Space Native

[Malakai]

Quick question for the community: under Space Native, it says

Can survive in space completely unprotected for three days (72 hours) per level of experience without ill effect. Speculation is that the character's body somehow absorbs solar energy and radiation in place of food and water. After this period has elapsed, the Space Native can survive an additional two days per P.E. point, but slowly weakens and suffers from dehydration and starvation the same as anyone else deprived of food and water.

Now, the question comes - what if you can eat and drink, or through some other power don't need to: Can you stay out there longer?

Given the whole description (not being posted here - PU3, page 20), it seems like the only thing stopping you is the need to eat and drink.

[drewkitty ~..~]

As per the Text in AU:GG, in a conservative reading, No. Reading the text it seams that the char has an altered metabolism while in/exposed to space, and the char derives their sustenance from space. Whether or not the something is radiation or zero point energy or dark energy is not in question.

The Control Elemental Force Void (AU:GG 221) might be able to be used as a break point. Alternately using CEF:V and S.Nat..

Note that the eat/drink text was an analogy to describe an idea. Not the idea in and of itself. Critical Reading.

To contenue the analogy, the char needs some sort of 'sleep time' where the power is not being used between uses. This is a place a GM can place his or her own ruling about how long the 'sleep time' for the power needs to be between trips into space.

[eliakon]

My take is that the power says your a 'native' and provides a feeding mechanism.
Thus simply 'packing a lunch' wont help as your not feeding the 'right way'. But if you can eliminate the need to eat/drink itself (such as by a sustain spell for example, or another super power) then it would seem logical that you could then stay in space as long as you want.

[Malakai]

Note that the eat/drink text was an analogy to describe an idea. Not the idea in and of itself. Critical Reading.

To contenue the analogy, the char needs some sort of 'sleep time' where the power is not being used between uses. This is a place a GM can place his or her own ruling about how long the 'sleep time' for the power needs to be between trips into space.

Why do you say it is an analogy to describe the idea? Even in the AU:GG writing,

Can Survive in space completely unprotected for 3 days (72 hours) per level of experience without ill effect. Speculation is that the character's body somehow absorbs solar energy and radiation in place of food and water. After this period has elapsed, the Space Native can survive an additional two days per P.E. Point, but slowly weakens and suffers from dehydration and starvation the same as anyone else deprived of food and water.

Throughout the entirety of that section, the reference to food and water/starvation and dehydration appears very literal. The author specifies the energy "in place of food and water". After the allotted period of days based on level, during the extra days due to PE, the character is said to suffer from dehydration and starvation "the same as anyone else deprived of food and water." I'm curious as to why you suggest it is an analogy.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Note that the eat/drink text was an analogy to describe an idea. Not the idea in and of itself. Critical Reading.

To continue the analogy, the char needs some sort of 'sleep time' where the power is not being used between uses. This is a place a GM can place his or her own ruling about how long the 'sleep time' for the power needs to be between trips into space.

Why do you say it is an analogy to describe the idea? Even in the AU:GG writing,

Quick question for the community: under Space Native, it says

Can survive in space completely unprotected for three days (72 hours) per level of experience without ill effect. Speculation is that the character's body somehow absorbs solar energy and radiation in place of food and water. After this period has elapsed, the Space Native can survive an additional two days per P.E. point, but slowly weakens and suffers from dehydration and starvation the same as anyone else deprived of food and water.

To answer the question why do I say it was an analogy….because I read the text critically so I understood what it was saying.

It is not that they are starving from lack of physical food & water. It is The Effects are "the same as" starving from the lack of physical food & water.

[eliakon]

Note that the eat/drink text was an analogy to describe an idea. Not the idea in and of itself. Critical Reading.

To continue the analogy, the char needs some sort of 'sleep time' where the power is not being used between uses. This is a place a GM can place his or her own ruling about how long the 'sleep time' for the power needs to be between trips into space.

Why do you say it is an analogy to describe the idea? Even in the AU:GG writing,

Quick question for the community: under Space Native, it says

Can survive in space completely unprotected for three days (72 hours) per level of experience without ill effect. Speculation is that the character's body somehow absorbs solar energy and radiation in place of food and water. After this period has elapsed, the Space Native can survive an additional two days per P.E. point, but slowly weakens and suffers from dehydration and starvation the same as anyone else deprived of food and water.

To answer the question why do I say it was an analogy….because I read the text critically so I understood what it was saying.

It is not that they are starving from lack of physical food & water. It is The Effects are "the same as" starving from the lack of physical food & water.

Maybe its just how my critical reading differs from yours but it seems to me that the lines "in place of food and water" and "suffers from dehydration and starvation the same as anyone else deprived of food and water." mean that "just like anyone else who has been deprived of their food and water you will both starve and dehydrate."

