Since the RUE release

[medikant]

So it's been quite a few years since I have played Rifts and I am looking to get back into the game. One thing I noticed is that the RUE was released and Vampire Kingdoms was updated/split into two books.

Have any of the other books been updated/released according to the RUE? I see sourcebook one has "revised and expanded" after it on the storefront. Was it redone after the RUE?

I have started buying up the books again, but before I get far into it I want to make sure I'm not picking up ones that are being currently reworked/planned for rework.

Thanks!

[The Beast]

So it's been quite a few years since I have played Rifts and I am looking to get back into the game. One thing I noticed is that the RUE was released and Vampire Kingdoms was updated/split into two books.

Have any of the other books been updated/released according to the RUE? I see sourcebook one has "revised and expanded" after it on the storefront. Was it redone after the RUE?

I have started buying up the books again, but before I get far into it I want to make sure I'm not picking up ones that are being currently reworked/planned for rework.

Thanks!

So far only SB1 and WB1 have been updated, however, it's not like an update from D&D 2nd Ed to 3rd Ed. It's more along the lines of "Here's what changed in the area since 101 PA." Though the vampires were changed a bit, and some of the NPCs were changed to reflect how much of a threat they're supposed to be, or given appropriate OCCs. Stat-wise though you could get away with just using the original books.

Also the CB1 was revised. The bad spooky stuff were moved to Dark Conversions, and the dragons were removed because PB wanted to make a Rifts version of Dragons & Gods (but haven't yet).

[Eashamahel]

Many of the books have actually been 'Revised' to match the Ultimate Edition. My copy of Juicer Uprising for instance has changes to it like the addition of Perception bonuses and modifications to bonuses, skill lists, ect. How you can tell what books have gotten this semi-'Revised' treatment without picking them up and flipping through them, I do not know.

The only two original books that have gotten the full Ultimate Edition 'Revised' treatment are Vampire Kingdoms and Sourcebook One.

As to where in the book line the books switched to Ultimate Edition style, you are again going to have to figure it out yourself. as Palladium doesn't note it on the books (as far as I can tell, it's not "Rifts: Ultimate Edtion Northern Gun 1" for example), but I assume every book released after the R:UE rulebook has the UE changes.

[medikant]

Thanks guys. This will help guide my purchases. I have some favorites I wanted to pick up, but didn't want to grab them and learn they weren't "up to RUE". Glad to hear this!

[Tor]

WB16 Federation of Magic has also been revised. the spell section was dropped since the Book of Magic has all the spells and more info on the City of Dweomer was added to fill the space.

Sucks for those of us who bought the original. I guess there's nowhere else to get the new Dweomer info besides duplicating our own archives.

[Eashamahel]

I did not realize that Federation had been Revised. It's all pretty confusing. Juicer Uprising (book 10) is not listed as Revised, even though it's been updated to fit with the Ultimate Edition rules, but Federation of magic (16) is Revised, since they apparently removed the spell section as it's all in the Book of Magic. Anyone know about Psyscape (book 12)? The psychic powers are in the Games Master Guide, did they remove them from the book on re-printing? If they were to follow the FoM system, they could replace it with some actual info on Psyscape, which would go a long way to improving that book.

[medikant]

It looks like a few of the books have been "revised/updated" to go along with the RUE.

Any ideas if the Game Master's Guide has been "revised/updated"? Sounds like the Book of Magic has been.

[Eashamahel]

It's sad/funny that on the Palladium forums, where we can directly see the Palladium store, and look at all the Palladium books, we can't actually tell if those books have been revised or not. I suppose a company has to put some effort into their website/online store for that to actually happen (and how long has the coding error with the little '?' been in the titles in the store now?), which isn't really Palladium's thing.

[Kagashi]

Ive complained many times about this issue. Apparently Palladium does not detect the same frustration that we do, not knowing what freaking book we own. The most official answer I have gotten is, KS does not want people to think they have to buy a new book just because a few changes were made. Therefore, it is never advertised other than "back in print" on a press release, nor is there any indication in the catalog that anything is different. Yet, to me, these changes ARE significant, especially when you are dealing with more attacks per melee and auto dodge bonuses.

Most of the changes includes beefing up stats of the older books to match the power creep that has happened over time. Like in Atlantis, certain armors are way more powerful than we first remember them in the 1990s, or most monsters that have set numbers of attacks saw at LEAST plus 2 from what they originally had.

