why is rifts so anti super??

[flatline]

Heroes Unlimited doesnt have lore skills. So unless your a mystic study good luck figuring out what your even fighting.

You don't need every character to have the appropriate lore skill. As long as one character in the party has the appropriate lore skill, he can pass the relevant details to his party members as appropriate. Also, if you're using CB1 rules to make your super powered character, several of those OCCs can get lore skills.

--flatline

[say652]

Heroes Unlimited doesnt have lore skills. So unless your a mystic study good luck figuring out what your even fighting.

You don't need every character to have the appropriate lore skill. As long as one character in the party has the appropriate lore skill, he can pass the relevant details to his party members as appropriate. Also, if you're using CB1 rules to make your super powered character, several of those OCCs can get lore skills.

--flatline

I actually dont allow cb1 supers. No super powers and rifts skills in my games, see even I have my limits. Lol

[flatline]

Heroes Unlimited doesnt have lore skills. So unless your a mystic study good luck figuring out what your even fighting.

You don't need every character to have the appropriate lore skill. As long as one character in the party has the appropriate lore skill, he can pass the relevant details to his party members as appropriate. Also, if you're using CB1 rules to make your super powered character, several of those OCCs can get lore skills.

--flatline

I actually dont allow cb1 supers. No super powers and rifts skills in my games, see even I have my limits. Lol

Suit yourself.

Our games were usually high power enough that OCCs like Rogue Scientist, Wilderness Scout, or Vagabond would never have been played without the super power option. That would have been a shame since those are the types of OCCs that add a lot of flavor to the game.

--flatline

[say652]

I limit supers to the skills prigrams and secondary skills from heroes unlimited. Adds in that whole "hey I got rifted here affect"
My reason. My super vagabond had lots of rifts earth skills and super powers. There was no real dtaw back to having three major and three minor super powers. Now without on world skills.....it adds un that element of.
Sure I can throw an apc but ynless I make a local friend I'm screwed.

[flatline]

I limit supers to the skills prigrams and secondary skills from heroes unlimited. Adds in that whole "hey I got rifted here affect"
My reason. My super vagabond had lots of rifts earth skills and super powers. There was no real dtaw back to having three major and three minor super powers. Now without on world skills.....it adds un that element of.
Sure I can throw an apc but ynless I make a local friend I'm screwed.

There's no inherent drawback to having psionics or magic or laser rifles, so I see no need to enforce drawbacks on characters with super powers. I consider the inability to gain new abilities as they level up to be limitation enough.

--flatline

[Nightmask]

Because some have a perception that somehow Super-powers as a whole are unbalancing, no matter the super-powers while insisting that all the obviously super-powered characters running around Rifts aren't somehow really in possession of super-powers even when they clearly are. You have creatures with high MDC, Regeneration, Supernatural PS, just to name a few things that are clearly super-powers with equivalent versions from the super-powers list yet people will insist that 'no those aren't super-powers because I don't allow super-powers in my game' when no they are super-powers really.

So you'll see things like the GM being fine with a Godling or hatchling Dragon or a Glitter Boy Pilot yet have a fit at the thought of a super-powered character like a super from Heroes Unlimited because 'well that's too powerful' even when the powers selected don't make the character any more powerful than said Godling, hatchling Dragon, or Glitter Boy or even less-so.

[say652]

Nightmask wins the award for the voice of reason.
Gold Star

[Mouser13]

Well I always thought it was more of a kid thing to do. All the groups I have played in where it was allowed had kids playing. Which is found to watch since they really take things that are powerfully/munckin.

Though it has corrupted me a bit and I have started using Aliens Unlimited for alot of d-bee races.

[Nightmask]

Well I always thought it was more of a kid thing to do. All the groups I have played in where it was allowed had kids playing. Which is found to watch since they really take things that are powerfully/munckin.

Though it has corrupted me a bit and I have started using Aliens Unlimited for alot of d-bee races.

