Special Forces OCC?

[dante144]

Is there any OCC for an "operator" type class as in a Special Forces gun fighter kinda guy? I was just wondering if the Palladium system covers anything like constantly aiming down the sight of the gun while, perhaps eliminating the aimed shot taking two attacks/actions.

[The Galactus Kid]

I will soon be updating the Mercenary O.C.C.s for a RIFTER article in a similar fashion aas the Revised Triax O.C.C.s from Rifter 55. Something like that will probably be in there. The Sovietski have something similar.

[rat_bastard]

I recommend the Paratrooper OCC from Rifts Mercenary adventures. It is as far as I am concerned a update of the Special Forces OCC.

[Eashamahel]

Is there any OCC for an "operator" type class as in a Special Forces gun fighter kinda guy? I was just wondering if the Palladium system covers anything like constantly aiming down the sight of the gun while, perhaps eliminating the aimed shot taking two attacks/actions.

Your question seems to have been answered, but I'm just curious because I don't understand it at all.

When you say "operator" do you mean as in Operator, the mechanical OCC scholar/adventurer from the rulebook?

[kaid]

Is there any OCC for an "operator" type class as in a Special Forces gun fighter kinda guy? I was just wondering if the Palladium system covers anything like constantly aiming down the sight of the gun while, perhaps eliminating the aimed shot taking two attacks/actions.

Your question seems to have been answered, but I'm just curious because I don't understand it at all.

When you say "operator" do you mean as in Operator, the mechanical OCC scholar/adventurer from the rulebook?

He means it in the more current meaning of special forces operators people on the really sharp end of the stick not the rift monkey wrench wrangling operators.

[Alrik Vas]

I will soon be updating the Mercenary O.C.C.s for a RIFTER article in a similar fashion aas the Revised Triax O.C.C.s from Rifter 55. Something like that will probably be in there. The Sovietski have something similar.

When when WHEN WHENWHENWHENOMG!

[Eashamahel]

He means it in the more current meaning of special forces operators people on the really sharp end of the stick not the rift monkey wrench wrangling operators.

Ah, thanks!

[dante144]

things to consider.. some people can shoot accurately (trick shooters) can shoot 8 times a second. I mean hitting targets, even moving targets.

I personally can pull a trigger (from the old paintball days) 6 times a second, but not necessarily accurately.

Also I am guessing a SF guy would initiative bonuses from always aiming. and perhaps more attacks per melee. Just guessing.

[rat_bastard]

Headhunter Assassin from Rifts Canada
Gunfighter and gunslinger from Rifts New West
Paratrooper from Rifts Mercenary adventures.

[guardiandashi]

Headhunter Assassin from Rifts Canada
Gunfighter and gunslinger from Rifts New West
Paratrooper from Rifts Mercenary adventures.

and its dated ... but special forces from rifts mercenaries
also coalition war campaign has some coalition occ's that are of that nature

[Alrik Vas]

things to consider.. some people can shoot accurately (trick shooters) can shoot 8 times a second. I mean hitting targets, even moving targets.

I personally can pull a trigger (from the old paintball days) 6 times a second, but not necessarily accurately.

Also I am guessing a SF guy would initiative bonuses from always aiming. and perhaps more attacks per melee. Just guessing.

Any man at arms can take WP Sharpshooting. Paratrooper OCC specifically gets a Marksman class feature, giving them +1 attack with firearms and a static +2 to strike, as well as no penalties for shooting while moving. They also get an initiative bonus.

Paratrooper really is the next-gen SF of Rifts.

[Giant2005]

things to consider.. some people can shoot accurately (trick shooters) can shoot 8 times a second. I mean hitting targets, even moving targets.

I personally can pull a trigger (from the old paintball days) 6 times a second, but not necessarily accurately.

Also I am guessing a SF guy would initiative bonuses from always aiming. and perhaps more attacks per melee. Just guessing.

Any man at arms can take WP Sharpshooting. Paratrooper OCC specifically gets a Marksman class feature, giving them +1 attack with firearms and a static +2 to strike, as well as no penalties for shooting while moving. They also get an initiative bonus.

Paratrooper really is the next-gen SF of Rifts.

