Can Mutants be Turned??

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Can Mutants be Turned??

Unread post by ESREVER333 »

I remember creating Mutant characters in the past and if memory serves correctly, Mutants are NOT immune to being Turned into Vampires and Werewolves!!! Is it possible to create 2 category Hero or Villain that's a Mutant/Vampire or Mutant/Werewolf?? Seems legal and legit!!
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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

Unread post by Razorwing »

Werewolves are a supernatural species... one can not be turned into a Werewolf or any Were-creature.

While mutants may be able to be turned into Vampires (at least some may be able to)... they would loose any mutant powers they may have in favor or vampiric abilities. This is the same as any vampiric character who looses all abilities and many skills they once had in life. In general... one can't create a 2 category hero... save for some optional rules for Mega-Heroes presented in Rifter 37.
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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Mutants might be susceptible to the Lycanthropy Curse (I don't rightly remember where it is in the books).

Razorwing is correct that most "were-creatures" are races of 'were-people'.
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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

Unread post by Glistam »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Mutants might be susceptible to the Lycanthropy Curse (I don't rightly remember where it is in the books).

Razorwing is correct that most "were-creatures" are races of 'were-people'.

If memory serves, the Lycanthropy Curse is in the Palladium Fantasy Mutants and Animals book.

Rifter 49 has an in-depth article on Vampires. While it isn't "official" I think it would be very much worth getting for a Heroes Unlimited game which sought to incorporate vampires.
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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

Unread post by ESREVER333 »

Can someone explain Wypires? I think that's a mixed of Vampire/Nightbane. Were they Nightbane turned into Vampire? Nightbane born mixed? Nightbane with Morpheus with Abilities that give him Vampire like abilities but not a True Vampire in a sense?
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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

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ESREVER333 wrote:Can someone explain Wypires? I think that's a mixed of Vampire/Nightbane. Were they Nightbane turned into Vampire? Nightbane born mixed? Nightbane with Morpheus with Abilities that give him Vampire like abilities but not a True Vampire in a sense?

Wypires are vampires that have not been, somehow, taken over by the Vampire Intel., but have some of the vampire powers. That is the core of what Wypires are.

That the person was a un-became NB was a theory that was suggested in the class text. There are no stated Facts about how they come about.

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In one of the rifters there are undead NB feature tables in one of the rifters. There might be some Vampire features in them.
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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

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So it's a mystery. No cold hard facts. Just rumors speculating.
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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

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I thought they had moved away from the were-beasts being a curse that can be inflicted and were a supernatural race... that one was either born a Lycanthrope or one wasn't... and that the "curse" was actually a misbelief that these beings were cursed with their affliction.

Other than Palladium Fantasy... I see no mention of a Lycanthrpic curse in any game that has supernatural elements... Nightbane, Rifts, Heroes Unlimited... or even Beyond the Supernatural (at least not that I can find).

I wonder if this is another instance of Palladium's habit of cut-and-paste editing.
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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

Unread post by eliakon »

Razorwing wrote:I thought they had moved away from the were-beasts being a curse that can be inflicted and were a supernatural race... that one was either born a Lycanthrope or one wasn't... and that the "curse" was actually a misbelief that these beings were cursed with their affliction.

Other than Palladium Fantasy... I see no mention of a Lycanthrpic curse in any game that has supernatural elements... Nightbane, Rifts, Heroes Unlimited... or even Beyond the Supernatural (at least not that I can find).

I wonder if this is another instance of Palladium's habit of cut-and-paste editing.

Basically the vast majority of weres are racial lycanthropes.
But that is not the same as 'all'.
There is a tiny number (found almost exclusively in Palladium Fantasy) that are victims of a magic curse. A magic curse that seems to be pretty much only used in those books. Just like how in Palladium Fantasy each Greatest Rune Weapon is a unique construct with unique powers, or how in Palladium Fantasy we have Life Force Magic that is no reprinted in any other book...
The different game lines are subtlety different as they tend to privilege the tropes of that world. And a fantasy trope is the 'lyanthrope curse'... so it is a PF thing.
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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

Unread post by Stone Gargoyle »

Using the Immortal category you can create vampires with whatever powers you want. Just make sure they have vulnerabilities like vampires do. You don't have to go with preset powers of a generic vampire.
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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

Unread post by Razorwing »

The OP wanted to know if a mutant could be infected/turned into these beings to get the powers of were-beasts or vampires in addition to the powers they had before... at least from what I gathered from the question.

