Back in the zone.

[Epically]

Hey guys, dunno if you remember me, I used to post a while back running a DR/heroes hybrid campaign. Well I'm missing DR, so I'm coming back to run my campaign of horrors again.

Now, I'm from Australia, and I'm not sure if you guys know of not, but Australia has very strict gun control. Thus, if a zombie war broke out here, we'd be in a world of hurt, not having access to the wide variety of our colonial brethren's arsenal.

The problem I have right now is I could use your country as the premis, but when it comes to routes, land marks and towns, I got no idea.

The questions I have are; for my fellow Aussies, what do you do in this situation? For everyone else, I was wondering if anyone uses a made up world with fake, but similar to real life locations? If so, did you design a map? If so again, can you give me any tips on doing so?

Thanks in advance, and I look forward to go tributing again.

[Hendrik]

Hi there,

I would use your home country (continent) as you know that best.

Well, now as to availability of guns. I think weapons are available to a lot more people in case of a Zombie incursion than one would expect. I e.g. am in Germany and gun laws in Australia cannot possibly be much harsher than here. However, there are several groups to which guns are usually available - either private persons under certain requirements, like a criminal records bureau check, a certain minimum age, etc.) or professionals (with or without permission to carry (or at least carry home) privately as well).

- shooting competitors (athletes)
- hunters (of which there are also many in Germany)
- members of a shooters' club (of which there are also many in Germany)
- clerks and shop owners selling guns and ammunition
- gunsmiths

and the obvious:
- policemen
- soldiers

Several groups may not have guns at their disposal but loads of weapon like equipment than may proof useful to down the odd Zombie:
- firemen
- craftsmen (like smiths)

Aside from that I think that at some point weapon access spots (shops, army depots, police stations) will either (1) hand out guns or (2) the guns there will sooner or later be "freely" or (3) "negotiably" available. If you have enough time to prepare, (4) the black market would be another option.

Finally, Germany had a draft and most men have been, to some level or another, at least for a couple of months in their life, trained in the use of weapons and can - up to a certain age, for privates until 32 IIRC - be (5) re-drafted in case of emergency. I think a Zombie apocalypse would be exactly such kind of emergency and if your government is quick enough, they would put a lot of young man again in uniform and under arms, so that way weapons would suddenly be available were they were not before. I do not know about Australia, but I am sure Israel and Turkey are just the same.

Cheers
Hendrik

I would choose a real life location as research on it is easy and data readily available.

[Epically]

Thanks for the reply.

Our gun laws got crazy strict back in 96 I think it was when Martin Bryant went on that killing spree in Tasmania. Only thing you can buy from shops are 9mm pistols, hunting rifles, no bigger than .303, and over-under shotguns for clay target (skeet) shooting.
The only only other access to guns are police and the military, which to my knowledge, having being ex-military, are locked up tighter than a nun's bum hole.
Most of the armouries are electronic also, so with no electricity for the game, it's virtually impossible to get any type of weapon other than previously mentioned, and even then still hard.

I just don't want my players to feel left out from the wide variety of weapons the game has to offer due to our gun laws.

[Shawn Merrow]

Ways to arm your players.

1. Neighbor down the road turns out to have a large illegal cache of weapons. He dies quickly and players inherit the cache.
2. Players find an overrun military outpost and are able to loot some weapons.
3. The police decided they need all the help they can get and hand out weapons to trust worthy citizens.
4. Military supply convoy got stuck in traffic and taken out by Zombies, again lots of great loot.

If you can see it their is an anime called High School of the Dead about a Zombie Apocalypse set in Japan. I think it would give you some good idea.

[Hendrik]

Hi there,

come to think about it a wee bit more:

AUTHENTIC CAMPAIGN
Actually, I think it is very cool to have the players start out only (a) with what the normal Joe or (b) their chosen profession (it WAS their choice, right?) has available. Think of e.g. the first Half Life game. The "hero" is a scientist and when the aliens start plaguing this secret complex and he basically has to fight his way up to the air (to get away but actually get into yet more trouble) he has nothing. How happy I was when I found that crowbar, I had a sense of achievement and at last something with which I could fight back. That situation is actually very much the same as in a Zombie apocalypse. Let the players think on their feet and fight to deserve those nifty weapons. I also find that would add up to the "credibility", flair, "realism" and, thusly, horror. And, as a GM, you can always say, "hey, guys this is the apocalypse in Oz so what do you expect".