Well again that's a perception issue, even though some kids do it doesn't mean it's a kids thing and an adult isn't acting an adult by doing it too. How many of us have had to deal with people going 'you like comic books/cartoons/science fiction/fantasy? But that's just for kids' and had to explain 'no it's not just for kids it's for adults too'? There's nothing kiddy about wanting to play a super-powered character (hero or otherwise), it's a common fantasy of people young and old (for those who can still let themselves have fantasies and haven't had it torn from them by life) so why wouldn't they want to play one as an RPG character? Why shouldn't they get to play the character when others are playing what they like? Everyone should get to have fun after all.

[flatline]

Well I always thought it was more of a kid thing to do. All the groups I have played in where it was allowed had kids playing. Which is found to watch since they really take things that are powerfully/munckin.

Though it has corrupted me a bit and I have started using Aliens Unlimited for alot of d-bee races.

The thing with super powers is that there is a huge variety of characters that can be made, especially if combat prowess isn't the primary goal of the build. Careful selection of powers can create a character that is extremely good at something, but usually at the cost of flexibility that less specialized characters typically have.

Most campaigns that I've played where I wasn't the token magic user, I played as a Super of some sort. I was never the primary combat character of the party and very often I had the smallest amount of MDC and weakest attacks. That's just how things went since I usually favor stealth and mobility over the ability to do or take damage.

--flatline

[say652]

I like ability to take damage. Dealing damage mid range is cool but I also consider being able to deal 10D6 alot of damage. But not all supers are combat monsters and not all Godlibg psionics are as creative and grrr-factoring with their abilities as memnock.

Truth be told. "Its a shoddy carpenter that blames his tools"

So if a super unbalances the game, then....

"You obviously weren't a good Captain Jack."
Davey Jones.

[Killer Cyborg]

Well I always thought it was more of a kid thing to do. All the groups I have played in where it was allowed had kids playing. Which is found to watch since they really take things that are powerfully/munckin.

Though it has corrupted me a bit and I have started using Aliens Unlimited for alot of d-bee races.

Well again that's a perception issue, even though some kids do it doesn't mean it's a kids thing and an adult isn't acting an adult by doing it too. How many of us have had to deal with people going 'you like comic books/cartoons/science fiction/fantasy? But that's just for kids' and had to explain 'no it's not just for kids it's for adults too'? There's nothing kiddy about wanting to play a super-powered character (hero or otherwise), it's a common fantasy of people young and old (for those who can still let themselves have fantasies and haven't had it torn from them by life) so why wouldn't they want to play one as an RPG character? Why shouldn't they get to play the character when others are playing what they like? Everyone should get to have fun after all.

I think he's saying that the way HU powers work in Rifts, they can get really munchy-- and often DO.
It's not that it's a common fantasy for kids or adults to have super-powered characters. It's that it's a common munchkin fantasy to play characters who have massive powers without any downsides to them.
So the HU powers are something that immature players often try to abuse.

That doesn't mean that those kinds of players are the ONLY kind to ever use super powers in Rifts, of course, just that that's the main category that he has personally seen.
If I'm interpreting him correctly.

[say652]

Hehe. I dont fear a sledgehammer like PowerSurge, master psionics in the hands of a seasoned player have derailed and screwed up more of my games than any unruly player i've ever had.

Its the players that no their characters abilities and use them to the maximum potential, thats who you gotta keep an eye on.

[Thinyser]

Partly because of this thread I decided to (if my players survive being kidnapped and can escape the dungeon) reward them with amulets that each bestow one minor super ability. They will be totally randomly rolled using the lists in the back of PU3. I pre rolled "door #2" options so if they get one that is totally useless (like something having to do with radio waves lets say in PFRPG, where my game is set) then they can pick door #2 which was also totally random but I made sure that it was something that could be used in PFRPG. I figure it will add some spice and they haven't gotten any good loot for a few sessions.

[Grell]

I don't like super powers, I don't like to bring in N&SS or BtS, rarely even PFRpg. I like to keep my settings separate. Period. I find the pole dickish too, it's geared as any response but a positive one indicates the voter is a moron or douche. Bias polls are not cool.

Agreed on all points.

As GM I know what is and isn't appropriate for any game I intend to run. Generally, I also like my settings separate and unique but that isn't to say I won't allow characters from other settings provided there's a good concept and it fits the planned adventure.

