Palladium Vampire VS Zombies Set up

[Ronin Shinobi]

The Episode on Deadliest warriors and a comment made about the match up between Palladium own Vampires vs Dead reign zombies on another post sparked this one. How would the vampires of palladium hold up against a horde of Undead? Now don't have the books with me so can't set up a scenario, least numbers wise with the zombie variants. but did place a general scenario in along with poll in case people wanted to vote on it as well as debate.

Scenario for the poll: Basing some of it off deadliest warrior's lets say a small group of 5 vampires on a hunt wandered too far from their resting place and now couldn't get back in time before sun raise. They go in and shelter in a abandoned factory that is conviviality far away from civilization so they don't have to worry about being interrupted while they rest for the day. However they soon discovered the factory is littered with zombies who are now shambling out of their hiding places and converging on the group. Over all the factory is home to about 250 zombies to their 5. They can't escape because sun is just raising trapping them all in the factory with the horde, making this a fight to the death for one side. Now since don't have books with me I cant give you exact number of variants but if you like you can place in your own using the general randomization charts in the book for generating hordes. With that said, place your bets folks

[Ronin Shinobi]

Actually thought it would be fun to to debate on. Guessing not.

[dargo83]

i would have to agree that it would be fun to debate this topic. like with the episode zeds would lose in the short term battle, but thats with Romaro type or World War Z zeds. but even then just with just slouchers the vamps would have a hard time, let alone all of the other veriaties of zeds. throw in the thinkers from the rifter the veds would be utterly boned. and if ur talking about a world wide zombie invasion there might be a few thousand to a few hundred thousnd vamps to a few billion dead heads. vamps need to feed daily or they get weaker and eventualy die from starvation. where as zombies dont "need" to feed that is The Living Dead or WWZ where they only feed but dont need to eat and to spread there contagen. when u think about all animals including ourselves the most primale drives are the need to feed and to reproduce, and that is what they do in one foul swoop.

[Ronin Shinobi]

That would be only reason vampires would fight zombies anyway. They are a threat to their own food supply. Its no different if one predator finds another in its territory despite being a different species. It recognizes the threat as a competitor to it's food supply and thei have been cases where they would kill the rival and not eat the remains.

[dargo83]

i would have to agree but if they reduce the sdc/hp of the vamps then all they need to do is take out the heart then they can regenerat. or the zeds could rip the vamps to pieces and could (i said could) walk outside with the pieces like the head or the heart into the sun or into some water.

[Ronin Shinobi]

Vampires have access to a whole list of abilities zombies don't. Particularly a high regeneration rate and ability of transformation.

[Severus Snape]

Too many questions need answers before I can vote on this. Specifically:

1. What type of zombies are we talking about? Romero style, where they are slow and only dangerous in large packs? Or Dawn of the Dead remake where they come to unlife almost immediately after dying and can run faster than a car?

2. What type of vampires are we talking about? The classic Dracula as created by Bram Stoker, or the Anne Rice version like Lestat, or even the Blade version that can survive sunlight so long as they wore plenty of SPF 500?

3. What dark gifts do the vampires possess? Flight, enhanced strength, mind reading, turn to mist...which ones?

I think in the scenario you presented any smart vampire would fly up to the ceiling and just wait things out until the sun goes down and they can break through the ceiling and fly away. I even doubt that the fight would take place if even so much as 1 of the vampires had the ability to control other forms of undead (which most vampires tend to have).

Also, do vampires even have their own PPE? Wouldn't they only radiate PPE if they just recently fed? If that's the case, then the next question is: When did the vampires last feed? I know you said they were hunting, but you didn't indicate if they succeeded or not. If they hadn't fed earlier that evening, the zombies wouldn't even pay attention to them as they wouldn't radiate any PPE.

Again, too hard to vote until more detail is provided.

[Ronin Shinobi]

Too many questions need answers before I can vote on this. Specifically:

All the questions can be answered. Were basing this solely on on the palladium based creatures. SDC variation if you want more specifics. If you are wanting exact variation I will draw look through my books tonight and post what variants are present. Including vampire ones. Heck in fact get new vampire kingdom book so that I'm up to date.

