CS Solar Roadways

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CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by GBAnnihilator »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1-orzcuFhs
Sense the CS have the ability to make solar power could they be able to make solar roadways. This would give them a massive energy tap for their vehicles, weapons, and or whatever else. It would also let them communicate faster, and make it easier to capture and control areas. Also like this video said, the burbies could possibly become CS citizens after working on the roads for "x" amount of years.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

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It would be even less practical in rifts timeline than today (people with more money than brains fell for and are funding this)
It's Massive waste of resources and i'd be stealing those panels like a over juiced juicer to get at all that hardware that I could put to far better use.

It would be vastly easier in time, money, and resources to be creating a mega damage capable asphalt analog.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by rat_bastard »

Yeah Solar Roadways are an incredibly dumb idea and the CS has access to Fusion and incredible nuclear capabilities as well as solar and are in the Saudi Arabia of wind power they don't need to waste it on boondoggles like solar roads.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

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I see it as impractical in the CS due to the distance between settlements and the relatively high threat in the wilderness.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by wyrmraker »

I could see the CS using the Super Solar panels from the Robotics builds on buildings as a way to keep their nuclear material usage down.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

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wyrmraker wrote:I could see the CS using the Super Solar panels from the Robotics builds on buildings as a way to keep their nuclear material usage down.

They'd have panels on the mega cities as well.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by eliakon »

TheOttoman wrote:
wyrmraker wrote:I could see the CS using the Super Solar panels from the Robotics builds on buildings as a way to keep their nuclear material usage down.


You mean Hydrogen? That's kinda plentiful.

The mysterious 'nuclear fuel' in the ubiquitous nuclear reactors of the setting. If the reactor is breached it can pose a radiation hazard, so its radioactive....but it also is compact, common, and long lived. The best speculation is that its a radioactive isotope of Handwavium-259, Though the less common but more potent Plotonium-286 is also a leading contender. :bandit: :clown: :crane:
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by guardiandashi »

TheOttoman wrote:
eliakon wrote:
TheOttoman wrote:
wyrmraker wrote:I could see the CS using the Super Solar panels from the Robotics builds on buildings as a way to keep their nuclear material usage down.


You mean Hydrogen? That's kinda plentiful.

The mysterious 'nuclear fuel' in the ubiquitous nuclear reactors of the setting. If the reactor is breached it can pose a radiation hazard, so its radioactive....but it also is compact, common, and long lived. The best speculation is that its a radioactive isotope of Handwavium-259, Though the less common but more potent Plotonium-286 is also a leading contender. :bandit: :clown: :crane:




The differences between fusion and fission......

I may have missed something but every "nuclear" power source I have seen on rifts earth unless it specifically and EXPLICITLY says it is fusion is fission.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by dragonfett »

guardiandashi wrote:
TheOttoman wrote:
eliakon wrote:
TheOttoman wrote:
wyrmraker wrote:I could see the CS using the Super Solar panels from the Robotics builds on buildings as a way to keep their nuclear material usage down.


You mean Hydrogen? That's kinda plentiful.

The mysterious 'nuclear fuel' in the ubiquitous nuclear reactors of the setting. If the reactor is breached it can pose a radiation hazard, so its radioactive....but it also is compact, common, and long lived. The best speculation is that its a radioactive isotope of Handwavium-259, Though the less common but more potent Plotonium-286 is also a leading contender. :bandit: :clown: :crane:




The differences between fusion and fission......

I may have missed something but every "nuclear" power source I have seen on rifts earth unless it specifically and EXPLICITLY says it is fusion is fission.


That's probably because the authors don't understand the differences between fusion and fission.

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Nuclea ... ear_Fusion
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Nightmask »

TheOttoman wrote:In looking at a couple of books, the term "fusion" seems to be tied only to explosives, and things in terms of propulsion just seem to be put under the catch-all of "nuclear" and doesn't explicitly state (though I only looked through three books - the main book, triax and Coalition Navy). In fact, the only reference to fission is in the Navy book when they talk about nuclear explosions.


There's also reference to the nuclear cores in things like power armor being destroyed and spreading dangerous radioactive materials into the environment, making them fission-powered devices. Outside of Fusion Blocks (which while named that don't appear to be fusion bombs) and the fusion-propulsion systems of some space vehicles there doesn't appear to be any kind of fusion power going on in the Rifts setting (although it apparently is available in Heroes Unlimited).
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Nightmask »

TheOttoman wrote:
Nightmask wrote:There's also reference to the nuclear cores in things like power armor being destroyed and spreading dangerous radioactive materials into the environment, making them fission-powered devices. Outside of Fusion Blocks (which while named that don't appear to be fusion bombs) and the fusion-propulsion systems of some space vehicles there doesn't appear to be any kind of fusion power going on in the Rifts setting (although it apparently is available in Heroes Unlimited).


It's also the main form of power in the revised Robotech Macross book.


Which doesn't really apply any to Rifts, Robotech has a number of things Rifts doesn't and vice versa (they'd likely love to have access to Glitter Boy technology).
Fair warning: I consider being called a munchkin a highly offensive slur and do report people when they err in doing so.

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It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by GBAnnihilator »

rat_bastard wrote:Yeah Solar Roadways are an incredibly dumb idea and the CS has access to Fusion and incredible nuclear capabilities as well as solar and are in the Saudi Arabia of wind power they don't need to waste it on boondoggles like solar roads.

Yea you say that now, but what if it works. :D ;)
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Nightmask »

TheOttoman wrote:
Nightmask wrote:
TheOttoman wrote:
Nightmask wrote:There's also reference to the nuclear cores in things like power armor being destroyed and spreading dangerous radioactive materials into the environment, making them fission-powered devices. Outside of Fusion Blocks (which while named that don't appear to be fusion bombs) and the fusion-propulsion systems of some space vehicles there doesn't appear to be any kind of fusion power going on in the Rifts setting (although it apparently is available in Heroes Unlimited).


