why is rifts so anti super??

[say652]

I personally like Ar. Adding a natural/Robotic ar to your games would imho show the durabilities of power armors, giant robots and supernatural creatures better that the thousands of mdc that is currently used. But hey thatd just my opinion man.

[Warshield73]

I personally like Ar. Adding a natural/Robotic ar to your games would imho show the durabilities of power armors, giant robots and supernatural creatures better that the thousands of mdc that is currently used. But hey thatd just my opinion man.

While I have never had the hatred for the MDC system that others have I sort of agree with you on this.

When I play Heroes Unlimited I use AR and a system of PV (Penetration Value) that I got from Compendium of Modern Weapons.

[say652]

I dont use the pv system but if something has more than one ar, an mineral alien from an abrasive atmosphere for example. I take the highest ar and add two 16ar in this case. If said alien was a level:15 physical training hero his ar would go up to 18.

I like ar good solid system. Using an ar for body armor for example makes sniping foes in heavy deadboy armor possible again.

Mega damage is a sound principal but in application much of the concept is lost.

[Giant2005]

There is no example of a "Natural A.R." that effects Mega-Damage weaponry.

That isn't entirely true. The Phase Demon in Dimensional Outbreak has a Natural A.R. that effects M.D. weaponry, although it only does so through a loop-hole in your wording. However if you had said "There is no example of a "Natural A.R." on a Mega-Damage creature", it would have been true.

It does make me wonder about those magic rings in Palladium Fantasy's Western Empire that grant a Natural A.R. though... How exactly do they convert to Rifts? Could a M.D. being gain a natural A.R. through magic?

[Slight001]

There is no example of a "Natural A.R." that effects Mega-Damage weaponry.

That isn't entirely true. The Phase Demon in Dimensional Outbreak has a Natural A.R. that effects M.D. weaponry, although it only does so through a loop-hole in your wording. However if you had said "There is no example of a "Natural A.R." on a Mega-Damage creature", it would have been true.

It does make me wonder about those magic rings in Palladium Fantasy's Western Empire that grant a Natural A.R. though... How exactly do they convert to Rifts? Could a M.D. being gain a natural A.R. through magic?

huh, don't remember that. Not surprising considering that I barely even looked through the book as most dimension books hold little interest for me.

[Nightmask]

Just to nitpick:
Creature of the Waves
Range: Self.
Duration: One melee (I 5 seconds) per level of experience.
Saving Throw: None.
P.P.E.: Seventy
The Warlock is temporarily transformed into a Water Elemental-like being composed of water vapor. The appearance is a shiny, silver colored, semi-opaque featureless figure in a humanoid form. In this
form the Warlock can swim at a speed of 120 mph ( 192 krn) or 2 miles
per minute (3.2 km), tum completely invisible in water, is an M.D.C.
being with 200 M.D.C., impervious to lasers, Mega-Damage attacks inflict half damage (fire does double damage), can squeeze through keyholes and cracks in one melee action, and is +2 on initiative, +I to
strike and parry and +2 to dodge, but cannot inflict Mega-Damage, just
normal S.D.C. damage. Although he can pick up and carry up to 500
lbs (225 kg), the Warlock is -2 to strike using weapons of any kind. ... now this is a spell that turns a creature into water...
see the note about impervious to lasers...now if you wanna troll, you can say " but that's that spell!'.... it's also among the natural abilities of water elementals, and among the abiltieis of Mercurials from Dimensional Outbreak....

Wow, so hundreds if not thousands of gallons of water can travel through a keyhole in a mere 15 seconds?

[Giant2005]

Just to nitpick:
Creature of the Waves
Range: Self.
Duration: One melee (I 5 seconds) per level of experience.
Saving Throw: None.
P.P.E.: Seventy
The Warlock is temporarily transformed into a Water Elemental-like being composed of water vapor. The appearance is a shiny, silver colored, semi-opaque featureless figure in a humanoid form. In this
form the Warlock can swim at a speed of 120 mph ( 192 krn) or 2 miles
per minute (3.2 km), tum completely invisible in water, is an M.D.C.
being with 200 M.D.C., impervious to lasers, Mega-Damage attacks inflict half damage (fire does double damage), can squeeze through keyholes and cracks in one melee action, and is +2 on initiative, +I to
strike and parry and +2 to dodge, but cannot inflict Mega-Damage, just
normal S.D.C. damage. Although he can pick up and carry up to 500
lbs (225 kg), the Warlock is -2 to strike using weapons of any kind. ... now this is a spell that turns a creature into water...
see the note about impervious to lasers...now if you wanna troll, you can say " but that's that spell!'.... it's also among the natural abilities of water elementals, and among the abiltieis of Mercurials from Dimensional Outbreak....

Wow, so hundreds if not thousands of gallons of water can travel through a keyhole in a mere 15 seconds?

