl the Kukulcan, Vritra the Obstructor (Technically a Demon lord but listed as a dragon-god), Apepi (a previously unknown species of dragon, which has its own interesting possibilities). Of course these others would have to agree to leave their current pantheon, and their pantheon allow them to go, before this could happen.

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:10 pm

arouetta wrote:
Thinyser wrote:
Glistam wrote:Would the Pantheon of Dragonwright even accept another Dragon-God? Doesn't that just mean less worshipers for the others? I can't imagine any of the Dragon-Gods being okay with that.

Very good point. I had thought of him more or less just being there already but not written up yet. It kinda solves all the worshiper issues and stuff like that. He's always been there but the books just never covered him is how I would explain it to players, IF they asked.

Check out D&G pg 85 on forgotten gods. That could give you a solid plot on the PCs "saving" this unknown dragon god.

Good idea thanks!

The Ruiner · Unread post by **The Ruiner** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:38 pm

Thinyser wrote:Any other candidates out there? I know there's a demon-lord-dragon-god in the Indian pantheon, and Apepi in the Egyptian, Styphathal might like them.
Oooo this gives me an idea for another dragon-god pantheon, separate yet not necessarily opposed to Dragonwright. My unnamed Chiang-Ku, Quetzalcoatl the Kukulcan, Vritra the Obstructor (Technically a Demon lord but listed as a dragon-god), Apepi (a previously unknown species of dragon, which has its own interesting possibilities). Of course these others would have to agree to leave their current pantheon, and their pantheon allow them to go, before this could happen.

I don't believe Set would ever let Apepi defect like that. If he did, it would probably be on a "keep tabs on this upstart group for me" type of spy game. Furthermore, unless I'm remembering incorrectly, is't Apepi feircly loyal to Set. He prolly wouldn't want to leave in the first place.

The Ruiner · Unread post by **The Ruiner** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 6:43 pm

As far as blood powers perhaps in addition to what you and Glistam have worked out, his blood can be used to give tatoo powers to supernatural beings, not that he ever would do that on the palladium world.

kiralon · Unread post by **kiralon** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:28 pm

http://www.firstage.net/articles/famous ... names.html

other possible candidates

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:30 pm

The Ruiner wrote:
Thinyser wrote:
Tor wrote:Any other candidates out there? I know there's a demon-lord-dragon-god in the Indian pantheon, and Apepi in the Egyptian, Styphathal might like them.

Oooo this gives me an idea for another dragon-god pantheon, separate yet not necessarily opposed to Dragonwright. My unnamed Chiang-Ku, Quetzalcoatl the Kukulcan, Vritra the Obstructor (Technically a Demon lord but listed as a dragon-god), Apepi (a previously unknown species of dragon, which has its own interesting possibilities). Of course these others would have to agree to leave their current pantheon, and their pantheon allow them to go, before this could happen.

I don't believe Set would ever let Apepi defect like that. If he did, it would probably be on a "keep tabs on this upstart group for me" type of spy game. Furthermore, unless I'm remembering incorrectly, is't Apepi feircly loyal to Set. He prolly wouldn't want to leave in the first place.

True. And watch the quotes the part in red was Tor's not mine. I fixed it in this post.

The Ruiner · Unread post by **The Ruiner** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:36 pm

Oops, my bad. I am still getting the hang of the post editing feature, also....I'm kinda dumb.

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:20 pm

The Ruiner wrote:Oops, my bad. I am still getting the hang of the post editing feature, also....I'm kinda dumb.

Well you're from (or live in) Iowa so that automatically drops your IQ like 15 points.

I KEEEED! I KEEEED!

I'm from SD so I get to hate on Iowa, its a form of midwestern bonding, and all taken in fun.

The Ruiner · Unread post by **The Ruiner** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:31 pm

Well I'm not an Iowa native, so no offence taken. I'm willing to bet that I hate on Iowa more than you anyway.

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:47 pm

The Ruiner wrote:Well I'm not an Iowa native, so no offence taken. I'm willing to bet that I hate on Iowa more than you anyway.