It doesn't have the official stamp on it but if you use Aten's updated Triax OCCs from Rifter 55, the Paratrooper is no longer top dog of the SF.
The NGR Intelligence Division agent takes the ultimate badass title by having the same marksmanship bonuses as the Paratrooper, the same Immunity to HF and with a bunch of bonuses in addition; Including an extra +3 to strike.

[rat_bastard]

things to consider.. some people can shoot accurately (trick shooters) can shoot 8 times a second. I mean hitting targets, even moving targets.

I personally can pull a trigger (from the old paintball days) 6 times a second, but not necessarily accurately.

Also I am guessing a SF guy would initiative bonuses from always aiming. and perhaps more attacks per melee. Just guessing.

Any man at arms can take WP Sharpshooting. Paratrooper OCC specifically gets a Marksman class feature, giving them +1 attack with firearms and a static +2 to strike, as well as no penalties for shooting while moving. They also get an initiative bonus.

Paratrooper really is the next-gen SF of Rifts.

It doesn't have the official stamp on it but if you use Aten's updated Triax OCCs from Rifter 55, the Paratrooper is no longer top dog of the SF.
The NGR Intelligence Division agent takes the ultimate badass title by having the same marksmanship bonuses as the Paratrooper, the same Immunity to HF and with a bunch of bonuses in addition; Including an extra +3 to strike.

how is it with PP?

[Giant2005]

things to consider.. some people can shoot accurately (trick shooters) can shoot 8 times a second. I mean hitting targets, even moving targets.

I personally can pull a trigger (from the old paintball days) 6 times a second, but not necessarily accurately.

Also I am guessing a SF guy would initiative bonuses from always aiming. and perhaps more attacks per melee. Just guessing.

Any man at arms can take WP Sharpshooting. Paratrooper OCC specifically gets a Marksman class feature, giving them +1 attack with firearms and a static +2 to strike, as well as no penalties for shooting while moving. They also get an initiative bonus.

Paratrooper really is the next-gen SF of Rifts.

It doesn't have the official stamp on it but if you use Aten's updated Triax OCCs from Rifter 55, the Paratrooper is no longer top dog of the SF.
The NGR Intelligence Division agent takes the ultimate badass title by having the same marksmanship bonuses as the Paratrooper, the same Immunity to HF and with a bunch of bonuses in addition; Including an extra +3 to strike.

how is it with PP?

Standard PP unless you take the Cyber-humanoid ability (Which has a PP of 20) but if you take the Cyber-Humanoid ability, you can't get the marksmanship and impervious to HF abilities until levels 4 and 7. It doesn't really need a high PP though as it has bonuses to everything PP can do built into the class (+2 to init, +3 to ranged strike, +1 to melee strike, +1 to parry and dodge, + Paratrooper Marksmanship bonuses if that ability is taken).

[Alrik Vas]

And i thought the Paratrooper was cheating. haha, wow. Well, i guess it's not "official" so there's that.

[Carl Gleba]

I will soon be updating the Mercenary O.C.C.s for a RIFTER article in a similar fashion aas the Revised Triax O.C.C.s from Rifter 55. Something like that will probably be in there. The Sovietski have something similar.

Can't wait for this. Keep us updated.

[cosmicfish]

Is there any OCC for an "operator" type class as in a Special Forces gun fighter kinda guy? I was just wondering if the Palladium system covers anything like constantly aiming down the sight of the gun while, perhaps eliminating the aimed shot taking two attacks/actions.

Are you looking for a special ops version of a gunslinger or something? Because there is a Special Forces O.C.C. in Mercenaries that is meant to cover a "standard" operator*. If you are looking for a type of super-operator that goes beyond this O.C.C., then I do not think so.

*: operator, uncapitalized, refers to a person trained in special operations, while Operator, capitalized, means the O.C.C. that fixes stuff.

[The Galactus Kid]

And i thought the Paratrooper was cheating. haha, wow. Well, i guess it's not "official" so there's that.

It's more balanced than the paratrooper. The Paratrooper is front-end heavy while the revised NGR intel agent grows with experience.

I will soon be updating the Mercenary O.C.C.s for a RIFTER article in a similar fashion aas the Revised Triax O.C.C.s from Rifter 55. Something like that will probably be in there. The Sovietski have something similar.

Can't wait for this. Keep us updated.

Of course, Carl. It may be in the Rifter in the fall right around GenCon.

[Nightmask]

And i thought the Paratrooper was cheating. haha, wow. Well, i guess it's not "official" so there's that.

