why is rifts so anti super??

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:28 am

No seriously, why is the dimensional crossroads so dead set against super powers? ?

And races and power categories designed to bounce seamlessly between mdc and sdc worlds??

Demigods, godlings, mega heroes, immortals. I see lots of fan made stuff in games on rifts but posting about them on the forums, specifically this forum always degrade into a flaming/trolling mod tattleling fluckshow??

Yet the same people that are rude and say mean things on posts here are quite friendly and polite on other forums.

Please explain the one sidedeness going on here.

A fan of post apocalyptic settings and super heroes.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:31 am

I chose option four.
Because I like random craziness from other settings that just falls out of a Rift because it stops the game setting from getting stale.

wyrmraker · Unread post by **wyrmraker** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:56 am

While I support the concept of a Universal System (I am a HUGE fan of GURPS, for example), I have found that, in Rifts, the introduction of super powers is almost invariably a blatant power grab by munchikins. This has been my experience. I have never been in a Rifts game involving super powers from Heroes Unlimited that wasn't a blatant power grab to be the biggest billy bad-a** in the group. So if I am running a Rifts game, and a player says "Hey, can I play a guy with super powers?" my answer is going to be... well, fairly harsh in the negatory sense. I can't repeat what I said to the last one who asked, because it gets pretty graphic in a way that allowed for no arguement.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:03 pm

Do you allow godlings and demigods?? Sea titans and hatchling dragons??

wyrmraker · Unread post by **wyrmraker** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:13 pm

say652 wrote:Do you allow godlings and demigods?? Sea titans and hatchling dragons??

What I allow depends on the power level of the game. I was in a game where everyone but one guy was playing something normal-powered (Tundra Ranger, Shifter, and Light Cyborg). Then the one guy pulled out a Godling Gunfighter. Why? Because he wanted to be the biggest billy bad-a** in the room, that's why.

If I have my sights set on what I consider a normal power game, then no, I will absolutely not allow godlings, demigods, and sea titans. Hatchling dragons are substantially different.

Insofar as Super Powers go, like I said, I have only seen them as blatant power grabs in Rifts, so I disallow them. Period. And then I tell my usual suspects in the group, "Stop whining and deal with it."

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:20 pm

I didn't vote because Other wasn't an option.

In my opinion its all about the feel of the setting. Magic+Psi+Tech = Rifts. Once you add in super powers it becomes something else.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:28 pm

I have never had an issue with a varying power level party. In response to naysayers. Atlantis.

Alrik Vas · Unread post by **Alrik Vas** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:44 pm

I'm fine with super powers existing, I'm okay with PC's having them. Though it's really up to them. I mean, an immortal mega hero vs a CS platoon really isn't much of a fun fight for the GM.

When they're against magic and psionics it can get interesting, but the majority of the useful and crippling spells and psi powers have saving throws. The super hero can also take combinations of abilities that will make fighting them, or in some cases, even finding them, pointless.

Though, not everyone is like this. Some people want a challenge. Those are the people i run games for, no matter their class, race or power choices.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:50 pm

I like Atlantis. My favorite world book. Now matter how bad You think you are......Pffft. it's Atlantis.

wyrmraker · Unread post by **wyrmraker** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:00 pm

I had to hunt this down from a thread last year:

"To quote Johnnycat93:
"Lord no,
I think super powers are pure evil and do not let them anywhere near my campaigns, for I fear the consequences would be terrible...
At first, all would appear normal. But then it would begin: the earth would become dry and cracked, the seas would turn the blackest of black, and one would be able to taste the vile char of rot on the air. Then, one day, the sun would simply fail to rise and the world would be cast into an eternal twilight. Creatures born in this age of shadow would be abominations of nature, a product of the twisted existence which spawned them. The separation between planes would be abolished, and one world would leak into the next. From betwixt the very fabric of space and time horrors would arise to plague the dying universe, eldritch aberrations drawn from the inky darkness of mans mind. Then, life as we know it would simply give up. Ley lines would flash an angry red, facilitating the destruction of everything around them. Animals would cease trying to survive and would just starve on the forest floor as the trees burned around them. Psychics would be able to sense the inaudible screams of a dying universe and would be driven mad by the cacophony of voices. From here the End will make its presence known as he will rise up from amongst the chaos, boring his way into the very essence of creation. Those that look upon it will know serenity in its form and will be immolated in its glory. Finally, as the embers of life burn out across the expanse of space, it will utter from its mouth the song that destroys the world..."

