Roadrunner power armor

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eliakon
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by eliakon »

Hawk258 wrote:
eliakon wrote:
Hawk258 wrote:
eliakon wrote:
Hawk258 wrote:Speed = run
Flying = fly speed

Each "movement" is separate and indicated as specified

SPD is not general

And "sonic speed" is your run speed period.

A winged mutant with sonic flight flies 700 mph
But runs 3d6

RUE pg. 284 "Speed (Spd). Indicates the rate of speed at which a character can run and/or fly.
Note that the singular attribute covers two things?
One number?
You can't change it based on only half the result.
So again...
Sonic Speed + Wingless Flight = Black Swan


When there is a difference they are indicated.

There are characters that can fly as fast as they run and is specified

If a mode of movement is not part of the equation it is not listed and stated what type of travel is used

If they have multiple modes of trave with different speeds they are each noted.

If a natural climb ability is listed it is specifically noted

And if a boost is in play like leylines they are noted.

Yes.
But those are your movement rates.
They are not your Spd Attribute.
You keep confusing the two.
They are not the same thing.
You can not simply replace the one with the other.
This is why there is one attribute, and many derived characteristics.



For a bipedal being: spd = run
It doesn't give you fly
It is NOT your swim speed
It is not your climb speed
It is not your slither speed
It is not your attack speed

Unless stated otherwise your SPD is your run speed.

If you have other abilities each are noted accordingly

Unfortunatly the Rules Book disagrees with you on this.
When there is a conflict between a player and the published rules I tend to take the rule book.
And page 284 of RUE is pretty explicit.
So, once again.
Sonic Speed + Wingless Flight = Black Swan (shall we make a Rifts meta with this name?)
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by Hawk258 »

eliakon wrote:
The Beast wrote:
eliakon wrote:
The Beast wrote:
eliakon wrote:Take Sonic Speed and Wingless Flight. Now, tell me what is your Spd Stat?

Spd = Mach 1 running, minimum of 200 mph flying (this one depends on the speedster's level).

Problem
Spd is an Attribute.
That means it is a specific, singular number.
Attributes are not variables.
Try again.
I need your Attribute, not the derived variables.


Incorrect. as per page 16 of HU2 the Spd attribute is your running speed. With that superpower you are able to run at Mach 1. Ego your Spd attribute is Mach 1.

eliakon wrote:Make a Mega Hero, take Sonic Speed and Slow and Ponderous. Tell me your Spd Stat and how fast you run. I'll wait.


The Beast wrote:This one's a bit tricky as several Palladium books list different speeds for Mach 1. However, using what it says for the power your Spd in this example is 350 mph.


Incorrect.
The book tells us flat out that your Spd Attribute is 8.
But that you can run at half the speed of sound.
So... how can I be doing both?


Ah, you got me. I didn't fully reread the weakness before answering. Doesn't change the fact that page 16 of HU2 states your Spd attribute is your running speed.

EDIT: fixed quotations.

*sigh*
It does.
Spd is used to find your running speed, in normal circumstances.
These are not normal circumstances.
Because your Spd Attribute can not be both an 8 AND it can not also be that your Spd Attribute is "one half the speed of sound"
So tell me.
Which seems more likely?
That the Spd Attribute is determined the way the book tells us which is "roll these dice, and only modify as you are told"
or
That the Spd Attribute is a quantum number that can have three or four different, mutally exculsive values, all at the same time, because it is derived from your movement speed.


The difference is the result of a specific mechanism. Same as if a being sensitive to leyline and is specified

The issue you have is specific to megaheroes with slow and ponderous

As this issue is "during creation" and as stated either 1/2 or 8 of speed. And gives specific exclusions for specific abilities and allowing the being to "toggle" the ability

It does not effect your swim speed or fighting speed or actions per round.
When I post an idea, game balance is my only concern. For rules see rule zero and for canon look at RUE PAGE 372. Only 2 questions need consideration is it fun? Is it balanced?

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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by The Beast »

eliakon wrote:
The Beast wrote:
eliakon wrote:
The Beast wrote:
eliakon wrote:Take Sonic Speed and Wingless Flight. Now, tell me what is your Spd Stat?

Spd = Mach 1 running, minimum of 200 mph flying (this one depends on the speedster's level).

Problem
Spd is an Attribute.
That means it is a specific, singular number.
Attributes are not variables.
Try again.
I need your Attribute, not the derived variables.


Incorrect. as per page 16 of HU2 the Spd attribute is your running speed. With that superpower you are able to run at Mach 1. Ego your Spd attribute is Mach 1.

eliakon wrote:Make a Mega Hero, take Sonic Speed and Slow and Ponderous. Tell me your Spd Stat and how fast you run. I'll wait.


Neither. The Spd attribute is what the books tell us it is, and what all the main books say is that it's your running speed. Prove me wrong, I dare you.
The Beast wrote:This one's a bit tricky as several Palladium books list different speeds for Mach 1. However, using what it says for the power your Spd in this example is 350 mph.


Incorrect.
The book tells us flat out that your Spd Attribute is 8.
But that you can run at half the speed of sound.
So... how can I be doing both?


Ah, you got me. I didn't fully reread the weakness before answering. Doesn't change the fact that page 16 of HU2 states your Spd attribute is your running speed.

