Supersoldier (PU2) Question
Moderators: Immortals, Supreme Beings, Old Ones
Supersoldier (PU2) Question
Quick question about the Supersoldier Enhancement Table... is this in addition to what the Number and Type of Super Abilities table provides... or is it an alternative like it was with the original Supersoldier option for the Experiment Category (1 Minor power and 3 rolls on the Supersoldier enhancements).
At the moment I am treating it as an Alternative Option to the Super Ability table.
Combining this table with the Super Abilities table (especially with the Brain Augmentation, Chemical Enhancement or Robotic Endoskeletal Replacement options) can seem rather overpowered... especially if you get options that these enhancements already enhance.
Just thought I would check (looking for as official a ruling as possible... with any official support reference one can provide beyond what their personal opinion is).
At the moment I am treating it as an Alternative Option to the Super Ability table.
Combining this table with the Super Abilities table (especially with the Brain Augmentation, Chemical Enhancement or Robotic Endoskeletal Replacement options) can seem rather overpowered... especially if you get options that these enhancements already enhance.
Just thought I would check (looking for as official a ruling as possible... with any official support reference one can provide beyond what their personal opinion is).
There are three types of people in the world; those who can count and those who can't.
- drewkitty ~..~
- Monk
- Posts: 17778
- Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
- Location: Eastvale, calif
- Contact:
Re: Supersoldier (PU2) Question
The supersoldier text…….the text does seam to be incomplete in that it does not have complete instructions. Specifically … how/when do you use the Supersoldier Enhancement Table.
I would treat that table as the table that is used when the char doesn't get any 'superpowers', but just enhanced.
example: getting captain america instead of the fantastic four.
Whether these are ""failures"" or what they were aiming for in the 1st place, should be left up to the players and GMs.
In one of the supers books there are chars that are Supersoldier examples.
I would treat that table as the table that is used when the char doesn't get any 'superpowers', but just enhanced.
example: getting captain america instead of the fantastic four.
Whether these are ""failures"" or what they were aiming for in the 1st place, should be left up to the players and GMs.
In one of the supers books there are chars that are Supersoldier examples.
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
- Pepsi Jedi
- Palladin
- Posts: 6955
- Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:11 am
- Comment: 24 was the start... We are Legion.
- Location: Northern Gun
Re: Supersoldier (PU2) Question
It's in addition to powers. It 'could' be overpowered if you got 4 (But not if you got 1). It only ends up being 'powerful' if you "Just so happen to get 4" and then "Just so happen to roll the most powerful options to stack benifits" and what have you.
It's supposed to yes, illustrate these are -SUPER- Soldiers. 100% intended to be, and designed for... Combat/Military application.
Mutants might gain their powers randomly through genetic expression or accident. Bionics might end up that way after an accident. Empowered are pretty much based around having an ailment of some sort that is overcome.
Super-Soldiers are designed from the ground up to be super-soldiers. They're 'supposed' to get powers and benifits.
The table is supposed to show some of the 'minor' side effects of a supersoldier process.
After all you could make a Super Soldier, and via the rules end up with two minor superpowers and one minor roll on the Enhancement table.
People tend to go "Oh well... >.>..... Of course I rolled a 4 on that.. and of COURSE I randomly got all the best rolls ON the table... to add all together, and of course on the super power table I got Two Major Super powers too....
They don't often go "Oh.. I only got two minor powers.. blur and glow bug... and one minor on the enhancement table.. and bonus to save vs Horror factor and illusions.... "
It's supposed to yes, illustrate these are -SUPER- Soldiers. 100% intended to be, and designed for... Combat/Military application.
Mutants might gain their powers randomly through genetic expression or accident. Bionics might end up that way after an accident. Empowered are pretty much based around having an ailment of some sort that is overcome.
Super-Soldiers are designed from the ground up to be super-soldiers. They're 'supposed' to get powers and benifits.
The table is supposed to show some of the 'minor' side effects of a supersoldier process.
After all you could make a Super Soldier, and via the rules end up with two minor superpowers and one minor roll on the Enhancement table.
People tend to go "Oh well... >.>..... Of course I rolled a 4 on that.. and of COURSE I randomly got all the best rolls ON the table... to add all together, and of course on the super power table I got Two Major Super powers too....
They don't often go "Oh.. I only got two minor powers.. blur and glow bug... and one minor on the enhancement table.. and bonus to save vs Horror factor and illusions.... "
Lt. Nyota Uhura: I'm impressed. For a moment there, I thought you were just a dumb hick who only has sex with farm animals.
James Tiberius Kirk: Well, not _only_...
