Survivor OCC

You are on your own. The Army is MIA and our government is gone! There are no communications of any kind. Cities and towns have gone dark, and zombies fill the streets. The dead have risen and it would seem to be the end of the world. Help me, Mommy!

Moderators: Immortals, Supreme Beings, Old Ones

User avatar
SittingBull
Hero
Posts: 1570
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:59 am
Comment: "Its not the destination that matters, its the journey along the way."
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius

Survivor OCC

Unread post by SittingBull »

Why does the Survivor OCC gain no skills as they go up in levels? Is this intentional? Is this something that was left out?

Thank you
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
User avatar
filo_clarke
Adventurer
Posts: 500
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:18 pm
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by filo_clarke »

Only some of the occupations gain new skills as they level. I assume it was intentional, but I don't agree with the decision.
User avatar
SittingBull
Hero
Posts: 1570
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:59 am
Comment: "Its not the destination that matters, its the journey along the way."
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by SittingBull »

Only reason I ask is because, practically, every DR game I am in everyone has to play survivors. I don't know about other people but one of the biggest things about gaining levels is being able to learn no skills.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
User avatar
Zer0 Kay
Megaversal® Ambassador
Posts: 13730
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:59 pm
Location: Snoqualmie, WA

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

In Kevin S. Game he didn't use any survivors instead every premade he did was a random survivor occupation with one of the other OCCs added on. As he put it the survivor occ was what they did before the wave and they learned another post wave occ.
:thwak: you some might think you're a :clown: but you're cool in book :ok: :thwak:--Mecha-Viper
BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid
Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech
Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus
The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
User avatar
SittingBull
Hero
Posts: 1570
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:59 am
Comment: "Its not the destination that matters, its the journey along the way."
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by SittingBull »

I wish someone would tell all these GMs that have you play JUST survivors. Its condemning when you know you will never get another skill. Also, the survivor is an OCC, that alone should garner it skill growth.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
User avatar
filo_clarke
Adventurer
Posts: 500
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:18 pm
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by filo_clarke »

SittingBull wrote:Also, the survivor is an OCC, that alone should garner it skill growth.


I agree, the Survivor OCC is similarly written to the Ordinary Person OCC from Beyond the Supernatural, but then deviates as it has moved away from the person's former career, and into the realm of surviving the zombie apocalypse. They should have removed all reference of skill growth from the careers, and instead added a flat skill progression to the Survivor OCC. This is especially useful if a GM is taking a group from "Day 1" of the apocalypse, and into the horror of the future. Why do the Extreme Sports Athlete and Fighting Competitor continue to develop skills after the rise of the dead, but the Professional Thief and Thug/Gang Banger are locked in their roles forever?

I mean, imagine surviving the Zombie Apocalypse for, say 10 years, but NEVER being able to learn Lore: Zombies... that would frustrate me.
User avatar
SittingBull
Hero
Posts: 1570
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:59 am
Comment: "Its not the destination that matters, its the journey along the way."
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by SittingBull »

Exactly.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
User avatar
Zer0 Kay
Megaversal® Ambassador
Posts: 13730
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:59 pm
Location: Snoqualmie, WA

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

SittingBull wrote:Exactly.

Okay Christopher Lambert playing Raiden
:thwak: you some might think you're a :clown: but you're cool in book :ok: :thwak:--Mecha-Viper
BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid
Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech
Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus
The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
User avatar
SittingBull
Hero
Posts: 1570
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:59 am
Comment: "Its not the destination that matters, its the journey along the way."
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by SittingBull »

Zer0 Kay wrote:
SittingBull wrote:Exactly.

Okay Christopher Lambert playing Raiden


o.O Hmmm?
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
User avatar
Zer0 Kay
Megaversal® Ambassador
Posts: 13730
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:59 pm
Location: Snoqualmie, WA

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by Zer0 Kay »

SittingBull wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
SittingBull wrote:Exactly.

Okay Christopher Lambert playing Raiden


o.O Hmmm?


From the ever so campy or is that crappy Mortal Kombat Movie

Sonya Blade (Bridgette Wilson-Sampras):
A handful of people on a leaky boat are gonna save the world?

