Board index » MDC Worlds » Rifts®

 


Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:27 am
  

D-Bee

Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 1:34 pm
Posts: 18
"Or, how I stopped worrying about price tags and learned to love the Rifts."

SO, uhm. I feel real stupid saying this, but I just came to the conclusion that the massive price tags on the average weapon and suit of power armor (never mind a robot) were not realistically designed to be accomplish able goals for the average player character or group of player characters. I mean, what D&D player ever spent 10 plus million gold on ANYTHING?

The mad price tags on war machines, cyborg parts and the like forces the characters into a level of quid pro quo. You get that new bionic arm, and the king gets that brodkill problem solved. Yeah, we'll give you a NG combat robot, but weve got a small army of zombies roaming the countryside. Like that SAMSON Power Armor? Well, the mayor's daughter was kidnapped by vampires. Nice UAR-1 you got there. Whats that? Multiplel radar contacts squawking Coalition ID?

You get the idea. Wanna play? Gotta pay. but not monies. No character can amass or steal that much money.

Or worse. Ever seen that movie "Lord of War?" Maybe the characters get paid in super illegal drugs, worth several million credits. Or Necromantic supplies.

Option three is the war campaign, where the entire party gets some form of war machine (robots and armor for the pilots, APC/tank for the non-men of arms characters) and they are hired guns instead of freelance adventurers. The characters are issued their gear, military style, and must return them after missions.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:04 pm
  

Explorer

Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:48 am
Posts: 188
slade2501 wrote:
"Or, how I stopped worrying about price tags and learned to love the Rifts."

SO, uhm. I feel real stupid saying this, but I just came to the conclusion that the massive price tags on the average weapon and suit of power armor (never mind a robot) were not realistically designed to be accomplish able goals for the average player character or group of player characters. I mean, what D&D player ever spent 10 plus million gold on ANYTHING?

The mad price tags on war machines, cyborg parts and the like forces the characters into a level of quid pro quo. You get that new bionic arm, and the king gets that brodkill problem solved. Yeah, we'll give you a NG combat robot, but weve got a small army of zombies roaming the countryside. Like that SAMSON Power Armor? Well, the mayor's daughter was kidnapped by vampires. Nice UAR-1 you got there. Whats that? Multiplel radar contacts squawking Coalition ID?

You get the idea. Wanna play? Gotta pay. but not monies. No character can amass or steal that much money.

Or worse. Ever seen that movie "Lord of War?" Maybe the characters get paid in super illegal drugs, worth several million credits. Or Necromantic supplies.

Option three is the war campaign, where the entire party gets some form of war machine (robots and armor for the pilots, APC/tank for the non-men of arms characters) and they are hired guns instead of freelance adventurers. The characters are issued their gear, military style, and must return them after missions.

We have a very current thread on this already.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:12 pm
  

User avatar
Hero

Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:24 pm
Posts: 1000
Location: Praxus
Comment: Arrrrgggghhhh!
The other consideration is that the values found in books are merely the Base Price and you go up or down from there with regards to what the current region can afford.

_________________
http://incompetech.com/graphpaper/
Create and print dozens of different graph papers.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:49 pm
  

User avatar
Priest

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 2:01 am
Posts: 44893
Location: In the ocean, punching oncoming waves
Comment: "Your Eloquence with a sledge hammer is a beautiful thing..." -Zer0 Kay
slade2501 wrote:
"Or, how I stopped worrying about price tags and learned to love the Rifts."

SO, uhm. I feel real stupid saying this, but I just came to the conclusion that the massive price tags on the average weapon and suit of power armor (never mind a robot) were not realistically designed to be accomplish able goals for the average player character or group of player characters. I mean, what D&D player ever spent 10 plus million gold on ANYTHING?

The mad price tags on war machines, cyborg parts and the like forces the characters into a level of quid pro quo. You get that new bionic arm, and the king gets that brodkill problem solved. Yeah, we'll give you a NG combat robot, but weve got a small army of zombies roaming the countryside. Like that SAMSON Power Armor? Well, the mayor's daughter was kidnapped by vampires. Nice UAR-1 you got there. Whats that? Multiplel radar contacts squawking Coalition ID?