[Ronin Shinobi]

Alright despite the other variations I am going have all vampires be secondary. Fell placing a vampire Lord/Master would be over powering and Wild Vampires wouldn't have enough guile due to their primal instincts to fight til death to survive a zombie horde. other Variants like Wampyr wouldn't be feasible as well.

As for the Zombies themselves this the breakdawn

185 Slouchers with 22 of them being Juggernauts
25 Crawlers of various varieties
12 Fast attack Zombies
10 Thinkers
6 Pattern Zombies
6 Mock Zombies
6 Impersonator
Pretty Zombies I would say make up 20% of the overall in the hordes and are spread out with other variants except crawlers. Not going to roll up exact stats since this is a geral scenario to begin with nor am i posting data from the books because its not allowed on forums.

[Zer0 Kay]

Vampires are listed as being supernaturally fast... though the stats don't show that IIRC though the fast attack zombies are fast I don't think they're inhumanly, blur when they move, fast. But again the Vampires stats don't reflect that bit of fluff so we'll ignore that.

Now if the zombies are supernatural undead then they should be able to damage vampires... on the other hand if you've picked that they are "natural" undead caused by contagion rather than magic they can't damage vampires.

I don't remember do all of the zombies have SN PS? If they don't the vamps do and they'd just be knocking heads off left and right and picking up whole zombies to use as improvized blunt weapons to knock heads off.

Finally... if the vampires got mobbed what is stopping them from turning to mist and just picking the pile apart from the top? Or if everything hits the fan why wouldn't they mist and wait that way?

[The Beast]

Nothing DR zombies have can kill a vampire. At best they could beat on a vampire until it was imobilized, and keep it there until the sun came up, but that's it.

[ZINO]

Alright despite the other variations I am going have all vampires be secondary. Fell placing a vampire Lord/Master would be over powering and Wild Vampires wouldn't have enough guile due to their primal instincts to fight til death to survive a zombie horde. other Variants like Wampyr wouldn't be feasible as well.

As for the Zombies themselves this the breakdawn

185 Slouchers with 22 of them being Juggernauts
25 Crawlers of various varieties
12 Fast attack Zombies
10 Thinkers
6 Pattern Zombies
6 Mock Zombies
6 Impersonator
Pretty Zombies I would say make up 20% of the overall in the hordes and are spread out with other variants except crawlers. Not going to roll up exact stats since this is a geral scenario to begin with nor am i posting data from the books because its not allowed on forums.

How many secondary vampires ? then I will say if they can make alive

[Zer0 Kay]

Alright despite the other variations I am going have all vampires be secondary. Fell placing a vampire Lord/Master would be over powering and Wild Vampires wouldn't have enough guile due to their primal instincts to fight til death to survive a zombie horde. other Variants like Wampyr wouldn't be feasible as well.

As for the Zombies themselves this the breakdawn

185 Slouchers with 22 of them being Juggernauts
25 Crawlers of various varieties
12 Fast attack Zombies
10 Thinkers
6 Pattern Zombies
6 Mock Zombies
6 Impersonator
Pretty Zombies I would say make up 20% of the overall in the hordes and are spread out with other variants except crawlers. Not going to roll up exact stats since this is a geral scenario to begin with nor am i posting data from the books because its not allowed on forums.

You make no sense, what does primal instinct causing them to retreat from a loosing battle (that is what I read from your statement of not have enough gile...) have to do with anything? Why would wild vampires have to fight to the DEATH in order to survive, that statement especially doesn't make sense.

Hey anyone is there anywhere that says they can not rest in one of their other forms? So why couldn't they find a crack in the between some cement and the ground and slumber there as mist?

[auyl]

I tend to think that it would be a draw, for the first night anyway. Zombies would swarm the vampire threatening to rip it apart and leaving it out for the sun to roast. IMO anyway. A vampire would never allow that to happen and would use the various shape shifting abilities, mist form for one, to escape. The zombies wouldn't win in a one on one fight but using typical zombie swarm tactics they would at least scare the vampire off. That doesn't stop a vampire from coming back the next night and doing more damage however.