Lord Rayden (Christopher Lambert):
Exactly!
:thwak: you some might think you're a :clown: but you're cool in book :ok: :thwak:--Mecha-Viper
BEST IDEA EVER!!! -- The Galactus Kid
Holy crapy, you're Zer0 Kay?! --TriaxTech
Zer0 Kay is my hero. --Atramentus
The Zer0 of Kay, who started this fray,
Kept us laughing until the end. -The Fifth Business (In loving Memory of the teleport thread)
User avatar
SittingBull
Hero
Posts: 1570
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:59 am
Comment: "Its not the destination that matters, its the journey along the way."
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by SittingBull »

Zer0 Kay wrote:
SittingBull wrote:
Zer0 Kay wrote:
SittingBull wrote:Exactly.

Okay Christopher Lambert playing Raiden


o.O Hmmm?


From the ever so campy or is that crappy Mortal Kombat Movie

Sonya Blade (Bridgette Wilson-Sampras):
A handful of people on a leaky boat are gonna save the world?

Lord Rayden (Christopher Lambert):
Exactly!


Missed that movie it seems or didn't recognize him.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
User avatar
SittingBull
Hero
Posts: 1570
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:59 am
Comment: "Its not the destination that matters, its the journey along the way."
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by SittingBull »

filo_clarke wrote:
SittingBull wrote:Also, the survivor is an OCC, that alone should garner it skill growth.


I agree, the Survivor OCC is similarly written to the Ordinary Person OCC from Beyond the Supernatural, but then deviates as it has moved away from the person's former career, and into the realm of surviving the zombie apocalypse. They should have removed all reference of skill growth from the careers, and instead added a flat skill progression to the Survivor OCC. This is especially useful if a GM is taking a group from "Day 1" of the apocalypse, and into the horror of the future. Why do the Extreme Sports Athlete and Fighting Competitor continue to develop skills after the rise of the dead, but the Professional Thief and Thug/Gang Banger are locked in their roles forever?

I mean, imagine surviving the Zombie Apocalypse for, say 10 years, but NEVER being able to learn Lore: Zombies... that would frustrate me.


Especially with the limited skill selection so popular with the Dead Reign setting.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
User avatar
filo_clarke
Adventurer
Posts: 500
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:18 pm
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by filo_clarke »

SittingBull wrote:Especially with the limited skill selection so popular with the Dead Reign setting.


Right, consider that a "Commercial Illustrator" is going to be thrust into a survival situation that he/she is completely unprepared for. It is a bit of an insult to the player when they find out that while they can NEVER learn Wilderness Survival, I.D. Plants & Fruits, or Lore: Zombies. While the "Factory Worker" sitting next to them learns THREE Secondary skills at odd levels. But there is no Justification for it. Some occupations get to learn new skills, and some don't... it's like a crap-shoot, and doesn't seem fair at all. If there were some trade-off for not learning any new skills, then I would be fine with it, but there doesn't seem to be.
User avatar
SittingBull
Hero
Posts: 1570
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:59 am
Comment: "Its not the destination that matters, its the journey along the way."
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by SittingBull »

I did not know that some survivor did, indeed, learn additional skills while others didnt.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
User avatar
SittingBull
Hero
Posts: 1570
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:59 am
Comment: "Its not the destination that matters, its the journey along the way."
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by SittingBull »

Athlete extreme sports 2@ 1 3 4 8 12
athlete fighting competitor 1@ 1 3 6 9 12 15
builder/house construction contractor 2@ 1 4 8 12
communication engineer 3@ 1 5 10
computer programmer/system engineer 3@ 1 5 10
computer technician 3@ 1 5 10
construction worker/crane operator 3@ 1 5 10
electrical engineer or mechanical 2@ 1 3 7 11 14
factory worker 3@ 1 3 7 11 15
journalist/media reporter/creative writer 3@ 1 5 10
police officer 4@ 3 6 9 12
detective 2@ 1 4 8 12
undercover officer 2@ 1 4 8 12
swat 2@ 1 3 7 12
professional driver 5+1@ 4 8 12
professional driver big rigs 5+1@ 4 8 12
professional driver specialized 5+1@ 4 8 12
scientist/professor 2@ 1 3 7 11 14
college student 2+1@ 2 4 8 12


These survivor OCCs get these secondary skills. What would you think the other survivor OCCs would get for secondary skills as they leveled up? Just an average spread, not looking to figure out specific ones for each survivor OCC.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
User avatar
filo_clarke
Adventurer
Posts: 500
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:18 pm
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by filo_clarke »

I, personally, would find an analog for each type of occupation in another Palladium setting (Vagabond, Body Fixer, Peasant...) and use their skill progression.

