Why Motorocyles?

[Torval]

I originally posted this on my facebook page to see if I could get some responses from people on there but decided to try it here as well.

Can someone explain to me why people seem to think that a motorcycle/dirt bike is the go to vehicle in the zombie apocalypse? I can understand the increased mobility and high fuel efficiency but that is where it stops with me. You are not protected from the elements - you are not protected from anything really. If you have an accident on a motorcycle, it is far more likely to be fatal than in a traditional vehicle, especially since you will almost certainly not be able to seek proper medical attention. It neither affords you the extra space for multiple people(more than 2) nor does it have gratuitous space to store your survival items. They are ridiculously loud when compared to your average vehicle. I'm sure I could continue to go on but I'm going to stop there. So, can anyone point out to me why so many people think a motorcycle is such a great idea in the zombie apocalypse?

Please feel free to point out anything that I may have missed as a pro or con for this topic. Obviously, this forum is dedicated to Dead Reign and not just the zombie apocalypse in general and as such, if you can make any arguments that are more specific to the Dead Reign setting as well, please do so.

[azazel1024]

Well muffled dirt bike (which is damned rare I'll admit) is not much louder than your average passenger car. It can get pretty decent milage and is an off roading beast in comparison. Sure you can't carry a whole lot of supplies, but a lot more than you can on foot with decent saddle bags on it.

For a hog, your milage is generally less than a small sedan...so that wouldn't be of an advantage there.

You have the downside on any bike of severly limited range. IIRC most hog tanks are roughly 5-6 gallons at around 25-35mpg depending on the kind of driving you are doing in it. That isn't very far compared to the average compact/small car that gets roughly 28-40mpg depending on the kind of driving you are doing and has an 11-16 gallon tank.

Most sports bikes and dirt bikes only typically get up around 45mpg or so and tend to only have around 4 gallon fuel tanks. There are a few sports bikes, especially the ones with the "little" motors that claim/get much better milage. Still you are talking maybe 60mpg with a 4 gallon tank (as a reference honda claims an amazing 70+mpg for the CBR250r, which I frankly find hard to believe unless cruising at very modest speeds...but only has a 3.7g fuel tank...which is still maybe only 250 miles or so of range. I have a 14.5 gallon tank in my Mazda 3 and I can easily manage 45mpg cruising at 60mph on the highway, a little better if I were to slow it down to 50mph, and my 20/80 city/highway typical driving I get 39-40mpg in the summer...so that is around 600-700 miles on a tank).

[azazel1024]

To expand, if I could, I'd find a motor bike with a decent 250 in it that was well muffled from the factory and/or upgrade it. Get some nice 1,500ci hard case saddlebags with a luggage rack system on the back. Strap my 4000ci backpacking pack to that and strap another couple of smaller soft bags (maybe 1,000-1,500ci duffles or similar) next to/on to the hard cases. Probably top it off with a 2 or 2.5 gallon gas can.

If I could manage find a front fork luggage system to strap another couple of small soft cover bags in the 1,000-1,500ci range up front. Keep the weight on the light side, but should be able to get away with a pretty good load, maybe 150lbs or so of stuff between everything if it is well distributed. Anything fragile in the hard cases so when I drop the bike (not if) it'll be sort of protected.

Could easily carry a weeks supply of food and water, plus backpacking/camping gear on that, a couple of firearms with plenty of ammo, some spare gas, a few changes of clothes for different weather, extra boots, a few books and maybe a few choice "valuables" like binoculars, a good first aid kit (or three) and similar for personal use/barter.

Still pretty unprotected, but if you keep the roaming slow and occasional you'd probably be pretty set so long as you don't get surrounded by a big hoarde or run up against bandits (or at least a bunch of them).

[Rockwolf66]

Personally I prefer to do my zombie hunting by ATV as while it's not so great in the city in the country I can take more stuff than on a motorcycle and if need be carry wounded survivors back to basecamp.

[Neo]

I second that, Quads/ATVs are the way to go. There are even side by side models which can give you a co-pilot/gunner.

[G]

I dislike motorcycles as well. In an environment where there is likely combat in every day of play, you need protection and/or silence. Gas mileage isn't that important as everyone is undead and not using gasoline, what is left should last a while for the few that are left. Silence allows you to not summon a horde of slouchers.

What happens the first time someone on a motorcycle gets wounded? They can't ride it anymore. You need vehicles that hold several people, as people are wounded in every game. They might not be well enough to double on another persons cycle.

[Torval]

I think you kind of too quickly, maybe, bypassed the increased mobility and high fuel efficiency part. Main roads would likely be clogged and impassible by car. Even if you had something huge like an Excursion or a Hummer, it would be too dense to even attempt to break thru. Certainly, there will be stretches of road that are not like this, but in and around major cities, I'd imagine it will be pretty chaotic. Inversely, the traffic jam would likely only be on the side of the road that is exiting the area, as there would be a mass exodus. So if you could just go the 'wrong' way, you might be alright.

