Effects of ley lines on magic

[runebeo]

The old rules were kinda cool but our gm almost never allowed us to benfit from them, now we always hanging around the lines and our gm don't care.

[random_username]

Probably done for several reasons. A couple easy ones:

- Techno-Wizardry/Magic Item Creation abuse via early RMB rules: technically legit to perform the conversion/creation at a ley line nexus for the x3 damage modifier to the Conversion/Creation Process. Though I do miss my TX-30 Ion Pulse Rifle being TW converted to inflict 27D6 on a pulse shot (normal convert 3D6 single shot, 9D6 3-pulse shot = x3 = 9D6 single shot, 27D6 3-pulse shot). Would have my Techno-Wizard characters run around with two, walk up to the side of non-moving vehicles/robot vehicles/power armors press both muzzles to the side of them and pull both triggers (54D6 Ion Damage). VS non-moving it was basically a can't miss touch attack. The nexus mods seemed to be about the only reason to actually bother with TW OCC at the time. Otherwise you basically ran around in a T-Shirt with "Techno-Wizardry Yay!" written on it. Then people shot you dead. "Yay!"

- Magic Types and OCCs have been extensively explored, expanded, and revised. The extra bonus damage was probably considered 'over the top' (especially with spells such as Annihilate). Over-the-top like having a double-barreled Boom Gun.

- Ironically allowing it boost Psi-Damage by a one or two dice (RUE) generally just offends psi-enthusiasts. Until they go old school general RPG and switch their damage ratings to the nearest large die when "buffed" by ley lines.
2D6 Psi-Damage now 1D12, 3D6 = 1D20, 5D6 = 1D30, 7D6 = 2D20, 10D6 = 2D30, 17D6 to 2D6x10 = 1D100. Then they'll enjoy the extra die or two
"Whaddya mean your Psyscape Master Psionic Cyber-Knight just hit that target for 3D100 MD from each of his paired psi-swords." "Yeah 4D6x10 MD paired wasn't enough, now its 6D100 MD paired at a nexus." Funnier still when damage range is 6 to 600 MD. Now if only you can find a GM that will allow it

[Nekira Sudacne]

is it just 50% increase to range and duration now?!?!?! what happened to boosting the damage? seems kinda bunk that psionics still get a boost in damage from ley lines(albeit a small one) but magic doesnt anymore even though ley lines are supposed to be pure magical energy not pure psionic energy. did i miss something? struck me as odd and thought i would ask about it. if this is the new rules, does anyone still use the old rules or modify the new ones and how?

Psionics don't get a damage boost at ley lines, only Nexi.

[grandmaster z0b]

is it just 50% increase to range and duration now?!?!?! what happened to boosting the damage? seems kinda bunk that psionics still get a boost in damage from ley lines(albeit a small one) but magic doesnt anymore even though ley lines are supposed to be pure magical energy not pure psionic energy. did i miss something? struck me as odd and thought i would ask about it. if this is the new rules, does anyone still use the old rules or modify the new ones and how?

Psionics don't get a damage boost at ley lines, only Nexi.

Wrong, all psychics get a boost on a ley line, page 366 of RUE.

[Incriptus]

could you do me a favor and remind me of which page discribes the effect of ley lines on magic [it was easy for me to find the effect of ley lines on psionics, but for some reason the magic page elluded me last night]

[Jorel]

186. I used the Quick Find Mini-Index.

[glitterboy2098]

with magic, the main advantage is the extra PPE available on a leyline/nexus. when combined with the faster casting times from RUE, it means a mage can fight just as well as they used to, while actually being more flexible.

before, you were stuck with 1 or 2 spells a melee, so you needed that damage boost. now you can volley off the same spell 2-3 time more often, though you lose the extra damage.

[runebeo]

is it just 50% increase to range and duration now?!?!?! what happened to boosting the damage? seems kinda bunk that psionics still get a boost in damage from ley lines(albeit a small one) but magic doesnt anymore even though ley lines are supposed to be pure magical energy not pure psionic energy. did i miss something? struck me as odd and thought i would ask about it. if this is the new rules, does anyone still use the old rules or modify the new ones and how?

Psionics don't get a damage boost at ley lines, only Nexi.

Wrong, all psychics get a boost on a ley line, page 366 of RUE.

Holy biscuits! Nekira was wrong! I don't think I've ever seen that before.

