You are on your own. The Army is MIA and our government is gone! There are no communications of any kind. Cities and towns have gone dark, and zombies fill the streets. The dead have risen and it would seem to be the end of the world. Help me, Mommy!
azazel1024 wrote:I think the point is that if PB does another weapons compendium they should consider doing two things.
The first, find a fan or friend who has some actual gun experience (it doesn't even have to be super vast, but one with a resonable background, could even just be simply ex-military).
Next, KISS principal. As you mentioned, there just is not THAT much difference, on a RPG level between one selective fire 5.56mm gun and the next. YES there are differences, but generally not that vast.
It would be much easier to do the book by the following.
Have caliber catagories for range and damage (maybe have a penetration/anti-AR rating as well).
Something like say 5.56mm "short barrel", 5.56mm "long barrel", 7.62x39mm "short barrel", 7.62x39mm "long barrel", etc.
The range, damage and penetration ability is roughly the same in each catagory. Then if you want, have a list for each catagory as well with the basics for the weapon such as weight, typical magazine capacities (or internal capacity for tube/internal box mag weapons) and rough street price and/or Paramilitary purchaser price (IE an MP5 IIRC is roughly $1,200-1,400 new or so direct from H&K for a Law Enforcement Agency or Military buyer, but for general public, if it was manufacturered before the fire arms control act I think runs in the $8,000-10,000 or so price range for an automatic MP5 if you have the correct license to buy it as a civilian). Oh and rate of fire. Maybe a scentence or two if there is anything notable about it.
So for example
5.56mm "Short Barrel" Damage: 5d6 Range: 200yds, 300yds with scope Penetration: +2 to penetrate AR
Mini Ruger 14 (Short barrel version) Weight: 5.5lbs Magazine capacity: Avaible 5, 10, 15, 20 and 30 round magazines Rate of fire: Single shot, Semi-automatic Cost: $800 typical Notes: A popular short barrelled rifle. Can use both civilian .223 and military 5.56mm ammunition. A variety of accessories are available and comes with fixed stock, collapsable stock or foldable stock options as well as a front and rear pistol grip options.
AR-15 short barrel Weight: 6-7lbs Magazine capacity: Available with 10, 15, 20, 30 round magazines Rate of fire: Single shot, semi-automatic Cost: $800 typical Notes: The AR-15 "chasis" is probably one of the most popular rifle "chasis" sold in the US and around the world. There are a variety of different "uppers" and "lowers" allowing users to easily customize their rifle. Everything from shotgun uppers, to a "regular" .223 or 5.56 upper and even .50 caliber uppers are available. The short barreled version of the AR-15 is most similar cosmetically and functionally to the military M-4 Carbine (with the exception of being semi-automatic).
etc, etc, etc
Anyway, just my example, but if I was going to put together a weapons compendium that is how I'd do it. Restating damage every single time is a waste of space. Range on weapons with similar barrel lengths and calibers is going to be pretty similar and I feel like is only worth mentioning standout exceptions (say, with some "sniper" type weapons, and at that typically requires match grade ammo). No my example was not using actual specifics, just off the top of my head/rough numbers. I'd probably only include inked pictures of maybe 1-3 weapon examples in each catagory, or maybe even just a single example for each catagory. I also wouldn't try to be all inclusive. I'd pick a dozen or so of each common pistol/SMG and rifle caliber and at least one weapon for each
1. Clearly define what exactly constitute short barrels, long barrels etc.
2. You need to state what type of magazine the weapon uses. For example the Ruger Mini-14 (Inaccurate, overpriced in my opinion) uses a proprietary magazine. The NATO standard magazine (STANAG) fits many 5.56mm weapons.
3. Explaining the AR-15 to non gun people is going to require a few pages. You can't just say it has different uppers and lower.
4. I would do optics the same way as the guns. Generic with examples. i.e. Red dot sight (eotech or aimpoint comp M2), dual role (Elcan SpecterDR) fixed magnification (Trijicon ACOG) etc
I am interested in collaborating on such a project if you go forward.
Good points. I think, such as with the AR-15, it makes sense though to go with the keep it simple principal. Sure, in some places (like you mentioned with the MR14, accepting propriatary mags only), it makes sense to expand, but with some like the AR-15 it is just too much to expand fully.
Well Right now I am writing up a list of calibers, the damage they do and an example of a weapon that fires the caliber in question. Hopefully I can get it done sometime soonish.
