CS Solar Roadways

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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Thinyser »

Due to the ability to bounce or "skip" off of the ionosphere HF AKA shortwave radio is probably the most likely to be used. It already has a range of thousands of miles due to this skipping ability so few repeater stations would be needed but for redundancy and for the ability to directly communicate with other outposts (without having to rely on skip) the more the better.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Shark_Force »

even modes of transportation that benefit from a paved road would likely have been designed to operate on rough terrain.

i mean, i'm sure there's plenty of wheeled transportation, many or most of which *could* likely benefit from paved roads...

but unless it's designed exclusively for use in a handful of areas, you're much better off with something that can handle dirt roads well, as a bare minimum.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by taalismn »

wyrmraker wrote:I can't quite recall where I saw it (I think it was either RMB or Conversion Book 1), but I remember one of the books mentioning that radio towers and electrical lines strung in the wilderness were unfeasible on Rifts Earth because of all the supernatural critters. Apparently they would randomly destroy these items. Pretty much anything not being actively defended would come under attack by MD animals..



You'd have linear communities of Power Leeches along cross-country transmission lines...and any linemen trying to shoo them off would get walloped by those little bastards' energized giant form.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by GBAnnihilator »

Then the CS could put the solar roadways in the burbs and have the burbies work on them, instead of connecting the Megacities with them. The roads could also be used to root out hiding D-bees and find people that could become Operators.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Killer Cyborg »

The Burbites would probably steal them.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Thinyser »

Killer Cyborg wrote:The Burbites would probably steal them.

My first thought also...
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Shark_Force »

also, it would *still* be better and more efficient to put solar panels on rooftops or even flying in the air rather than in a road. a road is just not a good place for a solar panel. ever. no matter what.

if you wanted to make a road have displays and stuff like that, fine. i mean, it would be cheaper to just build signs *above* the road periodically (and they'd probably be much more visible in general), but sure, whatever, you could do that.

but solar panels benefit significantly from not being in a road. they need to be angled towards the sun for maximum effectiveness, which is generally not a good idea for a road. they need to not be covered for maximum effectiveness, which is generally not something you can guarantee in a road and still have it function as a road. they typically don't react well to being beaten with a 40-ton truck which, once again, is not something you can avoid in a road and still have it function as a road.

if burying solar panels in the ground was a good idea, they would be designed to be buried in the ground, not to be sitting on a pole in the air.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Gamer »

GBAnnihilator wrote:Then the CS could put the solar roadways in the burbs and have the burbies work on them, instead of connecting the Megacities with them. The roads could also be used to root out hiding D-bees and find people that could become Operators.


as KC pointed out and as I said from the very beginning they'd be stolen in a heart beat.
Solar panel efficiency is a key problem if you plan on using it as a road.
You plan on having robotic road washers coming by all the time every day to make sure they are kept as clean as possible? if not you lowered efficiency quite a bit (just tire tracks alone will lower the efficiency much less anything else) as the more opaque the glass becomes the less efficient the panel, your fingerprints on your sunglasses should give you a hint on how easy it is to mess it up.
You'd have to place a seriously packed 'bed' underneath the panels just to keep the solar panel system from shifting as the various traffic rides over it because it can't possibly be a tight packed system or else you could never ever replace the panels easily, there is going to be shifting in there with such heavy traffic in the CS and that is going to cause problems.

Solar panels laying vertical are wasting so much efficiency it's not just unfunny it's down right humiliating.
You will not find an intelligently done set up anywhere with panels laying flat on the ground.
Panels are angled to receive the most sunlight as possible and that changes from latitude to latitude and season to season and if you really want to get the most out of them they would be placed on trackers so they continually point towards the sun.

The best efficient way to use solar panels by the CS is to create solar farms in areas of land that is unsuitable for farming, not as some pathetic roadway that wastes resources and achieves only a minuscule fraction of what solar panels could do compared to the cost of building them, laying them and maintaining (includes replacing those stolen).
It is embarrassing that in the real world some supposedly educated engineer honestly thinks this is a workable and practical design when it fails basic electrical engineering.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by dragonfett »

The solar panels would need regular washing regardless just from dust and pollen from plants. Now imagine how much more cleaning they would need if you added the grime from roads (oil from leaking vehicles, mud from the ground which will eventually wash up on the road, etc.)
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Hotrod »

Solar roadways are a creative idea, and there may be a few circumstances in which they might even be a good or practical idea on a small scale. A small, remote island in the tropics might be a good candidate, where there's very little land, but lots of money to make the huge initial capital investment required.

The video in the OP is making some outlandish claims. Here's a good video that debunks most of them.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Giant2005 »

Keep in mind just how amazingly powerful solar technology has become in Rifts (currently peaking with the new NG solar weapons).
Even the miniscule solar panel attached to the NG-UV1 Mini-Laser can charge the equivalent power of an E-Clip in 80 hours and 40 minutes which granted sounds like a hell of a long time but not compared to the size of the panel attached to it.
The nuclear charger with the highest energy output that we have described is the Nuclear Charger in the Black Market book which is capable of charging 12 clips per hour which renders its output 968 times that of the mini laser but pound for pound, the difference isn't quite so extensive. The nuclear charger weighs in at 100 lbs and the mini-laser at 0.8 lbs. We don't know how much of the gun is gun and how much of it is solar panel but even taking the unreasonable stance that the entire thing is solar panel, when comparing output:mass, the nuclear option is only 7.744 times as efficient as the solar option. It would be reasonable to expect that at least half of the gun is gun (probably more-so) so that efficiency is probably closer to that of 3.872 times that of the solar option.

When solar panels are putting out numbers as absurdly high as those, the amount of sun coverage required to remain competitive would be negligible - those solar panels could get away with significantly reduced efficiency by being covered with all kinds of grime and still be an incredible asset. Although the same benefits would apply to those that would want to steal them, further increasing incentive and liklieness of unprotected panels being stolen. Solar Roadways would definitely have their uses if only to reduce the need of the more dangerous and shorter lifespanned nuclear options (and doing so without sacrificing quality of life issues such as the time required to refill electric engines) although the use would have to be limited to highly protected areas such as the Mega-Cities.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by guardiandashi »

Giant2005 wrote:Keep in mind just how amazingly powerful solar technology has become in Rifts (currently peaking with the new NG solar weapons).
Even the miniscule solar panel attached to the NG-UV1 Mini-Laser can charge the equivalent power of an E-Clip in 80 hours and 40 minutes which granted sounds like a hell of a long time but not compared to the size of the panel attached to it.
The nuclear charger with the highest energy output that we have described is the Nuclear Charger in the Black Market book which is capable of charging 12 clips per hour which renders its output 968 times that of the mini laser but pound for pound, the difference isn't quite so extensive. The nuclear charger weighs in at 100 lbs and the mini-laser at 0.8 lbs. We don't know how much of the gun is gun and how much of it is solar panel but even taking the unreasonable stance that the entire thing is solar panel, when comparing output:mass, the nuclear option is only 7.744 times as efficient as the solar option. It would be reasonable to expect that at least half of the gun is gun (probably more-so) so that efficiency is probably closer to that of 3.872 times that of the solar option.