Other changes are more clearly defined rules. Auto Dodge, for the most part, is broken apart from regular dodge. It used to be that if you got auto dodge as an ability, you just used your dodge bonuses. After RUE, they were two separate categories of dodging. Now, in the secret revision of CWC, both Hand to Hand Commando and Quick Flex Aliens see auto dodge more defined and separate from regular dodge. Same with Juicer Uprising. (yet the QFA in Dbees of NA have different stats than the secretly revised CWC...but the H2H Commando matches RUE.)

Lastly, some errors have been fixed. For example, the pictures of the robot and the power armor in Free Quebec who had their weapons descriptions backwards in the original printings, have been swapped to make more sense.

But from what I can tell, here is the breakdown:

-"Revised" simply means the book was drastically rewritten and reformatted from the original book. Revised has nothing to do with the release of RUE. Federation of Magic and Conversion Book 1 were both revised prior to RUE's release. However, Vampire Kingdoms and Sourcebook One were Revised AFTER RUE was produced and uses the same style rules and assumptions of RUE.
-Most (if not all by now...I stopped paying attention about 2 years ago) world and source books went through a minor revision since RUE starting in 2006. If you have a printing that is post-2006 of a book that was originally produced prior to RUE, it is most likely been secretly revised. The best way to tell if you have a revised book is to 1) check to see when your edition was printed (post-2006) or 2) flip to any Character Class and check to see if the secondary skills reference RUE or not. If it does not, your book is still formatted for use of the OLD RMB. If it does, you can assume the book has seen the RUE face lift.

The only exception to this rule I can think of is Rifts World Book 2 Atlantis, which was the first of the "Secret Revisions". You can tell it was revised because of things like Meltza now having 16 APM and Armor of Ithan amulets costing 20 billion credits instead of 10 million from previous editions, but it is still void of the "secondary skills from RUE" trick since it was the first to be revised and still uses the "pick from the categories above" method. I have no idea if any more recent printings have fixed that. It has been 7 years since they printed the secret revision and I am not in the habit of buying books online just to see if its been changed in the past few years. Likewise, RCB1:R and FoM:R may have been secretly revised over the past 7 years, I just have not seen it to verify.

There is absolutely no difference in CAT number or title of these Secret Revisions. If you were to order online, and they happened to have a printing from 2005 in stock, you could still potentially get that older version of the book (unlikely though). However, I have specifically asked for the newer printings for XMas Grab Bags to avoid getting older printings of books I already owned and so far, I have never gotten an older printing with that method.

Hope this helps.

[Eashamahel]

I WISH I had known about the (unlisted revisions) to books a couple of years back. I wanted to finish my collection of RIFTS books I considered 'classic', ones that were seperate from the Ultimate Edition, and so got a bunch from before the R:UE rulebook (like the aforementioned Juicer Uprising), assuming that eventually all of these would be 'Revised' to go along with the new Ultimate Edition.

Then of course I get the books, and they are all partially revised, which is not what I want, and I need to go online off of ebay and old book stores to look for old printings to replace the books I just got. Now, even more years later, it turns out the idea of Palladium putting out truly 'Revised' editions of it's books to match the Ultimate Edition is pretty much just a dream, despite the fact that doing so would be a great way for them to make some sales! (Assuming they could actually put out 'Ultimate Edition' books that were more up to par with the modern market, and not of the quality of Sourcebook 1:Revised...).

[Balabanto]

WB16 Federation of Magic has also been revised. the spell section was dropped since the Book of Magic has all the spells and more info on the City of Dweomer was added to fill the space.

Sucks for those of us who bought the original. I guess there's nowhere else to get the new Dweomer info besides duplicating our own archives.

Too bad they still require Battle MAgus to be house ruled because they didn't clean up the text of the OCC. That's what I call a failed revision right there.

[Eashamahel]

You can't really expect Palladium to be on top of the editing process at this point in the game, can you? My special edition RIFTS rulebook is an exact copy of the original, right down to the spelling mistakes and errors, and my 6th printing books have the same mistakes they still did on the first printing.

That's just Palladium, don't expect miracles

[Nekira Sudacne]

WB16 Federation of Magic has also been revised. the spell section was dropped since the Book of Magic has all the spells and more info on the City of Dweomer was added to fill the space.

but that's not related to Rifts Ultimate Edition, as Federation of Magic Revised predates RUE by several years.