Even so, as time passes, groups (raiders, etc.) will probably be watching certain parts of the road, set up nice pieces of glass and metal to flatten passing cars' tires, etc. So while a car or truck certainly gives you more protection while inside of it, it also critically limits your ability to find an alternate path. A motorcycle could (depending on make and tires) be taken into the woods, on bicycle trails, hiking trails, ridden up the shoulder of roads, or on the median area of a highway (grass or dirt separating one side from another).

MPG's are huge too, since you 1) won't WANT to stop frequently and 2) might not be able to find a place with gas, or that is safe to get gas.

The downsides though, are lack of cover/protection, and you can only have so much gear with you, or one companion. Just like when deciding what gear goes in your Bug Out Bag or something similar, you have to decide what is most important to you. It's not always going to be perfect!

I wasn't trying to slight the mobility and MPG capabilities of motorcycles in any way. In fact, those are really the only two major benefits that I can see to riding a motorcycle during the zombie apocalypse. I just do not think those two benefits outweigh the negatives that come with this particular choice of vehicles in a world overrun by Zed.

In my mind, I would be traveling as little as possible during the zombie apocalypse anyways. I do understand that staying on the move constantly could be a viable survival practice but it is not one that I would want to put into action. At least, not constant enough movement to warrant me taking a motorcycle for its two main benefits over a vehicle which can actually afford to offer me some extra protection and passenger/cargo space.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that everyone has to decide what is most important to them and go with whatever tactics, gear, vehicles, etc will fit into that mindset. Unfortunately, there is no perfect solution that is readily available to the majority of the civilian population, myself included.

[Torval]

Well muffled dirt bike (which is damned rare I'll admit) is not much louder than your average passenger car. It can get pretty decent milage and is an off roading beast in comparison. Sure you can't carry a whole lot of supplies, but a lot more than you can on foot with decent saddle bags on it.

For a hog, your milage is generally less than a small sedan...so that wouldn't be of an advantage there.

You have the downside on any bike of severly limited range. IIRC most hog tanks are roughly 5-6 gallons at around 25-35mpg depending on the kind of driving you are doing in it. That isn't very far compared to the average compact/small car that gets roughly 28-40mpg depending on the kind of driving you are doing and has an 11-16 gallon tank.

Most sports bikes and dirt bikes only typically get up around 45mpg or so and tend to only have around 4 gallon fuel tanks. There are a few sports bikes, especially the ones with the "little" motors that claim/get much better milage. Still you are talking maybe 60mpg with a 4 gallon tank (as a reference honda claims an amazing 70+mpg for the CBR250r, which I frankly find hard to believe unless cruising at very modest speeds...but only has a 3.7g fuel tank...which is still maybe only 250 miles or so of range. I have a 14.5 gallon tank in my Mazda 3 and I can easily manage 45mpg cruising at 60mph on the highway, a little better if I were to slow it down to 50mph, and my 20/80 city/highway typical driving I get 39-40mpg in the summer...so that is around 600-700 miles on a tank).

One of the responses that I received on my facebook page was from a friend of mine who owns a motorcycle as their main method of transportation. His thoughts were in line with yours about the mpg and limited range of motorcycles due to their reduced size gas tanks.

I have never heard of a muffled dirt bike or motorcycle. I guess you've given me something to look up and learn about. Thanks!

[Torval]

Personally I prefer to do my zombie hunting by ATV as while it's not so great in the city in the country I can take more stuff than on a motorcycle and if need be carry wounded survivors back to basecamp.

I second that, Quads/ATVs are the way to go. There are even side by side models which can give you a co-pilot/gunner.

I really like ATVs as well and the idea of using an ATV to get around rough terrain while also hauling a decent amount of gear is definitely a good one; however, I think it still falls victim to the same problems that the motorcycles have. My big concerns here would be protection, sound and gas mileage. In my experience, most ATVs can only go about 60 miles before their gas tanks are bone dry.

[Torval]

I dislike motorcycles as well. In an environment where there is likely combat in every day of play, you need protection and/or silence. Gas mileage isn't that important as everyone is undead and not using gasoline, what is left should last a while for the few that are left. Silence allows you to not summon a horde of slouchers.

What happens the first time someone on a motorcycle gets wounded? They can't ride it anymore. You need vehicles that hold several people, as people are wounded in every game. They might not be well enough to double on another persons cycle.

Ideally, protection and silence would be your golden ticket; however, I think that may be hard to accomplish in most situations. I understand your reasoning that MPG may not be as important as we think but I do feel it is still important. The less often you have to scavenge for supplies the better off you will be. Gasoline may be abundant enough to scavenge if you stay close to highways, cities and suburbs but then that also puts you in more immediate danger than bugging out to a location that was less populated, pre Z-Day. I don't know about you but personally, I don't want to leave my rear hanging out in the wind as I try to syphon gas from vehicles any more than is necessary.

I do like the point you bring up about wounded people and needing a vehicle that could accommodate them. I hadn't actually thought about how to haul someone who is wounded around.

