Sourcebook One: Civilization Gone nit picks.

[Ravenwing]

Ok so I picked up the first two sourcebooks for Dead Reign. and I have to say, I'm not pleased with what I got.

Sourcebook two is ok, but sourcebook one leaves much to be desired.

First off, the Trash and Pretty Zombie are to my mind, just a waste of space. Isn't a trash Zombie just a really messed up crawler? As for a pretty zombie isn't it just a (____) Zombie that feeds often? Oh sure they change cloths, and occasionaly primp and prune, but this couldn't have been covered in like half a paragraph in the main book? Did we really need to waste a few pages of an already very thin sourcebook?

Second the Crazy Person writeups, I expected an actual OCC, not just a quick template write-up for altering another class. again, this didn't add anything to the setting, or the book, just wasted space that could have been devoted to IDK, a couple of safe haven write-ups? More information on the Death Cults? IDK, either sounds more interesting and more setting specific.

Artwork: Most of it is great, but there's alot by KB, and I absolutely hate his stuff. Worse alot of his stuff illustrates the Crazy PPL, and that's just annoying. Give me more Bradshaw, Duo, or Mumah, not Kent Burles. His work just turns me off to whatever I'm reading, and I kinda space out. Ok, thats my bad, but still, you get what I'm saying.

Random House Tables: These are Ok, but I'd rather make these up myself thanks.

Zombies in house Table: Again, I'd rather come up with these tables myself.

Size: Idk, I guess I missed the page count on it in the description, but man is this thing page light. after we cut out the Reader Warning, the table of contents, and the ad at the back of the book, the page count is like 50+ pages. Ok, I get that a table of contents is important, but I don't think it should count towards the page count, it kinda seems like cheating, like back in English class when you had to write a report and you used the words' And, Or, and The' as fillers to reach that word or page count she'd set for you.

Over all I'm utterly unimpressed with the Sourcebook one, and Sourcebook two doesn't seem much better. Now admittedly I've only skimmed Sourcebook two, so I won't rant or rave about it until I do, but it seems to be in the same vein as book one. If this is the trend for Dead Reign books, I'm seriously worried.

[krate]

Interesting read.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Please post a review on sourcebook two when you get the chance.

[azazel1024]

I sort of agree to a degree .

SB3, Endless dead sounds pretty promising. I hope there is at least an example safe haven stated out with some actual filler on it, not just a few stats. I like that Military Bases (and hopefuly some military equipment) and safe haven creation tables seem like they are included. I do hope that the military equipment isn't listed out with as crapy stats/rules as the main book has...which are frankly tragic for what is listed.

I hope that DR to a degree morphs a bit in to HU2. There isn't a ton of setting specific stuff in HU2. You are left to kind of fill in a lot of the gaps...but there are a couple of actual places with full on books devoted to them (Century station for one).

I am fine with DR being fairly "Fill in the blank" with figuring out how everything started, if there could be a cure, what happened to various places, if something is a safe haven, etc. It doesn't need to be a full fleshed out (or the promise that some decade it might be fleshed out) setting like Rifts or PFRPG. However, having at least a couple of concrete "places" that are safe havens, even if they are "include them if you want" would be really nice.

At some point discussing a post apocalyptic economy of sorts and how bartering/trading occurs with safe havens would be nice. I know the main book and maybe the source books so far are in effect around 5-6 months after stuff came apart. However, at some point, unless humanity completely dies out, some kind of post apocalyptic economy is going to grow up and safe havens established, even if it would be years, decades or longer before humanity could even have a prayer of ridding the world of zombies. At some point some of the original safe havens or survivors who manage to link up and are successful, are going to fortify enough of an area to support the people they have and generally be pretty safe against the zombies.

Doesn't mean they aren't in some kind of constant danger (it only takes a death priest and/or some thinker/mock zombies to figure out a way to get some zombies over/under the wall and wreak some havoc). However, at some point there are going to be a few big safe havens. Even if they don't number to the millions, a few thousand acting as trade hubs and to a limited degree manufacturing hubs (at least limited manufacturing and refurbing a lot of salvage).

These are going to be the place that survivors try to go for asylum from the zombies, other safe havens trade with and groups that don't want to deal with civilization on a settled basis go to trade. Bandits probably would as well, though some safe havens aren't going to tolerate them, even if the bandits don't target the safe haven ever...but others will trade with anyone so long as they keep their nose clean while within the safe haven (post apocolyptic Tortugas).

I think that would add a bit of spice. It can still be survivor horror, but it also allows things to grow a bit. Maybe do missions for a safe haven, have to trade with a far away one for crucial medicine, etc.

[Ravenwing]

I sort of agree to a degree .

SB3, Endless dead sounds pretty promising. I hope there is at least an example safe haven stated out with some actual filler on it, not just a few stats. I like that Military Bases (and hopefuly some military equipment) and safe haven creation tables seem like they are included. I do hope that the military equipment isn't listed out with as crapy stats/rules as the main book has...which are frankly tragic for what is listed.