When solar panels are putting out numbers as absurdly high as those, the amount of sun coverage required to remain competitive would be negligible - those solar panels could get away with significantly reduced efficiency by being covered with all kinds of grime and still be an incredible asset. Although the same benefits would apply to those that would want to steal them, further increasing incentive and liklieness of unprotected panels being stolen. Solar Roadways would definitely have their uses if only to reduce the need of the more dangerous and shorter lifespanned nuclear options (and doing so without sacrificing quality of life issues such as the time required to refill electric engines) although the use would have to be limited to highly protected areas such as the Mega-Cities.

after watching both videos... and thinking about it s bit I can legitimately say I can see some reasonable arguments for using at least part of the road right of ways for solar panels/arrays but making the SURFACE out of them as mentioned in the second video does seem rather stupid to me.

What makes a lot more sense to me would be to mount on or outside the guardrails, sound barriers, signs, sign posts, etc. would be solar array panels especially if they had high efficiency tracking gear to aim the panels at the optimal angle to the sun, this could potentially generate a lot more power per m[sup]2[/sup] and it doesn't matter as much if they are super clean (I mean it does matter, but they aren't going to be driven on, scratched by tires, chipped/shattered by studded snow tires/chains etc. its still not perfect, but its fairly good.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Gamer »

Giant2005 wrote:Keep in mind just how amazingly powerful solar technology has become in Rifts (currently peaking with the new NG solar weapons).
Even the miniscule solar panel attached to the NG-UV1 Mini-Laser can charge the equivalent power of an E-Clip in 80 hours and 40 minutes which granted sounds like a hell of a long time but not compared to the size of the panel attached to it.
The nuclear charger with the highest energy output that we have described is the Nuclear Charger in the Black Market book which is capable of charging 12 clips per hour which renders its output 968 times that of the mini laser but pound for pound, the difference isn't quite so extensive. The nuclear charger weighs in at 100 lbs and the mini-laser at 0.8 lbs. We don't know how much of the gun is gun and how much of it is solar panel but even taking the unreasonable stance that the entire thing is solar panel, when comparing output:mass, the nuclear option is only 7.744 times as efficient as the solar option. It would be reasonable to expect that at least half of the gun is gun (probably more-so) so that efficiency is probably closer to that of 3.872 times that of the solar option.

When solar panels are putting out numbers as absurdly high as those, the amount of sun coverage required to remain competitive would be negligible - those solar panels could get away with significantly reduced efficiency by being covered with all kinds of grime and still be an incredible asset. Although the same benefits would apply to those that would want to steal them, further increasing incentive and liklieness of unprotected panels being stolen. Solar Roadways would definitely have their uses if only to reduce the need of the more dangerous and shorter lifespanned nuclear options (and doing so without sacrificing quality of life issues such as the time required to refill electric engines) although the use would have to be limited to highly protected areas such as the Mega-Cities.


That's nice and here's a bit from the description in NG1
Diffused sunlight (overcast sky) will not charge the weapon.

unfortunately the authors don't seem to realize that overcast sky isn't the only time one gets diffusion and unless the panel is at it's proper angle and facing with the sun the light it will be getting is "diffused" and not 'direct'.
On a clear sunny day and a properly angled panel gets 85% direct and 15% diffused this changes as the sun moves across the sky.
A roadway panel would be running at a 60% diffusion most of the time and might see 50-55% direct for a very brief peak time and that all depends on latitude and time of year as well.
We go by the book and that road is getting nothing but diffused sunlight meaning it's not charging at all.

Another bit is shadows, panels really hate being in shadow and cells of a panel in partial to total shadow actually causes significant loss of power (about 50%) and if enough cells in a panel are in shadow not only does it completely fail to generate power it actually becomes a power drain to the ENTIRE system.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Shark_Force »

Giant2005 wrote:Keep in mind just how amazingly powerful solar technology has become in Rifts (currently peaking with the new NG solar weapons).
Even the miniscule solar panel attached to the NG-UV1 Mini-Laser can charge the equivalent power of an E-Clip in 80 hours and 40 minutes which granted sounds like a hell of a long time but not compared to the size of the panel attached to it.
The nuclear charger with the highest energy output that we have described is the Nuclear Charger in the Black Market book which is capable of charging 12 clips per hour which renders its output 968 times that of the mini laser but pound for pound, the difference isn't quite so extensive. The nuclear charger weighs in at 100 lbs and the mini-laser at 0.8 lbs. We don't know how much of the gun is gun and how much of it is solar panel but even taking the unreasonable stance that the entire thing is solar panel, when comparing output:mass, the nuclear option is only 7.744 times as efficient as the solar option. It would be reasonable to expect that at least half of the gun is gun (probably more-so) so that efficiency is probably closer to that of 3.872 times that of the solar option.

When solar panels are putting out numbers as absurdly high as those, the amount of sun coverage required to remain competitive would be negligible - those solar panels could get away with significantly reduced efficiency by being covered with all kinds of grime and still be an incredible asset. Although the same benefits would apply to those that would want to steal them, further increasing incentive and liklieness of unprotected panels being stolen. Solar Roadways would definitely have their uses if only to reduce the need of the more dangerous and shorter lifespanned nuclear options (and doing so without sacrificing quality of life issues such as the time required to refill electric engines) although the use would have to be limited to highly protected areas such as the Mega-Cities.


that's nice.

now imagine that, instead of wasting that efficiency, you just built the *exact same solar panels* somewhere that is not stupid. like putting them on a pole, for example, and allowing them to track towards the sun, and not have 40 ton trucks drive on them, and not have dirt and gravel ground into them by said trucks, and not having to use expensive tempered glass.

so now, without having to spend as much money, and using the same amount of resources, we are getting *more* energy. or we can get the same amount of energy, however much that is, while using less resources.