[medikant]

All this information has been quite helpful and I appreciate it!

I am a bit disappointed there is not a notation in the store to clarify pre/post-RUE updates/revisions, but glad to hear picking up an older print run it is compatible.

[Daeglan]

Did Atlantis get the quiet update?

[Kagashi]

Did Atlantis get the quiet update?

Yes, it was the first to do so.

[Kagashi]

All this information has been quite helpful and I appreciate it!

I am a bit disappointed there is not a notation in the store to clarify pre/post-RUE updates/revisions, but glad to hear picking up an older print run it is compatible.

Yes, the pre-2006 printings are still compatible with RUE for the most part. There will be contradictions however, when a contradiction occurs, use RUE as the winner.

[Daeglan]

Did Atlantis get the quiet update?

Yes, it was the first to do so.

What changed?

[Eashamahel]

New Spells and Psionics from later additions (Psyscape and Federation of Magic) were added to creatures that could have them, and Attacks Per Melee have been update to fit the Ultimate Edition system.

[Kagashi]

Did Atlantis get the quiet update?

Yes, it was the first to do so.

What changed?

Aside what I already posted in my larger post? Not much. Mostly Attacks Per Melee for monsters with fixed numbers of attacks (originally, Rifts did not have "2 attacks for living", so Palladium had to beef up the older monsters after RUE was printed to make the monsters dangerous again). Some of the monsters deal more damage than before too. Sunaji armor got a stat face lift to make it more dangerous than the Power Creeped Coalition armor. Armor of Ithan amulets are twice as expensive as before.

Largest disappointment for Atlantis is the skills as I mentioned before. On top of the secondary skills being under the RMB format as opposed to RUE format, the skill categories are still under the old system. For example, you will not find the Cowboy skill category listed anywhere on any RCC or OCC, despite it being an official category in RUE. Likewise, if you looked at a strict interpretation of the rules, absolutely no character from this book can learn how to ride a horse since Horsemanship skills used to be Pilot skills back in the day, and the listings still reflect that old format, omitting Cowboy and Horsemanship skills from all OCC/RCCs.

[Kagashi]

New Spells and Psionics from later additions (Psyscape and Federation of Magic) were added to creatures that could have them, and Attacks Per Melee have been update to fit the Ultimate Edition system.

What printing is yours? Mine is Jan 2006 and no new psionics have been added.

[Daeglan]

I have to say I really dislike how perception is handled. Skills that would affect perception do not get handled well because a D20 roll vs. a percentage based roll with no system for opposed rolls that I can see....The fact that some classes get a perception bonus and others make no mention of it...

[Tor]

If the shadow-boost in Atlantis was just the weapons I could at least attribute it to Kittani inventiveness...

If the Metzla are speeding up though... are they evolving at a rapid pace? Should we be frightened? In ten more years, will they have a dozen more attacks?

[Kagashi]

If the shadow-boost in Atlantis was just the weapons I could at least attribute it to Kittani inventiveness...

If the Metzla are speeding up though... are they evolving at a rapid pace? Should we be frightened? In ten more years, will they have a dozen more attacks?

Fairly certain it has nothing to do with in-story (in-character) reasons. Its Retcon pure and simple to deal with Power Creep over the years and still maintaining the flavor text that the Splugorth is supposed to be powerful. If they didnt do that, Post-RUE weapons and equipment from places like the CS, Triax, and Northern Gun would make Kittani tech either on par, or laughable...when Kittani tech is canon to be be superior. Likewise, with the addition of game mechanic aspects like Juicers AND Crazies having Auto Dodge (and throw in Cyber Knights too), Hand to Hand Commando, and "+2 attacks for living"; Splugorth monsters (to include Blind Warrior Women, Slavers, and Meltza) needed to be beefed up to keep them on top of the food chain (as described in flavor text) since all of these aspects were added to the game AFTER Atlantis was written.

So basically, Meltza "always" had 16 attacks per melee, you just didn't realize it.

[DhAkael]

I have to say I really dislike how perception is handled. Skills that would affect perception do not get handled well because a D20 roll vs. a percentage based roll with no system for opposed rolls that I can see....The fact that some classes get a perception bonus and others make no mention of it...