EDIT: fixed quotations.

*sigh*
It does.
Spd is used to find your running speed, in normal circumstances.
These are not normal circumstances.
Because your Spd Attribute can not be both an 8 AND it can not also be that your Spd Attribute is "one half the speed of sound"
So tell me.
Which seems more likely?
That the Spd Attribute is determined the way the book tells us which is "roll these dice, and only modify as you are told"
or
That the Spd Attribute is a quantum number that can have three or four different, mutally exculsive values, all at the same time, because it is derived from your movement speed.
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by The Beast »

eliakon wrote:
The Beast wrote:
eliakon wrote:
The Beast wrote:
eliakon wrote:Take Sonic Speed and Wingless Flight. Now, tell me what is your Spd Stat?

Spd = Mach 1 running, minimum of 200 mph flying (this one depends on the speedster's level).

Problem
Spd is an Attribute.
That means it is a specific, singular number.
Attributes are not variables.
Try again.
I need your Attribute, not the derived variables.


Incorrect. as per page 16 of HU2 the Spd attribute is your running speed. With that superpower you are able to run at Mach 1. Ego your Spd attribute is Mach 1.

eliakon wrote:Make a Mega Hero, take Sonic Speed and Slow and Ponderous. Tell me your Spd Stat and how fast you run. I'll wait.



The Beast wrote:This one's a bit tricky as several Palladium books list different speeds for Mach 1. However, using what it says for the power your Spd in this example is 350 mph.


Incorrect.
The book tells us flat out that your Spd Attribute is 8.
But that you can run at half the speed of sound.
So... how can I be doing both?


Ah, you got me. I didn't fully reread the weakness before answering. Doesn't change the fact that page 16 of HU2 states your Spd attribute is your running speed.

EDIT: fixed quotations.

*sigh*
It does.
Spd is used to find your running speed, in normal circumstances.
These are not normal circumstances.
Because your Spd Attribute can not be both an 8 AND it can not also be that your Spd Attribute is "one half the speed of sound"
So tell me.
Which seems more likely?
That the Spd Attribute is determined the way the book tells us which is "roll these dice, and only modify as you are told"
or
That the Spd Attribute is a quantum number that can have three or four different, mutally exculsive values, all at the same time, because it is derived from your movement speed.


Neither. The Spd attribute is what the books tell us it is, and what all the main books say is that it's your running speed. Prove me wrong, I dare you.
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by Hawk258 »

So his speed would be 350 mph or 513 fps

Get rid of the 8 and kill the confusion
When I post an idea, game balance is my only concern. For rules see rule zero and for canon look at RUE PAGE 372. Only 2 questions need consideration is it fun? Is it balanced?

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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by dreicunan »

Hawk258 wrote:So his speed would be 350 mph or 513 fps

Get rid of the 8 and kill the confusion

Your argument is now to get rid of the rules that are inconvenient to your position?

:lol:

His speed would still be 8 or less.

Now stop dodging the issue and either claim that PS is increased by Sonic Speed if you have the swim skill, or admit that your position is wrong and that attributes are only increased by powers when a power says that it increases the attribute.
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by Hawk258 »

Simplified:
Running speed is half
If a flight/run ability is taken it is half.

The 8 or lower confuses the issue.
When I post an idea, game balance is my only concern. For rules see rule zero and for canon look at RUE PAGE 372. Only 2 questions need consideration is it fun? Is it balanced?

Gamblers fallacy:(Example): Coin flips are the most common example of the gambler's fallacy. For instance, in a game of heads or tails, many people will bet on tails if there have been several heads in a row.
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by 13eowulf »

Hawk258 wrote:The 8 or lower confuses the issue.

It doesnt confuse the issue. It is rather simple and straightforward.

It frustrates your attempts to try and make Sonic Speed un-negateable, and perform other shenanigans with it.

But it doesn't confuse the issue.
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by Hawk258 »

I never claimed either.

Unless noted speed is PS times 3.

In the case of sonic speed it specifically addresses swim speed and 0 change to PS
When I post an idea, game balance is my only concern. For rules see rule zero and for canon look at RUE PAGE 372. Only 2 questions need consideration is it fun? Is it balanced?

Gamblers fallacy:(Example): Coin flips are the most common example of the gambler's fallacy. For instance, in a game of heads or tails, many people will bet on tails if there have been several heads in a row.
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by Hawk258 »

13eowulf wrote:
Hawk258 wrote:The 8 or lower confuses the issue.

It doesnt confuse the issue. It is rather simple and straightforward.

It frustrates your attempts to try and make Sonic Speed un-negateable, and perform other shenanigans with it.

But it doesn't confuse the issue.


If sonic speed is not a toggle is true
And Run speed is run speed is true
Then sonic speed is your run speed.

The "8 or less" mechanic in question addresses individuals not enhanced with speed or flight abilities.

And why I stated (get rid of the 8 )

Additionally sonic speed can be negated. Issues that effect running speed effect sonic speed

Example: slow motion control. Leg damage, rough terrain. Drugs poison, ect
When I post an idea, game balance is my only concern. For rules see rule zero and for canon look at RUE PAGE 372. Only 2 questions need consideration is it fun? Is it balanced?

