Weapons

You are on your own. The Army is MIA and our government is gone! There are no communications of any kind. Cities and towns have gone dark, and zombies fill the streets. The dead have risen and it would seem to be the end of the world. Help me, Mommy!

Moderators: Immortals, Supreme Beings, Old Ones

User avatar
azazel1024
Champion
Posts: 2550
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:43 am
Comment: So an ogre, an orc and a gnome walk in to a bar...
Location: Columbia, MD

Re: Weapons

Unread post by azazel1024 »

Wooly wrote:
azazel1024 wrote:I think the point is that if PB does another weapons compendium they should consider doing two things.

The first, find a fan or friend who has some actual gun experience (it doesn't even have to be super vast, but one with a resonable background, could even just be simply ex-military).

Next, KISS principal. As you mentioned, there just is not THAT much difference, on a RPG level between one selective fire 5.56mm gun and the next. YES there are differences, but generally not that vast.

It would be much easier to do the book by the following.

Have caliber catagories for range and damage (maybe have a penetration/anti-AR rating as well).

Something like say 5.56mm "short barrel", 5.56mm "long barrel", 7.62x39mm "short barrel", 7.62x39mm "long barrel", etc.

The range, damage and penetration ability is roughly the same in each catagory. Then if you want, have a list for each catagory as well with the basics for the weapon such as weight, typical magazine capacities (or internal capacity for tube/internal box mag weapons) and rough street price and/or Paramilitary purchaser price (IE an MP5 IIRC is roughly $1,200-1,400 new or so direct from H&K for a Law Enforcement Agency or Military buyer, but for general public, if it was manufacturered before the fire arms control act I think runs in the $8,000-10,000 or so price range for an automatic MP5 if you have the correct license to buy it as a civilian). Oh and rate of fire. Maybe a scentence or two if there is anything notable about it.

So for example

5.56mm "Short Barrel"
Damage: 5d6
Range: 200yds, 300yds with scope
Penetration: +2 to penetrate AR

Mini Ruger 14 (Short barrel version)
Weight: 5.5lbs
Magazine capacity: Avaible 5, 10, 15, 20 and 30 round magazines
Rate of fire: Single shot, Semi-automatic
Cost: $800 typical
Notes: A popular short barrelled rifle. Can use both civilian .223 and military 5.56mm ammunition. A variety of accessories are available and comes with fixed stock, collapsable stock or foldable stock options as well as a front and rear pistol grip options.

AR-15 short barrel
Weight: 6-7lbs
Magazine capacity: Available with 10, 15, 20, 30 round magazines
Rate of fire: Single shot, semi-automatic
Cost: $800 typical
Notes: The AR-15 "chasis" is probably one of the most popular rifle "chasis" sold in the US and around the world. There are a variety of different "uppers" and "lowers" allowing users to easily customize their rifle. Everything from shotgun uppers, to a "regular" .223 or 5.56 upper and even .50 caliber uppers are available. The short barreled version of the AR-15 is most similar cosmetically and functionally to the military M-4 Carbine (with the exception of being semi-automatic).

etc, etc, etc

Anyway, just my example, but if I was going to put together a weapons compendium that is how I'd do it. Restating damage every single time is a waste of space. Range on weapons with similar barrel lengths and calibers is going to be pretty similar and I feel like is only worth mentioning standout exceptions (say, with some "sniper" type weapons, and at that typically requires match grade ammo). No my example was not using actual specifics, just off the top of my head/rough numbers. I'd probably only include inked pictures of maybe 1-3 weapon examples in each catagory, or maybe even just a single example for each catagory. I also wouldn't try to be all inclusive. I'd pick a dozen or so of each common pistol/SMG and rifle caliber and at least one weapon for each



1. Clearly define what exactly constitute short barrels, long barrels etc.

2. You need to state what type of magazine the weapon uses. For example the Ruger Mini-14 (Inaccurate, overpriced in my opinion) uses a proprietary magazine. The NATO standard magazine (STANAG) fits many 5.56mm weapons.

3. Explaining the AR-15 to non gun people is going to require a few pages. You can't just say it has different uppers and lower.

4. I would do optics the same way as the guns. Generic with examples. i.e. Red dot sight (eotech or aimpoint comp M2), dual role (Elcan SpecterDR) fixed magnification (Trijicon ACOG) etc

I am interested in collaborating on such a project if you go forward.


