Rifts Greenland

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Rifts Greenland

Unread post by wildhood »

Will there be a World book on Rifts Greenland? It will be a first in RPG history if PB wrote one.
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by The Galactus Kid »

Nothing in the works now, that i know of.
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

nothing in the works, and to be honest, i can't think of much you could do with it. the inuit certainly deserve some more attention, but i don't think you could make a full sourcebook out of it. and it's not like the Arctic region has terribly much to work with otherwise.

you could invent new things for it, but odds are they'd involve so many improbabilities as to come off forced, fake.

if you want to give it a shot, feel free to write up a treatment and propose it to kevin! or submit it ot the rifter.
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by wildhood »

The only things I could write for Greenland are having a Free Quebec have a Naval Base on the westside. A Secret Pirate Trading Port & a NGR Naval Base & Air Strip on the westside of Greenland.
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by Balabanto »

Nonsense. Greenland is the perfect staging ground for Cyber-Hood and his Merry Men to take back England from Alien Intelligence New Camelot Knights.
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by Balabanto »

I've always believed that whenever tyranny really threatened England, that Robin Hood would somehow show up. That would be the campaign I'd love to run in England if I ran one there.

Plus, if you're not watching the latest BBC version of Robin Hood, go to Itunes and get it. It's awesome. Jonas Armstrong really IS Robin Hood, and the acting is fantastic.
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by taalismn »

Zerebus wrote:Ah. Greenland. The perfect staging area for........................ uh...... Vikings?



Neo-Vikings, at the helm of giant elemental ice aircraft carriers..Maybe an alien pantheon of ice invading to bring a nice ice age to Earth, prior to freezing the whole planet solid....
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

if i have my way, "Neo-vikings" will not exist in RIFTS...
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by Natasha »

glitterboy2098 wrote:if i have my way, "Neo-vikings" will not exist in RIFTS...

If there's anything I can do to help you, say the word.
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by Balabanto »

Agreed. No Neo_Vikings
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by Lucas »

:badbad: well there goes my first rifter submission....god guys just take the wind out of my sails :badbad: :badbad: :badbad:





PS. i am joking
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by csbioborg »

the only cliche I want and it will be the only one that you guys won't have

cowboys knights injuns and illnois nazis and you don't want an army of odin's chosen people going a viking on the Splugorth?
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

there are only so many slots for corny copies of historical stereotypes. the vikings were just too slow in getting in line...
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by taalismn »

How about Loki's Raiders?
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by Lucas »

oh good call
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by Natasha »

Lucas wrote:oh good call

No.
A good call is like, "come in my office I need to tell something. You don't have to work this week and you just got a 25% raise!"
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by wildhood »

Hey, this forum is about Greenland & Greenland is part of North America. Any one have any ideas in what to put or whats happening Greenland?
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by Natasha »

Mephisto wrote:
Natasha wrote:
Lucas wrote:oh good call

No.
A good call is like, "come in my office I need to tell something. You don't have to work this week and you just got a 25% raise!"


Sounds like a politician to me.

;-)
I may have picked it up from one.
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by Lucas »

and giants don't forget the giants
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by csbioborg »

Lucas wrote:and giants don't forget the giants



and a portal to Jutunheim
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by Balabanto »

Glitterboy Pilot wrote:hmm greenland. land of werebears, winterized xiclitic, dragons, and absolutely no human life. well i think it would be cool to make one land region just be an adventureland with lots of pre rifts treasures to get guarded by incredibly hard monsters and evil things.


The number of pre-rifts treasures in Greenland is microscopic compared to the size of the landmass. You're better off with a bunch of winter kingdoms.
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by Balabanto »

Hans wrote:I just had a thought.

What if Greenland in Rifts is actually Green?

Steaming jungles, lush wilderness, surrounded by ice and glaciers.

Litterally a war between Hot versus Cold?


I would LOVE that! That is awesome.
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by taalismn »

Balabanto wrote:
Hans wrote:I just had a thought.

What if Greenland in Rifts is actually Green?

Steaming jungles, lush wilderness, surrounded by ice and glaciers.

Litterally a war between Hot versus Cold?


I would LOVE that! That is awesome.


It's all a powerful illusion...the moment you take off your environmental gear to go basking in all that warmth, the Frost Giants freeze you solid....at the very least, you'll be losing your more delicate appendages to severe frostbite... :twisted:
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"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
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For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by Ziggurat the Eternal »

I have the Arctic Circle Netbook, If someone can tell me how to put it where you can find it, I will. Its seriously pretty awesome. I hate to hate on Canada, But the Netbook is so much more worthwhile. And I wont even Charge for it. :mrgreen:
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by The Dark Elf »

Greenland is really green and iceland is really made of ice but some elemental fusionists melted it and now Greenland is completely under water - see rifts underseas. :clown:

Yes i know the size of Greenland and the size of iceland, its just a joke.
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by boring7 »

I've been bandying about an idea for Greenland recently and decided to rez and old thread instead of making a new one.

Greenland is actually quite mineral rich, it's just under such deep sheets of ice that mining it would be as hard as mining asteroids (and involve much of the same artificial habitat challenges). Moreover it's BIG, large chunk of real estate sitting above the water line if you can dig through the ice and snow to get to it.

Moreover no one goes there. Even now, IRL, there's only 50k people there and they're all fishers who live off the sea. This creates problems and opportunities both.

So two ideas came to mind that work together quite well: the first is your standard Big Mystery Group that no one ever sees. The main visible parts being the "Dark Steel Fortress" which is a giant (50 stories high and 3 times as wide) weird-architecture fortress made of your standard Mystery Alloy (really high MDC per inch, seems to be magic AND tech) which folks call Dark Steel and the Dark Steel Collosus (Collosi?) which are 10-30 meter tall humanoid (artistic license specifics are still undetermined) metal things stomping about on patrol being vague yet menacing and mysterious. Dark Steel always seems to operate at about 101 degrees Celsius so they're constantly generating steam and no one knows how the big collosi don't fall over from the steam, it's unclear if things are magic, tech, or both (probably both) and everything's tanky as heck (because otherwise it would be too easy to roll and answer all the supposed mysteries).

Mystery revealed (because that's how Rifts seems to work) is that it's a haven for displaced Time Travelers from the future who want to take the "long way" back to their appropriate time. The faction that established the place is also building up a massive military force "for the right moment" (no word on what that moment is) but since they keep everything underground and under the ice and extremely low-profile nobody has noticed. Sometimes factions will send forays to poke at the Dark Steel but usually give up after receiving a severe beating.

The OTHER point of interest is the Ice Giants. In a case of names being just as literal as possible, the Ice Giants are the collective name of an entire weird biome of giant plants, giant animals, and even giant neanderthals made entirely of magically-animate frozen water. They're MDC (of course) but super-vulnerable to fire and seem bound to a (large) radius area around a Nexus which doesn't have a rift but does have some weird magic field effects. They're easy enough to kill, but when all you can loot is ice and they melt if taken away from their home there's nothing that makes them worth dealing with in the first place.