Gamblers fallacy:(Example): Coin flips are the most common example of the gambler's fallacy. For instance, in a game of heads or tails, many people will bet on tails if there have been several heads in a row.
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by eliakon »

The Beast wrote:
eliakon wrote:*sigh*
It does.
Spd is used to find your running speed, in normal circumstances.
These are not normal circumstances.
Because your Spd Attribute can not be both an 8 AND it can not also be that your Spd Attribute is "one half the speed of sound"
So tell me.
Which seems more likely?
That the Spd Attribute is determined the way the book tells us which is "roll these dice, and only modify as you are told"
or
That the Spd Attribute is a quantum number that can have three or four different, mutally exculsive values, all at the same time, because it is derived from your movement speed.


Neither. The Spd attribute is what the books tell us it is, and what all the main books say is that it's your running speed. Prove me wrong, I dare you.

The Speed Attribute is your unmodifed running speed.
Note the word Unmodified.
Once you start modifying it, then it is no longer your Attribute.
As an example. If you put on a suit of power armor that says you can run at 80 MPH. Then your Spd Attribute did not change. Even though your running speed is now 80 MPH.
Because your statistic did not change.
If your Mega Hero has Sonic Speed, their Attribute never changes.
And for better fun, and the one that started this. If we use modified speed, to allow you to change the base... then what do you do if the modifier then modifies the new base?
Simply put the Attribute is what it say it is. An Attribute, and it does not change.
You can get ablilites that will allow you to run at a speed other than the speed your Attribute says you can... but those do not change the actual Attribute itself.

The entire claim that people can take the running speed and divide it by 20 to get their stat is based on the notion that the rules allow this.
So, I ask, yet again, where is the rule that says you can divide your running speed by 20 to get your Attribute?
I see where I can multiply my Attribute to get my running speed, but not the other way around.
And you need a rule that lets you do it, not just "because I think I can"
This is especially true if someone wants to use this to get around the Negate Super Abilites power by claiming that their Super Power is really an Attribute.

It really is this simple people
Really
Sonic Speed is simply modifying something. It is, wait for it, granting you a super power that allows you to do something that a normal person with your stats can not do.
In this case it lets you run at the speed of sound, regardless of what your actual Speed is.
You may only have a Spd of 12, and take a long time to get up the climb wall... but you can get take out two towns over for lunch.

There is absolutely zero support for the claim that you are allowed to divide your running speed by 20 to get an attribute.
Zero
There is nothing, in any book, anywhere that suggests that you can calculate an attribute this way
There is, however, evidence to the exact contrary, which we have provided in this very thread.
That is because your Spd Attribute is just your running speed, if all other things are equal. But when things are not equal... its not.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by Hawk258 »

So your argument is that your PS is your ps and can't be augmented?
When I post an idea, game balance is my only concern. For rules see rule zero and for canon look at RUE PAGE 372. Only 2 questions need consideration is it fun? Is it balanced?

Gamblers fallacy:(Example): Coin flips are the most common example of the gambler's fallacy. For instance, in a game of heads or tails, many people will bet on tails if there have been several heads in a row.
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by Hawk258 »

You have created an issue by a bad interpretation of a different rule.
When I post an idea, game balance is my only concern. For rules see rule zero and for canon look at RUE PAGE 372. Only 2 questions need consideration is it fun? Is it balanced?

Gamblers fallacy:(Example): Coin flips are the most common example of the gambler's fallacy. For instance, in a game of heads or tails, many people will bet on tails if there have been several heads in a row.
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by Hawk258 »

Additionally your speed is what it says you run. However to find how far you travel a round/minute is x5 for yards per 15 seconds and x20 for yards per 1 minute. Not divided. Your speed stat is FEET per second

Meaning

If you have a speed of 8 you travel 40 yards in 15 seconds or 5mph, which is roughly what the average healthy person can walk.

At 700 mph that is a speed attribute of 1026, and can travel 5130 yards in 15 seconds.

RUE page 281
(Edited out clutter, fixed units of measure, and typing errors)
Last edited by Hawk258 on Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:08 am, edited 16 times in total.
When I post an idea, game balance is my only concern. For rules see rule zero and for canon look at RUE PAGE 372. Only 2 questions need consideration is it fun? Is it balanced?

Gamblers fallacy:(Example): Coin flips are the most common example of the gambler's fallacy. For instance, in a game of heads or tails, many people will bet on tails if there have been several heads in a row.
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by The Beast »

eliakon wrote:The Speed Attribute is your unmodifed running speed.


Book and page number that says exactly that, please.
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by The Beast »

eliakon wrote:The entire claim that people can take the running speed and divide it by 20 to get their stat is based on the notion that the rules allow this.
So, I ask, yet again, where is the rule that says you can divide your running speed by 20 to get your Attribute?


I don't know where that's coming from. That's never been my argument. My argument is that the speed attribute is what the book says it is. And all the books pretty much say it's how fast one can run.
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by eliakon »

Hawk258 wrote:Additionally your speed is what it says you run. However to find how far you travel a round/minute is x5 for yards per 15 seconds and x20 for yards per 1 minute. Not divided. Your speed stat is FEET per second

Meaning

If you have a speed of 8 you travel 40 yards in 15 seconds or 5mph, which is roughly what the average healthy person can walk.