In the alternative, I would ignore all of the skill leveling for all of the occupations, and go with a single leveling guide for the "Survivor OCC" as a whole, maybe based on the Vagabond or similar class.

But, wow, the Factory Worker and Police Officer get a bunch of skills...
User avatar
SittingBull
Hero
Posts: 1570
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:59 am
Comment: "Its not the destination that matters, its the journey along the way."
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by SittingBull »

Ok. What would you, Filo, say for starting and additional secondary skills for all survivors overall? If you want to take the time to answer that.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
User avatar
filo_clarke
Adventurer
Posts: 500
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:18 pm
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by filo_clarke »

I would write something like:

Elective Skills: If no additional Elective skills per level are mentioned under the chosen occupation, the Survivor receives +1 Elective skill at levels 3, 6, 9 and 12. These selections get the benefit of any bonuses noted under the occupation.

Secondary Skills: If no additional Secondary skills per level are mentioned under the chosen occupation, the Survivor receives +1 Secondary Skill at levels 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 and 13. Selections are made from the Secondary Skill list in the Skill Section. These are additional areas of knowledge that do not gain any special bonuses, other than possible bonuses from having a high IQ. All Secondary skills start at the base level.
User avatar
SittingBull
Hero
Posts: 1570
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:59 am
Comment: "Its not the destination that matters, its the journey along the way."
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by SittingBull »

No survivor OCC gets more elective skills.

Thank you on the secondary skills guestimate.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
User avatar
thorr-kan
Adventurer
Posts: 495
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:09 am

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by thorr-kan »

I could have sworn that someplace in one of the Ordinary People, Civilian, or Survivor OCCs I saw a note that if nothing else was listed, characters got new skills at x, y, and z levels. No joy.
I have a blog; come see what I've created: https://thewhiteminotaur.wordpress.com/
-The 2024 Character Creation Challenge (#charactercreationchallenge):
https://thewhiteminotaur.wordpress.com/ ... challenge/
User avatar
SittingBull
Hero
Posts: 1570
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:59 am
Comment: "Its not the destination that matters, its the journey along the way."
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by SittingBull »

If you find it, let me know. Thank you.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
User avatar
Razzinold
Hero
Posts: 1568
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2004 7:51 pm
Comment: HTTP 404 [witty comment not found]
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by Razzinold »

As a GM I would allow the Survivor OCC to gain new skills, but perhaps limit them.

I think they should develop skills that are relevant to survival.
Wilderness Survival
Jury Rig
Zombie Lore
Stuff like that.

They should also be able to learn some weapon skills, but nothing like medical doctor or pilot helicopter.
I don't care if there is a doctor in your group there is no way either of you have the time for him/her to teach you their trade. Basic first aid yes, but that's it.
User avatar
SittingBull
Hero
Posts: 1570
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:59 am
Comment: "Its not the destination that matters, its the journey along the way."
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by SittingBull »

Razzinold wrote:As a GM I would allow the Survivor OCC to gain new skills, but perhaps limit them.

I think they should develop skills that are relevant to survival.
Wilderness Survival
Jury Rig
Zombie Lore
Stuff like that.

They should also be able to learn some weapon skills, but nothing like medical doctor or pilot helicopter.
I don't care if there is a doctor in your group there is no way either of you have the time for him/her to teach you their trade. Basic first aid yes, but that's it.


Oh I agree, common sense.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
User avatar
filo_clarke
Adventurer
Posts: 500
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:18 pm
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by filo_clarke »

Realistically, this is how all of the settings should treat skill learning. Wandering around the wilderness for 6-weeks would not facilitate your learning Electrical Engineering. I wish there were concrete rules for teaching skills (similar to those found under the Rogue Scholar in Rifts) where any competent character could impart a skill (even if only a Secondary) through lessons. It would be nice if the Mechanic OCC could teach Automotive Mechanics to another team member, even if he is not a Rogue Scholar.
User avatar
Omega6
D-Bee
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:16 pm
Location: Kennewick Washington

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by Omega6 »

On any of the survivors that do not list new secondary skills, I have made a house rule of +1 secondary skill every even level.
User avatar
Tor
Palladin
Posts: 6975
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:37 pm
Comment: If you have something to say, back it up with thoughts and reasons. Simply posting to agree or disagree tends to be a waste.
Location: Pyramid

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by Tor »