I wonder if "house rules" could compensate for this. Perception is an awful lot like a "spot check" in the D20 system. My players complain that there are no clear bonuses to perception except for a few racial and O.C.C. bonuses. Perhaps the I.Q. attribute could modify the roll or certain skills would either modify a perceptor's roll while if the opponent is attempting to pick pocket or prowl, the opponents skills could allow for penalties against the perceptor's roll or the target number.

Perception was cut & pasted (badly) from Nightabne.
I.Q. DOES affect perception rolls, but sadly, to make room for Kevin's ramblings about how he created Rifts in the first place, the full perception rules were truncated. If you have a copy of Nightbane handy, the canon rules are in there.

[Daeglan]

The problem is perception is a skill and should be percentage based. Also if you make skills additive with the goal being to get higher than 100 you can compare results higher result wins

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

This is just another place that Palladium has fallen down hard and one of the reasons that they aren't doing well financially. RUE was regarded by most to be a disaster that actually made the rules worse, and then it was followed by a bunch of unecessary revisions and shadow updates rendering people's books obsolete without them ever knowing.

[kaid]

This is just another place that Palladium has fallen down hard and one of the reasons that they aren't doing well financially. RUE was regarded by most to be a disaster that actually made the rules worse, and then it was followed by a bunch of unecessary revisions and shadow updates rendering people's books obsolete without them ever knowing.

I like most of the RUE changes there were some copy paste fails here and there which may or may not have been corrected in more current printings I have the first printing and that had a lot of issues which were later cleared up with errata.

RUE did not really render anything obsolete most of the revisions were to the current style of secondary skills which is not that different than the original way and adding +2 attacks per melee to most NPC. The palladium system kinda went back and forth on the 2 or 4 attacks for starting players for a while RUE just made a more final ruling on that. Given how me and my players read the RMB we always had been using the 4 attacks per turn starting so the bump up for NPC's was no big deal.

Really for one main "edition" for the last 20+ years the fact that some of the early books are still viable and useful with some minor changes is pretty damn impressive overall.

The ironic thing is palladium gets hit both for power boosting making old books "obsolete" and the complaint that new vehicles/weapons are not much bigger or more powerful than previous ones. Just look at some of the comments from NG1 most still gripe that even with the upgrades robot vehicles have not increased their armor "enough" and complain about their weapons being underpowered.

I think there was a period of 5-8 years where the power did grow somewhat sharply around the time of the CS war book. They caught that around that time and after that point most of the books since then have been pretty consistent. Most of the three galaxies stuff still outclasses earth designs. About the only stuff that is close is the triax 2 stuff and even then overall three galaxies stuff is still better. Fully functioning force fields that don't force you to stop using your weapons, anti gravity/CG technology that allows for MUCH faster mech/fighter designs and overall weapon systems hit harder at longer range than earth weapons.

Lacking force fields makes any earth designed mech incredibly vulnerable/obsolete to any phase weaponry capable opponent.

The kitanai stuff probably could use a revamp atlantis was one of the first few world books so it is pretty long in the tooth. The fact the stuff is only a bit behind the expected curve after all these years is pretty impressive if you ask me. Most game systems in that same period will have gone through 2 or 3 completly different editions and keep regurgitating new copies of the same books every 5 years or so and you see little new content and most is just remixes of stuff they already did.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

The big change in RUE that really screwed up the books was the change to rate of fire, aiming, and called shots. 90% of the weapons out there are garbage/useless because of it.

Why would i ever take a laser rifle that does 2d6 and can only shoot single shots when the L-20 is available for dirt cheap and is better in every way. Just look at the weapons in RUE itself (largely reprinted from the RMB) - the new ROF rules have made it so there are about 5 viable weapons in the whole book, with the rest being massively outclassed.

It's that kind of fundamental rules change (and there were a few more of those scattered throughout the book, like the simultaeous gimping and massive overpowering of Technowizardry all in one stroke) that renders the older books somewhat obsolete; you end up with entire equipment sections of books that are pointless... "oh, hey, another dozen or so energy weapons that all suck because they can only fire single shots all of a sudden" - when those books were written, those weapons were written with the understanding that burst fire was possible.

Look at the poor JA-11, for example. That Ion blaster is now utterly pointless. Why would it even be on there?

[FluidicAztec]

There was a post that talked about this before, but I can't find it now. One of the writers actually said what year a printing had to be to get the "unofficial" revision...any PB writers out there want to chime in?