STACKING THE DECK FOR THE PLAYERS
This goes along the lines of what Shawn said above. You can, if you feel you need to, stack the deck more in favour of the players (or level the playing field a bit). This works fine with a gun restricted country. Just give the players early access - mind, you will take away or reduce the sense of achievement, of "fight to survive, Joe" - to weapons, e.g. aside from Shawn's very fine examples they could be part of the police force, emergency draftees in the army or national guard or whatever you call it in Oz, they could be members in a gun club, etc.

Another option could be to start the game in the country side. Forgetting about the law for a moment, I think that people in rural areas often have their own ways to deal with the law, i.e. ignoring some, having agreements with their buddy the sergeant of the mini police force there, etc. I also assume that maybe several farmers have special rules so that they might carry guns to defend cattle against the Oz-equivalent of a wolf, maybe just to put down ill animals. Come to think of it ... a bolt gun will be freely available in rural areas (and abattoirs) and can be a dandy - if too close range for comfort - weapon against a Zombie.

PLOT DEVICE: SIMPLY CHANGE THE LAW
Rather than play in a country that does not have the legal limits on guns why don't you just change the gun laws in your game world? You could just say that after xyz happened, maybe it was a minor outbreak in the Outback but explained as a terror zell or mass paninc or drug induced rage-thing or whatever, the parliament has decided to change the gun laws again so that now people can defend their home. Whatever (faux) explanation you recur on, the law is changed and your guys can start with guns (although I would definitely NOT give the military stuff unless they come up with a way to get it by themselves). I still think this is not the preferable option as I think that players have more fun if they have to fight for any gimmicks and that being unarmed (or badly armed) is the easiest plot device to make players feel scared, i.e. feel the horror, and that is the whole point, is it not?

Cheers
Hendrik

[azazel1024]

Agree with above. If things seem to be slowly going to pot with infection and outbreaks, it is quite possible there might be emergency laws that get pushed through the Australian legislature and if it is one thing I have learned about our dear world, gun makers can always quickly ramp up production of weapons and are eager too. Of course if it is only a week or two from "outbreak" to zombies rising, no way a large number of weapons could be disseminated except from existing stocks.

However, if it is a couple of months of some kind of plague and pandemic spreading, with law enforcement breaking down with panics, etc and an emergency law passing lossening gun laws, it is quite possible tens of thousands of fire arms might be introduced in to communities to people who normally couldn't/wouldn't own them before the zombies start rising (maybe it takes weeks at first for the plague to kill people, or maybe the first zombies take weeks to rise from the dead if just a general infection instead of being biten/killed by zombies).

Other thoughts, military armories of a lot of countries on bases are very strictly controlled and locked up. However, I have a hard time imagining from what I know of them I couldn't get in to one in less than a couple of hours with the tools I could find in any base's vehicle maintenance shop (oxy-accetalene torch, generator and power drills, etc).

Police armories also aren't nearly so well locked up as a military armory.

Wiped out military or police check points, abandoned police vehicles or lone military vehicles, etc are all likely to have weapons laying around. Still gotta be some gun stores that might not have been looted, or completely looted when things really feel apart completely. Maybe stranded ships just off shore or in port that had weapons on board.

I am actually a little curious about the legality of something like weapons on board a ship according to international and national laws. I'd assume you might well be charged as a gun runner if a private vessel if you had a lot of weapons on board. However, what about say a private yacht or sailboat flying an international flag in the port of a country that bans or greatly restricts fire arms? I'd assume you absolutely could not take the weapon off the vessel, but what if say I have a US flagged sailboat and visit an English port and I have an AR-15 in a gun cabinet for protection against pirates and such forth. Is that illegal, or under international maritime law can I legally keep the weapon on board in a foreign port that has fire arms bans/strict controls?