I like to run campaigns that involve the acquisition of power through gameplay. Characters from HU aren't usually appropriate options unless it is a proven character from one of my past games. Player trust is assumed because I screen who I invite to play in my games and don't run for strangers.

[say652]

And CAPTAIN Babosa sails away on the Black Pearl, yet again. Smiling Hector knows he's a good Captain.

[Slight001]

I could careless one way or the other. I like the idea of super human abilities far more then I do the palladium execution of said abilities. That said my players have unlocked access to super powered CS characters.

[Morik]

And CAPTAIN Babosa sails away on the Black Pearl, yet again. Smiling Hector knows he's a good Captain.

I don't think its right you're implying that only bad GM's won't allow super powers in their games. A good butcher knows how to trim the fat on a nice porterhouse steak.

The setting should feel like RIFTS. If a GM knows a super hero player would upset the setting than he has every right to not allow it. I had a player make a super hero once.

He said he never really felt apart of the world. Sure he could encase people in ice and fly, but he was always looking to the other players in the group and admiring how well their O.C.C.s meshed with the setting and lore of RIFTS.

They also got to pick their powers/abilities (you do this by picking a O.C.C. that looks fun). He had to roll randomly. Not only for his powers but his skill package. He was rifted from HU.

[Mech-Viper Prime]

Ahh one of these threads, hmmm, even if most palladium occs could be classified as low power super heroes

[flatline]

They also got to pick their powers/abilities (you do this by picking a O.C.C. that looks fun). He had to roll randomly. Not only for his powers but his skill package. He was rifted from HU.

Well there's your problem...

--flatline

[say652]

My point is, its your ship. Captain as you see fit. But mutiny does happen.

[Killer Cyborg]

They also got to pick their powers/abilities (you do this by picking a O.C.C. that looks fun). He had to roll randomly. Not only for his powers but his skill package. He was rifted from HU.

Well there's your problem...

--flatline

As a near universal rule, any time anybody in my old group rolled randomly for powers, they'd end up with Underwater Abilities.

[Grell]

My point is, its your ship. Captain as you see fit. But mutiny does happen.

Most of my players also GM their own adventures with many of the same people more or less, so mutiny is never a concern. If someone doesn't prefer the way I "captain my ship" and wants to leave, I encourage them to do so. Chances are I'm not enjoying them as a player either, so why should both of us suffer?

[say652]

They also got to pick their powers/abilities (you do this by picking a O.C.C. that looks fun). He had to roll randomly. Not only for his powers but his skill package. He was rifted from HU.

Well there's your problem...

--flatline

As a near universal rule, any time anybody in my old group rolled randomly for powers, they'd end up with Underwater Abilities.

My favorite minor power!!

[taalismn]

My point is, its your ship. Captain as you see fit. But mutiny does happen.

That's what scuttling charges are for(and exclusive access to the only lifeboat).

[say652]

I stand by my original statement.
Supers are not game unbalancing.

I also realized I too set limits. I limit a supers skills to heroes unlimited, imma half to expand to include aliens unlimited as well.

[eliakon]

I stand by my original statement.
Supers are not game unbalancing.

I also realized I too set limits. I limit a supers skills to heroes unlimited, imma half to expand to include aliens unlimited as well.

SOME supers are not game unbalancing. SOME are. Which is probably why some GMs simply avoid the problem of having to micro-manage their players character creation and ban/limit them wholesale. As for why they are not more common in the books, that's simple. 1) Palladium has been trying to do the whole 'separated IPs for licensing' thing. So by limiting the amount of cross over they limit cross licensing issues. And 2) The rules for supers take up most of an entire rule book. So its easier for GMs who just have rifts stuff to handle the occasional super that shows up if all its rules are self contained (like the guy in Mercenaries, or the Australian Mutants). That way to play rifts you are not required to buy another base book. You can buy that book though. And for those that do, there are lots of opportunities for those super powers to be used including several canon classes that have access to super powers. Its just that the books won't make them the fore front since that would be unfair to all the non-HU gamers in the line.

[say652]

I feel psionic powers are game unbalancing.
But ideal with it, dont ban them.
Because I'm not a banner. But yea more of my adventures and ideas have been destroyed by psionics.