[azazel1024]

Actually what I would want is one of the special forces dune buggies. The ones where it is front/rear seats with full protection roll cage that can easily be turned in to a full cage to keep zombies out. Those things are off roading beasts, fairly small and I'd imagine can probably get pretty decent milage.

[Torval]

Actually what I would want is one of the special forces dune buggies. The ones where it is front/rear seats with full protection roll cage that can easily be turned in to a full cage to keep zombies out. Those things are off roading beasts, fairly small and I'd imagine can probably get pretty decent milage.

Do you mind providing a link? I'm interested.

[azazel1024]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_Patrol_Vehicle

Desert Patrol Vehicles. As it turns out their fuel milage is atrocious! 10mpg. However, I'd bet you could swap engines and transmissions in the thing for much better milage.

[G]

Your main enemies are zombies and humans (not necessarily in that order). If neither knows you are there then you have fewer problems.

[Rockwolf66]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_Patrol_Vehicle

Desert Patrol Vehicles. As it turns out their fuel milage is atrocious! 10mpg. However, I'd bet you could swap engines and transmissions in the thing for much better milage.

Yeah the DPV looks cool but I much prefer the M1165A1 Special Ops if I'm running a Milliraty vehicle because the parts are easier to find. Plus you have a really potent combination of Mobility and Firepower. Ma Duce for the win. Heck it's not like you are going to find an ASP 30mm anytime soon although since it uses chaingun ammo it's almost as easy to feed.

[Beatmeclever]

Gas mileage isn't that important as everyone is undead and not using gasoline, what is left should last a while for the few that are left.

Gasoline goes stale. The lifespan of the world's petrol resources are limited. If the Zed Apocalypse doesn't end before the gas goes stale, EVERYONE will be pedaling away from the hordes.

For other comments out there:
Harley-Davidsons are loud by design. I ride a Honda that used to be too quiet. I had to put an after-market exhaust on to make it louder (loud bikes save lives). However, in the ZA, you'd want to make them quiet again. That's cruisers. Sportbikes are A LOT more quiet than cruisers, but with the inevitable deterioration of the roads, dual class motorcycles would beat out any of the others (you might think dirt bike, but those REALLY suck for distance).

The use of off road motorcycles greatly increased mobility when operating in rugged terrain. The motorcycles gave us the ability to conduct long-range reconnaissance or position personnel in terrain that was inaccessible to GMV’s. (Ground Military Vehicles) We found that the motorcycles could even

Check this for a bit more about tactical use of motorcycles.

Personally, I'd go with the M1165A1, but I'd carry a couple of duals for outriding, scouting, and scrounging. Even with all those, however, I'd be searching for the fortification site from which to make a "permanent" base of ops - like the missile silos from an earlier thread.

[Rockwolf66]

Gas mileage isn't that important as everyone is undead and not using gasoline, what is left should last a while for the few that are left.

Gasoline goes stale. The lifespan of the world's petrol resources are limited. If the Zed Apocalypse doesn't end before the gas goes stale, EVERYONE will be pedaling away from the hordes.

For other comments out there:
Harley-Davidsons are loud by design. I ride a Honda that used to be too quiet. I had to put an after-market exhaust on to make it louder (loud bikes save lives). However, in the ZA, you'd want to make them quiet again. That's cruisers. Sportbikes are A LOT more quiet than cruisers, but with the inevitable deterioration of the roads, dual class motorcycles would beat out any of the others (you might think dirt bike, but those REALLY suck for distance).

The use of off road motorcycles greatly increased mobility when operating in rugged terrain. The motorcycles gave us the ability to conduct long-range reconnaissance or position personnel in terrain that was inaccessible to GMV’s. (Ground Military Vehicles) We found that the motorcycles could even

Check this for a bit more about tactical use of motorcycles.

Personally, I'd go with the M1165A1, but I'd carry a couple of duals for outriding, scouting, and scrounging. Even with all those, however, I'd be searching for the fortification site from which to make a "permanent" base of ops - like the missile silos from an earlier thread.

So basically you would form an improvived Mobility troop with Motorcycles screening, Guntrucks for transportation and protecting and a few support vehicles in the middle. I like it.

[Torval]

Gas mileage isn't that important as everyone is undead and not using gasoline, what is left should last a while for the few that are left.

Gasoline goes stale. The lifespan of the world's petrol resources are limited. If the Zed Apocalypse doesn't end before the gas goes stale, EVERYONE will be pedaling away from the hordes.

For other comments out there:
Harley-Davidsons are loud by design. I ride a Honda that used to be too quiet. I had to put an after-market exhaust on to make it louder (loud bikes save lives). However, in the ZA, you'd want to make them quiet again. That's cruisers. Sportbikes are A LOT more quiet than cruisers, but with the inevitable deterioration of the roads, dual class motorcycles would beat out any of the others (you might think dirt bike, but those REALLY suck for distance).

The use of off road motorcycles greatly increased mobility when operating in rugged terrain. The motorcycles gave us the ability to conduct long-range reconnaissance or position personnel in terrain that was inaccessible to GMV’s. (Ground Military Vehicles) We found that the motorcycles could even

Check this for a bit more about tactical use of motorcycles.