It's also the main form of power in the revised Robotech Macross book.


Which doesn't really apply any to Rifts, Robotech has a number of things Rifts doesn't and vice versa (they'd likely love to have access to Glitter Boy technology).



I would think that it has just as much application as Heroes Unlimited.... but po-ta-toe / po-tat-o


Not as an example of something in Rifts. What exists in one setting doesn't have to exist in another. So you can't use Robotech as an example of fusion-based power in Rifts because it's not Rifts it's Robotech, you need something actually from Rifts that is fusion-powered rather than fission-powered as an example. You're giving an apples and oranges deal.
Fair warning: I consider being called a munchkin a highly offensive slur and do report people when they err in doing so.

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It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by GBAnnihilator »

Gamer wrote:It would be even less practical in rifts timeline than today (people with more money than brains fell for and are funding this)
It's Massive waste of resources and i'd be stealing those panels like a over juiced juicer to get at all that hardware that I could put to far better use.

It would be vastly easier in time, money, and resources to be creating a mega damage capable asphalt analog.

Fine then, just put power cables, phone lines and whatever else under your asphalt analog. "far better use" like what? It said we'd be making three or more times the energy than what we already are, and electricity prices would be plummeting. The nation might even be able to get the economy out of the toilet. Just think of what the CS could do with all the extra creds.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Blue_Lion »

Umm I do not see anything that leads me to think the CS is tring to limit there use of nuclear power sources, in fact almost every vehicle they make has one. They use them to provide material for the navies nukes.

I am curious what books have the references you mentioned about a PA reactor being breached and contaminating the environment? Do you have a book and page number?
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Nightmask »

Sthulver wrote:
Blue_Lion wrote:Umm I do not see anything that leads me to think the CS is tring to limit there use of nuclear power sources, in fact almost every vehicle they make has one. They use them to provide material for the navies nukes.

I am curious what books have the references you mentioned about a PA reactor being breached and contaminating the environment? Do you have a book and page number?


I believe he might be referencing the Rifts novels. . . I believe it was mentioned in the first book Sonic Boom.


No it does mention in at least one of the Rifts books the hazards of breaching the nuclear power core on a vehicle or power armor.
Fair warning: I consider being called a munchkin a highly offensive slur and do report people when they err in doing so.

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It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Blue_Lion »

GBAnnihilator wrote:
Gamer wrote:It would be even less practical in rifts timeline than today (people with more money than brains fell for and are funding this)
It's Massive waste of resources and i'd be stealing those panels like a over juiced juicer to get at all that hardware that I could put to far better use.

It would be vastly easier in time, money, and resources to be creating a mega damage capable asphalt analog.

Fine then, just put power cables, phone lines and whatever else under your asphalt analog. "far better use" like what? It said we'd be making three or more times the energy than what we already are, and electricity prices would be plummeting. The nation might even be able to get the economy out of the toilet. Just think of what the CS could do with all the extra creds.


You do know that it would require large amount of upkeep. Out of all the renewable energy the only form that is competive to for commercial production is wind.

Not the best sorce to use, but it matches what I learned in school depending on what formula a sight uses as well as the numbers they use numbers may very but over all, solar power is not as cheep as you would think. It is not free endless power. The CS is also in a good spot for wind farms say in their bread basket of farm lands.
Throw in fact that many solar panels may be destroyed or stolen if left just sitting on a road in rifts earth. I see most power used by the cities in rifts. Transporting your power from outside sources would mean the risk of frequent power outages. The lines would get disrupted or cut.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_el ... _by_source
The Clones are coming you shall all be replaced, but who is to say you have not been replaced already.

Master of Type-O and the obvios.

Soon my army oc clones and winged-monkies will rule the world but first, must .......

I may debate canon and RAW, but the games I run are highly house ruled. So I am not debating for how I play but about how the system works as written.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Blue_Lion »

Nightmask wrote:
Sthulver wrote:
Blue_Lion wrote:Umm I do not see anything that leads me to think the CS is tring to limit there use of nuclear power sources, in fact almost every vehicle they make has one. They use them to provide material for the navies nukes.

I am curious what books have the references you mentioned about a PA reactor being breached and contaminating the environment? Do you have a book and page number?


I believe he might be referencing the Rifts novels. . . I believe it was mentioned in the first book Sonic Boom.


No it does mention in at least one of the Rifts books the hazards of breaching the nuclear power core on a vehicle or power armor.

There are allot off books can you narrow it down a bit more than that?
The Clones are coming you shall all be replaced, but who is to say you have not been replaced already.

Master of Type-O and the obvios.

Soon my army oc clones and winged-monkies will rule the world but first, must .......

I may debate canon and RAW, but the games I run are highly house ruled. So I am not debating for how I play but about how the system works as written.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Nightmask »

Blue_Lion wrote:
Nightmask wrote:
Sthulver wrote:
Blue_Lion wrote:Umm I do not see anything that leads me to think the CS is tring to limit there use of nuclear power sources, in fact almost every vehicle they make has one. They use them to provide material for the navies nukes.

I am curious what books have the references you mentioned about a PA reactor being breached and contaminating the environment? Do you have a book and page number?


I believe he might be referencing the Rifts novels. . . I believe it was mentioned in the first book Sonic Boom.


No it does mention in at least one of the Rifts books the hazards of breaching the nuclear power core on a vehicle or power armor.


There are allot off books can you narrow it down a bit more than that?


If it were that easy to track down I'd have already done so, but as you note there are a lot of books to find the one or two spots it mentions the dangerous radioactive mess you get if you breach a nuclear power core.
Fair warning: I consider being called a munchkin a highly offensive slur and do report people when they err in doing so.