I hope that DR to a degree morphs a bit in to HU2. There isn't a ton of setting specific stuff in HU2. You are left to kind of fill in a lot of the gaps...but there are a couple of actual places with full on books devoted to them (Century station for one).

I am fine with DR being fairly "Fill in the blank" with figuring out how everything started, if there could be a cure, what happened to various places, if something is a safe haven, etc. It doesn't need to be a full fleshed out (or the promise that some decade it might be fleshed out) setting like Rifts or PFRPG. However, having at least a couple of concrete "places" that are safe havens, even if they are "include them if you want" would be really nice.

At some point discussing a post apocalyptic economy of sorts and how bartering/trading occurs with safe havens would be nice. I know the main book and maybe the source books so far are in effect around 5-6 months after stuff came apart. However, at some point, unless humanity completely dies out, some kind of post apocalyptic economy is going to grow up and safe havens established, even if it would be years, decades or longer before humanity could even have a prayer of ridding the world of zombies. At some point some of the original safe havens or survivors who manage to link up and are successful, are going to fortify enough of an area to support the people they have and generally be pretty safe against the zombies.

Doesn't mean they aren't in some kind of constant danger (it only takes a death priest and/or some thinker/mock zombies to figure out a way to get some zombies over/under the wall and wreak some havoc). However, at some point there are going to be a few big safe havens. Even if they don't number to the millions, a few thousand acting as trade hubs and to a limited degree manufacturing hubs (at least limited manufacturing and refurbing a lot of salvage).

These are going to be the place that survivors try to go for asylum from the zombies, other safe havens trade with and groups that don't want to deal with civilization on a settled basis go to trade. Bandits probably would as well, though some safe havens aren't going to tolerate them, even if the bandits don't target the safe haven ever...but others will trade with anyone so long as they keep their nose clean while within the safe haven (post apocolyptic Tortugas).

I think that would add a bit of spice. It can still be survivor horror, but it also allows things to grow a bit. Maybe do missions for a safe haven, have to trade with a far away one for crucial medicine, etc.

Lol, I agree that SB3 shows promise, but at the same time, the first two did as well in their product descriptions

However, the two we got so far, are 64 pages, which is pretty light page count wise. Now I agree we don't need to have every corner, city, town etc fleshed out for us, I like the openess of the setting, and I don't want to see DR turn into a Rifts style, with a worldbook that completely runs over what I had planned for a certain area.

But I would like to have a couple of 'official' safe haven areas, if only to have something to compare to my own creations. I'd also like to see more on the Death Cults, especially the Death Cults, since they seem to have a very important place in the setting. I'd also like to see the sourcebook page count go up some, atleast 90+ pages of actual game/world information once we remove the reader warning, table of contents and the ads at the back for the rifter or what not.

I'd also like to see some original zombies, not just variants on the others. I know I've created two for my own setting, I'm sure others have as well. They aren't just different flavors of slouchers or fast attackers, but completely different types.

Yes I know some might say that the variants ARE different, but look at them for a moment, the new types in both sourcebooks are really just variants, variants that could have been just listed under the main types. Like I said before, whats a Pretty Zombie or a Trash Zombie but a slightly different Sloucher or Crawler? We could have gotten away with a few quick paragraphs on them, and bam! had space for more information on say Death Cults, Survivor NPC's, Safe Haven Communities, etc.

Now I hope that Sourcebook three is better, and I know I'm going to buy it when it comes out, lol, I love DR, and I'm not trying to rag on it, but give some constructive criticism is all.

[azazel1024]

Well, SB3 is supposedly coming in at 96 pages, so that is something. It is 50% longer than the previous books.

I agree, I don't need detailed regional description, power descriptions, etc. However a handful, maybe 2-4 nicely stated out safe haven with 1-2 smallish (less than 500 people) maybe a medium (>500<4,000) and maybe a big (>4,000 but probably nothing bigger than about 50,000 people left in the world). Doesn't have to be street by street, but a good 10-15 pages at least for the bigger ones would be nice. Some highlights of the safe haven. Maybe a few key characters ("mayor", "police chief/chief protector" a couple of notables), a few key businesses/traders, a few resources, maybe a discussion of relations with outsiders, some notes about defenses and defenders and maybe actually have it losely based on a real location.

I don't expect much in SB3. I'd be a little suprised if there wasn't at least an example safe haven that is semi-generic listed (like generic merc company at the end of the merc rollup table in Mercs Sourcebook). I just hope in a future book we could get a little more concrete info on the world. Again, I don't want a huge amount. Effectively a 64 page sourcebook just dedicated to "concrete" existing safe havens, post apocalyptic trade, etc is probably more than enough in perpetutity for me.

[Ravenwing]

You know something that a player suggested to me?

That the ideal of money might not be so far off. Remember Land of the Dead and Fiddlers Green?

