Max Number of Mega-Powers

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Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by Prodigy »

I know the books state 1 Achilles' Heel for every Mega-Power, but what is the max amount of Megas one can have? I remember seeing 3 as standing out...
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by Nightmask »

Afraid I don't remember the books ever saying 'for every mega-power take one limitation' anywhere.
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by ShadowLogan »

Prodigy wrote:I know the books state 1 Achilles' Heel for every Mega-Power, but what is the max amount of Megas one can have? I remember seeing 3 as standing out...

???

According to HU2E (pg181 and 183) you only get 1 Special Mega-Power & Achilles's Heel, you either select or roll for it. The GM can allow for two incidents of either, but there does not seem to be a relation to the number of SMP to AH.

It does appear that SMP and AH are both limited to one selection each, two with GM's permission as neither table has a "re roll for multiples" like some tables I know of.
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by say652 »

Up to two unless immortality or vampire is chosen
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by Razorwing »

Given that Immortality counts as 2 Mega Powers while Undead (not Vampire, Say652) counts as 2 Mega Powers and 1 Achilles Heel, I'm inclined to say that 2 is generally the most allowed for the average Mega Hero.

As for balancing Mega Powers with Achilles Heels... this is generally an accepted practice... one vulnerability for every Mega Power (or equivalent for powers that count as 2).

That said, Mega Heroes can be more powerful than this... with the GM's permission of course, but the general rule is for every Mega Power one has, an Achilles Heel also needs to be taken. Such powerful Megas will be even rarer than the normal Megas (who aren't that common to begin with).

Of course, when taking an Achilles Heel... it should be one that at least has a chance of showing up in the game. I can think of one Mega in print that has a vulnerability that just doesn't happen... ever; Burning Scythe from the Skraypers setting. Not only does this character have a Mega Power that is worth 2 powers (Immortality), but only has a single vulnerability that just doesn't apply... a vulnerability to magic on a world where magic is unknown (despite being in the 3 Galaxies). If a vulnerability never shows up to plague such a character... does he really have such a vulnerability?

Hopefully the expanded Mega Hero rules we are supposed to be getting with Hardware Unlimited will answer some of these questions (such as how many Mega Powers are too many and such).
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by Nightmask »

Razorwing wrote:Given that Immortality counts as 2 Mega Powers while Undead (not Vampire, Say652) counts as 2 Mega Powers and 1 Achilles Heel, I'm inclined to say that 2 is generally the most allowed for the average Mega Hero.

As for balancing Mega Powers with Achilles Heels... this is generally an accepted practice... one vulnerability for every Mega Power (or equivalent for powers that count as 2).

That said, Mega Heroes can be more powerful than this... with the GM's permission of course, but the general rule is for every Mega Power one has, an Achilles Heel also needs to be taken. Such powerful Megas will be even rarer than the normal Megas (who aren't that common to begin with).

Of course, when taking an Achilles Heel... it should be one that at least has a chance of showing up in the game. I can think of one Mega in print that has a vulnerability that just doesn't happen... ever; Burning Scythe from the Skraypers setting. Not only does this character have a Mega Power that is worth 2 powers (Immortality), but only has a single vulnerability that just doesn't apply... a vulnerability to magic on a world where magic is unknown (despite being in the 3 Galaxies). If a vulnerability never shows up to plague such a character... does he really have such a vulnerability?

Hopefully the expanded Mega Hero rules we are supposed to be getting with Hardware Unlimited will answer some of these questions (such as how many Mega Powers are too many and such).


You mean general HOUSE rule right? Because I haven't seen anywhere that there's a 'for every one mega-power take one achilles' heel limitation' rule. From reading it you can have as many as 2 mega-powers with one achilles' heel, you could have one of each, or you could even have one mega-power and 2 achilles' heels depending on GM intent but no 'for every mega power you have take one achilles' heel' rule.
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by Looonatic »

The GM can allow as many as he or she wants. I wouldn't though.
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by Dakchronos »

I believe the book you'd be looking for is Rifter 37 for alternative Mega-Being rules. PU2's Immortal category often provides the Mega-Immortal power as a bonus ability, so at most, 3 would be the limit.
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by drewkitty ~..~ »

The Immortal Godling is the template Dak is referring to. However, the text is a bi loose in that there are holes which can be liberally interpreted as the char getting two MH powers along with the MH immortality power, while if looking at it restrictively the char would only get a single extra MH power on top of the MH Immortality.
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by Razorwing »

It may not outright state it, but is heavily implied that for every Mega Power, you get one vulnerability to balance it out. It even states before both the actual descriptions of powers and vulnerabilities that 2 powers or vulnerabilities can be taken with GM's permission (save Megapowers 81-00, indicating that they count as 2 each).