Thus a mutant that could turn into solid rock would now have that power in addition to that gained from being a were-beast or a vampire (try shoving a wooden stake through solid stone).

He isn't asking if one can create a mutant that has were-beast or vampire-like powers (that is definitely possible)... but rather if a mutant were turned into these beings... would they become an amalgam of both... with all the powers both have (mutant powers plus were-beast/vampire abilities).
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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Razorwing wrote:I thought they had moved away from the were-beasts being a curse that can be inflicted and were a supernatural race... that one was either born a Lycanthrope or one wasn't... and that the "curse" was actually a misbelief that these beings were cursed with their affliction.

Other than Palladium Fantasy... I see no mention of a Lycanthrpic curse in any game that has supernatural elements... Nightbane, Rifts, Heroes Unlimited... or even Beyond the Supernatural (at least not that I can find).

I wonder if this is another instance of Palladium's habit of cut-and-paste editing.


If you note that the "L" curse is in the PB setting so a GM would have to import it into his/her game.
The only 'official' 'Ly' chars in HU have the 'Ly' super power.
And in NB it is presumed that any Ly. sightings are really NB with animal features. (there are were-people "children of the moon" of NB in two of the early [single digit] rifters.)
In Rifts there are one type of were-peoples "converted" from the PF1. (along with alien wolf-like shape-changers)
Then in PF2 there is another type of were-people.
no official were-beings in N&S/MC but the Infernal demons and spirit foxes could be mistaken as were-creatures since they are shape-changers.
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3G does not have any stated were-people, but it is a spin-off "rifts" setting.

Concluding…all the settings that have were-creatures, the were-people are racially passed on from parent to child through the germ-seed. But it is only the PF setting that has a curse that could be passed from one being to another like the Ly's in our "monster myths".
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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

Unread post by Stone Gargoyle »

Razorwing wrote:The OP wanted to know if a mutant could be infected/turned into these beings to get the powers of were-beasts or vampires in addition to the powers they had before... at least from what I gathered from the question.

Thus a mutant that could turn into solid rock would now have that power in addition to that gained from being a were-beast or a vampire (try shoving a wooden stake through solid stone).

He isn't asking if one can create a mutant that has were-beast or vampire-like powers (that is definitely possible)... but rather if a mutant were turned into these beings... would they become an amalgam of both... with all the powers both have (mutant powers plus were-beast/vampire abilities).
I would have to say they lose any mutant abilities in favor of the vampire or werewolf ones. There are precedents for this in comics, such as when Jubilee of the X-Men was turned.
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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

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Stone Gargoyle wrote:
Razorwing wrote:The OP wanted to know if a mutant could be infected/turned into these beings to get the powers of were-beasts or vampires in addition to the powers they had before... at least from what I gathered from the question.

Thus a mutant that could turn into solid rock would now have that power in addition to that gained from being a were-beast or a vampire (try shoving a wooden stake through solid stone).

He isn't asking if one can create a mutant that has were-beast or vampire-like powers (that is definitely possible)... but rather if a mutant were turned into these beings... would they become an amalgam of both... with all the powers both have (mutant powers plus were-beast/vampire abilities).
I would have to say they lose any mutant abilities in favor of the vampire or werewolf ones. There are precedents for this in comics, such as when Jubilee of the X-Men was turned.


Except for all the other times that they've shown mutants being turned and becoming mutants who're still super-powered and also vampires (although a bad idea for solar-powered mutants like Sunspot).
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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

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Stone Gargoyle wrote:I would have to say they lose any mutant abilities in favor of the vampire or werewolf ones. There are precedents for this in comics, such as when Jubilee of the X-Men was turned.