Less than that - it is a melee action not a melee round.
Rappanui, I don't know exactly what you are trying to establish there but if it is about APS: Mercury or whatever you are talking about, APS: Mercury needs to have "Impervious to Lasers" in its description if it is going to be impervious to Lasers - the fact that a completely unrelated spell has that ability has no bearing on the power in question. Although I have no idea if the power has that ability too, just going off what was said in this discussion.

[Mack]

Wow, so hundreds if not thousands of gallons of water can travel through a keyhole in a mere 15 seconds?

Two things:
- The character is composed water vapor, not water.
- The character's size doesn't change. So it would be roughly 20 gallons of vapor, not hundreds or thousands.

[Nightmask]

Wow, so hundreds if not thousands of gallons of water can travel through a keyhole in a mere 15 seconds?

Two things:
- The character is composed water vapor, not water.
- The character's size doesn't change. So it would be roughly 20 gallons of vapor, not hundreds or thousands.

Which is still a lot of water to push through a keyhole, being water vapor doesn't make it easier in fact it requires the vapor to go through even faster since some of the space is occupied by air

[Mack]

Wow, so hundreds if not thousands of gallons of water can travel through a keyhole in a mere 15 seconds?

Two things:
- The character is composed water vapor, not water.
- The character's size doesn't change. So it would be roughly 20 gallons of vapor, not hundreds or thousands.

Which is still a lot of water to push through a keyhole, being water vapor doesn't make it easier in fact it requires the vapor to go through even faster since some of the space is occupied by air

Vapor would be easier than liquid, but this is far enough off subject that it's not worth arguing about. I doubt we'll ever be at the same gaming table and have to arm-wrestle over it.

[Killer Cyborg]

There is no example of a "Natural A.R." that effects Mega-Damage weaponry.

That isn't entirely true. The Phase Demon in Dimensional Outbreak has a Natural A.R. that effects M.D. weaponry, although it only does so through a loop-hole in your wording. However if you had said "There is no example of a "Natural A.R." on a Mega-Damage creature", it would have been true.

It does make me wonder about those magic rings in Palladium Fantasy's Western Empire that grant a Natural A.R. though... How exactly do they convert to Rifts? Could a M.D. being gain a natural A.R. through magic?

I've wondered about those rings.
I think I decided that they just turn you into a MDC being if you weren't already one.

[say652]

I'd let them have an ar. Sure you can deflect railgun rounds. Didnt help much with an explosion.

[eliakon]

it's not imprevious to lasers, just that "hurting" him with the laser will still require an AR" To represent the shifting viscouity to hurt it.. Also, the NPC in question also has LIQUIFY and Spiral...

Which is a nice house rule, but not how AR works in canon/RAW. In canon MD weapons automatically penetrate AR. So in canon if I shoot them with a laser then I just have to roll to strike. If hit he can choose to parry/dodge. There is no 'beat AR' since the attack is an MD attack it ignores AR entirely.

[Thinyser]

except that you are not paying attention to what the power does. How does = target moved out of the way = Automatically hit because it's a Mega damage Weapon ? by your logic, everytime he's hit by a MD weapon, he is scattered for d6 Melees since it's more then 50 SDC. You are being too literal. Where is your common sense?

[guardiandashi]

except that you are not paying attention to what the power does. How does = target moved out of the way = Automatically hit because it's a Mega damage Weapon ? by your logic, everytime he's hit by a MD weapon, he is scattered for d6 Melees since it's more then 50 SDC. You are being too literal. Where is your common sense?

the issue is how palladium treats AR. In SDC settings AR is a "durability mechanic" to represent hits that hit but glance off, fail to penetrate etc. which is actually fine. In MDC environments MDC attacks are simplified to pass/fail mechanic either you miss and do no damage or you hit and do damage. (unless countered by active defenses) granted it makes things faster(in some ways) but in others it "dumbs down combat" in a MDC environment armors with AR represent chinks/flaws in the coverage of the armor. so if I have a trench coat (or similar) with say an ar of 10 from the front, and ar 14 from the rear (for example) any hit over the AR means I have bypassed the armor.

This is why I was thinking a "dual AR" mechanic would make some sense. the lower AR in my dual ar mechanic in that system would represent the sdc ar mechanic of "hits that do nothing" wheras hits between the ar's strike and damage the armor itself, hits over the second ar, bypass the primary armor protection and hit at the "chewy centers"

[say652]

Yup mdc environments are on fact dumbed down sdc environments.
Couldnt figure out ar so lets start a new line qith damage times a hundred but in mdc realms only and get rid of ar. Lmfao

[flatline]

AR is a horrible mechanic. AR lets a thrown tomato damage a tank if the thrower roles well.

--flatline

[say652]

Tomato went through the port. And if you've ever woeked around teack machines. I swear look at them cross eyed and the track falls off. Sneeze and you threw a track. Lol.