[kaid]

I would actually have to say I liked the changes to the burst firing rules. Rifts is deadly enough as is without the old burst rules making rifles do close to glitterboy level of damage if you were willing to burn eclips. The damage curve between hand held weapons and vehicle weapons is shallow as is and the old burst rules made most rifles capable of out damaging most vehicular weapons as long as the clips held out.

As with nearly any system there are going to be a few best in class weapons and the rest are not best in class. Things like the ion gun on the juicer rifle is useful still as it is not a laser. If you wind up going against a laser resistant or immune creature ion damage may work more effectively on it. One thing I had always wished for and is something we are starting to see a bit more is extra effects on weapons like increased crit ranges on particle weapons and things like that. If your two main differences between weapons is just pure damage or range unless there is no diversity at all you are going to wind up with a few weapons that are just better.

Triax 2 and NG1 and the big bore weapons are starting to add some extra stuff so its not always just pure damage. I also liked some of the alternative round options for rail guns in NG1.

[Colonel_Tetsuya]

I would actually have to say I liked the changes to the burst firing rules. Rifts is deadly enough as is without the old burst rules making rifles do close to glitterboy level of damage if you were willing to burn eclips. The damage curve between hand held weapons and vehicle weapons is shallow as is and the old burst rules made most rifles capable of out damaging most vehicular weapons as long as the clips held out.

So, for like... one round. And then you're out of ammo. Vehicle weapons are almost always substantially superior to hand-held weapons, even if those hand-held weapons can (occasionaly) do vehicle-like damage because in almost every case, the vehicle weapons have substantially more range and generally infinite payloads.

As with nearly any system there are going to be a few best in class weapons and the rest are not best in class.

This isn't a case of "best in class" vs "not best in class". This is a case of "awesome" and "completely functionally useless in every way". We're not talking about a die or two of damage here, we're talking about double or triple the damage, with the same or better ammo efficiency. Not "best in class" and "not quite best in class".... "useful" and "completely useless".

Things like the ion gun on the juicer rifle is useful still as it is not a laser. If you wind up going against a laser resistant or immune creature ion damage may work more effectively on it.

I cant think of any laser-immune things that aren't also simply energy-immune; however, there is the barest tiniest bit of a point here... except the laser does enough extra damage that even against a laser-resistant target, you're not really pulling ahead much.

One thing I had always wished for and is something we are starting to see a bit more is extra effects on weapons like increased crit ranges on particle weapons and things like that. If your two main differences between weapons is just pure damage or range unless there is no diversity at all you are going to wind up with a few weapons that are just better.

But previously, "just better" wasn't 100-200% better. It was a lot smaller when burst rules were in place. Some of the less-stellar weapons still had reasons to use them (the lower-damage Wilks weapons had superior strike bonuses, and with aimed shots not consuming two actions for some nonsensical reason, were sometimes worthwhile to use over a weapon that did an extra die or two of damage; now, with aimed shots being a great way to lower overall damage per round, those weapons are just junk) and now dont.

Triax 2 and NG1 and the big bore weapons are starting to add some extra stuff so its not always just pure damage. I also liked some of the alternative round options for rail guns in NG1.

Don't even get me started on the pile of pure cheese wish fulfillment that is Big Bore weaponry.

Triax 2 (i haven't read NG1) is probably the most blatant mudflation in Rifts in the last 10 years. (Triax gear is now, with only two or three exceptions, as good as or better than Three Galaxies tech) If NG1 is similar, that's not a good thing for the health of the game.

[Kagashi]

There was a post that talked about this before, but I can't find it now. One of the writers actually said what year a printing had to be to get the "unofficial" revision...any PB writers out there want to chime in?

If your book is printed January 2006 or later, it is likely a Shadow Update.

[kaid]

I would actually have to say I liked the changes to the burst firing rules. Rifts is deadly enough as is without the old burst rules making rifles do close to glitterboy level of damage if you were willing to burn eclips. The damage curve between hand held weapons and vehicle weapons is shallow as is and the old burst rules made most rifles capable of out damaging most vehicular weapons as long as the clips held out.

So, for like... one round. And then you're out of ammo. Vehicle weapons are almost always substantially superior to hand-held weapons, even if those hand-held weapons can (occasionaly) do vehicle-like damage because in almost every case, the vehicle weapons have substantially more range and generally infinite payloads.

