Cell Phones

[RockJock]

Just seeing if cell phones pop up in your games, and how. How are they used past the basic phone/smartphone?

On the tables I play on many good/bad guys use some version of a souped up cellphone. The general rule is if you can do it in real life with a handheld device the souped up smartphone can do it.

All the standard smartphone abilities plus the below:
Sat Phone
CB Bands/scanner
Police Bands/scanner
HIgh Speed Wireless Net
Encrypt/Decrypt abilities
Computer Hacking
Basic sensors: Thermometer/Altimeter/Barometer
Translation
all connected to a wrist watch/earbud/whisper mike in most game settings.

Some things like maps, and translation routines need to either be preloaded, or require an outside internet connection.



We also have some "alien", E-Genius, and A-Genius types with phones with significantly greater built in abilities, along the lines of the hand held sensors/scanners in the Phase World setting.

[Glistam]

From a superhero/near future tech standpoint, it seems like smartphones would be almost on par with the wireless personal devices available to Shadowrunners in the 5th Ed of Shadowrun. That seems reasonable to me.

[drewkitty ~..~]

From a current char..

radar detector
sound filtration (with blue toothed earplug/buds)
translator
bug detector

[Reagren Wright]

In one of my favorite adventures I run at conventions, I have a group of teenage
heroes, and each year I always update their cell phones. These phones have been \
very key to the players' victory. I would have to agree today's smartphone is inching
so close to the concepts of phone used in Shadowrun since 1st edition (when they
where called decks in the 1980s).

[RockJock]

Thanks for the Shadowrun idea. I never thought of that game, but it's a good idea.

[Pepsi Jedi]

From a superhero/near future tech standpoint, it seems like smartphones would be almost on par with the wireless personal devices available to Shadowrunners in the 5th Ed of Shadowrun. That seems reasonable to me.

I don't think cell phones are remotely akin to SR Cyberdecks.

[Pepsi Jedi]

While modern smart phones can often do about what a laptop can they have limitations. Even fast ones (I have a current gen top of the line Iphone +) are slower than a dedicated computer for most things. If they don't have a singal they become less useful.

They're not close to Cyberdecks.

Sounds like someone saw commercials for that new video game that lets you 'hack the world' with the character's cell phone and went 'Whoa. RP IDEA!"

Which in a 'futuristic" game if you want to go that way that's cool, but one for current time lines, not so much.

[Glistam]

From a superhero/near future tech standpoint, it seems like smartphones would be almost on par with the wireless personal devices available to Shadowrunners in the 5th Ed of Shadowrun. That seems reasonable to me.

I don't think cell phones are remotely akin to SR Cyberdecks.

No, modern day commercial cell phones are not. But put one in the hands of an Electrical Hardware character and I believe the end result, while still not equal to, would be significantly closer.

[Pepsi Jedi]

well that's going to be weird.

The Hardware cagories were written in the late 70s/early 80s. Back when skills like hotwiring a car! Seemed amazing and exotic.
I mean if you crack open the book. WHOA. 35 years of progress has gone by with no update or revision. There's a sentence for a "hacker" "Surf the Internet OR World Wide Web for free" and a penalty.

Internet or world wide web? "or"?

Breaking a simple security program in 2D4 minutes? There's commercial grade incryption that would take months to break. You can find even more advanced stuff online these days for free if you know where to look.

The "hacking" dreamed of in 1984 when HU was first put out is nothing remotely like what's actually possible today. Much less able to be done with the ease and time that's alotted. But when you look at the things around it you get filled in on that. The electronics sconstruction references building calculators and toasters.

Look at the write up for building a laptop.

"Computer construction -5%
requiring miniturization -15%
minor hardware enhancements -10%
complex programming -15%

For a total of -45% penalty, on the classes SUPERABILITY (Which cuts the ability in half just to put together a laptop)

But..... we all know this can be done, by someone with zero education in computer construction, programming etc, by simply watching a few youtube videos and buying the parts off Newegg.

looking further, they mention motion sensors. Cost to buy $65,000. A night vision camera $4,500 Micro listening device $200

Two years ago I bought a baby monitor when we had our daughter that had a motion sensor on it. Night vision, audio (Two way), and wireless capability for $250.

The baby monitor I had in my daughter's room, by the hardware write up would have cost roughly $70,000 by the HU writeup. (and that didn't include the speaker, and that it'd play music if i told it to. ))

It is partially that.... the source material was written in the early 80s and computers/electronics have advanced so much over the past 3 decades and partially because Kevin has netoriously bad understanding of how technology actually works.