even if you actually have the technology to make a solar roadway, the simple fact is that inside of a road is never going to be a good place to put a solar panel. whether your solar panel is 15% or 45% efficient (for the record, I would speculate that most of the cost to converting to solar power for a robot is making the robot super-efficient, not the solar panel), it will always be better for generating electricity to expose it to more sunlight. and roads are simply not suited for exposing solar panels to sunlight. you can put solar panels *next to* the road and get more out of them. you can put them *above* the road and get more out of them. there is no benefit unless you are suffering from a complete lack of space to putting a solar panel *inside* the road. it's a terrible idea, regardless of how efficient your solar panels are.

now, what might make sense would be to put some sort of supertech version of piezoelectric crystals in the road. I mean, it's still a ridiculously expensive pipe dream, but at least you *want* piezoelectric crystals to be someplace where they'll get compressed, and you don't care about exposure to light, you might even be able to just mix them into regular asphalt rather than using some sort of specialty material, and you wouldn't need to add any pressure sensors, because they functionally *are* pressure sensors.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

TheOttoman wrote:
wyrmraker wrote:I can't quite recall where I saw it (I think it was either RMB or Conversion Book 1), but I remember one of the books mentioning that radio towers and electrical lines strung in the wilderness were unfeasible on Rifts Earth because of all the supernatural critters. Apparently they would randomly destroy these items. Pretty much anything not being actively defended would come under attack by MD animals.

To that end, I don't think the CS would put out roads that would need maintaining, or solar canopies over parking areas. At least not outside of an area without at least a substantial Deadboy garrison.



Yeah, that renders pretty much any radio wave broadcasts to about a couple of miles. You need radio antennas to operate.... now this can be solved by placing them in garrisons as you suggest

just use freaking ULF radio waves, they use the Earth as an attenuator, Elmendorf AFB and Ft. Richardson (JBLM), AK have an array pair. Not to be confused with the elephant cage which is not a transmitter.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

wyrmraker wrote:I can't quite recall where I saw it (I think it was either RMB or Conversion Book 1), but I remember one of the books mentioning that radio towers and electrical lines strung in the wilderness were unfeasible on Rifts Earth because of all the supernatural critters. Apparently they would randomly destroy these items. Pretty much anything not being actively defended would come under attack by MD animals.

To that end, I don't think the CS would put out roads that would need maintaining, or solar canopies over parking areas. At least not outside of an area without at least a substantial Deadboy garrison.


So why don't they burry everything? No need for radio if you can use fiber optics, and not many creatures burrow for travel. Plus if someone comes up with there are creatures that sense the electrical field... Fiber doesn't have one.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

i don't remember that in an official book.. do remember some fansite making that joke though.


Zer0 Kay wrote:
wyrmraker wrote:I can't quite recall where I saw it (I think it was either RMB or Conversion Book 1), but I remember one of the books mentioning that radio towers and electrical lines strung in the wilderness were unfeasible on Rifts Earth because of all the supernatural critters. Apparently they would randomly destroy these items. Pretty much anything not being actively defended would come under attack by MD animals.

To that end, I don't think the CS would put out roads that would need maintaining, or solar canopies over parking areas. At least not outside of an area without at least a substantial Deadboy garrison.


So why don't they burry everything? No need for radio if you can use fiber optics, and not many creatures burrow for travel. Plus if someone comes up with there are creatures that sense the electrical field... Fiber doesn't have one.



remember this is the same company that hasn't updated it's "modern day" computer descriptions since 1990 even for games printed and set in the 2010's, and which still hasn't added things like smart bombs to their military stuff despite them being around for 40+ years. run by a guy who still assembles the master copies for books by hand.

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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Shark_Force »

burying cables is not a particularly easy thing to conceal. it generally involves a lot of machinery. so, let us suppose for a moment you do that. one of your many enemies takes the time to note where your lines are, and distributes maps (assuming this is even necessary, considering you're probably going to be tearing up a swathe of wilderness, and a line of cleared-out trees is fairly noticeable). some idiot with a laser welder who has a reason to hate the CS now wanders along the hundreds of miles of wilderness territory, and uses their MD welder to vaporise the dirt and your cables. now, multiply that by hundreds, because your enemies can fairly trivially persuade someone that they have reason to hate you, and these people need not look any different from a regular human. they are not expensive to arm, they entail virtually no risk for the person sending them, and they have a fairly high chance of being successful. now, you need to send your repair crew out there (with protection of course), which may take hours, potentially dig up the area carefully (just because they lasered in doesn't mean the dirt didn't pile back in afterwards), repair the damage, and then head back to base. over. and over. and over. each time it happens, your communications go down for several hours at minimum, and the only way to protect against it is to constantly patrol every single inch of your border, which is an obscenely huge area for the record.

cables are a wonderful thing when you don't share a huge border with hundreds of thousands of people with reason to hate you and the resources to act on that hatred unless you constantly guard yourself against it. radio has one major advantage: you have to guard a point, not every point along a line.

when you consider that you can buy a very inexpensive (6,000 credits) radio that has a range of 300 miles in an urban environment (500 in wilderness) in the rifts world, that means that you can replace 300 mile long lines with two points that are 300 miles apart. even if you decide to be super-redundant and have these stations every 50 miles, and have multiple possible routes to retransmit (so that someone jamming has to jam over a ridiculously huge area in order to do anything more than be a nuisance), you are experiencing absolutely massive cost savings, and are guarding a substantially smaller area and securing a much smaller perimeter.

radios are dirt cheap and very advanced in the rifts setting, and the CS has a lot of enemies right next door to them. for their situation, using radio stations spread across their nation makes a whole lot of sense (especially if you figure they may already want to have a small military base every 50 miles or so anyways).
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by GBAnnihilator »

Shark_Force wrote:burying cables is not a particularly easy thing to conceal. it generally involves a lot of machinery. so, let us suppose for a moment you do that. one of your many enemies takes the time to note where your lines are, and distributes maps (assuming this is even necessary, considering you're probably going to be tearing up a swathe of wilderness, and a line of cleared-out trees is fairly noticeable). some idiot with a laser welder who has a reason to hate the CS now wanders along the hundreds of miles of wilderness territory, and uses their MD welder to vaporise the dirt and your cables. now, multiply that by hundreds, because your enemies can fairly trivially persuade someone that they have reason to hate you, and these people need not look any different from a regular human. they are not expensive to arm, they entail virtually no risk for the person sending them, and they have a fairly high chance of being successful. now, you need to send your repair crew out there (with protection of course), which may take hours, potentially dig up the area carefully (just because they lasered in doesn't mean the dirt didn't pile back in afterwards), repair the damage, and then head back to base. over. and over. and over. each time it happens, your communications go down for several hours at minimum, and the only way to protect against it is to constantly patrol every single inch of your border, which is an obscenely huge area for the record.