At 700 mph that is a speed attribute of 1026, and can travel 5130 yards in 15 seconds.

RUE page 281
(Edited out clutter, fixed units of measure, and typing errors)

You know what?
I'll bite.
So, lets say for the sake of discussion here that your right okay?
I want to fill in my character sheet now.
What is the # I put in the Spd Attribute. I need the exact number.
Said number must comply with all the material in the RUE on attributes, and running.

If its so obvious then it should be easy to provide me with the correct number yes?
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by Hawk258 »

If we go off Joe's powers list

Mega-Joe Average
Mega Power: Impervious to Disease
Achilles Heal: Slow and Ponderous

Super Powers
Sonic Speed x2
Adhesion
Unforgetability

Then it is spd:1026 (aka mach 1)/climb speed: 513

As mentioned the 8 only applies "if you have no other mode of movement ability" (and why I say throw the 8 out and use 1/2 in the rule, would make it clearer)

I misinterpreted the rule differently as I hastily read it. I am sorry for adding to the confusion. In cases like this for me actually rolling up a character and considering the RAW is different than "talking" about it.

PS Beast, thank you for your input, if not for your comment on "neither" I would have possibly made a similar mistake
When I post an idea, game balance is my only concern. For rules see rule zero and for canon look at RUE PAGE 372. Only 2 questions need consideration is it fun? Is it balanced?

Gamblers fallacy:(Example): Coin flips are the most common example of the gambler's fallacy. For instance, in a game of heads or tails, many people will bet on tails if there have been several heads in a row.
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by eliakon »

Hawk258 wrote:If we go off Joe's powers list

Mega-Joe Average
Mega Power: Impervious to Disease
Achilles Heal: Slow and Ponderous

Super Powers
Sonic Speed x2
Adhesion
Unforgetability

Then it is spd:1026 (aka mach 1)/climb speed: 513

As mentioned the 8 only applies "if you have no other mode of movement ability" (and why I say throw the 8 out and use 1/2 in the rule, would make it clearer)

I misinterpreted the rule differently as I hastily read it. I am sorry for adding to the confusion. In cases like this for me actually rolling up a character and considering the RAW is different than "talking" about it.

PS Beast, thank you for your input, if not for your comment on "neither" I would have possibly made a similar mistake

Hmmm
I see a problem here
You gave me the wrong number
I ask for the exact number that goes in the Attribute. The one that gives the exact value that sattisifies all the RUE rules
You didnt do that.
Spd Stat 1026 does not do that. It is the wrong number as it is not the Speed of Sound.
Can you please try again.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by Hawk258 »

eliakon wrote:
Hawk258 wrote:If we go off Joe's powers list

Mega-Joe Average
Mega Power: Impervious to Disease
Achilles Heal: Slow and Ponderous

Super Powers
Sonic Speed x2
Adhesion
Unforgetability

Then it is spd:1026 (aka mach 1)/climb speed: 513

As mentioned the 8 only applies "if you have no other mode of movement ability" (and why I say throw the 8 out and use 1/2 in the rule, would make it clearer)

I misinterpreted the rule differently as I hastily read it. I am sorry for adding to the confusion. In cases like this for me actually rolling up a character and considering the RAW is different than "talking" about it.

PS Beast, thank you for your input, if not for your comment on "neither" I would have possibly made a similar mistake

Hmmm
I see a problem here
You gave me the wrong number
I ask for the exact number that goes in the Attribute. The one that gives the exact value that sattisifies all the RUE rules
You didnt do that.
Spd Stat 1026 does not do that. It is the wrong number as it is not the Speed of Sound.
Can you please try again.


2 sonic speeds / half.
700 mph x 2 = 1400 mph
1400/2= 700 mph.

700 mph = 1026 FPS

Your speed is expressed in FPS

Spd 1026

Google fps to mph

Use the 700 mph

(Which for rifts is mach 1 as per the rules)

Read page 281 compare the chart mph/stat to fps
When I post an idea, game balance is my only concern. For rules see rule zero and for canon look at RUE PAGE 372. Only 2 questions need consideration is it fun? Is it balanced?

Gamblers fallacy:(Example): Coin flips are the most common example of the gambler's fallacy. For instance, in a game of heads or tails, many people will bet on tails if there have been several heads in a row.
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by eliakon »

Hawk258 wrote:
eliakon wrote:
Hawk258 wrote:If we go off Joe's powers list

Mega-Joe Average
Mega Power: Impervious to Disease
Achilles Heal: Slow and Ponderous

Super Powers
Sonic Speed x2
Adhesion
Unforgetability

Then it is spd:1026 (aka mach 1)/climb speed: 513

As mentioned the 8 only applies "if you have no other mode of movement ability" (and why I say throw the 8 out and use 1/2 in the rule, would make it clearer)

I misinterpreted the rule differently as I hastily read it. I am sorry for adding to the confusion. In cases like this for me actually rolling up a character and considering the RAW is different than "talking" about it.