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It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by guardiandashi »

TheOttoman wrote:
Blue_Lion wrote:
Nightmask wrote:
Sthulver wrote:
Blue_Lion wrote:Umm I do not see anything that leads me to think the CS is tring to limit there use of nuclear power sources, in fact almost every vehicle they make has one. They use them to provide material for the navies nukes.

I am curious what books have the references you mentioned about a PA reactor being breached and contaminating the environment? Do you have a book and page number?


I believe he might be referencing the Rifts novels. . . I believe it was mentioned in the first book Sonic Boom.


No it does mention in at least one of the Rifts books the hazards of breaching the nuclear power core on a vehicle or power armor.

There are allot off books can you narrow it down a bit more than that?



The main book has the following for Robot Vehicles stating that all robot vehicles have the following features:

"Self-Destruct: A last resort measure to prevent one's robot from being captured by the enemy. The explosive damage is fairly self contained, destroying most of the internal systems with 2D6 x 10 M.D. However, it is very likely, 1-89% chance, that the nuclear power system is spewing forth deadly levels of radiation!" - pg. 214

Also, in the Glitter Boy description:

"The nuclear power pack presents a danger to life from radiation leaks. However, the power pack is well shielded and encased in a lightweight mega-damage alloy (40 M.D.C.). Note that the power pack will not explode if breached or even destroyed, but it will contaminate the area with deadly radiation. A radiation alarm system sounds an alarm to warn the operator of a leak." - pg. 226


Take all of that as you will.

there was a brief mention in the CWC book under NBC warfare about it allows you to know how to protect yourself and others, and clean up the contamination.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Blue_Lion »

TheOttoman wrote:
GBAnnihilator wrote:The nation might even be able to get the economy out of the toilet. Just think of what the CS could do with all the extra creds.


Not to take this further off-topic, but the Coalition "prints" it own money, they can valueate it as they need to, effectively unchecked as they are their own bankers. Currently, I don't think that there is anything canon that would make for a need to raise money. If the Coalition can afford to have a military larger than the post-cold war US, with a smaller population and at the prices listed for equipment, they have nothing limiting them financially.


When dealing with outside people there economy is not unlimited, it is not a bank in a bottle but the NA bank a stunt like that would hurt them in one of their main areas importing, read the part on wilks in rue back in the equipment section. Wilks provides compotes used by the CS war machine if they do not value your currency they are going to charge you more for the parts to make your SAMAS and skelabots work, increasing your cost to maintain your war machine. Not to mention most likely parts to make your uber unneeded road. CS does not have thousands of cities needing power they have a few with the ability to make the needed energy close to home.
The Clones are coming you shall all be replaced, but who is to say you have not been replaced already.

Master of Type-O and the obvios.

Soon my army oc clones and winged-monkies will rule the world but first, must .......

I may debate canon and RAW, but the games I run are highly house ruled. So I am not debating for how I play but about how the system works as written.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Gamer »

GBAnnihilator wrote:
Gamer wrote:It would be even less practical in rifts timeline than today (people with more money than brains fell for and are funding this)
It's Massive waste of resources and i'd be stealing those panels like a over juiced juicer to get at all that hardware that I could put to far better use.

It would be vastly easier in time, money, and resources to be creating a mega damage capable asphalt analog.

Fine then, just put power cables, phone lines and whatever else under your asphalt analog. "far better use" like what? It said we'd be making three or more times the energy than what we already are, and electricity prices would be plummeting. The nation might even be able to get the economy out of the toilet. Just think of what the CS could do with all the extra creds.


You obviously must not understand the science behind their claims and the level of B.S. they are heaping on it.
It's pushing Golden age technology level of science fiction and presenting it for now.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Shark_Force »

if it cost us nothing to make solar panels, it would probably be a good idea. but it doesn't cost nothing. which is why we don't use solar power for everything.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by GBAnnihilator »

Gamer wrote:
GBAnnihilator wrote:
Gamer wrote:It would be even less practical in rifts timeline than today (people with more money than brains fell for and are funding this)
It's Massive waste of resources and i'd be stealing those panels like a over juiced juicer to get at all that hardware that I could put to far better use.

It would be vastly easier in time, money, and resources to be creating a mega damage capable asphalt analog.

Fine then, just put power cables, phone lines and whatever else under your asphalt analog. "far better use" like what? It said we'd be making three or more times the energy than what we already are, and electricity prices would be plummeting. The nation might even be able to get the economy out of the toilet. Just think of what the CS could do with all the extra creds.


You obviously must not understand the science behind their claims and the level of B.S. they are heaping on it.
It's pushing Golden age technology level of science fiction and presenting it for now.

How is that a bad thing, it'll just get us to the future faster. The future doesn't just show up, we make the future, and we've got to start somewhere!
Though we could still put the power cables and phone lines under the roads, in both worlds. If the CS did that their cities could communicate a ton faster, and they may even be able to actually control their borders if they could put in cameras (or maybe even turrets) along the road. If anything non-human even crosses the road, they know it, and can send out a party to exterminate it.
Last edited by GBAnnihilator on Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by GBAnnihilator »

Shark_Force wrote:if it cost us nothing to make solar panels, it would probably be a good idea. but it doesn't cost nothing. which is why we don't use solar power for everything.

that's why they're recycling garbage to make the roads so it reduces the price and gets rid of garbage.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Thinyser »

GBAnnihilator wrote:
Shark_Force wrote:if it cost us nothing to make solar panels, it would probably be a good idea. but it doesn't cost nothing. which is why we don't use solar power for everything.

that's why they're recycling garbage to make the roads so it reduces the price and gets rid of garbage.