It's more balanced than the paratrooper. The Paratrooper is front-end heavy while the revised NGR intel agent grows with experience.

It also has what amounts to a super-power (immune to Horror Factor) for no justifiable reason, when OCC that routinely deal with horrific supernatural forces (like Shifters) have no or at best minor bonuses to save against Horror Factor. Yet the Paratrooper has it apparently because jumping out of a plane and falling to the ground is soooooo much scarier than facing a vampire intelligence for the first time or Ares after he's cut a bloody swatch through hundreds of soldiers.

[flatline]

And i thought the Paratrooper was cheating. haha, wow. Well, i guess it's not "official" so there's that.

It's more balanced than the paratrooper. The Paratrooper is front-end heavy while the revised NGR intel agent grows with experience.

It also has what amounts to a super-power (immune to Horror Factor) for no justifiable reason, when OCC that routinely deal with horrific supernatural forces (like Shifters) have no or at best minor bonuses to save against Horror Factor. Yet the Paratrooper has it apparently because jumping out of a plane and falling to the ground is soooooo much scarier than facing a vampire intelligence for the first time or Ares after he's cut a bloody swatch through hundreds of soldiers.

They're immune to horror factor because the primitive portions of the their brains that feel fear have been chemically deadened by the modified crazy implants they've been given. It all balances out because they're -30% to all non-OCC skills that aren't combat related every other Tuesday.

Oh, and they're terrible kissers.

Just kidding. They're GREAT kissers!

--flatline

[The Galactus Kid]

And i thought the Paratrooper was cheating. haha, wow. Well, i guess it's not "official" so there's that.

It's more balanced than the paratrooper. The Paratrooper is front-end heavy while the revised NGR intel agent grows with experience.

It also has what amounts to a super-power (immune to Horror Factor) for no justifiable reason, when OCC that routinely deal with horrific supernatural forces (like Shifters) have no or at best minor bonuses to save against Horror Factor. Yet the Paratrooper has it apparently because jumping out of a plane and falling to the ground is soooooo much scarier than facing a vampire intelligence for the first time or Ares after he's cut a bloody swatch through hundreds of soldiers.

Only if it is selected. They do not start with it, and many will not gain it, instead opting for other abilities. They have a limit on the amount of abilities they can select, but that makes the O.C.C more customizable to the player and allows versatility to groups of intel agents.

[Nightmask]

And i thought the Paratrooper was cheating. haha, wow. Well, i guess it's not "official" so there's that.

It's more balanced than the paratrooper. The Paratrooper is front-end heavy while the revised NGR intel agent grows with experience.

It also has what amounts to a super-power (immune to Horror Factor) for no justifiable reason, when OCC that routinely deal with horrific supernatural forces (like Shifters) have no or at best minor bonuses to save against Horror Factor. Yet the Paratrooper has it apparently because jumping out of a plane and falling to the ground is soooooo much scarier than facing a vampire intelligence for the first time or Ares after he's cut a bloody swatch through hundreds of soldiers.

They're immune to horror factor because the primitive portions of the their brains that feel fear have been chemically deadened by the modified crazy implants they've been given. It all balances out because they're -30% to all non-OCC skills that aren't combat related every other Tuesday.

Oh, and they're terrible kissers.

Just kidding. They're GREAT kissers!

--flatline

I don't think your favorite class (The Temporal Wizard) gets much if any save against HF either, in spite of his apprentice period generally requiring service to a creature with a decent HF and being exposed fairly regularly to horrific things.

[Glistam]

And i thought the Paratrooper was cheating. haha, wow. Well, i guess it's not "official" so there's that.

It's more balanced than the paratrooper. The Paratrooper is front-end heavy while the revised NGR intel agent grows with experience.

It also has what amounts to a super-power (immune to Horror Factor) for no justifiable reason, when OCC that routinely deal with horrific supernatural forces (like Shifters) have no or at best minor bonuses to save against Horror Factor. Yet the Paratrooper has it apparently because jumping out of a plane and falling to the ground is soooooo much scarier than facing a vampire intelligence for the first time or Ares after he's cut a bloody swatch through hundreds of soldiers.

They're immune to horror factor because the primitive portions of the their brains that feel fear have been chemically deadened by the modified crazy implants they've been given. It all balances out because they're -30% to all non-OCC skills that aren't combat related every other Tuesday.