PS Beast, thank you for your input, if not for your comment on "neither" I would have possibly made a similar mistake

Hmmm
I see a problem here
You gave me the wrong number
I ask for the exact number that goes in the Attribute. The one that gives the exact value that sattisifies all the RUE rules
You didnt do that.
Spd Stat 1026 does not do that. It is the wrong number as it is not the Speed of Sound.
Can you please try again.


2 sonic speeds / half.
700 mph x 2 = 1400 mph
1400/2= 700 mph.

700 mph = 1026 FPS

Your speed is expressed in FPS

Spd 1026

Google fps to mph

Use the 700 mph

(Which for rifts is mach 1 as per the rules)

Read page 281 compare the chart mph/stat to fps

Your missing the part on page 281 though. 1026 does not fit in the math there... so I need a different number.
Remember. You are the ones that are claiming that your procedure provides the correct answer with out violating any rules. So it should be easy to do.
I can already provide an answer that satisfies all the rules using my interpretation (I put an 8 )
Last edited by eliakon on Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by Hawk258 »

eliakon wrote:
Hawk258 wrote:
eliakon wrote:
Hawk258 wrote:If we go off Joe's powers list

Mega-Joe Average
Mega Power: Impervious to Disease
Achilles Heal: Slow and Ponderous

Super Powers
Sonic Speed x2
Adhesion
Unforgetability

Then it is spd:1026 (aka mach 1)/climb speed: 513

As mentioned the 8 only applies "if you have no other mode of movement ability" (and why I say throw the 8 out and use 1/2 in the rule, would make it clearer)

I misinterpreted the rule differently as I hastily read it. I am sorry for adding to the confusion. In cases like this for me actually rolling up a character and considering the RAW is different than "talking" about it.

PS Beast, thank you for your input, if not for your comment on "neither" I would have possibly made a similar mistake

Hmmm
I see a problem here
You gave me the wrong number
I ask for the exact number that goes in the Attribute. The one that gives the exact value that sattisifies all the RUE rules
You didnt do that.
Spd Stat 1026 does not do that. It is the wrong number as it is not the Speed of Sound.
Can you please try again.


2 sonic speeds / half.
700 mph x 2 = 1400 mph
1400/2= 700 mph.

700 mph = 1026 FPS

Your speed is expressed in FPS

Spd 1026

Google fps to mph

Use the 700 mph

(Which for rifts is mach 1 as per the rules)

Read page 281 compare the chart mph/stat to fps

Your missing the part on page 281 though. 1026 does not fit in the math there... so I need a different number.



Google MPH To FPS
Enter 700 mph =1026 fps

Spd stat is fps

Mega-joe spd: 1026

Google the other "speeds/mph" and you will see SPD = FPS

Which is consistent with the graph/rules
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by eliakon »

Hawk258 wrote:
eliakon wrote:
Hawk258 wrote:
eliakon wrote:
Hawk258 wrote:If we go off Joe's powers list

Mega-Joe Average
Mega Power: Impervious to Disease
Achilles Heal: Slow and Ponderous

Super Powers
Sonic Speed x2
Adhesion
Unforgetability

Then it is spd:1026 (aka mach 1)/climb speed: 513

As mentioned the 8 only applies "if you have no other mode of movement ability" (and why I say throw the 8 out and use 1/2 in the rule, would make it clearer)

I misinterpreted the rule differently as I hastily read it. I am sorry for adding to the confusion. In cases like this for me actually rolling up a character and considering the RAW is different than "talking" about it.

PS Beast, thank you for your input, if not for your comment on "neither" I would have possibly made a similar mistake

Hmmm
I see a problem here
You gave me the wrong number
I ask for the exact number that goes in the Attribute. The one that gives the exact value that sattisifies all the RUE rules
You didnt do that.
Spd Stat 1026 does not do that. It is the wrong number as it is not the Speed of Sound.
Can you please try again.


2 sonic speeds / half.
700 mph x 2 = 1400 mph
1400/2= 700 mph.

700 mph = 1026 FPS

Your speed is expressed in FPS

Spd 1026

Google fps to mph

Use the 700 mph

(Which for rifts is mach 1 as per the rules)

Read page 281 compare the chart mph/stat to fps

Your missing the part on page 281 though. 1026 does not fit in the math there... so I need a different number.



Google MPH To FPS
Enter 700 mph =1026 fps

Spd stat is fps

Mega-joe spd: 1026

Google the other "speeds/mph" and you will see SPD = FPS

I did.
But you see...
Page 284 says that Spdx5 is my speed in Meters per Round
and 1026x5 is NOT the speed of sound in Meters per 15 seconds.
So obviously 1026 is not the correct number.
So again... what is?
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

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Re: Roadrunner power armort

Unread post by Hawk258 »

1026 x 5 = 5130 meters.

5130/15 = 342 yards/meters

342 x 3= 1026 feet

1 yard/meter = 3 feet

Spd 1026

Reverse example

1026 x 15 = 15390 FPS

15390/3 = 5130 YARDS

1026 fps = 342 meters per second

342 × 15 = 5130 meter in 15 seconds
Last edited by Hawk258 on Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Roadrunner power armort

Unread post by eliakon »

Hawk258 wrote:1026 x 5 = 5130 meters.

