River Islands

[Trent]

I know zombies cant swim but can walk along the bottom of bodies of water . But in rivers of decent size and/or depth their bottom depths are subject to strong currents that would be very likely to carry them well past their target . With that in mind one would have to think many of the 100s of river islands across the nation , a good number with towns and small river based industry on them and connected to the main land by narrow and easily defendable bridges , would make excellent safe havens . The banks of these islands tend to be high , rocky and steep adding extra protection . And any industry will probably have high fences around it . I know of at least on such island that has an abandoned army corps of engineers site from when a dam and bridge project was being carried out . Any thoughts ?

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

1st thought is that if you're spotted from shore and a moan goes out, that swift current or not the possibility remains of a convergence that would essentially create a zombie 'log jam'. Now they can get to you. Now you're boned.

[Trent]

1st thought is that if you're spotted from shore and a moan goes out, that swift current or not the possibility remains of a convergence that would essentially create a zombie 'log jam'. Now they can get to you. Now you're boned.

The convergence can happen anywhere . But water can block and dilute scent and distance could put you out of other sensory range . Plus current and gravity would not allow that bridge or log jam to build up or be maintained by clumsy zombies over a distance of 100s of feet . Plus in the time it took them to follow in the mighty ant's footsteps you could pick them off with long range weapons and collapse their dead meat construction . Add too that many of these islands are off the beaten path and large numbers would not often be around . But if people are going to pick apart every idea and effort then the game (and posting in these forums) is meaningless as NO place is PERFECTLY safe . Sorry to waste your time and Im done here .

[The Oh So Amazing Nate]

Eeeaaaaaassssyyy there big fella. You asked for thoughts. I gave you my thoughts. I didn't bash you or say it wasn't a valid idea. Geez o pete, if anything your reply trumped mine as to why it would work. No reason to get your panties in a wad.

Seriously though, if you didn't want to know what I, or other people, thought then you shouldn't have asked

Any thoughts ?

.

What you should have instead said was, "Everyone tell me how awesome of an idea this is, and if you don't agree then don't reply."

[Tirisilex]

I dont know if Zombies can walk along the bottom. I think they might float down stream.

[ronekiln]

I wouldn't intend for defenses to "stop" zombies, but to slow them down enough for me and others to deal with them. A river would be an additional layer of permanently maintained defense.

I know in Dead Reign there is allegedly a shortage of weapons and ammo, but most people I know were raised with firearms and are very aware of how incredibly common both weapons and ammo are (I know this can be region and social group dependent). Our games don't have a shortage of ammo. So we don't look for impregnable fortresses. We look for ways to slow down and snarl them up that can effectively surround enough land to keep us and livestock safe. A ditch/embankment topped with a hedge backed by a good fence is enough for me.

A decent sized island in a large river? Hell yeah.

[Tirisilex]

I live in a Tourist town in NH.. There are alot of Hunters here. So plenty of weapons.. Walmart has guns.. Pawn Shop.. Practically every other house has a gun of some sort. I knew a gamer who kept handguns for a side hobby.. I know of a few people that keep an arsenal of bladed weapons in their trunk all the time.There is a marksman club in the next town over containing 1500 members. I knew a Tatooist armed to the teeth with weapons.. There is a head shop full of Bladed weapons as well as an Army surplus store full of Bladed weapons even a Zombie Defense kit. There is about 5 Hunting stores and 4 Gunsmiths. I know one Gunsmith who has mula weapons.. AK 47, Sub Machine guns and lots of others. So the idea of a weapon shortage is unrealistic. This town could probably hold off a zombie outbreak. Hunting Parties would gather together in their trucks and gun down any zombies.

It would be alot like the end of "Night of the Living dead."

[Trent]

I live in a Tourist town in NH.. There are alot of Hunters here. So plenty of weapons.. Walmart has guns.. Pawn Shop.. Practically every other house has a gun of some sort. I knew a gamer who kept handguns for a side hobby.. I know of a few people that keep an arsenal of bladed weapons in their trunk all the time.There is a marksman club in the next town over containing 1500 members. I knew a Tatooist armed to the teeth with weapons.. There is a head shop full of Bladed weapons as well as an Army surplus store full of Bladed weapons even a Zombie Defense kit. There is about 5 Hunting stores and 4 Gunsmiths. I know one Gunsmith who has mula weapons.. AK 47, Sub Machine guns and lots of others. So the idea of a weapon shortage is unrealistic. This town could probably hold off a zombie outbreak. Hunting Parties would gather together in their trucks and gun down any zombies.

