Chi users in RIFTS?

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Re: Chi users in RIFTS?

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

eliakon wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:With the publishing of the Mystic China book, it was established that Chi is just another stat for chars. This is because All Three main mystic energies (PPE-ISP-Chi) are mentioned as being separate (discreet from each other) in the same book.
[With Bio-E being a fourth.]

just another stat for characters...In That Universe. It still may or may not exist in any OTHER universe/line. And in fact it takes an affirmative act (I have added Chi, since Chi is not a default) to make it exist.

MC just clarifies how Chi works for the MC/N&SS world anyway. But yes, its an additional 'stat' that, if Chi exists, exists in all, or at least all living, things. Which is great...if its part of the game. But just as PPE still theoretically exists in RT, even though there is no magic, its not relevant since....there is no magic. Chi may, theoretically, exist in Rifts, but if there is no way to detect/use/manipulate/whatever it....its just as relevant as PPE in Robotech.


And the HU2MB indicates that for chars with MAFs, Chi & PPE & ISP are also distinct types of mystic energies, by, in the Ancient Master special training that Dedicated MA's are made to that Class's text w/o any changes to the Chi Powers, and that there are PPE and ISP.

In the RCB1 & RCB1r the text about Chi powers says there is not any change to that Chi is it's own mystic power type.

ATB2 Has Text Acknowledging all four of the energies.

NS/NB: so far there is no text ether way about Chi in any NS/NB book.
Same for BTS2, & PFRPG books (as far as I can remember). Even though there are inclusion notes for PF1 in the N&S book

RT2 there is no cross dimension traffic from the megaverse by licensing contracts. Thus the RT@ setting is the only setting where Chi, PPE, Bio-E and ISP are not a part of the setting.

So that is four settings which has Chi as one of the mystic powers, two settings with no text ether way about it, and only one where it can't be

dead settings: SF, TMNT, Recon, Mechinoids. I do not recall anything mentioning Chi in these books. However, there are inclusion notes to TMNT in the N&S book. There is a recon adventure in a rifter that does include opponents with chi powers. SF & Mech., there is no text ether way.

So two of the three major PB settings (R,HU,PF) have text acknowledging that there is chi works in those settings as per the N&S/MC setting has it, and one with no text ether way about Chi in it's books.

All of that just off the top of my head. So while I do simplify this so everybody can understand what I'm saying, I do know said details which support what I am saying and the details others are taking to support their disagreement to what I'm saying.

As per for Rifts, Chi is a part of the setting and is unchanged from how it is depicted in the N&S and MC books.

As per the HU2 setting, All relevant text indicated that there is chi in the setting and it is used as per depicted in the N&S and MC books.
Last edited by drewkitty ~..~ on Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chi users in RIFTS?

Unread post by Tor »

Colt47 wrote:some monsters have basically no official rules on how Chi attacks effect them. It's utterly devastating vs Vampires and other beings that depend on regeneration to be a threat
If it helps, MC paints a pretty clear picture of undead creatures being negative chi beings... so vampires would basically be unaffected by negative chi attacks and their regeneration would not be in danger.

On the other hand, that advanced chi ability where you generate light (or was it sunlight?) might be a problem there, but no worse than Globe of Daylight I assume.

The whole 'chi damage doesn't convert to MD, so you need to inflict 100 to inflict 1' factor tends to keep chi balanced in Rifts in spite of its potential for massive quantities, but it can be pretty rough on vampires, being HP beings. Of course, like any SDC being, a vampire can wear MDC body armor if the whole d4+100 stake kata is getting them down.
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Re: Chi users in RIFTS?

Unread post by Colt47 »

Tor wrote:
Colt47 wrote:some monsters have basically no official rules on how Chi attacks effect them. It's utterly devastating vs Vampires and other beings that depend on regeneration to be a threat
If it helps, MC paints a pretty clear picture of undead creatures being negative chi beings... so vampires would basically be unaffected by negative chi attacks and their regeneration would not be in danger.

On the other hand, that advanced chi ability where you generate light (or was it sunlight?) might be a problem there, but no worse than Globe of Daylight I assume.