Hotrod · Unread post by **Hotrod** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:24 pm

Thinyser wrote:I think the Chiang-Ku need representation in Dragonwright.
Of course he would have all known tattoos (and maybe a few of his own devising).
Plus
25th level Wizard (knows all invocations and temporal magic)
15th level Techno-Wizard
8th level Diabolist

Stats and size comparable yet a bit lower/smaller than the other Dragon-Gods'.

Don't have any ideas about blood power. Suggestions would be appreciated.

Are the gods of Dragonwright meant to represent specific varieties of dragons?

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:04 pm

Hotrod wrote:
Thinyser wrote:I think the Chiang-Ku need representation in Dragonwright.
Of course he would have all known tattoos (and maybe a few of his own devising).
Plus
25th level Wizard (knows all invocations and temporal magic)
15th level Techno-Wizard
8th level Diabolist

Stats and size comparable yet a bit lower/smaller than the other Dragon-Gods'.

Don't have any ideas about blood power. Suggestions would be appreciated.

Are the gods of Dragonwright meant to represent specific varieties of dragons?

Well KNM is an ice dragon (or at least his blue color and habitation of an icy realm indicate such), Zandragal is a fire dragon (indicated by her color and fiery breath weapon), Kormath is also an ice dragon (frost breath and white in color), Styphon the black is a probably a thunder lizard (he has poison breath). So yeah kind of a representation.

kiralon · Unread post by **kiralon** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:21 pm

the description of kormath says hes a horned dragon, styphon has wings and is black and bronze (thunder lizards are wingless, green and gold and tend to be good), and probably more likely to be a nightstalker (but seems to be more like a black dragon from another game).

maybe a dragon-god lo-dox, who is the dragon god of humour

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:59 pm

kiralon wrote:the description of kormath says hes a horned dragon, styphon has wings and is black and bronze (thunder lizards are wingless, green and gold and tend to be good), and probably more likely to be a nightstalker (but seems to be more like a black dragon from another game).

maybe a dragon-god lo-dox, who is the dragon god of humour

It says he is a horned dragon not a Great Horned dragon. Great Horned dragons breath fire not frost, and while their skin color varies widely, white is not mentioned. I think it more probable Kormath is an ice dragon (which can likely have horns even if not depicted by the artist drawing them). Or he could be some sort of mystery dragon, maybe an inverted night stalker (pure black to pure white, black fire to frost). Could be wrong he could be a albino Great Horned dragon who somehow changed his breath weapon to frost instead of fire, who knows?

Styphon is probably a mystery dragon, possibly the last of his kind (I agree he most resembles a black from that other game). Color wise he could be thunder lizard green and gold that have darkened with age and become black and bronze, however the wings are then a conundrum. Maybe a mating between a thunder lizard and a nightstalker? Gets the evil nature and wings and some coloration from the nightstalker and the breath weapon and bigger size from the thunder lizard?

Apsis is also a mystery dragon, it says so right in his description so there is precedent for undocumented species of dragons existing.

Its all conjecture. None of them are named as a specific type so we are left to guess based on their color, breath weapon, body features (wings/horns), and for KNM the type of realm they have created for himself.

Goliath Strongarm · Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:10 am

Remember, when the Dragon Gods were created by Kevin, it was for a home brew of that "Other" game.. so them resembling those makes a LOT of sense...

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:45 am

Goliath Strongarm wrote:Remember, when the Dragon Gods were created by Kevin, it was for a home brew of that "Other" game.. so them resembling those makes a LOT of sense...

Really? Where is this stated?

asbjorn · Unread post by **asbjorn** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:01 am

Are you going to design Tattoos of Legend?

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:21 am

asbjorn wrote:Are you going to design Tattoos of Legend?

I had one or two ideas for a few unique tattoos. Whether they are powerful enough to be "Lengendary" will be up to individual GM's.