It would be alot like the end of "Night of the Living dead."

I live in the heart of the western Kentucky coal fields . No gun or ammo shortage here . Also lived in several places across north america and there is no shortage in Phoenix , Houston , Detroit , Chicago , Nashville , LA , New Orleans . . . . . . .

[Tirisilex]

I think.. Like I said before.. The problem isn't the fact there is a shortage of weapons but a shortage of people to use them.. Some survivors could have no clue on how to use a gun. Like a Hairdresser.. Or maybe Room Service or something. Finding weapons isn't a hard thing to do.

Why did the military fail to hold it off? Because Most were Inoculated and turned into zombies before they could do anything about it.

[azazel1024]

Its a better option than setting up on land, sure. Strong currents maybe, but what about the zombie that gets washed down stream from somewhere else? I think you'd still get zombies at some point.

If you look at most river islands, most do not have cliffs around them. Maybe the tinniest handful. Most are fairly shallow shelving. Some have rocky beaches. Others are legit rock. Most wouldn't be that difficult for a zombie to be able to get up on. Some, sure, but likely the minority. Now, if you want to go around picking the best river island and have the weeks necessary to find a suitable location driving all over the country to find a good one, by all means.

Just finding the nearest one is also a viable option and would likely be better than setting up on dry land elsewhere though.

[Trent]

Its a better option than setting up on land, sure. Strong currents maybe, but what about the zombie that gets washed down stream from somewhere else? I think you'd still get zombies at some point.

If you look at most river islands, most do not have cliffs around them. Maybe the tinniest handful. Most are fairly shallow shelving. Some have rocky beaches. Others are legit rock. Most wouldn't be that difficult for a zombie to be able to get up on. Some, sure, but likely the minority. Now, if you want to go around picking the best river island and have the weeks necessary to find a suitable location driving all over the country to find a good one, by all means.

Just finding the nearest one is also a viable option and would likely be better than setting up on dry land elsewhere though.

No place will be perfectly safe . And most that wash down stream will probably be carried past by the currents . Zombies would not be very strong or graceful swimmers or for that matter bottom walkers . Sure some will get through but even then will be fairly easy to spot and take out by a watchful patrol . As far as the island banks , sure we are not talking shear cliff side fortress but the banks in most deep or fast moving rivers will be carved steep depending on what part of the country your in . In this area they can be very steep if not a straight drop . Im not talking hundreds or even dozens of feet but even 5 to 10 feet can slow them (what few would make it to the island across currents) down long enough to be delt with . Added barriers and defences can be easy to create . This area of Ky and Tn (westeren) has an abundance of rivers that are filled with long narrow and rocky islands . I grew up in such environments and some of these are a pain to gain access to (and ive been rock climbing for a few decades) but great to explore and fish from . We have the Kentucky , Tenn , Cumberland , Green , Ohio , and Mississippi rivers all very close by . The ohio near cincinnati is banked by cliffs . Plus It could all give the typical zombie story a new atmosphere and direction . River Rat style . As far as time spent you will have to search for ANY place safe enough . And alot of it will already be done for you . Internet may be gone but there are still books . Tourist maps . Atlas . Look at Kentucky and Barkley lakes (river fed and drained) at Land Between the Lakes or the Green river at mammoth cave national recreation area too .

[azazel1024]

Oh no, I think a river island is an awesome idea. I am just saying, not all are created equal or are necessarily very hard to access, even for a zombie. A river island is often still easier, because short of mangroves, most have "beaches" which are fairly cleared of vegetation, so it would be easy(ish) to spot a zombie crawling/shambling up out of the water, supposing they could access it.

I guess to me the biggest downside are, at least around me, there are not a whole ton of particularly large river islands. Sure, plenty and large enough to hole up on, but we aren't talking multi-acre islands in most places, more like in the hundreds to a couple of thousand square feet.

Where I live I'd be having a mind for Kent Island in the Chesepeake. It would take a moderate to large sized group to hold, especially with all that coast line, but I bet ~100 people could hold it pretty well (supposing no bandit/retro groups tried to dispute, then you'd need a lot more). Only two access points, bay bridge and kent narrows bridge on either side of the island. Easy enough to barricade them and you might want to drop a span (as you don't need the East and West bound spans on both sides up, just one each side, or heck even just one bridge or none if you want to use boat/ferry to get on/off the island for scavaging).