The whole 'chi damage doesn't convert to MD, so you need to inflict 100 to inflict 1' factor tends to keep chi balanced in Rifts in spite of its potential for massive quantities, but it can be pretty rough on vampires, being HP beings. Of course, like any SDC being, a vampire can wear MDC body armor if the whole d4+100 stake kata is getting them down.


Actually, you can stop vampire regeneration through using positive Chi, but it's a bit more round about then using negative chi on living beings.
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Re: Chi users in RIFTS?

Unread post by Nightmask »

Colt47 wrote:
Tor wrote:
Colt47 wrote:some monsters have basically no official rules on how Chi attacks effect them. It's utterly devastating vs Vampires and other beings that depend on regeneration to be a threat
If it helps, MC paints a pretty clear picture of undead creatures being negative chi beings... so vampires would basically be unaffected by negative chi attacks and their regeneration would not be in danger.

On the other hand, that advanced chi ability where you generate light (or was it sunlight?) might be a problem there, but no worse than Globe of Daylight I assume.

The whole 'chi damage doesn't convert to MD, so you need to inflict 100 to inflict 1' factor tends to keep chi balanced in Rifts in spite of its potential for massive quantities, but it can be pretty rough on vampires, being HP beings. Of course, like any SDC being, a vampire can wear MDC body armor if the whole d4+100 stake kata is getting them down.


Actually, you can stop vampire regeneration through using positive Chi, but it's a bit more round about then using negative chi on living beings.


Easier to use the Chi abilities and spells that control things of negative chi since Vampires are creatures of negative chi. The advanced positive chi ability to generate sunlight though is far far superior to Globe of Daylight, it burns vampires like it does anything else burned by sunlight on a bright sunny day and they aren't likely to try and face off against someone using that ability directly.
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Re: Chi users in RIFTS?

Unread post by eliakon »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
eliakon wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:With the publishing of the Mystic China book, it was established that Chi is just another stat for chars. This is because All Three main mystic energies (PPE-ISP-Chi) are mentioned as being separate (discreet from each other) in the same book.
[With Bio-E being a fourth.]

just another stat for characters...In That Universe. It still may or may not exist in any OTHER universe/line. And in fact it takes an affirmative act (I have added Chi, since Chi is not a default) to make it exist.

MC just clarifies how Chi works for the MC/N&SS world anyway. But yes, its an additional 'stat' that, if Chi exists, exists in all, or at least all living, things. Which is great...if its part of the game. But just as PPE still theoretically exists in RT, even though there is no magic, its not relevant since....there is no magic. Chi may, theoretically, exist in Rifts, but if there is no way to detect/use/manipulate/whatever it....its just as relevant as PPE in Robotech.


And the HU2MB indicates that for chars with MAFs, Chi & PPE & ISP are also distinct types of mystic energies, by, in the Ancient Master special training that Dedicated MA's are made to that Class's text w/o any changes to the Chi Powers, and that there are PPE and ISP.

In the RCB1 & RCB1r the text about Chi powers says there is not any change to that Chi is it's own mystic power type.

NS/NB: so far there is no text ether way about Chi in any NS/NB book.
Same for BTS2, ATB2, & PFRPG books (as far as I can remember). Even though there are inclusion notes for PF1 in the N&S book

RT2 there is no cross dimension traffic from the megaverse by licensing contracts. Thus the RT@ setting is the only setting where Chi, PPE, Bio-E and ISP are not a part of the setting.

So that is three settings which has Chi as one of the mystic powers, three settings with no text ether way about it, and only one where it can't be

dead settings: SF, TMNT, Recon, Mechinoids. I do not recall anything mentioning Chi in these books. However, there are inclusion notes to TMNT in the N&S book. There is a recon adventure in a rifter that does include opponents with chi powers. SF & Mech., there is no text ether way.

So two of the three major PB settings (R,HU,PF) have text acknowledging that there is chi works in those settings as per the N&S/MC setting has it, and one with no text ether way about Chi in it's books.

