Mutant Animal as Mystic Familiar

If Super Heroes/Heroines & Super Villains are your game, discuss them here.

Moderators: Immortals, Supreme Beings, Old Ones

Prodigy
Explorer
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:47 am
Location: North Carolina
Contact:

Mutant Animal as Mystic Familiar

Unread post by Prodigy »

Has anyone contemplated using a Mutant Animal as a Mystic Study's familiar? The animal has to be under 35 pounds so I am not sure if can be considered too powerful. Also he could be run as an interesting NPC.

Just a thought...
sine yo pity on da runny kind
User avatar
13eowulf
Megaversal® Ambassador
Posts: 1148
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Mutant Animal as Mystic Familiar

Unread post by 13eowulf »

The old Transdimensional TMNT has a section about mutant animals who were familiar first....
Oderint Dum Metuant.
User avatar
Riftmaker
Adventurer
Posts: 529
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2001 2:01 am
Location: Anywhere i roam. . . . .

Re: Mutant Animal as Mystic Familiar

Unread post by Riftmaker »

There are spells for having lesser supernatural beings as Familiars i see no reason you cant have a flying pig or something. Nothing PC level smart though but thats just me.
User avatar
Sir_Spirit
Invisible Pink Unicorn
Posts: 3528
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:12 am
Location: Eden Time:Precisely
Contact:

Re: Mutant Animal as Mystic Familiar

Unread post by Sir_Spirit »

THere are types of pigs that sold as household pets AFAIK, small potbellied pigs as far as I know;.
GIve them wings and say they can fly and people would be fine, or maybe a "miniature pig breed" that doesn't really exist but does't stretch credulity. Leaves them looking like piglets, basically kitten/catsized, but relatively smart. People would be all over that. Or, I know people who went gaga for that miniature giraffe in that one commercial. Not reason your familair coudln't look like that.
Damn ICE/BCP/BorderPatrol! Damn everyone who won’t damn ICE/BCP/Border Patrol!! Damn everyone that won’t put lights in his windows and sit up all night damning CE/BCP/BorderPatrol!!!
If you support ICE/BCP/BorderPatrol at this point, you would have called the Gestapo on the people surreptitiously moving into your neighbor's attic and huffed that you were only following the law.
User avatar
drewkitty ~..~
Monk
Posts: 17737
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Eastvale, calif
Contact:

Re: Mutant Animal as Mystic Familiar

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Prodigy wrote:Has anyone contemplated using a Mutant Animal as a Mystic Study's familiar? The animal has to be under 35 pounds so I am not sure if can be considered too powerful. Also he could be run as an interesting NPC.

Just a thought...

The core idea about familiars is that they are non-sentient animals that is bound to the mage. And mutant animals are sentients, as per the core concept of the HU lexicon. As such the two are at cross odds with this idea.

However, taking a different route.... if the mage used the familiar upgrading rules the mage can create a "sentient" familiar that does not break the rules.
The canon texts are found in the NB:TtGD book and the PF:MoM1 book. Along with the canon text there is also some expansion text in one of the rifters. (Familiar Wrangler issue.)
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
User avatar
Sir_Spirit
Invisible Pink Unicorn
Posts: 3528
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:12 am
Location: Eden Time:Precisely
Contact:

Re: Mutant Animal as Mystic Familiar

Unread post by Sir_Spirit »

AFAIK the rifter has some Nightbane tables that let you have a familiar made from like 1/10th your hitpoints. If it dies one syou heal the HP back it regrows(usually in day or so). You know what it knows IIRC, and it can go up to certain distance away form you, so yo it can spy if you need it too.
Damn ICE/BCP/BorderPatrol! Damn everyone who won’t damn ICE/BCP/Border Patrol!! Damn everyone that won’t put lights in his windows and sit up all night damning CE/BCP/BorderPatrol!!!
If you support ICE/BCP/BorderPatrol at this point, you would have called the Gestapo on the people surreptitiously moving into your neighbor's attic and huffed that you were only following the law.
User avatar
drewkitty ~..~
Monk
Posts: 17737
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Eastvale, calif
Contact:

Re: Mutant Animal as Mystic Familiar

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Sir_Spirit wrote:AFAIK the rifter has some Nightbane tables that let you have a familiar made from like 1/10th your hit points. If it dies one so you heal the HP back, so it regrows(usually in day or so). You know what it knows IIRC, and it can go up to certain distance away form you, so yo it can spy if you need it too.