Kent Island is very large. I don't recall exact area, but it is something like 30-40 miles^2. Its around 5 wide and 6-7 long ovular. It was actually the first landing place in Maryland back around 1630 when settlers came to what later became the state and I think the first settlement too. Lots of farms, a resonable amount of other infrastructure you could salvage/use. A nice sized hospital on the Eastern shore just a couple of miles from the Kent Narrows bridge you could raid for lots of medical supplies.

Not a small group under taking, but the PERFECT place for a safe haven. Lots of marianas too, so lots of boats you can use for salvage/raids along the Chesapeake coast line and lots of stuff nearby for salvage (DC, as the Potomac is navigable that far up with a fair sized boat. Arlington across from DC. Lots of towns further south on the Potomac. Baltimore, Anapolis, dozens of little to big sized towns all up and down the coast of the Chesapeake on both sides. You have Pax River naval air station as well as Norfolk/New Port News and also Aberdeen proving grounds all on the water or within a few miles of the water within a day's sail of Kent island).

[Tirisilex]

There is a small river island near me. The river around the island gets only 3 feet deep. But the current is kind of strong. Zombies could prob make it across.

[Trent]

Oh no, I think a river island is an awesome idea. I am just saying, not all are created equal or are necessarily very hard to access, even for a zombie. A river island is often still easier, because short of mangroves, most have "beaches" which are fairly cleared of vegetation, so it would be easy(ish) to spot a zombie crawling/shambling up out of the water, supposing they could access it.

I guess to me the biggest downside are, at least around me, there are not a whole ton of particularly large river islands. Sure, plenty and large enough to hole up on, but we aren't talking multi-acre islands in most places, more like in the hundreds to a couple of thousand square feet.

Where I live I'd be having a mind for Kent Island in the Chesepeake. It would take a moderate to large sized group to hold, especially with all that coast line, but I bet ~100 people could hold it pretty well (supposing no bandit/retro groups tried to dispute, then you'd need a lot more). Only two access points, bay bridge and kent narrows bridge on either side of the island. Easy enough to barricade them and you might want to drop a span (as you don't need the East and West bound spans on both sides up, just one each side, or heck even just one bridge or none if you want to use boat/ferry to get on/off the island for scavaging).

Kent Island is very large. I don't recall exact area, but it is something like 30-40 miles^2. Its around 5 wide and 6-7 long ovular. It was actually the first landing place in Maryland back around 1630 when settlers came to what later became the state and I think the first settlement too. Lots of farms, a resonable amount of other infrastructure you could salvage/use. A nice sized hospital on the Eastern shore just a couple of miles from the Kent Narrows bridge you could raid for lots of medical supplies.

Not a small group under taking, but the PERFECT place for a safe haven. Lots of marianas too, so lots of boats you can use for salvage/raids along the Chesapeake coast line and lots of stuff nearby for salvage (DC, as the Potomac is navigable that far up with a fair sized boat. Arlington across from DC. Lots of towns further south on the Potomac. Baltimore, Anapolis, dozens of little to big sized towns all up and down the coast of the Chesapeake on both sides. You have Pax River naval air station as well as Norfolk/New Port News and also Aberdeen proving grounds all on the water or within a few miles of the water within a day's sail of Kent island).

You could fortify a small area on the island and grow from there maby . As you scavenge for supplies you are gonna run across others looking for a safe place . If you got there early you could grow and develop as fast or faster than any forming bandit group or wacko cult in the area . Its the people who keep calm minds and act fast in the first chaos of the wave that have the best chance to dig in and survive long term . Americans best chance for a come back may be on the grounds of early settlers .

[Trent]

There is a small river island near me. The river around the island gets only 3 feet deep. But the current is kind of strong. Zombies could prob make it across.

Ya the river island may not work every where . Smaller rivers and fewer islands in them the further west past the mississippi you go . And out there they tend to be shallow . But still you would have a source of fresh water and a ares of clear sight to see any thing comeing . Plus it would slow them down . Even then there may be better spots to build on .

[cornholioprime]

Just build a smooth, fairly tall moat encircling the 'upstream' half of the island, which both encircles that half of the island AND flares out at each end (kind of like a very gently sloping "V" with the bottom of the letter pointed against the river flow), with no handholds whatsoever.

That way, even if Zombies do float to the island from upstream, they have virtually no chance of being able to get to the island -the currents would send them right past the island (they won't be smart enough to swim against the current and towards the island to get to it.

[whassupman03]

Hello...

Just build a smooth, fairly tall moat encircling the 'upstream' half of the island, which both encircles that half of the island AND flares out at each end (kind of like a very gently sloping "V" with the bottom of the letter pointed against the river flow), with no handholds whatsoever.