cables are a wonderful thing when you don't share a huge border with hundreds of thousands of people with reason to hate you and the resources to act on that hatred unless you constantly guard yourself against it. radio has one major advantage: you have to guard a point, not every point along a line.

when you consider that you can buy a very inexpensive (6,000 credits) radio that has a range of 300 miles in an urban environment (500 in wilderness) in the rifts world, that means that you can replace 300 mile long lines with two points that are 300 miles apart. even if you decide to be super-redundant and have these stations every 50 miles, and have multiple possible routes to retransmit (so that someone jamming has to jam over a ridiculously huge area in order to do anything more than be a nuisance), you are experiencing absolutely massive cost savings, and are guarding a substantially smaller area and securing a much smaller perimeter.

radios are dirt cheap and very advanced in the rifts setting, and the CS has a lot of enemies right next door to them. for their situation, using radio stations spread across their nation makes a whole lot of sense (especially if you figure they may already want to have a small military base every 50 miles or so anyways).


Radios are too restricted by range, and a jammer only needs to jam the one transmitting. Yes that might work for the military but I'm trying to connect the cities.
The CS could also make a giant MDC drill to connect the cities by putting the cables and whatever else too far for seismic sensors to detect. Sense the CS don't have an instant connection with each other, this solves it. If there's some type of demonic worm that I don't know of, just reinforce it with MDC materials.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Thinyser »

I kinda like the MDC drill idea. A laser based tunnel boring machine would be pretty cool.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Hotrod »

The CS has a few million reserve SAMAS, right? Just rig them up as electronic repeaters and spread 'em out to loyal CS homesteaders across their turf. Nuclear power will keep them going, and if any baddies try to wipe out the repeating station, they get a rail gun burst for their trouble (plus all the neighbors will come screaming in to assist).

Problem solved!
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by flatline »

Hotrod wrote:The CS has a few million reserve SAMAS, right? Just rig them up as electronic repeaters and spread 'em out to loyal CS homesteaders across their turf. Nuclear power will keep them going, and if any baddies try to wipe out the repeating station, they get a rail gun burst for their trouble (plus all the neighbors will come screaming in to assist).

Problem solved!


Once the baddies learn that there's a SAMAS on that there farm, they'll steal it. At $1M+ a pop, it's almost free money.

And a SAMAS is a horrible repeater if it's on the ground. Someone needs to be flying it to get any useful range out of its radio. Why do you think we put antennas on towers (answer: the higher it is, the more it extends radio line-of-sight).

Oh, and I don't remember who asked why they don't use ULF for everything, but the reason is that at low frequencies, the bit rate is pathetic. If you need to move any amount of data, it would take forever...

Relevant wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_signaling_rate

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Re: CS Solar Roadways

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Thinyser wrote:I kinda like the MDC drill idea. A laser based tunnel boring machine would be pretty cool.


Why stop at a drill?
With the laser, plasma and vibro technology available a tunnel boring machine would be ridiculously easy to build and would be vastly faster at creating the tunnels.
Mega shotcrete and precast megacrete sections means you could have a nice md tunnel built far quicker than anything we could ever do today be it a utilities systems network or an entire sub train system.

The same thing could be done for trenchers and you have a much faster built trench for pipe/cable laying.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Shark_Force »

GBAnnihilator wrote:Radios are too restricted by range, and a jammer only needs to jam the one transmitting. Yes that might work for the military but I'm trying to connect the cities.
The CS could also make a giant MDC drill to connect the cities by putting the cables and whatever else too far for seismic sensors to detect. Sense the CS don't have an instant connection with each other, this solves it. If there's some type of demonic worm that I don't know of, just reinforce it with MDC materials.


*our* radios are too restricted by range. rifts radios kick science square in the nuts and have a 300+ mile range for inexpensive commercial models.

and it's not so easy to jam the one transmitting when you've got a network of dozens of these things (which is still a lot cheaper to set up, maintain, and protect, because protecting and entire huge line of territory between every city is completely bonkers)

they have made enemies with many many earth warlocks. enough to fortify basically the entire kingdom of tolkeen with bunkers over the course of a decade or so, from what we can tell. your "secret" in the ground won't stay secret for long. and simply making a cable MDC isn't going to do squat unless you can get troops to any point along that line super fast.

now, dealing with jamming, on the other hand, is comparatively easy. good quality jamming equipment is very rare... only found on a handful of expensive military grade power armours and such. furthermore, you can't really conceal your location if you're jamming. which means that it's not going to take long to find out where your jamming station is, and send someone to deal with it. *and* this still presumes they have the ability to jam all of your transmitters... which, if you have a network of stations set up is going to mean that you need to jam probably 15-20+ stations at a time to do anything more than just be annoying. or jam the origin or end point, which if they're of strategic significance will have regular patrols and such already.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

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Shark_Force wrote:[
now, dealing with jamming, on the other hand, is comparatively easy. good quality jamming equipment is very rare... only found on a handful of expensive military grade power armours and such. furthermore, you can't really conceal your location if you're jamming. which means that it's not going to take long to find out where your jamming station is, and send someone to deal with it. *and* this still presumes they have the ability to jam all of your transmitters... which, if you have a network of stations set up is going to mean that you need to jam probably 15-20+ stations at a time to do anything more than just be annoying. or jam the origin or end point, which if they're of strategic significance will have regular patrols and such already.


Your making radio jamming sound far more complicated than it really is.
The difference between interference and jamming is intent is it an accident or intentional.
The hardest part is interception and reading sensitive military transmissions, not jamming it.
You don't need "good quality jamming gear" you need lots of broadcast power and the radio frequency range that's it.
The Coalition is already going to be monitoring frequencies and then jamming them to keep unauthorized broadcasts out of its territory, one can't oppress it's own people if they are getting transmissions from the outside.
Imagine how popular an audio version of Erin Tarns books would be over the radio to the masses.
Something you didn't see in the books but most likely happened in the Tolkeen war is radiowave warfare.
The CS and Tolkeen broadcasting their propaganda back and forth with victories and losses exaggerated by both sides.
Instead of WW2's 'Tokoyo Rose' you'd end up with 'Tolkeen Rose'.