Now of course even with underground cities and artificial habitats you've got people who need/want to roam. Folks who got caught up in the system one way or another, different groups that are either living hidden lives or staying in cryo-pods or keeping an ear out for displaced time-travelers that need to be extracted before they muddle up the timeline (whether or not they *want* to be 'rescued'). You've got new spells developed like the magic spell that converts any dead biomass into usable plastics (for computer parts and such) and the means of collecting that biomass (mostly fishing, presumably).

Lots of opportunity for story, plot, or a random deus ex machina after your idiot players SOMEhow managed to break the entire world and you need a secret super-power to stop armageddon from happening.

Not that that ever happens...constantly.
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by Blue_Lion »

The problem is Greenland is over ran by green fungus that makes it actually green for once.

The fungus is totally toxic and can create clouds of poison spores every 1d12 minutes.
(there Greenland is done.)
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by RockJock »

I've always seen Rifts Greenland sort of going with Rifts Iceland and Rifts Scandinavia.

I could see Iceland as being a fairly self sufficient tech enclave, if it isn't all wiped out by volcanos. Scandinavia having a mix of small high tech(NGR boat builders?) centers, and wilderness people that take care of themselves for the most part, with Greenland being mainly Inuit as well as a mining center. Maybe even an AI controlled mining complex.

I could see Iceland having a enclave/city that was was rifted into the future, or another dimension during the coming of the Rifts, and later popped back. Maybe have them help Scandinavia get it's feet under it. Sort of have Iceland as the seat of power, and the Norway/Sweden/Finland feeding supporting them for a switch.
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

RockJock wrote:I've always seen Rifts Greenland sort of going with Rifts Iceland and Rifts Scandinavia.

I could see Iceland as being a fairly self sufficient tech enclave, if it isn't all wiped out by volcanos. Scandinavia having a mix of small high tech(NGR boat builders?) centers, and wilderness people that take care of themselves for the most part, with Greenland being mainly Inuit as well as a mining center. Maybe even an AI controlled mining complex.

I could see Iceland having a enclave/city that was was rifted into the future, or another dimension during the coming of the Rifts, and later popped back. Maybe have them help Scandinavia get it's feet under it. Sort of have Iceland as the seat of power, and the Norway/Sweden/Finland feeding supporting them for a switch.



i currently have nothing on Greenland. while it is currently legally part of Denmark, it has few ties to that nation aside from a bit of history, and given its geographic location, i generally perceive it being better suited to a North American focused worldbook. a Canada 2 or something like that.

i do have plans for iceland, although they may or may not appear in Rifts:Scandinavia. (will depend on if i have room after covering Norway, Sweden, and Finland) note that time-rifted cities do not feature (i would rather leave Japan as the only recipient of that concept.. it makes a lot more sense for japan as well, since iceland during the golden age would not likely to have much to offer post-cataclysm europe, being very dependent on outside resources and not having a military to speak of.)
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by taalismn »

Rifts thrives on the improbable, so radical additions to Greenland are, IMHO, not so contrived as to automatically bomb.
On the other hand, in RL you gotta figure ancient (or rebuilt Golden Age) DEW stations, maybe Golden Age climatic control experiment stations, deep cold repositories, and other super-science experiments that wouldn't mind the pollution pall hanging over the Northern Hemisphere( the South Pole gets all the good stuff, though, because of its isolation and international appeal).
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For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by RockJock »

How in the world did I leave Denmark out?
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

Balabanto wrote:
Glitterboy Pilot wrote:hmm greenland. land of werebears, winterized xiclitic, dragons, and absolutely no human life. well i think it would be cool to make one land region just be an adventureland with lots of pre rifts treasures to get guarded by incredibly hard monsters and evil things.


The number of pre-rifts treasures in Greenland is microscopic compared to the size of the landmass. You're better off with a bunch of winter kingdoms.


Because it is soooo big. You do realize it is smaller than Africa, about the same size as Alaska, only twice the size of Saudi Arabia and fits inside Brazil

http://thetruesize.com

Also Antarctica is smaller than North America.
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by taalismn »

RockJock wrote:How in the world did I leave Denmark out?


All part of the Danes' plan to remain below the radar of the world's attention until their supersecret laboratory-factories on Greenland finish producing their world conquest superweapons.
-------------
"Trouble rather the Tiger in his Lair,
Than the Sage among his Books,
For all the Empires and Kingdoms,
The Armies and Works that you hold Dear,
Are to him but the Playthings of the Moment,
To be turned over with the Flick of a Finger,
And the Turning of a Page"

--------Rudyard Kipling
------------
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

RockJock wrote:How in the world did I leave Denmark out?


wasn't accusing you of doing so? :?:

i was just pointing out that, while the landmass might have legal ties to scandinavia due to various bits of history, it's location is problematic for a scandinavia focused book, and would be better served as being included in a North America focused book, particularly one focusing on the north or north-east of North America.

while i do not think it could sustain a worldbook on its own (really, "big largely empty glaciers" does not exactly promise a lot of page count), if part of a book with stuff fro say, the fairy-lands and (IIRC, currently abandoned) splugorthian naval base of newfoundland, the Free Quebec naval stations of the Labrador coast, and details of what is going on in the many islands and icefields of what is today the canadian territory of Nunavut, it might work. give us some updates on what free quebec and the splugorth are doing in the north atlantic, maybe some new stuff for the Inuit (building off rifts canada and Spirit west), plus whatever weirdness inhabits the glaciers and icepacks of greenland and the north pole..
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by Killer Cyborg »

glitterboy2098 wrote:nothing in the works, and to be honest, i can't think of much you could do with it.


That's the neat thing about Rifts Earth: you can do anything with anything.
I really wish that more writers would.

For example, I'd have Greenland inhabited primarily by inhuman mages who use magic to make the place lush and green with alien vegetation.
For me, Rifts is most fun when it departs from history and cliches, and deals more with the introduction of new elements into our world.
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

Killer Cyborg wrote:
glitterboy2098 wrote:nothing in the works, and to be honest, i can't think of much you could do with it.


That's the neat thing about Rifts Earth: you can do anything with anything.
I really wish that more writers would.

For example, I'd have Greenland inhabited primarily by inhuman mages who use magic to make the place lush and green with alien vegetation.
For me, Rifts is most fun when it departs from history and cliches, and deals more with the introduction of new elements into our world.


not gonna argue. your right that you could do a lot of stuff. i'm just saying that i myself cannot think of anything that actually makes sense and does not jump a shark.

though i would argue that "[macguffin] creates a pocket of exotic jungle in the middle of an ice field" is a scifi cliche used a few too many times in other settings for it to work on its own.

(and to be honest.. if you have to miraculously replace the real world geography and climate with something completely different in order to come up with something to put there.. you've jumped the shark. always work with what is already there.)
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by Killer Cyborg »

glitterboy2098 wrote:
Killer Cyborg wrote:
glitterboy2098 wrote:nothing in the works, and to be honest, i can't think of much you could do with it.