Jubilee had already lost her powers before she was turned into a vampire, and it's just a What If, but in the "What If... Wolverine Was Lord of The Vampires?" Vol 2 # 24 super powered characters all kept their powers while mutants. In the later Captain Britain and MI13 series Blade nearly kills Spitfire (he actually stakes her in issue 6) because of how dangerous super-powered vampires are.


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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

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Daniel Stoker wrote:
Stone Gargoyle wrote:I would have to say they lose any mutant abilities in favor of the vampire or werewolf ones. There are precedents for this in comics, such as when Jubilee of the X-Men was turned.


Jubilee had already lost her powers before she was turned into a vampire, and it's just a What If, but in the "What If... Wolverine Was Lord of The Vampires?" Vol 2 # 24 super powered characters all kept their powers while mutants. In the later Captain Britain and MI13 series Blade nearly kills Spitfire (he actually stakes her in issue 6) because of how dangerous super-powered vampires are.


Daniel Stoker


There was also the Exiles story where they had to stop a vampirized Avengers group in one what-if where Cap got turned then turned them, everyone kept their powers (and given how Heroes Unlimited defines mutants they qualify just as much as mutants as X-men style ones). It seems pretty standard in super-hero comics if they include the supernatural like vampires that a vampirized super is just that, a super who's also a vampire with the combined abilities and limitations of both.
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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

Unread post by AzathothXy »

In one of the new vampire books for Rifts, i beleive it says those turned into vamps keep 1D4 of their previous powers/abilities.
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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

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ESREVER333 wrote:I remember creating Mutant characters in the past and if memory serves correctly, Mutants are NOT immune to being Turned into Vampires and Werewolves!!! Is it possible to create 2 category Hero or Villain that's a Mutant/Vampire or Mutant/Werewolf?? Seems legal and legit!!

In HU werewolves are just people who have the major superability of lycanthropy.
Though there is a curse in palladium fantasy that can be spread by bite and turns you into a monstrous wolf on the night of the full moon who doesn't remember what he did that night.
Others have covered vamps....
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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

Unread post by Stone Gargoyle »

Nightmask wrote:
Daniel Stoker wrote:
Stone Gargoyle wrote:I would have to say they lose any mutant abilities in favor of the vampire or werewolf ones. There are precedents for this in comics, such as when Jubilee of the X-Men was turned.


Jubilee had already lost her powers before she was turned into a vampire, and it's just a What If, but in the "What If... Wolverine Was Lord of The Vampires?" Vol 2 # 24 super powered characters all kept their powers while mutants. In the later Captain Britain and MI13 series Blade nearly kills Spitfire (he actually stakes her in issue 6) because of how dangerous super-powered vampires are.


Daniel Stoker


There was also the Exiles story where they had to stop a vampirized Avengers group in one what-if where Cap got turned then turned them, everyone kept their powers (and given how Heroes Unlimited defines mutants they qualify just as much as mutants as X-men style ones). It seems pretty standard in super-hero comics if they include the supernatural like vampires that a vampirized super is just that, a super who's also a vampire with the combined abilities and limitations of both.
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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

Unread post by Daniel Stoker »

It's ok, we can't all be 'equal' nerds about everything. ;)


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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

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While I do like the rather "creative" interpretations people are coming up with... since this is dealing with the Palladium Megaverse, I would suggest we keep it to using the rules for vampirism and lycanthropy present in the Palladium game lines. While it is entertaining to see how Marvel and DC Comics have added vampires and lycanthropes to their universes, such examples bare no real precedence for any characters in Palladium... Palladium tends to treat vampires and lycanthropes in a very different way.

In the case of Vampires... the Official Vampires as presented in Rifts and other games like Nightbane and such, any mortal species that can be turned into a vampire looses any special abilities they had from before their transformation in favor of their new Vampire abilities. The one exception to this is spell magic... Master and Secondary Vampires retain their knowledge of spells to some degree (Secondary Vampires retain half the spells they knew) but their knowledge is permanently frozen at the level they were before being turned into Vampires and will never increase or gain new spells. Furthermore, their PPE reserve is based on their Vampire Transformation... whether that is now more or less than it was before their transformation.