[The Beast]

You're all also forgeting that DR zombies go after "lifeforce" and that vampires are undead. Vamps wouldn't have any lifeforce for the zombies to see, so they wouldn't initiate any attacks on the vamps, unless directed by a priest (or maybe a thinker). To a DR zombie a vampire is no different than a car.

[auyl]

You're all also forgeting that DR zombies go after "lifeforce" and that vampires are undead. Vamps wouldn't have any lifeforce for the zombies to see, so they wouldn't initiate any attacks on the vamps, unless directed by a priest (or maybe a thinker). To a DR zombie a vampire is no different than a car.

True, however, the DR book itself specifically says that this lifeforce is PPE. If that is the case then vampires, who have PPE, would stand out to zombies as well. BUT, I do agree with you in the end since the plain and simple fact, they're undead, they shouldn't have any lifeforce.

[The Beast]

You're all also forgeting that DR zombies go after "lifeforce" and that vampires are undead. Vamps wouldn't have any lifeforce for the zombies to see, so they wouldn't initiate any attacks on the vamps, unless directed by a priest (or maybe a thinker). To a DR zombie a vampire is no different than a car.

True, however, the DR book itself specifically says that this lifeforce is PPE. If that is the case then vampires, who have PPE, would stand out to zombies as well. BUT, I do agree with you in the end since the plain and simple fact, they're undead, they shouldn't have any lifeforce.

The more recent books deemphisized the lifeforce being PPE...

[auyl]

You're all also forgeting that DR zombies go after "lifeforce" and that vampires are undead. Vamps wouldn't have any lifeforce for the zombies to see, so they wouldn't initiate any attacks on the vamps, unless directed by a priest (or maybe a thinker). To a DR zombie a vampire is no different than a car.

True, however, the DR book itself specifically says that this lifeforce is PPE. If that is the case then vampires, who have PPE, would stand out to zombies as well. BUT, I do agree with you in the end since the plain and simple fact, they're undead, they shouldn't have any lifeforce.

The more recent books deemphisized the lifeforce being PPE...

I guess we'd have to agree to disagree on this point. I didn't get that from the more recent books and if that's true it doesn't fit well into the whole picture that is painted with DR zombies drive to feed and what makes them find their food sources. That's IMO though.

[Ronin Shinobi]

You make no sense, what does primal instinct causing them to retreat from a loosing battle (that is what I read from your statement of not have enough gile...) have to do with anything? Why would wild vampires have to fight to the DEATH in order to survive, that statement especially doesn't make sense.

Hey anyone is there anywhere that says they can not rest in one of their other forms? So why couldn't they find a crack in the between some cement and the ground and slumber there as mist?

Because were talking about creature who's own kin think of as nothing more than attack dogs. Even the new vampire kingdom book states as well as references in other books like Night bane and Western Empire PFRPG source books hat wild vampires lack organization and or self control. Relying more on instinct than tactics to win a battle. Placing them in there I would think that their 2ndary cohorts will use them more as attack dogs, sending them in to stall the horde while they set up or even escape, leaving them to be slaughtered. So over all placing them as a mixed group would be pointless.

[Zer0 Kay]

You make no sense, what does primal instinct causing them to retreat from a loosing battle (that is what I read from your statement of not have enough gile...) have to do with anything? Why would wild vampires have to fight to the DEATH in order to survive, that statement especially doesn't make sense.

Hey anyone is there anywhere that says they can not rest in one of their other forms? So why couldn't they find a crack in the between some cement and the ground and slumber there as mist?

Because were talking about creature who's own kin think of as nothing more than attack dogs. Even the new vampire kingdom book states as well as references in other books like Night bane and Western Empire PFRPG source books hat wild vampires lack organization and or self control. Relying more on instinct than tactics to win a battle. Placing them in there I would think that their 2ndary cohorts will use them more as attack dogs, sending them in to stall the horde while they set up or even escape, leaving them to be slaughtered. So over all placing them as a mixed group would be pointless.