Well my player pointed out that a number of people, probably very wealthy or criminal wouldn't want to see their main means of wealth to simply disappear, IE cash. These people would probably work to ensure that they're money was still valuable. Since all currency is valuable based on the fact that society says it's valuable(Yes I understand that currency is backed by precious metals, but this is the main reason cash is considered to have value. As for example in the south pacific a tribe of natives consider 25' round stone wheels that they carved are currency, and these have no intrinsic value other then they say so.)

Using that, along with the idea of Fiddlers Green from Land of the Dead, I'm thinking of experimenting with the idea. Of course prices would be higher, supply and demand, but the idea of a safe haven community run by a wealthy tycoon, or even a Corporation fits in great with my play style(I'm an avid Shadowrun/Cyberpunk Fan). think of it, whats more horrifying then an uncaring corporation that only seeks to ensure its bottom line and the survival of its board of directors? But to which you are completely and utterly dependent on for not only your own survival, but your families.
Gives a whole new meaning to the term 'wage slave' don't it?

[azazel1024]

So long as none of the safe havens are operated by a corporation named "Umbrella" and none of the city names is "Racoon City" I'll be happy

Otherwise I like the idea. I do also agree, especially once things become a bit more stablized with the safe havens, there will be some kind of "money". Barter is fine on a really small scale, but it frankly gets unwieldy quick.

Sure you can't shot a dollar bill, or eat it, or wear it to keep you warm. However, if you have a lot of "wealth" you can't carry it around as trade goods either. I think those outside of the safe havens would carry as many "valuables" for trade as possible, but eventually you get to a limit with "wealth" for "independents" and you HAVE to convert things in to extreme valuable, low bulk items. Previous metals likely would see a big resurgence as a valuable commodity/money. You would probably also see some other things like antibiotics and medicines are "money" in some ways.

There are going to be plenty of times money is worthless. Afterall, "out in the bush" if you run across someone, they might not be willing to "trade" you a single bullet for 20lbs of gold if they think they need it. Hit a safe haven though and they might be more than willing to sell you a box of 300rds for an ounce of gold though.

Prices are also going to vary alot depending on supply and demand. At one safe haven bullets might run you 100rds for an ounce of gold and at the next one 5rds for an ounce of gold if ammo is getting scarce, or just simply CANNOT be bought for anything. Or maybe it can't be bought for "money", but you happen to have a couple of 30 count bottles of amoxicylin tablets in your bag...which they'd trade 50rds for, but wouldn't take any of your gold because they've got a couple of people with some bad infections even though ammo is scarce.

I think it would take a lot of role playing for the economy, but at the same time, it isn't insurmountable to put down in one of the books the basics of a "monetary" system and if you are listing out equipment, sevices, etc from safe haven communities or salvage assigning it a general monetary value with the obvious caveat that prices could vary -50 to +1,000% and/or just not be available for purchase (but maybe trade) based on the "money" used.

[Ravenwing]

So long as none of the safe havens are operated by a corporation named "Umbrella" and none of the city names is "Racoon City" I'll be happy

Otherwise I like the idea. I do also agree, especially once things become a bit more stablized with the safe havens, there will be some kind of "money". Barter is fine on a really small scale, but it frankly gets unwieldy quick.

Sure you can't shot a dollar bill, or eat it, or wear it to keep you warm. However, if you have a lot of "wealth" you can't carry it around as trade goods either. I think those outside of the safe havens would carry as many "valuables" for trade as possible, but eventually you get to a limit with "wealth" for "independents" and you HAVE to convert things in to extreme valuable, low bulk items. Previous metals likely would see a big resurgence as a valuable commodity/money. You would probably also see some other things like antibiotics and medicines are "money" in some ways.

There are going to be plenty of times money is worthless. Afterall, "out in the bush" if you run across someone, they might not be willing to "trade" you a single bullet for 20lbs of gold if they think they need it. Hit a safe haven though and they might be more than willing to sell you a box of 300rds for an ounce of gold though.

Edit*** ofcourse DR already has a built in company for this, the Benford Group.

Prices are also going to vary alot depending on supply and demand. At one safe haven bullets might run you 100rds for an ounce of gold and at the next one 5rds for an ounce of gold if ammo is getting scarce, or just simply CANNOT be bought for anything. Or maybe it can't be bought for "money", but you happen to have a couple of 30 count bottles of amoxicylin tablets in your bag...which they'd trade 50rds for, but wouldn't take any of your gold because they've got a couple of people with some bad infections even though ammo is scarce.

I think it would take a lot of role playing for the economy, but at the same time, it isn't insurmountable to put down in one of the books the basics of a "monetary" system and if you are listing out equipment, sevices, etc from safe haven communities or salvage assigning it a general monetary value with the obvious caveat that prices could vary -50 to +1,000% and/or just not be available for purchase (but maybe trade) based on the "money" used.

Agreed

And absolutely not for Umbrella or Raccoon City.
I'd much rather use a firearms industry, like Colt, Springfield Arms, or Lugar(for example) or possibly a Private Contractor firm(IE Merc Company) like Black Eagle or what not. Although, now that I think about it some, perhaps a company like Johnson and Johnson, or another Pharmaceutical/Medical company.