That's the neat thing about Rifts Earth: you can do anything with anything.
I really wish that more writers would.

For example, I'd have Greenland inhabited primarily by inhuman mages who use magic to make the place lush and green with alien vegetation.
For me, Rifts is most fun when it departs from history and cliches, and deals more with the introduction of new elements into our world.


not gonna argue. your right that you could do a lot of stuff. i'm just saying that i myself cannot think of anything that actually makes sense and does not jump a shark.


:ok:

though i would argue that "[macguffin] creates a pocket of exotic jungle in the middle of an ice field" is a scifi cliche used a few too many times in other settings for it to work on its own.


It could work. You'd just have to tweak it a bit.
For example, I dislike that I came up with the idea simply because the region is called "GREENland," but is rather icy. So maybe make the alien flora more of a red or blue color.
Make the aliens dangerous, but benign in their intentions.
Give them enemies, allies, and indifferents.

(and to be honest.. if you have to miraculously replace the real world geography and climate with something completely different in order to come up with something to put there.. you've jumped the shark. always work with what is already there.)


I like Rifts best, as a rule, when it works with real-world geography, within context.
Dinosaur Swamps, for example. The swamps get extended, and I can totally see dinosaurs living in Florida-style swamps.
That fits.

The climate, though, can change. I like the Shifting Zones, where you could have trees one minute, and desert the next.
And between increasing climate change in the real world, and the effects of countless Rifts, and the changes in weather due simply to the appearance of Atlantis (not to mention the growing of the Rockies), climate would be all over the map (so to speak).
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by RockJock »

lol. I was just saying that I had a brain fart on the Danes. Secret weapon......Pickled Herring? Swedish chef? Haunted S-Tanks, Viggens, and Saab 900s??

In all seriousness I see Greenland working as part of the greater Scandinavia whole much better then on it's own. Either as the savior, resource storehouse, or just wilderness that people survive on.
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

Killer Cyborg wrote:
glitterboy2098 wrote:nothing in the works, and to be honest, i can't think of much you could do with it.


That's the neat thing about Rifts Earth: you can do anything with anything.
I really wish that more writers would.

For example, I'd have Greenland inhabited primarily by inhuman mages who use magic to make the place lush and green with alien vegetation.
For me, Rifts is most fun when it departs from history and cliches, and deals more with the introduction of new elements into our world.

Well we actually have an idea of what to expect in Greenland from the old RMB (hardcover) illustrations. Since they aren't paged numbered, on pg161 (Magic overview) it is opposite the Psi-Stalker & Operator picture, the preceding pages before it are titled "A Map of the Americas & Atlantis" and "Map of the American Empire" (with smaller maps titled "The Americas & Atlantis" and "Map of England"). Off hand I don't know if it was addressed in RUE (reprinted color pages) or another book (Canada is absent covering Greenland, though it shows up on a good deal of the regional maps, but nothing new can is really added AFAIK).

According to those "maps" in the old RMB Greenland is:
-cold, icy regions of the Arctic
-with x3 pockets of heavy magic energy (x2 on West coast-ish, x1 more central)
-a single decent sized pocket of an area troubled by things from the Rifts on the SE coast dimensional beings opposite Iceland (which doesn't have any heavy magic/Rift troubles)

So the inhuman mages might work, but the terraforming seems out unless the effort is a post 101 PA effort (maybe more due to RUE's 11# PA date if it reprinted the map).
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by Larsen »

Be careful if you go to Greenland. If you land on the western side, there are horrible lightning storms at sea before you arrive. Once there you will find a very different place then you were expecting. Some say it is a land of advanced beings who may not be as benevolent as them appear, while others claim to have encountered 10 ft tall humans in a town bordering a desert where life sucking creatures wait. Still more have said to have seen flying horses, robotic men, terrifying creatures and much more. If you come from the south you will find scattered villages of people, but you will not be welcomed in. These people are afraid of something, and they don't trust strangers. Making landfall on the eastern side of the island you will find one city,Tasaq, which seems to be in a state of rebuild, there are ruins of older parts and new construction. The people are more trusting than in the south but only slightly, and only seem to build on their city at night. No one comes from the North and it isn't recommended, far too cold that way. No one who goes to the interior of Greenland ever comes back. Be careful if you go to Greenland.

I wrote that up for some players a few years ago, but never used it.
This Greenland is tied to several other parallel versions of Greenland on the west side. The players sail or fly through the nexus storm and wind up in one of the other versions. If any players actually get to Rifts Greenland on the west side they would find, Nuuk and all of the other towns in ruins from civil war. There are boat wrecks all along this shoreline. When the rifts came some of the population became magical. At first they were accepted but eventually some of those who did not change became suspicious, there were disagreements, and fights. Then the monsters came. In an attempt to stop them the magical accidentally tied this Greenland to other versions of Greenland while trying to close the nexus. The survivors scattered to the south and some went further to the eastern side. The people of the south are those that shunned magic and live off the land as best as they can. Those on the east still use magic, but sparingly, as they are afraid of drawing attention to themselves and bringing back the monsters from their history. The interior is occupied by creatures that came from the nexus all those centuries ago. Some of them have terraformed the land, but most that survived came from a tundra like area to begin with.

I do have to say I like your idea of blue and red plant life, aliens, and new societal system though kc.
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by boring7 »

Zer0 Kay wrote:
Balabanto wrote:
Glitterboy Pilot wrote:hmm greenland. land of werebears, winterized xiclitic, dragons, and absolutely no human life. well i think it would be cool to make one land region just be an adventureland with lots of pre rifts treasures to get guarded by incredibly hard monsters and evil things.


The number of pre-rifts treasures in Greenland is microscopic compared to the size of the landmass. You're better off with a bunch of winter kingdoms.


Because it is soooo big. You do realize it is smaller than Africa, about the same size as Alaska, only twice the size of Saudi Arabia and fits inside Brazil

http://thetruesize.com

Also Antarctica is smaller than North America.


From that lovely tool you linked I can see that Greenland is about the size of the CS. That's a lot of room for resources that have pretty much never been tapped due to massive ice sheets.