For my own experience, I have created walking devastation using super powers in Rifts as a lesson to a GM who didn't understand just how powerful this stuff could get. A few Minor powers and suddenly I have 8 attacks per melee, add in power armor training and that could get bumped to at least ten.
At first level."

Alrik Vas · Unread post by **Alrik Vas** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:05 pm

Yeah. I like Superpowers to remain SDC, even in Rifts. They aren't really supernatural anyway. Just "other."

That usually keeps people from doing it.

Though like i said before, in all honesty i'd let people play what they want. I'll just sit here and you can tell me how the game goes.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:14 pm

Yea my immortal godling PowerSurge is a powerhouse in Rifts. Memnock also pounted out I have like no skills of any real use. I stand guard while some one else picks a lock or hacks a computer. I only have one wp and no lore skills. "Omg whats that??" Our replies "I um dont know"

Sure seeing a sledgehammer like that is intimidating but, he is quite beatable. Because I eesignef him to be hella tough but not invincible.

Munchkins are gonna munch, its what they do. Nerfherders are gonna nerf, its what they do.
And role players are gonna role play, its what I do.

Damian Magecraft · Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:32 pm

It is not that I am anti-supers (7 distinct HU universes says otherwise)
It is that I am firmly into controlling the flavor and direction of my Game worlds.
If a player insists on playing a character with super powers he has the choice of being a character from one of my mutant tribes (each tribe has a small set of powers to choose from based on the theme of the tribe). The player accepts these restrictions I apply or does not get to play a character with super powers.

wyrmraker · Unread post by **wyrmraker** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:40 pm

Damian Magecraft wrote:It is not that I am anti-supers (7 distinct HU universes says otherwise)
It is that I am firmly into controlling the flavor and direction of my Game worlds.
If a player insists on playing a character with super powers he has the choice of being a character from one of my mutant tribes (each tribe has a small set of powers to choose from based on the theme of the tribe). The player accepts these restrictions I apply or does not get to play a character with super powers.

Damian, I will quote you on this one.
"The issue is not really about allowing powers or not.
Its about GM authority.
On one side we have the group that is trying like the devil to say that only badevilspiteful GMs apply restrictions of any kind.
And the other side is defending the GMs right to control what goes into his game world.
Superpowers in Rifts just happens to be the latest battle field in an unending war of Player Entitlement Issues."

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:45 pm

Even when I give the option for super powers, no one wants them. Memnocks character Desmond chose psionics and magic. Um his use of psionics.....peeesh! I got no words for the amount of havoc he's caused with them. Truly amazing use of powers and victories without combat. Awe inspiring actually.

Even in our god level campaign and as nasty in combat as PowerSurge is, he pales in comparison to what Desmond can do with magic and psionics.

"You're a beautifully crafted sledgehammer 'Surge, I am a scalpel wielded by a master surgeon. You're still my favorite bodyguard Dwarfie." Desmond pats PowerSurge on his head. "Off with you now young one, I have important matters to attend to"

wyrmraker · Unread post by **wyrmraker** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:47 pm

say652 wrote:Even when I give the option for super powers, no one wants them. Memnocks character Desmond chose psionics and magic. Um his use of psionics.....peeesh! I got no words for the amount of havoc he's caused with them. Truly amazing use of powers and victories without combat. Awe inspiring actually.