I remember the old days when you would have guys sporting bandoliers of 10 or 15 eclips. With those full round bursts especially vs the body armor of the time it was pretty much one burst one kill. If you have a group of 5 or so people doing that it was almost impossible to get a good challenge for them without swinging the other way and misting PC's every other encounter. To this day hand held weapon damage is in general to high and with the burst stuff its worse and the old burst rules worse yet.

As with nearly any system there are going to be a few best in class weapons and the rest are not best in class.

This isn't a case of "best in class" vs "not best in class". This is a case of "awesome" and "completely functionally useless in every way". We're not talking about a die or two of damage here, we're talking about double or triple the damage, with the same or better ammo efficiency. Not "best in class" and "not quite best in class".... "useful" and "completely useless".

If the weapons are still capable of doing MDC damage at a range then they are not completly useless. They may not be ideal or optimal but they still serve their purpose of killing MDC opponents. Honestly my biggest gripe is not vs the single fire weapons it is the pulse fire weapons. They in general do to high of damage for hand held weapons and it is what causes the vehicle weapon scaling to look bad.

Things like the ion gun on the juicer rifle is useful still as it is not a laser. If you wind up going against a laser resistant or immune creature ion damage may work more effectively on it.

I cant think of any laser-immune things that aren't also simply energy-immune; however, there is the barest tiniest bit of a point here... except the laser does enough extra damage that even against a laser-resistant target, you're not really pulling ahead much.

Well from rifts england there are the children of the sun with their light manipulation powers I am pretty sure they are completely immune to lasers but not other forms of energy. Super powers of light manipulation as well and there are are some crystal critters that I cannot recall the name of that are immune to laser fire but not ionic energy. So is the ion blaster ideal no but the more different energy and damage types at your finger tips the better.

One thing I had always wished for and is something we are starting to see a bit more is extra effects on weapons like increased crit ranges on particle weapons and things like that. If your two main differences between weapons is just pure damage or range unless there is no diversity at all you are going to wind up with a few weapons that are just better.

But previously, "just better" wasn't 100-200% better. It was a lot smaller when burst rules were in place. Some of the less-stellar weapons still had reasons to use them (the lower-damage Wilks weapons had superior strike bonuses, and with aimed shots not consuming two actions for some nonsensical reason, were sometimes worthwhile to use over a weapon that did an extra die or two of damage; now, with aimed shots being a great way to lower overall damage per round, those weapons are just junk) and now dont.

Triax 2 and NG1 and the big bore weapons are starting to add some extra stuff so its not always just pure damage. I also liked some of the alternative round options for rail guns in NG1.

Don't even get me started on the pile of pure cheese wish fulfillment that is Big Bore weaponry.

Triax 2 (i haven't read NG1) is probably the most blatant mudflation in Rifts in the last 10 years. (Triax gear is now, with only two or three exceptions, as good as or better than Three Galaxies tech) If NG1 is similar, that's not a good thing for the health of the game.

I never had much problem with the big bore it is a decent if lower damage in general low range kinetic type attack which is nice vs casters doing immune to energy on you. The highest damage BB weapon does 1d6x10 with I think a 12 round burst with a whopping range of 600 feet. So basically pretty high damage but at pistol ranges and uses consumable munitions that you cannot replenish by hand waving an eclip recharger. The longest range of the BB weapons I think is 2000 feet for the BB rail gun but the max damage on that is like 5d6 on its highest burst which these days is high end pistol damage.


The NG1 stuff is at its strongest around the level of the CS war stuff but most of it is a bit behind. less armor than the front line CS units and slower. The advantages is they have a lot of different models to better fit specific needs/desires and some have some pretty serious configurability options. The triax and triax 2 stuff is better than what the CS and NG1 have. In raw damage and MDC the triax stuff is getting close to three galaxies level tech but they still lack a few important techs to be better. The big thing is lack of always on force fields without that as nasty as the triax 2 stuff is one goon with a phase blaster will take the pilot out fast and then your war machine is a statue. The other thing is lack of contra gravity tech so their flying robots while fast still are not in the league of things like the silver hawk which is almost as good as a small space fighter for speed wise.


Some edits for formatting.