Bobcat got taken out by crab apples. They got wedged up in the guide wheel located in the nose of the track and blammo. Four hours and a trip to Bobcat later. Lil muncher was back on line. That was last Wednesday.

[flatline]

Tomato went through the port. And if you've ever woeked around teack machines. I swear look at them cross eyed and the track falls off. Sneeze and you threw a track. Lol.

Bobcat got taken out by crab apples. They got wedged up in the guide wheel located in the nose of the track and blammo. Four hours and a trip to Bobcat later. Lil muncher was back on line. That was last Wednesday.

I remain convinced that AR is a horrible mechanic.

--flatline

[say652]

I think mdc is a horrible mechanic.

[flatline]

I think mdc is a horrible mechanic.

We are in complete agreement on that point.

--flatline

[say652]

Ar imo is a great mechanic. Makes sniping possible.

[ZINO]

Ar imo is a great mechanic. Makes sniping possible.

dido here >)

[eliakon]

except that you are not paying attention to what the power does. How does = target moved out of the way = Automatically hit because it's a Mega damage Weapon ? by your logic, everytime he's hit by a MD weapon, he is scattered for d6 Melees since it's more then 50 SDC. You are being too literal. Where is your common sense?

A couple problems with this statement
I AM paying attention to what the power does (what it says, not what you want it to say).
1)So that scattering is from 'explosions and impacts' NOT say....lasers. So if I shoot him with a laser he doesn't scatter, he just takes damage.
2) nAR is not = target moved out of the way its target got hit and it bounced off. That doesn't happen in rifts which is why the nAR is removed. "Target moved" is called a dodge, and he can still try to dodge. He just loses his passive "you hit me but it didn't do any damage 'cuz I have nAR" thing
2) That whole 'all sdc becomes mdc' thing could easily mean (or not, GM will have to rule) that he now only scatters if he takes 50 MD or more.
Common Sense does not mean I have to use someone else's house rules, nor does it mean I have to rewrite powers to be more powerful. It doesn't even mean I have to allow every possible combination trick. It means that when something isn't logical that we use our reason to figure out what would make it work. My common sense says "he loses AR, but becomes MDC" (ie what is written) not "he is totally invulnerable to all harm" (what is not written)

[say652]

Aps liquid doesnt have an ar. Its immune to physical attacks its liquid.

[eliakon]

wrong, the AR in APS liquid and Mercury powers is not bouncing off but the fact that the character didn't hit anything vital, after all, it's A LIQUID.

-APS Liquid doesn't have an AR. It does provide "Limited Invulnerability" which is then explained in detail. Including the fact that they are explicitly vulnerable to fire, heat, lasers, magic, psi....
-APS Mercury has AR 15 (which doesn't apply in rifts)...and again specifically says that they are vulnerable to fire, heat, lasers, magic psi...

So...yes a laser will hurt you. And since only EXPLOSIONS splatter you it doesn't matter if that laser does 2 points or 200 points, your still not going to splatter.

[Thinyser]

wrong, the AR in APS liquid and Mercury powers is not bouncing off but the fact that the character didn't hit anything vital, after all, it's A LIQUID.

-APS Liquid doesn't have an AR. It does provide "Limited Invulnerability" which is then explained in detail. Including the fact that they are explicitly vulnerable to fire, heat, lasers, magic, psi....
-APS Mercury has AR 15 (which doesn't apply in rifts)...and again specifically says that they are vulnerable to fire, heat, lasers, magic psi...

So...yes a laser will hurt you. And since only EXPLOSIONS splatter you it doesn't matter if that laser does 2 points or 200 points, your still not going to splatter.

But hes A LIQUID! use some common sense.
JK...
Eliakon you are wasting your time. I said almost identical things a page or two ago and then gave up.

Rappanui its fine to say "this is how we do it" but when you don't understand what the rules actually say and instead argue your house rules are canon that doesn't make us wrong, it makes you wrong.

[Thinyser]

You have become fixated on APS mercury and not the fact that he has multiple abilities that change his state.

Dude give it up. NONE of the multiple abilities you have mentioned can actually do what you are stating the character can do.
APS Liquid is NOT immune to energy nor does it splatter it.
APS Mercury is NOT immune to energy nor does it splatter it.
APS Liquid+Mercury+spiral is NOT immune to energy nor does it splatter it. PERIOD.

Its totally fine if you want to house rule it that way, but by the rules as written you are wrong. Clearly and unambiguously wrong.