5130/15 = 324 yards/meters

324 x 3= 1026 feet

1 yard/meter = 3 feet

Spd 1026

No. Not in feet.
In meters
A meter is not 3 feet.
Spd 1026 is not the value for Mach 1 in meters. So, you said this was so easy.
What is the correct Spd Attribute?
I mean it should be easy right? We just convert the running speed back into the attribute yes?
So what is the Attribute? All I am asking for is the exact, correct number that your method provides. Nothing more, nothing less.
If your method is correct it should be easy to provide that number regardless of my specifications yes? I mean, the rules dont change so any rules legal specifications should always give us the same number for the same character in the end right?
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by Hawk258 »

Yards/meters is 3 feet (rounded per game for simplicity)
When I post an idea, game balance is my only concern. For rules see rule zero and for canon look at RUE PAGE 372. Only 2 questions need consideration is it fun? Is it balanced?

Gamblers fallacy:(Example): Coin flips are the most common example of the gambler's fallacy. For instance, in a game of heads or tails, many people will bet on tails if there have been several heads in a row.
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by Hawk258 »

SPD= 1026

In 1 (one) 15 second span you run 5130 METERS/YARDS

In 1 MINUTE you run 20520 METERS/YARDS

SPD X 5 = yards
SPD x15 = feet

So

1026 x 5 = 5130 YARDS
1026 x 15 = 15390 FEET

5x3= 15 seconds
15/3=5
15/5 =3

60/20=3
3 × 20 = 60 seconds
Last edited by Hawk258 on Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When I post an idea, game balance is my only concern. For rules see rule zero and for canon look at RUE PAGE 372. Only 2 questions need consideration is it fun? Is it balanced?

Gamblers fallacy:(Example): Coin flips are the most common example of the gambler's fallacy. For instance, in a game of heads or tails, many people will bet on tails if there have been several heads in a row.
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by eliakon »

Hawk258 wrote:Yards/meters is 3 feet (rounded per game for simplicity)

No. Not rounded.
I need the exact number for my attribute.
You can't just say "I'm going to change the numbers to match the results I picked already"

So, again.
What is my attribute?
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by Hawk258 »

eliakon wrote:
Hawk258 wrote:Yards/meters is 3 feet (rounded per game for simplicity)

No. Not rounded.
I need the exact number for my attribute.
You can't just say "I'm going to change the numbers to match the results I picked already"

So, again.
What is my attribute?


Your speed attribute is 1026

It just says you "travel" x meters in 15 second
5130 METERS or 15390 FEET

Which is 1026x15 for feet per ROUND
Or
1026 x 5 for yards PER ROUND

3 feet = 1 meter/yard (rounded for simplicity)
When I post an idea, game balance is my only concern. For rules see rule zero and for canon look at RUE PAGE 372. Only 2 questions need consideration is it fun? Is it balanced?

Gamblers fallacy:(Example): Coin flips are the most common example of the gambler's fallacy. For instance, in a game of heads or tails, many people will bet on tails if there have been several heads in a row.
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by eliakon »

Hawk258 wrote:
eliakon wrote:
Hawk258 wrote:Yards/meters is 3 feet (rounded per game for simplicity)

No. Not rounded.
I need the exact number for my attribute.
You can't just say "I'm going to change the numbers to match the results I picked already"

So, again.
What is my attribute?


Your speed attribute is 1026

It just says you "travel" x meters in 15 second
5130 METERS or 15390 FEET

Which is 1026x15 for feet
Or
1026 x 5 for yards.

Wait? Are you saying that your running speed (the speed you travel) is NOT YOUR SPEED?
Because you just said that I do not use my Speed to find my Spd
but let me show you some math
343.2 meters per second (speed of sound (provisional))
so my Spd is 1030

So I now have Spd stat of
1030 AND 1026
And that, as they say, is a bit of a problem
So... how do you suppose we resolve this minor difficulty?
You know before we move on to the major difficulty I have next?
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by Hawk258 »

eliakon wrote:
Hawk258 wrote:
eliakon wrote:
Hawk258 wrote:Yards/meters is 3 feet (rounded per game for simplicity)

No. Not rounded.
I need the exact number for my attribute.
You can't just say "I'm going to change the numbers to match the results I picked already"

So, again.
What is my attribute?


Your speed attribute is 1026

It just says you "travel" x meters in 15 second
5130 METERS or 15390 FEET

Which is 1026x15 for feet
Or
1026 x 5 for yards.

Wait? Are you saying that your running speed (the speed you travel) is NOT YOUR SPEED?
Because you just said that I do not use my Speed to find my Spd
but let me show you some math
343.2 meters per second (speed of sound (provisional))
so my Spd is 1030

So I now have Spd stat of
1030 AND 1026
And that, as they say, is a bit of a problem
So... how do you suppose we resolve this minor difficulty?
You know before we move on to the major difficulty I have next?



NO:

1026 is your speed.

As PER game rule Speed of sound is 700 MPH.

Where did you get 1030?
Last edited by Hawk258 on Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When I post an idea, game balance is my only concern. For rules see rule zero and for canon look at RUE PAGE 372. Only 2 questions need consideration is it fun? Is it balanced?