RUE needs to reorganized, the rules on psionics & magic and the boost they receive from ley lines seem hidden. I had to use a highlighter to mark them and still forget where they are.

[grandmaster z0b]

is it just 50% increase to range and duration now?!?!?! what happened to boosting the damage? seems kinda bunk that psionics still get a boost in damage from ley lines(albeit a small one) but magic doesnt anymore even though ley lines are supposed to be pure magical energy not pure psionic energy. did i miss something? struck me as odd and thought i would ask about it. if this is the new rules, does anyone still use the old rules or modify the new ones and how?

Psionics don't get a damage boost at ley lines, only Nexi.

Wrong, all psychics get a boost on a ley line, page 366 of RUE.

Holy biscuits! Nekira was wrong! I don't think I've ever seen that before.

Trust me it's not the first time

The problem I have with Psychics getting a bonus and not mages is that it seems illogical. We have these huge rivers of pure magic energy flowing across the planet, they have an effect strong enough to increase the damage of psychic powers but not magic?

I see why the old x2 damage on a ley line and x3 at a nexus was removed now that mages can cast spells quicker, but it should have also been removed for psychics, or at least the damage bonus for psychics and mages should be equal.

Secondly the rules are contradictory and inconsistent: Mind Melters and Bursters get the damage of psychic powers doubled at a nexus but it doesn't say anything about damage being increased at the ley line. Yet the rules on page 366 clearly state that damage is increased at a ley line. Also the rules on page 366 aren't very consistent because they state that "Damage from a psionic attack is increased by one additional die when on a ley line and increased by two extra damage dice when at a nexus point." so a power that does one die of damage (say a mind bolt) is actually doubled at a ley line and tripled at a nexus point.

I'm going to house rule that the same rules that apply to psychics on page 366 of RUE apply to mages and that spells cast by Ley Line Walkers and other true spell casters get the bonus listed for Mind Melters and Bursters (damage doubled when at a nexus).

[Prysus]

Greetings and Salutations. Well, I guess I don't see much of a problem personally. Now I see the argument, but I guess it just doesn't feel so illogical to me. First, I'll state I don't play that much Rifts, so if I'm missing something Rifts specific (beyond the rule in R:UE which I do have) then maybe that will explain why I don't have a problem with it. But I'll explain my logic.

Ley Lines/Nexus Points: Pure raw magic (i.e. P.P.E.).

Magic Spells: Affects used by taking P.P.E., channeling it, and creating something new. When on a ley line or nexus point, the mage may draw upon this P.P.E. Additionally, the ambient P.P.E. in the area helps keep a spell charged (increased range and duration).

Psionics: Created by the individual burning P.P.E. (that's in the book). This expended P.P.E. is infused into the person's mind and being. So, a psychic at these areas receive an instinctive/natural boost. This doesn't just give their abilities a charge, but the very person! The supercharged mind has different effects. It's a shorter range and duration than magic spells (I think), but does slightly more damage due to the extra boost.

While it's still a ley line, magic and psionics are NOT the same thing. I know, everyone is going to say they already know that, but then they expect it to have the same affects. Things just aren't that easy all the time. It's the same tool, but used very differently. The same as I wouldn't expect the same affect from someone shooting a gun and someone bashing a person over the head with a gun to have the same results. Same tool, different use.

Anyways, that's just my take on it. I don't see an issue because one is an outside source and one an internal source. Now I know P.P.E. is internal too, but it's more of a storage/pool. I.S.P. is also a storage/pool. However, for a psychic, P.P.E. is a part of their internal power. I don't know, maybe that doesn't make sense to everyone else. At the very least, it makes sense somewhere in my mind. Thank you for your time and patience, please have a nice day. Farewell and safe journeys to all.

[grandmaster z0b]

I suppose that part of the problem is that the original Rifts book stated that ley lines were rivers of magic energy and that the power of magic was increased by being nearby. Damage was just a part of that, it went on to explain why ley lines and nexus points were so important to mages. Psychics on the other hand got less of a boost because their powers came from within.

Now the new rules seem to contradict this and basically state that psychic powers are more influenced by ley lines and nexus points than magic, which really doesn't sit well with me.

[Incriptus]

186. I used the Quick Find Mini-Index.

Yeah I saw that and it explained how they get extra PPE but I didn't see the line about the increase in range and duration.