Skills for a Actor/Musician

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Razorwing
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Skills for a Actor/Musician

Unread post by Razorwing »

Trying to think of the skills an NPC will need to fulfill her role as a Singer/Musician/Actor type. The Singer/Musician part is fairly easy... Singing, Dance, Play Musical Instrument (one or more likely but not needed)... even Grooming/Wardrobe to look one's best could come in handy... basically a Domestic Skill Program for this. However... the acting part is a little more difficult to figure out as there aren't many "acting" skills I can find in most Palladium game lines... the closest I can find is Performance and possibly Public Speaking (both of which fall into different categories depending on which game the skill is in).

Other skills that could prove useful are a number of Physical Skills (as these individuals tend to keep in shape... and can help with stuns... both on stage and in movies), Hand to Hand and Weapon Proficiencies (to make any fights in movies look real one does need to know how to perform such actions... and also so as not to harm fellow actors). Not sure what other skills could be useful, but in all honesty many are likely useful, depending on the type of actor one seeks to be (action, comedian, romantic, etc.)

Not sure if the character will have made it into the "big time" just yet... or if she is on the verge of doing so when she is first encountered. Of course, she is going to have her own "secret" edge that has helped her be noticed and reach the heights she has in so short a time... but whether anyone discovers that or not is beyond the scope of this discussion (at least for the time being).

For now I would like to hear what others feel would be acceptable skill programs (and what skills to get within them) for her to follow this route.
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

Unread post by RockJock »

If this is a modern performer think about things like the Communication Program. TV/Video, Radio Basic, and Computer Operations all make sense for people setting up concerts, and performances.

Impersonation and Disguise out of Espionage might be stretching things a bit, bout would make sense from an actor. Same with Seduction.

Art, Business & Finance, Law, Photography, Research, and Writing are all technical skills that I could see a professional actor having.
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

Unread post by Razorwing »

This brings up another question I am curious about... Professional Quality.

The Domestic Skill category in most of Palladium Games state that players can select these skills twice to attain Professional Quality (gaining a 10% bonus in doing so)... but it doesn't say if this is for Scholastic (Skill Programs) or Secondary skills. No other skill category makes mention of this... or even offers it as an option.

Should one consider Domestic Skills taken as part of a Skill Program (formal training) be considered Professional Quality regardless of whether the skill is take twice or not... and that the Professional Quality bonus only applies when such skills are taken as Secondary Skills (as explained in After the Bomb)? What of other Secondary Skills (which are usually limited to a few skills)... could they also benefit from such additional training (like Art from the Technical Category for example)? True... some Secondary Skill selections will never be as good as Scholastic training... or there really won't be much of a bonus if one were to do so (such as with Physical Skills)... but there are some skills that could make sense (like the self-taught computer expert/hacker who learned Computer Operation and Programing on his own).
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

The OCC skills for the actor class in PF2 highseas are..
public speaking
imitate voices & impersonation
disguise/make-up
dance
mine
lang. Nat & 2 others
Lit. one
sign language
writing
stage carpentry, lighting & assembly*
sew (for making/altering stage costumes)
wp sword (for stage fighting)
h2h basic (for believable stage fights)
horsemanship: gen.

*found on page 8 of highseas.

There are also the jesting skill ( "playing the fool" and the clowning skill (specialized pf acting skill for PF for a set of Guild IP protected plays. "False Clowns" (those who perform outside the guild) are killed by guild or governmental assassins.)
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

Razorwing wrote: the acting part is a little more difficult to figure out as there aren't many "acting" skills I can find in most Palladium game lines... the closest I can find is Performance and possibly Public Speaking (both of which fall into different categories depending on which game the skill is in).

Imitate Voices and Impersonation (depending on when/where could be two separate skills or a single skill) are ideal for handling acting, as that is a good way to sum up what the character is actually doing. You probably do want to combine that with Public Speaking (doesn't call out actors, but would still be a feature I think and Performance (calls out actors).

Other skills they posses are probably more elective, not every actor does or needs to do fight scenes or ride a horse. They probably do have some physical skills to stay in shape/tone.

Razorwing wrote:Should one consider Domestic Skills taken as part of a Skill Program (formal training) be considered Professional Quality regardless of whether the skill is take twice or not... and that the Professional Quality bonus only applies when such skills are taken as Secondary Skills (as explained in After the Bomb)? What of other Secondary Skills (which are usually limited to a few skills)... could they also benefit from such additional training (like Art from the Technical Category for example)? True... some Secondary Skill selections will never be as good as Scholastic training... or there really won't be much of a bonus if one were to do so (such as with Physical Skills)... but there are some skills that could make sense (like the self-taught computer expert/hacker who learned Computer Operation and Programing on his own).


I want to say it depends on the Education Level/Occupation of the character would determine if it was professional or not, even if it wasn't stated as such for free. However, I have to say no because Palladium does seem to go with designating the upgradable skills when they are upgraded. (I base this megaversally, not HU-verse).

Robotech RPG 2E, Macross Saga SourceBook has the Entertainer Package for Civilians (pg229manga), but the package seems overly general to cover a wide range ("comedians to stage and screen actors to idol singers to circus clowns. Weather part of a traveling theatre troupe, a piano player in a cocktail lounge..." with a single package. It also notes that some of the domestic skills (Music Instrument, Sing) are Professional Quality, but not all the Domestic Skills are (Dance, Wardrobe & Grooming).
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

Unread post by Nightmask »

ShadowLogan wrote:I want to say it depends on the Education Level/Occupation of the character would determine if it was professional or not, even if it wasn't stated as such for free. However, I have to say no because Palladium does seem to go with designating the upgradable skills when they are upgraded. (I base this megaversally, not HU-verse).

Robotech RPG 2E, Macross Saga SourceBook has the Entertainer Package for Civilians (pg229manga), but the package seems overly general to cover a wide range ("comedians to stage and screen actors to idol singers to circus clowns. Weather part of a traveling theatre troupe, a piano player in a cocktail lounge..." with a single package. It also notes that some of the domestic skills (Music Instrument, Sing) are Professional Quality, but not all the Domestic Skills are (Dance, Wardrobe & Grooming).


Except we see text that refers to scholastic skills being professional quality with secondary versions as non-professional and requiring taking it twice to become professional quality. So if you took Cooking as part of your Domestic skill package from scholastic training it would be considered professional grade but you can also have professional grade as a self-taught amateur if you take Cooking twice as a secondary skill.
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

Unread post by Razorwing »

The only place where I have actually seen Domestic Skills specifically stated as being Professional Quality if taken as Scholasitc or if taken twice as Secondary is with the After the Bomb setting. In all other instances, the Domestic skill section only mentions you get Professional Quality if the skill is taken twice (but doesn't say if that applies to Scholastic or Secondary).