That way, even if Zombies do float to the island from upstream, they have virtually no chance of being able to get to the island -the currents would send them right past the island (they won't be smart enough to swim against the current and towards the island to get to it.

Not that it might or might not count as a riverine island, but let's look at this take on Liberty Island in New York. It might be a useful take on the riverine island concept, and in addition, one might look at these artificial islands available from the same source. Please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good afternoon.

whassupman03

[Trent]

In the new book it talks about old forts across the US . Most in state or national parks (great resources). And MANY are on river or coastal islands . Usually removed from large populations yet with small tourist towns near by .

[Pepsi Jedi]

Ehh.. I don't really see it as realistic. 1) Most rivers don't flow THAT FAST. Currents that one can swim in and ones that undead creatures can walk through are different things. We need to keep our heads above water and breathe. The Zombies don't. 2) Of those that 'are' that fast, it's not like there's just islands in the middle of them that could support populations. People actually take a rather alarming amount of food and supplies to keep going. So if you 'do' have a 'river island' it's likely not going to be big enough to support more than a couple of people. If that. So you'll need to exit your island on a regular basis to forage for food and supplies. Once you leave you're subject to predation same as always.
3) There's no real place to 'run'. Sure you can evac the island but that defeats the purpose. What if the zombies do get on the island. You're absolute best bet is jumping a boat on the down river side and floating away, but again that puts you right back into the mix of those not on islands. 4) Zombies would still end up on the island. If A) The water is fast enough to sweep them away, and B) They come at you at a 90degree angle to the island then yes, they'll likely get swept away.. but what happens when the 100s of zombies that encounter the river UPSTREAM get sweapt down river and smack right into the 'top' of your island. If they fell in 100 yards or 1 mile up stream they could just be swept right ONTO your island as the water carries them down stream. Then you have zombies crawling out of the wood work. 5) It leaves you open to human predation as well. Sure you can fortify on the island but you have the added problem of getting the fortification supplies TO the island. Remember. Fast moving water+Heavy supplies will make this difficult. You'd have to bring in most of the things you'd use for fortification. By boat? Hope you have one that can carry all those heavy supplies and fight that fast current and can more on the island and offload. Even if you do, you're not hard to find and if bad humans come a calling you're left with the one option of hoping you can get to the downstream boats to get away. Bad humans would be smart enough to sink those before advancing on up onto the island.

So.. while not the worst idea in the world, there's a number of complications that keep it from being a perfect solution.

[Trent]

Ehh.. I don't really see it as realistic. 1) Most rivers don't flow THAT FAST. Currents that one can swim in and ones that undead creatures can walk through are different things. We need to keep our heads above water and breathe. The Zombies don't. 2) Of those that 'are' that fast, it's not like there's just islands in the middle of them that could support populations. People actually take a rather alarming amount of food and supplies to keep going. So if you 'do' have a 'river island' it's likely not going to be big enough to support more than a couple of people. If that. So you'll need to exit your island on a regular basis to forage for food and supplies. Once you leave you're subject to predation same as always.
3) There's no real place to 'run'. Sure you can evac the island but that defeats the purpose. What if the zombies do get on the island. You're absolute best bet is jumping a boat on the down river side and floating away, but again that puts you right back into the mix of those not on islands. 4) Zombies would still end up on the island. If A) The water is fast enough to sweep them away, and B) They come at you at a 90degree angle to the island then yes, they'll likely get swept away.. but what happens when the 100s of zombies that encounter the river UPSTREAM get sweapt down river and smack right into the 'top' of your island. If they fell in 100 yards or 1 mile up stream they could just be swept right ONTO your island as the water carries them down stream. Then you have zombies crawling out of the wood work. 5) It leaves you open to human predation as well. Sure you can fortify on the island but you have the added problem of getting the fortification supplies TO the island. Remember. Fast moving water+Heavy supplies will make this difficult. You'd have to bring in most of the things you'd use for fortification. By boat? Hope you have one that can carry all those heavy supplies and fight that fast current and can more on the island and offload. Even if you do, you're not hard to find and if bad humans come a calling you're left with the one option of hoping you can get to the downstream boats to get away. Bad humans would be smart enough to sink those before advancing on up onto the island.

So.. while not the worst idea in the world, there's a number of complications that keep it from being a perfect solution.