All of that just off the top of my head. So while I do simplify this so everybody can understand what I'm saying, I do know said details which support what I am saying and the details others are taking to support their disagreement to what I'm saying.

As per for Rifts, Chi is a part of the setting and is unchanged from how it is depicted in the N&S and MC books.

As per the HU2 setting, All relevant text indicated that there is chi in the setting and it is used as per depicted in the N&S and MC books.

No, Chi can be ADDED to HU and Rifts. They have CONVERSION notes for COMBINING WITH N&SS. The N&SS style Chi does not exist as a base state in those books, unless you can site a specific book/page that says, explicitly, that this kind of Chi exists as a BASE state, not a Conversion, not an Alternate rule, but a base state.
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Re: Chi users in RIFTS?

Unread post by Nightmask »

eliakon wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
eliakon wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:With the publishing of the Mystic China book, it was established that Chi is just another stat for chars. This is because All Three main mystic energies (PPE-ISP-Chi) are mentioned as being separate (discreet from each other) in the same book.
[With Bio-E being a fourth.]

just another stat for characters...In That Universe. It still may or may not exist in any OTHER universe/line. And in fact it takes an affirmative act (I have added Chi, since Chi is not a default) to make it exist.

MC just clarifies how Chi works for the MC/N&SS world anyway. But yes, its an additional 'stat' that, if Chi exists, exists in all, or at least all living, things. Which is great...if its part of the game. But just as PPE still theoretically exists in RT, even though there is no magic, its not relevant since....there is no magic. Chi may, theoretically, exist in Rifts, but if there is no way to detect/use/manipulate/whatever it....its just as relevant as PPE in Robotech.


And the HU2MB indicates that for chars with MAFs, Chi & PPE & ISP are also distinct types of mystic energies, by, in the Ancient Master special training that Dedicated MA's are made to that Class's text w/o any changes to the Chi Powers, and that there are PPE and ISP.

In the RCB1 & RCB1r the text about Chi powers says there is not any change to that Chi is it's own mystic power type.

NS/NB: so far there is no text ether way about Chi in any NS/NB book.
Same for BTS2, ATB2, & PFRPG books (as far as I can remember). Even though there are inclusion notes for PF1 in the N&S book

RT2 there is no cross dimension traffic from the megaverse by licensing contracts. Thus the RT@ setting is the only setting where Chi, PPE, Bio-E and ISP are not a part of the setting.

So that is three settings which has Chi as one of the mystic powers, three settings with no text ether way about it, and only one where it can't be

dead settings: SF, TMNT, Recon, Mechinoids. I do not recall anything mentioning Chi in these books. However, there are inclusion notes to TMNT in the N&S book. There is a recon adventure in a rifter that does include opponents with chi powers. SF & Mech., there is no text ether way.

So two of the three major PB settings (R,HU,PF) have text acknowledging that there is chi works in those settings as per the N&S/MC setting has it, and one with no text ether way about Chi in it's books.

All of that just off the top of my head. So while I do simplify this so everybody can understand what I'm saying, I do know said details which support what I am saying and the details others are taking to support their disagreement to what I'm saying.

As per for Rifts, Chi is a part of the setting and is unchanged from how it is depicted in the N&S and MC books.

As per the HU2 setting, All relevant text indicated that there is chi in the setting and it is used as per depicted in the N&S and MC books.


No, Chi can be ADDED to HU and Rifts. They have CONVERSION notes for COMBINING WITH N&SS. The N&SS style Chi does not exist as a base state in those books, unless you can site a specific book/page that says, explicitly, that this kind of Chi exists as a BASE state, not a Conversion, not an Alternate rule, but a base state.


You really can't say that chi doesn't exist in either, just because it's not listed doesn't mean it doesn't exist just that it's not used as part of the general rules because no one knows how to use it for it to matter. Characters from other worlds however that DO know how to use it have no problems with using and exploiting it when they end up in those settings, if one wants to have some natives who also know well that's not a problem either since chi is everywhere and the rules are simple and easy enough to understand on determining how much everyone has and how to use it.
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Re: Chi users in RIFTS?