Okay still missing your point. If they are opperating on instinct alone most animals only fight to the death when backed into a corner they can't escape from. Wild vampires won't charge a mechanized unit head on they'd prowl and attack them. You seem to think that instinct is completely lacking in tactics. The only thing Instinct lacks is strategy, the ability to see and fight in the big picture. Tactically a tiger is better than your average human or even group of humans heck even a pack of wolves is better at tactics than a group of average land bound humans . Zombies on the other hand will walk right into a running combine if they sense "food" behind it. So the match up with zombies vs. wild vampires is still tiger vs. a bunch of villagers or at best tiger vs. hunter armed with a knife.

If there life is actually threatened though they can and will still run and hide. Besides since the zombies have nothing that can harm the vamps if they can remain calm under a pile of zeeks, all they have to do is wait for sundown, turn to mist and leave.

You seem to discredit an attack dog. An attack dog is trained well enough to know that the threat when facing a larger pack of wild dogs, and in this case with power difference it would be wild Chihuahuas, the real threat is the alpha. So they'd go for the one pointing. In the case of vamps as attack dogs... if they are used as such, attack dogs are better used with a pack master. Letting attack dogs run wild and do whatever is a missuse of assets. So placing them (the vamps) as a mixed group would actually ensure the destruction of the zombies even if they are all wild except one secondary master, the zeeks are pretty much dead.

[Ronin Shinobi]

I think your misreading what I said. Your assuming that I'm saying they don't have any tactic at all. Never said that. I just stated that they wouldn't have enough guile and was more referring to in comparison to their 2ndary cohorts than to the zombies.. As for attack dog scenario, your again only see at what you want in the argument and failing to see that 1. Vampires, are evil by nature and 2. 2ndary vampires don't look highly to their wild kin and in the books it has stated that they will use them as cannon fodder. They are subservient to 2ndary and you don't think they won't order them to "hold" the line" just to save their own necks? Unless they actual care about them 2nday will not think twice at sacrificing a wild vamp to save them selves. I'm not doubting a wild vamps predatory skills and tactics makes them a Apex predator. But I am also factor in on not only their skills but how the 2ndary vamps are going to use them.

Regardless, not making this a colorful and highly specialized scenario with each group having different strengths with different varieties on both side. Only reason why I did that for the zombies is because I based it off the percentages in the book and in the large numbers I placed them in it would be feasible that their would be other varieties in there other than slouchers. Also 2ndary vamps are more likely to travel with other 2nddary vamps than a mixed group for hunting humanoids. If I wanted to make it detailed would have a lot better set up than this.

[Zer0 Kay]

I think your misreading what I said. Your assuming that I'm saying they don't have any tactic at all. Never said that. I just stated that they wouldn't have enough guile and was more referring to in comparison to their 2ndary cohorts than to the zombies.. As for attack dog scenario, your again only see at what you want in the argument and failing to see that 1. Vampires, are evil by nature and 2. 2ndary vampires don't look highly to their wild kin and in the books it has stated that they will use them as cannon fodder. They are subservient to 2ndary and you don't think they won't order them to "hold" the line" just to save their own necks? Unless they actual care about them 2nday will not think twice at sacrificing a wild vamp to save them selves. I'm not doubting a wild vamps predatory skills and tactics makes them a Apex predator. But I am also factor in on not only their skills but how the 2ndary vamps are going to use them.

Regardless, not making this a colorful and highly specialized scenario with each group having different strengths with different varieties on both side. Only reason why I did that for the zombies is because I based it off the percentages in the book and in the large numbers I placed them in it would be feasible that their would be other varieties in there other than slouchers. Also 2ndary vamps are more likely to travel with other 2nddary vamps than a mixed group for hunting humanoids. If I wanted to make it detailed would have a lot better set up than this.

Okay... but my entire point is reguardless, even if the 2ndary vamps said laydown with your bellys up and none of the seconds broke their hold (which they must be able to do for the optional PC choice), the 2ndary vampires would still survive because the zeeks can't do anything to them. If SOMEHOW the zeeks figured out that they could drag them into the light then maybe they could win but in order for an epiphany of that magnatude in a zeek vs. vamp battle they're would have to be something smarter than a thinker.