I have a hard time believing that someone who learns to Sing as part of a Domestic Skill program (formal Scholastic training) will be considered an amateur while someone who takes Sing twice as a Secondary (no formal training needed) will be seen as a professional... especially since someone who takes Electrical Engineering from a formal program (Skill Program) is seen as a professional electrician.
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

Unread post by Razorwing »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:The OCC skills for the actor class in PF2 highseas are..
public speaking
imitate voices & impersonation
disguise/make-up
dance
mine
lang. Nat & 2 others
Lit. one
sign language
writing
stage carpentry, lighting & assembly*
sew (for making/altering stage costumes)
wp sword (for stage fighting)
h2h basic (for believable stage fights)
horsemanship: gen.

*found on page 8 of highseas.

There are also the jesting skill ( "playing the fool" and the clowning skill (specialized pf acting skill for PF for a set of Guild IP protected plays. "False Clowns" (those who perform outside the guild) are killed by guild or governmental assassins.)


I did look this OCC up when I first started looking for information... and while there is a lot of skills... they don't really fit into a Modern Setting like HU. This is your fantasy style actor who often wore many hats... did their own make-up and made their own costumes... built their own sets and did their own stunts.

Modern Actors are not quite the same as those that came before them. Now you have specialists to design the make-up, sets, costumes and even someone to do the stunts (and even fight for the actor). True, you will on occasion find an actor who learns to do their own stunts/fighting, can help with set or costume design or even knows how to operate the recording equipment... but they tend to be the exception rather than the rule.

In most schools art schools, the work is divided up between different classes. Costumes will be made by fashion students, make-up may be done by those training as a make-up artist, and set design would be more of an Art class project than a Drama Class one. The entire school is likely working towards the final product... with some students in multiple roles... but not always. You just have to look at shows like FAME! and such to see how specialized these roles have become.

More than that though... with in the HU skill rules... it is very difficult to get many of these skills... even with a Doctorate (the most skill programs and Secondary Skills... not to mention the highest scholastic bonus)... as these skills are often in vastly different areas... some of which are very difficult for most Scholastic levels to get (Rogue and Espionage skills are a prime example).

Most skill programs tend to have 4 or 5 skills available so I think a Performing Arts type skill program is likely to include the following: Performance, Public Speaking and 2 or 3 skills of choice from Communication, Domestic Technical, Espionage or Rogue (the latter two at 1/2 the usual scholastic bonus since they are less common... and if Journalists who take a second program have to take such a penalty for espionage skills, seems fair that Actors should too... they aren't being trained as soldiers after all... even if they play one on TV). This would allow give the rudiments on acting (or at least help to guide actors) and also allow for some to specialize in Make-Up artistry (combination of both Disguise and Artist skills), directing (TV/Video and/or Radio), Costume Design (Sewing and/or Wardrobe/Grooming)... and could even specialize in Musical/Opera Performances (by adding Singing) or Ballet (Dancing) and other specialized areas of acting. Some skills may be restricted from such choices at a GM's discretion (does an actor need to know Electronic Counter Measures, Find Contraband or other skills that don't really fit with "acting" or actors?)

Does this sound like a reasonable "Performing Arts" Skill Package?
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

Unread post by eliakon »

Rifter #30 has an article on skills, which while unofficial is useful
It has various levels of expertise based on what sort of skill slot is used and how many slots are spent.
This ranges from one secondary skill (you read about animals in your spare time) to three OCC Related skills (Jane Goodall)
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

Unread post by Razorwing »

While I agree that there are exceptional individuals out there, I don't agree with the way that article tries to model it in the game. Yes, such people do exist in the real world, but the way this article models it is that such people sacrificed other skills to become good at one... which, unless you are one of the few people with the Savant Syndrome (can perform a few skills at amazing levels, but can barely function outside of those few skills)... most of these exceptional individuals still have the range of skill one would expect from such a profession.

In other words, these prodigies didn't sacrifice skills to become amazing at a few.

I would more likely model such prodigies along the lines of the Special Aptitude Bonus table found in some books like the Nightbane Survival Guide. The Fast Learner or Jack of Many Trades which gives 1d4+1 extra Scholasic Skills (basically an extra Skill Program for Heroes Unlimited characters) or +10% to 4 skills already known in (addition to their usual bonus) would easily model such prodigies that are more skilled than they should be at their experience level... I'd even let them combine those 4 +10% bonuses into 2 +20%, 1 +30% and 1 +10% or even 1 +40%... depending how narrowly focused they want to be.

This would also help model other special aptitudes many people have that wouldn't fall into actual skills... which the Rifter article can't really help with. Simply put... the Rifter article, while it does attempt to give a means to model this kind of aptitude, it still falls a little short of it (and is geared more towards games with specific OCCs rather than Scholastic levels found in Heroes Unlimited).
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

Unread post by Razorwing »

I've refined my idea for a Performing Arts skill program


Performing Arts Program
Performance
Public Speaking
2 skills of choice from the Communications, Domestic, Espionage (at half the usual bonus), Rogue or Technical categories.

If taken additional times, one can select 3 additional skills from the above categories. GM are encouraged to use discretion as which skills are allowed to be selected as the individual is learning skills that can help in acting and various performing arts... not to be a spy or criminal. If a player can't justify why a skill would be learned in such a setting, the GM should question allowing its selection.
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

Unread post by eliakon »

Razorwing wrote:While I agree that there are exceptional individuals out there, I don't agree with the way that article tries to model it in the game. Yes, such people do exist in the real world, but the way this article models it is that such people sacrificed other skills to become good at one... which, unless you are one of the few people with the Savant Syndrome (can perform a few skills at amazing levels, but can barely function outside of those few skills)... most of these exceptional individuals still have the range of skill one would expect from such a profession.

In other words, these prodigies didn't sacrifice skills to become amazing at a few.

I would more likely model such prodigies along the lines of the Special Aptitude Bonus table found in some books like the Nightbane Survival Guide. The Fast Learner or Jack of Many Trades which gives 1d4+1 extra Scholasic Skills (basically an extra Skill Program for Heroes Unlimited characters) or +10% to 4 skills already known in (addition to their usual bonus) would easily model such prodigies that are more skilled than they should be at their experience level... I'd even let them combine those 4 +10% bonuses into 2 +20%, 1 +30% and 1 +10% or even 1 +40%... depending how narrowly focused they want to be.

This would also help model other special aptitudes many people have that wouldn't fall into actual skills... which the Rifter article can't really help with. Simply put... the Rifter article, while it does attempt to give a means to model this kind of aptitude, it still falls a little short of it (and is geared more towards games with specific OCCs rather than Scholastic levels found in Heroes Unlimited).