[eliakon]

I feel psionic powers are game unbalancing.
But ideal with it, dont ban them.
Because I'm not a banner. But yea more of my adventures and ideas have been destroyed by psionics.

Which is why point 2 is there If psi was only found in a different game like then there would likely be a lot less of it in Rifts
And if you have issues with certain psi powers destroying games then perhaps you should talk to your players about not selecting them...or not its up to you. *shrugs*
Depending on the game I may not ban anything....or I might have a list a couple dozen pages long of things that are not allowed. It all depends on the game that is going to be run, and what the group wants out of that game. That's why I am the GM, I get the job of trying to balance all the factors so that everyone will have fun. Sometimes some, or all of the super powers have to get sacrificed for that, some times not. But since I have all the HU books its easier for me to make those calls than some of my friends who do not have all the books. For them they often have to restrict super powers simply because they don't have the books needed to run them.

[say652]

Magic is slow. Cool.
Supers are usually bricks or blasters. No problem
Psionics. Ugh.

[say652]

I feel psionic powers are game unbalancing.
But ideal with it, dont ban them.
Because I'm not a banner. But yea more of my adventures and ideas have been destroyed by psionics.

Why is a issue if a gm says no to super powers? Why are you say adimint that all be allowed? You seem to advocate that all game master must conform to a signal idealogy that all is fair.

I feel I'm not a good Captain if I dont stand by the universal role playing system.
But that is just me. I allow fan races, blackvault powers, new magic spells, new psionics.
After ten plus years a Rifts Gm, the only thing ive ever had an issue with is psionics. I feel psionic powers are broken and over powered.
Examples.
My hero has a bazillion mdc. Cool roll your streetwise. I don't have that. ok then trust me.

I summon a balrog. Ok. Four hours later (dont know ritual times off the top of my head) the badguys are long gone, but you and Balrog do play an interesting game of chess.

I know when I'm in danger, can operate any machine, control minds, move stuff with my mind and create weapons.......

[taalismn]

Magic is slow. Cool.
Supers are usually bricks or blasters. No problem
Psionics. Ugh.

It's the idea that somebody in the room can, without having to gesture in the air and speak an encantation, or hold up their fist and power up, can still make your head explode, right?

[Nightmask]

I stand by my original statement.
Supers are not game unbalancing.

I also realized I too set limits. I limit a supers skills to heroes unlimited, imma half to expand to include aliens unlimited as well.

SOME supers are not game unbalancing. SOME are. Which is probably why some GMs simply avoid the problem of having to micro-manage their players character creation and ban/limit them wholesale. As for why they are not more common in the books, that's simple. 1) Palladium has been trying to do the whole 'separated IPs for licensing' thing. So by limiting the amount of cross over they limit cross licensing issues. And 2) The rules for supers take up most of an entire rule book. So its easier for GMs who just have rifts stuff to handle the occasional super that shows up if all its rules are self contained (like the guy in Mercenaries, or the Australian Mutants). That way to play rifts you are not required to buy another base book. You can buy that book though. And for those that do, there are lots of opportunities for those super powers to be used including several canon classes that have access to super powers. Its just that the books won't make them the fore front since that would be unfair to all the non-HU gamers in the line.

I haven't seen too many GM on here who don't micromanage from looking at their posts, given the diversity of the game they in general have to go over everything from their players to know what they can and can't do so it's hardly adding much of anything including super-powers. Again much that's allowed is no different than allowing in a super-powered character yet the super-powered character gets rejected because 'oh no you have super-powers!' as if somehow that makes their MDC and supernatural Strength different than the MDC and supernatural Strength they're allowing from that hatchling Dragon.

[say652]

Magic is slow. Cool.
Supers are usually bricks or blasters. No problem
Psionics. Ugh.

It's the idea that somebody in the room can, without having to gesture in the air and speak an encantation, or hold up their fist and power up, can still make your head explode, right?

I also shop palladin steele, an used the gold lions I thought were so awesome. Still may add in more she-martians. Lol.

Back to the topic. Psionics are the swiss army knife of characters, the bargain basement whole sale store of cheese.

I kinda hate psionics. But I allow people to play them.