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

eliakon wrote:No, Chi can be ADDED to HU and Rifts. They have CONVERSION notes for COMBINING WITH N&SS. The N&SS style Chi does not exist as a base state in those books, unless you can site a specific book/page that says, explicitly, that this kind of Chi exists as a BASE state, not a Conversion, not an Alternate rule, but a base state.

The Inclusion notes as I talked about are in both the RCB1's and the HU2MB, in the already mentioned places.

Besides you need to pay attention to my word choices. I did pick my words quite carefully when saying what the supporting text says.
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Re: Chi users in RIFTS?

Unread post by eliakon »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
eliakon wrote:No, Chi can be ADDED to HU and Rifts. They have CONVERSION notes for COMBINING WITH N&SS. The N&SS style Chi does not exist as a base state in those books, unless you can site a specific book/page that says, explicitly, that this kind of Chi exists as a BASE state, not a Conversion, not an Alternate rule, but a base state.

The Inclusion notes as I talked about are in both the RCB1's and the HU2MB, in the already mentioned places.

Besides you need to pay attention to my word choices. I did pick my words quite carefully when saying what the supporting text says.

I was paying attention.
You said that HU had Chi, and you said that Rifts has Chi
They don't. They have notes that allow them to be added at the GMs will, and notes on how to do that.
As they come though, they do not have Chi.
let me be clearer
Chi canonically exists only in N&SS. There are conversion notes on how to go about bringing it to other games if that is desired. BUT it is not CANON. IE there is nothing in HU that says that the default HU universe has Chi. It can be optionally added, but its not the default setting.

If you have an EXPLICIT book/page citation to the contrary I would be interested in seeing it
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Re: Chi users in RIFTS?

Unread post by Tor »

Colt47 wrote:you can stop vampire regeneration through using positive Chi, but it's a bit more round about then using negative chi on living beings.

Which ability does this, the one in MC that projects light which I mentioned? You can't launch positive chi attacks like you can negative ones just by having a power and getting it automatically, after all.

eliakon wrote:No, Chi can be ADDED to HU and Rifts. They have CONVERSION notes for COMBINING WITH N&SS. The N&SS style Chi does not exist as a base state in those books, unless you can site a specific book/page that says, explicitly, that this kind of Chi exists as a BASE state, not a Conversion, not an Alternate rule, but a base state.

Not being mentioned in a book doesn't mean it doesn't exist in that universe. Rules are given for what seems to be important to gameplay, they are not the end-all of reality. Much as pooping rules are not considered important enough to include in a main book, chi rules (or PPE rules) were not considered important enough for Robotech or TMNT and the like. Yet a Megaversal precedent exists that indicates these are properties of these beings.

eliakon wrote:You said that HU had Chi, and you said that Rifts has Chi. They don't. They have notes that allow them to be added at the GMs will, and notes on how to do that. As they come though, they do not have Chi. Let me be clearer. Chi canonically exists only in N&SS.
Does this mean that pooping does not canonically exist in a setting unless explicitly mentioned?

eliakon wrote:There are conversion notes on how to go about bringing it to other games if that is desired. BUT it is not CANON. IE there is nothing in HU that says that the default HU universe has Chi. It can be optionally added, but its not the default setting. If you have an EXPLICIT book/page citation to the contrary I would be interested in seeing it
The Megaverse IS canon. All rules are optional, but the setting as established has these properties.
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Re: Chi users in RIFTS?

Unread post by eliakon »

Tor wrote:
Colt47 wrote:you can stop vampire regeneration through using positive Chi, but it's a bit more round about then using negative chi on living beings.

Which ability does this, the one in MC that projects light which I mentioned? You can't launch positive chi attacks like you can negative ones just by having a power and getting it automatically, after all.

Disperse Chi, Dragon Pearls, and any other attack that destroys CHI

Tor wrote:
eliakon wrote:No, Chi can be ADDED to HU and Rifts. They have CONVERSION notes for COMBINING WITH N&SS. The N&SS style Chi does not exist as a base state in those books, unless you can site a specific book/page that says, explicitly, that this kind of Chi exists as a BASE state, not a Conversion, not an Alternate rule, but a base state.