Also I think that I might add that tattoos that incorporate his blood can be applied to any race supernatural or not. So other Gods and dragon types besides Chiang-Ku, as well as any lesser supernatural creature and mortals not on the normal approved could have tattoos if the ink was made with his blood. Or maybe its not the ink but the needle since traditionally the god-dragon blood can be worked like metal once it hardens so it seems appropriate that I keep with that tradition. Or perhaps both a Chiang-Ku-God-Dragon blood needle AND his liquid blood incorporated into the ink are needed to have these special effects on tattoo magic. So even if you have the special needle you can't just give every SN critter magic tattoos.

I plan on doing the whole write up this weekend and will post it for all to enjoy (or to enjoy picking apart, as seems the case with many ideas! :lol:

)

pblackcrow · Unread post by **pblackcrow** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:39 pm

Glistam wrote:His blood makes an ink that, if used in Tattoos, increases their magic powers. Actually, it increases the magical power of anything written with it. It can also be used to make metamorphosis potions.

I like it! Scrolls, books of magics, wards, circles, sigils, etc. Cool idea!!!

drewkitty ~..~ · Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:10 pm

Some thoughts.

That the CK dragons use their own blood in the magic tattoos of their making. Giving them an edge in making the tattoos in the 1st place.

The blood metal of a CK DG....the blood has to rest in place for a decade for it to transform from a liquid into a solid metal form.
Decade....picked a Long Time amount of time, and the year of cooling was already taken.

(The only part I opposed to is the TW stuff)

pblackcrow · Unread post by **pblackcrow** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:26 pm

Drewkitty: Look, I don't care. I like Glistam's suggestion better. And that is exactly why it is the more fitting idea.

Thinyser: When you have him or her written up, please send me the details.

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:38 pm

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Some thoughts.

That the CK dragons use their own blood in the magic tattoos of their making. Giving them an edge in making the tattoos in the 1st place.

The blood metal of a CK DG....the blood has to rest in place for a decade for it to transform from a liquid into a solid metal form.
Decade....picked a Long Time amount of time, and the year of cooling was already taken.

(The only part I opposed to is the TW stuff)

I didn't want to do diabolism or summoning as they are already covered by the other DG's. Also I really think that they would have an aptitude for, and a predilection to, TW stuff. They spend more time in human form than any other type of dragon and would have more exposure to tech and TW than any other type of dragon.

I'm not sure why you are opposed to him having Techno Wizardry as OCC since its not like they spend all of their time solely on Palladium, in fact they probably visit places like Rifts and PW as often as they visit PF. Could you explain why you are so against it in more detail than simply stating they are PFRPG and it doesn't fit the setting. They are not exclusive to this setting so that argument holds no weight for me at all.

asbjorn · Unread post by **asbjorn** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:55 pm

Thinyser, write what feels right to you. If you like techno-wizardry give him the biggest baddest and coolest techno-wizard devices in all the Megaverse, thats why it is a mult-dimensional game. There are purests who will give you greef, dont worry about them. Have fun, its what the game is about.

If you really like it others will also, submit it to the Rifter and see if it can be published.

Questions I have, How will the new dragon god feel about the Sea Giants, what was his roll in the Battle of the Gods?

kiralon · Unread post by **kiralon** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:46 pm

asbjorn wrote:Thinyser, write what feels right to you. If you like techno-wizardry give him the biggest baddest and coolest techno-wizard devices in all the Megaverse, thats why it is a mult-dimensional game. There are purests who will give you greef, dont worry about them. Have fun, its what the game is about.

If you really like it others will also, submit it to the Rifter and see if it can be published.

Questions I have, How will the new dragon god feel about the Sea Giants, what was his roll in the Battle of the Gods?

This is technically the PFRPG forums, not the multiverse forums, technowizardry tends to belong in the rifts forum, even in D&G they only say that the have TW or not, not give levels or anything more because D&G is PFRPG but megaversally compatible, and generally anything imported from rifts is done so to up the power level of whatever it was.

and his roll had to have been a natural 20 of course

The other bloods of the dragons do turn into something metallic, so maybe it turns into a transparent metal that can natively hold spell/s, or when looked through be the equivalent of read magic (made into glasses), or if made into a circlet increase your IQ, or maybe can even be made into an indestructible spell book with metal pages that increases your caster level, or lets you cast all spells from level 1-5.