[Thinyser]

This is the list of immunites for Mercurials:

Impervious to Gases and Toxins: Mercurials do not
breathe.
Impervious to Vacuum and Resistant to Cold: Cold has no
effect unless it is colder than -200 degrees Fahrenheit (-128.8
C), at which point Speed and P.P. attributes, attacks per melee and combat bonuses are reduced by half until wanner
conditions prevail.
Impervious to Diseases: Metallic beings, they are not
hanned by diseases that affect flesh and blood organisms.
Impervious to Horror Factor: They see everything as a
new experience and they are often too naIve to realize what
kind of danger they are in. Death is a foreign concept to
them, and they also have pseudo-immortality.
Resistant to Lasers: Their glistening metallic bodies reflect most light based weapons such as lasers, and they take
half damage from laser attacks.
Resistant to Fire and Heat: At temperatures higher than
900 degrees Fahrenheit (482 C), Mercurials begin to feel
lightheaded, bonuses and skill performance are reduced by
half, and the beings suffer damage at a rate of 2D6 M.D. per
melee round. Note: Magic fire does full damage.
Resistant to Explosions: All explosions, impacts from falls
from a great height and high speed impacts from a vehicle do
only 10% damage to the Mercurial, however, if the original
damage was greater than 80 M.D. points, the Mercurial is blown (or knocked) into 2D6xlO pieces! The strange being
can reform its body (see Shape-Changing above), but it takes
at least a few melee rounds. Less damaging explosions just
inflict damage.
Resistant to Low-Speed Kinetic Attacks: Punches, kicks,
blunt weapon attacks, blades, arrows, and bullets do half
damage. High speed kinetic attacks such as rounds from a
machine-gun, rail gun, auto-cannon and similar weapons do
full damage.
Note: Energy weapons do full damage, as do most forms
of magic and magic weapons. Mercurials have no special defenses against psionic attacks.

That is not a canon power that I know of. APS Mercury is in PU3 on p.41 and it is not what you are quoting. Cite your canon source please.

[Thinyser]

Well there you go, its a alien race (RCC rather) not a power. I find it doubtful that his intention was for this RCC to be used instead of the APS Mercury power in MDC dimensions.

Also the laser resistance noted is due to its reflective metallic body not anything to do with it being liquid and forming a hole for the laser to safely pass through, no AR for MDC either. The "Blown Apart" aspect is again only for explosions, falls from great heights, and highspeed impacts to vehicles. Energy weapons will not blast it apart, neither will magic or psi.

[Thinyser]

So I had a eugenic character named Eugene (lame I know) made up but I cannot find him now. I dont think I ever digitized him and my old paper char sheets are tucked away in my basement. But I remember he had spent most of his budget on a bunch of short range mini-harpoons that each did 1d4 but only had like a 20 foot range. He had tons of these like 40 or 50 and they could be launched out all as a single volley so on one attack he could do like 1d4x40 (or x50 I cannot remember how many he had but it was lots). They were awesome because they stayed attached with their little harpoon cord and I could real them back in closing the gap to my opponent while getting them ready for another deployment. Now looking through PU2 and Mutant underground I cannot find these short range harpoon things and I know I didnt make them up myself. Oh well cant find the character anyway so it doesn't matter... still bugs me though that I cant find the harpoon things

HAHA! I crawled down into my basement (literally crawled as I have a broken leg and my knee scooter is not stair friendly) and got my ol' 5 subject binder out of storage and found Eugene!

The mini harpoons are actually called Flying Blades (Alien Chimera) found on p.33 of PU2. He has 4 arms and 8 flying blades per arm (could have up to 12/arm but I spent my budget on other stuff too) so thats 32 blade tipped tendrils each doing 1d4 at a range up to 30ft and can be fired individually or in volleys up to the max number you have as one action. They strike and return as one action, but do not grab and reel in the opponent as I thought (at least not without adding adhesion to them ).

Depending on the GM's ruling HtH strike and PS damage bonus (which Eugene has SN PS of 68 for 2d4x10+53) Can be added to body weapon damage and since the tendrils are a part of his body and do not detach like launched spikes do it would be (2d4x10+1d4+53)x # of tendrils in the volley!
Minimum damage per tendril is 2x10+1+53=74
Max damage per tendril is 8x10+4+53=137
They can all be launched in a single volley so if that is done he does 74x32 = 2368 Damage minimum and 137x32 = 4384 maximum (not considering a critical hit for 2x)

Boom!

[Thinyser]

Lol sir the story about getting to this made me laugh, mostly because I have a sprained wrist right now. ( let the dirty jokes fly!)

I fell 20 ft off of a ladder. Shattered my tibia into more than half a dozen pieces, broke my fibula, dislocated my ankle and bruised my other foot so bad I couldn't even use it to stand on for more than a week. This was on 5-17 exactly a week after I graduated (4.0 GPA) with a 2 year tech degree in wind turbine maintenance, which is likely worthless now that I have a workmans comp claim for falling off a ladder . I have 2 plates and don't know how many screws holding my leg together (and 2 big scars from the surgeries, which also happened to caused some nerve damage and deadened my big toe and heel).
On top of all that my body reacted to the stress/meds/implanted metal by attacking my skin so now I have psoriasis which covers more than half my body and will likely last the rest of my life...

