Razorwing wrote:Skills does not make a character powerful... no matter how many one has.
When the class is
explicitly all about the skills?
Then yes, yes it does make you more or less powerful depending on the number of skills you get.
That is sort of the
whole point of the Hardware class.
Razorwing wrote:By this logic, someone with a Doctorate should be more powerful than someone with a Street level education.
They are.
Razorwing wrote:Skills allow one to do more, but they still have a limited number of actions... and when you are using a skill, you generally can't use a power at the same time... unless both complement each other.
This is utterly, totally, and compleately logically flawed
1) it is not always true
2) it is not relevant to the question of if you are making one person even MORE powerful.
3) You cant use two powers at the same time, that does not mean that adding more powers to a person doesn't make them more powerful.
Razorwing wrote:Electrical and Mechanical Hardware characters are seen as weak, not because of the skill they have, but rather because of the applicability of the equipment they tend to have.
No.
They are seen as weak because they get less skills, with less bonuses, in less areas of use than the Analytical.
Razorwing wrote:A Mechanical Hardware character is at his most powerful behind the wheel of one of his super vehicles... but outside of it... he isn't that great. Electrical Hardware characters are at their best with their electrical equipment and when hacking... take them out of that element and of course they will be weak.
Which is
1) sophistry because the claim that "Hardware is powerful if they have their gear" is the entire point of hardware.
2) since no game I have ever been in has been hacking intensive that will, sort of by default mean that yes, electrical is weak and not considered viable. hence the reason to make it more viable.
The same goes with the mechanical character. Who needs a full vehicle as opposed to an analytical.
Razorwing wrote:Weapon Hardware characters seem strong because their expertise is with weapons... which is used for fighting... giving them the appearance of strength because that is all weapons are good for. Put them in a situation where they can not use weapons... or have to improvise the crudest of weapons... and their strength all but vanishes. The same is true for an Analytical Genius... their expertise may be a bit more broadly applicable... but it isn't nearly as specialized as the other classes. Sure... he could figure out how to operate a super vehicle... but wouldn't get the same performance out of it as a Mechanical Hardware character could.
A weapons character is considered powerful because they get a huge array of skills, and a HF, and a huge array of weapons.
In a game that is very widely known for being heavily slanted toward combat. So yes, there is a reason they are considered potent.
Analytical characters are considered the best because they are better than mechanical hardware at making vehicles, better than electrical at electronics, can figure out other super vehicles, pilot power armor, and get more skills.
And for more fun... that Mechanical Hardware doesn't get any bonus to the performance out of the vehicle. Unless you apply a house rule.
They get a bonus to hotwire, and a skill to build super vehicles.
That's it.
Razorwing wrote:These sub-categories aren't better or worse than each other... merely different from each other... with strengths and weaknesses of their own... and each has specific requirements for getting additional areas of expertise that balance out what is gained by taking another area of expertise. The actual advantage gained is with a more versatile character, but at the cost of their expertise (lower skill bonuses). This may not sound like much, but at the start of one's heroic career... loosing half of one's skill bonuses (not to mention attacks per melee) and a selection of skills will make the character less effective in both areas of expertise than he would be if he focused in one area alone. Yes... the Weapon Expert may still have the same number of attacks as before... but he won't be as skilled with the variety of weapons he otherwise would have been... and ALL other skills see their bonuses reduced by half (including new skills from the new area of expertise), meaning he will be less effective in those areas than a Hardware character that specialized in it.
Again, not each area pays the same price to get a second area
And no, each area is not 'equal' sorry.
Unless you really considerer "build super vehicle" to be an amazing skill that is equal to "analyze and operate device" and "Build/modify armor" for instance....
Razorwing wrote:To me... adding powers to this through a single (or multiple smaller) invention(s) is no different than say a Mutant with a Doctorate's Degree... both are going to have a lot of skills and comparable powers.
The difference is that of night and day.
The mutant will ALWAYS get skills.
The question is which of 12 skill packages that are universally available to each and every player that RAW they will randomly be assigned.
Thus there is no question of 'special privileges" or the like.
In this case it is taking the system as written and deliberately stating that because the options offered are not powerful enough you want the even MORE powerful option.
This is especially because I note that it is people that are dissatisfied with the two options given that want to trade them in for the most powerful one...
...that then are trying to clain that the two offered are not really the weakest two options, and that the Analytical isn't really the most powerful and that they are all really just the same...
...if that is the case then they should be fine with the two options they have right?
But instead every single time the question is "But they don't get enough power! They don't get enough skill! Gimme the Analytical!"
That sort of makes my case for me here
Razorwing wrote:It isn't the skill or the powers that makes one Powerful... it is how one uses them than does. I see nothing unbalanced with such characters (save maybe their choice of powers which may be chosen specifically to overcome the inherent drawbacks of choosing another area of expertise). If a player wanted to play the inventor of a Super Invention as an Analytical Genus (and is willing to make the sacrifices to get the Weapon Expert area as a bonus), I don't see that as overpowered... yes, he will have a ton of skills... and even powers through his inventions... but he gets no other equipment other than the inventions (though might have a modest workshop... he had to build his inventions somewhere)... and is likely to be at a distinct skill and combat disadvantage compared to a player who went with a pure Analytical Genius or Weapons Expert (with their full budget and an array of gadgets). Overall... they wouldn't be more powerful than each other...merely different.
If you were really on board with the idea that power was not a function of the category then you would not be so dead set on trying to get the most powerful version instead of being willing to take one of the canon options.
I don't seriously think that anyone is going to be able to say with a straight face that a Analytical Genius/Weapons Genius/Super Invention character is in any way shape or form remotely equivalent to an Electrical Genius.
All it does is further kick the Electrical and Mechanical Genius classes into the ghetto of "why take that worthless class when you can play something so much better and pretend that your not going for pure raw power."