Personally, I'd go with the M1165A1, but I'd carry a couple of duals for outriding, scouting, and scrounging. Even with all those, however, I'd be searching for the fortification site from which to make a "permanent" base of ops - like the missile silos from an earlier thread.

I found the article you linked to be interesting. It does give me a little more insight into a tactical application for a motorcycle; however, I still don't think I would want one as my primary vehicle in the zombie apocalypse. I just would not feel well enough protected.

I'm not sure I've ever paid attention enough to notice that a "sportbike" is significantly more quiet. I guess I'll have to try to pay attention this spring as I've already seen plenty of bikes out and around. Even so, are they quieter than your average gasoline powered vehicle?

Edit: Typo

[Torval]

So basically you would form an improvived Mobility troop with Motorcycles screening, Guntrucks for transportation and protecting and a few support vehicles in the middle. I like it.

I have to admit that I like that plan also but what are the chances of being with that many survivors and also everyone having the proper skill sets to perform in their designated roles?

[azazel1024]

Sports bikes are a lot quieter and keep in mind too, that 90% of the ones on the road have aftermarket, and louder, exhausts on them to top it off. Even then, if you are driving them reasonably they aren't much louder than a car. Wind it up and go though and they are pretty loud.

A perk of diesel powered (and there are diesel powered bikes, especially military bikes) is that with presevatives I believe it is stable longer, you can use kerosene as a replacement for diesel and it isn't all that hard to make biodiesel or failing that convert and use veggie oil or any number of other liquid plant based oils in the gas tank.

Biogasoline is effectively impossible to produce with the resources you'd have in a zombie world, petroleum based gasoline would be just as hard without massive resources (at least an oil well and some basic refining capacity, which granted for low volumes doesn't take a massive refiner, but is not a backyard operation either, it would probably take the resources of a few hundred to a couple of thousand survivor community to operate even a very small scale oil pumping and refining capacity...though they'd be pretty self sufficient at that point for energy needs). You could do ethanol, but it is not a super easy conversion to run on pure ethanol (Flexfuel vehicles cannot run on E100, E85 MAX) and refining pure ethanol is also extremely difficult. Basic still operation generally can't get better than about 95% pure ethanol...which could run something, but eventually it is going to destroy the engine.

[Torval]

Just a thought I had as I was reading back over this thread. I do not work on vehicles of any sort so I apologize if this is a stupid question.

Are modern motorcycles easier to work on than a modern passenger car or truck? I would assume that they have far less electronic systems on board but I could be wrong. If they are easier to work on, I suppose that could be another benefit in their favor.

[azazel1024]

Yes and no. Generally easier to access bits on a motorcycle and the engine/parts are a lot lighter, so, especially if you are resonably strong/fit, you don't need a lift or anything else to remove the engine to work on or anything like that. However, the tolerances tend to be tighter in most motorcycle engines, especially sports bikes. They tend not to be the kind of "bullet proof" engines you find on some passenger vehicles. Of course plenty of passenger vehicle engines are pretty fragile as well as it were.

One downside is that motorcycle drive trains are super fragile. It is not that hard to break a chain, and that is not something you can simply fix and takes fairly specialist tools to replace/remove links in a motorcycle bike chain. You could use another motorcycles chain, but unless it was the exact chain your bike uses, you will need to resize it (assuming that the link size is right, and it is just the chain length that is wrong).

You also have the disadvantage with a bike that you have pretty limited cargo capacity. So at best you might be able to carry a basic tool kit with maybe a few extra quarts of oil and a filter for a little maintenance or very, very basic repairs. A normal small sedan I could fit an extensive tool kit, small oxy-acetelyne torch and a number of common maintenance and repair parts (couple of extra half shafts, some sheet metal for welding repairs, some new brake lines, brake fluid, some extra struts and spring, wheel bearings, brake pads, disks, tiny hydraulic press, large tool kit, hydraulic jack, an extra full sized tire/wheel in the trunk and/or a couple strapped to the roof/trunk lid etc, etc) in the trunk and still have the back seats for tons of storage.

[GrampaAllen]

If you go with light bikes or possibly even mopeds it works out, in your favor fast easily maneuverable the bigger the bike the less the payoff.
Personally I prefer a stripped down quad or dune rail but having grown up on a dirt bike, and watched the Baltimore boys ditch the cops on dirt bikes, they have an edge in maneuverability and go anywhere.

[MaxxSterling]

I hate to rain on the parade, but if you rode a bike in this type of scenario, you would die long before fuel or finding alternate routes ever became an issue.

[Torval]

I hate to rain on the parade, but if you rode a bike in this type of scenario, you would die long before fuel or finding alternate routes ever became an issue.

Care to elaborate a little bit?