Not being mentioned in a book doesn't mean it doesn't exist in that universe. Rules are given for what seems to be important to gameplay, they are not the end-all of reality. Much as pooping rules are not considered important enough to include in a main book, chi rules (or PPE rules) were not considered important enough for Robotech or TMNT and the like. Yet a Megaversal precedent exists that indicates these are properties of these beings.

That would apply if all the books were one game. They are not, they are COMPATABLE with each other. Just because palladium prints Dead Reign does not mean that those zombies exist in RIFTS. It means that they CAN exist if the GM chooses to add that bit to his game. Chi CAN exist, if the GM chooses to add it. There is no 'Megaversal precdent' since the books are not all source books for each other, but instead are stand alone games, that use rules sets that are similar enough to each other to be easily converted.

Tor wrote:
eliakon wrote:You said that HU had Chi, and you said that Rifts has Chi. They don't. They have notes that allow them to be added at the GMs will, and notes on how to do that. As they come though, they do not have Chi. Let me be clearer. Chi canonically exists only in N&SS.
Does this mean that pooping does not canonically exist in a setting unless explicitly mentioned?
No, this is not pooping. It was important enough to N&SS to deserve a rule. It is important enough that there are optional conversion rules for it. BUT those rules are OPTIONAL, and CONVERSIONS.

Tor wrote:
eliakon wrote:There are conversion notes on how to go about bringing it to other games if that is desired. BUT it is not CANON. IE there is nothing in HU that says that the default HU universe has Chi. It can be optionally added, but its not the default setting. If you have an EXPLICIT book/page citation to the contrary I would be interested in seeing it
The Megaverse IS canon. All rules are optional, but the setting as established has these properties.
[/quote]
The "Megaverse" though ISNT canon. Blurbs on the covers are not rules. The books are COMPATABLE with each other with CONVERSION. The rules for each line are close, but not identical. To have a true Megaverse Rule ALL the rules EVERYWHERE would have to be THE SAME. They are not.
Now if you have an EXPLICIT citation, from a book that says that the source material from other lines is CANON to a different line I would be happy to look at it. Until then its just an advertising gimmick that has no actual basis in the rules.
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Re: Chi users in RIFTS?

Unread post by Tor »

eliakon wrote:Disperse Chi, Dragon Pearls, and any other attack that destroys CHI
Ah yeah those :) I tend to default to thinking N&SS and forget all the MC additions.

eliakon wrote:That would apply if all the books were one game.
It applies because all games exist in a shared Megaverse and rules system.

eliakon wrote:They are not, they are COMPATABLE with each other. Just because palladium prints Dead Reign does not mean that those zombies exist in RIFTS.
What do you mean by 'exists in RIFTS', exactly? Exists on Rifts Earth? You don't have to exist on Rifts Earth to exist relative to Rifts. DR zombies exist in the Rifts Megaverse and Xombies exist in the Dead Reign Megaverse. Of course, there's no established portals open between the worlds, so it's unlikely they'll come into contact.

eliakon wrote:It means that they CAN exist if the GM chooses to add that bit to his game. Chi CAN exist, if the GM chooses to add it.
This applies to all factors in the games. Pantheons for example, opens by saying that all the gods are optional, yet they are used as canonical NPCs in books like Mercenaries and Phase World. Chi does exist, otherwise how does a Rifts Mercs PC possess it on Rifts Earth? It isn't a unique other-dimensional factor, it's a Megaversal one that's neglected mention.

eliakon wrote:There is no 'Megaversal precdent' since the books are not all source books for each other, but instead are stand alone games, that use rules sets that are similar enough to each other to be easily converted.
This isn't an either-or issue. Books are sourcebooks for each other in addition to being stand-alone games.

eliakon wrote:this is not pooping. It was important enough to N&SS to deserve a rule. It is important enough that there are optional conversion rules for it. BUT those rules are OPTIONAL, and CONVERSIONS.
All rules are optional, but these are canonical Megaversal rules, so they are established as part of the Megaversal canon, which all games are part of. It is also part of Rifts canon because we have an NPC using it in a Rifts book.