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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by eliakon »

Hawk258 wrote:
eliakon wrote:
Hawk258 wrote:
eliakon wrote:
Hawk258 wrote:Yards/meters is 3 feet (rounded per game for simplicity)

No. Not rounded.
I need the exact number for my attribute.
You can't just say "I'm going to change the numbers to match the results I picked already"

So, again.
What is my attribute?


Your speed attribute is 1026

It just says you "travel" x meters in 15 second
5130 METERS or 15390 FEET

Which is 1026x15 for feet
Or
1026 x 5 for yards.

Wait? Are you saying that your running speed (the speed you travel) is NOT YOUR SPEED?
Because you just said that I do not use my Speed to find my Spd
but let me show you some math
343.2 meters per second (speed of sound (provisional))
so my Spd is 1030

So I now have Spd stat of
1030 AND 1026
And that, as they say, is a bit of a problem
So... how do you suppose we resolve this minor difficulty?
You know before we move on to the major difficulty I have next?



NO:

1026 is your speed.

Why no?
Your claiming that my math is wrong?
That I can not use my running speed to find my Spd Attribute?
But I thought that was the entire point of your claim That you could use your running speed to find your Spd Attribute.
If that's not the case, then what were you claiming?
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by Hawk258 »

You are using the wrong number.

Mach 1 as per GAME described 700 mph
Not 767 mph
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by eliakon »

Hawk258 wrote:You are using the wrong number.

Mach 1 as per GAME described 700 mph
Not 767 mph

Rifts Conversion Book Revised Page 50 "Mach One, or approximately 670 mph (1072 kph)).
That sounds like "The real value for Mach One" and not anything at all like "700 MPH"
But if you like I can re-run the math with those two numbers and see what we get?
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by Hawk258 »

If you want any of those 3 ask you GM.

But IN the case of THE HU2 description 700 MPH or 1026 speed attribute.

Deal with the conversion with the GM

But as HU2 is the NEWER rule and the rule YOU are using use 700 mph giving you a speed attribute of 1026.

If you CHOOSE
670 mph it is 983
767 mph it is 1125

The speed of sound is 767mph (real number)
Last edited by Hawk258 on Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by eliakon »

Hawk258 wrote:If you want any of those 3 ask you GM.

But IN the case of THE HU2 description 700 MPH or 1026 speed attribute.

Deal with the conversion with the GM

But as HU2 is the NEWER rule and the rule YOU are using use 700 mph

*sigh*
Rifts Conversion Book (revised) IS the newest book. It is newer then HU2, since it came out after HU2, and refers to it
It is also the Rifts book, and since this is the Rifts forum and a Rifts character I thought we were using it.
But hey, I'll bite. I'll use the HU2 numbers
"Run a the speed of sound, Mach One, or approximately 700 mph (1126 km/h)
Hmm. that approximately again. But hey, I'll use the book number
1126km/h
312.777778 m/3 * 3 is... 938.3 repeating
so we have 1026 and 938 as my stats.
Still awkward.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by Hawk258 »

Pick 1.

Either use hu2 or conversion Not both


Why are you making this difficult?
Last edited by Hawk258 on Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by eliakon »

Hawk258 wrote:Pick 1.

Either use hu2 or conversion Not both

I did. I used the numbers you said to use
The numbers from the HU2 book.
Which, I might note are the worst possible choice for you.
Since using those numbers I end up with six different Spd stats, and not just two. would you like them all?

You are still dancing around the solution to my quantum number problem.
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by Hawk258 »

eliakon wrote:
Hawk258 wrote:Pick 1.

Either use hu2 or conversion Not both

I did. I used the numbers you said to use
The numbers from the HU2 book.
Which, I might note are the worst possible choice for you.
Since using those numbers I end up with six different Spd stats, and not just two. would you like them all?

You are still dancing around the solution to my quantum number problem.


No.. your speed attribute is 1026 (based on the description) 700 mph.

Yes!
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Gamblers fallacy:(Example): Coin flips are the most common example of the gambler's fallacy. For instance, in a game of heads or tails, many people will bet on tails if there have been several heads in a row.
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by Hawk258 »

I will make this simple.

Your speed attribute is 1026.

The 5x is YARDS/METERS you travel in 15 seconds (NOT your speed attribute)

The 20x is YARDS/METER you travel in 1 minute (NOT YOUR SPEED ATTRIBUTE)

The 5/20 is for knowing how far you can run in the game during your turn
Last edited by Hawk258 on Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by eliakon »

Hawk258 wrote:
eliakon wrote:
Hawk258 wrote:Pick 1.

Either use hu2 or conversion Not both

I did. I used the numbers you said to use
The numbers from the HU2 book.
Which, I might note are the worst possible choice for you.
Since using those numbers I end up with six different Spd stats, and not just two. would you like them all?

You are still dancing around the solution to my quantum number problem.


No.. your speed attribute is 1026 (based on the description) 700 mph.

You are only using half the listed power.
That is not a thing you can do.
You do not get to pick which parts of the rules apply.
If you can use the listed running speed to find the characters Spd Attribute, then you can use the listed running speed to find the characters Spd Attribute.
The listed running speed is
Mach One ~700 MPH ~1126 km/h
Since your Spd attribute is explicitly stated to provide your movement in Meters per round and since I do not see any text that says that only imperial math is allowed... your stance that only miles per hour can be used strikes me as arbitrary.