How come no option for a 'Plumber' background under the survivor/normal person OCC? Would be useful when dealing with sewers and stuff right? Getting potable water, etc?
"1st edition? 2nd edition? It doesnt matter! Let's just talk" -Forums of the Megaverse
User avatar
SittingBull
Hero
Posts: 1570
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:59 am
Comment: "Its not the destination that matters, its the journey along the way."
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by SittingBull »

Wouldnt plumber fall under construction (or house construction)?
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
User avatar
jedi078
Champion
Posts: 2360
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 8:21 pm
Comment: The next group of player characters to surrender in one of my games are going to play Russian roulette.
Location: Salem, Oregon

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by jedi078 »

Since my game is currently occurring just hours after the dead began to arise it makes no sense whatsoever for players to start off with anything but the survivor OCC.

Now one problem I've run into with allowing characters level up skills right before they start the game is that they meta game and pick a bunch of skills meant to combat Zombies or survive with. They even do this with elective and secondary skills and then when I ask them to rationalize it I get some pretty stupid answers. So I had to put my foot down as the GM and tell the players sorry don't pick any level up skills.

Anyhow the plan in my game is that as the characters level up in game they'll gain a new Elective skill per level to account for learning new skills. But only as they level up in game.

I also plan to have PC's dual class into one of the post apocalypse OCC's at some point.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem".
Ronald Reagan, President of the United States; 1985
User avatar
SittingBull
Hero
Posts: 1570
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:59 am
Comment: "Its not the destination that matters, its the journey along the way."
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by SittingBull »

Its sad a few players have to ruin the ability for the rest of the players to grow before they are able to (shudder) dual class.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
User avatar
SittingBull
Hero
Posts: 1570
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:59 am
Comment: "Its not the destination that matters, its the journey along the way."
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by SittingBull »

Sadly, I have always found dual-classing to lead to meta gaming more than anything else.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
User avatar
jedi078
Champion
Posts: 2360
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 8:21 pm
Comment: The next group of player characters to surrender in one of my games are going to play Russian roulette.
Location: Salem, Oregon

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by jedi078 »

SittingBull wrote:Sadly, I have always found dual-classing to lead to meta gaming more than anything else.

Not the way I plan to do it. Characters will actually have some of their Occupation/Elective/Secondary skills freeze (or lose them altogether) to make room for the new OCC skills.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, the Marines don't have that problem".
Ronald Reagan, President of the United States; 1985
User avatar
SittingBull
Hero
Posts: 1570
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:59 am
Comment: "Its not the destination that matters, its the journey along the way."
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by SittingBull »

Loose?!
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
User avatar
SittingBull
Hero
Posts: 1570
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:59 am
Comment: "Its not the destination that matters, its the journey along the way."
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by SittingBull »

Seriously loose?!
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
User avatar
SittingBull
Hero
Posts: 1570
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:59 am
Comment: "Its not the destination that matters, its the journey along the way."
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by SittingBull »

Cant loose any physical skill (unrealistic) and would have to roll the amount of the bonus to loose which could wind up causing the character to loose more than they gained. That leaves only non-physical skills to axe.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
User avatar
Eric42
Wanderer
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:37 am

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by Eric42 »

My personal experience with playing in the first days of the zombie apoc. had been bad. I am under the impression that the game was designed to be months later and that is why some of the skills are setup the way it is. Time has passed so the secondary and elective skills that they picked up in character creation is what they've learned since the zero day. But I think having rules for allowing players to learn something else as time progresses.

I will allow players to pick up skills, but I do this very rarely. For instance, if players go through some basic military training, they would then have a hand to hand skill that didn't have before. I have had players not choose a h2h skill before and nearly die because of it.
User avatar
Tor
Palladin
Posts: 6975
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:37 pm
Comment: If you have something to say, back it up with thoughts and reasons. Simply posting to agree or disagree tends to be a waste.
Location: Pyramid

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by Tor »

SittingBull wrote:Cant loose any physical skill (unrealistic)

Why's it unrealistic? If you stopped practicing a physical skill then the body would probably atrophy and lose its fitness. If a guy quit running or bodybuilding for 10 years and ate junk food, he probably wouldn't be any better off.

SittingBull wrote:would have to roll the amount of the bonus to loose which could wind up causing the character to loose more than they gained.

Not if the person kept track of how much they rolled in the first place.