eliakon wrote:The "Megaverse" though ISNT canon. Blurbs on the covers are not rules.
Source? I could've sworn I've heard even Erin Tarn refer to the term Megaverse before (or was that Plato?). However blurby you think cover (or page 1) texts are, they are just as canon as the prettier stuff near the middle of the book. There is no basis for one trumping the other.

eliakon wrote:The books are COMPATABLE with each other with CONVERSION.
Only where conversion is needed. Conversion accounts for dimensional discrepancies. Something like 'chi does half damage to MDC creatures' (which sucks since now you have to inflict 200 SDC worth of chi damage to inflict 1 MD...) is a conversion. Something like 'chi exists' is not a conversion, was not mentioned, because chi already exists. Rifts has never been described as a chi-less place. That would have been a critical detail to mention were it the case.

eliakon wrote:The rules for each line are close, but not identical.
Yes, and we're told where they differ. There is no 'Rifts lacks chi' rule. In fact, N&SS mentions that 2 chi-using art forms may have survived the Rifts.

eliakon wrote:To have a true Megaverse Rule ALL the rules EVERYWHERE would have to be THE SAME.
No, they don't. Rules can differ to explain different dimensional properties that affect game mechanics, like the range you can draw on ley lines. Or different properties of combat systems that evolve on that dimension (like how N&SS guys rock at rolling).

eliakon wrote:Now if you have an EXPLICIT citation, from a book that says that the source material from other lines is CANON to a different line I would be happy to look at it. Until then its just an advertising gimmick that has no actual basis in the rules.
The text is there, you don't negate its canonicity by declaring it a 'gimmick'. However gimmicky compatability may be, it is established interchangeability.

Numerous examples of inter-dimensional canonicity exist. A great one is how the same Goqua messed with a Nightlord in Nightlands and a Splugorth in Pantheons.
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Re: Chi users in RIFTS?

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

I have to agree with Eli on that there are no "Megaversial Canon" because there is no supporting text that says that there are any megaversial rules.

Before the RUE & BTS2 came out, I would of called myself a megaversialist. But with those two books changing the base rules of those settings drastically from the common core I had to change my stance to each setting canon is separate. (And that the rifters here whining, cause us old hands kept answering their questions with something from some non-rifts setting, that only rifts books contain the canon for rifts.)

While Eli and I might disagree with the exact meaning of some of the text. We are in agreement that there is no 'megaversial canon'. There has to be inclusionist text for rules from other settings to be included to a particular setting.

Therefore, if you want to claim that there is some sort of megaversial canon then you need to bring up text from each and every setting to support your claim, for each rule you want to claim as part of the megaversial canon.

While you may have your house rules set up to be having a Megaversial canon of rules, that is for the games you GM.
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Re: Chi users in RIFTS?

Unread post by Tor »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:there is no supporting text that says that there are any megaversial rules.
Pretty sure universal is what 'compatible' means. Just randomly staring at the back of PF2 nearby, it mentions Monsters and Animals is "adaptable to other game systems". Yet it mentions PF/Rifts/HU/entireMegaverse in a preceding breadth as if it is ONE system.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Before the RUE & BTS2 came out, I would of called myself a megaversialist. But with those two books changing the base rules of those settings drastically from the common core I had to change my stance to each setting canon is separate. (And that the rifters here whining, cause us old hands kept answering their questions with something from some non-rifts setting, that only rifts books contain the canon for rifts.)
Which ones are troublesome? There're ways to rationalize their annoyingness without breaking the Megaverse.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:While Eli and I might disagree with the exact meaning of some of the text. We are in agreement that there is no 'megaversial canon'. There has to be inclusionist text for rules from other settings to be included to a particular setting.
Unless it's on page 1, in that case we conveniently ignore it.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:if you want to claim that there is some sort of megaversial canon then you need to bring up text from each and every setting to support your claim, for each rule you want to claim as part of the megaversial canon.
Each setting doesn't need text, you only need 1-way indication now 2-way.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:While you may have your house rules set up to be having a Megaversial canon of rules, that is for the games you GM.
This isn't about house rules, I'm arguing the books indicate Megaversality and that we pretend it's not there because it's troublesome.
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Re: Chi users in RIFTS?