[Razzinold]

A lot of people do appear to favour motorcycles, what I'd like to know is how many people actually know how to ride one ? or ride one well for those out there that are casual riders ? Another thing to remember, motorcycles (unless a larger make like the Goldwings) are uncomfortable on long rides, and growing up riding dirtbikes it's not so easy to ride off road, also it's tiring on your muscles. I remember coming home sore after riding trails for an afternoons, you need to be in good shape to handle your bike off road. That being said I do like bikes and probably would carry one in the back of a pickup truck or something so I could use it to scout an area, get in and out quick and back to the truck where your friends are waiting. I'm sure you could rig up some kind of muffler system for a bike to keep it quieter. Like someone else said, go with a 250 (or any bike with a 4 stroke instead of a 2 stroke) they may not be as responsive but they are a little quieter. My buddy had a 4 stroke 250 (can't remember the make) and I had a Yamah IT125 my bike was quicker off the line (lighter bike, was a two stroke) but my bike was louder, it had that whine to the engine (stock exhaust no mods done) where his was lower and more guttural sounding.

[Torval]

Personally, I would be staying away from riding a motorcycle as much as possible. I don't have any experience riding one and I don't think the ZA would be the best time to try to learn. Perhaps if I was in some sort of safe haven I may try to learn but the odds are slim. For me personally, I think the negative aspects outweigh the benefits.

As for the noise issue, I have been around several bikes already this year since the weather started getting nice here. Some were much more quiet than others (sport bikes vs harley) but I still think they are all too loud. The only thing I've come across recently that wasn't ridiculously loud in comparison to an average passenger vehicle was the one moped I saw zipping around but I just can't imagine myself trying to survive the ZA with a moped.

[GrampaAllen]

Actually a little 50cc moped is a pretty optimal survival vehicle.

From experience you can even buzz around in a warehouse or department store scale building.
Add in the insane gas milage and something that you can manhandle up and down stairs it would be a fairly good choice for a Shepard, or Scavenger.

Most are gonna need some off road tires, but those simple engines are solid as the day is long.

[azazel1024]

Riding horses is as bad or worse than riding motorcycles (well, off road motorcycles) off road let alone on a paved road.

Just thought I'd share.

It does take a lot of work and you need to be in some kind of shape. At the same time, I'd assume you normally weren't roaming more than a few dozen miles per day which would keep both fuel use and fatigue at a relative minimum. Hopefully most of that would be on paved roads, or at least roads even if not paved.

[Ravenwing]

Actually in a game we're getting ready for, set just before the wave, my GM allowed me to take a 95' chevy Astro AWD van. thinking about it that seems the way to go. all the benefits of a van, in a smaller package with off road capabilities.

[kaneman19]

ummm did evryone forget about the oldiest off road vehical in the world the jeep they are failrly small hold enugh room for your gear and can go evry where. not to mention they are one of the easiest vehicals to rebuild and fix. also they are just cool.

[Razzinold]

ummm did evryone forget about the oldiest off road vehical in the world the jeep they are failrly small hold enugh room for your gear and can go evry where. not to mention they are one of the easiest vehicals to rebuild and fix. also they are just cool.

Seconded , Jeeps are cool
although I'm pretty sure nobody wants to adopt the "roof off, doors off" look that makes them even cooler during the zombie apocalypse, lol

But roof and doors intact, Jeeps are still pretty sweet

[Torval]

ummm did evryone forget about the oldiest off road vehical in the world the jeep they are failrly small hold enugh room for your gear and can go evry where. not to mention they are one of the easiest vehicals to rebuild and fix. also they are just cool.

Truth be told, my father is a GM mechanic so all I've owned my whole life are Gm vehicles. Since he didn't want me to grow up to also be a grease monkey, I was never taught how to work on cars other than to help him by handing him the tools and such. I only know how to do very basic stuff like oil changes and tire rotations.

It doesn't matter how simple it is to fix because I, more than likely, won't be able to do it. I do have to admit that I hadn't considered a jeep. How is the gas mileage on one?

The more I think about it, the more I think I would want something with a diesel engine. Aside from military vehicles, can you find a jeep with a diesel engine that wasn't custom built by someone?

[azazel1024]

Terrible. They are also massively underpowered. At least if we are talking about an actual JEEP, Ala WWII through Vietnam. If we are talking a Jeep Wrangler, what you find made in the last about 30 years from the American car company...not as massively underpowered, but still poor milage, but maybe better off roading with a little tweaking.

A big perk of the early JEEPs is that they were light. Like 1500lbs or so IIRC. 4 strong guys could lift one and move it if they needed to, say if it got stuck or if there was an obstacle that it couldn't tackle. The transmision was fairly robust as was the engine, but it only produced about 50hp for the engine and milage was bad (I don't have any real figures in front of me, but I think the original JEEPs were in the teens for milage). They did not have much space, some of the larger multirider ATVs you find have more person/cargo space than an old Jeep does and probably have better off road capability and maybe even better milage.

[Colt47]

Terrible. They are also massively underpowered. At least if we are talking about an actual JEEP, Ala WWII through Vietnam. If we are talking a Jeep Wrangler, what you find made in the last about 30 years from the American car company...not as massively underpowered, but still poor milage, but maybe better off roading with a little tweaking.