If ANY safe haven is over run you will end up back in the mix with outside dead . at least a river will give you a cleared path out . As far as fortification see the part about the various forts in state and national parks across the country . Many were built on islands for a reason . Otherwise ANY safe haven will have to be fortified to be effective . These problems you have pointed out will be present in ANY safe haven . Many of these islands are connected to main land by a bridge or two . I agree that you cant just choose just any island . but there are enough out there that can be used . In the competition for safe places you will have to think out of the box and of what others have over looked

[Pepsi Jedi]

Ehh but not really. Normal save havens don't kill you if you manage to fall off your vehicle. I.E. if you're fleeing a built up safe haven on land and don't make it into the car or fall out of the car. You don't drown. You're not hampered by being in the water. Water that by the set up is so fast moving it'll throw you down river. Deep enough so that you can't just stand up and be saved. It has to be deep enough and fast moving enough to keep zombies from just wlking across, so you can't do it either.

Yes any safe haven will need foritification, but again, most of those you don't have to cross a possible lethal barrier to get to, or one that at the very least will do it's best to sink your boat trying to carry those heavy supplies to the island for the purpose of fortification. When any noise might bring zombies your way, moving stuff of that nature would need to be done quickly and efficently. Can't really do quick on a river crossing. And quick+Fast moving water+heavy things= dangerous and possible death.

No. the problems I point out won't be there for 'any' safe haven. Most safe havens you can evac through a number of ways and not be hampered. (Though there's some logic to putting your safe haven where the approach hampers people, when you do that you hamper your own egress.)

You're looking for the 'perfect storm' of situational items on your list to make this viable. With no internet, no computers and what not, that's going to be very hard to find. I mean how many people know the 'rivers' around them with such clarity and precision to know where one might find an island.

Then you have the other factors to work in.
1) You must know the rivers well enough to know of an island. That's going to be pretty rare, but hey. Maybe you went tubing every summer and had a BBQ on an island. Sure.
2) River must be -deep- enough to prevent walking to the island in question. This is not as common as one might think. Most rivers in the US aren't that deep. I.E. they're not 6 feet or deeper in a large swath. Even the Mighty Mississippi is only 3 feet deep at the headwaters. (And 200 feet at it's deepest).
3) Not only must the river be deep. It must be -deep- around your island. This is even more rare, as... islands are bits of land that stick up out of a river. like sandbars and what not, at that point the water is seldom deep, because there's land sticking up out of it. Usually gradual. I.E. ramps up from the surrounding water till it breaks surface.
Are there islands with steep banks? I'm guessing yes. But again that's a smaller subset of an already small and hard to find subset.
4) The island must be large enough to house and at least some what supply your survivor group. You need it to be big enough for shelter and to try and grow food. Sure you can say "Well we'll forage' but you have to cross the river to try it every time. That's going to be dangrous.
5) The water must be moving fast enough to sweep the zombies away as per the OP. It takes a pretty good speed to push down and sweep away a human. Uncommon? No. It's fairly common. I wouldn't say it's the 'norm' though. Most rivers can be swam in, and or across with little difficulty. Most can simply be walked across. If not in the section you are at, with in a mile or so. Just walk down stream. But still this element must be present (The strength and speed of current)
6) The previous element must not only be present in the river, but present in and around the island in question. This -is- more rare. Islands dont' often form in fast moving water. Why? because the fast moving water erodes islands and washes them away.

This is a very very specific combination of factors you need to have a viable island to even try and build your community on, and it doesn't factor in the river itself washing zombies onto your island with near endless supply.

Sure wandering zombies might eventually wander up to and around any survivor stronghold. But river's not only run right up to your front door on an island, but will end up sweeping zombies onto you ... untill there's no more zombies. The zombies fall int othe river. If it's fast moving (as stipulated) they're washed down stream. They'll hit your island. Zombies could fall in 100 yards upriver, or a mile up river or 5 miles up river or 50 miles up river. They're all coming your way.

Settlements outside of rivers aren't guaranteed this endless supply of undead poured right onto them. Zombies out side of rivers and such are free to roam this way and that. The ones falling into the river go down stream. Now they might miss your island but your island is big enough to live on, so, that's a pretty big obstacle.

If you built your survivor compound in a valley, you'd get some of that channeling effect, but not quite to the same extent.

[Trent]

Seems like every time I post on this site people have a problem with it .

[Pepsi Jedi]

Not trying to be funny or snarky in -any- way, but that's just the nature of the internet. People disagree on things. When things are posted up for conversation and people disagree, they'll do so, and tell you why. The anon nature of the internet allows people to do so in ways they can't/won't IRL, and frees them up to say things they might not in person.