It doesn't say that the they suffer effects 'similar to' dehydration and starvation' after all, but that they are actually experiencing those exact specific conditions. Because they are specifically not getting any food or drink (or their substitutes/analogs). And thus logically if they are no longer required to have those analogs in the first place, then the lack of them will not cause them the conditions cause by their lack.

[drewkitty ~..~]

And it sounds like you didn't read my 1st post. Specifically about the part that talks about altered metabolism.

The text does all but state that the char with the S.Nat. power does not need to eat or breath while in the the vacuum of space. And it directly implied that their metabolism is altered while while using that aspect of their power.

It is more like the char's body gets tired of the altered metabolism, or the altered metabolism becomes more and more inefficient the longer it is in use.
All of which are left to GMs to decide the specifics.

So any speculation that eating food while using the this effect of the power is up to a GM. Just like I said the 'down time' in-between long term uses is up to each GM.

[eliakon]

And it sounds like you didn't read my 1st post. Specifically about the part that talks about altered metabolism.

The text does all but state that the char with the S.Nat. power does not need to eat or breath while in the the vacuum of space. And it directly implied that their metabolism is altered while while using that aspect of their power.

I follow this yes. While in space you eat/drink/breathe "something else unspecified" yes.

It is more like the char's body gets tired of the altered metabolism, or the altered metabolism becomes more and more inefficient the longer it is in use.

This is where you lose me.
I don't see how you get from "the power substitutes for your need for food for X days and then you start starving" to "your power stops working unless you do some sort of resting that is not mentioned at all in the power"

Specifically I don't see where the leap from "you have 3 days of food and water stored up and then you starve" becomes "you run for 3 days and then need to reset in some unspecified manner that does not involve either food/water or this power"

All of which are left to GMs to decide the specifics.

So any speculation that eating food while using the this effect of the power is up to a GM. Just like I said the 'down time' in-between long term uses is up to each GM.

I don't think you could just eat food no. But if you don't have to eat at all then why would you need any 'down time'?
The power has no limits other than it can only maintain your food/water for 3 days per use and more over as written that time frame would instantly reset the moment you were no longer in space as there is no 'down time' in the power, and short of a house rule adding one...there isn't one.

[drewkitty ~..~]

[

It is more like the char's body gets tired of the altered metabolism, or the altered metabolism becomes more and more inefficient the longer it is in use.

This is where you lose me.
I don't see how you get from "the power substitutes for your need for food for X days and then you start starving" to "your power stops working unless you do some sort of resting that is not mentioned at all in the power"

Specifically I don't see where the leap from "you have 3 days of food and water stored up and then you starve" becomes "you run for 3 days and then need to reset in some unspecified manner that does not involve either food/water or this power"

It does not say anything about the char 'storing up' anything, so the photosynthesis frame of idea is what I read. which is why I said what I said about what it looks "more like".

[Reagren Wright]

And it sounds like you didn't read my 1st post. Specifically about the part that talks about altered metabolism.

The text does all but state that the char with the S.Nat. power does not need to eat or breath while in the the vacuum of space. And it directly implied that their metabolism is altered while while using that aspect of their power.

It is more like the char's body gets tired of the altered metabolism, or the altered metabolism becomes more and more inefficient the longer it is in use.
All of which are left to GMs to decide the specifics.

So any speculation that eating food while using the this effect of the power is up to a GM. Just like I said the 'down time' in-between long term uses is up to each GM.

What?

As an author of this type of stuff, my intent is try and not confuse the reader, but to write my
intent pretty straight forward. The sentence beginning with "Speculation" is the author merely
explaining what appears to be happening, he's stating a theory. You could even delete that
entire sentence as its not necessary. At no point is there any hint that what the author intends
is anything other than what he wrote. After 3 days per level, your immunity to space starts to
waver. Where are you getting the character has to sleep and why are you mentioning APS:
Void when it's not even mentioned. You seem to be inferring material that is not included in
the text. Sorry, I'm just not following your train of thought.

As for your original question Malakai. So you're flying around in outer space say for two days
at first level. You stop at a space station for a space burger and fries, then fly back out into
space, am I correct? Hmm, well I guess that would be a reset of the ability. I mean the author
does not say you have to wait a certain duration for the power to start working again. If you're
in space and land on a planet for half an hour to have lunch, then fly back into space, why
would you still only have one day left before the power starts draining your P.E. reserve (the
two days per P.E. point). That would make the power kind of futile for space travel. The power
is only good for 3 days then you have to wait for what 2nd level so you can be good for 6
days? Knowing Carmen the way I do and how Kevin thinks, it's a safe bet (without spelling it
out in detail) that you can recharge the power simply by entering an atmosphere based on the
individual's native world. Now I suppose you could eat a space burger while flying in space,
but the purpose of the power is to be impervious to the effects of space, so you don't need to
breathe air, drink water, or eat. That's the whole point of the ability. We want the power to
allow you time to travel from point A to point B in space without dying from lack of air, food,
or water.

