Best spell list for an SDC rifts game

[Riftmaker]

Best spell list for an SDC rifts game

[13eowulf]

Use 'em all. (I voted Other)

[Killer Cyborg]

Any spells where we have SDC stats for the spell, use those stats.
Any spell from Rifts that doesn't have SDC stats, convert however seems most reasonable.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Starting with the HU spells and then augmenting it with the converted rifts spells.
Adding Spells from PF and NB as per relevance to the rifts setting.

[Glistam]

All of them at once, together. Convert M.D.C. to S.D.C. on a 1:1 basis when necessary, and for every spell that is duplicated use whichever version is best. Alternatively, leave all the versions in concurrently - that fits well with how Nightbane discusses magic. Also include the Mystic China spell list and the Chaos Magic spell list while you're at it.

[Slight001]

All of them at once, together. Convert M.D.C. to S.D.C. on a 1:1 basis when necessary, and for every spell that is duplicated use whichever version is best. Alternatively, leave all the versions in concurrently - that fits well with how Nightbane discusses magic. Also include the Mystic China spell list and the Chaos Magic spell list while you're at it.

This.

[kaid]

I would just go with convert 1:1 and grab the book of magic. Probably a good 1/3s of the spells in there are just conversions from SDC lists anyway so converting them back makes sense.

[Zer0 Kay]

Best spell list for an SDC rifts game

Agreed, include the Ludicrous and Trickster spells.

[drewkitty ~..~]

All of them at once, together. Convert M.D.C. to S.D.C. on a 1:1 basis when necessary, and for every spell that is duplicated use whichever version is best. Alternatively, leave all the versions in concurrently - that fits well with how Nightbane discusses magic. Also include the Mystic China spell list and the Chaos Magic spell list while you're at it.

This.

*Points out the difference between the SDC Armor of Ithan and the MDC AoI as the reason for using the HU2 spells 1st then bringing in converted rifts spells.*

[Glistam]

All of them at once, together. Convert M.D.C. to S.D.C. on a 1:1 basis when necessary, and for every spell that is duplicated use whichever version is best. Alternatively, leave all the versions in concurrently - that fits well with how Nightbane discusses magic. Also include the Mystic China spell list and the Chaos Magic spell list while you're at it.

This.

*Points out the difference between the SDC Armor of Ithan and the MDC AoI as the reason for using the HU2 spells 1st then bringing in converted rifts spells.*

The Rifts Armor of Ithan spell, if converted such that 1 M.D.C. = 1 S.D.C., would seem inferior. Especially at low levels. But the one advantage it has in this case is that it would have no A.R. to bypass. All attacks against the armored individual would have to get through the armor S.D.C. first, giving it some value when compared to the other versions.

This would be one good example of how there could be different versions of the same spell, and it's the sort of flavor that the magic system tries to have but doesn't actually manage to get across in the minutia of the rules. Bringing everything from all the books in would provide that flavor and variety.

[drewkitty ~..~]

All of them at once, together. Convert M.D.C. to S.D.C. on a 1:1 basis when necessary, and for every spell that is duplicated use whichever version is best. Alternatively, leave all the versions in concurrently - that fits well with how Nightbane discusses magic. Also include the Mystic China spell list and the Chaos Magic spell list while you're at it.

This.

*Points out the difference between the SDC Armor of Ithan and the MDC AoI as the reason for using the HU2 spells 1st then bringing in converted rifts spells.*

The Rifts Armor of Ithan spell, if converted such that 1 M.D.C. = 1 S.D.C., would seem inferior. Especially at low levels. But the one advantage it has in this case is that it would have no A.R. to bypass. All attacks against the armored individual would have to get through the armor S.D.C. first, giving it some value when compared to the other versions.

This would be one good example of how there could be different versions of the same spell, and it's the sort of flavor that the magic system tries to have but doesn't actually manage to get across in the minutia of the rules. Bringing everything from all the books in would provide that flavor and variety.

So what you are saying is that the AoI spells effects would have a Nat.AR 4 like all Force Fields when converted to SDC? (Before you , !Think! about the effects of having a Nat. AR 4.)

[eliakon]

All of them at once, together. Convert M.D.C. to S.D.C. on a 1:1 basis when necessary, and for every spell that is duplicated use whichever version is best. Alternatively, leave all the versions in concurrently - that fits well with how Nightbane discusses magic. Also include the Mystic China spell list and the Chaos Magic spell list while you're at it.

This.