Good points. I think, such as with the AR-15, it makes sense though to go with the keep it simple principal. Sure, in some places (like you mentioned with the MR14, accepting propriatary mags only), it makes sense to expand, but with some like the AR-15 it is just too much to expand fully.
User avatar
Icefalcon
Champion
Posts: 1704
Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Weapons

Unread post by Icefalcon »

In any book or Rifter article, a small amount of the material would have to include weapon modifications as well.
*Sniff, Sniff* Why does it smell like wet dog in here?!
User avatar
Rockwolf66
Hero
Posts: 1057
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 12:50 am
Location: GPass area oregon

Re: Weapons

Unread post by Rockwolf66 »

Well Right now I am writing up a list of calibers, the damage they do and an example of a weapon that fires the caliber in question. Hopefully I can get it done sometime soonish.
"Having met a few brits over here i wonder about them. The Military ones I met through my dad as a kid seem to be the most ruthless men on the planet..." -Steve Hobbs
User avatar
dargo83
Dungeon Crawler
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:52 am

Re: Weapons

Unread post by dargo83 »

i will be the first to read and use it in my game
User avatar
Wooly
Adventurer
Posts: 501
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 6:40 pm
Location: Central Kentucky

Re: Weapons

Unread post by Wooly »

Icefalcon wrote:In any book or Rifter article, a small amount of the material would have to include weapon modifications as well.


What kind of modifications?

When I think of modifications I think of perminate changes to the weapon such as: porting (essentially a built in muzzle compensator), drilling and taping to mount scope rings, shortening the barrel or adding a longer one, cutting down or changing the stock/furniture.

Do you mean adding accessories?

Adding accesories means adding analog and electro optics, lasers IR & visble light, tactical lights, foregrips, bayonets, suppressors, etc

Adding acessories seems more likely to effect actual game play (+1 to hit, see in dark through NVGs and so on) then weapon modifications.
“When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” - C.S. Lewis
User avatar
Wooly
Adventurer
Posts: 501
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 6:40 pm
Location: Central Kentucky

Re: Weapons

Unread post by Wooly »

Rockwolf66 wrote:Well Right now I am writing up a list of calibers, the damage they do and an example of a weapon that fires the caliber in question. Hopefully I can get it done sometime soonish.


I hope your damage list will take into account that a longer barrels help to stablize and increase the velocity of a round. 5.56 NATO performs best out of a 20 inch M16A2/A4 barrel.

There is quite a bit to take into consideration beyond the caliber of the weapon.
“When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” - C.S. Lewis
User avatar
Pepsi Jedi
Palladin
Posts: 6955
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:11 am
Comment: 24 was the start... We are Legion.
Location: Northern Gun

Re: Weapons

Unread post by Pepsi Jedi »

I don't really think the zombies care....
Image

Lt. Nyota Uhura: I'm impressed. For a moment there, I thought you were just a dumb hick who only has sex with farm animals.

James Tiberius Kirk: Well, not _only_...
User avatar
Wooly
Adventurer
Posts: 501
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 6:40 pm
Location: Central Kentucky

Re: Weapons

Unread post by Wooly »

Pepsi Jedi wrote:I don't really think the zombies care....


Zombies aren't the only bad guys you might have to use lethal force against. The inhumanity of man is an important element of the zombie genre.
“When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.” - C.S. Lewis
User avatar
Icefalcon
Champion
Posts: 1704
Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Weapons

Unread post by Icefalcon »

Wooly wrote:
Icefalcon wrote:In any book or Rifter article, a small amount of the material would have to include weapon modifications as well.


What kind of modifications?

When I think of modifications I think of perminate changes to the weapon such as: porting (essentially a built in muzzle compensator), drilling and taping to mount scope rings, shortening the barrel or adding a longer one, cutting down or changing the stock/furniture.

Do you mean adding accessories?

Adding accesories means adding analog and electro optics, lasers IR & visble light, tactical lights, foregrips, bayonets, suppressors, etc

Adding acessories seems more likely to effect actual game play (+1 to hit, see in dark through NVGs and so on) then weapon modifications.


Adding modifications. Stuff like adding a longer barrel will increase the range, porting would help increase accuracy, changing from internal magazine to box magazine for extra ammo count, switching out the caliber of the weapon for larger or smaller ammunition, changing the stock (because in my games folding or collapsible stocks subtract one from the strike), custom molded grips (which provide +1 to user made for and -1 to everyone else) and other such things.