The more complicated part is with the military hardware that can frequency hop and It's not that complicated to get a hold of military hardware in rifts to jam it.
The CS samas radio that can transmit can also jam.
The CS military vehicle radio that can transmit, can also jam.
The CS body armor radio that can transmit can also jam.
How much they can jam depends on broadcast power.


GBAnnihilator wrote:Radios are too restricted by range, and a jammer only needs to jam the one transmitting. Yes that might work for the military but I'm trying to connect the cities.

One of many types of rebroadcast systems
http://vhf-military-tactical-radio.at-c ... ation.html
A simplified system for civilian traffic can be placed in outlying towns, trading posts or what ever for the broadcasting of CS propaganda to it's people, while larger rebroadcast stations can be placed in outposts and forts.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by flatline »

Gamer, as you've said, jamming a particular frequency isn't hard. But modern radios (and presumably future radios) transmit across multiple frequencies at the same time. This technique is commonly called "spread spectrum". Since error correction can be built into the transmission protocol, you can theoretically create a scenario where it would take an infinite amount of energy to meaningfully jam the transmission.

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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Shark_Force »

jamming, by nature, is not hard to trace. quite the opposite.

if someone is sneaking into a CS base to jam their radio, they are shortly going to have to deal with the fact that the CS vastly outnumbers them.

frankly, i halfway expect the CS almost *welcomes* jamming attempts. letting them know where you are is probably one of the worst decisions you could ever make.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Gamer »

flatline wrote:Gamer, as you've said, jamming a particular frequency isn't hard. But modern radios (and presumably future radios) transmit across multiple frequencies at the same time. This technique is commonly called "spread spectrum". Since error correction can be built into the transmission protocol, you can theoretically create a scenario where it would take an infinite amount of energy to meaningfully jam the transmission.

--flatline


I'm aware of TRANSEC, you also should be aware that you only need the TSK, whoopty doo big deal.
Can be done, has been done, will continue to be done.
Again the difference between jamming and interference is intent.
With all the captured CS gear running around jamming said gear isn't difficult.

With the various psionic and magic powers running around you can toss radio security right out the window as you understand it now.
The CS has had to deal with Transmission security (TRANSEC) for years that we can only pretend to.
That lovely little L3 air elemental spell frequency jamming for instance whihc is a component to quite a few TW items.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

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Shark_Force wrote:jamming, by nature, is not hard to trace. quite the opposite.

if someone is sneaking into a CS base to jam their radio, they are shortly going to have to deal with the fact that the CS vastly outnumbers them.

frankly, i halfway expect the CS almost *welcomes* jamming attempts. letting them know where you are is probably one of the worst decisions you could ever make.


You go right on with that, I welcome your CS reinforcements and in fact plan for it way in advance.
I can set up no end of rebroadcast jamming stations all over the place sending them on wild goose chases just using technology.

This isn't the 20/21st century, this is Rifts.
I can make the CS reinforcements loose their ever loving minds trying to find all the various transmissions or i can send them into a trap when i feel like it and use a single technowizard to do it.
There's more to doing things in rifts than trying to cram our understanding of technology into what could be accomplished with tech and the 'other powers' in Rifts.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Shark_Force »

you're not going to set up jamming stations all across the heart of CS territory. not for long, anyways.

every last one of those "wild goose chases" is costing you resources. your plan only remotely makes sense if the CS doesn't have any concept whatsoever of securing their territory.

especially now that the CS has a legitimate air force, and pretty much nobody else on the continent has anything even close; you aren't going to outrun them, you sure as hang can't afford to stand and fight them, and it is impossible to hide from them while broadcasting your position to everything in a huge radius.

furthermore, your massive coordinated jamming assault requires exactly the sort of enemy the CS *doesn't* have. the enemies of the CS aren't really a coordinated army, they're more like hundreds of small mercenary groups, each of which have their own reasons for hating the CS and their own preferred tactics. the plan to just bury a cable somewhere and then forget about it because you can't plausibly defend it can be attacked by a small group of adventurers/mercenaries/whatever; the plan to blanket the entire CS in radio jamming stations requires a huge group with extremely good coordination, a large bankroll, huge amounts of manpower, and perfect secrecy.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by guardiandashi »

Shark_Force wrote:jamming, by nature, is not hard to trace. quite the opposite.

if someone is sneaking into a CS base to jam their radio, they are shortly going to have to deal with the fact that the CS vastly outnumbers them.

frankly, i halfway expect the CS almost *welcomes* jamming attempts. letting them know where you are is probably one of the worst decisions you could ever make.

actually if I was the coalition (or other organized military), idiots trying to jam me would be "fun" I would have contingency plans built around it. and have missile carrying units switch to mode 14 (HARM) and fire a salvo for effect after cutting all emissions themselves. Homing Anti-Radiation Missiles IE your jammers just turned into homing beacons for my missile salvos.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Gamer »

guardiandashi wrote:
Shark_Force wrote:jamming, by nature, is not hard to trace. quite the opposite.

if someone is sneaking into a CS base to jam their radio, they are shortly going to have to deal with the fact that the CS vastly outnumbers them.

frankly, i halfway expect the CS almost *welcomes* jamming attempts. letting them know where you are is probably one of the worst decisions you could ever make.

actually if I was the coalition (or other organized military), idiots trying to jam me would be "fun" I would have contingency plans built around it. and have missile carrying units switch to mode 14 (HARM) and fire a salvo for effect after cutting all emissions themselves. Homing Anti-Radiation Missiles IE your jammers just turned into homing beacons for my missile salvos.

And hope the 'jammer' is actually still active and not on a time switch that allows various semi directional jammers at various distances go from active to inactive at various times causing a "fun time" for not only the missiles but those trying to keep a read on the jamming track as the jammers seemingly jump from place to place around the jam target area.
Causing more resources to be used and less resources to be available at the 'real' objective.

begin sarcasm (sarcasm not directed at guardiandashi's post)
Not like a small system like this has ever been done before, oh no, you need
Shark_Force wrote:a huge group with extremely good coordination, a large bankroll, huge amounts of manpower, and perfect secrecy.