You may call it a house rule... most would call it common sense. What GM would allow a player to take a handful of Mega-Powers but only require a single vulnerability for all of them... given how overpowering they can be (especially when combined with Major and Minor powers that are also enhanced by being a Mega).

Regardless, the new Mega Hero rules that will be in Hardware Unlimited will likely settle things once and for all... making this "house rule" into RAW. Why quibble on a technicality that makes sense... unless you want to rule-lawyer a powerful Mega with 3+ Mega Powers but only 1 vulnerability. That is more Say652's schtick (with his tendency for ultra-powerful characters).
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

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Razorwing wrote:It may not outright state it, but is heavily implied that for every Mega Power, you get one vulnerability to balance it out. It even states before both the actual descriptions of powers and vulnerabilities that 2 powers or vulnerabilities can be taken with GM's permission (save Megapowers 81-00, indicating that they count as 2 each).

You may call it a house rule... most would call it common sense. What GM would allow a player to take a handful of Mega-Powers but only require a single vulnerability for all of them... given how overpowering they can be (especially when combined with Major and Minor powers that are also enhanced by being a Mega).

Regardless, the new Mega Hero rules that will be in Hardware Unlimited will likely settle things once and for all... making this "house rule" into RAW. Why quibble on a technicality that makes sense... unless you want to rule-lawyer a powerful Mega with 3+ Mega Powers but only 1 vulnerability. That is more Say652's schtick (with his tendency for ultra-powerful characters).


No most wouldn't call it common sense they'd call it a house rule, just because it's what you want it to be doesn't make it 'common sense' nor does it mean that they imply such because if they meant it to be that way they'd state it outright but they do not. You can have 2 mega-powers and only one limitation, you can have 1 mega-power and two limitations, or you can have one of each with nothing to suggest or imply it's supposed to be 'for every one you have take one limitation' and indeed the direct material contradicts that suggestion.
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It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by eliakon »

Considering that Mega-Heroes are explicitly optional characters that specifically say that they need GM input on their creation if they are allowed in a game at all...

...I would say you can have as many powers as your GM says you can, and have as many weaknesses as your GM says you do. Under most circumstances that will be a minimum of one of each. Beyond that though it is pure "It depends" territory."
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

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eliakon wrote:Considering that Mega-Heroes are explicitly optional characters that specifically say that they need GM input on their creation if they are allowed in a game at all...

...I would say you can have as many powers as your GM says you can, and have as many weaknesses as your GM says you do. Under most circumstances that will be a minimum of one of each. Beyond that though it is pure "It depends" territory."


I'd say that covers things completely.
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It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

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Only mega powers that are fun are tremendous SDC and the supernatural PS power
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by Reagren Wright »

Megas are under the guideline of whether or not each Game Master wants them in his or her
game. The rules guiding them in HU 2nd edition are NOT definitive. For example, in a game I
played with Carmen Bellaire (Powers Unlimited sourcebooks) he made a guy with Tremendous
P.S. taken twice! Now it doesn't SAY you can't take the same power twice, but you could assume
this was the intent. Nevertheless according to the text its at least feasible if the Game Master
allows. It also says you can't select a second Mega Power if you take Undead and
Immortality. HOWEVER, Demon Lords, Demi Gods, and Godlings from Powers Unlimited Two
come with Immortality plus can "select one other Special Mega Power" (or sometimes in the case
of a Demon Lord or Godling another Major), ergo, this cannon material trumps what was original
stated in the HU 2nd edition. So as Kevin and I are so fond of saying, if your G.M. allows it, and
the other players won't throw a fit, make whatever guy you want. Remember the G.M. is the one
who has to cater the adventure toward the character's power level.
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by SittingBull »

I never saw the fun in making, let alone playing, a mega-hero.
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by Regularguy »

SittingBull wrote:I never saw the fun in making, let alone playing, a mega-hero.