I go to my next check up at the end of the month and hope the Dr says I can start Physical Therapy. Maybe if I'm lucky and work hard at getting my tendons to stretch and my muscles rebuilt I'll be able to walk without an aid by Christmas, assuming the nerve damage doesn't impede my balance too much.

All in all I consider myself lucky that I'm not paralyzed or dead.

[wyrmraker]

Re-Channel and Expel both Energy and Kinetic Energy. Add on Iron Will for both Magic and Psi bonuses, plus stats. Whatever extra powers are allowed by the rolls.

[Thinyser]

I would say so.
I also didn't mean anything with what I said the laughing was how dedicated you were to finding a character that you crawled down stairs to post it.

No worries, I knew where you were coming from (or pretty close to the mark anyhow) and no offence taken. I just wanted to tell my story! Its the first time I blabbed it on the boards. It also explains my recent presence after years of absence.

[Lenwen]

No seriously, why is the dimensional crossroads so dead set against super powers? ?

And races and power categories designed to bounce seamlessly between mdc and sdc worlds??

Demigods, godlings, mega heroes, immortals. I see lots of fan made stuff in games on rifts but posting about them on the forums, specifically this forum always degrade into a flaming/trolling mod tattleling fluckshow??

This is simple.

The dimensional crossroads allows for what ever you want to play .. (for instance, KS himself stated he does in fact not play the Rifts magic system as it is, he home rules it to his liking) So if the creator of the setting does in fact not play the setting , as its presented, but actually has to create house rules for the magic system .. The question then becomes not why does it not allow .. but Why has KS himself designed it like that .. yet play it entirely Another way ?

Yet the same people that are rude and say mean things on posts here are quite friendly and polite on other forums.

Please explain the one sidedeness going on here.

This is equally simple.. The reason that "some" posters get rabidly, defensive about the game is that they are alllowed to .. I've been a member of this site now for some time. And I for one can tell you with out a doubt, there are "favorites" who can do / say near anything an get away with it. And .. if some one else said anything remotely similar to that.. they .. are banned (Yes, I fully expect to get a ban for speaking this known truth, which only proves my point.) so having said this, I can prolly kiss my Palladium account bye bye.

[Syndicate]

No seriously, why is the dimensional crossroads so dead set against super powers? ?

And races and power categories designed to bounce seamlessly between mdc and sdc worlds??

Demigods, godlings, mega heroes, immortals. I see lots of fan made stuff in games on rifts but posting about them on the forums, specifically this forum always degrade into a flaming/trolling mod tattleling fluckshow??

Yet the same people that are rude and say mean things on posts here are quite friendly and polite on other forums.

Please explain the one sidedeness going on here.

A fan of post apocalyptic settings and super heroes.

...wait...Rifts: Dimension Book 4...
Maybe the title of this thread should be "why are Rifts GMs so Anti-Super".

My apologies if anyone has suggested that before.

[Thom001]

No seriously, why is the dimensional crossroads so dead set against super powers? ?

And races and power categories designed to bounce seamlessly between mdc and sdc worlds??

Demigods, godlings, mega heroes, immortals. I see lots of fan made stuff in games on rifts but posting about them on the forums, specifically this forum always degrade into a flaming/trolling mod tattleling fluckshow??

Yet the same people that are rude and say mean things on posts here are quite friendly and polite on other forums.

Please explain the one sidedeness going on here.

A fan of post apocalyptic settings and super heroes.

One of the games we played was rifts occs and each character had powers from hu. It was really fun. I actually posted the details in the HU section of the forums under I think the thread is best game or something like that. Here, I'll copy and paste it for you.

It was in rifts but there was a woman with magnetism and glow bug powers who was a thief occ, a spy occ with blur, supervision thermal, and criminal intuition, a vagabond with sonic flight, supernatural strength, and afs plant (his character also had the insanity of power by association magical object and believed his powers came from a worn formerly deep purple fedora he owned), a female pre rifts history teacher with time travel powers (the gm and her sat down and modified time magic into a power for her) and a rogue scientist with giant and immovability.


Anyway it was great, the spy started out a separate, villain, selling secrets to the highest bidder. The magnetism thief was working for/with the spy in the beginning to find the scientist and steal his notes (he turned himself into a giant through experimentation), the vagabond was in prison for walking off with a towns sheriffs vehicle, and the giant rogue scientist was nursing the time traveler back to health after she suddenly appeared 15 feet above the ground and fell.

At the end we saved the recently time warped town of st. francisville, la from the invading horde. At the insistance of the time traveler we named ourselves the st. francisville sentinels (like the football team from the replacements...)

[Tor]

This thread confuses me because super-powers were introduced in CB1, there have been chars with such powers in books like Vampire Kingdoms and Mercenaries, and we are even told how much a super-hero slave costs in Atlantis.

[Ojalu]

Do I really need to roll up a Super character to demonstrate how powerful they can get?

No. An example of the worst case will not help settle the issue.