But even if we only go with the tech advances, further on the same page.

"Hand held voice activated mini computer" Described as the size of a paperback book with a 4 by 5 inch screen. No keyboard though. (Though they do say it's got a CD ram though how I'm not sure as the CD wouldn't fit in it. lol) Still.... equivalent of a high end but not top of the line laptop.

So..... an Iphone, but not as good as an iphone as you can type on an Iphone but still. Voice activated. Just like Siri on the iphone. Mine is a nice one so, lets say $700. Now note.. this isn't including the camera and phone, which by palladium rules would add goddess knows how much more to the cost, but just for the Iphone which is much thinner than a paperback book and has more functions than the one in the HU book. Cost: "Not available on the open market but if it were $30,000+

Now my Iphone is great. It's alot better than the item described in the HU book. But.... I'm not going to take out a long term loan to pay for it. (much less upgrade a $30,000 item every year or two.).

Which is alot of words to come back around to make a point.... That.. the Hardware categories written in the early 80s cannot, with out utter and total re-write, actually be applied to modern day technology.

As written it just doesn't work. As written the Iphone on my desk would cost $40,000-$60,000 if not more.

So... using the rules written in 1984, to 'hack' a computer or enhance an 'electrical device' wouldn't work the same way. They're talking about taking apart a toaster. Not making an Iphone hack a city wide subay system and reroute or take over trains. The rules mean to put a high end computer (In this case what, an Apple IIe? or maybe one with a *Gasp* CD ROM!!) in a car! isn't going to be the same for creating a 'next gen' smart phone from scratch. I mean can you imagine building the componits for a smart phone in your basement? lol Sure if you knew how to put one together you could put one together, but how on earth could you possibly make the motherboard and chips and components in your own basment. Much less using rules for hot wiring a toaster?

[Glistam]

Yes, Heroes Unlimited could really use the Hardware Unlimited supplement sooner rather than later. Palladium games in general could use an equipment list update.

However, this is a fantastic game about people who can fly, lift cars, run at supersonic speed and shoot lasers from their eyes. I'm not going to get too hung up on it. Roll a skill percentage and somehow upgrade your device to be amazing. I don't know how it's done - I don't care. The skills represent that the character knows how to do it and that's fine with me.

[eliakon]

And to be honest...
...I am fine with using the numbers to allow a hardware character to do stuff McGuyver or Professor style...
...so sure you have a -45 to build that laptop. But you don't have to worry about trivial boring stuff like tracking down parts, or having to have a static free work shop, or needing tools or any of that. Because your just that good. It might be built in the shell of a coconut with parts you salvaged from a 1963 buick, a couple of clock radios and an iPhone 3... but it works just fine because your a Hardware character.
Reality isn't a huge issue.

And then of course we could look at the more recent books that are pretty good at having better prices for things (look at the prices in Century Station for example...)

Or then again I also like running games IN the 1980s

[Pepsi Jedi]

Yes, Heroes Unlimited could really use the Hardware Unlimited supplement sooner rather than later. Palladium games in general could use an equipment list update.

However, this is a fantastic game about people who can fly, lift cars, run at supersonic speed and shoot lasers from their eyes. I'm not going to get too hung up on it. Roll a skill percentage and somehow upgrade your device to be amazing. I don't know how it's done - I don't care. The skills represent that the character knows how to do it and that's fine with me.

Well if we're not carying about such things, then there's no real need to roll. Just wave your character sheet and describe what ever you want done.

The HU universe isn't one set in the far future. It seems a bit past what we have now, due to 'superinventions' and what have you but, your average person is living in 2016 (or the 1980s depending on your setting)

[Pepsi Jedi]

And to be honest...
...I am fine with using the numbers to allow a hardware character to do stuff McGuyver or Professor style...
...so sure you have a -45 to build that laptop. But you don't have to worry about trivial boring stuff like tracking down parts, or having to have a static free work shop, or needing tools or any of that.

What gave you that idea? There's nothing in the write up about things just appearing due to your imagination. You DO have to track down parts and all the rest.

Because your just that good. It might be built in the shell of a coconut with parts you salvaged from a 1963 buick, a couple of clock radios and an iPhone 3... but it works just fine because your a Hardware character.
Reality isn't a huge issue.

Clearly, because you're just making stuff up. Nothing in the write ups indicate you can just chew some gum, take apart a pen add a watch battery and have a laser blaster. That's NOT what the Hardware category does.

And then of course we could look at the more recent books that are pretty good at having better prices for things (look at the prices in Century Station for example...)