[Hendrik]

I am actually a little curious about the legality of something like weapons on board a ship according to international and national laws. I'd assume you might well be charged as a gun runner if a private vessel if you had a lot of weapons on board. However, what about say a private yacht or sailboat flying an international flag in the port of a country that bans or greatly restricts fire arms? I'd assume you absolutely could not take the weapon off the vessel, but what if say I have a US flagged sailboat and visit an English port and I have an AR-15 in a gun cabinet for protection against pirates and such forth. Is that illegal, or under international maritime law can I legally keep the weapon on board in a foreign port that has fire arms bans/strict controls?

Hey there, azazel1024,

a lot of wild rumours, bias, speculation and serious discussions abound on the subject, given rise to especially because of e.g. the Somalian pirate situation. I read up on that a wee bit but I am anything but an expert on maritime law.

Interested again, I searched the web - focussing on small arms (do not look for "guns" as in naval speak that is the real thing (aka canon and such) and not a hand gun) and voilá here is a link to (serious) information on this subject by a reputable law firm: article on the use of small arms etc. (link provided solely for game purposes and not intended or construed to be legal advice; if you consider storing or carrying in any way weapons of any sort on a boat, ship or other vessel on river, sea or other body of water, seek legal counsel first).

According to that:

"...Under international law, merchant vessels and their crews have the right to carry arms for self defense if that is required for the vessel to exercise its freedom of navigation. Self-defense measures include providing weapons and training to the crew and/or hiring armed guards to allow the vessel to navigate. The self-defense measures and their employment should be proportionate to the threat. ..."

"...The flag State of a vessel may promulgate requirements or restrictions on the use of weapons by merchant ships at sea. ..."

"... Port States may restrict the use of weapons by crews of foreign flag ships while in port. The presence of weapons should be specifically provided for in the vessel security plan approved by the flag State. In these cases, it is recommended that any weapons aboard ship for self defense be unloaded and securely stowed and locked below decks under the supervision of the master while the ship is in port or entering or leaving territorial seas during a port call. ..."

I do not think you can get it any better than that without actually seriously delving into the arcane depth of international maritime law and look at least at the actual treaties governing international sea trade as well as the respective national laws (port states) but for the game the above (link) could well suffice to go by. A good "port of call" for further information could be the admirality (or equivalent), coast guard (or equivalent) and customs authorities' websites of this world.

Re AR-15
Well, that is definitely a firearm ... but whether that falls under the (international and port of call) legal definition of an admissibly stored on the ship "small arm", I do not know. The AR-15 being a sort of an "assault rifle" (as in "military grade semi automatic (right?) infantry weapon") I harbour doubts as to whether such rifle (right?) would be ok. But, as said, I don't know.

I think a "sniper rifle" would not be ok, a bolt action rifle could be. A pistol should be fine, a SMG maybe not.

Cheers
Hendrik

[azazel1024]

Yeah I took the time after posting to do some googlefu as well. Looks like it is country dependent. Though the general international precedent seems to be so long as you declare it to customs and either keep it on your vessel under customs' seal until you leave port, or have it in customs locked storage onshore you are okay in most countries that have strict gun control laws. Also it looks like handguns are a really bad idea, as most countries have bans or extremely strict enforcement and any "military" style rifle is also a bad idea. Bolt action sporting rifles are next in line for "bad ideas". Shotguns seem to be pretty universally allowed by most nations and the most acceptable to most customs officers.

Most of what I have been able to find pretty much says, not even if in doubt, you NEED to contact the consular offices or customs agency of any country you'll be sailing through the territorial waters of or docking in to find out their laws.

As above though, most countries in the world shotguns are legal to some extent and even in countries where private firearm ownership is illegal, customs laws will allow firearms to be kept on board under customs seal or in secure shore storage until leaving port. However, not ALL countries allow firearms in their territorial waters, and in a lot of cases it can mean confiscation of the fire arm, fines, siezure of the vessel and jail time depending on the country.

I did read a good argument on the use of shotguns for onboard defense that went beyond their legal status in most countries. With a shotgun that can take rifled slugs you have an accuracy out to around 100yds with a resonable barrel length and you can load it with shot for short range and onboard defense and #4 shot and smaller tends to have too low a penetration to go through bulkheads and the sort and hit things behind walls of what you are aiming at with misses. Smaller ones also tend to be fairly handy, especially with collapsable or folding stocks and shotguns tend not to seem as threatening to customs officials, but the psychological impact of hearing a shell getting racked on a person intent on boarding your vessel is pretty large (even if they themselves are armed).