Even in our god level campaign and as nasty in combat as PowerSurge is, he pales in comparison to what Desmond can do with magic and psionics.

"You're a beautifully crafted sledgehammer 'Surge, I am a scalpel wielded by a master surgeon. You're still my favorite bodyguard Dwarfie." Desmond pats PowerSurge on his head. "Off with you now young one, I have important matters to attend to"

I seriously wish I could get that kind of creativity from my Usual Suspect. Instead of creatively using the abilities in the Rifts books, he instead tries to whine and cajole me into letting him play spuer-powered characters.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:51 pm

I like to GM I offer them things I like, such as super powers. They respond Bwahahaha no thanks, watch this. And yea my adventure gets pwned hardcore.

Giant2005 · Unread post by **Giant2005** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:55 pm

I have no aversion to superpowers but I do tend to try to avoid games that are of that level of power.

wyrmraker · Unread post by **wyrmraker** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:55 pm

say652 wrote:I like to GM I offer them things I like, such as super powers. They respond Bwahahaha no thanks, watch this. And yea my adventure gets pwned hardcore.

That would honestly be a refreshing change.

Bill · Unread post by **Bill** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:58 pm

I disagree that the game is anti-supers. In quite a few books superhuman mutants get a quick nod, such as their slave price in Atlantis's markets and how CS city state security responds to them. The original main book even included a table of random mutations that included a couple minor powers. I think it's more true to say that the game doesn't prominently focus on them, and that is simply because they're really not special in a world full of aliens, mystics, cyborgs, and psychics.

I agree that transitioning things from MDC settings to SDC ones should be easier and more clearly described in the source material. That said, it's really not all that challenging.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:01 pm

Supers dont normally gain more powers, what you got is what you get.
Supers normally have less skills, HU style ones only gain secondary skills.
My niece Emogirl offered her supers, her no thanks, built a female Maxi-Man and opened up shop. After I asked her why tattoo magic? Her reply tats is mad cool unc!!

eliakon · Unread post by **eliakon** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:20 pm

Out of curiostity what is the point of a poll where all the asnwers come down to "The world is wrong, Super Powers are the one true way, and any setting not set up for them is either scared, or nerfed."
That not a poll that's a loaded rhetorical question.
As for why super powers are not common in rifts. In most places it doesn't fit the flavor of the game world as written. Sure you can add everything from every book to everywhere.....but then your not playing the books as written, your playing something else. *shrugs*
I am perfectly fine with super powers in my rifts games. But I am also perfectly fine with saying 'sorry that power/combination/whatever isn't acceptable for this game.' Just the same as I am going to tell any other player who's proposed character does not fit the proposed theme of the game. Some games are high power, over the top epics, where literally anything goes....but when I am running one of my CSPsi games, Your 'super' will probably not be allowed 3 major 3 minor. *shrugs*

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:30 pm

True I dont like the super vagabonds.
I also dont allow cb1 style supers anymore.
2major 3minor plus rogue scholar skills. Um no.

Imo the HU supers have for the most part less super powers and a lot less skills. To me it balances out. I also love the blackvault for powers, even then I still cant get a Rifts player to choose the option of being a super.

Riftmaker · Unread post by **Riftmaker** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:42 pm

Superheros are VERY top heavy and don't get much for leveling depending on their build.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:50 pm

We compared skills, a HU mutant and a cyber knight (rmb) the knight had nearly twice as many skills.

Alrik Vas · Unread post by **Alrik Vas** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:00 pm

There are a lot of games where you can just force your way with superpowers. Sometimes the skills don't even matter.

But again it depends on the GM.