[Hotrod]

I chose option four.
Because I like random craziness from other settings that just falls out of a Rift because it stops the game setting from getting stale.

That's not option four of your poll. I think you're talking about option 5:

my poll to gather info and process why

(1) Scared of that which is different much??
(2) Because I just don't want to ruin nonexistent game balance.
(3) I didn't come up with the idea so its wrong.
(4) I just like to insult people with my superior intellect.
(5) I like originality and support random craziness from other settings because it keeps the game from getting stale.

(numbers in parenthesis inserted for clarity)

Incidentally, if you're interested in having a civil conversation driven by a poll, I suggest that you rephrase the options so that they don't question the motives of those taking the poll. The implication of your poll is that anyone who doesn't agree with you is either:
1. Scared of anything different.
2. Stupidly clinging to an absurd ideal.
3. Unwilling to tolerate game components that aren't their own invention.
4. Arrogant and condescending.
...Or option 5: they're cool and original and fun, so of course they agree with you!

If you want to avoid insulting anyone who isn't in lock step with your own opinion, I recommend rephrasing the poll to something like this:

Question: Do you like using content from Heroes Unlimited in your Rifts Character Creation process?
Option 1: Yes, I love it!
Option 2: Yes, but only parts of it, due to game balance concerns.
Option 3: Yes, but only parts of it, due to campaign/setting concerns.
Option 3: No. I find it thematically inappropriate for my campaigns.
Option 4: No. I find it tends to unbalance the game..
Option 5: Other (please explain)

This offers similar options and motivations to your original poll, but doesn't force people who don't agree with you into saying that they're either cowardly, stupid, intolerant, or a jerk. It also leaves the door open to people who don't neatly fall into the categories you define. The "other" responses in polls are quite often the most interesting and fun to read.

[Nightmask]

I chose option four.
Because I like random craziness from other settings that just falls out of a Rift because it stops the game setting from getting stale.

That's not option four of your poll. I think you're talking about option 5:

my poll to gather info and process why

(1) Scared of that which is different much??
(2) Because I just don't want to ruin nonexistent game balance.
(3) I didn't come up with the idea so its wrong.
(4) I just like to insult people with my superior intellect.
(5) I like originality and support random craziness from other settings because it keeps the game from getting stale.

(numbers in parenthesis inserted for clarity)

Incidentally, if you're interested in having a civil conversation driven by a poll, I suggest that you rephrase the options so that they don't question the motives of those taking the poll. The implication of your poll is that anyone who doesn't agree with you is either:
1. Scared of anything different.
2. Stupidly clinging to an absurd ideal.
3. Unwilling to tolerate game components that aren't their own invention.
4. Arrogant and condescending.
...Or option 5: they're cool and original and fun, so of course they agree with you!

If you want to avoid insulting anyone who isn't in lock step with your own opinion, I recommend rephrasing the poll to something like this:

Question: Do you like using content from Heroes Unlimited in your Rifts Character Creation process?
Option 1: Yes, I love it!
Option 2: Yes, but only parts of it, due to game balance concerns.
Option 3: Yes, but only parts of it, due to campaign/setting concerns.
Option 3: No. I find it thematically inappropriate for my campaigns.
Option 4: No. I find it tends to unbalance the game..
Option 5: Other (please explain)

This offers similar options and motivations to your original poll, but doesn't force people who don't agree with you into saying that they're either cowardly, stupid, intolerant, or a jerk. It also leaves the door open to people who don't neatly fall into the categories you define. The "other" responses in polls are quite often the most interesting and fun to read.

I like how you rephrase things there Hotrod, it generates a far more neutral poll that removes bias from the question and the responses. I'd invite you to 'fix' the poll someone put on another site (basically yes/no of 'oh yes you're so right' vs 'you'd be a terrible person selecting no because then you're defending criminals) but he's quite uninterested in a non-biased poll.

[The Beast]

I chose option four.
Because I like random craziness from other settings that just falls out of a Rift because it stops the game setting from getting stale.

That's not option four of your poll. I think you're talking about option 5:

my poll to gather info and process why

(1) Scared of that which is different much??
(2) Because I just don't want to ruin nonexistent game balance.
(3) I didn't come up with the idea so its wrong.
(4) I just like to insult people with my superior intellect.
(5) I like originality and support random craziness from other settings because it keeps the game from getting stale.