If memory serves the most 'recent' technology we have mentioned in HU is from PU2.. where it talks about the Genius using a ....... Ngage as super intelligent high end tech.... So.... take that as you will. Doesn't seem all that smart to me.

Or then again I also like running games IN the 1980s

And that's perfectly fine and acceptable. I'd love a game set there. But you wouldn't be running around with a Shadowrun cyberdeck in a Iphone then either.

[eliakon]

And to be honest...
...I am fine with using the numbers to allow a hardware character to do stuff McGuyver or Professor style...
...so sure you have a -45 to build that laptop. But you don't have to worry about trivial boring stuff like tracking down parts, or having to have a static free work shop, or needing tools or any of that.

What gave you that idea? There's nothing in the write up about things just appearing due to your imagination. You DO have to track down parts and all the rest.

That is your opinion yes.
I obviously have a different view of course.
And no I never said anything about "things just appearing due to your imagination" I said doing things like McGuyver of The Professor. You do understand the difference yes?

People who are not Hardware characters are restricted to having to do things the hard way. If you are building the computer in the real world you have to find a circuit board that is laid out just the way you need it, with just the right microchips. If you want to build a robot you need to have all the special sensors, and servos and what not...
But in the wonderful cinematic world of Comic Books and TV that isn't as important. In the Comic books you can invent that new element you need overnight in your Penthouse or build a Power Armor out of salvaged missiles in a cave in Afghanistan. In that world the story is the thing and if you have the skills, and if it is cool then it has a chance to work.

Because your just that good. It might be built in the shell of a coconut with parts you salvaged from a 1963 buick, a couple of clock radios and an iPhone 3... but it works just fine because your a Hardware character.
Reality isn't a huge issue.

Clearly, because you're just making stuff up. Nothing in the write ups indicate you can just chew some gum, take apart a pen add a watch battery and have a laser blaster. That's NOT what the Hardware category does.

Cool page and paragraph?
No seriously?
Because when I say that I view the Hardware as being McGuyver or Tony Stark or The Professor (from Gilligan's Island) or you know... virtually every other gadget/super inventor from comic books/television/and movies I think that it is not unreasonable to say that those are valid character types to use as the desired role...
And to be fair I wouldn't allow some gun, a pen, and a watch battery to make a laser.
I might let them rummage through the goodwill and grab a dozen old DVD players, a car battery instant jump box and a telescope pen and jury rig up a laser pistol though.

And then of course we could look at the more recent books that are pretty good at having better prices for things (look at the prices in Century Station for example...)

If memory serves the most 'recent' technology we have mentioned in HU is from PU2.. where it talks about the Genius using a ....... Ngage as super intelligent high end tech.... So.... take that as you will. Doesn't seem all that smart to me.

Um did you do what I suggested?
Like look in Century Station?
Which has laptop supercomputers for sale?
Which has over the counter lasers, and hover vehicles, and e-clips?

Or then again I also like running games IN the 1980s

And that's perfectly fine and acceptable. I'd love a game set there. But you wouldn't be running around with a Shadowrun cyberdeck in a Iphone then either.

[/quote]
The Hardware guys usually end up doing so

[RockJock]

I didn't expect to open such a can of worms. The question that comes to mind now is how do you play genius characters in the "modern" age?

[Glistam]

I didn't expect to open such a can of worms. The question that comes to mind now is how do you play genius characters in the "modern" age?

I play them the same way I would have played them in the 80's. I look to near-future sci-fi for inspiration and base what I have the character do off of that. The difference is that there are things which were firmly "sci-fi" back in the 80's that are common now. But that's okay, because there's still cool stuff to mine from near-future stories. eliakon remarked on a few fictional characters who I would agree provide good inspiration for how a Hardware Category character can work.

[Pepsi Jedi]

I didn't expect to open such a can of worms. The question that comes to mind now is how do you play genius characters in the "modern" age?

Well the (Natural) Genius is a different power category in HU. *Grins*

That said we still allow hardware characters in our games, but it takes some revision to the class. You have to update it from 35 years ago. As Glistam said you bump them up to cutting edge tech of today. You update their powers and stuff to about the same. "Spy cars" From 007 in 1979 were cool... in 1979... but you update them to the sorts of things you see them doing in 2016 instead. Same across the board. It takes some work updating the class, but it's not as deep as you'd think. You just update the base percentages, and then the modifiers, penalties and such. Along with the costs. They don't have to be spot on. You don't have to do 15 hours of research. We have phones. They have google. lol But it'll keep something like... a baby monitor that you can pick up at Target for $250... from costing the $70,000 that the HU book would put it at.