Now I see it the other way
The skill set up in the game is already geared toward the idea of having a fairly limited number of skills.
But I am not looking at level 1 superstars. That might be a prodigy... and yes those sorts of people ARE fairly shallow in skills
I am looking at "I took my level up skills in my main field and so I am now a superstar at it, instead of also learning how to pick locks fence and read Etruscan"
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

Unread post by Razorwing »

eliakon wrote:
Razorwing wrote:While I agree that there are exceptional individuals out there, I don't agree with the way that article tries to model it in the game. Yes, such people do exist in the real world, but the way this article models it is that such people sacrificed other skills to become good at one... which, unless you are one of the few people with the Savant Syndrome (can perform a few skills at amazing levels, but can barely function outside of those few skills)... most of these exceptional individuals still have the range of skill one would expect from such a profession.

In other words, these prodigies didn't sacrifice skills to become amazing at a few.

I would more likely model such prodigies along the lines of the Special Aptitude Bonus table found in some books like the Nightbane Survival Guide. The Fast Learner or Jack of Many Trades which gives 1d4+1 extra Scholasic Skills (basically an extra Skill Program for Heroes Unlimited characters) or +10% to 4 skills already known in (addition to their usual bonus) would easily model such prodigies that are more skilled than they should be at their experience level... I'd even let them combine those 4 +10% bonuses into 2 +20%, 1 +30% and 1 +10% or even 1 +40%... depending how narrowly focused they want to be.

This would also help model other special aptitudes many people have that wouldn't fall into actual skills... which the Rifter article can't really help with. Simply put... the Rifter article, while it does attempt to give a means to model this kind of aptitude, it still falls a little short of it (and is geared more towards games with specific OCCs rather than Scholastic levels found in Heroes Unlimited).

Now I see it the other way
The skill set up in the game is already geared toward the idea of having a fairly limited number of skills.
But I am not looking at level 1 superstars. That might be a prodigy... and yes those sorts of people ARE fairly shallow in skills
I am looking at "I took my level up skills in my main field and so I am now a superstar at it, instead of also learning how to pick locks fence and read Etruscan"


The thing is... Heroes Unlimited characters don't get new skills as they level (other than Secondary Skills)... it is actually very difficult for a HU character to get new scholastic level skills, thus the skills they get at the start is more or less all they will likely get for as long as that character is played. And this is just for a human character... aliens, mutants (human and animal) and robots (AIs) will have an even more difficult time... due to their natures (and some prejudice against them). Suffice it to say, this method wasn't really designed for the Heroes Unlimited game.
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

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Unless they are going back to school....There are rules for classes from scholastic work.
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

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Like I said... very difficult rules for getting new scholastic level skills (4-6 hours a week per skill, +6-10 hours of homework a week per skill; miss 3 assignments and you fail... no refund... and all for the skills at base skill level +5% per 3 successful semesters, up to 9 total for +15%).

Hours will be during standard school hours usually (8 am to 4 pm, Monday to Friday); rarely, even in a modern (2017) setting will one find classes that can fit around a job and crime fighting. Homework is a little easier to juggle... but even then, a job to pay for schooling and crime fighting will eat into that as well.

So let's take an average skill program that teaches 5 skills... that's 20 to 30 hours a week (Monday to Friday). In that time, one also has to find time to sleep, eat and work. Let's say that, for simplicity, the character is working part time (6 hours a day, Monday to Friday) and is healthy and young enough to get away with only 6 hours of sleep a night. This leaves 12 hours for school (5 classes total, each requiring about 1 hour a day for a total of 5 hours a day, Monday to Friday)... leaving only 7 hours. Put in one hour a day, per skill for homework (for a total of 7 hours a week for each skill), still leaves only 2 hours free time from Monday to Friday (here there is some wiggle room as one could put more time into homework on the weekends since one doesn't often work or go to school then).

Of course there is the time table then... 8 am to 4 pm for school (classes will be at set times during this period, though it may be possible to find classes when one needs more flexibility). Work will often be after school... 5 pm to 11 pm... then one also needs sleep... (say from 1 am to 7 am)... and this isn't taking into account homework (some of which could be done during school hours when not in class).

Doesn't leave a lot of time to be a hero, does it?
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

Unread post by Nightmask »

Razorwing wrote:Like I said... very difficult rules for getting new scholastic level skills (4-6 hours a week per skill, +6-10 hours of homework a week per skill; miss 3 assignments and you fail... no refund... and all for the skills at base skill level +5% per 3 successful semesters, up to 9 total for +15%).

Hours will be during standard school hours usually (8 am to 4 pm, Monday to Friday); rarely, even in a modern (2017) setting will one find classes that can fit around a job and crime fighting. Homework is a little easier to juggle... but even then, a job to pay for schooling and crime fighting will eat into that as well.

So let's take an average skill program that teaches 5 skills... that's 20 to 30 hours a week (Monday to Friday). In that time, one also has to find time to sleep, eat and work. Let's say that, for simplicity, the character is working part time (6 hours a day, Monday to Friday) and is healthy and young enough to get away with only 6 hours of sleep a night. This leaves 12 hours for school (5 classes total, each requiring about 1 hour a day for a total of 5 hours a day, Monday to Friday)... leaving only 7 hours. Put in one hour a day, per skill for homework (for a total of 7 hours a week for each skill), still leaves only 2 hours free time from Monday to Friday (here there is some wiggle room as one could put more time into homework on the weekends since one doesn't often work or go to school then).

Of course there is the time table then... 8 am to 4 pm for school (classes will be at set times during this period, though it may be possible to find classes when one needs more flexibility). Work will often be after school... 5 pm to 11 pm... then one also needs sleep... (say from 1 am to 7 am)... and this isn't taking into account homework (some of which could be done during school hours when not in class).

Doesn't leave a lot of time to be a hero, does it?


Something that's not particularly reflective of what at least some people are capable of either, I remember in college one Japanese student had so many credits and overlapping classes that he almost never showed up for our Differential Calculus class except for tests and passed fine. You'd think that at least the 16+ IQ guy wouldn't require the same degree of study focus as the guy with a 9.
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

Unread post by RockJock »

Going back to school for skills has rules in the main book, but the use of common sense with those rules, and the flavor of your game changes things a great deal. For example, many physical skills have after business hours classes and clubs that can teach the skill(general athletics, boxing, running, climbing, body building, swimming, and SCUBA for example of easily found classes). On the flip side, good luck finding an Ivy League class on Skin & Prepare Animal Hides, or WP Pistol for the other end of things.