Everybody who knows anything about solar power thinks this is a huge boondoggle. Its an EPIC failure of an idea, that has amassed a large number of dimwitted but good hearted backers.

http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/energy ... -a-project

http://science.howstuffworks.com/enviro ... ghway2.htm

http://jalopnik.com/why-the-solar-roadw ... 1582519375

http://www.drroyspencer.com/2014/05/sol ... -bad-idea/
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Shark_Force »

GBAnnihilator wrote:
Shark_Force wrote:if it cost us nothing to make solar panels, it would probably be a good idea. but it doesn't cost nothing. which is why we don't use solar power for everything.

that's why they're recycling garbage to make the roads so it reduces the price and gets rid of garbage.


we have to be throwing out solar panel materials before you can make solar panels out of recycled garbage. enough to put these panels on every inch of paved ground. which we aren't. so no, they aren't going to make them out of recycled garbage. (on a side note, odds are pretty good that your *current* roads are also made out of recycled garbage, and they don't come cheap either)

you don't make PCBs, coated copper wires, electrical components, and solar panels out of just anything, you know. for that matter, while it's promising to generate lots of electricity, it sounds like they're also planning on using a lot of electricity. you don't get programmable LED panels or even pressure sensors without having an electrical current, plus you're going to need something capable of receiving input from these sensors and controlling all those LED panels.

also, it's a load of crap that this is going to somehow prevent potholes. you're driving on it. there will be wear and tear. some of that will manifest in the form of pushing stuff into the ground, or breaking chunks off and throwing them aside. it's simply a natural result of having that much energy applied to the ground. it passes the stress tests to be allowed as road materials. guess what? so does the stuff they're making roads out of right now.

and the jobs it promises to create? well, first off, you know what else creates a lot of jobs? the roads we drive on right now. secondly, the government spending billions of dollars they don't have is not the way to fix your economy. it's better than everyone being on welfare and not getting anythign back, but unless the plan is to make everyone who is currently on welfare (without legitimate reason) work on these roads, it's going to be jobs created in exchange for jobs lost, and the government spending billions of dollars (or more) on this plan.

on a side note, burying cables etc is a great idea (but does not require that you put it inside the road). but it's a terrible idea if you have hundreds of enemies and no plausible way to secure the entire path where the cables are buried. the CS doesn't use radio because they're incapable of laying cable between their cities, they use radio because some idiot with a laser pistol can dig really deep really fast and sever your cables before you can practically speaking expect to respond, and they've made enemies of a lot of idiots with laser pistols.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by GBAnnihilator »

Blue_Lion wrote:
TheOttoman wrote:
GBAnnihilator wrote:The nation might even be able to get the economy out of the toilet. Just think of what the CS could do with all the extra creds.


Not to take this further off-topic, but the Coalition "prints" it own money, they can valueate it as they need to, effectively unchecked as they are their own bankers. Currently, I don't think that there is anything canon that would make for a need to raise money. If the Coalition can afford to have a military larger than the post-cold war US, with a smaller population and at the prices listed for equipment, they have nothing limiting them financially.


When dealing with outside people there economy is not unlimited, it is not a bank in a bottle but the NA bank a stunt like that would hurt them in one of their main areas importing, read the part on wilks in rue back in the equipment section. Wilks provides compotes used by the CS war machine if they do not value your currency they are going to charge you more for the parts to make your SAMAS and skelabots work, increasing your cost to maintain your war machine. Not to mention most likely parts to make your uber unneeded road. CS does not have thousands of cities needing power they have a few with the ability to make the needed energy close to home.

They could use it to expand and conquer the rest of Post-America, and save human kind! The road would let them communicate between cities and keep control of their territory. The roads could have cameras/turrets, and they could keep an eye on the small towns in their territory. This could help them gain control of land and gain more power to grow there already great cities.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by eliakon »

GBAnnihilator wrote:
Blue_Lion wrote:
TheOttoman wrote:
GBAnnihilator wrote:The nation might even be able to get the economy out of the toilet. Just think of what the CS could do with all the extra creds.


Not to take this further off-topic, but the Coalition "prints" it own money, they can valueate it as they need to, effectively unchecked as they are their own bankers. Currently, I don't think that there is anything canon that would make for a need to raise money. If the Coalition can afford to have a military larger than the post-cold war US, with a smaller population and at the prices listed for equipment, they have nothing limiting them financially.


When dealing with outside people there economy is not unlimited, it is not a bank in a bottle but the NA bank a stunt like that would hurt them in one of their main areas importing, read the part on wilks in rue back in the equipment section. Wilks provides compotes used by the CS war machine if they do not value your currency they are going to charge you more for the parts to make your SAMAS and skelabots work, increasing your cost to maintain your war machine. Not to mention most likely parts to make your uber unneeded road. CS does not have thousands of cities needing power they have a few with the ability to make the needed energy close to home.

They could use it to expand and conquer the rest of Post-America, and save human kind! The road would let them communicate between cities and keep control of their territory. The roads could have cameras/turrets, and they could keep an eye on the small towns in their territory. This could help them gain control of land and gain more power to grow there already great cities.