Vampires do tend to retain some of the skills they had previously, with Masters retaining all their previous skills, Secondary retaining some (10) and Wild vampires retaining only a handful (WP, Piloting and Language mostly). Most loose any scholastic bonuses they had, and while they do gain new skills in time... nearly all are frozen at 1st level proficiency.

So what does this mean for a Mutant? Provided that their powers do not give them an immunity to being turned into a Vampire (some powers have been notes as providing such immunity) and the Vampire can get past their other powers (kind of difficult to drain the blood from someone when transformed into stone, metal or other substances), then the mutant in question can be turned into a vampire... loosing all mutant powers as they are reborn as a Vampire. They will retain none of their previous powers... having them replaced with the various Vampire Powers and Psionics. There will be NO melding of abilities... the character effectively stops being a mutant and is now a Vampire.

Now... Lycanthropy is a totally different kind of beast... if one pardons the pun. In most cases... Lycanthropes are their own species of supernatural creatures... with their own powers and vulnerabilities. As mentioned above... some Mutants have the power to take on a Lycanthropic form... but this should not be confused with True Lycanthropy as these mutants are still vulnerable to regular damage (true were-beasts are immune to all mundane weapons) and can not change into large versions of their respective animals (like True Lycanthropes can). Mutants can NOT be turned into these kinds of Lycanthropes as this is not a curse or transformation, but a biological (albeit supernatural) species... just as one can not be transformed into an Elf or a Dwarf, one is either born a True Lycanthrope or one isn't. Of course, mutants with the Lycanthrope Power may be confused with True Lycanthropes... and their "vulnerability" to the full moon may give the illusion that such mutants are under the effects of a "curse".

Now... as has been mentioned above, there is one sole example of a Lycanthropic curse from the Palladium Fantasy game line. This version can be passed on to any mortal being (apparently)... and thus it is possible that this curse could infect mutants in the HU universe. Now... while this will give such a mutant a power much like the Lycanthrope Major Power, one has to remember that they are only changed on nights of the Full Moon (which depending on your particular GM, may be 1 to 3 nights a month) with no control of their character... and are likely only to rely on their Lycanthropic form (their bestial nature at this time and in this form means it is unlikely they be able to use any other powers the mutant has). In this rare case, the character still isn't a hybrid of Mutant and Lycanthrope... merely a mutant with a rare magical curse (and it may be some time before they or others discover their affliction since the mutant won't remember the time s/he transforms... and if not captured by others, it will be a month before the next opportunity to do so comes around).

These are from the official rules of Palladium, based on what they have decided these conditions are like in the Palladium Megaverse. This isn't like it is in the Marvel or DC universes where mutants and other supers can retain their powers with the addition of vampirism or lycanthropy... in most cases in the Palladium megaverse, one is either one or the other... not both.
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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

Unread post by AzathothXy »

Are super powers considered natural abilities?
In the revised Vampire Kingdoms book vamps now retain 1D4 'special' natural abilities of their old, mortal form. Though these to the demands of the vampire: no aquatic or amphibious abilities, can't survive water or sunlight, can't be impervious to wood or silver, can't transform into water or any element,etc.
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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

Unread post by Razorwing »

While I have not authority to say so officially, I would rule that Super Powers are not natural to the human race. Mutation, by its very nature and definition is unnatural... and the powers gained by one such individual through such a process is not guaranteed to grant anyone else the same, similar or any powers. Even those few rare mutants that are born with their powers... either already on or latent until later in life... wouldn't be considered "natural" in that their gifts are not the norm for the human race.

Even if someone with the authority to say so officially were to rule such abilities as "natural" to the one using them... I would still rule against Vampires retaining Super Powers from mutants and other mortal beings... as the potential power combinations can be quite overpowering... and those that aren't tend to be redundant given the Vampire's already impressive powers.