*Points out the difference between the SDC Armor of Ithan and the MDC AoI as the reason for using the HU2 spells 1st then bringing in converted rifts spells.*

The Rifts Armor of Ithan spell, if converted such that 1 M.D.C. = 1 S.D.C., would seem inferior. Especially at low levels. But the one advantage it has in this case is that it would have no A.R. to bypass. All attacks against the armored individual would have to get through the armor S.D.C. first, giving it some value when compared to the other versions.

This would be one good example of how there could be different versions of the same spell, and it's the sort of flavor that the magic system tries to have but doesn't actually manage to get across in the minutia of the rules. Bringing everything from all the books in would provide that flavor and variety.

So what you are saying is that the AoI spells effects would have a Nat.AR 4 like all Force Fields when converted to SDC? (Before you , !Think! about the effects of having a Nat. AR 4.)

Don't you mean like the ONE force field has? (Not ALL Force Fields have an NAR4, just some of them)

[drewkitty ~..~]

*Points out the difference between the SDC Armor of Ithan and the MDC AoI as the reason for using the HU2 spells 1st then bringing in converted rifts spells.*

The Rifts Armor of Ithan spell, if converted such that 1 M.D.C. = 1 S.D.C., would seem inferior. Especially at low levels. But the one advantage it has in this case is that it would have no A.R. to bypass. All attacks against the armored individual would have to get through the armor S.D.C. first, giving it some value when compared to the other versions.

This would be one good example of how there could be different versions of the same spell, and it's the sort of flavor that the magic system tries to have but doesn't actually manage to get across in the minutia of the rules. Bringing everything from all the books in would provide that flavor and variety.

So what you are saying is that the AoI spells effects would have a Nat.AR 4 like all Force Fields when converted to SDC? (Before you , !Think! about the effects of having a Nat. AR 4.)

Don't you mean like the ONE force field has? (Not ALL Force Fields have an NAR4, just some of them)

I note one person who did not do his !!THINKING!! on "Nat.AR 4" before responding.

[eliakon]

*Points out the difference between the SDC Armor of Ithan and the MDC AoI as the reason for using the HU2 spells 1st then bringing in converted rifts spells.*

The Rifts Armor of Ithan spell, if converted such that 1 M.D.C. = 1 S.D.C., would seem inferior. Especially at low levels. But the one advantage it has in this case is that it would have no A.R. to bypass. All attacks against the armored individual would have to get through the armor S.D.C. first, giving it some value when compared to the other versions.

This would be one good example of how there could be different versions of the same spell, and it's the sort of flavor that the magic system tries to have but doesn't actually manage to get across in the minutia of the rules. Bringing everything from all the books in would provide that flavor and variety.

So what you are saying is that the AoI spells effects would have a Nat.AR 4 like all Force Fields when converted to SDC? (Before you , !Think! about the effects of having a Nat. AR 4.)

Don't you mean like the ONE force field has? (Not ALL Force Fields have an NAR4, just some of them)

I note one person who did not do his !!THINKING!! on "Nat.AR 4" before responding.

I know what nAR4 is, and means (it means if your hit it damages the field) but that's not the point. The point is that only one FF explicitly has nAR4, and several others actually have regular ARs (which means they CAN be bypassed). I

[drewkitty ~..~]

And reguler Force Fields are ether hit or missed, and to damage what is inside of them they have to be depleted. Which says they have a Nat AR 4, which is ether hit or missed & can't be bypassed. Same Mechanics means they are the same thing with different names. Yes, that does mean Vehicle AR and Robotic AR are the same as Nat.AR and "no ar".
That is the point! I didn't want to have to argue about.
--------------------
BTW which FF specifically says it has a Nat. AR 4?(book&page please)

[eliakon]

And reguler Force Fields are ether hit or missed, and to damage what is inside of them they have to be depleted. Which says they have a Nat AR 4. Same Mechanics means they are the same thing with different names. Yes, that does mean Vehicle AR and Robotic AR are the same as Nat.AR and "no ar".
That is the point!
--------------------
BTW which FF specifically says it has a Nat. AR 4?(book&page please)

Actually there is a difference between 'always hit' and nAR4. While the effect is the same, the mechanics need to be different, since there are things that boost AR. And I would say that is the same for Vehicle AR/Robotic AR. Its mechanics are the same as nAR, but it is not the same thing. For one thing there is the possibility of something having an effect on V/R AR that it doesn't on N AR.