I don't want characters to be skill monsters, but a player who has a legit reason for his character to pick up a few, skills, especially skills on the available secondary list as the character grows isn't going to unbalance anything in my game.

I've been known to allow an extra "basic super academy" program to cover the guy who as a 30 year old in his chosen profession finds a magic ring, or gets blasted by an alien ray and gets super powers, but doesn't have any practical crime fighting skill, again not in the rules.
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

Unread post by Razorwing »

The focus of Heroes Unlimited has always been more towards the special abilities (Powers, Psionics, Magic, Gadgets and such) that the characters have. Skills, even for the Power Categories that have more of a reliance on them, have generally been secondary to all the other abilities one has. Hardware characters tend to focus more on the "Special" Skill they get from their category than the skills they actually learned... as the tend to be higher and cover many of the areas that their regular skills cover.

Secondary skills can be learned as a character advances through levels... I believe the rate is 2 new skills every 3rd level or so. There will always be "Professional" classes available for some skills... depending on what one wishes to learn (the most likely way one is going to learn Military or Espionage skills is to join a Military... and good luck carrying on with a Super Hero career that way). Even Gyms usually don't stay open 24/7... they will have regular hours just like schools do... though there may be some difference in times... but one still has to juggle both a job/career, heroics and learning... and all too often one of these will give. How many times has Peter Parker chosen to leave his studies behind to focus more on his job and/or being Spider-Man?

Yes, people with exceptional IQ may require less time in classes and/or less time studying... but attendance will still be required in most places. Many schools these days don't care if you are passing the course or such... if you don't attend class, you fail. You may be so smart that you have memorized the text book... but if you aren't going to use your seat in class, there is someone else that will.

Regardless... most HU games (at least the one's I've played or run) rarely see players bother with getting any new skills... simply because one's abilities tend to cover whatever is needed... or someone else in the team has an ability to do so. If no one does... such as no one learning any medical skills (first aid or paramedics... medical doctor is rare), then chances are they will be provided with a contact who has such a skill (from a free clinic doctor that helps the neighborhood the players protect to a paramedic who they've encountered from time to time who can give them basic medical help). Never have I seen a player request to learn new scholastic level skills or training... even when the group was part of a Government program that could easily provide such training. Most players tend to be satisfied with the skills and powers they receive... and focus more on the use of those abilities than trying to acquire more skills. Even when in a High School like setting (such as with X-Men Evolution or the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon), the focus is more on learning to control and perfect one's powers than it is on gaining new scholastic skills. Simply put... gaining new scholastic skills in HU is difficult, time consuming and potentially expensive... and usually not much fun to role-play through when one could be out pounding some villain into the dirt (something learning new skills also has a way of getting in the way of).

Regardless of how one see this though, this subject has veered quite a ways from its original intent. Since no one has commented on the Performing Arts Skill Program I presented above, I take it no one sees any problems with it as presented?
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

Unread post by RockJock »

I wouldn't have a problem with the basic skill program you outlined. I would limited the Rogue/Espionage skills a bit. I don't see Safecracking/Sniper as viable skills for a performer. Most Technical skills I can buy.
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

Unread post by Razorwing »

Hence the GM approval needed... that the skills chosen should in some way reflect the time of performance art that the character will be performing.

Safecracking, along with pick locks and escape artist may be useful for a Houdini-like escape artist performer. Sniper might be used for a trickshot type performer (for a wild west type show).
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

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I'm not saying the skills wouldn't be helpful, I just don't see them as the kind of skills taught to a performing artist. In my game they would be limited. Rogue and Espionage skills are not very common in standard skill packages. A Houdini or Wild West show character is pretty well covered by the Stage Magician and Weapons Expert in my games.

If it works in your games go for it.
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

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Not every Houdini is a Stage Magician category hero. Not every sharpshooter is a Weapons Expert category hero. By this reasoning... why bother with espionage skill packages as the whole spy thing is covered by Secret Operative category. Super-Soldiers could easily cover the whole Military training aspect. Hell... while we're at it we might as well get rid of Mechanical, Computer and Electrical skills since we could easily say that all electricians, mechanics and computer technicians fall into the Hardware category.

Starting to see how limited your view of what a character or non-heroic NPC may be like? If all members of a profession have the skills to be a hero... then how are PCs and NPC heroes special?

My point is that there are many people who perform escape artist tricks or sharpshooting in the world without having the level of training these categories get... let alone any desire to be a hero. Why limit these professions to just those who could be heroes? Sure... a stage magician hero could be one of the greatest performers around... but his assistants (or apprentices) likely aren't quite as skilled as he is... but are still capable performers (at least to a degree). Are you going to treat them all as if they had the same training (effectively making a sizable portion of his entourage Stage Magician Heroes), or will the majority likely only have a smaller skill set like that provided by this Performing Arts package? Is every sharpshooter in Hollywood (or performing elsewhere) going to be a Weapons Expert or are most of them going to make due with a more limited skill set?

Just because some Power Category sub-sets could conceivably make it as performers of one sort or another does not mean that all such performers will belong to those Power Categories. Most performers likely have little interest in becoming actual heroes... or acquiring all the skills of these Power Categories... as many of those skills aren't needed for their performances.

The point I am making is that like a Journalist, Performing Artists will acquire skills that are unusual for many civilians to possess... skills one would normally associate with spies or criminals. Yes, the player and GM would need to discuss what sort of Performance Art the character is learning... and justify some of the skills... but then it is no different than with a Journalist (who are one of the few professions that can also get Rogue and Espionage skills without being a spy or a criminal). This isn't a blank check to create a spy (or criminal) who pretends to be an actor... but rather allows a little leeway for players to get creative with just what type of performer their character could be. In my games, players would have to explain why their performance actor character needs a skill like Detect Ambush, Streetwise or Computer Hacking... how it will help them in their performances (rather than their heroics), since the chances are they learned these skills before they got their "powers".
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

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We are looking at it from different angles. I tend to think of skill programs as the result of formal schooling, or some sort of trade school type thing. Availability of Espionage and Rogue skills are very limited in HU as secondary skills, as well as the ability to take them as programs.


As you said earlier, gamemaster's fiat. If you like the program use it. For me I would need to limit the Espionage and Rogue skills the performer can pick from.
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

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Yes, they are... hence why only certain programs offer them. Performing Arts is very much a specialty training... entire schools are devoted just to them and provide many specialized training courses that are similar to those that would be offered to spies or learned by criminals.

I am beginning to wonder if you read past the initial skills the program offered. It was clearly stated that Players and GM will have to work together to justify the selection of specific skills for the type of performance art being learned. I specifically put this in so that people don't see it as a blank check to pick skills that may have nothing to do with the type of performance they seek. Players can be quite creative when it comes to combining skills in ways one never thought of before... and this gives them the freedom to do so.