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:23 pm

Is there a mod that can please move this to the RIFTS forum so that people will quit saying that the idea is not compatible with the forum.

pblackcrow · Unread post by **pblackcrow** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:14 am

Please don't.

Hotrod · Unread post by **Hotrod** » Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:05 pm

In creating new material to supplement the existing, I like to take a "Don't rock the boat" approach. If I were to add a new dragon-god to the pantheon of Dragonwright, I'd make it a minor god, not one on par with the big four. I'd also try for some thematic consistency. The blood and scales of the Dragonwright gods have some very special properties, but those properties are manifested as workable metals or crystal with special physical properties, like a sharp edge that cleaves right through armor, does some extra damage, makes a tougher armor, that kind of thing.

Chiang-Ku are quite different from most dragons. They are far more communal and cooperative with each other than most. They often see human beings as partners rather than as inferior pawns (Even though they can easily make them into pawns with the Elixer of Power and Deceit). Of course, they also have their own special brand of tattoo magic.

To be honest, I probably wouldn't jump at making a Chiang-Ku dragon-god. If I did, though, I'd make him/her more of a godling than a full up god (or something in-between). I'd try to have the dragon-god's blood reflect something in the nature of the Chiang-ku themselves as a physical property rather than as a magic one. Perhaps I'd allow the blood-metal to change shape, making it a transformable weapon, since they are master shapeshifters. Alternately, it could change its color and reflectivity, allowing an armor made from it to have a chameleon-style stealth ability.

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:28 am

I have come to know a man, nay not a man, a God, but not just a God, rather he is a Chiang-Ku God-Dragon named Feilong who was once, and is now again, a powerful member of Dragonwright. Long ago he lost his followers, and his godhood, as a consequence of an absence imposed by a side-effect of his helping defeat the Old Ones. For thousands of years he has slept, in hopes that one day worshipers could bring him back from his slumber and into the world of men, and Gods, once again. Not long ago his hope was fulfilled and I was witness to the rising of a God-Dragon. It occurred on the eve of the vernal equinox when the days begin to lengthen once more, an auspicious omen I think. It was on that day that the many monks and followers, that I had endeavored to secretly recruit over the last decade, reached sufficient numbers to awaken our sleeping deity. I care not that it was I who helped resurrect this divine being, however Feilong is a generous and just God and has rewarded me with the position of Arch-Priest of his church. While it gives me great power and is the greatest honor he could bestow upon a mortal such as I, it is also a wearying task and one to which I find myself Ill-suited, for I love to travel, and my duties to his church demand that I be bound to my office and available to govern the church.
Together, Feilong and I, are beginning a new chapter in the Book of Dragonwright that sets the record straight about who he is and that it was really he who sacrificed himself (and I suspect all of his worshipers) to save the world from the domination of the Old Ones. We speak daily, he tells me tales of his life up to the point where he and his God-Dragon brethren fought the final battle against the Old Ones. I suspect that he lost his followers because he himself tapped them for their life energy to fuel a terrible and powerful spell, killing them and ending, or at least suspending, his godhood, in the process. I do not fear him because of this, in fact I admire him even more because it took great courage to sacrifice that many mortal souls, and potentially his godhood as well, in a bid to rid the world of an Evil that would have killed orders of magnitude more. I also do not fear him because I can see the truth in his eyes as we speak, he is haunted and remorseful about what he did, but knows he would do it again if the need to vanquish such Evil ever arose again. For that, and that alone, I trust him to lead me and the rest of his followers, for I know that his heart is pure, and that we are all safe in his hands until the very world is threatened and becomes more important than his personal flock of sheep, and again he must needs make hard choices, whereupon he will make the right choice even if it means death to he and all his followers.

