Interesting article when it comes to P.S. levels

[Eclipse]

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... anzee.html

"But the "five times" figure was refuted 20 years after Bauman's experiments. In 1943, Glen Finch of the Yale primate laboratory rigged an apparatus to test the arm strength of eight captive chimpanzees. An adult male chimp, he found, pulled about the same weight as an adult man. Once he'd corrected the measurement for their smaller body sizes, chimpanzees did turn out to be stronger than humans—but not by a factor of five or anything close to it.

Repeated tests in the 1960s confirmed this basic picture. A chimpanzee had, pound for pound, as much as twice the strength of a human when it came to pulling weights. The apes beat us in leg strength, too, despite our reliance on our legs for locomotion.

..

How did we get to be the weaklings of the primate order? Our overall body architecture makes a difference: Even though chimpanzees weigh less than humans, more of their mass is concentrated in their powerful arms. But a more important factor seems to be the structure of the muscles themselves."

No particular question or point, I just found it interesting to see this assumption about the great apes that they had incredible superhuman strength relative to us, is greatly exaggerated.

[Killer Cyborg]

Well, we don't spend as much time swinging around from our arms, for one thing.

[Tor]

The leg thing I find suprising though. I guess perhaps our bulky legs are made more for endurance running?

Then again, I have to wonder about the sample source. Who were the humans whose leg strength was being compared? Huge difference if we're comparing sprinters or power-squatters versus sedentary chair-people.

[Thinyser]

The leg thing I find surprising though. I guess perhaps our bulky legs are made more for endurance running?

Then again, I have to wonder about the sample source. Who were the humans whose leg strength was being compared? Huge difference if we're comparing sprinters or power-squatters versus sedentary chair-people.

Yes to both. Humans are built for endurance running. In fact there is a form of hunting in Africa/Mexico where they run the quarry to total exhaustion/heatstroke, its called Persistence Hunting.

Yes if they tested the primates against the lab techs that would easily explain it.

[Alrik Vas]

The endurance of humanity makes us the hunters that won evolution. Physical power isn't everything, obviously.

[jaymz]

That is interesting. In Palladium that means the following

A Chimp that can actually lift say 200lbs, would only need a PS of 5 where as a human would need a PS of 10.

[flatline]

That is interesting. In Palladium that means the following

A Chimp that can actually lift say 200lbs, would only need a PS of 5 where as a human would need a PS of 10.

How do you figure?

--flatline

[jaymz]

If they are the equivalent of twice as strong as a human then would that not equate to their being able to lift double of what a human could lift?

PS 5 x 20 for lift x 2 for a chimp is 200lbs
PS 10 x 20 for lift for a human is 200lbs.

For simplicity you could just say they have the human ps equivalent of 10 though.

[rat_bastard]

The endurance of humanity makes us the hunters that won evolution. Physical power isn't everything, obviously.

Nope, its the tool use and verbal communication.

[sHaka]

Actually, it's a combination of many factors. After all, other human species had tools and verbal communication but didn't make it. In fact, chimps are tool makers and communicate verbally too, so that's not the whole picture.

Our bipedal, upright stance did play a major role - helped to keep our brains cool for one (on the savannah, there can be a 5+ degree centigrade temperature difference between crouched and standing, and cooler brains work more efficiently). Here's an interesting video that looks at the role the humble bottom played in our survival, and it touches on endurance running as well: http://youtu.be/xKg9Vl_Wg5U

[glitterboy2098]

If they are the equivalent of twice as strong as a human then would that not equate to their being able to lift double of what a human could lift?

PS 5 x 20 for lift x 2 for a chimp is 200lbs
PS 10 x 20 for lift for a human is 200lbs.

For simplicity you could just say they have the human ps equivalent of 10 though.

or you know, they have the same x20 modifier as normal for the rules, but have twice the average PS score.. which is much less confusing..

[jaymz]

GB - Which the last line in that post I think would allude too......

[Zer0 Kay]

The endurance of humanity makes us the hunters that won evolution. Physical power isn't everything, obviously.

Nope, its the tool use and verbal communication.

But chimps communicate and use tools, heck sea otters use tools. I think it should be the development of tools and creation of languages. The apes, otters and other animals, just use what they can find and can't improve upon wither tools or the language they use.

[Zer0 Kay]

If they are the equivalent of twice as strong as a human then would that not equate to their being able to lift double of what a human could lift?

PS 5 x 20 for lift x 2 for a chimp is 200lbs
PS 10 x 20 for lift for a human is 200lbs.

For simplicity you could just say they have the human ps equivalent of 10 though.

No they're either 6d6 PS or 3d6x2 PS. We don't bring in special multipliers vs human but give the species their own roll.

[drewkitty ~..~]

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2009/02/how_strong_is_a_chimpanzee.html

"But the "five times" figure was refuted 20 years after Bauman's experiments. In 1943, Glen Finch of the Yale primate laboratory rigged an apparatus to test the arm strength of eight captive chimpanzees. An adult male chimp, he found, pulled about the same weight as an adult man. Once he'd corrected the measurement for their smaller body sizes, chimpanzees did turn out to be stronger than humans—but not by a factor of five or anything close to it.

Repeated tests in the 1960s confirmed this basic picture. A chimpanzee had, pound for pound, as much as twice the strength of a human when it came to pulling weights. The apes beat us in leg strength, too, despite our reliance on our legs for locomotion.

..

How did we get to be the weaklings of the primate order? Our overall body architecture makes a difference: Even though chimpanzees weigh less than humans, more of their mass is concentrated in their powerful arms. But a more important factor seems to be the structure of the muscles themselves."

No particular question or point, I just found it interesting to see this assumption about the great apes that they had incredible superhuman strength relative to us, is greatly exaggerated.

Psssst *points at the Str. charts in ATB2*

[Zer0 Kay]

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2009/02/how_strong_is_a_chimpanzee.html

"But the "five times" figure was refuted 20 years after Bauman's experiments. In 1943, Glen Finch of the Yale primate laboratory rigged an apparatus to test the arm strength of eight captive chimpanzees. An adult male chimp, he found, pulled about the same weight as an adult man. Once he'd corrected the measurement for their smaller body sizes, chimpanzees did turn out to be stronger than humans—but not by a factor of five or anything close to it.

Repeated tests in the 1960s confirmed this basic picture. A chimpanzee had, pound for pound, as much as twice the strength of a human when it came to pulling weights. The apes beat us in leg strength, too, despite our reliance on our legs for locomotion.

..

How did we get to be the weaklings of the primate order? Our overall body architecture makes a difference: Even though chimpanzees weigh less than humans, more of their mass is concentrated in their powerful arms. But a more important factor seems to be the structure of the muscles themselves."

No particular question or point, I just found it interesting to see this assumption about the great apes that they had incredible superhuman strength relative to us, is greatly exaggerated.

Psssst *points at the Str. charts in ATB2*

LoL you didn't do that quietly enough, I noticed and that's funny.