I'm leery of any "magical climate shift" thing for a couple of reasons, but I have to admit it *is* a common/successful trope. The downside is that a heat bloom in the middle of the arctic messes with climate elsewhere and more importantly they already did it with Mars in Mutants in Orbit. That being said if I were a techno-wizard with access to a warlock (or vice-versa) I would *absolutely* be scouting out frozen tundra biomes and using a Leyline-powered Create Heat effect to do it. I'm having visions of scifi dome cities where it's lush and nearly tropical inside, despite being surrounded by territory as hostile and lifeless as the surface of the moon.
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

it is worth remembering that in the heart of the region (where all the untouched resources are) is under several miles of ice.. and mobile ice at that. go look up [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Iceworm]Project Iceworm[/ul] from the cold war. i think we learned more about greenland and glaciers from the failed attempt to build an under-ice nuclear powered missile base than we ever did with purely scientific efforts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ujx_pND9wg

the TL:DR version is that ice moves, quite rapidly on a geologic scale. and not in any predictable ways. there is a reason that we can talk of glaciers carving out valleys and lakes, their movements while slow, have tremendous power. so you can't exactly just tunnel down the way you would in a mountain. the tunnels would shift and deform, become disjunctured where they pass across one of the multitude of fault lines marking to boundry between one sub-glacier stream to another, etc. the problems of setting up a base on the surface is nothing compared to trying to do so deep under one.

makes me wonder just how weird the planet of Hoth was in star wars (or just how desperate the Rebel Alliance was to build a base there)
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

boring7 wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
Balabanto wrote:
Glitterboy Pilot wrote:hmm greenland. land of werebears, winterized xiclitic, dragons, and absolutely no human life. well i think it would be cool to make one land region just be an adventureland with lots of pre rifts treasures to get guarded by incredibly hard monsters and evil things.


The number of pre-rifts treasures in Greenland is microscopic compared to the size of the landmass. You're better off with a bunch of winter kingdoms.


Because it is soooo big. You do realize it is smaller than Africa, about the same size as Alaska, only twice the size of Saudi Arabia and fits inside Brazil

http://thetruesize.com

Also Antarctica is smaller than North America.


From that lovely tool you linked I can see that Greenland is about the size of the CS. That's a lot of room for resources that have pretty much never been tapped due to massive ice sheets.

I'm leery of any "magical climate shift" thing for a couple of reasons, but I have to admit it *is* a common/successful trope. The downside is that a heat bloom in the middle of the arctic messes with climate elsewhere and more importantly they already did it with Mars in Mutants in Orbit. That being said if I were a techno-wizard with access to a warlock (or vice-versa) I would *absolutely* be scouting out frozen tundra biomes and using a Leyline-powered Create Heat effect to do it. I'm having visions of scifi dome cities where it's lush and nearly tropical inside, despite being surrounded by territory as hostile and lifeless as the surface of the moon.

Never been tapped? Because the dwindling resources and high tech Golden Age wouldn't tap that?
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by boring7 »

Never been tapped IRL, but that's a fair point. Perhaps you'll accept, "far less likely to have been tapped/tapped out than the resources that the CS has been burning through."
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

considering it is actually easier to do space mining than mining under glaciers? i'd say the odds are high that they are untapped.
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

glitterboy2098 wrote:considering it is actually easier to do space mining than mining under glaciers? i'd say the odds are high that they are untapped.


What glaciers if we follow the models of the global warming alarmists of the 70s and 80s then their are no glaciers. :)
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by boring7 »

Zer0 Kay wrote:
glitterboy2098 wrote:considering it is actually easier to do space mining than mining under glaciers? i'd say the odds are high that they are untapped.


What glaciers if we follow the models of the global warming alarmists of the 70s and 80s then their are no glaciers. :)

At that point all the ports that would have moved the drilling equipment are under water.

Related note: Rifts water levels are weird. They rise anywhere from inches to dozens of feet depending on the location.

And given current events, I wouldn't call it alarmism.
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

boring7 wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
glitterboy2098 wrote:considering it is actually easier to do space mining than mining under glaciers? i'd say the odds are high that they are untapped.


What glaciers if we follow the models of the global warming alarmists of the 70s and 80s then their are no glaciers. :)

At that point all the ports that would have moved the drilling equipment are under water.

Related note: Rifts water levels are weird. They rise anywhere from inches to dozens of feet depending on the location.

And given current events, I wouldn't call it alarmism.


Current events?
a·larm·ist
əˈlärməst/
noun
1.
someone who is considered to be exaggerating a danger and so causing needless worry or panic.
synonyms: scaremonger, fearmonger, doomster, doomsayer, Cassandra, Chicken Little
"until I saw the map and radar photos of the hurricane, I thought he was being an alarmist"
adjective
1.
creating needless worry or panic.
"alarmist rumors"

All of the following created needless worry or panic or exaggerated a danger in order to promote a change in civilizations habits.
Spoiler:
1. “Due to global warming, the coming winters in the local regions will become milder.”
Stefan Rahmstorf, Potsdam Institute of Climate Impact Research, University of Potsdam, February 8, 2006

****

2. “Milder winters, drier summers: Climate study shows a need to adapt in Saxony Anhalt.”
Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research, Press Release, January 10, 2010.

****

3. “More heat waves, no snow in the winter… Climate models… over 20 times more precise than the UN IPCC global models. In no other country do we have more precise calculations of climate consequences. They should form the basis for political planning… Temperatures in the wintertime will rise the most… there will be less cold air coming to Central Europe from the east…In the Alps winters will be 2°C warmer already between 2021 and 2050.”

Max Planck Institute for Meteorology, Hamburg, September 2, 2008.

****

4. “The new Germany will be characterized by dry-hot summers and warm-wet winters.”
Wilhelm Gerstengarbe and Peter Werner, Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research (PIK), March 2, 2007

****

5. “Clear climate trends are seen from the computer simulations. Foremost the winter months will be warmer all over Germany. Depending of CO2 emissions, temperatures will rise by up to 4°C, in the Alps by up to 5°C.”
Max Planck Institute for Meteorology, Hamburg, 7 Dec 2009.

****

6. “In summer under certain conditions the scientists reckon with a complete melting of the Arctic sea ice. For Europe we expect an increase in drier and warmer summers. Winters on the other hand will be warmer and wetter.”
Erich Roeckner, Max Planck Institute, Hamburg, 29 Sept 2005.

****

7. “The more than ‘unusually ‘warm January weather is yet ‘another extreme event’, ‘a harbinger of the winters that are ahead of us’. … The global temperature will ‘increase every year by 0.2°C’”
Michael Müller, Socialist, State Secretary in the Federal Ministry of Environment,
Die Zeit, 15 Jan 2007

****

8. “Harsh winters likely will be more seldom and precipitation in the wintertime will be heavier everywhere. However, due to the milder temperatures, it’ll fall more often as rain than as snow.”
Online-Atlas of the Helmholtz-Gemeinschaft, 2010

9. “We’ve mostly had mild winters in which only a few cold months were scattered about, like January 2009. This winter is a cold outlier, but that doesn’t change the picture as a whole. Generally it’s going to get warmer, also in the wintertime.”
Gerhard Müller-Westermeier, German Weather Service (DWD), 26 Jan 2010

****

10. “Winters with strong frost and lots of snow like we had 20 years ago will cease to exist at our latitudes.”
Mojib Latif, Max Planck Institute for Meteorology, Hamburg, 1 April 2000

****

11. “Good bye winter. Never again snow?”
Spiegel, 1 April 2000

****

12. “In the northern part of the continent there likely will be some benefits in the form of reduced cold periods and higher agricultural yields. But the continued increase in temperatures will cancel off these benefits. In some regions up to 60% of the species could die off by 2080.”

