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 Post subject: "Fast Ball" Special
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:15 am
  

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Wanderer

Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2000 2:01 am
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Location: Appleton, WI, USA
We've all seen it in the comic books, where one super strong character picks up another and tosses him at the bad guy. I sense that my Players are pondering this too, as we have a "Brick" who can create multiples of himself and a PS of somewhere in the high 40's, and the rest of the Players are pretty lightweights. One in particular has the power of Hyperdensity (PU1) and in emails is beginning to think along the "Fast Ball" Special idea. So...how would you rule on it? Range, damage, bonuses or penalties, etc?


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 Post subject: Re: "Fast Ball" Special
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:38 am
  

D-Bee

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Well, range is easy- how far could your superstrong character throw an object that weighed as much as the other character? Oh, BTW, if the character can increase their density and does so in mid-flight, chances are better than good that they just ate up all their momentum and will not even hit the target. Damage is harder- I really have no idea what to tell you there. As far as penalties or bonuses go, it would be a heavy penalty to throw a human being as a weapon, modified by the following: Is the the throwee metal laced or otherwise equipped to be used as a human dart? Are they(throwee) a willing dart? How agile is the thrower? Has the thrower ever thrown anything like a person before(tree, telephone pole, etc.)? How far away is the target? Also, if the characters are really interested in this maneuver, let them do it with heavy penalties for a while and then let them develop the attack as a skill that initially reduces or negates the penalties and eventually allows them to use the attack with bonuses to hit. Hope these thoughts helped...

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 Post subject: Re: "Fast Ball" Special
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:54 am
  

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Champion

Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2002 1:01 am
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cubist wrote:
Well, range is easy- how far could your superstrong character throw an object that weighed as much as the other character? Oh, BTW, if the character can increase their density and does so in mid-flight, chances are better than good that they just ate up all their momentum and will not even hit the target. Damage is harder- I really have no idea what to tell you there. As far as penalties or bonuses go, it would be a heavy penalty to throw a human being as a weapon, modified by the following: Is the the throwee metal laced or otherwise equipped to be used as a human dart? Are they(throwee) a willing dart? How agile is the thrower? Has the thrower ever thrown anything like a person before(tree, telephone pole, etc.)? How far away is the target? Also, if the characters are really interested in this maneuver, let them do it with heavy penalties for a while and then let them develop the attack as a skill that initially reduces or negates the penalties and eventually allows them to use the attack with bonuses to hit. Hope these thoughts helped...


These are valid questions and points. IIRC, the variation involving Colossus and Wolverine was something they had practiced time and time again, and more often than not wasn't intended to dish out a lot more damage as it was to effectively create a ranged attack with two characters that normally had none. I've also seen interesting variations on that theme with a brick and a flyer -- the flyer would do a dive-bombing run and let go of the brick, who would then become a human wrecking ball (usually performed when entrance into a building is desired).

As for extra damage, I would probably treat the throwee's attack as a long-range leap attack doing a critical hit.

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 Post subject: Re: "Fast Ball" Special
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 1:01 pm
  

Adventurer

Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:49 am
Posts: 535
Do you have the GM's Guide? Look at Power lift & throw in the...uh...Special combat attacks for brawling & rampages section. While it doesn't cover a controlled, practiced-in-the-Danger Room-for-hours-on-end Fastball Special it does have what happens to the throwee when a strong person chunks 'em and how far you can chunk 'em. Now, our favorite pint-size can of whoop ass probably wouldn't get all the negatives because of his Martial Arts skillz, his skeleton (I treat an endoskeleton as having locking joints. Does PU2 has that under the Endoskeleton supersoldier?) and his training with the tinman doing this maneuver.

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 Post subject: Re: "Fast Ball" Special
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2004 5:15 pm
  

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Adventurer

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cubist wrote:
Oh, BTW, if the character can increase their density and does so in mid-flight, chances are better than good that they just ate up all their momentum and will not even hit the target.


yup.... I spent a lot of time thinking about changing mass in mid-flight, and this is the main result. Of course, it's probably more useful to go the other way and decrease your mass.... New meaing for the concept of a "human bullet." I put up a big write-up of mass-changing stunts on my webpage- Some of it might be inconsistent as I developed the concepts, but most of it is pretty good.

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 Post subject: Re: "Fast Ball" Special
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:17 am
  

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Prince of Powers

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 1:01 am
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In a certain game system whence that particular attack occured (no names mentioned) there was a specific mechanic involved.

To Paraphrase.

1) it is a charge attack.
2) It presumes the thrower can actually lift and throw the throwwee accurately. it's not enough to just lift them and be able to carry them, the throwee has to be in the throwers comfortable carry range.
3) Either the thrower's skill at throwing is used, OR the throwee's HTH skill is used to hit.
4) Damage is based of the thrown character normal melee attack, modified for any benefits gained from the charge.

In palladium, i guess then, it would require that the thrower has enough PS that the throwee's weight falls into about 20-50% of their carry capacity. A hit roll is made by either character, modified by the HTH score of the throwee or the throwing skill of the thrower.
Damage would be based on an attack made by the throwee, but damage bonuses from high strength should be averaged between the thrower and throwee.

Considering palladium's mechanics, it should be a critical (like a leap attack) or score a knockdown and loss of initiative (like a body block/tackle). probably both if it requires more than one action on the throwers/throwees part. Possibly the throwee will lose an attack.

Batts

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 Post subject: Re: "Fast Ball" Special
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 11:59 am
  

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Wanderer

Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2000 2:01 am
Posts: 77
Location: Appleton, WI, USA
Iczer wrote:
[snip]....
In palladium, i guess then, it would require that the thrower has enough PS that the throwee's weight falls into about 20-50% of their carry capacity. A hit roll is made by either character, modified by the HTH score of the throwee or the throwing skill of the thrower.
Damage would be based on an attack made by the throwee, but damage bonuses from high strength should be averaged between the thrower and throwee.

Considering palladium's mechanics, it should be a critical (like a leap attack) or score a knockdown and loss of initiative (like a body block/tackle). probably both if it requires more than one action on the throwers/throwees part. Possibly the throwee will lose an attack.


Thanks for the input!!! This is what I was asking. I'm also curious to see if anyone else has come up with any "special technique" double team maneuvers, along these same lines?


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 Post subject: Re: "Fast Ball" Special
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:01 am
  

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Prince of Powers

Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2001 1:01 am
Posts: 1816
Location: Australia
actually now that i think of it, a certain game system that also uses a D20, has this process, an in game mechanic if you will known as 'aid another'

By using 'aid another' the auxilliary participants can garner bonuses to a primary participant's action. This is a broad spectrum thing, and doesn't actually do a lot in practise. each particpant has a chance to add a +2 bonus to the primary character's roll. Translated into palladium, this doesn't do much more than allow people to overcome parry deamons or people with high AR's. at the cost of multiple attacks.

But now that i think of it, combined attacks should be treated as a critical attack, using the lower of the strengths involved. thats a quick fix, though, not specific ruling.

Batts

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