Even if your evil your not going to waste assets. Now don't get me wrong they won't be upset if they die and they won't even bat an eye at sending them into danger but if something can be done in such a way that you can reuse that asset then it would be done. If the secondary who also wouldn't be harmed by zeeks could use the wild vamps to win the day, that is what they're going to do. They aren't just going to tell them to go in and lie down to distract them. The zombies are culling their food supply and that is bad. No matter how you put it the vampires would win. Stronger, faster, smarter and that is just the wild vampires.

So results:

Tons of zeeks vs. pack of wild vampires = zeek annihilation at best stalemate
Tons of zeeks vs. 1 2ndary and a pack of wild vampires = zeek annihilation
Tons of zeeks vs. a secondary vampire or higher = zeek annihilation

So that is 0:3 or 1:3 ratio for vamps.

[Ronin Shinobi]

Thats very true but I would assume thinkers would be able give some balance to Zombie's side. Most will observe and watch their Zombie brethren being slaughtered noting the vamps patter. Like avoiding or getting hurt by sunlit windows, or a leaky pipe, or a fallen beam because its casting a shadow of a cross. If they can figure out the vamps are vulnerable to them then they can coordinate zombies to use those weakness against the vamps, like containing one at a window and letting it fry.

[The Beast]

Thats very true but I would assume thinkers would be able give some balance to Zombie's side. Most will observe and watch their Zombie brethren being slaughtered noting the vamps patter. Like avoiding or getting hurt by sunlit windows, or a leaky pipe, or a fallen beam because its casting a shadow of a cross. If they can figure out the vamps are vulnerable to them then they can coordinate zombies to use those weakness against the vamps, like containing one at a window and letting it fry.

That doesn't hurt them anymore.

[Zer0 Kay]

Thats very true but I would assume thinkers would be able give some balance to Zombie's side. Most will observe and watch their Zombie brethren being slaughtered noting the vamps patter. Like avoiding or getting hurt by sunlit windows, or a leaky pipe, or a fallen beam because its casting a shadow of a cross. If they can figure out the vamps are vulnerable to them then they can coordinate zombies to use those weakness against the vamps, like containing one at a window and letting it fry.

K W/E cuz thinker zeeks can track the "blinding" movement of vamps because they suddenly stop when near a beam of sunlight or a dripping pipe and tiptoe around it in slow motion, just to help make it obvious for them. How ever you want to play the thinkers. There is a large difference between "Groaaaaan" (climb the truck from the front), "Groannnn" (Go that way... because there is a machine gun nest over there) and "Grogrogragrogroaaann" (my analysis of the rapid, fluid and nearly invisible movement of this food shows that their course never seems to cross the light or pass under that leaky pipe... even though each movement is efficient and leads from one of our clusters over to a less dense cluster, allowing the previous cluster to dissipate as they shamble over, just to have the food blur over to another less dense cluster... but they're definately not going through the light or the water... though that just may be chance since they don't actually avoid it to get to another cluster... but hey I'm a thinker, I'm the Einstien of you foot draggers, I'm the Rommel to their Alexander, their brains are belong to us!!!!) and yes that was all supposed to be one rediculous run on sentence.

[Ronin Shinobi]

Okay your honestly taking this way too personally, not to mention seriously because it sounds like your getting heated over something that's just suppose to be a fun what if. First of all, I'm not saying thinkers are these great generals that can look at a situation and devise military tactics. If that was case dead reign would have been completely taken over by the zombies with armies of them able to take down safe havens long ago, not to mention never being subservient to a any human, zombie master or other wise and even forming a structured society.

However they are smart enough to do simple things like shoot a gun and open doors and can recognize patters as well as get other zombies to move and attack in a certain direction. They may not give complex commands but they can get masses to to move and push a vamp towards a sun lit window, or even pick up a cross and hold it if seen vamp cringe in fear from it. Also before you write your rebuttal those are blanketed scenario and I know vamp can use their powers to avoid getting pushed into a window or move fast enough to take zombies arm off so that cross would fall, etc, etc.

All I'm saying is that thinkers side should not be underestimated.