You get the idea. Wanna play? Gotta pay. but not monies. No character can amass or steal that much money.

Or worse. Ever seen that movie "Lord of War?" Maybe the characters get paid in super illegal drugs, worth several million credits. Or Necromantic supplies.

Option three is the war campaign, where the entire party gets some form of war machine (robots and armor for the pilots, APC/tank for the non-men of arms characters) and they are hired guns instead of freelance adventurers. The characters are issued their gear, military style, and must return them after missions.


Good post.
:ok:

And yes, Rifts lends itself well to bartering and other non-monetary transactions!
It's one of the many cool aspects of the setting.

_________________
Annual Best Poster of the Year Awards (2012)

"That rifle on the wall of the laborer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -George Orwell

Check out my Author Page on Amazon!


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:29 am
  

Hero

Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:22 am
Posts: 1317
slade2501 wrote:
"Or, how I stopped worrying about price tags and learned to love the Rifts."

SO, uhm. I feel real stupid saying this, but I just came to the conclusion that the massive price tags on the average weapon and suit of power armor (never mind a robot) were not realistically designed to be accomplish able goals for the average player character or group of player characters. I mean, what D&D player ever spent 10 plus million gold on ANYTHING?


Uhh.. any Warrior or Priest that reached 9th level and wanted their followers did. Castles are EXPENSIVE.

=P No comment on the other parts of the thread, but as an old school D&D guy..

Or, play Spelljammer. Ships are EXPENSIVE. So are Spelljamming Helms.

Edit: Okay, comment on the rest of the text:

Find a CS Patrol driving around in their most common troop transport - the Mark V APC. Ambush and kill the CS Patrol (prefferably with some ruse or subterfuge to get most of them out of the Mark V so you dont have to destroy it); not an insignificant task (as you're likely staring down 20 CS Grunts in Heavy Armor + 6 Old-style or Smiling jack SAMs/4 infantry PA + 2 hovercycles.

Tough pill to swallow, sure, but with a well prepared ambush and the right mix of spells and abilities (assuming your party believes in party diversity), even a batch of 1st or 2nd level characters could pull it off.

If you dont damage the Mark V too much, or can repair the armor damage before selling it, it will net you a little over THREE MILLION credits. (Black Market pays 15% on CS vehicles - or more, but well use the base 15% here).

It's really NOT that hard to make big piles of cash if you're smart. Also, check out the bounties in Merc Ops. Most of those are in the millions of credits and all but one or two (taking out the guys with the uprated Naruni Hovertank might be a serious problem, for instance... catch them outside the tank, IMO) are pretty easy captures or kills as long as you dont run in guns-a-blazin like fools.

And that doesn't even include loot.

Get those guys with the Hovertank outside their tank and manage to capture it? If you didn't want to use it (you know, shot on sight and all, but it does have a cupola mounted Boom Gun as a *secondary* weapon) its worth about 20 million all on its own. That doesn't even include the bounties.

Further edit: Not that im poo-pooing the idea of a game largely based around barter. In fact, i'd agree that the further you get from "civilization", the less and less credits matter because there's no place to spen them so the locals dont care about them.

But i dont think your assertion that PCs were never meant to buy those things because they are expensive is at all true. Depending on the type of game the GM is running and the type of enemies you run into (and how smart your PCs are about taking damage and expending expensive ammo thus racking up high costs of operation) its not that hard to make a decent chunk of change even just selling weapons and body armor.

If you can salvage a few complete suits of armor from an encounter (by taking some headshots on some guys and not on others, for instance), and all their guns and e-clips, even wiping out a band of six to ten CS troops (even in old-school gear) will net you a decent chunk, even at the 10% price the BM pays. Every rifle is roughly 3-5k credits, every pistol another 1-2k, armor is 5k, e-clips actually sell very well (they get a much higher rate), as do explosives like grenades. As long as you didn't incur a butload of expenses, its not hard to make a decent living just selling the crap off the people you kill.