Diary of Shen-Li De-Feilong,
Arch-Priest to Feilong of Dragonwright

Feilong is the symbol for all Love. Romantic love, love for family and friends, and pure (unconditional/selfless) love all fall under his domain. He is also the prankster of Dragonwright being known to have a good laugh at the expense of both gods and mortals, though never in such a fashion as to harm them. He has no personal realm, not one that he admits to anyway, and instead travels the Megaverse in his human guise, meeting new people, seeing new places, and most importantly learning new things. Magical knowledge is what he thirsts for most and has gone to many strange and dangerous places seeking his wealth of magical knowledge.
Where other God-Dragons limit their association with mortals, Feilong loves to walk and live among them in his human guise. His life “in the trenches” has given him great respect for what it means to be mortal, and the pain and sacrifice they live with on a daily basis. Because of this, and his nature as a Chiang-Ku, he has far more empathy and compassion than his God-Dragon kin, and likes to help people whenever he can. It has also made him much more world wise when it comes to technology than even his God-Dragon kin.

Real Name: daren Feilong Qian Lu

Alignment: Principled

Size: 200 Feet long and 80 feet tall (much smaller than other God-Dragons)

Appearance: Feilong, like all Chiang-Ku, has a long serpentine body covered in emerald green, triangular shaped scales, with two front limbs that end in dexterous hand like paws and sets of rear legs supporting his bulk (he has 6 sets instead of the normal 2) each ending in 3 toed feet. A crest of crimson spikes lead down his back to the tip of his tail and his talons are colored to match. His head is angular with a broad muzzle complete with long white whiskers above the mouth and a similar colored beard below. Behind the head right where the neck begins is a great black frill which, when erect, resembles a lion’s mane and is about 100 foot across.

Attributes: I.Q. 29, M.E. 30, M.A. 19, P.S. 58, P.P. 30, P.E. 30, P.B. 23, Spd 88 running, 220 flying.

Natural AR: 17

Hit Points: 19,600

S.D.C.: 15,000

P.P.E.: 12,000

I.S.P.: 2,400

Horror/Awe Factor: 16

Experience levels: 20th level Wizard, 20th level Tattoo Master, 12th level Techno-Wizard

Natural abilities: Astral travel, dragon's lair, dragon's dimensional travel, dragon's instinctive dimensional magic, impervious to heat, cold, and fire, impervious to drugs, poison, toxins, and gases, sense the location of ley lines, sense/recognize enchantment/magic 96%, see the invisible, turn invisible, nightvision (as if in daylight), speaks/reads/writes all languages (including rune), bio-regeneration 2D6xlOO S.D.C/hit points per minute, breathe without air, alert when sleeping (cannot be surprised), flight, metamorphosis (any; without limit, and can imitate specific individuals, persists unless coma or dead), unlike normal Chiang-Ku Feilong can teleport 98%, and dimensional teleport 92%.

Deific Powers: Feilong has the full range of power over his followers, or any followers of Dragonwright, and can perform all prototypical deific powers at regular cost, as well as the following:

Bio-Regeneration Deific: Same as the prototypical power but it costs Feilong only 75 P.P.E.

Bio-Regeneration Primal Deific: Same as the prototypical power but it costs Feilong only 200 P.P.E.

God-Dragon Tattoo ability: Feilong has the ability to use his blood in liquid form and a special tattoo needle made from his hardened blood to give magical tattoos to any being, supernatural, mortal, alien or otherwise. This only works if Feilong is the one using the needle and blood-ink, so it cannot be taught to others who can give magic tattoos, even if they had access to his blood-ink and needle.

Magical powers: All invocation and temporal magic at 20th level of ability, Knows all tattoo magic and has all known magic tattoos (as well as a few that are not shared) on his body, considers himself a novice in his newest (only in the 20 years since his awakening) interest of techno-wizardry (which he is quite sad he cannot practice currently as it does not work in his home dimension of Palladium).