3Sat, 26 June 2003

****

13. “Although the magnitude of the trends shows large variation among different models, Miller et al. (2006) find that none of the 14 models exhibits a trend towards a lower NAM index and higher arctic SLP.”
IPCC 2007 4AR, (quoted by Georg Hoffmann)

****

14. “Based on the rising temperature, less snow will be expected regionally. While currently 1/3 of the precipitation in the Alps falls as snow, the snow-share of precipitation by the end of the century could end up being just one sixth.”
Germanwatch, Page 7, Feb 2007

****

15. “Assuming there will be a doubling of CO2 in the atmosphere, as is projected by the year 2030. The consequences could be hotter and drier summers, and winters warmer and wetter. Such a warming will be proportionately higher at higher elevations – and especially will have a powerful impact on the glaciers of the Firn regions.”

and

“ The ski areas that reliably have snow will shift from 1200 meters to 1500 meters elevation by the year 2050; because of the climate prognoses warmer winters have to be anticipated.”
Scinexx Wissenschaft Magazin, 26 Mar 2002

****

16. “Yesterday’s snow… Because temperatures in the Alps are rising quickly, there will be more precipitation in many places. But because it will rain more often than it snows, this will be bad news for tourists. For many ski lifts this means the end of business.”
Daniela Jacob, Max Planck Institute for Meteorology, Hamburg, 8 Aug 2006

****

17. “Spring will begin in January starting in 2030.”
Die Welt, 30 Sept 2010

****

18. “Ice, snow, and frost will disappear, i.e. milder winters” … “Unusually warm winters without snow and ice are now being viewed by many as signs of climate change.”
Schleswig Holstein NABU, 10 Feb 2007

****

19. “Good bye winter… In the northern hemisphere the deviations are much greater according to NOAA calculations, in some areas up to 5°C. That has consequences says DWD meteorologist Müller-Westermeier: When the snowline rises over large areas, the bare ground is warmed up even more by sunlight. This amplifies global warming. A process that is uncontrollable – and for this reason understandably arouses old childhood fears: First the snow disappears, and then winter.”
Die Zeit, 16 Mar 2007

****

20. “Warm in the winter, dry in the summer … Long, hard winters in Germany remain rare: By 2085 large areas of the Alps and Central German Mountains will be almost free of snow. Because air temperatures in winter will rise more quickly than in summer, there will be more precipitation. ‘However, much of it will fall as rain,’ says Daniela Jacob of the Max Planck Institute for Meteorology.”
FOCUS, 24 May 2006

****

21. “Consequences and impacts for regional agriculture: Hotter summers, milder plus shorter winters (palm trees!). Agriculture: More CO2 in the air, higher temperatures, foremost in winter.”
Dr. Michael Schirmer, University of Bremen, presentation of 2 Feb 2007

****

22. “Winters: wet and mild”
Bavarian State Ministry for Agriculture, presentation 23 Aug 2007

****

23. “The climate model prognoses currently indicate that the following climate changes will occur: Increase in minimum temperatures in the winter.”
Chamber of Agriculture of Lower Saxony Date: 6 July 2009

****

24. “Both the prognoses for global climate development and the prognoses for the climatic development of the Fichtel Mountains clearly show a warming of the average temperature, whereby especially the winter months will be greatly impacted.”
Willi Seifert, University of Bayreuth, diploma thesis, p. 203, 7 July 2004

****

25. “Already in the year 2025 the conditions for winter sports in the Fichtel Mountains will develop negatively, especially with regards to ‘natural’ snow conditions and for so-called snow-making potential. A financially viable ski business operation after about the year 2025 appears under these conditions to be extremely improbable (Seifert, 2004)”.
Andreas Matzarakis, University of Freiburg Meteorological Institute, 26 July 2006

****

26. “Skiing among palm trees? … For this reason I would advise no one in the Berchtesgadener Land to invest in a ski-lift. The probability of earning money with the global warming is getting less and less.”
Hartmut Graßl, Director Emeritus,
Max Planck-Institute for Meteorology, Hamburg, page 3, 4 Mar 2006

****

27. “Climate warming leads to an increasingly higher snow line. The number of future ski resorts that can be expected to have snow is reducing. […] Climate change does not only lead to higher temperatures, but also to changes in the precipitation ratios in summer and winter. […] In the wintertime more precipitation is to be anticipated. However, it will fall more often as rain, and less often as snow, in the future.”
Hans Elsasser, Director of the Geographical Institute of the University of Zurich, 4 Mar 2006

****

28. “All climate simulations – global and regional – were carried out at the Deutschen Klimarechenzentrum [German Climate Simulation Center]. […] In the winter months the temperature rise is from 1.5°C to 2°C and stretches from Scandinavia to the Mediterranean Sea. Only in regions that are directly influenced by the Atlantic (Great Britain, Portugal, parts of Spain) will the winter temperature increase be less (Fig. 1).”
Max Planck Institute for Meteorology, Press Release, Date: December 2007/January 2013.

****

29. “By the year 2050 … temperatures will rise 1.5ºC to 2.5°C (summer) and 3°C (winter). … in the summer it will rain up to 40% less and in the winter up to 30% more.
German Federal Department of Highways, 1 Sept 2010

****

30. “We are now at the threshold of making reliable statements about the future.”
Daniela Jacob, Max Planck Institute for Meteorology, Hamburg, page 44, 10/2001

****

31. “The scenarios of climate scientists are unanimous about one thing: In the future in Germany we will have to live with drier and drier summers and a lot more rain in the winters.”
Gerhard Müller-Westermeier, German Weather Service (DWD), 20 May 2010

****

32. “In the wintertime the winds will be more from the west and will bring storms to Germany. Especially in western and southern Germany there will be flooding.” FOCUS / Mojib Latif, Leibniz Institute for Ocean Sciences of the University of Kiel, 27 May 2006.

****

33. “While the increases in the springtime appear as rather modest, the (late)summer and winter months are showing an especially powerful warming trend.”
State Ministry of Environment, Agriculture and Geology, Saxony, p. 133, Schriftenreihe Heft 25/2009.