In person people by and large are a lot less prone to disagree to one's face and or be confrontational. Online it's par for the course.

I can't speak for others, but just for myself. I don't 'have a problem' with what you posted. I'm not offended or being mean.

I just see tactical and logistical disadvantage as written. That said in a zombie Apoc... there's -always- going to be -some- tactical/logistical disadvantage. You just try and minimize them as best you can. (In theory)

In Reality, if a zombie rise happened, we'd all be pretty dead pretty quick. All joking aside and what not... yeah we'd be toast. lol

[eliakon]

Seems like every time I post on this site people have a problem with it .

Part of it is this game in particular
Dead Reign is pretty much a "No Win Situation" game. Outside of a practically contrived situation there just ISN'T a way to make a 'perfect' safe haven. Or even a really good one. The best that can be done is to make the best haven that you can based on what you have available, an based on your GMs play style. Since to be frank any defense possible can simply be overcome with "zombies moan, your overwhelmed by moar zombies the end."

A river island is, in my opinion, one of the better starting points for a good defense. Assuming you have a fast flowing river, and its broad enough to prevent a shore convergence you should be relatively safe (or at least as safe as its possible to be in this setting).

To be perfectly honest, with out player access to magic, ultra tech, or massive amounts of resources/labor there really isn't a plausable way to be truly safe.


So....don't take it personally Trent. Its just that in DR a lot of people see the games point as 'how to get everyone killed' and thus they see anyone's idea as to how to survive as a challenge to be destroyed.

[cawest]

this might be what your looking for
or something like it


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/trave ... hotel.html

[say652]

What about mooring a large ship(yacht or oil tanker) in the middle of a fast flowing river??
Jet skis and dingys for transport.
Still a small chance of survival but slim is better than none.

[cawest]

What about mooring a large ship(yacht or oil tanker) in the middle of a fast flowing river??
Jet skis and dingys for transport.
Still a small chance of survival but slim is better than none.

you would have to worry about them coming up the anchor lines or climbing up the sides of the ship. it would be due able only needing a few people to man a 24/7/365 guard force.

[flatline]

River islands sounds like a good idea. Of course, if you're already at the river, a decent sized sailboat might be even better if you know how to handle it.

-flatline

[whassupman03]

Hello...

What about mooring a large ship(yacht or oil tanker) in the middle of a fast flowing river??
Jet skis and dingys for transport.
Still a small chance of survival but slim is better than none.

I wouldn't know about whether or not it is a fast-flowing river, but check out the River Fal in Cornish England. During World War II, it was used as an anchorage for ships preparing for Operation Overlord, which would result in the invasion of Normandy, and in 2008 a number of merchant vessels were mothballed there during the recession until they could be put back into service.[sup]1[/sup] Personally, I reckon that similar situations could exist in other parts of the world, where ships could be used as floating safe havens (With sentries guarding the anchor lines of course... ), and there could also be support facilities established on river islands or even on the shoreline of the river, guarded by a variety of fortifications in either case. These floating safe havens and their anchorages could possibly be much safer, because the ships could be fueled up and loaded with supplies, acting as escape vehicles in case the safe haven is overwhelmed by zombies or human threat forces. Anyway, please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03

[1]: Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1304280/Fleet-mothballed-ships-Cornish-river-unlikely-tourist-attraction.html

[Josh Hilden]

I definitely consider a decent sized island as a good basis for a Safe Haven. Current near the river bed is more chaotic, the mud on the bottom would slow them down substantially, if they are sufficiently bloated with decay they'll float by, water will make them rot faster, access to fresh water... etc.

[eliakon]

A number of people have talked about the zombies walking across the bottom/climbing up lines.

What is the official canon answer of if they can/do walk across rivers/oceans?
And can they climb?

I know that in some of the various zombie genere movies/books/etc they can.....but this isn't (for example) WWZ or Walking Dead or whatever, and thus the abilities of zombies in other sources should not be considered when discussing the game. (in my opinion. I mean you can do whatever you want in your game....but to me an idea that works according to the game rules should not be shot down because of something that is not in the game rules.)

[Pepsi Jedi]

Dead Reign rather likes water zombies all told. I don't have the books open but there's a number of variants that are water based if memory serves and it's mentioned about them walking across the bottom of bodies of water in the books.

[Trent]

I grew up at the convergence of the Ohio and Mississippi rivers and wit several important rivers near by . Have friends who are divers for state police and search and rescue as well as barge workers . The currents at the surface may seem perfectly calm but along the bottom its a very different story .