Psionics: Alter Aura, Mind Block, Telekinesis, Telekinetic Push, Telekinetic Acceleration Attack, Levitation, Telekinetic Punch, Psychic Diagnosis, Psychic Surgery, Psychic Purification, Suppress Fear, Mask I.S.P. & Psionics, Mask P.P.E., Sixth Sense, Speed Reading, Bio-Manipulation, Empathic Transmission, P.P.E. Shield, Telekinesis (super), Telekinetic Force Field

Skills of note: All Rogue, All Espionage, All Mechanical, All Electrical and All Lore skills at 98%. Master of HtH Teng-Jutsu. WP: Sword, WP: Knife, WP: Staff, WP: Energy Rifle, WP: Heavy Energy, WP:
flamethrower.

Attacks per melee: 12 physical or 6 magic (or use optional P.P.E. Channeling rules)

Bonuses: (including adjustments from attributes) INITIATIVE +4, STRIKE +10, PARRY +11, DODGE +12, AUTODODGE “LEAP DODGE” +14, ROLL WITH PUNCH/FALL +4, PULL PUNCH +7, DISARM +5, Critical strike on natural 19-20, Critical strike on all kick attacks, Critical strike on all leap attacks. SAVE vs MAGIC +11, SAVE vs PSIONICS +9, SAVE vs HORROR FACTOR +5, SAVE vs INSANITY+13, SAVE vs ILLUSION +14. P.P.E. recovers at twice the normal rate.

Favorite weapons: Usually uses his hand in close quarters but likes to use TW guns at range (when in a realm where TW functions).

Armor: None

Alliances & Allies: Works well with Kym-nark-mar and Kormath as well as most Gods of Light. He also has started to rebuild his network of powerful human magic users throughout the Megaverse.

Enemies: Similar to Kym-nark-mar, he still considers the Old Ones to be his primary enemy, but will fight against any great sources of evil.

Vulnerabilities & Weaknesses: His compassion for mortals often makes him an easy mark for con men and beggars.

Technology: Loves it! All aspects of it. Uses it to emulate the breath weapon he lacks and has always been envious of.

RIFTS Earth: Has been paying attention to it ever since he has been back. He has spent much time there over the last 20 years and has helped many people while there. It’s is also where he has been learning and practicing his newfound love; Techno-Wizardry! M.D.C.: 34,000

Manifestations: While he can assume any form and can mimic specific individuals of any race he prefers to appear as a short human monk with a bald pate and spectacles, (picture the Dali Lama) dressed in a rough-spun black robe tied with a emerald green silk rope with red tassels. While in the guise he goes by the name Long or Lou Long if a first and last name are common.

Dragon Parts: Feilong’s scales to not fall off as do other dragons. Instead he sheds his skin in one piece, like a serpent, approximately once a century, and consumes the skin. If it ever were to fall into the hands of mortals who knows what unique properties it may have.

The Blood of Feilong: His blood comes out as an emerald green slime threaded with crimson and dries to a crumbly green and red solid over the course of a day. If harvested and processed while still liquid it can be used to prepare a magic tattoo ink which will remain liquid and potent for up to a year, an ink to inscribe wards and scrolls, and can also be processed into potions of metamorphosis. The tattoo ink instills any tattoos created with it will double strength/duration, half cost to activate and double the P.P.E bonus to the bearer. The ink to write with doubles the effects of whatever wards or scrolls are inscribed with it, and allows ANY ward to be scribed with just this blood-ink. The potions of metamorphosis do not lapse even when the drinker is sleeping or unconscious and are only canceled by the drinker willing it or if they enter a coma/die. The value of this blood is incalculable, an ounce of ink for tattoos can fetch hundreds of thousands of gold to millions of credits, the writing ink can easily fetch 50,000-150,000 gold and 3-5 times that many credits per ounce. A single potion of metamorphosis can sell for up to 500,000 gold or 3 million credits. The crumbly green and red solid must be collected before it is eroded away by the elements and can be heated and combined with quicksilver (mercury) to form a malleable, semi-solid, dull grey, metal that has the consistency of clay and only becomes rigid when I.S.P. is pumped into it. 1 I.S.P. must be spent for every melee the item is to be made solid. If over 500 I.S.P. is spent all at once the shape of the metal becomes set. When rigid, the metal cannot be bent or damaged by any amount of force, heat or cold.