****

34. “Warm Winters Result From Greenhouse Effect, Columbia Scientists Find, Using NASA Model … Despite appearing as part of a natural climate oscillation, the large increases in wintertime surface temperatures over the continents may therefore be attributable in large part to human activities,”
Science Daily, Dr. Drew Shindell 4 June 1999

****

35. “Within a few years winter snowfall will become a very rare and exciting event. … Children just aren’t going to know what snow is.”
David Viner, Climatic Research Unit, University of East Anglia, 20 March 2000

****

36. “This data confirms what many gardeners believe – winters are not as hard as they used to be. … And if recent trends continue a white Christmas in Wales could certainly be a thing of the past.”
BBC, Dr Jeremy Williams, Bangor University, Lecturer in Geomatics, 20 Dec 2004

****

37. The rise in temperature associated with climate change leads to a general reduction in the proportion of precipitation falling as snow, and a consequent reduction in many areas in the duration of snow cover.”
Global Environmental Change, Nigel W. Arnell, Geographer, 1 Oct 1999

****

38. “Computer models predict that the temperature rise will continue at that accelerated pace if emissions of heat-trapping gases are not reduced, and also predict that warming will be especially pronounced in the wintertime.”
Star News, William K. Stevens, New York Times, 11 Mar 2000

****

39. “In a warmer world, less winter precipitation falls as snow and the melting of winter snow occurs earlier in spring. Even without any changes in precipitation intensity, both of these effects lead to a shift in peak river runoff to winter and early spring, away from summer and autumn.”
Nature, T. P. Barnett et. al., 17 Nov 2005

*****

40. “We are beginning to approximate the kind of warming you should see in the winter season.”
Star News, Mike Changery, National Climatic Data Center, 11 Mar 2000

****

41. “Milder winter temperatures will decrease heavy snowstorms but could cause an increase in freezing rain if average daily temperatures fluctuate about the freezing point.”
IPCC Climate Change, 2001

****

42. “Global climate change is likely to be accompanied by an increase in the frequency and intensity of heat waves, as well as warmer summers and milder winters…9.4.2. Decreased Mortality Resulting from Milder Winters … One study estimates a decrease in annual cold-related deaths of 20,000 in the UK by the 2050s (a reduction of 25%)”
IPCC Climate Change, 2001

****

43. “The lowest winter temperatures are likely to increase more than average winter temperature in northern Europe. …The duration of the snow season is very likely to shorten in all of Europe, and snow depth is likely to decrease in at least most of Europe.”
IPCC Climate Change, 2007

****

44. “Snowlines are going up in altitude all over the world. The idea that we will get less snow is absolutely in line with what we expect from global warming.”
WalesOnline, Sir John Houghton – atmospheric physicist, 30 June 2007

****

45. “In the UK wetter winters are expected which will lead to more extreme rainfall, whereas summers are expected to get drier. However, it is possible under climate change that there could be an increase of extreme rainfall even under general drying.”
Telegraph, Dr. Peter Stott, Met Office, 24 July 2007

****

46. “Winter has gone forever and we should officially bring spring forward instead. … There is no winter any more despite a cold snap before Christmas. It is nothing like years ago when I was younger. There is a real problem with spring because so much is flowering so early year to year.”
Express, Dr Nigel Taylor, Curator of Kew Gardens, 8 Feb 2008

****

47. “The past is no longer a guide to the future. We no longer have a stationary climate,”…
Independent, Dr. Peter Stott, Met Office, 27 Jul 2007

****

48. “It is consistent with the climate change message. It is exactly what we expect winters to be like – warmer and wetter, and dryer and hotter summers. …the winter we have just seen is consistent with the type of weather we expect to see more and more in the future.”
Wayne Elliott, Met Office meteorologist, BBC, 27 Feb 2007

****

49. “ If your decisions depend on what’s happening at these very fine scales of 25 km or even 5 km resolution then you probably shouldn’t be making irreversible investment decisions now.”
Myles Allen, “one of the UK’s leading climate modellers”, Oxford University, 18 June 2009

****

50. “It’s great that the government has decided to put together such a scientifically robust analysis of the potential impacts of climate change in the UK.”
Keith Allott, WWF-UK, 18 June 2009

****

51. “The data collected by experts from the university [of Bangor] suggests that a white Christmas on Snowdon – the tallest mountain in England and Wales – may one day become no more than a memory.”
BBC News, 20 Dec 2004
[BBC 2013: “Snowdon Mountain Railway will be shut over the Easter weekend after it was hit by 30ft (9.1m) snow drifts.”]

****

52. “Spring is arriving earlier each year as a result of climate change, the first ‘conclusive proof’ that global warming is altering the timing of the seasons, scientists announced yesterday.”
Guardian, 26 Aug 2006.

****

53. “Given the increase in the average winter temperature it is obvious that the number of frost days and the number of days that the snow remains, will decline. For Europe the models indicate that cold winters such as at the end of the 20th century, that happened at an average once every ten years, will gradually disappear in the course of the century.” (p. 19), and

“…but it might well be that nothing remains of the snowjoy in the Hautes Fagnes but some yellowed photos because of the climate change … moreover an increase in winter precipitation would certainly not be favorable for recreation!” (p38)
Jean-Pascal van Ypersele and Philippe Marbaix, Greenpeace, 2004

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54. “Shindell’s model predicts that if greenhouse gases continue to increase, winter in the Northern Hemisphere will continue to warm. ‘In our model, we’re seeing a very large signal of global warming and it’s not a naturally occurring thing. It’s most likely linked to greenhouse gases,’ he said.
NASA, GISS, 2 June 1999

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55. “We have seen that in the last years and decades that winters have become much milder than before and that there isn’t nearly as much snowfall. All simulations show this trend will continue in the future and that we have to expect an intense warming in the Alps…especially in the foothills, snow will turn to rain and winter sports will no longer be possible anymore.”
Mojib Latif, Leibnitz Institute for Oceanography, University of Kiel, February 17, 2005

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56. Planning for a snowless future: “Our study is already showing that that there will be a much worse situation in 20 years.”
Christopher Krull, Black Forest Tourism Association / Spiegel, 17 Feb 2005

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57. “Rhineland-Palatinate, as will be the case for all of Central Europe, will be affected by higher than average warming rates and winters with snow disappearing increasingly.”
Prof. Dr. Hartmut Grassl, “internationally renowned meteorologist”, Director Emeritus, Max Planck Institute for Meteorology, Hamburg, 20 Nov 2008

****

58. “With the pace of global warming increasing, some climate change experts predict that the Scottish ski industry will cease to exist within 20 years.”
Guardian, 14 February 2004
[4 January 2013: “Nevis Range, The Lecht, Cairngorm, Glenshee and Glencoe all remain closed today due to the heavy snow and strong winds.”]

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59. “Unfortunately, it’s just getting too hot for the Scottish ski industry.”
David Viner, Climatic Research Unit, University of East Anglia, 14 Feb 2004

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60. “For the Baltic ringed seal, climate change could mean its demise” warned a team of scientists at the Baltic Sea Experiment (Baltex) conference in Goteborg. “This is because the warming leads to the ice on the Baltic Sea to melt earlier and earlier every year.”
Spiegel, 3 June 2006
[The Local 2013: “Late-season freeze sets Baltic ice record … I’ve never seen this much ice this late in the season.”]

****

61. Forecasters Predict More Mild Winter for Europe

Reuters, Nov 09, 2012

FRANKFURT – European weather in the coming winter now looks more likely to be mild than in previous studies, German meteorologist Georg Mueller said in a monthly report.

“The latest runs are generally in favor of a milder than normal winter, especially over northern Europe.”