The CS doesn't NEED roads, that's what Death Heads are for.
As for the idea of turrets and cameras....that's yet even more drain on resources, which will need even more repairs...and its give people even MORE targets to attack. Roads might be useful, IF they manage to 'pacify' North America. But right now it would just be a huge target, that would drain materials and manpower from other tasks.
Now I CAN see this sort of thing in Japan connecting the Tech Cities. And infact its just the sort of thing that would help make those places seem 'pre rifts' and 'high tech'
And bits of pre-rifts MDC Solar roads that still function (sort of) could be...interesting....bits of road connecting nowhere with noplace that have active traffic symbols.....
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by GBAnnihilator »

Shark_Force wrote:
GBAnnihilator wrote:
Shark_Force wrote:if it cost us nothing to make solar panels, it would probably be a good idea. but it doesn't cost nothing. which is why we don't use solar power for everything.

that's why they're recycling garbage to make the roads so it reduces the price and gets rid of garbage.


we have to be throwing out solar panel materials before you can make solar panels out of recycled garbage. enough to put these panels on every inch of paved ground. which we aren't. so no, they aren't going to make them out of recycled garbage. (on a side note, odds are pretty good that your *current* roads are also made out of recycled garbage, and they don't come cheap either)

you don't make PCBs, coated copper wires, electrical components, and solar panels out of just anything, you know. for that matter, while it's promising to generate lots of electricity, it sounds like they're also planning on using a lot of electricity. you don't get programmable LED panels or even pressure sensors without having an electrical current, plus you're going to need something capable of receiving input from these sensors and controlling all those LED panels.

also, it's a load of crap that this is going to somehow prevent potholes. you're driving on it. there will be wear and tear. some of that will manifest in the form of pushing stuff into the ground, or breaking chunks off and throwing them aside. it's simply a natural result of having that much energy applied to the ground. it passes the stress tests to be allowed as road materials. guess what? so does the stuff they're making roads out of right now.

and the jobs it promises to create? well, first off, you know what else creates a lot of jobs? the roads we drive on right now. secondly, the government spending billions of dollars they don't have is not the way to fix your economy. it's better than everyone being on welfare and not getting anythign back, but unless the plan is to make everyone who is currently on welfare (without legitimate reason) work on these roads, it's going to be jobs created in exchange for jobs lost, and the government spending billions of dollars (or more) on this plan.

on a side note, burying cables etc is a great idea (but does not require that you put it inside the road). but it's a terrible idea if you have hundreds of enemies and no plausible way to secure the entire path where the cables are buried. the CS doesn't use radio because they're incapable of laying cable between their cities, they use radio because some idiot with a laser pistol can dig really deep really fast and sever your cables before you can practically speaking expect to respond, and they've made enemies of a lot of idiots with laser pistols.

Yea the roads going to break that's why they're in panels so you can just replace them, and they generate more power than regular solar panels, so they can power themselves too. You don't need solar panels to build solar panels you just need the know how and the stuff to make it. Anyway, solar panels don't come as solar panels you have to make all the parts from scratch.
If that doesn't work why don't they just make see through solar windows, anything that's cleaner than Nuclear.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by GBAnnihilator »

Thinyser wrote:
GBAnnihilator wrote:
Shark_Force wrote:if it cost us nothing to make solar panels, it would probably be a good idea. but it doesn't cost nothing. which is why we don't use solar power for everything.

that's why they're recycling garbage to make the roads so it reduces the price and gets rid of garbage.

Everybody who knows anything about solar power thinks this is a huge boondoggle. Its an EPIC failure of an idea, that has amassed a large number of dimwitted but good hearted backers.

If you through enough ideas at something it should work at some point. That's my philosophy. :lol:
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Shark_Force »

GBAnnihilator wrote:Yea the roads going to break that's why they're in panels so you can just replace them, and they generate more power than regular solar panels, so they can power themselves too. You don't need solar panels to build solar panels you just need the know how and the stuff to make it. Anyway, solar panels don't come as solar panels you have to make all the parts from scratch.
If that doesn't work why don't they just make see through solar windows, anything that's cleaner than Nuclear.


the roads are supposed to earn back their cost over 20 years. if you're constantly replacing them, they're not earning their cost; unless the road is somehow going to magically last 20 years, that simply isn't going to happen. seriously, do the research; if this road is going to need maintenance, and costs more to build than a regular road, you are going to have just as many potholes, and you're not going to be saving *any* money.

unless they're magical, they're not generating more power than regular solar panels. the glass is not perfectly clear. the roads are not being angled towards the sun. the roads are not perfectly clean and spotless. the roads are not completely unobstructed (if nothing else, they constantly have cars traveling across them). the solar panels inside the solar road are not some new and amazing technology, and if they were, they would function better not in a road than they would in a road.

and no, you don't need solar panels in the garbage to recycle into solar panels, but you DO need the materials that solar panels are being made out of to be in the garbage, in sufficient quantities to replace every road in use. that isn't happening. the surface area they're talking about is absurdly large.

it's a neat idea. but it doesn't work, and there is no practical expectation that it will work any time in the foreseeable future.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Thinyser »

GBAnnihilator wrote:
Thinyser wrote:
GBAnnihilator wrote:
Shark_Force wrote:if it cost us nothing to make solar panels, it would probably be a good idea. but it doesn't cost nothing. which is why we don't use solar power for everything.

that's why they're recycling garbage to make the roads so it reduces the price and gets rid of garbage.

Everybody who knows anything about solar power thinks this is a huge boondoggle. Its an EPIC failure of an idea, that has amassed a large number of dimwitted but good hearted backers.

If you through enough ideas at something it should work at some point. That's my philosophy. :lol:


Nope. Throwing a bunch of crap ideas at a wall and hoping some of them stick and turn into sparks of brilliance is not at all a reliable way to develop technology or any idea.

These people went to crowd funding because no legit investors would touch this with a 10' pole. Because pure and simple it's a horrible idea. Cost vs benefit it is a no go.

You could accomplish a similar effect with solar canopies OVER the roads. It would not take up much more space, plus it would actually shield the road from sun and rain and therefore make it last longer as there would be less damage from water seeping into cracks and freezing (which is the primary form of damage to roads).

Personally I think that all* surface level parking lots (and top floors of parking garages) should be required by law to have solar canopies (after a certain date say by the end of 2030) and make this electricity available first to charge electric vehicles in said lots and then to feed the grid what is leftover.