I based the skill selection in part off of what was allowed for the Journalism Program... which does allow the selection of Espionage and Rogue skills when selected more than once. How do they learn such skills? Obviously there is a way for them to do so... so how difficult would it be for a performance artist to learn in a similar fashion? If I start limiting what people can and can not select in an area that is very subjective like performance arts... sooner or later there will be a player who has a great idea that can't be done because he isn't allowed to take the skills needed.

I am more about creating as many options as possible... rather than limiting the choices one can make... it is Heroes UNLIMITED after all.
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

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We are just going to disagree Razorwing. The Journalist gets access to the more restrictive skill categories if they take the program a second time, and that is at a lowered skill percentage. If that was the case with your performance program I would be happy.

It would take a great background story for me to have an actor who learned computer hacking as a scholastic skill from being an actor/dancer/singer/musician. Seduction sure, disguise sure, but not tracking, or sniper. Just doesn't work for me.

There is a better chance for me to throw the player a bone on a secondary skill or two that matched the background, but is not on the list.
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

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Actually it is. I specifically mentioned that Espionage skills are at 1/2 their usual bonus (again, did you read the program I wrote?)... just like with the Journalism program.

Perhaps your actor is a method actor and learned how to track by going on a safari in Africa... learning from the tribes there for the actor's first important roll in a major film. Perhaps he trained with an expert gunslinger (and unknown to him, a Weapons Expert hero in the hero's civilian identity) how to more accurately aim a gun (Sniper).

Actors and other Performance Artists sometimes gain access to unusual skills through unusual means... these are just some wild examples of how creative players can be... and how rich and colorful their backgrounds are likely to be.
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

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Actually I missed the penalty in parentheses. My apologies.

If it works for you great. It doesn't work for me. That was my feedback. I don't think availability of espionage and rogue skills are what is needed to fulfill the role of a singer/musician/actor.

Your suggestion of picking up sniper, or tracking on the movie shoot works for a secondary skill, or additional training, but I don't see it as something an actor would get to start with. I might let a player with your back story have those skills, but I wouldn't have sniper and tracking available as part of their base skill package. To me you are talking about learning via experience, or a tutor, after becoming a professional, not from the start.

Would I let a medical doctor who spent time working in Africa pick up tracking, or a foreign language skill? Probably, but it would be as additional skills learned through the time investment before the game started, or in place of secondary skills. I would not let them be part of a medical skill program because a doctor could have possible gone to Africa.

For a performance artist I would expect some combination of dance, sing, play instrument, and writing(everything from screenplays on) before espionage and rogue skills.

That's my opinion. You don't need to use it, but it's my opinion. I tend to be generous when players have an extra skill or two they want during character creation. I also don't let anyone take the Batman approach and say the character was a wealthy orphan, and at 14 starting his college education full time to justify learning 50 skills. That's what the Natural Genius is for:).
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

Unread post by Nightmask »

RockJock wrote:Actually I missed the penalty in parentheses. My apologies.

If it works for you great. It doesn't work for me. That was my feedback. I don't think availability of espionage and rogue skills are what is needed to fulfill the role of a singer/musician/actor.

Your suggestion of picking up sniper, or tracking on the movie shoot works for a secondary skill, or additional training, but I don't see it as something an actor would get to start with. I might let a player with your back story have those skills, but I wouldn't have sniper and tracking available as part of their base skill package. To me you are talking about learning via experience, or a tutor, after becoming a professional, not from the start.

Would I let a medical doctor who spent time working in Africa pick up tracking, or a foreign language skill? Probably, but it would be as additional skills learned through the time investment before the game started, or in place of secondary skills. I would not let them be part of a medical skill program because a doctor could have possible gone to Africa.

For a performance artist I would expect some combination of dance, sing, play instrument, and writing(everything from screenplays on) before espionage and rogue skills.

That's my opinion. You don't need to use it, but it's my opinion. I tend to be generous when players have an extra skill or two they want during character creation. I also don't let anyone take the Batman approach and say the character was a wealthy orphan, and at 14 starting his college education full time to justify learning 50 skills. That's what the Natural Genius is for:).


The problem is how you're looking at it, namely as if they're somehow getting these packages all learned at one time when the character while starting at 1st level has learned those skills over the course of decades. So that second selection to get espionage and rogue skills is what they did AFTER getting the first package, meaning it was learned in addition to the original package. You have people who start acting after some impressive careers after all as well (just look at many of the actors from the 50s and 60s, WWII vets with a range of skills that would fit the Rogue, Espionage and Military skill packages then went into being performers). It's a bit unrealistic to act as if an actor had only acting-focused skills and nothing from categories like Espionage and/or Rogue.
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

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I'm not saying that every Espionage or Rogue skill will work for any given actor... just that the categories do have some skill that do... and others that might. I wanted a very flexible Skill Program that allows players to customize their skill selection to what they need for a given character... rather than try to fit a character concept into a narrow option for skills.

As with all things, it is up to players and GMs to work together to create characters that work for a particular game that a player will enjoy playing for the game's duration. Some character ideas won't work for a given game... that is normal. The beauty of Palladium games is that it can work for almost any kind of game people want to play. It is very flexible... and that is what I wanted this skill program to be... as flexible as the rest of the game system it is part of.
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

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Nightmask also has the right of it.

Skill programs merely show what skills you learned as part of a formal education (intensive training)... not how you got them. In many cases, one does go to a school and learns them in formalized classes... but not always. Is there really a difference between a Computer Programmer who went to college for 4 years to learn from teachers... and the Hacker prodigy who spent the equivalent time learning from other hackers without going to an actual school? Not really... both end up with the Computer Programing skill program... with the equivalent to 4 years in college... they just took different paths to reach that destination.

The same is true for Actors and Journalists... not all of their skills come from a classroom... and I am not talking about secondary skills. Schoolastic skills are merely skills that had some formal level of training... maybe in a classroom... or from an apprenticeship... or just learning from a expert over a few months. How one actually got their skills can be quite varied. Many actors will go to surprising lengths to learn unusual skills for their profession... just look at the odd skills the Mythbusters have picked up in the 14 years that show was on (and they aren't really acting... but definitely performing for the show).
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

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Skimming through this it looks like something that went unmentioned is the Chao Ta Kung Fu Martial Art from Mystic China, it's a Martial Art whose specific nature is to be able to look great as it was developed for the Hong Kong movie scene. It comes not just with experience as an entertainer working in the movie industry but actually has a skill called 'Screen Acting' where you learn how to among other things properly emote, speak scripted dialogue so that it sounds natural and work camera angles well. A character might pick it up rather than one of the standard HtH skills due to their interest in acting/entertaining.
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

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I understand the actor who was with in OSS, or fought in the last war. That is covered by a Military Specialist, or Military educational background using their extra skill program to buy the Performace package.