Mechghost · Unread post by **Mechghost** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:05 pm

When I run a Rifts game I like the fact that Super-Powers are rare, I don't want a party of "supers" running around playing at being Earth's mightiest heroes, 1 character with super powers once in a while is ok (I manage the powers list and weed out ones that are to powerful, don't fit). I've had a couple of Sea Titan chars, they don't overly affect power levels in a game, often they were just in EBA if that and using hand held rifles etc. so they rank in with borgs for combat. Hatchlings have limited skills and magic and combat to counter the mdc they have plus they have the whole size and appearance issue. just my humble opinion

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:17 pm

Nope. I attempted with my new group who have never played rifts. Two Bwahahaha's and one no I don't look good in spandex. O.o

Glitterboy.
Cyber knight.
Shifter.
:/

Glistam · Unread post by **Glistam** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:23 pm

When I'm running the game, I'm not a fan of super powers in Rifts unless the player has a good concept for the character that I agree with, and will work with the style.type of game that I want to run.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:29 pm

At this point I couldn't give them away

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:53 pm

say652 wrote:At this point I couldn't give them away

Fine fine! I'll take one! What you got?

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:57 pm

Thinyser wrote:
say652 wrote:At this point I couldn't give them away

Fine fine! I'll take one! What you got?

You'll just change your mind. Lol.
O thats cool but um yea, I like the glitterboy that way I'm not some freakshow mutie. Ladies love pilots! But knock yourself out with those three tata havin chicks....freak!!

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:04 pm

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:17 pm

I'd support random craziness, but to be honest, I like insulting the meatheads more...

Glistam · Unread post by **Glistam** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:22 pm

My favorite Rifts characters over the years that I've played have been super heroes.

Killer Cyborg · Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:47 pm

say652 wrote:No seriously, why is the dimensional crossroads so dead set against super powers? ?

And races and power categories designed to bounce seamlessly between mdc and sdc worlds??

Demigods, godlings, mega heroes, immortals. I see lots of fan made stuff in games on rifts but posting about them on the forums, specifically this forum always degrade into a flaming/trolling mod tattleling fluckshow??

Yet the same people that are rude and say mean things on posts here are quite friendly and polite on other forums.

Please explain the one sidedeness going on here.

A fan of post apocalyptic settings and super heroes.

No idea what you're talking about.

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:50 pm

So I had a eugenic character named Eugene (lame I know) made up but I cannot find him now. I dont think I even digitized him and my old paper char sheets are tucked away in my basement. But I remember he had spent most of his budget on a bunch of short range mini-harpoons that each did 1d4 but only had like a 20 foot range. He had tons of these like 40 or 50 and they could be launched out all as a single volley so on one attack he could do like 1d4x40 (or x50 I cannot remember how many he had but it was lots). They were awesome because they stayed attached with their little harpoon cord and I could real them back in closing the gap to my opponent while getting them ready for another deployment. Now looking through PU2 and Mutant underground I cannot find these short range harpoon things and I know I didnt make them up myself. Oh well cant find the character anyway so it doesn't matter... still bugs me though that I cant find the harpoon things

taalismn · Unread post by **taalismn** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:16 pm

Sure the 'poons weren't from a fansite?

Thinyser · Unread post by **Thinyser** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 9:35 pm

taalismn wrote:Sure the 'poons weren't from a fansite?

98% sure. The only fan stuff I ever remember using was Kitsune's TW borg stuff. In fact I think his was one of only a hand-full of fan sites that I ever visited. (and I just checked the 'poons were not there on his page)

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:34 am

Sarcasm. Character creation gone awry. Read the thread.

kaid · Unread post by **kaid** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:40 am

I have allowed it a few times but typically when somebody is asking to bring supers into a non scraypers game they are looking to munckin. One thing that helps lessen the cheese factor a bit is simply make people roll the powers on the random charts and not pick and choose. They still tend to wind up with a really strong character but it lowers the chance of somebody stacking some of the I win combos that are available.