Some accessories would be nice as well. I also have house-ruled that scopes and laser sights provide +1 to strike each and that scopes also take away penalties to strike for long ranges.
*Sniff, Sniff* Why does it smell like wet dog in here?!
User avatar
Icefalcon
Champion
Posts: 1704
Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Weapons

Unread post by Icefalcon »

Wooly wrote:
Rockwolf66 wrote:Well Right now I am writing up a list of calibers, the damage they do and an example of a weapon that fires the caliber in question. Hopefully I can get it done sometime soonish.


I hope your damage list will take into account that a longer barrels help to stablize and increase the velocity of a round. 5.56 NATO performs best out of a 20 inch M16A2/A4 barrel.

There is quite a bit to take into consideration beyond the caliber of the weapon.


You don't want to overburden weapons with too many more rules than already exist. There has to be a balance between game and reality.
*Sniff, Sniff* Why does it smell like wet dog in here?!
User avatar
Colt47
Champion
Posts: 2141
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:39 am
Comment: Keeper of the Pies
Location: In Russia with Love

Re: Weapons

Unread post by Colt47 »

Icefalcon wrote:
Wooly wrote:
Icefalcon wrote:In any book or Rifter article, a small amount of the material would have to include weapon modifications as well.


What kind of modifications?

When I think of modifications I think of perminate changes to the weapon such as: porting (essentially a built in muzzle compensator), drilling and taping to mount scope rings, shortening the barrel or adding a longer one, cutting down or changing the stock/furniture.

Do you mean adding accessories?

Adding accesories means adding analog and electro optics, lasers IR & visble light, tactical lights, foregrips, bayonets, suppressors, etc

Adding acessories seems more likely to effect actual game play (+1 to hit, see in dark through NVGs and so on) then weapon modifications.


Adding modifications. Stuff like adding a longer barrel will increase the range, porting would help increase accuracy, changing from internal magazine to box magazine for extra ammo count, switching out the caliber of the weapon for larger or smaller ammunition, changing the stock (because in my games folding or collapsible stocks subtract one from the strike), custom molded grips (which provide +1 to user made for and -1 to everyone else) and other such things.

Some accessories would be nice as well. I also have house-ruled that scopes and laser sights provide +1 to strike each and that scopes also take away penalties to strike for long ranges.


So adding a fold-able stock to a select fire Glock 18 would make it LESS accurate? Somehow that doesn't sound right.
Norbu the Enchanter: Hello friends! What brings you to my shop today?

Big Joe: We need some things enchanted to take a beating...

Norbu: Perhaps you want your weapons enchanted? Or maybe a shield or sword? I can even enchant armor!

Big Joe: We need you to enchant this Liver, this heart, and these kidneys.

Norbu: :shock:
User avatar
Pepsi Jedi
Palladin
Posts: 6955
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:11 am
Comment: 24 was the start... We are Legion.
Location: Northern Gun

Re: Weapons

Unread post by Pepsi Jedi »

Wooly wrote:
Pepsi Jedi wrote:I don't really think the zombies care....


Zombies aren't the only bad guys you might have to use lethal force against. The inhumanity of man is an important element of the zombie genre.


I don't think the bad guys really care about the 20 inch barrel either. If you're going THAT SPECIFIC into the game and will give different stats for 20 or 18 inch barrels ect, then eachh gun will have like 5 or 6 different things on it to get your damage calculation.

A bit too detailed and nitpicky for 'fun'. You're talking of thousands and thousands of possible combinations.
Image

Lt. Nyota Uhura: I'm impressed. For a moment there, I thought you were just a dumb hick who only has sex with farm animals.

James Tiberius Kirk: Well, not _only_...
User avatar
azazel1024
Champion
Posts: 2550
Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:43 am
Comment: So an ogre, an orc and a gnome walk in to a bar...
Location: Columbia, MD

Re: Weapons

Unread post by azazel1024 »

I like going back to my idea of, general set damages and ranges for the same caliber, but maybe going to the level of distinction of "short barrel" and "long barrel" distinguishing. Heck you can even put in the text how each is defined. No point in going to the level of the differences in a 12 inch barrel 5.56 loaded with standard pressure rounds versus a 15 inch barrel 5.56 loaded with +P rounds versus a 20 inch barrel loaded with low drag 5.56 rounds.
User avatar
Icefalcon
Champion
Posts: 1704
Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Weapons

Unread post by Icefalcon »

Colt47 wrote:
Icefalcon wrote:
Wooly wrote:
Icefalcon wrote:In any book or Rifter article, a small amount of the material would have to include weapon modifications as well.