What sorts of characters do you find to be fun, or interesting?

Seems to me a mega can be a useful way of filling in the blanks if you have something specific in mind and no other easy way to do it. Like, if we're doing undersea adventures down at ocean depths where fish go -- well, sure, you could do that with APS: Liquid; but what if you genuinely want to do it with Animal Abilities: Fish? Or what if you're playing an Artificial Life Form:Robot type, doing the "some sort of advanced robot" thing -- and you already have "doesn't need to breathe at all", but it'd make sense to also get the side effect of not needing to eat or drink?

Stuff that fits the character you want to play, is what I'm saying. So maybe you take the two Major Powers that fit having been Mystically Bestowed as the designated champion of the United States of America -- and you want mega-longevity just for the backstory, so that you were empowered back in 1776 and have been serving your country ever since. Sure, you could just rework that as a Three-Major-Power Experiment with full Immortality -- but say you really want to play up the angle of only having the abilities so long as you're acting in the best interests of the American people and their Constitution. Or whatever.

What do you want to play? Maybe a mega fits it.
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

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Razorwing wrote:Given that Immortality counts as 2 Mega Powers while Undead (not Vampire, Say652) counts as 2 Mega Powers and 1 Achilles Heel, I'm inclined to say that 2 is generally the most allowed for the average Mega Hero.

As for balancing Mega Powers with Achilles Heels... this is generally an accepted practice... one vulnerability for every Mega Power (or equivalent for powers that count as 2).

That said, Mega Heroes can be more powerful than this... with the GM's permission of course, but the general rule is for every Mega Power one has, an Achilles Heel also needs to be taken. Such powerful Megas will be even rarer than the normal Megas (who aren't that common to begin with).

Of course, when taking an Achilles Heel... it should be one that at least has a chance of showing up in the game. I can think of one Mega in print that has a vulnerability that just doesn't happen... ever; Burning Scythe from the Skraypers setting. Not only does this character have a Mega Power that is worth 2 powers (Immortality), but only has a single vulnerability that just doesn't apply... a vulnerability to magic on a world where magic is unknown (despite being in the 3 Galaxies). If a vulnerability never shows up to plague such a character... does he really have such a vulnerability?

Hopefully the expanded Mega Hero rules we are supposed to be getting with Hardware Unlimited will answer some of these questions (such as how many Mega Powers are too many and such).


But that provides the heroes the ability to truly shine does it not? If Burning Scythe has never really been challenged before and suddenly a new hero (from a Rift, etc.) appears with the clear ability to harm him, it makes him that much more dangerous for all that he is now vulnerable.
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by Razorwing »

Not really because it means that in order to challenge the character, something that is very unlikely in the setting has to be done. They have gone to great lengths to explain that despite being both in the 3 Galaxies and close to Phase World that Seeron is relatively unknown to the galactic community and that natives of Serron DON'T know about magic.

Sure, as outside observers of the events, we can decide that a new hero appears out of the blue that knows magic and can pose a threat to the Burnning Scythe... but that would be like creating a Hero in HU that is specifically vulnerable only to Phase Tech from Phase World... something that is unlikely to appear in the natural course of a standard HU game (just as Magical Heroes are unlikely to happen in a standard Skraypers game).

If a player knows that they are NEVER going to encounter a particular vulnerability in the game... is it really fair to let them be vulnerable to that item? If a GM decided that there will be no magical heroes or villains... or magic at all in the game... is a Character really vulnerable if he chooses Magic as his vulnerability? Not really because it will NEVER come up. If a hero never faces his vulnerability... is he being heroic?
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

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Razorwing wrote:Not really because it means that in order to challenge the character, something that is very unlikely in the setting has to be done. They have gone to great lengths to explain that despite being both in the 3 Galaxies and close to Phase World that Seeron is relatively unknown to the galactic community and that natives of Serron DON'T know about magic.