[Tor]

Oh yeah, also the shadow update people have told me about with CWC where they rewrote Commando and took out the auto body flip, which I dub a new version of the skill which supplements rather than replaces the original version or else Rifts canon continuity's unreliable.

[Kagashi]

Oh yeah, also the shadow update people have told me about with CWC where they rewrote Commando and took out the auto body flip, which I dub a new version of the skill which supplements rather than replaces the original version or else Rifts canon continuity's unreliable.

Yep it's gone.

Furthermore, when the Quick Flex Aliens were reconned in the Shadow Update CWC so their autododge abilities were more inline with RUE autododge rules (naming specific bonuses to autododge as opposed to just saying "has autododge"), the bonus differs than the description in D-Bees of North America.

D-Bees bonuses gives Quick Flex AD bonuses as they level. the Shadow Update CWC gives a static +3, regardless of level. Again, strengthening your (and mine) disappointment of continuity.

[Tor]

Juicers and QFs are gettin' slower, mages are gettin' faster. Guns' tech is reducing. Only explanation: multiple universes.

Sometimes Superman is stronger in one dimension than in another. Must be like that.

[Nekira Sudacne]

Juicers and QFs are gettin' slower, mages are gettin' faster. Guns' tech is reducing. Only explanation: multiple universes.

Sometimes Superman is stronger in one dimension than in another. Must be like that.

That, or there's a massively powerful alien intelligence rewriting the laws of the origional that must be stopped...

[Kagashi]

i blame XY..

as for metzla and kittani what were the specific changes?
how many extra attacks each caste got?
I added the eMP effects to all Metzlan energy blasts in my games..

Ill prolly get banned for posting every change. Even though PB doesnt seem to want you to know the changes were made in the first place.

[kaid]

I am pretty sure everything got 2 more attacks per melee to put it in line with the palladium RUE rule clarification stating everybody has 2 attacks in addition to attacks given by HTH skills so nearly everybody starts with 3 or 4 attacks where as before with the RMB many people were using it as 1 or 2 attacks per melee.

What palladium did with these is nothing more than what most companies do with later printings. There will be corrections and errata added to them and slight changes over time of there was some rule clarification. The ones with major content changes are labled as revised such as the federation of magic where they pulled all the spells/tw items which were put in the book of magic and added more information about dweaomer.

[Kagashi]

I am pretty sure everything got 2 more attacks per melee to put it in line with the palladium RUE rule clarification stating everybody has 2 attacks in addition to attacks given by HTH skills so nearly everybody starts with 3 or 4 attacks where as before with the RMB many people were using it as 1 or 2 attacks per melee.

Not quite. RCCs like Kittani still retain their old wordings because their attacks were always based off of h2h skills. So it wouldnt matter if you were using RMB or RUE, there would be no reason to change the text in the RCC description.

The changes comes exclusively to those with static APM (not based off of H2H or level), but yes +2 seems to be the norm.

However, its the Splugorth Slaver which differs between book to book, even among the "current" revisions.
Original SB1: 10 APM
Original WB1: 10 APM
Shadow WB1: 12 APM
SB1:RaE: 16 APM (plus SIX from the original monster!)

[Tor]

or there's a massively powerful alien intelligence rewriting the laws of the origional that must be stopped...

Not even necessarily an AI... if you can go back in time and are smart enough, know what changes to make... reality can be rewritten.

I blame Renet.

[Nekira Sudacne]

or there's a massively powerful alien intelligence rewriting the laws of the origional that must be stopped...

Not even necessarily an AI... if you can go back in time and are smart enough, know what changes to make... reality can be rewritten.

I blame Renet.

Ya know, it would be hilarious if we really did blame all palladium continuity errors on TMNT time lords.

[Eashamahel]

Oh man, the Slaver with 16 attacks...

Slavers were one of my all-time favourite big bad-guys for RIFTS, but I tried running a slave barge recently (with the 16) and it was bogglingly difficult.

[kaid]

Oh man, the Slaver with 16 attacks...

Slavers were one of my all-time favourite big bad-guys for RIFTS, but I tried running a slave barge recently (with the 16) and it was bogglingly difficult.

They are pretty weird. If you just look at the stats it looks like it in theory is kinda weak its main guns are not that strong and it really does not have that much pure MDC but with the shield auto refreshing so fast after you take it out and coming back at full strength and their crazy number of attacks they can burn on dodges even without the warrior women who also have some pretty impressive amounts of attacks per round slavers are nasty.