What kind of modifications?

When I think of modifications I think of perminate changes to the weapon such as: porting (essentially a built in muzzle compensator), drilling and taping to mount scope rings, shortening the barrel or adding a longer one, cutting down or changing the stock/furniture.

Do you mean adding accessories?

Adding accesories means adding analog and electro optics, lasers IR & visble light, tactical lights, foregrips, bayonets, suppressors, etc

Adding acessories seems more likely to effect actual game play (+1 to hit, see in dark through NVGs and so on) then weapon modifications.


Adding modifications. Stuff like adding a longer barrel will increase the range, porting would help increase accuracy, changing from internal magazine to box magazine for extra ammo count, switching out the caliber of the weapon for larger or smaller ammunition, changing the stock (because in my games folding or collapsible stocks subtract one from the strike), custom molded grips (which provide +1 to user made for and -1 to everyone else) and other such things.

Some accessories would be nice as well. I also have house-ruled that scopes and laser sights provide +1 to strike each and that scopes also take away penalties to strike for long ranges.


So adding a fold-able stock to a select fire Glock 18 would make it LESS accurate? Somehow that doesn't sound right.


OK, so pistols would get more accuracy, but I was speaking of rifles. You do not have to intentionally misconstrue my words.
*Sniff, Sniff* Why does it smell like wet dog in here?!
User avatar
Icefalcon
Champion
Posts: 1704
Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Weapons

Unread post by Icefalcon »

As far as extended or shortened barrels are concerned, there is an easy fix. Shorten the barrel, decrease the range 25-50%. Increase the barrel length, increase the range 25-50%. Ignore modifications to damage according to barrel length.
*Sniff, Sniff* Why does it smell like wet dog in here?!
User avatar
Colt47
Champion
Posts: 2141
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:39 am
Comment: Keeper of the Pies
Location: In Russia with Love

Re: Weapons

Unread post by Colt47 »

Icefalcon wrote:
Colt47 wrote:
Icefalcon wrote:
Wooly wrote:
Icefalcon wrote:In any book or Rifter article, a small amount of the material would have to include weapon modifications as well.


What kind of modifications?

When I think of modifications I think of perminate changes to the weapon such as: porting (essentially a built in muzzle compensator), drilling and taping to mount scope rings, shortening the barrel or adding a longer one, cutting down or changing the stock/furniture.

Do you mean adding accessories?

Adding accesories means adding analog and electro optics, lasers IR & visble light, tactical lights, foregrips, bayonets, suppressors, etc

Adding acessories seems more likely to effect actual game play (+1 to hit, see in dark through NVGs and so on) then weapon modifications.


Adding modifications. Stuff like adding a longer barrel will increase the range, porting would help increase accuracy, changing from internal magazine to box magazine for extra ammo count, switching out the caliber of the weapon for larger or smaller ammunition, changing the stock (because in my games folding or collapsible stocks subtract one from the strike), custom molded grips (which provide +1 to user made for and -1 to everyone else) and other such things.

Some accessories would be nice as well. I also have house-ruled that scopes and laser sights provide +1 to strike each and that scopes also take away penalties to strike for long ranges.


So adding a fold-able stock to a select fire Glock 18 would make it LESS accurate? Somehow that doesn't sound right.


OK, so pistols would get more accuracy, but I was speaking of rifles. You do not have to intentionally misconstrue my words.


Just wanting clarification. :)
Norbu the Enchanter: Hello friends! What brings you to my shop today?

Big Joe: We need some things enchanted to take a beating...

Norbu: Perhaps you want your weapons enchanted? Or maybe a shield or sword? I can even enchant armor!

Big Joe: We need you to enchant this Liver, this heart, and these kidneys.

Norbu: :shock:
User avatar
Icefalcon
Champion
Posts: 1704
Joined: Tue May 08, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: Weapons

Unread post by Icefalcon »

Sorry, got a little defensive there. :D
*Sniff, Sniff* Why does it smell like wet dog in here?!
Post Reply

Return to “Dead Reign™”