"Having met a few brits over here i wonder about them. The Military ones I met through my dad as a kid seem to be the most ruthless men on the planet..." -Steve Hobbs
Icefalcon wrote:In any book or Rifter article, a small amount of the material would have to include weapon modifications as well.
What kind of modifications?
When I think of modifications I think of perminate changes to the weapon such as: porting (essentially a built in muzzle compensator), drilling and taping to mount scope rings, shortening the barrel or adding a longer one, cutting down or changing the stock/furniture.
Do you mean adding accessories?
Adding accesories means adding analog and electro optics, lasers IR & visble light, tactical lights, foregrips, bayonets, suppressors, etc
Adding acessories seems more likely to effect actual game play (+1 to hit, see in dark through NVGs and so on) then weapon modifications.
“When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” - C.S. Lewis
Rockwolf66 wrote:Well Right now I am writing up a list of calibers, the damage they do and an example of a weapon that fires the caliber in question. Hopefully I can get it done sometime soonish.
I hope your damage list will take into account that a longer barrels help to stablize and increase the velocity of a round. 5.56 NATO performs best out of a 20 inch M16A2/A4 barrel.
There is quite a bit to take into consideration beyond the caliber of the weapon.
“When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” - C.S. Lewis
Icefalcon wrote:In any book or Rifter article, a small amount of the material would have to include weapon modifications as well.
What kind of modifications?
When I think of modifications I think of perminate changes to the weapon such as: porting (essentially a built in muzzle compensator), drilling and taping to mount scope rings, shortening the barrel or adding a longer one, cutting down or changing the stock/furniture.
Do you mean adding accessories?
Adding accesories means adding analog and electro optics, lasers IR & visble light, tactical lights, foregrips, bayonets, suppressors, etc
Adding acessories seems more likely to effect actual game play (+1 to hit, see in dark through NVGs and so on) then weapon modifications.
Adding modifications. Stuff like adding a longer barrel will increase the range, porting would help increase accuracy, changing from internal magazine to box magazine for extra ammo count, switching out the caliber of the weapon for larger or smaller ammunition, changing the stock (because in my games folding or collapsible stocks subtract one from the strike), custom molded grips (which provide +1 to user made for and -1 to everyone else) and other such things.
Some accessories would be nice as well. I also have house-ruled that scopes and laser sights provide +1 to strike each and that scopes also take away penalties to strike for long ranges.
*Sniff, Sniff* Why does it smell like wet dog in here?!
Rockwolf66 wrote:Well Right now I am writing up a list of calibers, the damage they do and an example of a weapon that fires the caliber in question. Hopefully I can get it done sometime soonish.
I hope your damage list will take into account that a longer barrels help to stablize and increase the velocity of a round. 5.56 NATO performs best out of a 20 inch M16A2/A4 barrel.
There is quite a bit to take into consideration beyond the caliber of the weapon.
You don't want to overburden weapons with too many more rules than already exist. There has to be a balance between game and reality.
*Sniff, Sniff* Why does it smell like wet dog in here?!
Icefalcon wrote:In any book or Rifter article, a small amount of the material would have to include weapon modifications as well.
What kind of modifications?
When I think of modifications I think of perminate changes to the weapon such as: porting (essentially a built in muzzle compensator), drilling and taping to mount scope rings, shortening the barrel or adding a longer one, cutting down or changing the stock/furniture.
Do you mean adding accessories?
Adding accesories means adding analog and electro optics, lasers IR & visble light, tactical lights, foregrips, bayonets, suppressors, etc
Adding acessories seems more likely to effect actual game play (+1 to hit, see in dark through NVGs and so on) then weapon modifications.
Adding modifications. Stuff like adding a longer barrel will increase the range, porting would help increase accuracy, changing from internal magazine to box magazine for extra ammo count, switching out the caliber of the weapon for larger or smaller ammunition, changing the stock (because in my games folding or collapsible stocks subtract one from the strike), custom molded grips (which provide +1 to user made for and -1 to everyone else) and other such things.
Some accessories would be nice as well. I also have house-ruled that scopes and laser sights provide +1 to strike each and that scopes also take away penalties to strike for long ranges.
So adding a fold-able stock to a select fire Glock 18 would make it LESS accurate? Somehow that doesn't sound right.
Norbu the Enchanter: Hello friends! What brings you to my shop today?
Big Joe: We need some things enchanted to take a beating...
Norbu: Perhaps you want your weapons enchanted? Or maybe a shield or sword? I can even enchant armor!
