Stretch Time question

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Regularguy
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Stretch Time question

Unread post by Regularguy »

Using the Warning Glimpse About The Future aspect of Stretch Time lets you see what will happen if you take a particular action -- be it walking through a door that might have an alarm, or saying something specific to somebody, or flat-out attacking someone, or whatever.

There must be hundreds of possibilities: see which cards are next in the deck -- and then snap back to the present, so nobody else remembers (a) you taking a look, or (b) what the cards are. Or empty your gun into the guy you suspect is invulnerable -- and then snap back to the present, so nobody else learns (a) what you learned, or (b) that you learned it. Or cut the bomb's red wire -- and then snap back to cut the blue wire instead, with nobody else knowing (a) that you got it wrong the first time, or (b) what happens if the red wire gets cut.

So what happens if you Mind Bond with someone? First you and the other guy learn everything about one another, and then -- you snap back with all of his memories and skills, and it's as if he never actually got any of yours? (Also, are you even out the 10 ISP?)
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drewkitty ~..~
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Re: Stretch Time question

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Even if the mutant was also also a psion, thinking about mind boning with someone in the future I would rule that they would only get a good or bad feeling about the outcome of the mind bond. And the mutant would actually have to go through with it to gain any knowledge from the other person.

example: there is a group of guards and one of them knows the pass code to open a door the mutant needs to go through. He could use the super power to determine which guard had the pass code if thinking about if he would find it or not if he mind bonded with the guard. But would have to actually mind bond with the guard that had the pass code to get the pass code.
That is the limits of the power as I read it.
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Regularguy
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Re: Stretch Time question

Unread post by Regularguy »

I'm not sure I follow you; what do you figure is supposed to happen with other psi powers? Or without psi powers?

Say you're a stage magician: you have me pick a card, and show it to the audience, and place it back in the deck; and then you place the deck on the table; and then, using Stretch Time, you ask me what my card was. "The six of diamonds," I say -- because this is apparently one of those tricks where you now invite me to flip over the top card and reveal it's the six of diamonds, or where you have me reach into my pocket and produce the six of diamonds, or something.

Only you don't; you snap back to the present, and you don't ask me which card I picked. But you remember me saying "six of diamonds" -- and I don't remember (a) saying that, or (b) getting asked, right? So you then work a card trick built around somehow knowing it was the six of diamonds, and I'm as clueless as the audience as to how you did it, right?

Same thing if you used mind control to compel me to answer your question, right? Do you figure you'd learn that it was the six of diamonds, and that I -- and the audience -- would have no memory of you psychically making me say that?
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drewkitty ~..~
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Re: Stretch Time question

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

While the power lets the mutant know the outcome his intents, the intents are not actually doing the actions. And there is also a data/information limit implied in the text. The mutant would know if (s)he was successful in the intent of mind bonding. And thus I could make an argument that the mutant would only know if the mind bond was successful or not.

There are layers of information and the super power only reads the most superficial layer of information.

If you take in account 'how far into the future' the power lets the char look: One action into the future. And remember that it takes time to sort through any knowledge gained through a mind bond. The conclusion would be the same. That the mutant/psychic would not be able to gain any knowledge in the combination you purposed.
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Re: Stretch Time question

Unread post by Regularguy »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:While the power lets the mutant know the outcome his intents, the intents are not actually doing the actions.


Well, the specific wording is that "the character is able to see what happens in the next 6-10 seconds after he makes his one move."

There are layers of information and the super power only reads the most superficial layer of information.


Where does it say that?

If you take in account 'how far into the future' the power lets the char look: One action into the future. And remember that it takes time to sort through any knowledge gained through a mind bond. The conclusion would be the same.


Well, it doesn't actually say anything about taking some sorting time after using Mind Bond, right? Just that he instantly gains all of the other guy's memories? (What if the guy with Stretch Time and Mind Bond had Total Recall? Would that matter?)

That the mutant/psychic would not be able to gain any knowledge in the combination you purposed.