_________________
Im loving the Foes list; it's the only thing keeping me from tearing out my eyes from the dumb.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:53 am
  

Palladin

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:11 pm
Posts: 6468
honestly, i don't think there are too many groups of first level PCs who should be planning to ambush a fully loaded mark V APC. i mean, apart from the fact that it means you're probably in or near CS territory (and therefore probably within range of SAMAS patrols, other nearby squads, and maybe even close enough for medium range missiles to offer support from other nearby units within the first couple of rounds), the action economy is really gonna screw you over hard. you better have some absolutely mind-blowingly strong advantages if you're gonna try to pull off this kind of stuff, unless you're talking groups like i've heard kevin used to run with 17 characters in them or something like that.

and then, when all is said and done, *you* don't have 3 million credits. you have one share of 3 million credits (if you weren't the unlucky guy who just got 15 lasers to the face, and didn't ever make it to the part where you get a share of the loot). *if* you somehow managed to persuade everyone to get out and leave the door unlocked, as opposed to, say, leaving the driver inside with a few guards, and probably also having standing orders to do whatever the land version of scuttling a ship is if someone tries to capture it. and given they tend to be on the fanatical side, i honestly wouldn't be too surprised if some of them would just blow it up with themselves inside rather than let it fall into the hands of anything that remotely qualifies as having "party diversity" even if there isn't some relatively straightforward process of rendering the vehicle unusable (but seriously, just cracking open the nuclear power supply should do the trick - i imagine the price for a marv V goes down considerably when the whole thing is irradiated).

now, the general concept, i can more or less agree with; given careful planning, good use of abilities, and some luck, it is possible for a group to come into a fairly large sum of money. but i wouldn't recommend you try to do it by getting into firefights with large numbers of CS soldiers.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:48 pm
  

Hero

Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:22 am
Posts: 1317
I don't want to get too side-tracky, so if this is going to go on beyond this we can make a new thread about party tactics or something...

Shark_Force wrote:
honestly, i don't think there are too many groups of first level PCs who should be planning to ambush a fully loaded mark V APC.


Considering the abysmal rate at which you gain extra attacks, being higher than first level isn't really a huge advantage for about 90% of classes. Its seriously beneficial to mystic-type magic users and psychics, but that's really about it.

Quote:
i mean, apart from the fact that it means you're probably in or near CS territory


This doesn't wash. the CS patrols hundreds of miles outside its own borders on a regular basis, particularly into the Magic Zone. (SB1, SB1r, CWC, FoM/r, etc)

Quote:
(and therefore probably within range of SAMAS patrols,)


They actually have 6 SAMs on board, standard, if you read the loadout above. Or 4 infantry PAs + 2 hovercycles (which might mean rocket cycles in later times). Never said it was gonna be super easy.

Quote:
other nearby squads,


Only if there are any. This isn't something i'd want to try to pull inside CS territory.

Quote:
and maybe even close enough for medium range missiles to offer support from other nearby units within the first couple of rounds),


This is a non-starter unless the units firing the missiles can target you. There are no rules for passing coordinates or anything like that. if the guys with the MRMs cant pick you up on sensors, they cant shoot at you.

Quote:
the action economy is really gonna screw you over hard. you better have some absolutely mind-blowingly strong advantages


In a typical 40 man infantry platoon, only 4 of the troops will have non-energy weapons with any significant range, and only the sergeants and the platoon LT will have a C-5 pump pistol (which lacks significant range). Impervious to Energy makes the action economy pointless. Let them shoot you. They aren't doing anything. Blow away the guys with the rocket launchers first. Or just shoot the launchers. They dont have a ton of MDC. That way no one else can pick them up and use them.

The real issue is the SAMs. Those rail guns are dangerous.

Also, Carpet of Adhesion is stronk. It can turn that entire platoon into helpless targets.

Invisibility: Lesser is murderously strong - given that it give anyone trying to attack you a -10 to hit. And doesn't go down when you attack. And is hillariously cheap on PPE. (edit: -9 to hit)
Quote:
if you're gonna try to pull off this kind of stuff, unless you're talking groups like i've heard kevin used to run with 17 characters in them or something like that.
and then, when all is said and done, *you* don't have 3 million credits. you have one share of 3 million credits (if you weren't the unlucky guy who just got 15 lasers to the face, and didn't ever make it to the part where you get a share of the loot).