[Trent]

Things are going to get through no matter what . BUT you can find ways to slow them down and limit their numbers . Long enough to pick them off .

[Josh Hilden]

Cyclone fencing in the water

[Trent]

Cyclone fencing in the water

Great idea

[whassupman03]

Hello...

Dead Reign rather likes water zombies all told. I don't have the books open but there's a number of variants that are water based if memory serves and it's mentioned about them walking across the bottom of bodies of water in the books.

And if I remember reading correctly, a zombie would only require 12% of its original body to survive underwater. Therefore, a zombie's survival underwater is relatively easy for the zombie and inherently dangerous to the survivor. However, as with all safe havens (Including those on the mainland...), all it takes is time for the defenses to be breached, as no defense is perfect. So you can argue that a river island safe haven is no better off than that of a mainland-based safe haven, but could very well be no worse off either. Even so, a safe haven on an island whether in a river or far from the mainland in an ocean simply has an additional line of defense (Water of course...), which like all others can be breached, but adds additional time for the safe haven to survive. But anyway, please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03

[Mechghost]

Anyone know how the Colombia River around Reed Island is? Deep? Fast etc?

[Trent]

Hello...

Dead Reign rather likes water zombies all told. I don't have the books open but there's a number of variants that are water based if memory serves and it's mentioned about them walking across the bottom of bodies of water in the books.

And if I remember reading correctly, a zombie would only require 12% of its original body to survive underwater. Therefore, a zombie's survival underwater is relatively easy for the zombie and inherently dangerous to the survivor. However, as with all safe havens (Including those on the mainland...), all it takes is time for the defenses to be breached, as no defense is perfect. So you can argue that a river island safe haven is no better off than that of a mainland-based safe haven, but could very well be no worse off either. Even so, a safe haven on an island whether in a river or far from the mainland in an ocean simply has an additional line of defense (Water of course...), which like all others can be breached, but adds additional time for the safe haven to survive. But anyway, please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03

But it takes awhile for them to bloat up and become floaters and its not in their nature to take a dip and wait . They would not already be floaters when they reach the river . They will try to walk to the deep currents and be pushed past . Rivers may seem calm on the surface but at the bottom its a different story . Even if it was calm a waterlogged zombie will be even slower and either slipping on wet rock or marred down by wet sand and mud . Easy to pick off . As for floaters . I doubt they are fast swimmers so again , easy to pick off . As far as escape routes , Humans have boats the are much faster than a ungraceful bloated dead body . NO safe haven will be perfect . But added defences and barriers can help .

[flatline]

Lots of river islands are far away from heavily populated areas, so even when you are discovered and moan goes out, the number of zombies that are attracted might still be manageable without fleeing.

--flatline

[Trent]

http://www.riverislands.com/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_island http://www.aerialpics.com/H/greatlakesshoreline.html http://boatingtales.com/history-and-fac ... d-islands/ http://www.airphotona.com/image.asp?imageid=8154 http://www.privateislandnews.com/tennes ... ion-block/ http://tnstateparks.com/parks/about/rock-island http://www.landreport.com/2011/12/sold- ... nd-island/ http://ronlowery.photoshelter.com/image ... 3QNVPtw7UI http://www.mvr.usace.army.mil/Missions/ ... sland.aspx http://www.mvr.usace.army.mil/Missions/ ... lands.aspx

[whassupman03]

Hello...

But it takes awhile for them to bloat up and become floaters and its not in their nature to take a dip and wait . They would not already be floaters when they reach the river . They will try to walk to the deep currents and be pushed past . Rivers may seem calm on the surface but at the bottom its a different story . Even if it was calm a waterlogged zombie will be even slower and either slipping on wet rock or marred down by wet sand and mud . Easy to pick off . As for floaters . I doubt they are fast swimmers so again , easy to pick off . As far as escape routes , Humans have boats the are much faster than a ungraceful bloated dead body . NO safe haven will be perfect . But added defences and barriers can help .