Oh, and they're terrible kissers.

Just kidding. They're GREAT kissers!

--flatline

I don't think your favorite class (The Temporal Wizard) gets much if any save against HF either, in spite of his apprentice period generally requiring service to a creature with a decent HF and being exposed fairly regularly to horrific things.

Both Temporal Wizards and Shifters start with bonuses to save vs. Horror Factor, and that bonus increases as the character levels.

[Alrik Vas]

And i thought the Paratrooper was cheating. haha, wow. Well, i guess it's not "official" so there's that.

It's more balanced than the paratrooper. The Paratrooper is front-end heavy while the revised NGR intel agent grows with experience.

It also has what amounts to a super-power (immune to Horror Factor) for no justifiable reason, when OCC that routinely deal with horrific supernatural forces (like Shifters) have no or at best minor bonuses to save against Horror Factor. Yet the Paratrooper has it apparently because jumping out of a plane and falling to the ground is soooooo much scarier than facing a vampire intelligence for the first time or Ares after he's cut a bloody swatch through hundreds of soldiers.

I don't think you quite understand what training for these types is like. Now, i don't think they should be IMMUNE, but i'd say anything under a 14 they shouldn't have to roll for. We're not talking about a bunch of weekend thrill-seekers here. They get scared all the time, it's biology. what they do is kick the fear in the balls and move on because their trained to do just that.

[Nightmask]

They're immune to horror factor because the primitive portions of the their brains that feel fear have been chemically deadened by the modified crazy implants they've been given. It all balances out because they're -30% to all non-OCC skills that aren't combat related every other Tuesday.

Oh, and they're terrible kissers.

Just kidding. They're GREAT kissers!

--flatline

I don't think your favorite class (The Temporal Wizard) gets much if any save against HF either, in spite of his apprentice period generally requiring service to a creature with a decent HF and being exposed fairly regularly to horrific things.

Both Temporal Wizards and Shifters start with bonuses to save vs. Horror Factor, and that bonus increases as the character levels.

Still a far cry from total immunity from an OCC that has way more reason for it than people who're just well trained soldiers with a thing for jumping from planes. Every soldier should have an immunity to horror factor given they're all trained to deal with combat and horrific things, certainly the paratrooper isn't being exposed or got reason to have some kind of super-special training that grants an actual power to them when those steeped in supernatural horrors don't.

[Nightmask]

And i thought the Paratrooper was cheating. haha, wow. Well, i guess it's not "official" so there's that.

It's more balanced than the paratrooper. The Paratrooper is front-end heavy while the revised NGR intel agent grows with experience.

It also has what amounts to a super-power (immune to Horror Factor) for no justifiable reason, when OCC that routinely deal with horrific supernatural forces (like Shifters) have no or at best minor bonuses to save against Horror Factor. Yet the Paratrooper has it apparently because jumping out of a plane and falling to the ground is soooooo much scarier than facing a vampire intelligence for the first time or Ares after he's cut a bloody swatch through hundreds of soldiers.

I don't think you quite understand what training for these types is like. Now, i don't think they should be IMMUNE, but i'd say anything under a 14 they shouldn't have to roll for. We're not talking about a bunch of weekend thrill-seekers here. They get scared all the time, it's biology. what they do is kick the fear in the balls and move on because their trained to do just that.

I don't think you quite understand how you can make that kind of argument for every soldier then, none of those OCC are 'weekend warriors', from the CS Grunt to the Special Forces OCC they're all trained to deal with fear but Horror Factor is much more than fear it's something striking at the mind in ways beyond what the mind is evolved for. As I've regularly pointed out classes that have to deal with regular exposure to actual beings with Horror Factor don't get to be immune to this mind-bending effect and if those most suited to having it don't then the Paratrooper certainly isn't suited to have it.

[kaid]

things to consider.. some people can shoot accurately (trick shooters) can shoot 8 times a second. I mean hitting targets, even moving targets.

I personally can pull a trigger (from the old paintball days) 6 times a second, but not necessarily accurately.

Also I am guessing a SF guy would initiative bonuses from always aiming. and perhaps more attacks per melee. Just guessing.

Any man at arms can take WP Sharpshooting. Paratrooper OCC specifically gets a Marksman class feature, giving them +1 attack with firearms and a static +2 to strike, as well as no penalties for shooting while moving. They also get an initiative bonus.