Quote:
*if* you somehow managed to persuade everyone to get out and leave the door unlocked, as opposed to, say, leaving the driver inside with a few guards,


The crew of the APC itself is certainly inside, which is the driver, gunner, assistant driver/comm officer and a door gunner or two. But this is where im talking "party diversity". Telemechanics is a wonderful thing. They cant really lock you out if you have the right (fairly basic) set of powers. A lot of Rifts groups ive seen tend to eschew party balance though, and often end up with no Pisionic or Magic using characters. I wouldn't try this with that party. That'd be suicide.

Quote:
and probably also having standing orders to do whatever the land version of scuttling a ship is if someone tries to capture it. and given they tend to be on the fanatical side, i honestly wouldn't be too surprised if some of them would just blow it up with themselves inside rather than let it fall into the hands of anything that remotely qualifies as having "party diversity" even if there isn't some relatively straightforward process of rendering the vehicle unusable (but seriously, just cracking open the nuclear power supply should do the trick - i imagine the price for a marv V goes down considerably when the whole thing is irradiated).


There is no self destruct listed on the Mark V, and there is nothing to say that the reactor is even reachable. There's also nothing to say it isn't, but the average soldiers in the CS aren't as fanatic as you're painting it for one thing (CWC, SB1/r, SB4 CSN, Lone Star), and a lot of them would probably surrender if they just watched 30+ of their buddies get gunned down and were told theyd be left alive if they bail out and hand over the Mark V. Particularly if they are currently stuck in a CoA and cant move.

Quote:
now, the general concept, i can more or less agree with; given careful planning, good use of abilities, and some luck, it is possible for a group to come into a fairly large sum of money. but i wouldn't recommend you try to do it by getting into firefights with large numbers of CS soldiers.


Now, im not saying that its going to be easy for a low level party. It certainly wont be. Itll be easier for a high level party (because if you have a TW he can outfit the party with some seriously potent gear that makes CS infantry encounters laughably easy) because of better spell and psionics selection, but it's doable if you plan it right.

And the Mark V was just the first thing that came to mind. You dont have to shoot that big. You can rack up decent spoils just collecting weapons and armor, as long as you dont expend too much. Heck, even just wiping out some bandits that all have hovercycles or something can net you a couple hundred thousand pretty quick.

_________________
Im loving the Foes list; it's the only thing keeping me from tearing out my eyes from the dumb.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:54 am
  

Palladin

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:11 pm
Posts: 6468
impervious to energy is a level 6 spell, meaning no guaranteed access for anyone before level 6. grenades are standard issue for dead boys, as is a non-energy weapon of choice, and the CS does have underbarrel grenade launchers on the 12 C-14 rifles that are standard for the vehicle (note: those are not the . and while i'm sure the CS patrols at long range, i have my doubts they're driving a mark V through trackless wilderness for hundreds of miles. simple invisibility doesn't work against infrared or thermal sensors, which are cheap and widely available, including being available to all dead boys upon assignment unless their superior officer hates all of them. long-range radar is fairly standard, and the CS has an air force these days. oh, and also the vehicle itself has a rail gun better than a SAMAS, a pair of mini-missile launchers, and a pair of autocannons that hit a 20 foot radius for heavy damage.

i would not expect all or even most of the group of 4-6 people who try to ambush a mark V to come out alive (and when you're talking about having a "diverse group", level does count for quite a bit as you've already noted). large numbers of people with decent weapons output a *lot* of damage.

now, you can still earn some good money in various ways. i just don't recommend picking fights with groups several times larger than your own to be one of those ways.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:44 am
  

User avatar
Knight

Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:39 pm
Posts: 4272
Why do you have to ambush the Mark V while it's mobile? Wait until they stop to break camp (they will have to sleep after all).

They will probably send smaller squads out on patrols while they are stopped.

Jam their radios. Throw mud at their helmets so they either have to spend time cleaning it or take it off making their heads vulnerable. Don't fight them all at once.

_________________
Under the Pain of Death
I would Stand Alone
Against an Army of Darkness
And Horrors Unknown


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:53 pm
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Posts: 8873
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Just one thought here before this goes all side tracked on if a party of 4-6 people can or can not take out a Mark V (or other group of CS or fill in the blank) and use them as "loot piñatas" is a popular term.