****

62. “Spring is arriving earlier each year as a result of climate change, the first ‘conclusive proof’ that global warming is altering the timing of the seasons, scientists announced yesterday.”
Guardian, 26 August 2006.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... nvironment

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63. “Given the increase in the average winter temperature it is obvious that the number of frost days and the number of days that the snow remains, will decline. For Europe the models indicate that cold winters such as at the end of the 20th century, that happened at an average once every ten years, will gradually disappear in the course of the century.” (p19)

“…but it might well be that nothing remains of the snowjoy in the Hautes Fagnes but some yellowed photos because of the climate change … moreover an increase in winter precipitation would certainly not be favorable for recreation!” (p38)

Impact of the climate change in Belgium (translated from Dutch).
Jean-Pascal van Ypersele and Philippe Marbaix for Greenpeace, 2004

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64. “The hottest year since 1659 spells global doom”
Telegraph December 14, 2006
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -doom.html

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65. “Jay Wynne from the BBC Weather Centre presents reports for typical days in 2020, 2050 and 2080 as predicted by our experiment.”
BBCs Climate Change Experiment
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/climateexperime ... heuk.shtml

****

66. “Cold winters would gradually disappear.” (p.4)
67. “In Belgium, snow on the ground could become increasingly rare but there would be plenty of grey sky and rain in winter..” (p.6)
The Greenpeace report “Impacts of climate change in Belgium” is available in an abbreviated version in English:
http://www.greenpeace.org/belgium/PageF ... mIB_uk.pdf
Impacts of climate change in Belgium
Jean-Pascal van Ypersele and Philippe Marbaix for Greenpeace, 2004
Climate scientist van Ypersele is Vice Chair of the IPCC.

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68. “Warmer and Wetter Winters in Europe and Western North America Linked to Increasing Greenhouse Gases.”
NASA, June 2, 1999
http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/news/19990602/

****

69. “The global temperature will increase every year by 0.2°C”
Michael Müller, Socialist, State Secretary in the Federal Ministry of Environment, in Die Zeit, January 15, 2007

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70. “Unfortunately, it’s just getting too hot for the Scottish ski industry. It is very vulnerable to climate change; the resorts have always been marginal in terms of snow and, as the rate of climate change increases, it is hard to see a long-term future.”
David Viner, of the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia.
February 14, 2004
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/feb/ ... e.scotland

****

71. “Climate change will have the effect of pushing more and more winter sports higher and higher up mountains,…”
Rolf Burki and his colleagues at the University of Zurich
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/d ... ciencenews

****

72. “ In the future, snowdrops will be out in January, primroses in February, mayflowers and lilac in April and wild roses in May, the ponds will be full of tadpoles in March and a month later even the oaks will be in full leaf. If that isn’t enough, autumn probably won’t begin until October.”
Geraint Smith, Science Correspondent, Standard
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/british- ... 58532.html

****

73. “The West Side Highway [which runs along the Hudson River] will be under water. And there will be tape across the windows across the street because of high winds. And the same birds won’t be there. The trees in the median strip will change….There will be more police cars….[since] you know what happens to crime when the heat goes up.”
Dr. James Hansen, 1988, in an interview with author Rob Reiss.
Reiss asked how the greenhouse effect was likely to affect the neighborhood below Hansen’s office in NYC in the next 20 years.

****

74. March 20, 2000, from The Independent, According to Dr David Viner of the University of East Anglia Climatic Research Unit, snowfall in Britain would become “a very rare and exciting event” and “children just aren’t going to know what snow is.”

****

75. September 2006, Arnold Schwarzenegger signing California’s anti-emissions law, “We simply must do everything in our power to slow down global warming before it is too late…The science is clear. The global warming debate is over.”

****

76. 1990 Actress Meryl Streep “By the year 2000 – that’s less than ten years away–earth’s climate will be warmer than it’s been in over 100,000 years. If we don’t do something, there’ll be enormous calamities in a very short time.”

****

77. April 2008, Media Mogul Ted Turner on Charlie Rose (On not taking drastic action to correct global warming) “Not doing it will be catastrophic. We’ll be eight degrees hotter in ten, not ten but 30 or 40 years and basically none of the crops will grow. Most of the people will have died and the rest of us will be cannibals.”
[Strictly speaking, this is not a failed prediction. It won’t be until at least 2048 that our church-going and pie-baking neighbors come after us for their noonday meal. But the prediction is so bizarre that it is included it here.]

****

78. January 1970 Life Magazine “Scientists have solid experimental and theoretical evidence to support …the following predictions: In a decade, urban dwellers will have to wear gas masks to survive air pollution…by 1985 air pollution will have reduced the amount of sunlight reaching earth by one half…”

****

79. “Earth Day” 1970 Kenneth Watt, ecologist: “At the present rate of nitrogen build-up, it’s only a matter of time before light will be filtered out of the atmosphere and none of our land will be usable.”

****

80. “Earth Day” 1970 Kenneth Watt, ecologist: “The world has been chilling sharply for about twenty years. If present trends continue, the world will be about four degrees colder for the global mean temperature in 1990, but eleven degrees colder in the year 2000. This is about twice what it would take to put us into an ice age.”

****

81. April 28, 1975 Newsweek “There are ominous signs that Earth’s weather patterns have begun to change dramatically….The evidence in support of these predictions has now begun to accumulate so massively that meteorologists are hard-pressed to keep up with it….The central fact is that…the earth’s climate seems to be cooling down…If the climate change is as profound as some of the pessimists fear, the resulting famines could be catastrophic.”

****

82. 1976 Lowell Ponte in “The Cooling,”: “This cooling has already killed hundreds of thousands of people. If it continues and no strong action is taken, it will cause world famine, world chaos and world war, and this could all come about before the year 2000.”

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83. July 9, 1971, Washington Post: “In the next 50 years fine dust that humans discharge into the atmosphere by burning fossil fuel will screen out so much of the sun’s rays that the Earth’s average temperature could fall by six degrees. Sustained emissions over five to ten years, could be sufficient to trigger an ice age.”

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84. June, 1975, Nigel Calder in International Wildlife: “The continued rapid cooling of the earth since WWII is in accord with the increase in global air pollution associated with industrialization, mechanization, urbanization and exploding population.”

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85. June 30, 1989, Associated Press: U.N. OFFICIAL PREDICTS DISASTER, SAYS GREENHOUSE EFFECT COULD WIPE SOME NATIONS OFF MAP–entire nations could be wiped off the face of the earth by rising sea levels if global warming is not reversed by the year 2000. Coastal flooding and crop failures would create an exodus of ‘eco-refugees,’ threatening political chaos,” said Brown, director of the New York office of the U.N. Environment Program. He added that governments have a 10-year window of opportunity to solve the greenhouse effect.

****

86. Sept 19, 1989, St. Louis Post-Dispatch: “New York will probably be like Florida 15 years from now.”

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87. December 5, 1989, Dallas Morning News: “Some predictions for the next decade are not difficult to make…Americans may see the ’80s migration to the Sun Belt reverse as a global warming trend rekindles interest in cooler climates.”

—****

88. Michael Oppenheimer, 1990, The Environmental Defense Fund: “By 1995, the greenhouse effect would be desolating the heartlands of North America and Eurasia with horrific drought, causing crop failures and food riots…”(By 1996) The Platte River of Nebraska would be dry, while a continent-wide black blizzard of prairie topsoil will stop traffic on interstates, strip paint from houses and shut down computers…The Mexican police will round up illegal American migrants surging into Mexico seeking work as field hands.”