HU isn't a bad game. Hardware isn't a bad category (There are a few of those. I'm looking at you Hunter/vigilante). It just suffers from the "One and done, three DECADES ago writing.

I would LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE an entire system wide revamp to 2020 standards (Lets be honest that'd be as soon as we could see a HU3 book come out) But sadly I don't expect it to happen. ALL the classes could use a update. There's been ALOT of advances in three DECADES that the books could benifit from.

the tech classes just SEE it alot more. A mutant in 1980 and a mutant in 2020 are still mutants. Sure their education and stuff will be different but they're still mutants.

A tech character though.... HU was written just after catalytic converters became mainstream/manditory.... it's 2016... you really FEEL the three decades in them.

[Daniel Stoker]

I admit when I look at the Hardware class and the general computer skills in Heroes Unlimited I get a feeling like I'm reading someone who just watched an episode of The Rockford Files and how they treated technology and computers.


Daniel Stoker

[Nightmask]

I admit when I look at the Hardware class and the general computer skills in Heroes Unlimited I get a feeling like I'm reading someone who just watched an episode of The Rockford Files and how they treated technology and computers.


Daniel Stoker

They didn't watch the Six Million Dollar Man that's for sure, they could run anything through the magical government computers to get a useful answer. It's amazing how often Steve would go 'Hey Oscar run this through the Computer and see what it comes up with.'

[Saitou Hajime]

I generally have the Internet to fix prices, I have change education costs and other adjustiments, you want real odd skills look at some of the skills in Ninjas and Superspies.

[Vincent Takeda]

Might not be a bad thinbook/sourcebook if the publisher were interested... 2016 palladium technology guide to contemporary weapons and electronic hardware/spyware... a snapshot in time. Kinda like the cyberpunk chromebooks... A 'style guide' for 2016. I'd buy that book.

[Reagren Wright]

A lot of this tech problem would be solved if Greg Diaczyk's Hardware Unlimited book saw
print. It takes an engineer to fix the tech issues HU faces, and I assure you Greg has done
that. Ten years from now, his Hardware Book would still be relevant regardless what new type
of cell phone, lap tops, or whatever new computer/electronic tech we have.

Unfortunately we don't have his book so we are stuck with our current tech problem. So how
do we solve this problem. Well its quite simple. Same method I use in my campaigns and in
my own writings for HU. Just make something up! Use the current rules and modify them to
suit your need. We are playing a superhero game, so you can use comic book logic to imagine
there is an computer program or a special app your character downloaded on his
phone that help him to use his phone to hack things like you see in movies, comics,
etc all the time. Hey in Westworld on HBO they got high tech looking IPADs that can be used to
change the programing of the Host (androids). So yes the book has advance 1980s and early
1990s tech. Nightbane is just as bad off and Ninja and Superspies is really bad. So just modify
the penalties and rules to suit your needs or the scenario. Unlike Shadowrun and D&D
Palladium is not going to update itself every 3-5 years.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Well not putting too fine points on it, but yes
1) Just make crap up, is pretty much what anyone has to do, as the rules are literaly three DECADES behind. And those were three pretty big decades in technological advance.

2) Mentioning west world and their pads is a bit.. ehh.. Sure it's not a super hero movie but in Westworld, they've advanced robotics past mere robotics and all the way up to full synthetic human of flesh and blood that can be sculpted, created, and then brought to life with programming. The implication is they've leanred how to program wetware. I.E. an actual 'brain' not a 'computer chip' inside. You see this sort of implied when they try and use a host to take out like 30 years of tech advance.
In addition to that level of technology, their hosts are effectivly immortal. Deloris is like 30+ years old and hasn't aged.

Now, that's all well and good, but the point is, that Westworld isn't set in a mere 'tomorrow' of today setting. You're looking at huge huge HUGE HUUUUGE Advances in tech to pull that off. Not 2017 or even 2030, or even 2050. You're taling 2416 or something. The tech level is beyond 'Lets build a James Bond Spy car" type thing. Or even a 'laser rifle'. The technology displayed and hinted at in West world is 'past' what you see in Star Trek the Next Generation. The Hosts, put Data from TNG to shame.

[Shorty Lickens]

My characters never use consumer cell phones. Its always secured comms thru some fantasy system, normally their own secret satellite communication setup.
Had a pair of psychic characters once, but they didnt get along, so that wasnt reliable.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Not every character can afford his or her own satellites.

[RockJock]

Now I could see a hardware character building drone, or balloon based secured wifi, or even a network pulling power from say light poles, or traffic lights in his home city, or neighborhood to simulate a private sat network on a smaller scale.