As it stands they already have the equivalent of Invulnerability, Supernatural Strength, limited Shapeshifting (including the power to change into mist- sort of a lesser version of APS: Vapor/Fog/Air), Super Regeneration and Immortality... plus Psionic Powers. Now imagine adding a Major Power like Multiple Selves, Multiple Lives, Control Elemental Forces (any), Sonic Speed, Shrinking, Growth and similar powers to such a being... and you have a being that is almost impossible to stop.

At best, I might allow a Master Vampire to retain one such power it had previously... just to give players a challenge... but Players who are turned into Secondary or Wild Vampires would loose all such Powers in favor of their vampiric powers. Remember... this (retaining super powers) would be an exception to the rule.
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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

Unread post by Nightmask »

Razorwing wrote:While I have not authority to say so officially, I would rule that Super Powers are not natural to the human race. Mutation, by its very nature and definition is unnatural... and the powers gained by one such individual through such a process is not guaranteed to grant anyone else the same, similar or any powers. Even those few rare mutants that are born with their powers... either already on or latent until later in life... wouldn't be considered "natural" in that their gifts are not the norm for the human race.

Even if someone with the authority to say so officially were to rule such abilities as "natural" to the one using them... I would still rule against Vampires retaining Super Powers from mutants and other mortal beings... as the potential power combinations can be quite overpowering... and those that aren't tend to be redundant given the Vampire's already impressive powers.

As it stands they already have the equivalent of Invulnerability, Supernatural Strength, limited Shapeshifting (including the power to change into mist- sort of a lesser version of APS: Vapor/Fog/Air), Super Regeneration and Immortality... plus Psionic Powers. Now imagine adding a Major Power like Multiple Selves, Multiple Lives, Control Elemental Forces (any), Sonic Speed, Shrinking, Growth and similar powers to such a being... and you have a being that is almost impossible to stop.

At best, I might allow a Master Vampire to retain one such power it had previously... just to give players a challenge... but Players who are turned into Secondary or Wild Vampires would loose all such Powers in favor of their vampiric powers. Remember... this (retaining super powers) would be an exception to the rule.


Mutation isn't unnatural though, it's very much natural. It's how life adapts and changes in order to survive. It isn't always for the better (brittle bone disease), sometimes it's a mixed blessing (sickle cell disease), sometimes it's a complete success (the mutation that confers resistance or outright immunity to bubonic plague and HIV) but it's part of the natural process of life. In fantastic settings like Heroes Unlimited it can provide more fantastic changes but it's still natural.
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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

Unread post by eliakon »

AzathothXy wrote:Are super powers considered natural abilities?
In the revised Vampire Kingdoms book vamps now retain 1D4 'special' natural abilities of their old, mortal form. Though these to the demands of the vampire: no aquatic or amphibious abilities, can't survive water or sunlight, can't be impervious to wood or silver, can't transform into water or any element,etc.

No they are not.
They are subject to the 'negate super powers' ability which means they are not natural.
Certain Aliens do have super powers as natural abilities, but for a mutant, they are not natural abilities as they are not natural to the race.
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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

Unread post by Nightmask »

eliakon wrote:
AzathothXy wrote:Are super powers considered natural abilities?
In the revised Vampire Kingdoms book vamps now retain 1D4 'special' natural abilities of their old, mortal form. Though these to the demands of the vampire: no aquatic or amphibious abilities, can't survive water or sunlight, can't be impervious to wood or silver, can't transform into water or any element,etc.


No they are not.
They are subject to the 'negate super powers' ability which means they are not natural.
Certain Aliens do have super powers as natural abilities, but for a mutant, they are not natural abilities as they are not natural to the race.


That's really arbitrary. At what point is something natural to a race? Mutation is natural to a race so the products of it must be natural. Hemophilia is a natural part of the human race even if it isn't something that affects most humans. In the My Hero Academia manga and anime roughly 80% of the human race has super-powers would you rate that as not natural because 20% are still non-powered humans? Maybe the 20% aren't natural.
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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

Unread post by eliakon »

Nightmask wrote:
eliakon wrote:
AzathothXy wrote:Are super powers considered natural abilities?
In the revised Vampire Kingdoms book vamps now retain 1D4 'special' natural abilities of their old, mortal form. Though these to the demands of the vampire: no aquatic or amphibious abilities, can't survive water or sunlight, can't be impervious to wood or silver, can't transform into water or any element,etc.