But even if they didn't, I don't see a problem with losing more than you gained. Time has passed, the person is aging, sometimes people acquire injuries or chronic conditions from athletics.

jedi078 wrote:
SittingBull wrote:Sadly, I have always found dual-classing to lead to meta gaming more than anything else.

Not the way I plan to do it. Characters will actually have some of their Occupation/Elective/Secondary skills freeze (or lose them altogether) to make room for the new OCC skills.

The skills freezing is how dual-classing (well, changing/multiple OCCs) works anyway.

For some brutal guidelines on losing skills, there's the City Rat OCC update in Rifts' Bionics sourcebook. I think the ones in Palladium Fantasy's Island thing is also nasty.
"1st edition? 2nd edition? It doesnt matter! Let's just talk" -Forums of the Megaverse
User avatar
SittingBull
Hero
Posts: 1570
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:59 am
Comment: "Its not the destination that matters, its the journey along the way."
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by SittingBull »

Unrealistic when it comes to skills that rely on muscle memory. Muscle memory comes back pretty quickly, depending on how much you rely or use it after a long time not using it.

I have never met any player who kept track of what they rolled for every plus to hp, sdc, and stats.

Anyway, the dual-classing issue doesn't matter now.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
User avatar
Tor
Palladin
Posts: 6975
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:37 pm
Comment: If you have something to say, back it up with thoughts and reasons. Simply posting to agree or disagree tends to be a waste.
Location: Pyramid

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by Tor »

Keeping track of rolls is easy enough if you're using spreadsheet software. I like to make notes of how I calculated the stats in case a GM wonders.

A fun house rule can also be to reroll HP or SDC over time to account for fluctuations in vitality, like if adapting and getting stronger to the stresses of life, over-fatigued and chronic conditions, or atrophying.
"1st edition? 2nd edition? It doesnt matter! Let's just talk" -Forums of the Megaverse
User avatar
SittingBull
Hero
Posts: 1570
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:59 am
Comment: "Its not the destination that matters, its the journey along the way."
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by SittingBull »

Might work for gaming online but for in real life, saying spreadsheet would probably end the game before it started.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
User avatar
wick
Wanderer
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:02 am
Location: Bellevue, NE

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by wick »

How would you deal with the extra levels in an OCC players may potentially start with when dual classing into another OCC? Would they have to get enough XP to get to, say level 4 Artist, before dual classing into another OCC?

I do like the suggestion of having characters start with a survivor OCC and then go into a post apocalypse OCC. THE PA OCCs seem much much more powerful than most of the Survivor OCCs.
User avatar
say652
Palladin
Posts: 6609
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:32 am
Comment: Avid Cyborg and Braka Braka enthusiast.
Location: 'Murica

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by say652 »

I find the fairest to be Rifts main book rules on Juicers dual classing.

You only get seven new skills at level one in your new occ, then advance as normal.
User avatar
SittingBull
Hero
Posts: 1570
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:59 am
Comment: "Its not the destination that matters, its the journey along the way."
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by SittingBull »

wick wrote:How would you deal with the extra levels in an OCC players may potentially start with when dual classing into another OCC? Would they have to get enough XP to get to, say level 4 Artist, before dual classing into another OCC?

I do like the suggestion of having characters start with a survivor OCC and then go into a post apocalypse OCC. THE PA OCCs seem much much more powerful than most of the Survivor OCCs.


Playing a survivor occ only works, for the most part, if starting very recently after the rising of the zombies.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
Kealios
D-Bee
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:43 pm
Location: San Jose, CA
Contact:

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by Kealios »

I am new to Dead Reign, though I used to play Palladium stuff like, 20+ years ago? Wow, yea, it's been awhile.

How do you dual-O.C.C.? I don't see rules in DR, and maybe I need to pick up other titles?

I ask because I am starting a campaign on Day 1 of the Wave, but I think after a week or two in-game, we'll skip forward a few months. Starting the PCs off as Survivors makes sense, but I think changing them over to another class is the best route...
User avatar
filo_clarke
Adventurer
Posts: 500
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:18 pm
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by filo_clarke »

Kealios wrote:I am new to Dead Reign, though I used to play Palladium stuff like, 20+ years ago? Wow, yea, it's been awhile.

How do you dual-O.C.C.? I don't see rules in DR, and maybe I need to pick up other titles?

I ask because I am starting a campaign on Day 1 of the Wave, but I think after a week or two in-game, we'll skip forward a few months. Starting the PCs off as Survivors makes sense, but I think changing them over to another class is the best route...