A big perk of the early JEEPs is that they were light. Like 1500lbs or so IIRC. 4 strong guys could lift one and move it if they needed to, say if it got stuck or if there was an obstacle that it couldn't tackle. The transmision was fairly robust as was the engine, but it only produced about 50hp for the engine and milage was bad (I don't have any real figures in front of me, but I think the original JEEPs were in the teens for milage). They did not have much space, some of the larger multirider ATVs you find have more person/cargo space than an old Jeep does and probably have better off road capability and maybe even better milage.

Err, I've seen some ATV's with 20 miles per gallon when ridden at 30-40 mph. The most economical vehicle I can think of is probably an electric mountain bike, since you can switch to an engine that can keep the vehicle going at 20 mph for a bit on electricity and if you run out of juice you can still pedal. Most are light enough to carry and are relatively easy to fix.

It sounds kind of silly, but I could easily see a few survivors on Electric mountain bikes getting around a ruined city fairly quickly. Also, combined with a Solar recharging kit, it's possible to get the electric batteries a quarter to half charged.

[Ravenwing]

Terrible. They are also massively underpowered. At least if we are talking about an actual JEEP, Ala WWII through Vietnam. If we are talking a Jeep Wrangler, what you find made in the last about 30 years from the American car company...not as massively underpowered, but still poor milage, but maybe better off roading with a little tweaking.

A big perk of the early JEEPs is that they were light. Like 1500lbs or so IIRC. 4 strong guys could lift one and move it if they needed to, say if it got stuck or if there was an obstacle that it couldn't tackle. The transmision was fairly robust as was the engine, but it only produced about 50hp for the engine and milage was bad (I don't have any real figures in front of me, but I think the original JEEPs were in the teens for milage). They did not have much space, some of the larger multirider ATVs you find have more person/cargo space than an old Jeep does and probably have better off road capability and maybe even better milage.

Respectfully I must disagree.

The original Jeeps have plenty of room for supplies, and with just a few simple modifications, you won't find a better off road vehicle. I have a 71' Jeep CJ5(Whats called the Wrangler now a days since Dailmar-Chrysler(Sp?) bought Jeep-Willys(SP?)) that can climb nearly anything. With the Back seats folded, you can easily store twice what you can in a car, and easily several times over what you could on a ATV.

Gas millage isn't good, but it isn't horrible either, at least not for the power that it has.

See the thing is, you probably wont find an original CJ5 Jeep in this country. The first thing guys do when they get them is switch out the rear/front ends, transfer cases, transmissions and engines, and if you build it right the damn things can nearly climb a vertical surface, I've read about jeeps climbing some seriously insane grades of inclines.

Now as to what they switch all this stuff to depends. If your a GM guy, you put a Chevy 350 in it. Dodge guys like to toss in 318's and 360's although a buddy of mine gutted a 'Cuda and dropped a 426 Hemi in his Jeep(With alot of cutting/wielding and grunt work). Ford guys like me like either the 302, or the 351(Which mine has). Gas mileage is in the neighborhood of 23 mpg highway or so, but that has more to do with the rear end then the motor.

[azazel1024]

That is not an original JEEP, as in a Jeep-Willys. It is quite a lot larger with a much more powerful engine. The original military JEEPs introduced in WWII were very small. They had enough setting room for 4 cramped, or 5 with one basically sitting on someone's lap. Sure its more than a motorcycle can carry, but I've seen plenty of ATVs either with setting for 4 or 2+bed that have as much or more cargo space and better milage.

The Willy's MB JEEP had a wheel base of 80 inches, overall length of 131in, 62in width and weighed 2,300lbs (okay, I was pretty far off on that). It had a 60hp 4cyl engine, 3+1 manual speed transmission and 2-spd transfer case as well as 4WD. I haven't seen firm milage numbers for the original Willy's MB JEEP, but numbers from 12-14 and occasionally up to 16 are what is thrown around.

For a CJ5, you get 81 or 83.5in wheel base, 138.2in overall length, 68.5in width and almost 2,700lb curb weight. The engine produce around 155hp for the V6 (AFAIK), had a 3 or 4spd manual (not sure exactly when there was a switch over or if it was an option between the two) and it seems like mileage was a little closer to 20mpg. Having been in a '73 CJ5 that a friend owned and a WWII Willy's MB JEEP, the CJ5 seemed immensely larger, much more than the few extra inches seem to imply.

Then compare that to a modern Wrangler which is a heck of a lot bigger than the original or a CJ5...and you go from having to squeeze things in, to being a practical palace.

I am not trying to say a jeep has no room, it can have plenty, but if you are lookin strictly at a wartime era JEEP, they were really small. You'd be better off with pretty much any semi-modern small SUV or pickup with a good 4WD system on it. Compared to a CJ5 or better yet modern Wrangler...well no that is probably as good as it gets unless you need lots of people/hauling space and a modern small SUV/pickup would be massively inferior.