The R20 Rifter NB tables are for putting together the Features of your NB/NS. And has no bearing on the subject of this topic.
♦ The "familiar" feature mentioned above is A Part of the NightBane. Not something separate from the NB. As such it is something that is only available to NB and NS. [It comes back when the NB/NS next changes back to their morphus.]
(If a want an explanation of how it is possible is wanted…well I am not getting into multi-dimensional physics to explain it.)
-----------

Yet, a NB/NS char might actually have this Feature. Ether because the char is a LotR/PFRPG nut that wants to to be a wizard or is a mage.
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
User avatar
eliakon
Palladin
Posts: 9093
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Contact:

Re: Mutant Animal as Mystic Familiar

Unread post by eliakon »

Through the Glass Darkly has some rules on enhanced familiars.
One of them is Human Intelligence for 5 PPE.
Presto... you have an animal with human intelligence...
hhhhmmmmmm
So my black cat is size level 3 and has 70 BIO-E.
At least it did before I started playing around with it...
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
User avatar
Sir_Spirit
Invisible Pink Unicorn
Posts: 3528
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:12 am
Location: Eden Time:Precisely
Contact:

Re: Mutant Animal as Mystic Familiar

Unread post by Sir_Spirit »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Sir_Spirit wrote:AFAIK the rifter has some Nightbane tables that let you have a familiar made from like 1/10th your hit points. If it dies one so you heal the HP back, so it regrows(usually in day or so). You know what it knows IIRC, and it can go up to certain distance away form you, so yo it can spy if you need it too.

The R20 Rifter NB tables are for putting together the Features of your NB/NS. And has no bearing on the subject of this topic.


As a type of familiar it totally is relevant and definately has bearing. There's no reason a mage studying the nightbane, or working on their own, couldn't come up with a Conjure Familiar spell that works like the feature. Indeed, a fleshsculpter( from TtMD) would find a fleshborne familiar spell right up their ally. And once they know, it's a shadowleague posting away from it's arcane formulae being traded to a standard sorcerer who could convert it into standard invocation and thus into the megaverse...
Damn ICE/BCP/BorderPatrol! Damn everyone who won’t damn ICE/BCP/Border Patrol!! Damn everyone that won’t put lights in his windows and sit up all night damning CE/BCP/BorderPatrol!!!
If you support ICE/BCP/BorderPatrol at this point, you would have called the Gestapo on the people surreptitiously moving into your neighbor's attic and huffed that you were only following the law.
User avatar
drewkitty ~..~
Monk
Posts: 17737
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Eastvale, calif
Contact:

Re: Mutant Animal as Mystic Familiar

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

That is the thing.....it is not a type of familiar. :roll: What it is, is a possible form of a NB/NS's morphus. So it is out of context for this topic. Only being tangentially relative due to its name/form.

--------

spells to grant it's effect to a mortal...*shrugs*
Write it up and post it in the fun magic topic.
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
User avatar
Sir_Spirit
Invisible Pink Unicorn
Posts: 3528
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:12 am
Location: Eden Time:Precisely
Contact:

Re: Mutant Animal as Mystic Familiar

Unread post by Sir_Spirit »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:That is the thing.....it is not a type of familiar. :roll:


Yes is it. It's just not a type you thought of. Attempting to ignore it won't make it go away.
Damn ICE/BCP/BorderPatrol! Damn everyone who won’t damn ICE/BCP/Border Patrol!! Damn everyone that won’t put lights in his windows and sit up all night damning CE/BCP/BorderPatrol!!!
If you support ICE/BCP/BorderPatrol at this point, you would have called the Gestapo on the people surreptitiously moving into your neighbor's attic and huffed that you were only following the law.
User avatar
drewkitty ~..~
Monk
Posts: 17737
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Eastvale, calif
Contact:

Re: Mutant Animal as Mystic Familiar

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Sir_Spirit wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:That is the thing.....it is not a type of familiar. :roll:


Yes is it. It's just not a type you thought of. Attempting to ignore it won't make it go away.