I think that everyone is aware that the power level of super powered characters varies wildly depending on the powers chosen and the house rules in play.

--flatline

I handle super powers this way in Rifts:

First: I only put broad brush strokes on the campaign world until I see the characters anyway.
Second: The group has to mesh. All the players have to "buy in" on all the characters. Usually circumvents problems and abuses.
Third: Fine, you have super powers. Did you think you were the only guy from Superworld who rifted in? (If you got 'em, so could "they")
Fourth: Let the game world take care of the "upstart". If the super is Bad Arse enough to upset the apple cart, then the power factions of the world will take notice, gather intel, assess the threat and its vulnerabilities/susceptibilities...and handle with extreme prejudice. Heck, the Story Arc resulting might be fun for all involved!

And, if all else fails, there's always the standby of "So you want to run a Super? Fine. Roll him up in front of me. You DID realize those charts on powers are by random assignment, right? Let's go!"

[Razzinold]

I'm not against someone playing a super if I GM a game, it's just not my personal style of game play.

Way back when I started gaming I pictured everything like mad max, death lands stuff like that. Ravaged earth but with a bit of weird tossed in the mix. Actually the show Defiance does a fairly good job of showing the destroyed earth and different cultures living with each other, now all you need is psionics and magic.

I probably don't like playing a super in Rifts because I'm not really a fan of magic and psinoics either.

I love the idea of cobbling together my equipment/vehicle, just trying to keep my self running long enough to get to the next town/job. I know some may see this as a very narrow view of the game, but like I said it is my view.

I think some GMs are against allowing supers because it's something they can't, or find it more difficult, to control. A GM can rob you of your credits, valuables, arms and armour. They can cast negate magic or have a nega pyschic around, but as far as I know there is no way to counter super powers as easy.

Feel free to jump in on that last point, for all I know there is a negate super power in Rifts and I'm not aware of it because it's something I don't play and none have any of my players.

With my old group the GMs brother always had powers, no matter the campaign, and the only time I rolled up a character with super powers is because we rolled out of the Skraypers book because we were fighting with the rebels and the game was set there instead of Rifts Earth.

[Nox Equites]

Some people seem to miss the fact that characters with super abilities are pretty much the definition of supernatural beings so Psi-stalkers can track them. Some GMs don't like the fact you can create a Super who can slaughter Juicers in melee and has no countervailing weakness. The munchkin with extraordinary speed, a minor ability, has freaking auto dodge at least one extra attack, and the crazy goes on from there. Do they have supernatural strength and or endurance so they don't need armor/can shred infantry with their bare hands? Sure you can give them some "you're freaky and stand out" traits but the powergamer isn't interested in social interaction anyway. A Juicer needs to be concerned about last call and has to visit civilization to top off his drug reservoir every few months so he/she can't just wander the wastes forever. The best way, as other have suggested, is to use the random charts and veto any absurd combinations. But many GMs are not interested in adding that extra complexity to their duties. Personally I roll up a super the way I roll up a Nightbane, letting the chaos of the dice give me something. It may not be what I expected, but that makes things fun.

[Nightmask]

Some people seem to miss the fact that characters with super abilities are pretty much the definition of supernatural beings so Psi-stalkers can track them. Some GMs don't like the fact you can create a Super who can slaughter Juicers in melee and has no countervailing weakness. The munchkin with extraordinary speed, a minor ability, has freaking auto dodge at least one extra attack, and the crazy goes on from there. Do they have supernatural strength and or endurance so they don't need armor/can shred infantry with their bare hands? Sure you can give them some "you're freaky and stand out" traits but the powergamer isn't interested in social interaction anyway. A Juicer needs to be concerned about last call and has to visit civilization to top off his drug reservoir every few months so he/she can't just wander the wastes forever. The best way, as other have suggested, is to use the random charts and veto any absurd combinations. But many GMs are not interested in adding that extra complexity to their duties. Personally I roll up a super the way I roll up a Nightbane, letting the chaos of the dice give me something. It may not be what I expected, but that makes things fun.

Uh no, characters with super-abilities aren't the definition of supernatural beings and nothing about them would mean that they're trackable by psi-stalkers. Only the Mega-hero is stated to be effectively a supernatural being in Rifts which would mean other supers like Mutants and Super-Soldiers are not.

[Starmage21]

The Conversation usually goes like this

I have 100 rifts books, with over 1000 rifts classes and you* (Impersonal You, ie what ever player i'm talking to at the moment) can't find one you want to play?
Why do you suppose that is?
Ok you don't want to have to rely on equipment, ok I have dozens of humans with magic psionics or special abilities why none of them?
Oh you don't want to rely on PPE or ISP, ok how about ...?
Oh you don't want to have a all the disadvantages that come with that class.
So essentially you want to be a Human with special abilities that are available to you at all time with no cost either mechanically or storyline based?
That is not what (my) Rifts is about.