[Ravenwing]

That is not an original JEEP, as in a Jeep-Willys. It is quite a lot larger with a much more powerful engine. The original military JEEPs introduced in WWII were very small. They had enough setting room for 4 cramped, or 5 with one basically sitting on someone's lap. Sure its more than a motorcycle can carry, but I've seen plenty of ATVs either with setting for 4 or 2+bed that have as much or more cargo space and better milage.

The Willy's MB JEEP had a wheel base of 80 inches, overall length of 131in, 62in width and weighed 2,300lbs (okay, I was pretty far off on that). It had a 60hp 4cyl engine, 3+1 manual speed transmission and 2-spd transfer case as well as 4WD. I haven't seen firm milage numbers for the original Willy's MB JEEP, but numbers from 12-14 and occasionally up to 16 are what is thrown around.

For a CJ5, you get 81 or 83.5in wheel base, 138.2in overall length, 68.5in width and almost 2,700lb curb weight. The engine produce around 155hp for the V6 (AFAIK), had a 3 or 4spd manual (not sure exactly when there was a switch over or if it was an option between the two) and it seems like mileage was a little closer to 20mpg. Having been in a '73 CJ5 that a friend owned and a WWII Willy's MB JEEP, the CJ5 seemed immensely larger, much more than the few extra inches seem to imply.

Then compare that to a modern Wrangler which is a heck of a lot bigger than the original or a CJ5...and you go from having to squeeze things in, to being a practical palace.

I am not trying to say a jeep has no room, it can have plenty, but if you are lookin strictly at a wartime era JEEP, they were really small. You'd be better off with pretty much any semi-modern small SUV or pickup with a good 4WD system on it. Compared to a CJ5 or better yet modern Wrangler...well no that is probably as good as it gets unless you need lots of people/hauling space and a modern small SUV/pickup would be massively inferior.

Opps, I always thought the CJ Series( 5,6, and 7 that I know of) were the same as the WWII version. I know my uncle had a Navy Jeep that he took with him when he left the Navy, and I thought it was the same size. Course I was only ever in it when I was a kid, and I've found that what looked huge as a kid has turned out to be anything but lol.

[azazel1024]

Don't get me wrong, they old ones would be just fine in a pinch and better than a motorcycle, but they are still pretty small. Less cargo space than your average subcompact (maybe about as much space as an old geo metro inside of one). So if you are just hauling stuff for youself, that is plenty of room. However, if you are going nuts on what you are trying to haul, it just doesn't have much space, let alone if you are talking having to haul stuff for and fit in 2 or 3 or 4 people. You might manage 4 people and regular sized backpacks, in their laps/squeezed between passengers, for each as well as maybe strapping a couple of large duffles and/or a couple of jerry cans on the back of the jeep/on the hood.

[Ravenwing]

Don't get me wrong, they old ones would be just fine in a pinch and better than a motorcycle, but they are still pretty small. Less cargo space than your average subcompact (maybe about as much space as an old geo metro inside of one). So if you are just hauling stuff for youself, that is plenty of room. However, if you are going nuts on what you are trying to haul, it just doesn't have much space, let alone if you are talking having to haul stuff for and fit in 2 or 3 or 4 people. You might manage 4 people and regular sized backpacks, in their laps/squeezed between passengers, for each as well as maybe strapping a couple of large duffles and/or a couple of jerry cans on the back of the jeep/on the hood.

That makes me think....

what if you just built an old sckool dune buggy? You know, find an old VW Bug, gut it, drop a 350 in, but some decent shocks under it, a set of 34' wadders, and good ole four speed Manuel transmission to run it all? Give me a cutting torch, and some impact wrenches and I could build on in about forty eight hours, of none stop effort. and if I got zombies all over the place, and need to escape, then I'm betting I could do it in half that only cause thats some severe motivation to get it done and the hell outta dodge, lol.

[kaneman19]

you put in a case of beer and half that time

[Ravenwing]

you put in a case of beer and half that time

Lol, I live in the land of Coors.

I hate Coors, give me some Guinness, or if I have to drink domestic I do Bud Ice, lol.

[Rockwolf66]

Don't get me wrong, they old ones would be just fine in a pinch and better than a motorcycle, but they are still pretty small. Less cargo space than your average subcompact (maybe about as much space as an old geo metro inside of one). So if you are just hauling stuff for youself, that is plenty of room. However, if you are going nuts on what you are trying to haul, it just doesn't have much space, let alone if you are talking having to haul stuff for and fit in 2 or 3 or 4 people. You might manage 4 people and regular sized backpacks, in their laps/squeezed between passengers, for each as well as maybe strapping a couple of large duffles and/or a couple of jerry cans on the back of the jeep/on the hood.

I know for a fact that with a WWII Jeep with WWII field modifications you could get hundreds of miles out of a jeep and one tank of gas.

Not only could you get hundreds of miles but you could do it carrying enough supplies to start a cache. You see the Long Range Desert goup and simmilar organizations would drive out into the desert as far as the could at nightfall, set up a cache and get back before dawn. they did this until they had a forward base set us and then they would go out and set up another cache. They did that all over North Africa.