At some point in the future I plan on buying a sail boat (I live a very short drive from the Chesepeake bay in Maryland (US) which is one of the largest fresh water estuaries in the world and the largest in the US). Whilest sailing around my home state and up and down the US coast I don't feel a particularly great need for onboard defense, but if sailing the Carribean and other countries (which I'll probably do in retirement if I am lucky) I would like a firearm onboard. I had been thinking a pistol and a rifle (bolt action), but on reflection it sounds like a shotgun really makes more sense (if my wife is willing to learn to use one and is willing to use one, maybe a pair of shotguns, a 12 guage for me and a 20 guage or .410 for her as she is slight enough that a 12 guage might be too heavy).

Of course it also sounds like before considering that even I need to look in to various Carribean, Mexican and Canadian national firearms laws and customs laws.

The boat probably won't be big enough to do Transatlantic sailing (alas).

PS I am looking at roughly a 27ft Colmbia for now and when I have time in retirement (sadly almost 30 years away) I am hoping to be able to afford roughly a 34-38ft boat.

[Razzinold]

Thanks for the reply.

Our gun laws got crazy strict back in 96 I think it was when Martin Bryant went on that killing spree in Tasmania. Only thing you can buy from shops are 9mm pistols, hunting rifles, no bigger than .303, and over-under shotguns for clay target (skeet) shooting.
The only only other access to guns are police and the military, which to my knowledge, having being ex-military, are locked up tighter than a nun's bum hole.
Most of the armouries are electronic also, so with no electricity for the game, it's virtually impossible to get any type of weapon other than previously mentioned, and even then still hard.

I just don't want my players to feel left out from the wide variety of weapons the game has to offer due to our gun laws.

Dude, you call that strict ? You better hope you are not visiting Canada during the zombie outbreak then, all I could do here is like maybe use a sharpened hockey stick
Seriously though, we have strict gun laws. I Know I could break into a gun shop and steal a shotgun or rifle. I could be wrong, someone correct me if i am, but isn't the only way to get a pistol in Canada is if it's ordered through a gun shop ? As far as I know they don't keep any in stock since they are so restricted here. But like I said I could be wrong, last time I was in a gun shop was like 22 years ago (was 10 at the time so didn't really pay attention) when my dad bought some shotgun shells.

[Hendrik]

Hi there,

I would agree that a gun law is not so terribly strict if you could get a 9mm, etc. if, indeed, it was without much further ado. I know the following is, yet again, a wall of text, but I hope it is useful to y'all still.

AVAILABILITY OF GUNS ACCORDING TO DEAD REIGN

- The core book, while giving a fantastic load of detail on e.g. damage per calibre (which I think is generic but detailed enough and sensibly practical), states only - unless I committed the sin of oversight - that [oversimplified] "weapons are available according to market conditions, it is a sellers' market".
- "Civilization Gone" provides (pages 45 ss.) various tables on "Resources Common to most homes & households". Page 46 has a table that gives the probability for the existence of a gun safe (with 1D4+1) with 10%, a 25% for a separate loaded pistol and a 40% chance for a shotgun or hunting rifle (THAT number must be a US thing), there are also probabilities for melee weapons. And all that in the bedroom. There are further tables for other rooms. Personally, I think those tables are, as usually, an excellent idea and can be very helpful. However, I think the numbers (%) and how that stacks up weapons presence in the overall house seems unrealistic to me. But, also as per usual, such tables can be a nice indicator and roll when the GM has not made up his mind in advance and it is easy to adapt the tables before adopting or even while using them.
- "Dark Places" provides (page 35 s.) a table for random weapons found along railroad tracks. Maybe highway would be similar (glove compartment armament and such ).

Ok, what can the real world add for indicators of weapons (firearms) availability? And, how can/should the above numbers be modified in other countries than the US (because I assume that a US citizen author who writes such tables uses his experience and guesses for the area he knows as a "searchlight").

WIKIPEDIA ON GUN LAWS (some links)
I have done some wikifu and here are the links [as SPOILER to decrease length of post]:

Spoiler:

- Gun politics/availability criteria in Australia

- Gun politics/availability criteria in Germany

- Gun politics/availability criteria in the UK

- general link on Gun laws of the world (wikipedia)

- Gun laws in the USA (by state)

GUN POSSESSION RATES: 2 LISTS
But this one may be the most relevant for Dead Reign: List of countries by gun ownership (List 1).