As criss-crossed as Rifts Earth is with ley lines, PPE is NOT a problem. Playing mages is exactly the way to have a battery of powers that pretty much never run out.

The last time I made a glitter boy, I think they sit around with 8 attacks/melee, +7 to hit with the boom gun (dont forget the -5/-10 to hit within a certain range!), dealing an AVERAGE of 100MD per hit, plus deafness. Even with a bunch of super powers, I still dont think you can really challenge that, barring some of the really awesomely broken powers that everyone knows about.

[Nox Equites]

Some people seem to miss the fact that characters with super abilities are pretty much the definition of supernatural beings so Psi-stalkers can track them. Some GMs don't like the fact you can create a Super who can slaughter Juicers in melee and has no countervailing weakness. The munchkin with extraordinary speed, a minor ability, has freaking auto dodge at least one extra attack, and the crazy goes on from there. Do they have supernatural strength and or endurance so they don't need armor/can shred infantry with their bare hands? Sure you can give them some "you're freaky and stand out" traits but the powergamer isn't interested in social interaction anyway. A Juicer needs to be concerned about last call and has to visit civilization to top off his drug reservoir every few months so he/she can't just wander the wastes forever. The best way, as other have suggested, is to use the random charts and veto any absurd combinations. But many GMs are not interested in adding that extra complexity to their duties. Personally I roll up a super the way I roll up a Nightbane, letting the chaos of the dice give me something. It may not be what I expected, but that makes things fun.

Uh no, characters with super-abilities aren't the definition of supernatural beings and nothing about them would mean that they're trackable by psi-stalkers. Only the Mega-hero is stated to be effectively a supernatural being in Rifts which would mean other supers like Mutants and Super-Soldiers are not.

Why not? The Fire breathing, shape shifting, flying, dragon counts as supernatural (or creature of magic depending on source). The Human with the same abilities isn't? Is supernatural intrinsic to only beings from particular dimensions? Or is it only a quality of certain beings with certain powers? Is a priest really a man of magic? The source of their powers is some divinity and not necessarily magic, as the LLWs spells are. Are they trackable by Psi-hounds? This pretty much has to be house ruled as canon doesn't agree.

You can always fiat that any character with super abilities has them granted by the ambient magic of the setting as the excuse why they can be tracked by the Psi sniffer types. This even gives mages with anti-magic spells a fighting chance. Or have specific anti-super techniques get developed in response to excessive characters. Even having a Psi-slayer hunt down that juicy PPE rich super snack works wonders.

Still you have the potential to have a character who can fly coast to coast at speeds most vehicles in the setting can't match, and be invisible to sensors, if you aren't careful as a GM.

[Nightmask]

Some people seem to miss the fact that characters with super abilities are pretty much the definition of supernatural beings so Psi-stalkers can track them. Some GMs don't like the fact you can create a Super who can slaughter Juicers in melee and has no countervailing weakness. The munchkin with extraordinary speed, a minor ability, has freaking auto dodge at least one extra attack, and the crazy goes on from there. Do they have supernatural strength and or endurance so they don't need armor/can shred infantry with their bare hands? Sure you can give them some "you're freaky and stand out" traits but the powergamer isn't interested in social interaction anyway. A Juicer needs to be concerned about last call and has to visit civilization to top off his drug reservoir every few months so he/she can't just wander the wastes forever. The best way, as other have suggested, is to use the random charts and veto any absurd combinations. But many GMs are not interested in adding that extra complexity to their duties. Personally I roll up a super the way I roll up a Nightbane, letting the chaos of the dice give me something. It may not be what I expected, but that makes things fun.

Uh no, characters with super-abilities aren't the definition of supernatural beings and nothing about them would mean that they're trackable by psi-stalkers. Only the Mega-hero is stated to be effectively a supernatural being in Rifts which would mean other supers like Mutants and Super-Soldiers are not.

Why not? The Fire breathing, shape shifting, flying, dragon counts as supernatural (or creature of magic depending on source). The Human with the same abilities isn't? Is supernatural intrinsic to only beings from particular dimensions? Or is it only a quality of certain beings with certain powers? Is a priest really a man of magic? The source of their powers is some divinity and not necessarily magic, as the LLWs spells are. Are they trackable by Psi-hounds? This pretty much has to be house ruled as canon doesn't agree.

You can always fiat that any character with super abilities has them granted by the ambient magic of the setting as the excuse why they can be tracked by the Psi sniffer types. This even gives mages with anti-magic spells a fighting chance. Or have specific anti-super techniques get developed in response to excessive characters. Even having a Psi-slayer hunt down that juicy PPE rich super snack works wonders.

Still you have the potential to have a character who can fly coast to coast at speeds most vehicles in the setting can't match, and be invisible to sensors, if you aren't careful as a GM.