Yes ALL. Even city owned paid parking at the roadside, if it has a parking meter it has to have it. If its for a strip mall it has to have it, If its for a real mall it has to have it, big box stores, small business, airports, bus/train stations, hospitals, hotels, motels, call centers, etc. etc. etc! EVERY parking lot has to have it. The only exceptions would be non paid roadside parking (both in front of commercial and residential) and certain state/national parks, scenic overlooks etc. and residential driveways, parking pads, farm yards where vehicles park etc.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Nightmask »

Thinyser wrote:
GBAnnihilator wrote:
Thinyser wrote:
GBAnnihilator wrote:
Shark_Force wrote:if it cost us nothing to make solar panels, it would probably be a good idea. but it doesn't cost nothing. which is why we don't use solar power for everything.

that's why they're recycling garbage to make the roads so it reduces the price and gets rid of garbage.

Everybody who knows anything about solar power thinks this is a huge boondoggle. Its an EPIC failure of an idea, that has amassed a large number of dimwitted but good hearted backers.

If you through enough ideas at something it should work at some point. That's my philosophy. :lol:


Nope. Throwing a bunch of crap ideas at a wall and hoping some of them stick and turn into sparks of brilliance is not at all a reliable way to develop technology or any idea.

These people went to crowd funding because no legit investors would touch this with a 10' pole. Because pure and simple it's a horrible idea. Cost vs benefit it is a no go.

You could accomplish a similar effect with solar canopies OVER the roads. It would not take up much more space, plus it would actually shield the road from sun and rain and therefore make it last longer as there would be less damage from water seeping into cracks and freezing (which is the primary form of damage to roads).

Personally I think that all* surface level parking lots (and top floors of parking garages) should be required by law to have solar canopies (after a certain date say by the end of 2030) and make this electricity available first to charge electric vehicles in said lots and then to feed the grid what is leftover.

Yes ALL. Even city owned paid parking at the roadside, if it has a parking meter it has to have it. If its for a strip mall it has to have it, If its for a real mall it has to have it, big box stores, small business, airports, bus/train stations, hospitals, hotels, motels, call centers, etc. etc. etc! EVERY parking lot has to have it. The only exceptions would be non paid roadside parking (both in front of commercial and residential) and certain state/national parks, scenic overlooks etc. and residential driveways, parking pads, farm yards where vehicles park etc.


Would be nice to have all that mandated solar paneling, although you couldn't canopy the highways like that as sometimes they have to transport extremely large items that simply can't be transported any other way (certainly can't fly or use a train to transport a transformer that's wider than a highway for example).
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Thinyser »

Nightmask wrote:
Would be nice to have all that mandated solar paneling, although you couldn't canopy the highways like that as sometimes they have to transport extremely large items that simply can't be transported any other way (certainly can't fly or use a train to transport a transformer that's wider than a highway for example).
Depends on how BIG of a canopy you use. If it came up to the top lip of the overpass then it could easily accommodate manufactured homes and such height wise. Width wise you would span the entire road (all lanes in both directions including the median strip in most places) and extend it into the ditches on both sides so that there was still room to pull over to the shoulder and even off a bit without there being support poles in the way.
On and off ramps with their changes in elevation should probably be left clear so that you can see up and down to see what you are heading into. In hilly areas there might be places where you would not want a canopy since it would cut off your forward sight lines. Some areas would therefore either have to be VERY tall to accommodate sufficient sight lines for the speeds being traveled or have no canopy at all.

Parking lots however don't have high speed travel and are pretty flat and don't in general have huge cargo being shipped across them. So cover them over in solar cells for sure.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Giant2005 »

How do those solar panels handle hills and such? They shouldn't be able to slot together with a change of angle like they do on the flat.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Killer Cyborg »

The CS wouldn't need these things, and I don't think that the CS relies on too many high-tech roads in general.
The more expensive a road is, the easier it is for terrorist to nibble away at your finances by attacking unguarded section of road, kind of like Lawrence of Arabia did with the Hejaz railway.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Shark_Force »

"work well"?

no. work less badly.

no matter how you slice it, there are better places to put solar panels than inside a road. until those places are all filled, you're better off making roads out of road. so, for example, you'd be better off covering every inch of rooftop with solar panels. you'd be better off designating an area to fill with regular solar panels (especially for the CS, who have every reason to expect people to try and attack those solar panels and don't want to need a line of soldiers stretching across their entire road system to try and protect their investment). heck, you'd probably be better off building super-efficient electric flying drones that run on solar, come back down at night to unload what they've collected, then fly back up the next day, given rifts tech (the super-solar power source option for robots paired with an extremely lightweight aircraft designed to maximise solar exposure at higher altitudes would mean you'd have better collection rates and dramatically less energy required for operation than a combat robot, particularly since you're not trying to power lasers or constantly trying to have a radar running, plus the aircraft could fly above clouds on cloudy days, plus flying high should give a bit more time in the sun to begin with).
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Giant2005 »

Shark_Force wrote:"work well"?

no. work less badly.

no matter how you slice it, there are better places to put solar panels than inside a road. until those places are all filled, you're better off making roads out of road. so, for example, you'd be better off covering every inch of rooftop with solar panels. you'd be better off designating an area to fill with regular solar panels (especially for the CS, who have every reason to expect people to try and attack those solar panels and don't want to need a line of soldiers stretching across their entire road system to try and protect their investment). heck, you'd probably be better off building super-efficient electric flying drones that run on solar, come back down at night to unload what they've collected, then fly back up the next day, given rifts tech (the super-solar power source option for robots paired with an extremely lightweight aircraft designed to maximise solar exposure at higher altitudes would mean you'd have better collection rates and dramatically less energy required for operation than a combat robot, particularly since you're not trying to power lasers or constantly trying to have a radar running, plus the aircraft could fly above clouds on cloudy days, plus flying high should give a bit more time in the sun to begin with).