Since you misquoted me I will finis the quote.
drewkitty ~..~ wrote: What it is, is a possible form of a NB/NS's morphus. So it is out of context for this topic. Only being tangentially relative due to its name/form.

Since you are saying that that one specific NB feature is somehow different from all other NB features...you show us how it is different from all the other NB features without stepping outside what canon says they are.

In the same rifter there are other two body features and you are not calling them familiars?
*yawns*
Maybe you should go reread what NB features are. So you can understand that the words you are spouting off are contrary to the canon.
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
User avatar
eliakon
Palladin
Posts: 9093
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Contact:

Re: Mutant Animal as Mystic Familiar

Unread post by eliakon »

Before this turns into a flame war that gets this thread locked...
My two cents worth here.
Both Sir Spirit and Drew are right.
This is both a Nightbane feature and a kind of familiar.
Yes it is a feature found on a Nightbane features table. Thus it is, most definitely a Nightbane feature no doubt there.
it is also a familiar since it is pretty clearly described as being just that.
And amusingly since the Dark Designs book has some guides on how to convert stuff into Nightbane it only makes sense that people should be able to do the opposite and convert things out of Nightbane as well.
So yes, if a GM liked this could be used as a template for the creation of the sort of familiar often seen in comic books... a 'whatever' that survives because hey plot.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
User avatar
drewkitty ~..~
Monk
Posts: 17737
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Eastvale, calif
Contact:

Re: Mutant Animal as Mystic Familiar

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

eliakon wrote:snip
And amusingly since the Dark Designs book has some guides on how to convert stuff into Nightbane it only makes sense that people should be able to do the opposite and convert things out of Nightbane as well.
...snip

The NB: DD book only has conversion suggestions about powers being converted, not body parts.

My objection to what was being said is not what the published text said it is. If SS wishes to restate his ideas in forms that conform to the established canon lexicon that would be fine. SS should note that this would mean he can't say mortal can just "have" a NB/NS feature. Because within the canon texts that is impossible.

If he is saying that a char can have 'something like a NB/NS feature' then he should say it that way & then give a way for that to happen.

Otherwise SS's suggestion is soo far off in right field (that is outside what the published text says is possible) that it was outside the parking lot of the baseball stadium.
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
User avatar
eliakon
Palladin
Posts: 9093
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Contact:

Re: Mutant Animal as Mystic Familiar

Unread post by eliakon »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
eliakon wrote:snip
And amusingly since the Dark Designs book has some guides on how to convert stuff into Nightbane it only makes sense that people should be able to do the opposite and convert things out of Nightbane as well.
...snip

The NB: DD book only has conversion suggestions about powers being converted, not body parts.

My objection to what was being said is not what the published text said it is. If SS wishes to restate his ideas in forms that conform to the established canon lexicon that would be fine. SS should note that this would mean he can't say mortal can just "have" a NB/NS feature. Because within the canon texts that is impossible.

If he is saying that a char can have 'something like a NB/NS feature' then he should say it that way & then give a way for that to happen.

Otherwise SS's suggestion is soo far off in right field (that is outside what the published text says is possible) that it was outside the parking lot of the baseball stadium.