And the only one that I can think of that has an AR of 4 (natural or not) is Mystic Shield. The n is, as you know, from the discussions of how if its not natural, then it is totally pointless (with out AR boosting effects)

[drewkitty ~..~]

And regular Force Fields are ether hit or missed, and to damage what is inside of them they have to be depleted. Which says they have a Nat AR 4. Same Mechanics means they are the same thing with different names. Yes, that does mean Vehicle AR and Robotic AR are the same as Nat.AR and "no ar".
That is the point!
--------------------
BTW which FF specifically says it has a Nat. AR 4?(book&page please)

Actually there is a difference between 'always hit' and nAR4. While the effect is the same, the mechanics need to be different, since there are things that boost AR. And I would say that is the same for Vehicle AR/Robotic AR. Its mechanics are the same as nAR, but it is not the same thing. For one thing there is the possibility of something having an effect on V/R AR that it doesn't on N AR.

And the only one that I can think of that has an AR of 4 (natural or not) is Mystic Shield. The n is, as you know, from the discussions of how if its not natural, then it is totally pointless (with out AR boosting effects)

Sorry you are mistaken, there are Things do miss a Nat AR4 protection, It is call it being MISSED. There is no bouncing off mechanic because gggeee ohhh myy you missed this part If the shooter or attacker rolls under the Nat AR 4 They Have Missed the Attack Outright and the bouncing/deflecting/soaking mechanic is Moot because it CAN NOT take effect.

Since things that can raise an AR's value are probably in the Character Creation topic I am going to ignore that attempt to side track the discussion.

[eliakon]

And regular Force Fields are ether hit or missed, and to damage what is inside of them they have to be depleted. Which says they have a Nat AR 4. Same Mechanics means they are the same thing with different names. Yes, that does mean Vehicle AR and Robotic AR are the same as Nat.AR and "no ar".
That is the point!
--------------------
BTW which FF specifically says it has a Nat. AR 4?(book&page please)

Actually there is a difference between 'always hit' and nAR4. While the effect is the same, the mechanics need to be different, since there are things that boost AR. And I would say that is the same for Vehicle AR/Robotic AR. Its mechanics are the same as nAR, but it is not the same thing. For one thing there is the possibility of something having an effect on V/R AR that it doesn't on N AR.

And the only one that I can think of that has an AR of 4 (natural or not) is Mystic Shield. The n is, as you know, from the discussions of how if its not natural, then it is totally pointless (with out AR boosting effects)

Sorry you are mistaken, there are Things do miss a Nat AR4 protection, It is call it being MISSED. There is no bouncing off mechanic because gggeee ohhh myy you missed this part If the shooter or attacker rolls under the Nat AR 4 They Have Missed the Attack Outright and the bouncing/deflecting/soaking mechanic is Moot because it can not take effect.

Since things that can raise an AR's value are probably in the Character Creation topic I am going to ignore that attempt to side track the discussion.

Just off hand I can think of the PF magic item that adds +1/+2 to AR, including natural and worn....
And missing is still not the same. Since it is, in fact possible to raise the nAR to a 6, or more then there is in fact a difference between always hitting the field and AR (Another issue would be a weapon that ignores AR....which would ignore a defense with nAR but not something that is 'must be depleted first')
So, yes it actually IS important to call things what they are and not just lump things together

[Glistam]

All of them at once, together. Convert M.D.C. to S.D.C. on a 1:1 basis when necessary, and for every spell that is duplicated use whichever version is best. Alternatively, leave all the versions in concurrently - that fits well with how Nightbane discusses magic. Also include the Mystic China spell list and the Chaos Magic spell list while you're at it.

This.

*Points out the difference between the SDC Armor of Ithan and the MDC AoI as the reason for using the HU2 spells 1st then bringing in converted rifts spells.*

The Rifts Armor of Ithan spell, if converted such that 1 M.D.C. = 1 S.D.C., would seem inferior. Especially at low levels. But the one advantage it has in this case is that it would have no A.R. to bypass. All attacks against the armored individual would have to get through the armor S.D.C. first, giving it some value when compared to the other versions.

This would be one good example of how there could be different versions of the same spell, and it's the sort of flavor that the magic system tries to have but doesn't actually manage to get across in the minutia of the rules. Bringing everything from all the books in would provide that flavor and variety.

So what you are saying is that the AoI spells effects would have a Nat.AR 4 like all Force Fields when converted to SDC? (Before you , !Think! about the effects of having a Nat. AR 4.)

No, that is not what I am saying or what I said. I said no A.R.. Treat it exactly like the special S.D.C. body armor that the Heroes Unlimited Hardware: Analytical Genius can make, or like the S.D.C. protection provided by the super psychic power of Psychic Body Field as written on page 91 of Heroes Unlimited: Powers Unlimited 1.

[Thinyser]

Use 'em all. (I voted Other)

This.