- Daniel Stoker
- Knight
- Posts: 4867
- Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
- Comment: Non Impediti Ratione Cogitationis
- Location: Jewdica
Re: Supersoldier (PU2) Question
Hold onto your horses here... I agree with PJ, you should roll on both the "Number and Type of Super Abilities" chart as well as the "Special Supersolider Enhancement Table" for your character.
Daniel Stoker
Daniel Stoker
Judaism - More Old School than either Christianity or Islam.
- Stone Gargoyle
- Virtuoso of Variants
- Posts: 10028
- Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:18 pm
- Comment: "Your inferiority complex might be justified."
- Location: Lurking on rooftops like a proper gargoyle should, in and around Tacoma, WA.
- Contact:
Re: Supersoldier (PU2) Question
Yup, you get all of it, plus some nifty vehicles and gadgets on top of that. Not really any more powerful than a high budget eugenics or bionics character.
"SG, you are a limitless fountain of Butt-Saving Advice. You Rock, Stone and Concrete." ~ TrumbachD
- eliakon
- Palladin
- Posts: 9093
- Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:40 pm
- Comment: Palladium Books Canon is set solely by Kevin Siembieda, either in person, or by his approval of published material.
- Contact:
Re: Supersoldier (PU2) Question
I am going to say that you can roll on the table 1d4 times AND get super powers...
...but that you don't get super powers and either Brain Implant, Chemical, or Endoskeletal.
I say that because while the Super Solder implants are 'a bit of a boost that stack onto your powers' combining them with super powers (or taking two of them at once) pushes you well into the mega-hero level of power.
I base this on the fact that page 81 says "Instead of the above, the player may select and roll up one of the following three augmented characters"
To me this clearly indicates that the entire text before this is one form of Super Soldier, and the other three are three separate forms.
...but that you don't get super powers and either Brain Implant, Chemical, or Endoskeletal.
I say that because while the Super Solder implants are 'a bit of a boost that stack onto your powers' combining them with super powers (or taking two of them at once) pushes you well into the mega-hero level of power.
I base this on the fact that page 81 says "Instead of the above, the player may select and roll up one of the following three augmented characters"
To me this clearly indicates that the entire text before this is one form of Super Soldier, and the other three are three separate forms.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.
Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
- drewkitty ~..~
- Monk
- Posts: 17778
- Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2000 1:01 am
- Location: Eastvale, calif
- Contact:
Re: Supersoldier (PU2) Question
After rereading the Experiment power cat I believe that the inclusion of the random superpowers table was a mistake. Since the SS is, at it's core, an expansion of the SS section in the experiment power cat. And that text says not to roll for superpowers.
May you be blessed with the ability to change course when you are off the mark.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
Each question should be give the canon answer 1st, then you can proclaim your house rules.
Reading and writing (literacy) is how people on BBS interact.
- Pepsi Jedi
- Palladin
- Posts: 6955
- Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:11 am
- Comment: 24 was the start... We are Legion.
- Location: Northern Gun
Re: Supersoldier (PU2) Question
If you read the first paragraph of the Supersoldier in PU2, it states specificly
"That option has been expanded into a whole power category of it's own, with more detail, a larger variety of new super abilities and options for your super soldier characters."
They're supposed to have super powers.
Later on it also says
"Don't worry about low physical attributes since they should be altered though the supersoldier's enhancement process, skils and super abliities."
Then it goes on to the section about rolling your superabilities.
There's no way that they're a mistake, as they're in the same table as "Chemical" "Endoskeletal replacement" "Brain implant, or latent psionics"
So it's clear you're supposed to roll on the table. The table has some super powers, some others (Like juicer, or bionics, etc)
The "Enhacements" aren't actual superabilities. They're just addtional good things you get due to being purposefully built to be a super soldier. I.E. to uplift you from the 98lbs weakling, to a -soldier- that also has 'super powers'.
Instead of thinking "Captain America" with maxed out 'HUMAN' abilities (Though that could be easily argued.)
Think more like Wolverine, Omega Red, Maverick, Deathlock, Nuke, Volk, (And yes I know that Wolverine, Omega red and maveric are also mutants. the Super soldier category has that as one of the options.)
"That option has been expanded into a whole power category of it's own, with more detail, a larger variety of new super abilities and options for your super soldier characters."
They're supposed to have super powers.
Later on it also says
"Don't worry about low physical attributes since they should be altered though the supersoldier's enhancement process, skils and super abliities."
Then it goes on to the section about rolling your superabilities.
There's no way that they're a mistake, as they're in the same table as "Chemical" "Endoskeletal replacement" "Brain implant, or latent psionics"
So it's clear you're supposed to roll on the table. The table has some super powers, some others (Like juicer, or bionics, etc)
The "Enhacements" aren't actual superabilities. They're just addtional good things you get due to being purposefully built to be a super soldier. I.E. to uplift you from the 98lbs weakling, to a -soldier- that also has 'super powers'.