Probably the fact that they don't have any real crazy main guns on their barge makes them doable at all.


The best way to take them is if you have some kind of really heavy damage thing with you something like a glitterboy or other heavy mech. Something that can punch the shield down every time it blips up. The barge does not have that much MDC on its own so if you can keep the shield more or less suppressed you can kill them but its hard. Added to that you have 4-5 altaran warrior women who have 100 MDC magic shields they can put up three times during the fight means you have to do a LOT of damage and do it pretty consistently to take them out.

[Eashamahel]

Yep, with real firepower they are a joke, without it, you are screwed, they are very well suited to their role of slaving and control, just as the Kydians are for their role of front line combat.

Still the 16 attacks is enough over the basic that it can show the akwardness of the 'you go, I go, you go, I go, I go, I go, new round' combat system. Using the looser story system, where the Slaver can burn multiple attacks ('a tentacle jabs forward at you while the slaver shoots at him and swats away that guy') works a lot better for them.

[drewkitty ~..~]

snip... and the dragons were removed because PB wanted to make a Rifts version of Dragons & Gods (but haven't yet).

And here I thought they left the dragons out of the RCB1r & RDC because they had just revised them in the PF:D&G book.

I think the idea of making a R:D&G book is just stupid. It's not like they need to just because the rifters will not buy any 'Non-Rifts' game books, even if it will spite themselves by missing out on the new game stats for dragons in the PF:D&G book.

Maybe if people stop hyping the "awesomeness" of rifts (which is not really all that awesome) and stop dissing PF and the other settings (which are not bad), then maybe the rifters will stop Yelling for a "NEW RIFTS!!!!!" book instead of just buying the "Already Published" book.

I for one will not be buying any more "revised" rifts books because they are using RUE are the standard instead of making things better.

[Eashamahel]

I agree with the thought behind your last sentence.

[eliakon]

snip... and the dragons were removed because PB wanted to make a Rifts version of Dragons & Gods (but haven't yet).

And here I thought they left the dragons out of the RCB1r & RDC because they had just revised them in the PF:D&G book.

I think the idea of making a R:D&G book is just stupid. It's not like they need to just because the rifters will not buy any 'Non-Rifts' game books, even if it will spite themselves by missing out on the new game stats for dragons in the PF:D&G book.

Maybe if people stop hyping the "awesomeness" of rifts (which is not really all that awesome) and stop dissing PF and the other settings (which are not bad), then maybe the rifters will stop Yelling for a "NEW RIFTS!!!!!" book instead of just buying the "Already Published" book.

I for one will not be buying any more "revised" rifts books because they are using RUE are the standard instead of making things better.

Well since this *IS* a thread in the Rifts forum, I would suspect that most of the people here....play rifts That said. I was not aware that the PF D&G book covered all the gods of rifts earth. Can you tell me the page numbers in it for the Splugorth, Russian, Norse, Indian, South American, Japanese, Chinese, Native American.......hrm, sounds like there is enough stuff there to support an entire book......especially since ALL the OLD gods write-ups are totally obsolete. Look at the Rifts Africa gods vs the D&G version of the same gods. Totally out of whack, and if THOSE gods got special new primal powers, what about all the OTHER gods, you know the gods that will never be relevant to a PF game?

[drewkitty ~..~]

The most "gods of earth" are covered in the RCB2 Pantheons......

So there is ANOTHER reason the Rifts D&G idea is stupid.

The Russian gods were presented in a Rifter if I am remembering correctly.

There are no Japanese "gods", there are only spirits or kami. With some greater and others lesser.

Chinese gods....were to be in MC2 then got moved to RChina3...so who knows when/if they will ever be published in a PB game book. The delay is that those books were slated in for Erik W to write.
Besides with the chinese there is ancestor worship mixed in to the mix so there is a billion little 'gods' along with the taoist jade emp. pantheon.

Native Am.(north) like with Japan...they just have a range of spirits. Which the greater ones are in Spirit West.

SA gods are in the SA books.

So it would not just be a single book they would have to do. PB would have to 'revise' the RCB2 to start, Then collect & revise the gods found in the different worldbooks. And then write up the text for those gods or spirits that were not already written up.


The Main reason for NOT doing a RD&G still stands.
They would be using RUE are the standard, instead of making things better.