No they are not.
They are subject to the 'negate super powers' ability which means they are not natural.
Certain Aliens do have super powers as natural abilities, but for a mutant, they are not natural abilities as they are not natural to the race.


That's really arbitrary. At what point is something natural to a race? Mutation is natural to a race so the products of it must be natural. Hemophilia is a natural part of the human race even if it isn't something that affects most humans. In the My Hero Academia manga and anime roughly 80% of the human race has super-powers would you rate that as not natural because 20% are still non-powered humans? Maybe the 20% aren't natural.

That's not HU though is it :lol:
No, seriously I don't care about some other IP because the rules that they use for how things work in that IP are going to be different.

In the Palladium IP super powers are explicitly not natural abilities because we are flat out told that in the cases where they are considered to be natural abilities that a certain game mechanic is applied (specifically that natural abilities are not subject to Negate Super Ability'). That sort of means that in Palladium, they are not natural abilities as Palladium defines them. Period. Dot. End of sentence.

It doesn't matter what some other manga, or comic, or anime, or movie, or TV show, or book does or says... those aren't Palladium. Just like I can't point to A Certain Magical Index and say that obviously magic and psionics are the flip side of the same force and that you can't possess them both at the same time. Or I can't go to Marvel comics (80s) and say that obviously super powers are based on a uniform genetic gene that you either have or do not have...
...because those are not Palladiums rules.

A person running a game of course can use what ever material they like to build their personal game world and in the process change what ever they see fit to change. But that is their game and their game only, it has no affect on how the actual rules, as they are written, are, well... written.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

Unread post by Stone Gargoyle »

AzathothXy wrote:Are super powers considered natural abilities?
In the revised Vampire Kingdoms book vamps now retain 1D4 'special' natural abilities of their old, mortal form. Though these to the demands of the vampire: no aquatic or amphibious abilities, can't survive water or sunlight, can't be impervious to wood or silver, can't transform into water or any element,etc.
I would think that it very much depends on how they got their powers. If they are an alien, then their powers would be natural abilities. Mutant powers depend on how they gained their powers, whether affected by an outside source or mutagen, or whether they have a genetic code which gives them their powers and if that gene can be turned off or not.
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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

Unread post by RockJock »

PB is going to have multiple examples that make sense in the situation. Are their Vampire Intelligence style vamps in HU?


I always took psychics as mutants, even those with minor powers.
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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

Unread post by Daniel Stoker »

I say no... but I dislike Palladium's vampires and go with my own versions of them.

As to psychics, they can be mutants if you roll that on the Mutant chart but otherwise via Palladium's rules they're 'regular' humans who've tapped into the powers of the mind.


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Re: Can Mutants be Turned??

Unread post by Axelmania »

Nightmask wrote:
Stone Gargoyle wrote:
Razorwing wrote:The OP wanted to know if a mutant could be infected/turned into these beings to get the powers of were-beasts or vampires in addition to the powers they had before... at least from what I gathered from the question.

Thus a mutant that could turn into solid rock would now have that power in addition to that gained from being a were-beast or a vampire (try shoving a wooden stake through solid stone).

He isn't asking if one can create a mutant that has were-beast or vampire-like powers (that is definitely possible)... but rather if a mutant were turned into these beings... would they become an amalgam of both... with all the powers both have (mutant powers plus were-beast/vampire abilities).
I would have to say they lose any mutant abilities in favor of the vampire or werewolf ones. There are precedents for this in comics, such as when Jubilee of the X-Men was turned.


Except for all the other times that they've shown mutants being turned and becoming mutants who're still super-powered and also vampires (although a bad idea for solar-powered mutants like Sunspot).

This also happened in part 1 of Return to the Spider-verse, Lizard King had the normal powers of Lizard with a vampire on top of them. Becoming a vampire didn't revert him to Kurt Connors.
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