I'm not sure I'm convinced -- but what about a lesser version? What if, instead of using a major power like Mind Bond, a character sees what will happen if he uses Telepathy to pick up someone's surface thoughts? Do you figure he gets to find out what he would learn if he uses his next action to spend some ISP picking up someone's next surface thought? Is he then minimally competent to recall that small amount of information? Does he then need to spend those ISP?
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Re: Stretch Time question

Unread post by eliakon »

I, personally, don't think that you can get an unlimited amount of information. I would not allow a all of a mind bond. I might allow though knowing the answer to a specific question. Maybe. The reason I say "maybe" is that you get one action. That action is performing the psionic action... not sorting the information or processing it. I am leery of the argument that a person can just instantly search an entire mind worth of memories for one specific memory that they are looking for in a couple seconds.
Basically you would get a general idea of what you would get from a Mind Bond... but you would not get a 'snap shot' of their mind to look through at your leisure in secret.

Also, Total Recall, IMHO doesn't do anything for Mind Bond. The power says that you forget the memories. I see that as part of the power, not something to be weaseled around with a minor power.
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Re: Stretch Time question

Unread post by Regularguy »

eliakon wrote:Also, Total Recall, IMHO doesn't do anything for Mind Bond. The power says that you forget the memories. I see that as part of the power, not something to be weaseled around with a minor power.


Well, you forget those memories hours later, is what the power says. I don't figure that Total Recall would come in handy at all, so long as it hasn't been more than an hour or two since the Mind Bond, since you "retain a complete memory" for at least three hours after the "instant mental link" lets you "learn EVERYTHING there is to know about the other" -- but since you assumed the part about needing to take time to sort through stuff, I was curious as to whether you'd assume something about Total Recall.
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drewkitty ~..~
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Re: Stretch Time question

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Yep, the text says the char "...can see what happens…" which does not say that the char can know anything other then SEE what would happen. That is the "And there is also a data/information limit implied in the text." part of my post you didn't quote. Which answers your question about where does it say that the power only shows the surface level of information.

When considering that the text only says the char "...can see what happens…" my original post is a bit liberal in it's interpretation about what can be done.
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Re: Stretch Time question

Unread post by Regularguy »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:Yep, the text says the char "...can see what happens…" which does not say that the char can know anything other then SEE what would happen. That is the "And there is also a data/information limit implied in the text." part of my post you didn't quote. Which answers your question about where does it say that the power only shows the surface level of information.


Well, that just raises more questions! Or, actually, the same questions!

I'd asked whether someone with Stretch Time could fire it up and ask a guy which card he'd picked, and get told "six of diamonds" -- and then, in the present, not ask that question, and not get told, but know the answer as if by magic.

I don't think you answered that one -- but do you figure "see" includes "hear", or do you figure the card trick I described is impossible? All I knew was, you said you might allow knowing the answer to a specific question someone could pick up with a Mind Bond -- and so long as you weren't automatically excluding that by pointing at "see", then how could I have known that you wanted to lean hard on "see"?

I mean, it's not like I'm psychic. :wink:
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Re: Stretch Time question

Unread post by Sir_Spirit »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:...about mind boning with...


...this is my new favorite phrase of the day. Mind boning, on psychic worlds this is likely a thing. Wonder if they get Psychic std's...
Damn ICE/BCP/BorderPatrol! Damn everyone who won’t damn ICE/BCP/Border Patrol!! Damn everyone that won’t put lights in his windows and sit up all night damning CE/BCP/BorderPatrol!!!
If you support ICE/BCP/BorderPatrol at this point, you would have called the Gestapo on the people surreptitiously moving into your neighbor's attic and huffed that you were only following the law.
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drewkitty ~..~
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Re: Stretch Time question

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

Sir_Spirit wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:...about mind boning with...


...this is my new favorite phrase of the day. Mind boning, on psychic worlds this is likely a thing. Wonder if they get Psychic std's...

Ask Spock.
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Sir_Spirit
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Re: Stretch Time question

Unread post by Sir_Spirit »

drewkitty ~..~ wrote:
Sir_Spirit wrote:
drewkitty ~..~ wrote:...about mind boning with...


...this is my new favorite phrase of the day. Mind boning, on psychic worlds this is likely a thing. Wonder if they get Psychic std's...

Ask Spock.


...only every seven years....
Damn ICE/BCP/BorderPatrol! Damn everyone who won’t damn ICE/BCP/Border Patrol!! Damn everyone that won’t put lights in his windows and sit up all night damning CE/BCP/BorderPatrol!!!
If you support ICE/BCP/BorderPatrol at this point, you would have called the Gestapo on the people surreptitiously moving into your neighbor's attic and huffed that you were only following the law.
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