(numbers in parenthesis inserted for clarity)

Incidentally, if you're interested in having a civil conversation driven by a poll, I suggest that you rephrase the options so that they don't question the motives of those taking the poll. The implication of your poll is that anyone who doesn't agree with you is either:
1. Scared of anything different.
2. Stupidly clinging to an absurd ideal.
3. Unwilling to tolerate game components that aren't their own invention.
4. Arrogant and condescending.
...Or option 5: they're cool and original and fun, so of course they agree with you!

If you want to avoid insulting anyone who isn't in lock step with your own opinion, I recommend rephrasing the poll to something like this:

Question: Do you like using content from Heroes Unlimited in your Rifts Character Creation process?
Option 1: Yes, I love it!
Option 2: Yes, but only parts of it, due to game balance concerns.
Option 3: Yes, but only parts of it, due to campaign/setting concerns.
Option 3: No. I find it thematically inappropriate for my campaigns.
Option 4: No. I find it tends to unbalance the game..
Option 5: Other (please explain)

This offers similar options and motivations to your original poll, but doesn't force people who don't agree with you into saying that they're either cowardly, stupid, intolerant, or a jerk. It also leaves the door open to people who don't neatly fall into the categories you define. The "other" responses in polls are quite often the most interesting and fun to read.

I would totally participate in this thread had it been worded that way to begin with.

[say652]

I started a new undickish thread. I instead ask your favorite character occ/pcc/rcc

[DhAkael]

-Yawn- I've been bitten HARD by the 'Supers' I've allowed in my games...but you know what, I've also had FUN with some as well.
ALL depends on the player, the game-style, and particular powerscale being used by the GM. Honestly, those who are being small minded prigs about "OH HELL no!" about letting supers in... I draw your attention to the aformentioned Sea-titans, Demi & Godling and heck, the bloody TITAN JUICER.
You don't want supers in your games? *nod* Fair... legit cop-out... but you should then eliminate 90% of the D-bees aliens and supernatural RCC & OCC's as well from the menu.
Just saying.

[Syndicate]

....argh...I feel compelled to respond.

Here are a few reasons I have RARELY allowed "Super powered" characters in my games:

1) Can obviously get just a bit unbalancing (depending on power set)
2) It seems to promote a certain amount of "player laziness" as these characters rarely have a beginning backstory
3) I didn't buy 97% of the Rifts books to have some one say "I'd like to play one of these because I can't find anything else I like".

I've run several Heros Unlimited games, and own 6-7 books, but as it has been stated before...setting "flavor" is a concern usually as well.

*Exception* If I have a player that I know to be an excellent player/gamer...and he requests to play a super-hero with a well defined backstory...I'll almost certainly let him play it (same general restrictions I'd have for a Cosmo-Knight...which is a super-hero in my eyes anyway).

[Eclipse]

Because super powers not only allow combinations that are quite powerful compared to most rifts classes, but they tend not to be limited by points e.g. as per psionics being limited by ISP and magic by PPE. They just keep trucking, so they're harder to either keep under control by the GM or they inspire jealousy from those who would otherwise be happy with their Rifts-specific characters. At least that's what seems to be the possible explanation.

[Nightmask]

Because super powers not only allow combinations that are quite powerful compared to most rifts classes, but they tend not to be limited by points e.g. as per psionics being limited by ISP and magic by PPE. They just keep trucking, so they're harder to either keep under control by the GM or they inspire jealousy from those who would otherwise be happy with their Rifts-specific characters. At least that's what seems to be the possible explanation.

I'm not seeing where this obsession with these limits, that somehow a character should have to be spending things and restricted like by requiring spending ISP or PPE to get anywhere, comes from. Going by the general complaints of selection I've seen stuff like MDC, supernatural PS, and Flight are common features of many races and OCC in Rifts and hardly limited in needing to spend something like PPE. A non-native super is going to be limited by his lack of knowledge about the world which will make things more dangerous for him and have other issues to worry about, limitations that perhaps are just being missed in the rush to condemn super-powers specifically rather than to look at them objectively compared to the setting.