Sometimes we read to much in the descriptions of powers, spells, etc. Authors are not trying
to trick you or make you think critically (we're gamers after all). The point is to simply
communicate the purpose, intent, or rule in a clear manner. Now if you want to do a critical
analysis and draw further conclusions, be my guess. Kevin would approve. He even go as far
and say if you don't like that rule, toss it out. I concur but let's at least stay in the parameters
of the description.

I see a Don't Walk sign. Now I could conclude I can run, skip, hop, jump, ride a bike,
cartwheel, etc to get across the street. I just can't walk across. Now if the sign said
Don't Cross. Then I know for certain I am not allowed to cross this barrier until further
notice.

[drewkitty ~..~]

And it sounds like you didn't read my 1st post. Specifically about the part that talks about altered metabolism.

The text does all but state that the char with the S.Nat. power does not need to eat or breath while in the the vacuum of space. And it directly implied that their metabolism is altered while while using that aspect of their power.

It is more like the char's body gets tired of the altered metabolism, or the altered metabolism becomes more and more inefficient the longer it is in use.
All of which are left to GMs to decide the specifics.

So any speculation that eating food while using the this effect of the power is up to a GM. Just like I said the 'down time' in-between long term uses is up to each GM.

What?

As an author of this type of stuff, my intent is try and not confuse the reader, but to write my
intent pretty straight forward. The sentence beginning with "Speculation" is the author merely
explaining what appears to be happening, he's stating a theory. You could even delete that
entire sentence as its not necessary. At no point is there any hint that what the author intends
is anything other than what he wrote. After 3 days per level, your immunity to space starts to
waver. Where are you getting the character has to sleep and why are you mentioning APS:
Void when it's not even mentioned. You seem to be inferring material that is not included in
the text. Sorry, I'm just not following your train of thought.

...snip

Sounds like the sub-text of what I said.

Since I was answering Eli's question about about my speculation…..*shrugs* not going to argue about my speculation.

Sleep….look at it as an analogy when you read it again. I did say (in essenece) >I don't know how long a down time the power needs<. Then I speculated how some GMs might rule on it.

Control Elemental Force:Void…..was giving an ability that might let the char reset the duration of the Space Nat. power. (Yes, it would require fast talking the GM for it to be allowed. But you have to do that with all power-combos.)
Opposed to the char eating while in the middle of space, w/o going inside a ship or SS, and eating food to increase the duration of the power cause she/he ate physical food.

[Malakai]

Sounds like the sub-text of what I said.
I was being very careful in what I said in that post about my descriptions about how the information was presented to not say any more then what the text said.
Since Eli was asking me about my speculation…..*shrugs* not going to argue about it.

Sleep….look at it as an analogy when you read it again. I did say (in essenece) >I don't know how long a down time the power needs<. Then I speculated how some GMs might rule on it.

Control Elemental Force:Void…..was giving an ability that might let the char reset the duration of the Space Nat. power. (Yes, it would require fast talking the GM for it to be allowed. But you have to do that with all power-combos.)
Opposed to the char eating while in the middle of space, w/o going inside a ship or SS, and eating food to increase the duration of the power cause she/he ate physical food.

Still not convinced it's an analogy. The paragraph before the limitation is mentioned lists benefits of the power (impervious to cold, depressurization, Breathe without air, etc). From that list alone, one is safe while floating in the empty void of space. And there is no limit placed on those. Only in the next paragraph is there a time limit - in terms of days - and it says that the "metabolism" that you are referring to replaces "food and water" - the only two considerations not accounted for in the first paragraph that would need to be considered for several days floating out in space. Then, when the character would be slowly weakening, it says specifically "the same as anyone else deprived of food and water".

If the time limit is meant to cover all aspects of survival, why is it specifically calling out only food and water? And if it's not, why wouldn't obtaining those necessities (or accounting for their need some other way) be enough?

Bringing in Control the Void does little to help the situation - it's a Major power that already does much of what the minor one does - you can create an area that is protected from all the detrimental side effects of space to begin with, and maintain it as long as you like (the only thing missing, interestingly enough, is food and water). Having a Major power that duplicates most of the abilities of the minor power it is supposed to help seems backwards: If you have both a major and a minor, you should really be looking for a minor that makes up for the shortcomings of the major.

[drewkitty ~..~]

Well I can't help you understand it then.

[Stone Gargoyle]

The way I see it, the power should have been worded "you can survive in space without protection" for X amount of time. Eating and drinking should not factor into it. And entering a planet's environment should reset the power, I really see no need for down time. But that is just my take on it. As with all powers, it is ultimately up to the GM to determine the particulars.