Incriptus · Unread post by **Incriptus** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:26 am

The Conversation usually goes like this

I have 100 rifts books, with over 1000 rifts classes and you* (Impersonal You, ie what ever player i'm talking to at the moment) can't find one you want to play?
Why do you suppose that is?
Ok you don't want to have to rely on equipment, ok I have dozens of humans with magic psionics or special abilities why none of them?
Oh you don't want to rely on PPE or ISP, ok how about ...?
Oh you don't want to have a all the disadvantages that come with that class.
So essentially you want to be a Human with special abilities that are available to you at all time with no cost either mechanically or storyline based?
That is not what (my) Rifts is about.

Mechghost · Unread post by **Mechghost** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 12:35 pm

came across a char my wife and I had made for her, a wilderness scout with winged flight, heightened senses, and heightened healing. an sdc char, the whole concept works for her char and fits in the game that was to be, hoping to use her in a new game. All it really gives her is some travel speed over being on foot, but she has wings (eagle type) so no heavy armor and she does get tired plus the CS will probably shoot on sight. so it balances out nicely.

flatline · Unread post by **flatline** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:05 pm

As far as I'm concerned, super powers is just another power category that fits in just fine with the mish-mash that is Rifts Earth.

I like to recommend super powered characters to new players so that they contribute while learning the ropes.

--flatline

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:18 pm

The thing is, super powers for the most part are not mystical in origin so they are quite useless against vampires, werewolves, and other supernatural creatures.

flatline · Unread post by **flatline** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:31 pm

say652 wrote:The thing is, super powers for the most part are not mystical in origin so they are quite useless against vampires, werewolves, and other supernatural creatures.

That means that, at worst, you're as bad off as the majority of characters against such foes. But you still likely have advantages like being able to fly, or being MDC, better attributes, etc.

--flatline

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:36 pm

Heroes Unlimited doesnt have lore skills. So unless your a mystic study good luck figuring out what your even fighting.

Glistam · Unread post by **Glistam** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 2:46 pm

If the character is rifted in from Heroes Unlimited then they can pick lore skills as a part of their acclimation to Rifts. They get like 12 or so skills as per the Rifts Converssion Book 1 (either original or revised). Even without that, HU2 characters can learn 2 new secondary skills at levels 3, 6, 9, 12, and 15. So the lore skill issue can be solved pretty easily.

Warshield73 · Unread post by **Warshield73** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:27 pm

Not sure I understand this thread. Super powers have been a part of Rifts since Conversion Book one. Not only can you have characters from Heroes Unlimited rift in but rules are given for any scholar or adventurer to have super powers.

Mercenaries book has the Super Spy OCC where super powers are one of the options. Phase World main book describes Phase World as a place "where technology, magic, and super powers coexist and create volatile mixtures".

I have had super powers in my Rifts game since 1990, using the old HU Revised and most GMs I know do as well.

Ninjabunny wrote:I don't like super powers, I don't like to being in N&SS or BtS, rarely even PFRpg. I like to keep my settings separate. Period. I find the pole dickish too, it's geared as any response but a positive one indicates the voter is a moron or douche. Bias polls are not cool.

I know a lot of people feel this way. In the other games I like to keep them separate, but Rifts is "Palladium in a blender" as a friend of mine likes to say. Super powers are no more disruptive than magic, psionics, or giant robots.

I also agree that the poll itself too bias to be even fun, much less informative.

say652 · Unread post by **say652** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 3:39 pm

I proved a good point to mien freund Memnock, starting reading PowerSurges chatacter sheet. Boy did he get heated. Then I started talking about psionics, yea he laughed and pointed out like everytime he pwned a gm. Laughing along I was like tea I know, that was me.
Suddwnly the discussion changed quickly to movies. How Desmond Moonshade aquired PowerSurge.
Bio manipulation, "stay"
Implant memory, "we grew up together been friends since birth."
Empathy,"You can trust me."

Memnock accomplished this feat at level:1 with a super psionic Godling.

Game unbalancing really....super powers are game unbalancing. .....Pffft.

my poll to gather info and process why