The answer is "it depends."
It depends on how the GM chooses to have their world set up.
It depends on where the "Lethality" dial is turned to at that particular table.
It depends on where the "grittiness" dial is turned to at that particular table.
It depends on where the "realism" dial is turned to at that particular table.
It depends on where the "cinematic" dial is turned to at that particular table.
It depends on what level of tactical planning the GM is willing to allow NPCs to have.
It depends on the level of tactical knowledge the GM has.
It depends on the level of tactical knowledge the PCs have.
It depends on the level of tactical knowledge the Players have.
It depends on what the party is made up of.
It depends on what resources are available to PCs in that particular game.
It depends on what resources are not available to PCs in that particular game.
It depends on where and when the game is being set.
In short it depends on so many variables that there is no way to have a realistic "debate" about it... because there is quite literally nothing to debate. It comes down to "if it is possible in your game then you can do it. If it is not possible in your game then you can't."

_________________
Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


It's RIFTS Earth; the impossible happens before breakfast, twice on Tuesdays. And if it hasn't, then the GM hasn't tried hard enough and the players are lazy. :D -DhAkael

Knowledge is Power, Power Corrupts, Study Hard


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:18 pm
  

Hero

Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:22 am
Posts: 1317
Shark_Force wrote:
impervious to energy is a level 6 spell, meaning no guaranteed access for anyone before level 6.


Orly? Techno Wizards start with it by default (though, oddly, in their pre-made TW armor that they start with, can't have that spell.... go figure). 3 of the other 5 or 6 top mage classes (Shifter, Temporal Wizard, and Temporal Warrior) can all start with it at first level, just off the top of my head, without going through a bunch of books. Also, sixth level spells are not in the "only available once in a blue moon" range. Theyre expensive, but can be purchased.

Quote:
grenades are standard issue for dead boys,


Arms that throw grenades 1500-2000ft are not, however.

Quote:
as is a non-energy weapon of choice,


If you're playing one as a PC, perhaps, but not as stated in the sourcebooks. (SB1/r, CWC, Siege books for typical coalition squad, their composition and weapon breakdowns).

Quote:
and the CS does have underbarrel grenade launchers on the 12 C-14 rifles that are standard for the vehicle


Theyll have to run inside to get them, as they aren't standard for the Grunts themselves. And they only shoot 1000ft (the grenade launcher; the rifle has a commendable 2000ft range).

Quote:
(note: those are not the . and while i'm sure the CS patrols at long range, i have my doubts they're driving a mark V through trackless wilderness for hundreds of miles.


Doubt all you like, but the average long range patrols are statted out in the books. That's what im going on. They do, in fact, drive Mark Vs through trackless wilderness for hundreds of miles. And sometimes dont even give them Mark Vs. They just go out in platoon strength boots-on-the-ground.

Quote:
simple invisibility doesn't work against infrared or thermal sensors, which are cheap and widely available,


And just about entirely useless during the day and do not see 1500ft+ for the man portable versions. The SAMs may have you dialed in though, or at least, can rapidly close the range.

Quote:
including being available to all dead boys upon assignment unless their superior officer hates all of them. long-range radar is fairly standard,


Great. Im not sure what that's going to do about a bunch of guys shooting you from the trees though. Radar isn't some magical Star Trek like sensor that can pinpoint things over terrain, through objects, from 50 miles away. You have to have clear line of sight.

Quote:
and the CS has an air force these days.


A fairly bad one, to be honest, especially compared to the NGR's Luftwaffe. CS Aircraft simply dont go fast enough to get there in time to help.

Quote:
oh, and also the vehicle itself has a rail gun better than a SAMAS, a pair of mini-missile launchers, and a pair of autocannons that hit a 20 foot radius for heavy damage.


Correct. Youll also remember that i recommended some kind of subterfuge to get the troops to disembark from the vehicle and lead them into an ambush? I know i said that.

Quote:
i would not expect all or even most of the group of 4-6 people who try to ambush a mark V to come out alive (and when you're talking about having a "diverse group", level does count for quite a bit as you've already noted). large numbers of people with decent weapons output a *lot* of damage.