Sure, as outside observers of the events, we can decide that a new hero appears out of the blue that knows magic and can pose a threat to the Burnning Scythe... but that would be like creating a Hero in HU that is specifically vulnerable only to Phase Tech from Phase World... something that is unlikely to appear in the natural course of a standard HU game (just as Magical Heroes are unlikely to happen in a standard Skraypers game).

If a player knows that they are NEVER going to encounter a particular vulnerability in the game... is it really fair to let them be vulnerable to that item? If a GM decided that there will be no magical heroes or villains... or magic at all in the game... is a Character really vulnerable if he chooses Magic as his vulnerability? Not really because it will NEVER come up. If a hero never faces his vulnerability... is he being heroic?


That last line there kind of takes that one step too far, Superman doesn't have to face kryptonite or magic to be heroic even though he's vulnerable to both. A hero is heroic for facing threats for the good of others, facing things like his vulnerability only tests how devoted he is to that heroism.
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It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by Regularguy »

Obscure comic-book trivia (and not a conversion, so as not to run afoul of the rules): the Swordsman was a supervillain who eventually reformed and went the 'superhero' route, even joining the Avengers for a little over a year and a half before dying in the line of duty.

Anyhow, way back when he first got his indistinguishable-from-magic sword, he was told it had exactly one drawback: pointing the blade at folks and firing its built-in energy blast is usually just fine, but against one particular target it'd cause the Swordsman to get zapped instead.

And, as far as I can tell, in the eight years that followed -- including that year-and-a-half-plus serving with the Avengers -- he was never in a situation where that came up; he zapped all sorts of other targets as they came his way, and presumably would've switched tactics if he'd had to -- but he didn't, because he never faced the one villain who'd have automatically been problematic, or a hostage-taker who built a plan around that limitation, or whatever; it just never wound up mattering.
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by eliakon »

Razorwing wrote:Not really because it means that in order to challenge the character, something that is very unlikely in the setting has to be done. They have gone to great lengths to explain that despite being both in the 3 Galaxies and close to Phase World that Seeron is relatively unknown to the galactic community and that natives of Serron DON'T know about magic.

Sure, as outside observers of the events, we can decide that a new hero appears out of the blue that knows magic and can pose a threat to the Burnning Scythe... but that would be like creating a Hero in HU that is specifically vulnerable only to Phase Tech from Phase World... something that is unlikely to appear in the natural course of a standard HU game (just as Magical Heroes are unlikely to happen in a standard Skraypers game).

If a player knows that they are NEVER going to encounter a particular vulnerability in the game... is it really fair to let them be vulnerable to that item? If a GM decided that there will be no magical heroes or villains... or magic at all in the game... is a Character really vulnerable if he chooses Magic as his vulnerability? Not really because it will NEVER come up. If a hero never faces his vulnerability... is he being heroic?

Its not a question of being heroic or not. They can still be heroic.
What they are though is a munchkin. In the classical "Its technically legal, and gives me more power with no disadvantages so I'll do it even though its totally broken and not in the spirit of the game in the slightest" sense of the meaning.

And the worst part is that a PC built like that basically IS perfectly safe... because if the GM DOES introduce a nemesis with the power it will seem contrived and the cry of "Adversarial GM" goes up. And if they beat that nemesis, you can't ever bring in another with out being a "Killer GM".
Which of course is part of the classical munchkin plan. After all, if there was a way to beat them, if there was any weakness it wouldn't be worth doing.

As an NPC villain it is slightly better in that it has a plausible reason for being done. Specifically because it is nigh-impossible to exploit it helps to make the settings "Big Bad" truly terrifying. And there is the plausible excuse that it leaves open going on an epic quest to find the one magical McGuffin in the system that can hurt him... But its still pretty cheap. If you want a villain who has no weaknesses, just write him up with no weaknesses. Its an NPC, they don't always follow the rules very closely anyway, especially the major ones.
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by say652 »

If you're going to allow Megahero then be prepared as GM for incredibly powerful players.
If you cannot handle that power level then don't allow them.
I mean when Dragon Hatchling Physical Training adapts are required to challenge the heroes. It's a bit much.
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by eliakon »

say652 wrote:If you're going to allow Megahero then be prepared as GM for incredibly powerful players.
If you cannot handle that power level then don't allow them.
I mean when Dragon Hatchling Physical Training adapts are required to challenge the heroes. It's a bit much.