Actually, the Survivor O.C.C. is an easy one to multiclass; Since you are required to pick/roll a previous occupation, and then establish what level it was at before the apocalypse (roll 1D4), all you have to do is ignore the level roll (everyone starts at 1st level, and continue from there.
Kealios
D-Bee
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:43 pm
Location: San Jose, CA
Contact:

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by Kealios »

filo_clarke wrote:
Kealios wrote:I am new to Dead Reign, though I used to play Palladium stuff like, 20+ years ago? Wow, yea, it's been awhile.

How do you dual-O.C.C.? I don't see rules in DR, and maybe I need to pick up other titles?

I ask because I am starting a campaign on Day 1 of the Wave, but I think after a week or two in-game, we'll skip forward a few months. Starting the PCs off as Survivors makes sense, but I think changing them over to another class is the best route...


Actually, the Survivor O.C.C. is an easy one to multiclass; Since you are required to pick/roll a previous occupation, and then establish what level it was at before the apocalypse (roll 1D4), all you have to do is ignore the level roll (everyone starts at 1st level, and continue from there.


That makes sense...but I am lacking a fundamental understanding of the whole "Multiclass" procedure. Do we just start leveling into lvl 2 using another class? What book should I read up on this in?
User avatar
filo_clarke
Adventurer
Posts: 500
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:18 pm
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by filo_clarke »

Kealios wrote:That makes sense...but I am lacking a fundamental understanding of the whole "Multiclass" procedure. Do we just start leveling into lvl 2 using another class? What book should I read up on this in?


I believe the multicast rules are available somewhere on the Palladium website, and probably the forums as well. They were first found in the PFRPG High Seas book.
User avatar
Desdicardo
Newb
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:50 am

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by Desdicardo »

SittingBull wrote:I wish someone would tell all these GMs that have you play JUST survivors. Its condemning when you know you will never get another skill. Also, the survivor is an OCC, that alone should garner it skill growth.

In the games I run, because I've run across this problem with HU. I allow the players to declare 2 secondary skills they want to learn, as long as there is another player or regular NPC that has the skill or skills for them to learn from, at levels 3,6,9, and 12 they can pick up these skills at base. It seems to work and keep group balance somewhat.
No friendship can truly be without an initial clashing that discloses the metal of each too each.
User avatar
SittingBull
Hero
Posts: 1570
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:59 am
Comment: "Its not the destination that matters, its the journey along the way."
Location: Raxacoricofallapatorius

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by SittingBull »

I just like the idea of playing a survivor, instead of a main stream Dead Reign OCC, but that is me. Makes it feel more good guys Walking Dead and less bad guys Walking Dead (to me.) For most of the OCCs at least.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."
Kosh from Babylon 5
"You don't understand, so you find excuses."
Doctor Who
"Peace has made you weak. Victory has defeated you."
Bane
User avatar
thorr-kan
Adventurer
Posts: 495
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:09 am

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by thorr-kan »

thorr-kan wrote:I could have sworn that someplace in one of the Ordinary People, Civilian, or Survivor OCCs I saw a note that if nothing else was listed, characters got new skills at x, y, and z levels. No joy.

Found it!

Shadow Chronicles, p218: Additional Secondary Skills, for example, +1 at every 3rd level.
I have a blog; come see what I've created: https://thewhiteminotaur.wordpress.com/
-The 2024 Character Creation Challenge (#charactercreationchallenge):
https://thewhiteminotaur.wordpress.com/ ... challenge/
User avatar
hbrika
D-Bee
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:08 pm
Location: The Great White North
Contact:

Re: Survivor OCC

Unread post by hbrika »

thorr-kan wrote:
thorr-kan wrote:I could have sworn that someplace in one of the Ordinary People, Civilian, or Survivor OCCs I saw a note that if nothing else was listed, characters got new skills at x, y, and z levels. No joy.

Found it!

Shadow Chronicles, p218: Additional Secondary Skills, for example, +1 at every 3rd level.



Nice find!

No skill progression has been a known issue with the game for years! Palladium could fix it by adding a few lines to all new books. Publish an online errata for people with existing books. Problem solved.
Or if the book is never intended to be revised just make and post the errata on the Palladium site.
Never accept blindly, always question.

Give up free will at your peril.
Post Reply

Return to “Dead Reign™”