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Eli...The spell Disperse Chi only Disperses the Chi. There is no chi destroyed by the spell.
-----------
Tor..if it is not specifically in a book then it is a house rule. Since there is no text that says there are megaversal rules, you saying there are is a house rule.

Now if you had said (or maybe meant) that there are some rules shared by the settings, then that right there sidesteps what objections to you dictating to everyone about things are as you say they are, to just pointing something out. This is because there is no 'One overarching set of canon rules', but there are sets of rules that are shared by the setting's canons.

Page one of the PB books is the "this is a game" disclosure text.

Text in a rifts book does not make for an allowance of rifts rules into other settings. It is only an allowance for letting other settings stuff into rifts. A one way street. A one way street there is only One Way to go. There is no two ways about it, Canonly speaking.
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Re: Chi users in RIFTS?

Unread post by Blue_Lion »

Ok does Chi exist in Rifts?-Yes because......

I pulled out my non-revised sourcebook 1 in the back last page is a charter sheet, copyright 1991 by Kevin Siembieda. This is the only charter sheet that I have seen printed in any book it is missing from the revised sourcebook. This Rifts charter sheet includes chi. So this states that chi is in rifts, however usually only charters from ninjas and super spies or with their abilities have the skills to use it.

Edit: There is a updated charter sheet on the main page that also includes chi as a stat so it exist in Rifts if it is included on a official charter sheet.

http://www.palladiumbooks.com/images/Do ... -front.pdf
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Re: Chi users in RIFTS?

Unread post by Tor »

Nice find Lion!
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Since there is no text that says there are megaversal rules, you saying there are is a house rule.
I'm paraphrasing the collective idea communicated on the back covers, first pages and notation sections of pretty much every book Palladium publishes. That's not a houserule.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:you dictating to everyone about things are as you say they are
You mean as I interpret the books as saying?

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:there is no 'One overarching set of canon rules', but there are sets of rules that are shared by the setting's canons
Where are you getting the idea that rules only apply in each setting that reiterates them? What books support that?

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Page one of the PB books is the "this is a game" disclosure text. Text in a rifts book does not make for an allowance of rifts rules into other settings.
If 'this is a game' only applies to the book it's published in, then each sourcebook would be its own game too. If you allow for series' sourcebooks to be a collective setting, then the same logic necessitates interpreting all the games as Palladium Megaverse sourcebooks.

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:It is only an allowance for letting other settings stuff into rifts. A one way street. A one way street there is only One Way to go. There is no two ways about it, Canonly speaking.
Incorrect, CB1 mentions rules for bringing Rifts chars into PF, as do Nightbane.
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Re: Chi users in RIFTS?

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Tor wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:It is only an allowance for letting other settings stuff into rifts. A one way street. A one way street there is only One Way to go. There is no two ways about it, Canonly speaking.
Incorrect, CB1 mentions rules for bringing Rifts chars into PF, as do Nightbane.

Which are for rifts chars. Not rifts Rules. :roll:
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Re: Chi users in RIFTS?

Unread post by Tor »

Rules are packaged along with characters. We use rules interchangeably except where conflicts arise, that's how the Megaverse is designed to work.
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Re: Chi users in RIFTS?

Unread post by eliakon »

Tor wrote:Rules are packaged along with characters. We use rules interchangeably except where conflicts arise, that's how the Megaverse is designed to work.

That's one way to choose to look at it, sure.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

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Re: Chi users in RIFTS?

Unread post by Tor »

You make it sound like an ice cream flavour. This is how Kevin instructs us to look at it. CB1p7 (first non-glossary page) "the changes reflect an effort on our part to make all of Palladium's RPG titles, like Palladium Fantasy, fit nicely into one, seamless RPG rules system, and a Megaverse of inter-connected and interchangeable worlds and characters."

How much clearer does he have to be?
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