There are degrees of "powerful"
And to be blunt. Being a Megahero doesn't automatically make a character super powerful. It can make someone powerful, if they select the right powers and disadvantages. But it doesn't have to.
There is nothing about "handling the power" though that says a GM has to sit around and let a rules lawyer/munchkin game the system to avoid having to take their weaknesses. That isn't "power level" that is just flat out rules abuse. Now if the game is all about making cosmicly powerful characters that don't have weaknesses... then the GM can just say "go ahead, everyone can make Mega-Heroes. And don't bother with a weakness". That's one thing. But trying to sneak by and take something that you know you will never face and pass it off as a legitimate weakness? A weakness that you are supposed to be taking as a 'price paid for/that balances your awesome powers'.? No, that is basically text book munchkinisim right there.
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by Regularguy »

eliakon wrote:And to be blunt. Being a Megahero doesn't automatically make a character super powerful. It can make someone powerful, if they select the right powers and disadvantages. But it doesn't have to.


It's kind of interesting, isn't it? Like, if you take Invulnerability as a regular hero, you're bulletproof and fireproof; and if you instead go the mega-hero route, you maybe pick up longevity -- which never actually comes up in a session, right? -- plus a vulnerability to fire, or silver bullets, or whatever. Is that worth a slower experience progression?

Or you're a Physical Training character who wasn't bulletproof before, and still isn't now that he's a mega-hero with immunity to disease -- and you wind up getting gunned down instead of high-tailing it and heading for cover, because you're a sucker for a pretty face or you're strutting around with an undeserved god syndrome or something. Is that worth a slower experience progression?

Or you picked powers that (a) let you shrug off conventional weapons, and (b) give you a heads-up when someone with Negate Super Abilities is on his way to kill you -- except you did it as a mega-hero, so you're too slow to get away before that guy shows up and negates your powers and puts you in the hospital, or the morgue. And so on.
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by say652 »

Use the Alien Power Category to sneak your favorite rifts cheese, let's say Amaki now choose Experiment and add more cheese for a Titan Juicer.
So your Amaki Titan Juicer, thousands of sdc, hundreds of hitpoints, Supernatural Strength and half damage from all nonmagic/psionic attacks.
Legal Alien Experiment just loaded with Cheese.
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by eliakon »

say652 wrote:Use the Alien Power Category to sneak your favorite rifts cheese, let's say Amaki now choose Experiment and add more cheese for a Titan Juicer.
So your Amaki Titan Juicer, thousands of sdc, hundreds of hitpoints, Supernatural Strength and half damage from all nonmagic/psionic attacks.
Legal Alien Experiment just loaded with Cheese.

Well not book legal. Its house legal though.
And I would say its just like picking a weakness that you know you will never use. Trying to weasel word things to allow technicalities to allow another technicality to be implied so that a third technicality can be put into play. Its pure rules lawyering and munchkinisim
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by say652 »

eliakon wrote:
say652 wrote:Use the Alien Power Category to sneak your favorite rifts cheese, let's say Amaki now choose Experiment and add more cheese for a Titan Juicer.
So your Amaki Titan Juicer, thousands of sdc, hundreds of hitpoints, Supernatural Strength and half damage from all nonmagic/psionic attacks.
Legal Alien Experiment just loaded with Cheese.

Well not book legal. Its house legal though.
And I would say its just like picking a weakness that you know you will never use. Trying to weasel word things to allow technicalities to allow another technicality to be implied so that a third technicality can be put into play. Its pure rules lawyering and munchkinisim


Read both power categories.

Amaki legal Alien.
Titan Juicer legal experiment.

In Juicer uprising Amaki isn't mentioned as inelligible.

I can wording munchkin as well.
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by Razorwing »

When it comes down to it... the Mega Hero option is about balance.

Tell me what exactly is balanced about a Mega Hero who is Impervious to Disease, Doesn't need to Eat, Drink or Brethe, Has Tremendous amounts of SDC and Strength, Lives longer than most (may even be immortal) and strikes awe into those who see him... not to mention has all the regular powers of other heroes... but his only vulnerability is a common allergy (that in all likelihood can be alleviated by a simple, over the counter medication commonly used by everyone)?