In your game can a character take espionage/rogue skills as a geologist(science program)/nurse(medical program)/computer programmer(computer program) on the basis of their history? As an example, the science program doesn't give the science nerd access to a couple of rogue/military skills incase he might have picked them up along the way. They need to use secondary skills to pick up Track Animals and WP Rifle from their travels/experience, not Track Humans and Sniper, or go to the military training route, with the science program as their general skill program selection.

The Journalism/Investigative Program doesn't get access to Espionage/Rogue skills until taken the second time. If that was the case with your program it would have a better chance of use in my game. That being said, if I would use it or not doesn't matter in your game. If it works for you use it.

As an aside, I've had games where characters were built with a set number of skills, regardless of skill program, as long as it made sense. It is a good way to make the players build a character background, but doesn't work if players want to power game, or max/min.
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

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Scientists don't need espionage/rogue skills to be scientists. Nurses and doctors don't need them to be health care professionals. Computer Programmers don't need them to be programmers. That is why those skill programs don't offer them.

Exactly what skills do you think a Performance Actor needs... because from my point of view, creating an all encompassing skill program that would allow for any and every type of performance... well... it would look more like an O.C.C. than a skill program. The reason why this program has the ability to select from these categories is because there are skills in them that are appropriate. It is up to the player to select the skills that make sense. Just as with the Science Program... you select the specific skills that makes you the type of scientist you want to be (one doesn't select Marine Biology if one doesn't want to be a Marine Biologist). Not every Performance Artist will need the Disguise or Escape Artist skills from Espionage or the Cardsharp or Seduction skills from Rogue... but there are those who might... and there are other skills in both categories that could be useful (especially for creative characters) for a specific type of Performance Artist.

The problem is that the skills that can be selected as Secondary Skills are VERY limited... and are generally seen as inferior to Scholastic Skills even when it is the same skill. Secondary Skills are also skills are usually interests a person has that are outside their professional skill sets... hobbies that a character chose not to pursue professionally... so why should Performance Actors select skills vital to their profession at a lesser level of expertise than you would expect for a Professional? Do you expect an Electrical Engineer to take Basic Electronics as a Secondary Skill rather than Electrical Engineering as a Scholastic? Do you expect a Journalist to have Scholastic level writing and research skills... or should they merely select them as a talented amateur with Secondary skills?

Getting the skills that many Performance Artists might need or want for their profession (especially skills like Disguise and such) are very difficult with the current Education levels and Skill Programs. To get ANY Espionage skills (like Disguise), one must have either Trade School or Military Specialist education levels, which severely limits what other skill programs one can get (which may force the player to select important skills like Performance and such as an inferior Secondary Skill). Rogue skills are a little easier to come by... and some of them CAN be taken as Secondary Skills... but still... do you really expect a Professional Escape Artist performer to be picking the locks as a mere amateur with Pick Locks as a Secondary Skill (a hobby he picked up)... or as a Scholastic skill he mastered while under apprenticeship with a Master Escape Artist (like David Copperfield or Chris Angel)?

It is the level of expertise that differentiates Performance Artist skills from mere hobbies... Scholastic/Professional training vs. Secondary/Hobbies. Not all Secondary skills can be taken twice for professional level quality (as written, only Domestic Skills can be). So this leaves us with few options for creating such a character... at least with the current Education levels and Skill Programs.

For example, the character I had in mind when I started this thread was going to be a musician/actor in the same way as Hilary Duff and Miley Cyrus were at one point. Now, if I want this character to have any Espionage Skills that might be useful in her career... I would need to take them as Scholastic Skills as Espionage skills aren't available as Secondary (except Wilderness Survival... which doesn't really fit with her concept). So... now my choices are rather limited if I want to get the most out of her skill selection. Since I want her to be fairly young (late teens), the most likely option would be Trade School Education (fits with how many teen pop-stars tend to have schooling while also working on their careers). Sadly, this education level doesn't leave me with many skill options (2 programs and 8 secondary skills).

Now... I have some options for getting Espionage skills that could prove useful... Disguise (for make-up artistry), Forgery (for making convincing props) and Impersonation (for help with taking on specific rolls... like historical figures)... even Escape Artist and Pick Locks could be useful... but not quite in character for this character. I could go with the Espionage Program... but it gives me skills that don't really make sense for this character (HtH Martial Arts, Detect Ambush, Intelligence and Wilderness survival). Yes, these skills would be useful to her as a Hero... but she isn't learning skills to be a hero. She is learning to be a Musician/Actress. Additionally, she can only select 2 of the skills that would be useful to her through this method. She could take another Espionage Program to get more skills... but that would use up all her Skill Programs and not give her other vital skills for her career (such as singing, dancing or playing a musical instrument... kind of important to be a pop-star these days). Of course this glosses over possible Rogue skills that might also be useful, like Seduction or even Ventriloquism (the later may not be apparently useful for a pop-star until one realizes that it is about making one's voice come from someplace it isn't... and could help with lip-syncing performances if needed).

Okay... so if the Espionage Program isn't viable for this character... how to get skills like Disguise. The only other available option is through Journalism... and even then it requires 2 selections of the Program... all her Professional level skills... used to get a few that could help as an actress... and leaves the only way to get her professional quality skills for music though doubling up with secondary skills. Again, going this route gives her skills that aren't related to what she wants to be... how many Singers/Actors took journalism to learn their trade skills?

So... with just two skill programs, the Trade School education level isn't looking as good for this character as originally thought. So, why not go with a higher education level for more programs. Well, there are Bachelors of Arts, so it is conceivable that she could have gone such a route... giving her 4 Skill Programs with which to choose her skills with. This would allow her to take Journalism twice to get the Espionage and Rogue Skills that could help with her acting... and still allow her to take a Professional quality Domestic Program (for Singing, Dancing and Musical Instruments) or two for her pop-star singing/music requirements. Of course, this level of schooling would mean she would have to be a little older than many pop-stars of our times... more like classic music stars who where in their mid to late 20s or early 30s before they hit it big... but even here we could make exceptions. We could even scale back to 3 or 4 years of College education levels at the cost of a skill program to make her being younger a bit more plausible without sacrificing too much in the way of skills... but still it means that she is learning professional level skills that aren't exactly related to what she is going to be (the initial Journalism program).

As you can see... the ways to get such skills are very limited... in a game that should allow for unlimited possibilities.