As that list however does not say how many households actually have weapons, e.g. the figure 88 weapons per 100 citizens in the US does not necessarily mean that 88 out of 100 people have firearms, it just means that there are 88 firearms per 100 people, it is an average only, of course; thus, here is a: List showing Gun Ownership as a Percentage of Households Owning Guns (List 2).

GAMING APPLICATION: PERCENTAGE CHANCE TO FIND A WEAPON IN A HOUSEHOLD
Either the first of the second list (or an average of both) can be used, maybe with modifiers, when the GM checks whether there is a gun in a place for the party to find. For example:

a. LIST 1 According to the first list there would be an 88% chance to find a gun in a US household, while there would only be a 15% chance to find one in an Australian home and a 30% chance in Germany (although that would likely be, say 60%, in a safe as the law obliges the holder to keep a gun that way and NOT in the nightstand).
b. LIST 2 According to the second list the chances to find a firearm in a household would be 39% (USA), 19% (Australia) or 9% (Germany).
c. Applying these findings (percentages and guns per 100 citizens) to the Dead Reign tables above: No matter which list you pick, it would also be easy to modify the results of the dead reign tables according to the numbers in list 1 or list 2. For example if the probability to find a loaded gun in the bedroom is 25% in the US, which according to list no. 1 has 88 guns per 100 citizens while Australia has 15 per 100, i.e. about only 1/6th of the number of guns, the bedroom-find-a-loaded-gun-percentage will be c. 1/6th of 25%, i.e. about 4% only. Using list no. 2 the result would vary and be that in Australia all gun finding percentages from the Dead Reign tables would simply have to be halved (39% probability of a gun present in a USA household contrasted with the 19% probability in Australia would be the basis).

In any case, I would pick the list (1 or 2 above) that is closer to how easy I want it to be to find weapons where I want to rely on chance for that at all.

I have not delved any deeper into this - and do not think it really necessary for the purposes of the game, although interest there will vary - and thus do not know whether the above lists only compile and use official data (such as only recurring on legally possessed firearms based on number of permits, licences, etc.) or actually also make allowance for illegally possessed firearms (such as by also using police figures on that as well as making an allowance for educated guessing, i.e. speculation). I would for the purposes of the game assume that the numbers above are only about legally possessed weapons and would modify such rolls heavily upwards when the group e.g. hits the weapons stash of a gang, "militia", etc. Logically, a police station for example would (at least in most if not all countries) have a 100% chance to find weapons no matter what the country quota is.

SMALL ARMS SURVEY (links to the Geneva based research) [as SPOILER to decrease length of post]

Spoiler:

And here is the source that wikipedia repeatedly points to on this issue: Small Arms Survey.

You will find a pdf "Small Arms Survey Note No. 9" here, which also tries to also give a number (estimate) of all guns available, legally or not. The number for the US is 270,000,000, Germany 25,000,000, and England & Wales 3,400,000.

Here is the survey on Gangs and information on "other armed groups".

Cheers
Hendrik

[azazel1024]

Canada's gun laws are pretty strict, but almost everyone has one (relatively speaking).

The US is number 1 with 88.8 guns per 100 residents. Canada is number 13 with 30.8 guns per 100 residents.

Serbia is #2 with 58.2 guns per 100 residents. Yes we Americans have issues. France is actually one place ahead of Canada and Australia is #42 with 15 guns per 100 residents.

If you look at those numbers, it seems like most households have a gun, but keep in mind plenty of people who own multiple guns. So in the US despite 88.8 guns per 100 people, actual individual ownership is probably closer to 1 in 4 to 1 in 5 people/households owning a gun or a little less (all of the 2 and 3 and 80 gun per owner situations ups the numbers a lot).

Other countries this is a little less as there tends to be less multiple gun ownership in those countries. So Canada is probably closer to maybe 1 in 6 or even 1 in 5 individuals owning a gun (might be somewhat less to). Generally the stricter gun ownership is, the fewer multiple posessions you have.