Instead of thinking "Captain America" with maxed out 'HUMAN' abilities (Though that could be easily argued.)
Think more like Wolverine, Omega Red, Maverick, Deathlock, Nuke, Volk, (And yes I know that Wolverine, Omega red and maveric are also mutants. the Super soldier category has that as one of the options.)
Lt. Nyota Uhura: I'm impressed. For a moment there, I thought you were just a dumb hick who only has sex with farm animals.
James Tiberius Kirk: Well, not _only_...
Re: Supersoldier (PU2) Question
Yet, in the Alternative Types of Supersoldier it states that instead of the above (powers and the various Super Soldier enhancements), it says that the player can instead choose one of the following options; the Cybernetic Brain Implants (HU version of the Rifts Crazy), Chemical Augmentation (HU version of the Rifts Juicer) or the Robotic Endoskeletal replacement.
Since these are also on the "above" power chart... I am inclined to believe the Supersoldier modifications were not meant to be combined with that chart, but rather was intended to be more like the Supersoldier option in the Experiment section... where one gets a Minor Power and a number of these Enhancements.
As such that is the way I intend to treat it until there is official Errata on this (though in this case they will get 1 minor power and 4 enhancements).
Of course, without an Experiment side-effect table (which was still part of the Supersoldier option with Experiments), I would allow those who roll powers to randomly roll 1 Supersoldier enhancement (this would be the side-effect and some do have penalties). Additionally, if players wanted to roll more times, I would allow them to exchange powers for additional rolls (1 minor power = 1 additional roll or 1 major power = 2 additional rolls). The alternative Supersoldier options (as mentioned above) do not get to roll on the enhancements... their creation already takes that into account... including side-effects of the processes.
As mentioned in the rules, duplicating an enhancement roll will be rerolled or be exchanged to an additional roll on the Special Weapon table.
I'm not one to add to the power-creep that seems to have happened with many other Power Categories when I don't have to.
Since these are also on the "above" power chart... I am inclined to believe the Supersoldier modifications were not meant to be combined with that chart, but rather was intended to be more like the Supersoldier option in the Experiment section... where one gets a Minor Power and a number of these Enhancements.
As such that is the way I intend to treat it until there is official Errata on this (though in this case they will get 1 minor power and 4 enhancements).
Of course, without an Experiment side-effect table (which was still part of the Supersoldier option with Experiments), I would allow those who roll powers to randomly roll 1 Supersoldier enhancement (this would be the side-effect and some do have penalties). Additionally, if players wanted to roll more times, I would allow them to exchange powers for additional rolls (1 minor power = 1 additional roll or 1 major power = 2 additional rolls). The alternative Supersoldier options (as mentioned above) do not get to roll on the enhancements... their creation already takes that into account... including side-effects of the processes.
As mentioned in the rules, duplicating an enhancement roll will be rerolled or be exchanged to an additional roll on the Special Weapon table.
I'm not one to add to the power-creep that seems to have happened with many other Power Categories when I don't have to.
There are three types of people in the world; those who can count and those who can't.
- Pepsi Jedi
- Palladin
- Posts: 6955
- Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:11 am
- Comment: 24 was the start... We are Legion.
- Location: Northern Gun
Re: Supersoldier (PU2) Question
I think you're reading too much into it. It's simply there for those that "Want" to -choose- one instead of rolling. It's giving you the option to make a crazy or a juicer in HU instead of a super soldier with super powers. Some people go in 'wanting' one of those, instead.
But with your reading you're ignoring a large section of rules, based on an optional selection that's actually mentioned in the previous rules you wish to ignore.
The Juicer and crazy and (Wannabe wolverine) Don't get the 'additional -superpowers- previously on the table 'above' because their 'superpowers' are being the crazy, juicer etc.
It's set aside in that fashion because unlike super powers and psionics, those three options appear there for that specific purpose and not before.
You can do what ever you want in your games, but that's not how it's written.
But with your reading you're ignoring a large section of rules, based on an optional selection that's actually mentioned in the previous rules you wish to ignore.
The Juicer and crazy and (Wannabe wolverine) Don't get the 'additional -superpowers- previously on the table 'above' because their 'superpowers' are being the crazy, juicer etc.
It's set aside in that fashion because unlike super powers and psionics, those three options appear there for that specific purpose and not before.
You can do what ever you want in your games, but that's not how it's written.
Lt. Nyota Uhura: I'm impressed. For a moment there, I thought you were just a dumb hick who only has sex with farm animals.
James Tiberius Kirk: Well, not _only_...