Big Joe: We need you to enchant this Liver, this heart, and these kidneys.
Pepsi Jedi wrote:I don't really think the zombies care....
Zombies aren't the only bad guys you might have to use lethal force against. The inhumanity of man is an important element of the zombie genre.
I don't think the bad guys really care about the 20 inch barrel either. If you're going THAT SPECIFIC into the game and will give different stats for 20 or 18 inch barrels ect, then eachh gun will have like 5 or 6 different things on it to get your damage calculation.
A bit too detailed and nitpicky for 'fun'. You're talking of thousands and thousands of possible combinations.
Lt. Nyota Uhura: I'm impressed. For a moment there, I thought you were just a dumb hick who only has sex with farm animals.
I like going back to my idea of, general set damages and ranges for the same caliber, but maybe going to the level of distinction of "short barrel" and "long barrel" distinguishing. Heck you can even put in the text how each is defined. No point in going to the level of the differences in a 12 inch barrel 5.56 loaded with standard pressure rounds versus a 15 inch barrel 5.56 loaded with +P rounds versus a 20 inch barrel loaded with low drag 5.56 rounds.
Icefalcon wrote:In any book or Rifter article, a small amount of the material would have to include weapon modifications as well.
What kind of modifications?
When I think of modifications I think of perminate changes to the weapon such as: porting (essentially a built in muzzle compensator), drilling and taping to mount scope rings, shortening the barrel or adding a longer one, cutting down or changing the stock/furniture.
Do you mean adding accessories?
Adding accesories means adding analog and electro optics, lasers IR & visble light, tactical lights, foregrips, bayonets, suppressors, etc
Adding acessories seems more likely to effect actual game play (+1 to hit, see in dark through NVGs and so on) then weapon modifications.
Adding modifications. Stuff like adding a longer barrel will increase the range, porting would help increase accuracy, changing from internal magazine to box magazine for extra ammo count, switching out the caliber of the weapon for larger or smaller ammunition, changing the stock (because in my games folding or collapsible stocks subtract one from the strike), custom molded grips (which provide +1 to user made for and -1 to everyone else) and other such things.
Some accessories would be nice as well. I also have house-ruled that scopes and laser sights provide +1 to strike each and that scopes also take away penalties to strike for long ranges.
So adding a fold-able stock to a select fire Glock 18 would make it LESS accurate? Somehow that doesn't sound right.
OK, so pistols would get more accuracy, but I was speaking of rifles. You do not have to intentionally misconstrue my words.
*Sniff, Sniff* Why does it smell like wet dog in here?!
As far as extended or shortened barrels are concerned, there is an easy fix. Shorten the barrel, decrease the range 25-50%. Increase the barrel length, increase the range 25-50%. Ignore modifications to damage according to barrel length.
*Sniff, Sniff* Why does it smell like wet dog in here?!
Icefalcon wrote:In any book or Rifter article, a small amount of the material would have to include weapon modifications as well.
What kind of modifications?
When I think of modifications I think of perminate changes to the weapon such as: porting (essentially a built in muzzle compensator), drilling and taping to mount scope rings, shortening the barrel or adding a longer one, cutting down or changing the stock/furniture.
Do you mean adding accessories?
Adding accesories means adding analog and electro optics, lasers IR & visble light, tactical lights, foregrips, bayonets, suppressors, etc
Adding acessories seems more likely to effect actual game play (+1 to hit, see in dark through NVGs and so on) then weapon modifications.
Adding modifications. Stuff like adding a longer barrel will increase the range, porting would help increase accuracy, changing from internal magazine to box magazine for extra ammo count, switching out the caliber of the weapon for larger or smaller ammunition, changing the stock (because in my games folding or collapsible stocks subtract one from the strike), custom molded grips (which provide +1 to user made for and -1 to everyone else) and other such things.
Some accessories would be nice as well. I also have house-ruled that scopes and laser sights provide +1 to strike each and that scopes also take away penalties to strike for long ranges.
So adding a fold-able stock to a select fire Glock 18 would make it LESS accurate? Somehow that doesn't sound right.
OK, so pistols would get more accuracy, but I was speaking of rifles. You do not have to intentionally misconstrue my words.
Just wanting clarification.
Norbu the Enchanter: Hello friends! What brings you to my shop today?
Big Joe: We need some things enchanted to take a beating...
Norbu: Perhaps you want your weapons enchanted? Or maybe a shield or sword? I can even enchant armor!
Big Joe: We need you to enchant this Liver, this heart, and these kidneys.