[Zer0 Kay]

Okay your honestly taking this way too personally, not to mention seriously because it sounds like your getting heated over something that's just suppose to be a fun what if. First of all, I'm not saying thinkers are these great generals that can look at a situation and devise military tactics. If that was case dead reign would have been completely taken over by the zombies with armies of them able to take down safe havens long ago, not to mention never being subservient to a any human, zombie master or other wise and even forming a structured society.

However they are smart enough to do simple things like shoot a gun and open doors and can recognize patters as well as get other zombies to move and attack in a certain direction. They may not give complex commands but they can get masses to to move and push a vamp towards a sun lit window, or even pick up a cross and hold it if seen vamp cringe in fear from it. Also before you write your rebuttal those are blanketed scenario and I know vamp can use their powers to avoid getting pushed into a window or move fast enough to take zombies arm off so that cross would fall, etc, etc.

All I'm saying is that thinkers side should not be underestimated.

I'm not taking it personally I just don't get why you'd think that zeeks have a chance against vampires. I thought the long diatribe for the groan was actually kind of funny. As far as the holy symbol, it isn't so much the move fast enough for a zombie arm to be taken off with the cross... but how would a thinker ever find out about the cross? The new Rifts VK book says any holy symbol but it still has to be brandished so at what point would a thinker, in this situation have a chance to see someone holding a cross or star of David or, Thors hammer or anything to ward off vampires? The ONLY reason I may be getting a little ticked is because a zeek thinker doing what you suggest would require knowledge the zeeks wouldn't have and therefore it would be classified as player knowledge. If your not going to take it serious enough to at least apply the way the zeeks and vamps should act then the op is moot as we can get as rediculous as we want... about 30 percent of the zeeks for some reason are severely impaled with dozens of dozens of pointy sticks allowing them to stake the vamps on a successful critical hold. Another 50 percent of them have exposed bone stumps on their arms that somehow were coated in silver and finally the other 10 percent are especially pattern zombies all like grabbing things and sitting in a beam of sunlight to pet them. If we keep going back and forth like that with me or someone else saying that the vamps could... then it is pointless, not fun, pointless.

Oh, so any way, playing with that kind of player knowledge reminds me of a DR GM I had that used player knowledge in the extreme allowing an idiot NPC to be a reoccuring villain.

[Ronin Shinobi]

I don't mind a debate but your last comment did come off to me as chastising as if your getting frustrated with argument. To answer your question of brandishing remember there are over 200 zombies in that factory. You don't think any of them are going to be wearing something of their religion on them? Sure you can say that it could have easily had gotten ripped off in a struggles when they were getting killed but that's not always the case. Thinker probably at first just follow and use who ever has said symbol to go in. If it notices in struggle that said symbol touches vamp in some way hurting it them it's going to realize that it hurts them and use it for him self.

[Zer0 Kay]

I don't mind a debate but your last comment did come off to me as chastising as if your getting frustrated with argument. To answer your question of brandishing remember there are over 200 zombies in that factory. You don't think any of them are going to be wearing something of their religion on them? Sure you can say that it could have easily had gotten ripped off in a struggles when they were getting killed but that's not always the case. Thinker probably at first just follow and use who ever has said symbol to go in. If it notices in struggle that said symbol touches vamp in some way hurting it them it's going to realize that it hurts them and use it for him self.

Wearing does not count as brandishing

bran·dish
   [bran-dish] Show IPA

verb (used with object)
1.
to shake or wave, as a weapon; flourish: Brandishing his sword, he rode into battle.

So unless it is held in their hands hand purposefully used to try to keep the vamps at bay it doesn't work. In canon it states "A cross held firmly in hand can be used to force a vampire away. Wearing it around the neck protects one from the vampire's bite." That may have been changed with the revised Rifts: WB1 however, the original does not state that wearing one around the neck protects you from being decapitated by a vampire ninjay chop to the neck nor should a vampire judeday chop to the torso of a zeek wearing a t-shirt with a cross prevent said vampire's judeday chop from severing the spine.