Paratrooper really is the next-gen SF of Rifts.

It doesn't have the official stamp on it but if you use Aten's updated Triax OCCs from Rifter 55, the Paratrooper is no longer top dog of the SF.
The NGR Intelligence Division agent takes the ultimate badass title by having the same marksmanship bonuses as the Paratrooper, the same Immunity to HF and with a bunch of bonuses in addition; Including an extra +3 to strike.

I was just looking at that issue last night. The NGR int officer from there truly is a bad ass. Hell you can start them off as a cyber humanoid which is basically a human looking light full conversion borg that can get all those bonuses above so they can guarantee high str and PP in addition to all those bonuses.

Edit I think I worded it wrong the INT officer could get all those powers but only gets three options at level one so they may or may not start with the various bonuses but they start really nasty and get nastier as they level.

[flatline]

In RMB, if you wanted to play a special forces type character, you used the Military Specialist.

Compare the Military Specialist to any of the newer classes mentioned in this thread if you want to see power creep in action.

--flatline

[42dragon]

In RMB, if you wanted to play a special forces type character, you used the Military Specialist.

Compare the Military Specialist to any of the newer classes mentioned in this thread if you want to see power creep in action.

--flatline

Here, here. This is the type of power creep more so than weapon damage that irks me.

[kaid]

In RMB, if you wanted to play a special forces type character, you used the Military Specialist.

Compare the Military Specialist to any of the newer classes mentioned in this thread if you want to see power creep in action.

--flatline

Here, here. This is the type of power creep more so than weapon damage that irks me.

Understandable although to some extent I do like the newer style of the OCCs even though it does power inflate them over the old RMB. The problem in the old RMB is there were a fair number of OCC that simply were just a list of skills. It is kind of how the palladium RPG works as well and is one reason in the palladium RPG I tend to find people like the psionics or magic using classes as the classes seem a bit more fleshed out.

Given the wide range in powers of OCC's though even in the old RMB power creep from OCC abilities impact overall is likely not that high. When you have vagabonds on one side and dragons/glitterboys on the other its pretty clear that OCC's "power balance" has never been a thing rifts has ever cared much about.

[Alrik Vas]

And i thought the Paratrooper was cheating. haha, wow. Well, i guess it's not "official" so there's that.

It's more balanced than the paratrooper. The Paratrooper is front-end heavy while the revised NGR intel agent grows with experience.

It also has what amounts to a super-power (immune to Horror Factor) for no justifiable reason, when OCC that routinely deal with horrific supernatural forces (like Shifters) have no or at best minor bonuses to save against Horror Factor. Yet the Paratrooper has it apparently because jumping out of a plane and falling to the ground is soooooo much scarier than facing a vampire intelligence for the first time or Ares after he's cut a bloody swatch through hundreds of soldiers.

I don't think you quite understand what training for these types is like. Now, i don't think they should be IMMUNE, but i'd say anything under a 14 they shouldn't have to roll for. We're not talking about a bunch of weekend thrill-seekers here. They get scared all the time, it's biology. what they do is kick the fear in the balls and move on because their trained to do just that.

I don't think you quite understand how you can make that kind of argument for every soldier then, none of those OCC are 'weekend warriors', from the CS Grunt to the Special Forces OCC they're all trained to deal with fear but Horror Factor is much more than fear it's something striking at the mind in ways beyond what the mind is evolved for. As I've regularly pointed out classes that have to deal with regular exposure to actual beings with Horror Factor don't get to be immune to this mind-bending effect and if those most suited to having it don't then the Paratrooper certainly isn't suited to have it.

When horror factor is discussed in the books it talks about situations causing horror factor, not just creatures. A room splattered in blood or the intensity of battle could both have a HF according to the rules. So, do you make these things different than the presence of a demon by the rules? If you think so, I can actually get behind that. "Supernatural fear" would be different, as it could be seen as something different altogether from the crack of gun fire and gettng covered in pieces of your comrade who didn't quite get to cover from that grenade. I'd say a shifter, for instance, could theoretically have a higher resistance to supernatural fear effects (it would make sense, especially for the evil ones who deal with demons all the time), but that doesn't make them automatically stable during a bloody fight. A demon's presence is different from actions it might take, if HF is supposedly something as mind-bending as it's supposed to be.