So Australia might even be as high as 1 gun per 10 individuals. Search a neighborhood and you'll likely find a few guns if you search enough houses.

PS England and Wales are boned in the case of a zombie outbreak, only 6.2 guns per 100, 5.5 per 100 in Scotland, and the poor Tunisians might as well give up before it has started, they have .1 gun per 100 (176th in the world)

[Hendrik]

Generally the stricter gun ownership is, the fewer multiple posessions you have.

I don't know if that is quite true. There are very strict gun laws in Germany but the friends of mine who have guns (members of marksmen clubs or hunters) usually have several guns. The marksmen have pistols and rifles and the hunters rifles (and only a small number of handguns). I would therefore venture that the opposite may hold true, at least, that the above cited passage of what you said does not need to hold true.

I guess that in countries with lax gun laws, such as the US, even a granny who would normally not buy a pistol will have one at home because it is so easy to get and ... [a bit tongue in cheek:] ... in an environment where "anyone" can have a gun should not even "granny" have her shotgun (pistol, rocket launcher, whatever) just to be safe?

Funny fact: The US has 5% of the world's population but accounts for 35-50% of all civilian-owned guns (Source: Small Arms Survey 2007, chapter 2). Great for the apocalypse!

[Epically]

Thanks for the tips guys.

I've decided to run my campaign as Martin Bryant never existed, thus no gun control. Also with Australia's populace being around the 60-70 million mark, as opposed to it's current 23 million, to allow a lot more zombies.

[Shawn Merrow]

Your welcome and good luck.

[Hendrik]

Your welcome and good luck.

Aye, and have fun!!!

[azazel1024]

Zombie dingos? Dingos ate my brains

[Hendrik]

Zombie dingos? Dingos ate my brains

Hmm, Australia and zombies.

My first thought are the fearsome Zombaroos.

My second: ... if I remember correctly ... Oz has the lead in poisonous animals in the world, especially in the water. Now if a Zombie walks/falls in the water, those water snakes and such ... my, my, some Zombies would keep their poison for a while.

And, then, third: Surfzombies at the Great Barrier Reef!

That's not a brain, THAT is a brain,
Hendrik

[Epically]

Haha. I like those ideas.

My player's are currently trying to work out what this "Operation True Death" is as well as why there appears to be a person bitten and eaten to death, yet never rose as zombie? Hmm...

[G]

Thanks for those stats, they are quite interesting!

As for guns, with so many people dead there are a lot of extra weapons available. Take the ratio of dead:living and multiply that by the number of guns available...so if there are 100 dead people for every living person, there are a lot more guns available.

So according to list 1, there are 15 guns per person available in Australia. I expect that doesn't include government guns, or people who didn't report them. All you have to do is find them, and table 2 says there are two houses our of every 10 with guns...it shouldn't be as bad as you thought.

[azazel1024]

Correct, the statistics AFAIK are only for private gun ownership, they don't take in to account "publically" owned fire arms, such as those issued to police/law enforcement, paramilitary organizations or the military. If you include those the US is probably closer to 100 guns per 100 individuals (about 3% of the us falls in to military, paramilitary or law enforcement and average number of guns per is probably 3-5 if you take in to account redundancies in armories, etc).

[Oberoth]

Also remember that guns are not the end all be all of Zombie defense. Melee weapons are just as lethal and have several bonuses that small arms don't. Such as less noise and great availability.

[Grell]

In game, I've seen a construction worker with a heavy crowbar take down more zeds than the hunter with the high powered rifle; especially indoors.

[azazel1024]

Well that is in part because game rules make a head shot exceedingly difficult. Downside of melee combat is you have to get pretty much in range of a zombies attack to be able to hit them. I'd rather be 100yds off taking them down than close enough that they could grab me.

However, for "not able to missfire or break" a crowbad certain has it down as just about the perfect zombie weapon and generally all around useful (moving things, breaking open doors, caving in zombie skulls, etc).

The successful survivor does not rely on a single weapon. They have at least one primary long range weapon and one primary melee weapon at their disposal. Preferably with a secondary of each (smaller/lighter so as not to bog themselves down).

[Grell]

I agree. Though that group loves pressed meat attacks since it completely nullifies any difficulty in gaining the coveted head shot.