Personally, I couldn't agree more. Such things do help when it comes to safe havens on river islands. Zombies may become "locked" into the bottom of the river through the use of wet sand and mud, which does help to trap them to be dispatched later. In addition, floaters may be easy to pick off by snipers as well, as long as their heads can be targeted (Real people on the bayou do this all the time with alligators, ala Swamp People...). Boats can be used as escape vehicles (As well as utility vehicles when needing to do various jobs in the river, such as fishing, transport of people and supplies, etc.) when something goes downhill. I can foresee a defense force on a river island that uses SCUBA gear and underwater weapons to take out bottomed-out zombies (Like World War Z, but with simpler gear, which is often available for industries such as tourism and logging ala Ax Men...), while observation posts on the coastline and boaters can use sniper rifles to take out floaters. However, the real zombies that river island communities would have to worry about are zombies that can swim. Unusually, smarter zombies like Thinkers and Mock Zombies, and possibly faster ones as well, can possess the primal ability to get around in the water or retain human-taught swimming skills, which although crude, may get them where they need to feed and reproduce. Therefore, swimming zombies are what you need to fear in communities like these. Even so, please take care; thanks a bunch, and have a good day.

whassupman03

Footnote: Crossovers are not the intent of this post, as I am only posting such examples to make a point rather than to offer crossover material.

[SittingBull]

I still like the idea of living on a moving train with a cow catcher. Resupply fuel or scavenge when clear.

Hijack over.

[Trent]

I still like the idea of living on a moving train with a cow catcher. Resupply fuel or scavenge when clear.

Hijack over.

I thought of that too but was afraid that with no one left to maintain the tracks and the quality of fuel over time might be a problem . BUT it does have a lot of advantages and makes for interesting game play . How about a train put together from museum cars and engines ? may look a little mix matched but steam power would solve a lot of problems and there are train museums , many private , all over the US .

[Mechghost]

I'm in a game in Oregon, any ideas what the Columbia River is like around Reed Island?

[SittingBull]

Mechghost, look using google maps.

[Mechghost]

I looked, but it doesn't show how the river is, speed of the current etc. I was hoping someone from the area would see and answer.

[FatherMorpheus]

I looked, but it doesn't show how the river is, speed of the current etc. I was hoping someone from the area would see and answer.

Being one of the larger rivers in North America and having a fairly steep gradient, it is one of the most heavily damned rivers in the world. So the Columbia opperates in many areas more like a series of lakes, with man controlling the flow of the water.

Now, in the event 'end of days' this means the dams would most likely have issues with no one controlling the water flow. With that said, if the flood gates were left open, or some adventurous people with the skills and know how to open them did so, a lot of the river water level would start to lower. But the water volume would still be fairly high.

If memory serves Reed island has lots of beeches and some mangroves. From what I can tell, the Columbia river flows between 4 to 6 mph depending on section. But it isn't the speed that gets you, it is the volume of water. A human would know to start way up river to reach the island or use a boat. A zombie might see line of sight and plunge into the water. If it can walk on the bottom, it might eventually get there, if it knows (once it loses site of target) it has to adjust for the current. If it is swimming, it might have a visual, same issue though.

All in all, I would go for an island which has more sheer walls. As has been pointed out, like any defense location, islands have pros and cons.

[Mechghost]

I looked, but it doesn't show how the river is, speed of the current etc. I was hoping someone from the area would see and answer.

Being one of the larger rivers in North America and having a fairly steep gradient, it is one of the most heavily damned rivers in the world. So the Columbia opperates in many areas more like a series of lakes, with man controlling the flow of the water.

Now, in the event 'end of days' this means the dams would most likely have issues with no one controlling the water flow. With that said, if the flood gates were left open, or some adventurous people with the skills and know how to open them did so, a lot of the river water level would start to lower. But the water volume would still be fairly high.

If memory serves Reed island has lots of beeches and some mangroves. From what I can tell, the Columbia river flows between 4 to 6 mph depending on section. But it isn't the speed that gets you, it is the volume of water. A human would know to start way up river to reach the island or use a boat. A zombie might see line of sight and plunge into the water. If it can walk on the bottom, it might eventually get there, if it knows (once it loses site of target) it has to adjust for the current. If it is swimming, it might have a visual, same issue though.

All in all, I would go for an island which has more sheer walls. As has been pointed out, like any defense location, islands have pros and cons.

OK Thank you. Like I said the game is starting in Portland at the time of the Wave, so the players don't really know much about zombies yet. I selected Reed Island by using Google Maps for placement and the overhead pic looked like it had forest on the outside edges and clearings near the center (of course I could be reading the pics wrong LOL ). My char is supposed to be a local so I would have an idea what the different small islands would be like. Game note - the char is a Survivor OCC (Athletics:Sportsman/Outdoorsman) who was a professional guide/hunter.

[SittingBull]

I looked, but it doesn't show how the river is, speed of the current etc. I was hoping someone from the area would see and answer.

Apologies. I thought you were just looking for the presence of islands in the river.