They aren't because they aren't, anymore than you can go 'well humans breathe, so do dogs, so humans and dogs are the same'. It's a false equivalency fallacy. A human that could do all that isn't a supernatural being just because some supernatural beings can do it too, since human being aren't normally supernatural one requires something that definitely says that they're no longer actually human and super-natural instead and having super-powers alone doesn't qualify. As already noted Mega-Heroes are explicitly noted as to qualify as supernatural beings, no other super is defined as such including those that have super-powers, which means super-powers in and of themselves don't qualify you as a supernatural being it requires more like the inexplicable qualities of the Mega-hero that pushes them beyond a normal super into the range of a supernatural being.

[Damian Magecraft]

Some people seem to miss the fact that characters with super abilities are pretty much the definition of supernatural beings so Psi-stalkers can track them. Some GMs don't like the fact you can create a Super who can slaughter Juicers in melee and has no countervailing weakness. The munchkin with extraordinary speed, a minor ability, has freaking auto dodge at least one extra attack, and the crazy goes on from there. Do they have supernatural strength and or endurance so they don't need armor/can shred infantry with their bare hands? Sure you can give them some "you're freaky and stand out" traits but the powergamer isn't interested in social interaction anyway. A Juicer needs to be concerned about last call and has to visit civilization to top off his drug reservoir every few months so he/she can't just wander the wastes forever. The best way, as other have suggested, is to use the random charts and veto any absurd combinations. But many GMs are not interested in adding that extra complexity to their duties. Personally I roll up a super the way I roll up a Nightbane, letting the chaos of the dice give me something. It may not be what I expected, but that makes things fun.

Uh no, characters with super-abilities aren't the definition of supernatural beings and nothing about them would mean that they're trackable by psi-stalkers. Only the Mega-hero is stated to be effectively a supernatural being in Rifts which would mean other supers like Mutants and Super-Soldiers are not.

Why not? The Fire breathing, shape shifting, flying, dragon counts as supernatural (or creature of magic depending on source). The Human with the same abilities isn't? Is supernatural intrinsic to only beings from particular dimensions? Or is it only a quality of certain beings with certain powers? Is a priest really a man of magic? The source of their powers is some divinity and not necessarily magic, as the LLWs spells are. Are they trackable by Psi-hounds? This pretty much has to be house ruled as canon doesn't agree.

You can always fiat that any character with super abilities has them granted by the ambient magic of the setting as the excuse why they can be tracked by the Psi sniffer types. This even gives mages with anti-magic spells a fighting chance. Or have specific anti-super techniques get developed in response to excessive characters. Even having a Psi-slayer hunt down that juicy PPE rich super snack works wonders.

Still you have the potential to have a character who can fly coast to coast at speeds most vehicles in the setting can't match, and be invisible to sensors, if you aren't careful as a GM.

They aren't because they aren't, anymore than you can go 'well humans breathe, so do dogs, so humans and dogs are the same'. It's a false equivalency fallacy. A human that could do all that isn't a supernatural being just because some supernatural beings can do it too, since human being aren't normally supernatural one requires something that definitely says that they're no longer actually human and super-natural instead and having super-powers alone doesn't qualify. As already noted Mega-Heroes are explicitly noted as to qualify as supernatural beings, no other super is defined as such including those that have super-powers, which means super-powers in and of themselves don't qualify you as a supernatural being it requires more like the inexplicable qualities of the Mega-hero that pushes them beyond a normal super into the range of a supernatural being.

I believe he is suggesting it as a possible work around for the powers to be allowed in the setting. He did say it was possible to fiat it as such.
Or are you suggesting that is not with the ability of a gm?

[IronWarrior]

i know this is an old thread but i'm going to add my two cents here. I created a "super-hero" for a rifts game and used some logic going about it. (as logical as you can be seeing as this is a game of imagination).
Feral
Nightstalking
ExtraOrdinary Physical Endurance
Heightened Sense of Smell
Healing Factor
This was still in keeping with the setting since she was a genetic abberation. Additionally i intentionally gave her an I.Q. of 3 and an M.A. of 7 and put the bonuses into M.E. giving her a strong will but a high animal intelligence.
Trying to create an interesting background for her i gave her the appearance of a half wolf half human hybrid and had her raised by the Seneca tribe of the Eastern Seaboard. The Wolf being an honored animal it fit.
What i did not do was give her any fetishes. That would be overkill and considering her I.Q. she wouldn't understand anyway. Thus i created a mutant animal hybrid that stalks supernatural predators. Her only weapons...a Steel Tree Knife and a Biomancy Bone Blade...good enough for hunting.
As for an O.C.C. ...Vagabond worked fine but i did have to remove some skills to stay in character.
Also she can understand several languages but can barely speak them as in only a word or two or three.
It is possible to have superheroes in a rifts setting as long as you are not trying to play a "Monty Haul" character. For those of you who remember AD&D under Gygax you know what I'm talking about.

[Mack]

Topic locked for necro-posting.