More to the point you are not doing what you said you are doing. You are not finding the Attribute from the running speed.
You are preselecting an answer and finding a justification to support it. Because when I find an Attribute from the running speed, using the exact same materials, exact same sources, and using the exact same math... I get a different number.
And when I show this you tell me that my way of doing it is not valid... even though it is the exact same thing you are doing.
So tell me, why is your way valid, but mine isn't?
Why can you use miles but not kilometers?
Why do you get to pick and choose which parts of the rules get followed and which ones don't? Isn't that the definition of a house rule?
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by Hawk258 »

Give me your math formulas
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by Hawk258 »

As the speed attribute is based on FPS use feet per second
And as the description is MPH use MPH
Stop complicating

Use 1 unit of measure
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by The Beast »

Have you found the book and page that says your "Speed Attribute is your unmodifed running speed" yet?
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eliakon
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by eliakon »

Hawk258 wrote:Gove me your math formulas

I did already
But its pretty easy
divide km/h by 3600 to get km/s
multiply by 1000 to get m/s
multiply by 3 to get attribute (this is the same as multiplying by 15 to get meters per round and then dividing by five to get the attribute)

Sonic Speed numbers
1126 km/h (converts to 938.3r which is...problematical)
1.6 km every five seconds (which converts to 960)
18.6 km per minute (which is 930)

which means that we get three different attributes if we convert the canon, listed running speed into their speed atribute.
Which is, as I said before
A Problem <tm>
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Hawk258
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by Hawk258 »

eliakon wrote:
Hawk258 wrote:Gove me your math formulas

I did already
But its pretty easy
divide km/h by 3600 to get km/s
multiply by 1000 to get m/s
multiply by 3 to get attribute (this is the same as multiplying by 15 to get meters per round and then dividing by five to get the attribute)

Sonic Speed numbers
1126 km/h (converts to 938.3r which is...problematical)
1.6 km every five seconds (which converts to 960)
18.6 km per minute (which is 930)

which means that we get three different attributes if we convert the canon, listed running speed into their speed atribute.
Which is, as I said before
A Problem <tm>


Does your gm use that standard?
When I post an idea, game balance is my only concern. For rules see rule zero and for canon look at RUE PAGE 372. Only 2 questions need consideration is it fun? Is it balanced?

Gamblers fallacy:(Example): Coin flips are the most common example of the gambler's fallacy. For instance, in a game of heads or tails, many people will bet on tails if there have been several heads in a row.
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eliakon
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by eliakon »

Hawk258 wrote:As the speed attribute is based on FPS use feet per second
And as the description is MPH use MPH
Stop complicating

Use 1 unit of measure

I don't have to use one unit of measure.
Unless you can find a citation that says that the other units in the book are not valid and that the rules that use them can be discarded they are still part of the rules.
If you want to claim that what you are doing is part of the rules, then you need to be following the rules. All of them.
Even the ones you don't like.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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eliakon
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by eliakon »

Hawk258 wrote:
eliakon wrote:
Hawk258 wrote:Gove me your math formulas

I did already
But its pretty easy
divide km/h by 3600 to get km/s
multiply by 1000 to get m/s
multiply by 3 to get attribute (this is the same as multiplying by 15 to get meters per round and then dividing by five to get the attribute)

Sonic Speed numbers
1126 km/h (converts to 938.3r which is...problematical)
1.6 km every five seconds (which converts to 960)
18.6 km per minute (which is 930)

which means that we get three different attributes if we convert the canon, listed running speed into their speed atribute.
Which is, as I said before
A Problem <tm>


Does your gm use that standard?

It doesn't matter what my GM uses.
You are the one claiming that this is the rule here.
You are the one that has to back it up not me.
I am the one that is just using the published material to double check your math.

You made a claim. Specifically you claimed that you can calculate your Speed Attribute from your running speed.
I said that isn't the rule
You said that it was
I said that doesnt work.
Now you are claiming that because I am showing that your claim doesnt work... that it is my fault?
You made the claim that your method was correct, and that it works. If it is correct, and it follows the rules then it should work. So make it work.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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eliakon
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Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by eliakon »

The Beast wrote:Have you found the book and page that says your "Speed Attribute is your unmodifed running speed" yet?

Have you been following the thread :D
That's the entire discussion.
But if you can find a book and page that say you can convert your running speed from MPH into an Attribute, I'll be happy to play "demand the imaginary citation" with you.

Right now though, I am busy doing quantum math with Hawk258
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Hawk258
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Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:46 pm
Comment: Chuckie Sullivan "Applesauce B!%@#"

Re: Roadrunner power armor

Unread post by Hawk258 »

Fine... if you want Metric.... we can go there.

700 mph to 1126 kph = 1026 FPS as per the standard of speed attribute unit of measure

If you chose to convert that's a modified rule you have to take up with the gm
Last edited by Hawk258 on Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When I post an idea, game balance is my only concern. For rules see rule zero and for canon look at RUE PAGE 372. Only 2 questions need consideration is it fun? Is it balanced?

Gamblers fallacy:(Example): Coin flips are the most common example of the gambler's fallacy. For instance, in a game of heads or tails, many people will bet on tails if there have been several heads in a row.
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