Only if they can actually hurt or hit you. Youll notice im not talking about running up and hugging the Mark V. Engage from max range. The only weapons they have that range you are energy weapons that cant hurt you (if your party prepared correctly) and they have a miserable chance of even hitting you. The Mark V itself has some formidable weapons, but... again, at no point was i like "just roll up and ambush the Mark V at close range with the vehicle, and all people on board at once". Use subterfuge, lay traps, etc. And range them. Stay out of the range of any of their personal weapons that are non-energy, which isn't terribly hard except against the SAMs.

Quote:
now, you can still earn some good money in various ways. i just don't recommend picking fights with groups several times larger than your own to be one of those ways.


Then you're not thinking outside the box enough. Party diversity (read: Magic and Psionics) are a massive force multiplier when used correctly and ways that are hard for the enemy to counter.

However, this entire point can be rendered moot. Screw capturing the Mark V intact. It's only got 350 MDC. Trash it.

Then salvage the reactor, the mini missiles, autocannon rounds, Rail gun and ammo, laser cannons, and all the on-board loot (rifles, plasma cannons, MM launchers and reloads, E-clips), and all the loot from the entire 20-man squad, 60 C-40R railguns (from the SAMs), etc.

Still a few hundred grand in salvage.

Enough derailing, though, if we want to have this talk, one of us can start a new thread if there is interest.

_________________
Im loving the Foes list; it's the only thing keeping me from tearing out my eyes from the dumb.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:23 pm
  

Palladin

Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:11 pm
Posts: 6468
max range for that carpet of adhesion you want to throw is 60 feet. pretty sure that's well within the range of a thrown grenade, a launched grenade, and all the kinetic weapons on the leopard. and actually, that trend pretty much applies for most of the clever stuff you want to do with magic and psionics.

magic and psionics are indeed great force multipliers, but the better decision is not to pick extremely risky fights in the first place. now, that might be as simple as "hire a group of people that don't like the CS to help" (tolkeen revenge squads, probably certain mercenary companies, have a high level shifter that can summon a ton of tectonic entities to soak damage, etc), but when your whole plan hinges on your target somehow screwing up royally, without a good idea of how you're actually going to make that happen, you've got problems. "somehow get the CS patrol to split up and let you kill them one by one" is not a plan.

now, if you can set things up so you sneak up on a pair of SAMAS (possibly in a TW flying vehicle with superior invisibility, that will become visible once you attack but *does* protect against all kinds of sensors) and you've got a couple mind melters that can use telemechanic remote control, or some other way to reliably neutralize and retrieve the loot, that's the kind of situation where you can leverage your force multipliers to make some good money without taking massive risks. 4 against 40, with nothing more than some vague plan that they're all going to co-operate in their own demise? that's just asking for disaster.


          Top  
 
Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:09 pm
  

User avatar
Palladin

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Posts: 8873
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
*goes and gets popcorn*
I suspect that this thread is now going to be sidetracked into a digression as people talk past each other about how their game is run and thus allows situations to be handled differently than how someone else's game which is run differently and thus handles situations in a different way.

Because as an outside observer here Shark_Force and Colonel_Tetsuya are talking past each other...
...as while they are both, theoretically talking about the same "thing" (raiding a CS patrol) they are both obviously coming at it with utterly different assumptions based on totally different ways that their gaming groups run things.
Neither style is 'wrong', nor is either one 'right' they are just different.
What works perfectly in one group is an invitation to a TPK in another group.
What one group considers to be basic another group considers rare.
What one group considers to be X another group considers to be Y...

If it works at your table then that's fine.
But it wont work at every table... because as I have learned over the years not everyone plays the same way.


For the simplest most obvious example...
Not every gaming group runs E-clips the same way. In fact I have yet to see any two groups that have handled the issue the exact same way.
That means that right there one of the core economic factors of the setting is already a wildcard variable at each table.
From there that means that quite literally every single economic model and game theory at every table is going to be divergently unique just on that one factor alone. That doesn't count any of the other of the dozens of factors I could name off the top of my head.

_________________
Edmund Burke wrote:
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."


It's RIFTS Earth; the impossible happens before breakfast, twice on Tuesdays. And if it hasn't, then the GM hasn't tried hard enough and the players are lazy. :D -DhAkael

Knowledge is Power, Power Corrupts, Study Hard


          Top  
 
 
Post new topic Reply to topic



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group