If you have a better solution... feel free to share it with us.
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

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Of course I could just narrow this character's focus on just being a pop-star... singing, dancing and music... and while many in the industry do make it with just such a focus... more and more are diversifying their performances. Singers are becoming actors and actors are becoming singers (the drama classes I took back in high school taught both acting and singing... many school productions were musicals so you had to be able to do both if you wanted a part).

If the mega-stars of today can act and sing... and I want this character to be like them... then she will need the skills to do so... which, as I showed above, is very difficult to get appropriate skills without cluttering them with skills that are irrelevant to her career choice (a civilian scientist isn't likely to take a military skill program as it has little to do with the profession he intends to have... so why should an actor need to take journalism to gain access to espionage/rogue skills that could be useful?). As written, one can't learn Disguise as a Secondary skill selection, which means that they need access to Espionage skills as part of a Scholastic program (even an apprenticeship or mentorship rather than formal schooling meets this requirement). Since only a few Education levels allow one to select the Espionage Program, and only one other Program allows one to select these skills if taken twice... another option was needed... especially if you want to make an actor/performer who wants to focus only on their acting/performances (and not be a former spy, criminal, journalist or ex-hero).
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

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If it works for your character and your game use it. I just don't see access to all Rogue/Espionage skills being needed to do the job of an actor/musician. If it was training for a role that grants the skills it should be a secondary skill in my opinion, especially when there is a similar skill available as a secondary like the Rifle and Track: Animal examples.

In my games I would be much more likely to give an engineer/doctor/geologist/actor/etc a skill or two out of the restricted categories to explain their background then to build programs that had the skills built in as available. In the alternative, I would go the route of letting the player have access to any skill as they build their character as long as it the number of skills is inline with what the normal educational backgrounds give, and the individual skill picks make logical sense to the GM.

I can come up with a reason for a ME or EE who worked as a civilian contractor in Iraq/Afghanistan to have all sorts of restricted skills (Detect Ambush, Military Etiquette, Find Contraband/Illegal Weapons as examples). I can come up with similar for a MD who works with a Doctor's Without Borders type group, or a geologist/archeologist/anthropologist/scientist who works in dangerous locations. These skills can be explained via background, but access to them is not part of their normal professional skill programs. Maybe it would make more sense for any character who takes a duplicate program selection to gain access to the skills outside the norm, if they can be explained? Heck, if I was making myself into a HU character I have half a dozen skills from restricted categories that HU says I should not be able to take due to my educational background.

Here are skills from the basic main book list that I could see the performer having access to as part of a skill program. Take say any 4-5 of these skills for a program.
Dance
Play Musical Instrument
Sing
TV & Video
Disguise
Impersonation
Gymnastics
Body Building
Photography
Writing
Seduction
Ventriloquism
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

Unread post by Nightmask »

RockJock wrote:If it works for your character and your game use it. I just don't see access to all Rogue/Espionage skills being needed to do the job of an actor/musician. If it was training for a role that grants the skills it should be a secondary skill in my opinion, especially when there is a similar skill available as a secondary like the Rifle and Track: Animal examples.


Okay, just why exactly are you downgrading their training to secondary skill status even though you admit that they're undergoing training for it which would put it in the scholastic/professional category and not secondary? You admit the skill is clearly being learned in order to properly perform a particular role so is clearly a superior level of education on the subject rather than the level implied by secondary.
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

Unread post by RockJock »

Did the on the job/set training involve 10-16 hours a week of work on the skill for a year on the short side(3 semesters)? Let's say you can condense the timeline and spend 30-48 hours a week for 4 months. At this point you aren't shooting a moving on location, you are learning to track full time for 4 months. If the character goes and lives with the Maasai(or whatever group is teaching the training) for 4-12 months as learning Tracking Human, or Tracking Animal at a scholastic level I would probably allow it as a skill explained as part of the backstory. I would do the same for a character who was a engineer and spent time in Alaska with his grandfather the trapper, or the translator who grew up hunting on the reservation in Arizona, or MD who grew up on the Maasai lands.

If the skill is part of their skill program, it should be available as part of a huge number of skill programs. If you make the Espionage/Rogue skills available only if the program is taken a second time I could probably work with that. I would make it available for a large number of programs, only if the program is taken a second time. This would represent the engineer/MD/scientist/actor/truck driver or whatever who finds themselves working in a less than normal place/situation and can reasonably explain the skill availability. I would probably expand to even more skill categories as available if a base program is taken twice.

As the program sits now the justification is an actor is has the ability to learn Espionage/Rogue skills, but can't learn to say drive a race car, first aid, or how to use a pistol as part of their professional training? What about singers/musician learning sniper, or interrogation as part of their profession?

I brought up Secondary skills because of the examples of Sniper and Tracking we were talking about. Neither are available as secondary skills, but WP: Rifle, and Tracking: Animals are available, and are good substitutes for the Espionage skills. If you want an actor who learned to use a weapon or track as part of a movie the secondary skill substitutes are available. He would have needed to learn WP: Rifle as a secondary skill anyway, unless you have also allowed him to take the WP as part of his acting training.

The HU skill system as it sits has lots of holes. You can't start with Demolition, Parachuting, or NBC as examples without taking a military program. The only way to get them is the back to school option, in game, or as part of a backstory. Another example is you can't be a cop with a college degree as a starting character without using the back to school option.
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Razorwing
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

Unread post by Razorwing »

RockJock wrote:If it works for your character and your game use it. I just don't see access to all Rogue/Espionage skills being needed to do the job of an actor/musician. If it was training for a role that grants the skills it should be a secondary skill in my opinion, especially when there is a similar skill available as a secondary like the Rifle and Track: Animal examples.

In my games I would be much more likely to give an engineer/doctor/geologist/actor/etc a skill or two out of the restricted categories to explain their background then to build programs that had the skills built in as available. In the alternative, I would go the route of letting the player have access to any skill as they build their character as long as it the number of skills is inline with what the normal educational backgrounds give, and the individual skill picks make logical sense to the GM.

I can come up with a reason for a ME or EE who worked as a civilian contractor in Iraq/Afghanistan to have all sorts of restricted skills (Detect Ambush, Military Etiquette, Find Contraband/Illegal Weapons as examples). I can come up with similar for a MD who works with a Doctor's Without Borders type group, or a geologist/archeologist/anthropologist/scientist who works in dangerous locations. These skills can be explained via background, but access to them is not part of their normal professional skill programs. Maybe it would make more sense for any character who takes a duplicate program selection to gain access to the skills outside the norm, if they can be explained? Heck, if I was making myself into a HU character I have half a dozen skills from restricted categories that HU says I should not be able to take due to my educational background.