Soldier's minds are conditioned, yes, they get training and exposure to stimuli that help them cope with their environment and act regardless of what's occuring around them. I'd say that grunts get the least though. They're deployed in large numbers, their comrades at their sides help bolster them collectively so they can continue on. A class like a paratrooper (the way the OCC is written) is supposed to operate in small groups, they get specialized training. Their training is suggestively similar to a SEAL, they have to overcome being drowned, sleep dep, complete phyciscal exhaustion, resisting torture and all the while people are telling them they can quit any time. It's incredibly easy to wash out of the program, only someone with real drive and fortitude is going to make it through that.

Now, as i said, i disagree with them beng immune. Though i think there should be a minimum HF they don't even have to roll against. Though I also think the same is fair for a number of other classes.

[The Galactus Kid]

Edit I think I worded it wrong the INT officer could get all those powers but only gets three options at level one so they may or may not start with the various bonuses but they start really nasty and get nastier as they level.

This is correct. Theyare drastically limited by the amount of special class abilities they can select.

[kaid]

Edit I think I worded it wrong the INT officer could get all those powers but only gets three options at level one so they may or may not start with the various bonuses but they start really nasty and get nastier as they level.

This is correct. Theyare drastically limited by the amount of special class abilities they can select.

I am a fan of the cyberhumanoid option. Nice to see some options along those lines I had not noticed that the last time I read through that. An intelligence operator who is basically like the terminator from the terminator movies is pretty neat. Nice option for a more covert ops type borg character which is a very nice option when normally the borg option is wear a mountain of armor and slog towards your target in a noisy fashion.

[The Galactus Kid]

The Cyber-humanoid was originally presented in the Bionics Sourcebook and is a great little cyborg. There are only a few places on Rifts Earth with the technological knowhow to pull it off (Japan, the NGR and the Sovietski and probably the CS) but other than that, it's pretty rare. The NGR makes the option available to those agents who may be in harms way more often than not.

[runebeo]

Just read the Rifter 55 last night, and I'm in love with the updated NGR OCCs but the NGR Intelligence Division Agent is so great just cut from the same mold as the Paratrooper, gives you way more options. Hope this article & update gets put in a Triax or WB 5 update

[Proseksword]

I can't see ever allowing the "updated" Triax OCCs as-is in any campaign. Too many of them include rather hefty bonuses to strike with ranged weapons & bonus attacks which are virtually unprecedented amongst mundane combat classes. Why should robot gunners be +3 to strike and gain +1 attacks per melee round? They already don't have to do anything with their actions except aim & fire 98% of the time because they're just along for the ride. I don't see any reason why the NGR's gunners should be superhumanly fast and accurate, far in advance of the capabilities of every other power on RIFTs Earth. Same goes for the Robot Pilot, Power Armor Commando, and Cyborg Soldier. Gargoyle's are outclassed badly enough just by the NGR's equipment without them also never having to worry about missing and getting even more free attacks.

The Mercenaries OCCs I'd be okay with getting a hefty buff. Most of them were extremely fluffy and really lacking in combat power, particularly the Special Forces O.C.C., which has really been trumped by the Paratrooper in every way. I'd be okay with an update to them, even if it was on par with what the Triax OCCs were given, simply because there is so little reason to take them as-is, and as independents their less likely to be rocking bleeding edge weaponry from every orifice, so they'd need to compensate somehow....

[runebeo]

Some good points but some people enjoy somewhat max out combat skills when facing say the CS, Vampires or Splugorth minions. Their not push over with CS killer vehicles, the 30 plus advantages Vampire have including invulnerability and mind control. If any GM see too many skills on a soldier type character all he needs to say is at least 2-3 of your secondary skills need to be personal (play guitar, Sing, dance or cooking) help us out with our Nightbane & Dead Reign characters when everyone had only combat oriented skills. "Your a former Fireman who is as fast as lightning, who MMA fighter at night and you only takes skills with a combat bonus. Your real life you're a fisherman, carpenter & Gardner might those skills help in a Zombie Apocalypse?" " Yes but fishing poles suck as a weapon so I'll pick Boxing, kick boxing, Body building, Fencing and physical labor." "What about running?" "Its no good no bonuses! No worries I using fencing bonus with my Firemen's Axe & set the zombies fire then my Fire fighting skill to do 69% more damage!" Real conversation a year ago lol