WWII SAS Jeep

[azazel1024]

Sure, but they still burned petrol/gasoline like it was going out of style. To do it they might have to strap 20-30 gallons of jerry cans to the jeep to make it 200-300 miles and then back. And yes, they could carry a ton of supplies on them...but only with a driver, no passengers. And lots and lots of supplies, still only equals maybe 1000lbs or maybe 1,500lbs. It would also be stuff that is in nice containers, like boxes, cans, etc.

In a DR setting you aren't likely to have stuff your are salvaging in nice neat boxes that are going to stack easily and can be tied down. You also have the issue that if you try making a serious run or anything like that with 1,000lbs of stuff strapped to your jeep, it is going to wallow like crazy and might overturn if you try a sharp corner at any kind of speed (I've nearly done that by accident with a work ATV with similar loading at a job site about 10 years ago...and I was going maybe 15-20mph at the time on dirt).

Now, one could be nice, but still have the issues of not convenient to carry things (you generally can't just throw something in the back like you could with fully covered vehicle, especially fully covered hard top). You can't carry many people (4, 5 for a short distance). Lastly, they guzzle gas.

Now if you happen to have a near limitless supply of fuel, or just a huge stash and don't drive around that often, they can be great. For limited use they are also great. However, something that gets in the 12-16mpg range, on the HIGHWAY is not something I'd choose as the ideal survival vehicle. That plus the other short comings. I'd rather go with something like a subaru forester or something similar. Off roading isn't quite as good, but it'll handle most basic stuff, especially with some good off road tires without even upgrading the suspension or differentials. Fuel milage is a lot better, mid 20's on the highway. There is also a lot more storage space inside of one of them and spare parts are going to be easier to come across (you don't find many WWII era jeeps on the side of the road or parts in any auto supply stores, or even stuff for 70's and 80's era CJs).

Or at the very least, get a relatively new Wranglers. Easier to find parts, more space inside, better milage and maybe even better off roading (no idea on that one).

[King Newt]

I am for motorcycles as well. I would rather give up cargo space and freedom from the elements than have a vehicle that gets stopped by a simplest traffic jam. Most cars can't go off road, so their usefulness is less. If not a motorcycle then at least a All Wheel drive car or truck. I'd at least have a cycle for my scout so he/she can check out ahead to see what's down the road. but if I am by myself the usefulness of a bike far exceeds a car to me.

Plus with a car you can forget exploring any decent sized cities. It's not going to make it. You might get in, but you're not going far.

And yes the gas mileage is far greater!

[azazel1024]

For milage, it depends on the bike and it depends on the car/truck you are comparing it to. I know plenty of bikes that get worse milage than my car, and my car is not a hybrid. Course I also know plenty of bikes that get better milage.

Frankly I'd rather have a medium sized SUV or small pickup, or better yet a large pickup with a popup camper in the bed and just hang a dirt bike off the rear. Use the dirt bike when I need ultimate mobility, but use the truck for most of my roaming.

The elements is an important factor. Unless you like living in the south full time, you are going to have to contend with freezing rain, snow, etc. If you've need to be mobile in that kind of weather, even with good driving gear, you are likely to get yourself killed from exposure or wrecking. A motorcycle is NOT as mobile as a good 4wd vehicle in medium/deep snow or ice.

[Ravenwing]

For milage, it depends on the bike and it depends on the car/truck you are comparing it to. I know plenty of bikes that get worse milage than my car, and my car is not a hybrid. Course I also know plenty of bikes that get better milage.

Frankly I'd rather have a medium sized SUV or small pickup, or better yet a large pickup with a popup camper in the bed and just hang a dirt bike off the rear. Use the dirt bike when I need ultimate mobility, but use the truck for most of my roaming.

The elements is an important factor. Unless you like living in the south full time, you are going to have to contend with freezing rain, snow, etc. If you've need to be mobile in that kind of weather, even with good driving gear, you are likely to get yourself killed from exposure or wrecking. A motorcycle is NOT as mobile as a good 4wd vehicle in medium/deep snow or ice.

Lol! I live in New Mexico! Although there are winter days in December or January that you can ride a bike in, the vast percentage of them you can't.While our average daily temp is higher then most places in NA, at night the temperature drops below freezing with ease, and even hovers around zero. add in the windchill and the temperature is easily in the negatives. And while this is a stony desert for the most part, we do get rain, snow,hail(really, really bad hail, basketball sized and other crazy sizes.) ice, sleet, and all the other forms of precipitation. Especially in the mountains. But the biggest reason not to ride a motorcycle in the SW on a fulltime basis is?

The wind. While you can ride a bike here, there are days, very common days when the wind hits 90+ MPH gusts, and sits at a constant 50+ MPH sustained. Believe me when I say our definition of a windy day here in the southwest would make most folks in the Midwest look at us like we're crazy, because back east the winds would only be found with a Tornado.