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 12:37 am

Hope you enjoy. Special weapons, Tattoos, and possibly spells to come soon.

drewkitty ~..~ · Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:25 pm

I don't like that the you'd have to shape the blood-quicksilver mixture via the art skill.

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:00 pm

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:I don't like that the you'd have to shape the blood-quicksilver mixture via the art skill.

Nobody said you did.

You could easily make a copy of a key using the bar of soap method but with 3 pieces of the substance. You could form it around a nut (even a badly rounded nut) and make a perfectly sized wrench, ditto for a "security" fastener like the torx with a post in the hole so the torx bit needs a hole in the tip. Easy to pack in some grey-metal and harden it in place and voila instant bit for that type of fastener. There are tons of things you could make without an iota of "art" skill to carve or shape clay depending on what you wanted to accomplish. If you want to make a set of brass (grey metal in this case) knuckles, basic knife, or a hatchet head you could do that without the sculpting ability. Now if you want to replicate the look of a Sword of Atlantis yeah thats probably gonna take a skill roll.

Even if you could shape it with your mind I would still make complex shapes require a skill roll. Mechanical engineering for gears? Yep. Art/Sculpting for a statue? Yep. Etc.

Tor · Unread post by **Tor** » Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:25 pm

Glistam wrote:Would the Pantheon of Dragonwright even accept another Dragon-God? Doesn't that just mean less worshipers for the others? I can't imagine any of the Dragon-Gods being okay with that.

I think they'd be fine with it if the dragon brought their own worshippers to the table and helped the pantheon grow to get more, or steal them from other pantheons.
*Quetzalcoatl has at least the Aztecs, not to mention the astral kingdom in Nightlands.
*Apepi could leech worshippers from the Egyptians.
*Vritra could steal from the Indians
*Midgard Serpent from the Norse
*Od from the Northern
*Hel and Nidhogg from Dyval
*fake-Tiamat from the Babylonians (so long as Apsu is asleep)
*fake-Zeus from the Greeks

Thinyser wrote:Vritra the Obstructor (Technically a Demon lord but listed as a dragon-god)

I see him as both. Kind of like how Hel is both a deevil lord and a goddess. I think Rhada is also descrbied that way, how AbdulRa is a "god-boy".

The Ruiner wrote:I don't believe Set would ever let Apepi defect like that. If he did, it would probably be on a "keep tabs on this upstart group for me" type of spy game. Furthermore, unless I'm remembering incorrectly, is't Apepi feircly loyal to Set. He prolly wouldn't want to leave in the first place.

You'd have to change his mind, true, but once you did, what's Set going to do, kill him?

Thinyser wrote:Styphon the black is a probably a thunder lizard (he has poison breath). So yeah kind of a representation.

kiralon wrote:styphon has wings and is black and bronze and probably more likely to be a nightstalker (but seems to be more like a black dragon from another game).

I'd always assumed Styphon was a great horned based on Rifts Atlantis' "Styphathal" (alleged son) being a Great Horned.

I probably shouldn't assume that though. He could be lying, or if not, maybe it was Styphathal's mom who was horny and Styphon just used his deific "I can breed with anything" trait to cross the dragon-subspecies barrier.

Thinyser wrote:
Goliath Strongarm wrote:Remember, when the Dragon Gods were created by Kevin, it was for a home brew of that "Other" game.. so them resembling those makes a LOT of sense...

Really? Where is this stated?

I think the Defilers are mentioned as pre-dating the PRPG. I don't think it explicitly states D&D anywhere, but considering what was around at the time, it's a safe guess. One gets the impression that all the legendary stuff (Old Ones, dragon gods, Thoth) all happened in association with Defiler lore, though I'm not sure if that's actually explicitly declared anywhere.

Goliath Strongarm · Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:38 pm

It's been said before that PF was just Kevin's homebrew and houserule D&D.