[Killer Cyborg]

Because super powers not only allow combinations that are quite powerful compared to most rifts classes, but they tend not to be limited by points e.g. as per psionics being limited by ISP and magic by PPE. They just keep trucking, so they're harder to either keep under control by the GM or they inspire jealousy from those who would otherwise be happy with their Rifts-specific characters. At least that's what seems to be the possible explanation.

I'm not seeing where this obsession with these limits, that somehow a character should have to be spending things and restricted like by requiring spending ISP or PPE to get anywhere, comes from. Going by the general complaints of selection I've seen stuff like MDC, supernatural PS, and Flight are common features of many races and OCC in Rifts and hardly limited in needing to spend something like PPE.

Flip that logic around and look at it for a moment.
IF native Rifts OCCs/RCCs are just as good as Supers, then why feel the need to play Supers?
Don't tell me that it's always just because of role-playing reasons like wanting a specific background. The fact is, super-powered characters are often more powerful than Rifts native classes, and they don't have any of the inherent downsides.

If you really want specifics, pick a Rifts race/class that you think is equal to an average character with super powers, and we can do a comparison/contrast.

A non-native super is going to be limited by his lack of knowledge about the world which will make things more dangerous for him and have other issues to worry about, limitations that perhaps are just being missed in the rush to condemn super-powers specifically rather than to look at them objectively compared to the setting.

Sure, but a native super is NOT going to be limited that way.
And a non-native NON-Super IS going to be limited that way.
Being familiar with the setting is a factor that's independent of having super powers.

[Killer Cyborg]

You want a comparison:?
fine.
The Glitterboy

Limited ammo (though not as much as it used to be), insane repair bills, and a main weapon that messes up the other PCs in combat.
Not to mention the unwieldy size that prevents it from being used in any number of situations and settings.

The Baby Dragon hatchling

A supernatural creature that will be attacked by the CS on sight, and actively hunted by Psi-Stalkers (CS or not).
Also, they have extremely limited skill selections.

the Full Conversion combat Cyborg

Expensive repair from limited sources, simulated sense of touch, limited ammunition.

The New post SOT Cyberknight.

lol
Yeah, they're possibly the best comparison. They're effectively no longer just normal humans with limited psionics and cybernetics, and are instead a new, crappy breed of super-human.
But I see that as a better reason to scrap the new CKs than to allow unfiltered Supers.
And if you really want, I can still go through it and point out how Supers can easily be superior.

[Killer Cyborg]

Do I really need to roll up a Super character to demonstrate how powerful they can get?

[Thinyser]

Do I really need to roll up a Super character to demonstrate how powerful they can get?

There is another thread for that See viewtopic.php?f=7&t=143696
2 majors and 3 minors. Go!

[say652]

I limit a super by things like.
Skills from heroes unlimited.
Very little knowledge of energy weapons.
Braka braka braka. See that all day. Pew pew pew. Run!!

Its pretty much impossible to be game unbalancing in rifts. Just cant happen.

"And then a reacher from the deep towers over the port city...."

"You awake in a strange place surrounded by dragons gargoyles and weird three eyed bugmen, after watching one of the heavily armored eight foot fiants tear off another prisoners arm. You decide compliance is the way to go..."

Roll a save vs magic.... yup they got you with a sticky carpet.....

Save vs psionics....you suddenly are paralyzed...

And dont have me go all Temporal or start with the phase powers....

[flatline]

Do I really need to roll up a Super character to demonstrate how powerful they can get?

No. An example of the worst case will not help settle the issue.

I think that everyone is aware that the power level of super powered characters varies wildly depending on the powers chosen and the house rules in play.

--flatline

[Killer Cyborg]

Do I really need to roll up a Super character to demonstrate how powerful they can get?

No. An example of the worst case will not help settle the issue.

I think that everyone is aware that the power level of super powered characters varies wildly depending on the powers chosen and the house rules in play.

--flatline

People have seemed oblivious to the potential power scale differences.
So I don't think we're all on the same page there.

[say652]

In the megahero section.

Not everybody wants to play a flying superhuman battering ram thats nigh invulnerable.
Characters such as these often become boring and not much fun to play.....