This is a power
It is a 'power' in the same way that most super powers are powers and body parts.
There is a written power, it has stats, it has effects, and it is only available to a specific group.
Yep, sounds like a 'power' to me.
Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck I'm going to say that it is probably a duck.
I (and apparently Sir Spirit) have no interest in playing semantics games trying to define what the definition of is is, or arguing if a Nightbane feature is or is not a power (which is basically... beyond not relevant to this discussion. The question was not "what are the exact definitions of all words in use around the various IP lines of Palladium and what is the most exacting way that they can be interpreted)
Most of the people that are on these forums brainstorming new ideas are not trying to narrow things down and make it harder to play. Instead they are looking to make things more open and figure out ways to make it easier to play and with more options. And that is what this looks like. An attempt to offer more options that may have normally been not thought of.


Now would I let a player make such a familiar?
Maybe
Would I let them do it with the normal spell
Absolutely not
But I would probably allow it with the right level of PPE expenditure and clever backstory (clever justification goes a long way)
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
User avatar
drewkitty ~..~
Monk
Posts: 17737
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Eastvale, calif
Contact:

Re: Mutant Animal as Mystic Familiar

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

"Appearance and Shape Tables".(NBMB page 91 2nd paragraph.)
"Appearance Table" (page 92)

Since what is being argued about is from one of the Appearance/Shape/Form tables, calling a body shape a power is not talking about what canon says they are. NB powers are called 'Talents'.

(I'm guessing that we all started using the word 'Feature' to mean the Appearance/Shape/Form table options because the 1st random roll in the nightbane characteristics table directs the player to roll on the unusual facial features. And in the opposite page right next to that there is an option called Elfin Features.)

-----
If SS was brainstorming, then he should of said that is what he was doing. Not stating things like what he was saying was canon.
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
User avatar
13eowulf
Megaversal® Ambassador
Posts: 1148
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:15 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Mutant Animal as Mystic Familiar

Unread post by 13eowulf »

It seems to me that the Nightbane Morphus Tables could be shoehorned into HU2 as an expanded version of Monstrous Form creation.
From there you can make non-nightbane characters with morphus features.
Once you are there it isnt a stretch to move/adapt the former-morphus-traits-now-super-powers to other areas, such as spells.
Oderint Dum Metuant.
User avatar
drewkitty ~..~
Monk
Posts: 17737
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Eastvale, calif
Contact:

Re: Mutant Animal as Mystic Familiar

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

13eowulf wrote:It seems to me that the Nightbane Morphus Tables could be shoehorned into HU2 as an expanded version of Monstrous Form creation.
From there you can make non-nightbane characters with morphus features.
Once you are there it isn't a stretch to move/adapt the former-morphus-traits-now-super-powers to other areas, such as spells.

While the nightbane appearance tables could be used to make a monstrous form for a super who ether has mutation side effects or has to transform into a monstrous form to use their powers. However, would be a GM's house rule if it happened. Something everyone else seams to be omitting from their comments.

Come on people, if you are talking about house rules then say something that indicate you are talking about house rules so the ignorant don't think you are talking about canon.
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
User avatar
eliakon
Palladin
Posts: 9093
Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
Contact:

Re: Mutant Animal as Mystic Familiar

Unread post by eliakon »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
13eowulf wrote:It seems to me that the Nightbane Morphus Tables could be shoehorned into HU2 as an expanded version of Monstrous Form creation.
From there you can make non-nightbane characters with morphus features.
Once you are there it isn't a stretch to move/adapt the former-morphus-traits-now-super-powers to other areas, such as spells.

While the nightbane appearance tables could be used to make a monstrous form for a super who ether has mutation side effects or has to transform into a monstrous form to use their powers. However, would be a GM's house rule if it happened. Something everyone else seams to be omitting from their comments.

Come on people, if you are talking about house rules then say something that indicate you are talking about house rules so the ignorant don't think you are talking about canon.

There is no reason at all that I can see to need to put some sort of "Canon light on/off" tag on every post unless the discussion is about the actual rules and someone is suggesting an alternative to the rules in discussion. When the thread itself is non-canon then it seems fairly safe to assume that all follow on posts will also be non-canon. And this thread was pretty clearly non-canon (it was asking about brainstorming ways to alter how familiars work, that right there says non-canon) so...
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Post Reply

Return to “Heroes Unlimited™”