Nah it's not like the U.S. Marines created a special operations unit lets call them the Radio Reconnaissance Teams part of whose mission would be to not only counter this threat that's never been done before in history to require a counter force but to do that very threat in the heart of enemy territory. :roll:

Only this system would not be on the overly exaggerated scale of
Shark_Force wrote:jamming stations all across the heart of CS territory

It's not like there is such thing as unconventional warfare, nah you can't possibly do a lot of disruption with less because nobody ever thinks outside the box.
Nah it's never been done ever in history. :roll: :lol: /end sarcasm

Seriously if you can't think outside the box and understand unconventional warfare don't expect to win a fight against it especially given the amount of 'other abilities' available in Rifts.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Hotrod »

flatline wrote:
Hotrod wrote:The CS has a few million reserve SAMAS, right? Just rig them up as electronic repeaters and spread 'em out to loyal CS homesteaders across their turf. Nuclear power will keep them going, and if any baddies try to wipe out the repeating station, they get a rail gun burst for their trouble (plus all the neighbors will come screaming in to assist).

Problem solved!


Once the baddies learn that there's a SAMAS on that there farm, they'll steal it. At $1M+ a pop, it's almost free money.

And a SAMAS is a horrible repeater if it's on the ground. Someone needs to be flying it to get any useful range out of its radio. Why do you think we put antennas on towers (answer: the higher it is, the more it extends radio line-of-sight).

--flatline


All power armor have a long-range directional communication system with a range of 500 miles, and a short range radio system with a range of 10 miles.

That said, I don't see anything about an anti-theft device for any power armor (!!), so I guess that an unattended suit of any kind is a ripe prospect for theft. Oh well. There's always Skelebots, with a range of 10 miles. If the CS has a couple million or so of those, just have a pair guard each SAMAS.

Problem (re)solved!
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Shark_Force »

Gamer wrote:
guardiandashi wrote:
Shark_Force wrote:jamming, by nature, is not hard to trace. quite the opposite.

if someone is sneaking into a CS base to jam their radio, they are shortly going to have to deal with the fact that the CS vastly outnumbers them.

frankly, i halfway expect the CS almost *welcomes* jamming attempts. letting them know where you are is probably one of the worst decisions you could ever make.

actually if I was the coalition (or other organized military), idiots trying to jam me would be "fun" I would have contingency plans built around it. and have missile carrying units switch to mode 14 (HARM) and fire a salvo for effect after cutting all emissions themselves. Homing Anti-Radiation Missiles IE your jammers just turned into homing beacons for my missile salvos.

And hope the 'jammer' is actually still active and not on a time switch that allows various semi directional jammers at various distances go from active to inactive at various times causing a "fun time" for not only the missiles but those trying to keep a read on the jamming track as the jammers seemingly jump from place to place around the jam target area.
Causing more resources to be used and less resources to be available at the 'real' objective.

begin sarcasm (sarcasm not directed at guardiandashi's post)
Not like a small system like this has ever been done before, oh no, you need
Shark_Force wrote:a huge group with extremely good coordination, a large bankroll, huge amounts of manpower, and perfect secrecy.

Nah it's not like the U.S. Marines created a special operations unit lets call them the Radio Reconnaissance Teams part of whose mission would be to not only counter this threat that's never been done before in history to require a counter force but to do that very threat in the heart of enemy territory. :roll:

Only this system would not be on the overly exaggerated scale of
Shark_Force wrote:jamming stations all across the heart of CS territory

It's not like there is such thing as unconventional warfare, nah you can't possibly do a lot of disruption with less because nobody ever thinks outside the box.
Nah it's never been done ever in history. :roll: :lol: /end sarcasm

Seriously if you can't think outside the box and understand unconventional warfare don't expect to win a fight against it especially given the amount of 'other abilities' available in Rifts.


setting up multiple stations and multiple routes is not expensive. you either shut down the whole system, or they just go around you.

and for the record, i wouldn't describe the US marines as being a small disorganized association of small units of soldiers, each with their own goals and preferred methods of operation, with no money behind them.

you literally picked the most well-funded army in the world, which has a training program so good that many other armies in the world get their training from it, and which heavily emphasizes co-ordination and has a very clear, structured organization as your showcase of how a bunch of small disorganized groups which in many cases don't even know each other, or which may even be opposed to each other, could organize large complicated coordinated strikes against someone?

i think you have this scenario backwards... the CS are the ones with the large trained standing army. *they* are the ones who will have those specialized marine squads. not their enemies.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Nightmask »

While things have gotten off-topic a small note, if you were going to use SAMAS as radio repeaters (an expensive proposition instead of building smaller units with a dedicated purpose) you don't just stand them around you install an AI in them like the skelebots have so that they can manage basic functions like moving to compensate for communication problems or to flee from individuals that approach too close or try to destroy them.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by wyrmraker »

As for being on topic, I agree that Solar Roads aren't really viable, for various reasons. I still stand by my comment that individual CS communities would probably make use of Super Solar collectors on their buildings. I think that would be the most viable method of using large-scale solar power, given the lack of precision physics in Rifts.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by flatline »

guardiandashi wrote:actually if I was the coalition (or other organized military), idiots trying to jam me would be "fun" I would have contingency plans built around it. and have missile carrying units switch to mode 14 (HARM) and fire a salvo for effect after cutting all emissions themselves. Homing Anti-Radiation Missiles IE your jammers just turned into homing beacons for my missile salvos.


Any predictable response can be gamed. For instance...

...The screamer was a very inelegant device, but that didn't stop if from being effective. Every fraction of a second, it would sample the airwaves and identify which frequencies were currently above the ambient noise level and then it would transmit all sorts of unholy garbage over those frequencies at power levels that were just obscene basically making it impossible for anyone to meaningfully transmit anything in the area. He didn't remember what the salesman said the duty cycle was, but it didn't matter. More sophisticated models didn't need to stop transmitting in order to sample the ambient, but they cost more and his experience was that it didn't really gain him anything.

He was hovering 2 miles above the ground letting the screamer do its thing, waiting for the inevitable response. And there it was, five missiles came over the horizon heading straight for him. He deactivated the screamer. Suddenly, the most interesting "radiation sources" within the missiles' line of sight was the platoon of grunts his friends had pinned down as they frantically tried to call in reinforcements...

--flatline
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by GBAnnihilator »

Shark_Force wrote:
GBAnnihilator wrote:Radios are too restricted by range, and a jammer only needs to jam the one transmitting. Yes that might work for the military but I'm trying to connect the cities.
The CS could also make a giant MDC drill to connect the cities by putting the cables and whatever else too far for seismic sensors to detect. Sense the CS don't have an instant connection with each other, this solves it. If there's some type of demonic worm that I don't know of, just reinforce it with MDC materials.