Also I believe that in the revised WB1 it states that the weilder of the holy symbol must have belief in it (I'd need confirmation for that though) as far as I know zeeks no longer have personal beliefs physical or metaphysical so it wouldn't work. So either by WB1 original with its requirement to, in more simpler terms, brandish the object or in the revised WB1 requires both brandishing and faith of the brandisher in the object (unconfirmed, cuz I don't own it) it wouldn't work. So WB1 original crosses for zeeks if they are pattern zombies that did that... yeah cuz that is common but absolutely no crosses or any other holy symbols for the zeeks according to (unconfirmed) WB1 revised. No sunlight because the wilds based on instinct would rather run than die so would turn to mist before it allowed itself to be pushed into the sunlight.

[dargo83]

me and my rpg group were think of this very topic after we watched the episode of deadliest warior. after hearing all of the bickering in this thread i have decided to run a several night game where all of the players are the vamps. i was wondering if anyone would be able to give there 2 cents on a few things about the vamps like there ability to turn into mist, wolf, or bat should they be able to do that. or should i do like in the episode where there super strong and super fast.

[Zer0 Kay]

me and my rpg group were think of this very topic after we watched the episode of deadliest warior. after hearing all of the bickering in this thread i have decided to run a several night game where all of the players are the vamps. i was wondering if anyone would be able to give there 2 cents on a few things about the vamps like there ability to turn into mist, wolf, or bat should they be able to do that. or should i do like in the episode where there super strong and super fast.

Dude if your testing the Deadliest Warrior thing then do the Deadliest Warrior thing, if your doing Palladium Books than give them Palladium Books powers.

BTW something no one mentioned in many places in Palladiumbooks it states that bone counts as wood for staking and damaging vampires. I'm sure more than a few zeeks have exposed bone, but instead of a called shot at close range to impale since the zeeks aren't that smart or rather since they wouldn't know to do that, I'd allow a double crit or maybe even a crit and a 14+ to stake them... maybe... if I wanted the players to feel fear. It would be the only way they could damage the vamps. Not the staking, the exposed bone.

[dargo83]

not true it says they can be hurt by supernatural creatures or things with with supernatural strenght so zeds could hurt vamps.

[Zer0 Kay]

not true it says they can be hurt by supernatural creatures or things with with supernatural strenght so zeds could hurt vamps.

Reference please? All I see is the mention of Dragons and then only because they are creatures of magic. I don't have the DR books, are all the zombies in possession of SN PS? Finally I don't give zeeks in my game SNPS unless they're juggernaughts because the zeds are caused by disease not something of mystic nature, which also means if they have no muscle on a limb it is useless... in my game, however Kevin leaves the cause open and if it isn't a mystic cause they shouldn't have SNPS.

[cornholioprime]

No contest, Palladium Vampires win yet again.

The most 'feral' Wild Vampire has waaay more smarts than does even a Dead Reign Thinker (doesn't even know how to load/re-load a weapon). People here are, I believe, mistaking "wild nature" with "stupidity," and as has been explained in the definitive source of information for Palladium Vampires, Wilds are quite smart -just ask the mortal sheep whose defenses the Wilds routinely bypass and overcome in the course of having a night of "fun" at their expense.

Also, if we are talking Dead Reign undead...they don't have Supernatural Strength, aren't conditionally invulnerable like nearly all other Palladium Undead, and regenerate a lot more slowly than do Palladium Vampires.

[Zer0 Kay]

No contest, Palladium Vampires win yet again.

The most 'feral' Wild Vampire has waaay more smarts than does even a Dead Reign Thinker (doesn't even know how to load/re-load a weapon). People here are, I believe, mistaking "wild nature" with "stupidity," and as has been explained in the definitive source of information for Palladium Vampires, Wilds are quite smart -just ask the mortal sheep whose defenses the Wilds routinely bypass and overcome in the course of having a night of "fun" at their expense.

Also, if we are talking Dead Reign undead...they don't have Supernatural Strength, aren't conditionally invulnerable like nearly all other Palladium Undead, and regenerate a lot more slowly than do Palladium Vampires.

Not that the PB Vampires would have to worry about regenerating... unless that statment about bone being a substitute for wood works.