Roads do have practical sues that other locations for solar panels wouldn't. The variable lighting effects would have uses, as would the heating to ensure snowfall wasn't an issue for ground transport. Also electric engines are much cheaper than nuclear but on a solar road with mutual induction, they would have the same range.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by wyrmraker »

I can't quite recall where I saw it (I think it was either RMB or Conversion Book 1), but I remember one of the books mentioning that radio towers and electrical lines strung in the wilderness were unfeasible on Rifts Earth because of all the supernatural critters. Apparently they would randomly destroy these items. Pretty much anything not being actively defended would come under attack by MD animals.

To that end, I don't think the CS would put out roads that would need maintaining, or solar canopies over parking areas. At least not outside of an area without at least a substantial Deadboy garrison.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

eliakon wrote:
TheOttoman wrote:
wyrmraker wrote:I could see the CS using the Super Solar panels from the Robotics builds on buildings as a way to keep their nuclear material usage down.


You mean Hydrogen? That's kinda plentiful.

The mysterious 'nuclear fuel' in the ubiquitous nuclear reactors of the setting. If the reactor is breached it can pose a radiation hazard, so its radioactive....but it also is compact, common, and long lived. The best speculation is that its a radioactive isotope of Handwavium-259, Though the less common but more potent Plotonium-286 is also a leading contender. :bandit: :clown: :crane:

You sure it isn't a radio active isotope of Palladium? I figured it was unobtanium but that is probably the metal used on the things that fly that shouldn't. Maybe its Transylvanium... Cuz PB's science sucks maybe 69 cuz it sucks both ways or 68 because it sucks one way but it'll get ya back later.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Shark_Force »

constantly maintaining variable lighting will negate a significant portion of the benefits of the electricity generated. heating to melt snow is completely ridiculous and poorly thought-out; snow falls in the times of year and in the climates where solar energy is *least* valuable, and the melting would only be happening, *by definition*, during times where there is little sun and what little sun there is will be blocked by the snow that you're supposed to be melting with solar energy. furthermore, solar panels are *less* efficient at converting sunlight to heat energy on the surface of the road than the road itself.

electric engines don't *need* unlimited range. they need a far enough range to reach the next refueling station. anything beyond that is just paying for convenience. if 400 miles range (which is about 5 straight hours driving at faster-than-usual highway speeds) isn't enough to get where you're going, you should probably stop and take a rest break so your driver isn't getting fatigued (so you can get food, use a toilet, and recharge your vehicle). if you're swapping drivers, you can *still* just install an extra battery, and suddenly you've got an 800 mile range. 800 freaking miles. if that isn't getting to your destination fast enough, you should probably consider a flight option instead, where you can travel much faster than standard highway speeds, and in a straight line. at which point induction isn't an option anyways.

furthermore, just because the solar panels are producing electricity doesn't mean they're producing electricity ready-to-use. you're going to need to convert it to the correct voltage for an electric vehicle to use, which means yet another layer of complications you're adding to the road, and in any event, you're once again almost definitely negating any energy-generation benefits the road would offer. it is also likely that lighting would be put to better use if it was above the road in the first place, pointing down (assuming we were going to mount lights, which do you think would illuminate more of the road: a light built *inside* the road pointing up, or a light built above the road pointing down? this isn't a trick question, but just in case you're thinking of the wrong answer, remember that the light will form a cone shope, with the narrow end of the cone being the origin of the light source). street signs can likewise be placed on signs, like they are right now in places that need them. in fact, solar-powered street signs exist today. and are probably cheaper for not needing to able to withstand hundreds or thousands of vehicles a day to drive over them, and more efficient because, once again, the solar panels are mounted such that they can be angled towards the sun, and don't need translucent glass to be layered on top of them preventing some portion of sunlight from getting to them.

and it would *still* be less efficient than putting solar panels *beside* the road (where they don't have to contend with all kinds of challenges, meaning that those solar panels will be both less expensive and more effective) and having an attachment like a streetcar leading off to the power lines on those solar panels, assuming it was a reasonable expense to put solar panels and induction pads along the entire length of the road in the first place.

and honestly, while the super-solar engine in SB1 is expensive, i'm not convinced it would be more expensive to mount that on a select few ground transports than it would be to build a high-maintenance system across the entirety of the coalition states.

simply put, it's a cool idea, but it's not an efficient use of resources (either time or money). there are better ways to do everything they're doing, which will cost less money and be more effective.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by wyrmraker »

Bear in mind that the cost for a Super Solar system would be significantly less expensive for the CS to construct than for an adventurer to purchase and mount into a robot.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Thinyser »

TheOttoman wrote:
wyrmraker wrote:I can't quite recall where I saw it (I think it was either RMB or Conversion Book 1), but I remember one of the books mentioning that radio towers and electrical lines strung in the wilderness were unfeasible on Rifts Earth because of all the supernatural critters. Apparently they would randomly destroy these items. Pretty much anything not being actively defended would come under attack by MD animals.

To that end, I don't think the CS would put out roads that would need maintaining, or solar canopies over parking areas. At least not outside of an area without at least a substantial Deadboy garrison.



Yeah, that renders pretty much any radio wave broadcasts to about a couple of miles. You need radio antennas to operate.... now this can be solved by placing them in garrisons as you suggest
Amature radio (ham radio) opperates at frequencies that limit it to 20-60 miles (per wikipedia) while this isn't that far its way better than a couple of miles. That said the military has ULF which has a much longer wave and much better reach I don't want to look it up but assume its 10-20x more. So even at a fraction of that (say 100 miles to make sure the signal is strong and clear) you could have few relay stations and still reach a really long way.
A few hundred outposts with receiver/repeaters could blanket the old lower 48 very easily, and thats assuming a pretty small reach from each tower.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by dragonfett »

Thinyser wrote:
TheOttoman wrote:
wyrmraker wrote:I can't quite recall where I saw it (I think it was either RMB or Conversion Book 1), but I remember one of the books mentioning that radio towers and electrical lines strung in the wilderness were unfeasible on Rifts Earth because of all the supernatural critters. Apparently they would randomly destroy these items. Pretty much anything not being actively defended would come under attack by MD animals.