*our* radios are too restricted by range. rifts radios kick science square in the nuts and have a 300+ mile range for inexpensive commercial models.

and it's not so easy to jam the one transmitting when you've got a network of dozens of these things (which is still a lot cheaper to set up, maintain, and protect, because protecting and entire huge line of territory between every city is completely bonkers)

they have made enemies with many many earth warlocks. enough to fortify basically the entire kingdom of tolkeen with bunkers over the course of a decade or so, from what we can tell. your "secret" in the ground won't stay secret for long. and simply making a cable MDC isn't going to do squat unless you can get troops to any point along that line super fast.

now, dealing with jamming, on the other hand, is comparatively easy. good quality jamming equipment is very rare... only found on a handful of expensive military grade power armours and such. furthermore, you can't really conceal your location if you're jamming. which means that it's not going to take long to find out where your jamming station is, and send someone to deal with it. *and* this still presumes they have the ability to jam all of your transmitters... which, if you have a network of stations set up is going to mean that you need to jam probably 15-20+ stations at a time to do anything more than just be annoying. or jam the origin or end point, which if they're of strategic significance will have regular patrols and such already.

I'm not doubting the radio idea, I'm trying to get instant phone and other communication relayed almost instantly between the cities so nothing can be intercepted or jammed.
The ability for the cable to be accessed quickly would be a Bullet Train which wouldn't be hard for the CS, its basic science.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by guardiandashi »

flatline wrote:
guardiandashi wrote:actually if I was the coalition (or other organized military), idiots trying to jam me would be "fun" I would have contingency plans built around it. and have missile carrying units switch to mode 14 (HARM) and fire a salvo for effect after cutting all emissions themselves. Homing Anti-Radiation Missiles IE your jammers just turned into homing beacons for my missile salvos.


Any predictable response can be gamed. For instance...

...The screamer was a very inelegant device, but that didn't stop if from being effective. Every fraction of a second, it would sample the airwaves and identify which frequencies were currently above the ambient noise level and then it would transmit all sorts of unholy garbage over those frequencies at power levels that were just obscene basically making it impossible for anyone to meaningfully transmit anything in the area. He didn't remember what the salesman said the duty cycle was, but it didn't matter. More sophisticated models didn't need to stop transmitting in order to sample the ambient, but they cost more and his experience was that it didn't really gain him anything.

He was hovering 2 miles above the ground letting the screamer do its thing, waiting for the inevitable response. And there it was, five missiles came over the horizon heading straight for him. He deactivated the screamer. Suddenly, the most interesting "radiation sources" within the missiles' line of sight was the platoon of grunts his friends had pinned down as they frantically tried to call in reinforcements...

--flatline

the only problem, is they have AR(Anti-Radiation) missiles today that pick up on a "screamer" target, and then go to its coordinates even if it goes "dark" its one of the reasons that most SAM sites now have a minimum of 3 remote radar emplacements set up a ways away from the launchers. so a "smart" missile would NOT be going after the coalition troops on the ground (who also would have valid IFF codes to "wave off the friendly missiles")
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by flatline »

guardiandashi wrote:
flatline wrote:
guardiandashi wrote:actually if I was the coalition (or other organized military), idiots trying to jam me would be "fun" I would have contingency plans built around it. and have missile carrying units switch to mode 14 (HARM) and fire a salvo for effect after cutting all emissions themselves. Homing Anti-Radiation Missiles IE your jammers just turned into homing beacons for my missile salvos.


Any predictable response can be gamed. For instance...

...The screamer was a very inelegant device, but that didn't stop if from being effective. Every fraction of a second, it would sample the airwaves and identify which frequencies were currently above the ambient noise level and then it would transmit all sorts of unholy garbage over those frequencies at power levels that were just obscene basically making it impossible for anyone to meaningfully transmit anything in the area. He didn't remember what the salesman said the duty cycle was, but it didn't matter. More sophisticated models didn't need to stop transmitting in order to sample the ambient, but they cost more and his experience was that it didn't really gain him anything.

He was hovering 2 miles above the ground letting the screamer do its thing, waiting for the inevitable response. And there it was, five missiles came over the horizon heading straight for him. He deactivated the screamer. Suddenly, the most interesting "radiation sources" within the missiles' line of sight was the platoon of grunts his friends had pinned down as they frantically tried to call in reinforcements...

--flatline

the only problem, is they have AR(Anti-Radiation) missiles today that pick up on a "screamer" target, and then go to its coordinates even if it goes "dark" its one of the reasons that most SAM sites now have a minimum of 3 remote radar emplacements set up a ways away from the launchers. so a "smart" missile would NOT be going after the coalition troops on the ground (who also would have valid IFF codes to "wave off the friendly missiles")


Then rather than deactivating the screamer, drop it into the "target" area. IFF codes are useless if the screamer is obliterating your ability to transmit IFF codes.

Edit: Or you could have the screamer repeat what's already being transmitted, just out of phase with the original transmission and multiple times. Then the screamer signal will have the IFF codes in it, but the spectrum is still getting blacked out.

--flatline
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Shark_Force »

GBAnnihilator wrote:
Shark_Force wrote:
GBAnnihilator wrote:Radios are too restricted by range, and a jammer only needs to jam the one transmitting. Yes that might work for the military but I'm trying to connect the cities.
The CS could also make a giant MDC drill to connect the cities by putting the cables and whatever else too far for seismic sensors to detect. Sense the CS don't have an instant connection with each other, this solves it. If there's some type of demonic worm that I don't know of, just reinforce it with MDC materials.


*our* radios are too restricted by range. rifts radios kick science square in the nuts and have a 300+ mile range for inexpensive commercial models.

and it's not so easy to jam the one transmitting when you've got a network of dozens of these things (which is still a lot cheaper to set up, maintain, and protect, because protecting and entire huge line of territory between every city is completely bonkers)

they have made enemies with many many earth warlocks. enough to fortify basically the entire kingdom of tolkeen with bunkers over the course of a decade or so, from what we can tell. your "secret" in the ground won't stay secret for long. and simply making a cable MDC isn't going to do squat unless you can get troops to any point along that line super fast.

now, dealing with jamming, on the other hand, is comparatively easy. good quality jamming equipment is very rare... only found on a handful of expensive military grade power armours and such. furthermore, you can't really conceal your location if you're jamming. which means that it's not going to take long to find out where your jamming station is, and send someone to deal with it. *and* this still presumes they have the ability to jam all of your transmitters... which, if you have a network of stations set up is going to mean that you need to jam probably 15-20+ stations at a time to do anything more than just be annoying. or jam the origin or end point, which if they're of strategic significance will have regular patrols and such already.