****

89. April 18, 1990, Denver Post: “Giant sand dunes may turn Plains to desert–huge sand dunes extending east from Colorado’s Front Range may be on the verge of breaking through the thin topsoil, transforming America’s rolling High Plains into a desert, new research suggests. The giant sand dunes discovered by NASA satellite photos are expected to re-emerge over the next 20 t0 50 years, depending on how fast average temperatures rise from the suspected ‘greenhouse effect’ scientists believe.”

****

90. Edward Goldsmith, 1991, (5000 Days to Save the Planet): “By 2000, British and American oil will have diminished to a trickle….Ozone depletion and global warming threaten food shortages, but the wealthy North will enjoy a temporary reprieve by buying up the produce of the South. Unrest among the hungry and the ensuing political instability, will be contained by the North’s greater military might. A bleak future indeed, but an inevitable one unless we change the way we live…At present rates of exploitation there may be no rainforest left in 10 years. If measures are not taken immediately, the greenhouse effect may be unstoppable in 12 to 15 years.”

****

91. April 22, 1990 ABC, The Miracle Planet: “I think we’re in trouble. When you realize how little time we have left–we are now given not 10 years to save the rainforests, but in many cases five years. Madagascar will largely be gone in five years unless something happens. And nothing is happening.”

****

92. February 1993, Thomas E. Lovejoy, Smithsonian Institution: “Most of the great environmental struggles will be either won or lost in the 1990s and by the next century it will be too late.”

****

93. November 7, 1997, (BBC commentator): “It appears that we have a very good case for suggesting that the El Niños are going to become more frequent, and they’re going to become more intense and in a few years, or a decade or so, we’ll go into a permanent El Nino. So instead of having cool water periods for a year or two, we’ll have El Niño upon El Niño, and that will become the norm. And you’ll have an El Niño, that instead of lasting 18 months, lasts 18 years.”

****

94. July 26, 1999 The Birmingham Post: “Scientists are warning that some of the Himalayan glaciers could vanish within ten years because of global warming. A build-up of greenhouse gases is blamed for the meltdown, which could lead to drought and flooding in the region affecting millions of people.”

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95. October 15, 1990 Carl Sagan: “The planet could face an ‘ecological and agricultural catastrophe’ by the next decade if global warming trends continue.”

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96. Sept 11, 1999, The Guardian: “A report last week claimed that within a decade, the disease (malaria) will be common again on the Spanish coast. The effects of global warming are coming home to roost in the developed world.”

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97. March 29, 2001, CNN: “In ten year’s time, most of the low-lying atolls surrounding Tuvalu’s nine islands in the South Pacific Ocean will be submerged under water as global warming rises sea levels.”

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98. 1969, Lubos Moti, Czech physicist: “It is now pretty clearly agreed that CO2 content [in the atmosphere] will rise 25% by 2000. This could increase the average temperature near the earth’s surface by 7 degrees Fahrenheit. This in turn could raise the level of the sea by 10 feet. Goodbye New York. Goodbye Washington, for that matter.”

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99. 2005, Andrew Simms, policy director of the New Economics Foundation: “Scholars are predicting that 50 million people worldwide will be displaced by 2010 because of rising sea levels, desertification, dried up aquifers, weather-induced flooding and other serious environmental changes.”

****

100. Oct 20, 2009, Gordon Brown UK Prime Minister (referring to the Copenhagen climate conference): “World leaders have 50 days to save the Earth from irreversible global warming.”

****

101. June 2008, Ted Alvarez, Backpacker Magazine Blogs: “you could potentially sail, kayak, or even swim to the North Pole by the end of the summer. Climate scientists say that the Arctic ice…is currently on track to melt sometime in 2008.”
[Shortly after this prediction was made, a Russian icebreaker was trapped in the ice of the Northwest Passage for a week.]

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102. May 31, 2006 Al Gore, CBS Early Show: “…the debate among the scientists is over. There is no more debate. We face a planetary emergency. There is no more scientific debate among serious people who’ve looked at the science…Well, I guess in some quarters, there’s still a debate over whether the moon landing was staged in a movie lot in Arizona, or whether the Earth is flat instead of round.”

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103. January 2000 Dr. Michael Oppenheimer of the Environmental Defense Fund commenting (in a NY Times interview) on the mild winters in New York City: “But it does not take a scientist to size up the effects of snowless winters on the children too young to remember the record-setting blizzards of 1996. For them, the pleasures of sledding and snowball fights are as out-of-date as hoop-rolling, and the delight of a snow day off from school is unknown.”

****

104. 2008 Dr. James Hansen of the Goddard Space Institute (NASA) on a visit to Britain: “The recent warm winters that Britain has experienced are a sign that the climate is changing.”
[Two exceptionally cold winters followed. The 2009-10 winter may be the coldest experienced in the UK since 1683.]

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105. June 11, 1986, Dr. James Hansen of the Goddard Space Institute (NASA) in testimony to Congress (according to the Milwaukee Journal): “Hansen predicted global temperatures should be nearly 2 degrees higher in 20 years, ‘which is about the warmest the earth has been in the last 100,000 years.’”

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106. June 8, 1972, Christian Science Monitor: “Arctic specialist Bernt Balchen says a general warming trend over the North Pole is melting the polar ice cap and may produce an ice-free Arctic Ocean by the year 2000.”

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107. May 15, 1989, Associated Press: “Using computer models, researchers concluded that global warming would raise average annual temperatures nationwide [USA] two degrees by 2010.”
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lather
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by lather »

You can look at before/after photos of Greenland and see that it isn't alarmism.
Or at some of the predictions in your list have come to pass.

You may as well try to argue that Earth is flat.
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Re: Rifts Greenland

Unread post by glitterboy2098 »

actually even our current most pessimistic models do not have greenland having suffered much glacial loss by the 2090's. certainly not total loss. (and Greenland has seen a lot of attention over the issues due to concerns over dangerous materials which had been left there over the course of the cold war.)

and those do not account for the fact that most of Golden Age humanity evidently switches to a low carbon footprint technology base. (hyper efficiency electric drives, ultra dense electrical storage, fuelcells, compact highly efficient nuclear power, etc.) so many of the effects would have been moderated durign the golden age.

and the cataclysm, with its massive vulcanism, is a recipe for massive global cooling, something that is showcased in CE with the sudden temp drops, and in rifts with the multi-decade 'winter'. while likely a short lived phenomenon, the fact is that combined with the way most of the world has been knocked back to a per-industrial condition (and remains that way for centuries, with those areas where it was not largely retaining the low-carbon footprint technologies), suggests a world that no longer will be having to worry about global warming. at least for several more centuries beyond the PA100's.

if anything, the global volcanic winter and the resulting centuries of lower temps ought to have what melting occurred before the cataclysm largely replaced with new ice.
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