Here are skills from the basic main book list that I could see the performer having access to as part of a skill program. Take say any 4-5 of these skills for a program.
Dance
Play Musical Instrument
Sing
TV & Video
Disguise
Impersonation
Gymnastics
Body Building
Photography
Writing
Seduction
Ventriloquism


And you just hit the nail on the head as to why the Performing Arts Program needs more flexibility... you've identified 12 skills alone that would be useful to anyone in the Performing Arts... 2 or 3 times the amount provided by most Skill Programs. That means that no matter which skills make the cut for the program, there will be some kinds of Performance Art that can't be done. I noticed that you didn't include Escape Artist or Pick Locks... so I am guessing you don't consider an escape artist to be worthy as a Performance Art (Houdini would be crushed).

There may never be a perfect solution that will work for everyone... and players can be surprisingly creative when it comes to combining skills in ways that many GMs fail to see... especially when it comes to how they view their character's profession.

As for me... the list of skills that I could see being used by ANY professional Performance Artist (with all the types of performances out there) is a little more... robust (and yes, I am using a more extensive list of skills than what is found in HU, with a larger list of what skills go in which categories).

Creative Writing (useful for writing song lyrics and Play/Movie/TV scripts)
Language (Other; not everyone speaks or understands English)
Performance (kind of goes without saying)
Public Speaking (useful in public performances)
Radio and TV/Video (to know how to use such equipment to broadcast performances)
Sing, Dance and Play Musical Instrument (some of the most common performances around)
Wardrobe & Grooming (for looking one's best while performing)
Sewing (for making the outfits/costumes one wears while performing)
Disguise (for make up and prosthetics)
Escape Artist and Pick Locks (for escape artist type performances)
Forgery (to help with creating realistic props)
Impersonation (for doing... well... impersonations)
Sniper (for helping with some trick shots... especially those that require precise aim... like shooting small objects off of an assistant's head)
Horsemanship (for trick riding performances)
Basic Electronics/Mechanics (to help build many of the devices that are used in some performances... though the Engineering equivalents would also be useful)
Locksmith (also useful for escape artists)
Hand to Hand Combat skills (for knowing how to make fights realistic)
Physical Skills (these can be surprisingly useful for the more physical aspects of performances)
Pilot Skills (useful for stunt driving and similar performances)
Cardsharp, Gambling and Gambling: Dirty Tricks (for any number of card-based performances/tricks and cons)
Concealment and Palming (for slight of hand style tricks)
Imitate Voices/Sounds (any number of performances could use this... especially impersonators)
Safe-Cracking (also useful for escape artists... especially those that are escaping from safes/vaults)
Seduction (for more... sensual and one on one performances)
Art (for creating backdrops and other props for performances)
Calligraphy (never underestimate the power of good and fancy signage)
Computer Operation and Programing (almost mandatory to know how to use a computer in a modern setting... and useful in Computer Animation for TV/Movies)
General Repair/Maintenance and Jury-Rig (not every will know how to build from scratch, but many can maintain or improvise something on the fly)
Photography (for capturing the moment of a Performance)
Rope Works (for all sorts of performances involving rope... including escape artistry)
Ventriloquism (another surprisingly common performance art)
Weapon Proficiencies (again, for realistic fighting with such weapons)

This is about 40+ skills that would be found throughout any number of Performance Artists one is likely to encounter. Not all of them will have all or even most of these skills (most will have maybe 5 to 15 of them with those in groups more likely to have fewer as there will be others to cover those areas not taken). Many of these skills can be obtained through existing skill programs... and some can be taken at the Secondary level (though most performance artists will tend to have their more useful skills as Scholastic). And this doesn't take into account the combinations that clever players might come up with.

It is the less common skills... the ones that generally belong to Espionage and Rogue categories that are often the hardest to get through existing skill programs as they are usually limited to specific education levels, than warranted a skill program that made them at least a little accessible. Not every Performance Artist will have these rarer skills... many in fact won't... but making the Player who wants to have been trained as an escape artist train as something else before being allowed to take skills for his specialized version of the skill program (by making him take it at least twice before he can select skills like Escape Artist, Pick Locks and Safe-Cracking) seems a little overly harsh... especially if he was an assistant to an established Escape Artist (possibly even a Stage Magician category hero). Why should he have to learn 2 or 3 skills that have little to nothing to do with the Performance he wants to do... just to make it harder to get the skills he needs (and that is what you are doing... making needed skills for a character concept harder for a player to get).

You are basically seeing the potential for player abuse in getting skills that have nothing to do with performances and thus want to make it harder to get such skills to prevent it. That thinking makes it harder for players who aren't intending to abuse the system for their advantage... and won't stop the players who do intend to abuse it from doing so. All it does is deter players from creating the characters they want because it is too hard for them to get the skills they want/need for their concept to work... especially if they have to sacrifice another needed program that they wanted (such as a Physical Program for some of the acrobatic skills they may need).

In the end, the Performance Arts Program should allow Players to create any kind of Performance Artist with a minimal need to take the Program. A Journalist only needs to take their program once to be a capable reporter... taking it more often means that they can do more, but it isn't needed. A scientist only needs to take the Science Program once to be a viable scientist in their given field. With one selection of the Performance Arts Program, a player should be able to create a viable performer of any kind... from a singer to an actor and anything in between without the need to take the program a second time... but the program should also have an incentive to take it more than once to make one a better performer... or to expand the kind of performances one can do. This is where you get your Singer/Actor combos... and your world class Escape Artists (who can escape from any kind of confinement or bond).

One shouldn't have to take a Program twice just to be what they want to be... which is why I created the Program the way it is... allowing a Player who wants to have been an escape artist before being exposed to toxic waste and gaining his mutant powers (possibly because he failed to escape in time... or just before he was exposed to lethal levels of the waste) can be such without having to use up all or most of his Skill Programs to do so.
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Hell knight
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

Unread post by Hell knight »

A lii late to this chat but in mystic china there is a screen acting skill .
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Re: Skills for a Actor/Musician

Unread post by 13eowulf »

To my knowledge there are several Rifters with skills that would help a potential media celebrity:

The Rifter #24 has a section on Entertainment skills (it is part of an article about the Media of Rifts Earth, but I think it applicable).

The Rifter #28 has an article about politics in HU2, which is very applicable, including skill packages for Public Relations as well as Image Consulting, both of which would be applicable to a celebrity as well as politicians, including skills such as "Muck Slinging" (though I think the kids are calling it "throwing shade" these days), and Image Consultation.

And then of course there are the Mental skills in The Rifter #19, which include such skills as Beautification, Cosmetology, Etiquette, Fashion, Image Enhancement, and Socialization.
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