I'm not doubting the radio idea, I'm trying to get instant phone and other communication relayed almost instantly between the cities so nothing can be intercepted or jammed.
The ability for the cable to be accessed quickly would be a Bullet Train which wouldn't be hard for the CS, its basic science.


what makes you think you couldn't transmit that information by radio?

particularly bearing in mind that the CS doesn't need a telephone network that can actually handle everyone in the city communicating to other cities. the average person in rifts doesn't need to travel, and so won't know people very far away.

so really, it's going to be almost entirely military and government needs that drive any intercity communications system.

also, i'm not remotely convinced a bullet train miles underground is a simple proposition, and if anything it's even more of a nightmare for someone who has earth warlock enemies i would suspect... though at least you've significantly reduced the number of threats to the system to mostly only those with access to earth elemental magic (which is mostly earth warlocks, a few native american shamans who afaict don't really care about the CS at all, and people who can summon elementals... which is a lot smaller group than "people who own or could be given a laser welder").
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by The Artist Formerly »

I actually know one of the guys in that project, and have seen some of the tech tested. As everything in Rifts runs on "because shut up" this seems unneeded.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by flatline »

The Artist Formerly wrote:As everything in Rifts runs on "because shut up" this seems unneeded.


I love that choice of words.

I started a project over a decade ago to rationalize the setting (and rules, to some extent), but my notes disappeared in one of the moves since then. Maybe some day I'll do it again.

--flatline
I don't care about canon answers. I'm interested in good, well-reasoned answers and, perhaps, a short discussion of how that answer is supported or contradicted by canon.

If I don't provide a book and page number, then don't assume that I'm describing canon. I'll tell you if I'm describing canon.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by The Artist Formerly »

flatline wrote:
The Artist Formerly wrote:As everything in Rifts runs on "because shut up" this seems unneeded.


I love that choice of words.

I started a project over a decade ago to rationalize the setting (and rules, to some extent), but my notes disappeared in one of the moves since then. Maybe some day I'll do it again.

--flatline


All things are possible through "because shut up". How does a laser bow work with a pull of a bow string to generate MDC level laser blasts? Because shut up! Why do fusion generators have radioactive fission materials in them? Because shut up! How is it you can generate a laser beam in to a blade like object and slash stuff with it? Because shut up!

Because shut up! Making everything in life better. :ok:
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Nightmask »

The Artist Formerly wrote:
flatline wrote:
The Artist Formerly wrote:As everything in Rifts runs on "because shut up" this seems unneeded.


I love that choice of words.

I started a project over a decade ago to rationalize the setting (and rules, to some extent), but my notes disappeared in one of the moves since then. Maybe some day I'll do it again.

--flatline


All things are possible through "because shut up". How does a laser bow work with a pull of a bow string to generate MDC level laser blasts? Because shut up! Why do fusion generators have radioactive fission materials in them? Because shut up! How is it you can generate a laser beam in to a blade like object and slash stuff with it? Because shut up!

Because shut up! Making everything in life better. :ok:


What mislead you into thinking they have fusion reactors or that they're run on fissionable materials? There are no fusion reactors/generators on Rifts Earth, everything runs on fission-based nuclear cores (that use nuclear power) not fusion. While some other settings have fusion reactors for power armor and vehicles like Heroes Unlimited Rifts isn't one of them, any you might see aren't native to Rifts Earth (same with anti-matter generators, no one native to Rifts Earth can make them, about the only ones currently that have them are the Megaversal legion and one lone alien cyborg in I think the Robot hunting/destroying mercenary group from Rifts: Mercenaries).
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It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by eliakon »

Nightmask wrote:
The Artist Formerly wrote:
flatline wrote:
The Artist Formerly wrote:As everything in Rifts runs on "because shut up" this seems unneeded.


I love that choice of words.

I started a project over a decade ago to rationalize the setting (and rules, to some extent), but my notes disappeared in one of the moves since then. Maybe some day I'll do it again.

--flatline


All things are possible through "because shut up". How does a laser bow work with a pull of a bow string to generate MDC level laser blasts? Because shut up! Why do fusion generators have radioactive fission materials in them? Because shut up! How is it you can generate a laser beam in to a blade like object and slash stuff with it? Because shut up!

Because shut up! Making everything in life better. :ok:


What mislead you into thinking they have fusion reactors or that they're run on fissionable materials? There are no fusion reactors/generators on Rifts Earth, everything runs on fission-based nuclear cores (that use nuclear power) not fusion. While some other settings have fusion reactors for power armor and vehicles like Heroes Unlimited Rifts isn't one of them, any you might see aren't native to Rifts Earth (same with anti-matter generators, no one native to Rifts Earth can make them, about the only ones currently that have them are the Megaversal legion and one lone alien cyborg in I think the Robot hunting/destroying mercenary group from Rifts: Mercenaries).

To be fair there is at least one fusion power plant in game. Merc Ops has a fusion power plant for one of its devices (The E-Clip charger I believe) As for all the other 'Nuclear' power plants things are....vague (at best)
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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Daniel Stoker »

The Artist Formerly wrote:All things are possible through "because shut up". How does a laser bow work with a pull of a bow string to generate MDC level laser blasts? Because shut up! Why do fusion generators have radioactive fission materials in them? Because shut up! How is it you can generate a laser beam in to a blade like object and slash stuff with it? Because shut up!

Because shut up! Making everything in life better. :ok:


They fixed the Laser bow ... it has an eclip now. :p


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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by eliakon »

Daniel Stoker wrote:
The Artist Formerly wrote:All things are possible through "because shut up". How does a laser bow work with a pull of a bow string to generate MDC level laser blasts? Because shut up! Why do fusion generators have radioactive fission materials in them? Because shut up! How is it you can generate a laser beam in to a blade like object and slash stuff with it? Because shut up!

Because shut up! Making everything in life better. :ok:


They fixed the Laser bow ... it has an eclip now. :p


Daniel Stoker

It always did. Its just the 'back up' system that lets you power it by pulling the string that makes people wince. (unless they have gone and removed that)
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by Daniel Stoker »

I could SWEAR they changed it so that the eclip wasn't the backup system.


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Re: CS Solar Roadways

Unread post by flatline »

I house ruled it that drawing the bow provided enough energy for SD shots but MD shots required an e-clip.

Not that it mattered. I don't think anyone was ever interested in it.

--flatline
I don't care about canon answers. I'm interested in good, well-reasoned answers and, perhaps, a short discussion of how that answer is supported or contradicted by canon.

If I don't provide a book and page number, then don't assume that I'm describing canon. I'll tell you if I'm describing canon.
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