To that end, I don't think the CS would put out roads that would need maintaining, or solar canopies over parking areas. At least not outside of an area without at least a substantial Deadboy garrison.



Yeah, that renders pretty much any radio wave broadcasts to about a couple of miles. You need radio antennas to operate.... now this can be solved by placing them in garrisons as you suggest
Amature radio (ham radio) opperates at frequencies that limit it to 20-60 miles (per wikipedia) while this isn't that far its way better than a couple of miles. That said the military has ULF which has a much longer wave and much better reach I don't want to look it up but assume its 10-20x more. So even at a fraction of that (say 100 miles to make sure the signal is strong and clear) you could have few relay stations and still reach a really long way.
A few hundred outposts with receiver/repeaters could blanket the old lower 48 very easily, and thats assuming a pretty small reach from each tower.


ULF Radios need really BIIIIIIIIG antennas. Check out Project Sanguine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Sanguine
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by wyrmraker »

At any rate, the point I was trying to make was that in Rifts, unattended resources tend to get either destroyed, stolen, or just plain disappear (that only usually happens when something is inadvertantly built on a Fade Zone). High tech roads equipped with solar collection gear, whether the collection is built into the road itself or into a canopy, is going to get disappeared or destroyed in the middle of nowhere, even in the middle of CS territory.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by dragonfett »

TheOttoman wrote:
Thinyser wrote:
TheOttoman wrote:
wyrmraker wrote:I can't quite recall where I saw it (I think it was either RMB or Conversion Book 1), but I remember one of the books mentioning that radio towers and electrical lines strung in the wilderness were unfeasible on Rifts Earth because of all the supernatural critters. Apparently they would randomly destroy these items. Pretty much anything not being actively defended would come under attack by MD animals.

To that end, I don't think the CS would put out roads that would need maintaining, or solar canopies over parking areas. At least not outside of an area without at least a substantial Deadboy garrison.



Yeah, that renders pretty much any radio wave broadcasts to about a couple of miles. You need radio antennas to operate.... now this can be solved by placing them in garrisons as you suggest
Amature radio (ham radio) opperates at frequencies that limit it to 20-60 miles (per wikipedia) while this isn't that far its way better than a couple of miles. That said the military has ULF which has a much longer wave and much better reach I don't want to look it up but assume its 10-20x more. So even at a fraction of that (say 100 miles to make sure the signal is strong and clear) you could have few relay stations and still reach a really long way.
A few hundred outposts with receiver/repeaters could blanket the old lower 48 very easily, and thats assuming a pretty small reach from each tower.


All of these examples require antennas... but this is a separate topic all together.


Something I just thought of, the CS could easily have a fort or garrison every x amount of miles to set up a rudimentary radio relay network...
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Thinyser »

dragonfett wrote:
TheOttoman wrote:
Thinyser wrote:
TheOttoman wrote:
wyrmraker wrote:I can't quite recall where I saw it (I think it was either RMB or Conversion Book 1), but I remember one of the books mentioning that radio towers and electrical lines strung in the wilderness were unfeasible on Rifts Earth because of all the supernatural critters. Apparently they would randomly destroy these items. Pretty much anything not being actively defended would come under attack by MD animals.

To that end, I don't think the CS would put out roads that would need maintaining, or solar canopies over parking areas. At least not outside of an area without at least a substantial Deadboy garrison.



Yeah, that renders pretty much any radio wave broadcasts to about a couple of miles. You need radio antennas to operate.... now this can be solved by placing them in garrisons as you suggest
Amature radio (ham radio) opperates at frequencies that limit it to 20-60 miles (per wikipedia) while this isn't that far its way better than a couple of miles. That said the military has ULF which has a much longer wave and much better reach I don't want to look it up but assume its 10-20x more. So even at a fraction of that (say 100 miles to make sure the signal is strong and clear) you could have few relay stations and still reach a really long way.
A few hundred outposts with receiver/repeaters could blanket the old lower 48 very easily, and thats assuming a pretty small reach from each tower.


All of these examples require antennas... but this is a separate topic all together.


Something I just thought of, the CS could easily have a fort or garrison every x amount of miles to set up a rudimentary radio relay network...
OMG brilliant idea! I think you could probably blanket most of the lower 48 with a few hundred of those outposts. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Rifts is really not much weirder than that." ~~Killer Cyborg

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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by dragonfett »

I was actually thinking more along the lines of traditional Ham Radios. There is a significant chance that the CS may not have rediscovered ELF radio technology due to the fact that our communications are advancing so fast that we have no real need of it with the exception of communicating with subs, so just imagine what tech will be available by the Golden Age? Amateur Ham Radios will never die out though, and is a pretty simple technology.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Thinyser »

I'm sure the military has tech currently that would allow it to blanket the continent pretty easy They already use the majority of the spectrum anyhow. I was listing ULF not as what they would use per se but rather to illustrate their capabilities.

http://www.ntia.doc.gov/files/ntia/publ ... lochrt.pdf most of the spectrum is military or government
"We live in a world where people use severed plant genitals to express affection.
Rifts is really not much weirder than that." ~~Killer Cyborg

"If we let technical problems scare us away from doing anything, humanity would still be in the trees flinging poo at each other."~~Killer Cyborg

"Everything that breeds is a threat."~~Killer Cyborg
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