And that is only using the Mega Powers available in the main Corebook... but only one (and likely the least penalizing) vulnerability. Such powers, when combined with the Major and Minor Powers availabile (especially the ones available in PU1&3) can very easily create a character that can't seriously be challenged in any way. If one knows they are going to be victorious in a situation, then are they being heroic? Is Superman being heroic when he puts himself in the path of a bomb blast when he know it won't harm him... even when there is no one to protect from such a blast?

As for the Burning Scythe character... as it stands in the setting... there is no magic on Seeron. No heroes from Seeron are likely to learn it... since there is no one to learn it from. There are no known magical artifacts (magic weapons or objects). The likelihood of a magical character coming to Seeron is unlikely... even though it is located both in the Three Galaxies and close to Phase World, Seeron is a small, back-water world with little of interest to bring such characters to the planet... and is under the control of a (relatively, by Galactic Standards) primitive and aggressive species that is making powerful allies outside of their System (including the Splugorth). Why risk a potential intergalactic incident by fostering rebellion on an insignificant world that no one really cares about? In otherwords... the Burning Scythe is likely never to actually face an opponent that can exploit his one vulnerability... and if no one uses it... is he really vulnerable? What point is there to being vulnerable to something if it is never used? No magic on Seeron means that the Burning Scythe's vulnerability to magic is pointless as it will never be an issue... at least not without the unlikely appearance of some MacGuffin that makes it an issue. To be honest... the choice of the Burning Scythe's vulnerability is likely because of the fact that there is no magic on Seeron... so that while he is technically vulnerable to something, as per the Mega-Hero mechanics... the setting in which he is in makes it a moot point... for there is no magic on Seeron (and without a serious MacGuffin, there never will be).
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by Nightmask »

Really not seeing why you think Mega-Heroes are about balance, maybe you're reading way too much into the inclusion of a vulnerability as part of the package. They're more about presenting a hero (or villain as the case may be) that's potentially a cut above the average super-hero.

As far as being heroic goes, not everything's epic heroism sometimes it's just average, ordinary kind of heroism and oftentimes it's just routine it doesn't make a character not a hero if much of the time their work goes by fairly easily.
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by eliakon »

Basically I seen Burning Scythe as a weasel around the text.
The book says "such characters will always have at least one weakness"
But he doesn't really have a weakness. Because he has picked a weakness that doesn't exist in the setting. I know it theoretically exists, but when your weakness is something that's existence requires literally rewriting one of the settings basic fundamental assumptions, then I am going to say that it effectively doesn't exist.
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by Nightmask »

eliakon wrote:Basically I seen Burning Scythe as a weasel around the text.
The book says "such characters will always have at least one weakness"
But he doesn't really have a weakness. Because he has picked a weakness that doesn't exist in the setting. I know it theoretically exists, but when your weakness is something that's existence requires literally rewriting one of the settings basic fundamental assumptions, then I am going to say that it effectively doesn't exist.


I can't seem to find anywhere in this thread mention as to who/what Burning Scythe is, is that an NPC or someone's PC? I know there was at least one mega-villain NPC from that setting who had if memory serves four mega-powers (one of them being immortality) and no vulnerabilities.
Fair warning: I consider being called a munchkin a highly offensive slur and do report people when they err in doing so.

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It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by eliakon »

Nightmask wrote:
eliakon wrote:Basically I seen Burning Scythe as a weasel around the text.
The book says "such characters will always have at least one weakness"
But he doesn't really have a weakness. Because he has picked a weakness that doesn't exist in the setting. I know it theoretically exists, but when your weakness is something that's existence requires literally rewriting one of the settings basic fundamental assumptions, then I am going to say that it effectively doesn't exist.


I can't seem to find anywhere in this thread mention as to who/what Burning Scythe is, is that an NPC or someone's PC? I know there was at least one mega-villain NPC from that setting who had if memory serves four mega-powers (one of them being immortality) and no vulnerabilities.

NPC from Skraypers.
Which is a no magic setting. And his weakness is magic.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by Nightmask »

eliakon wrote:
Nightmask wrote:
eliakon wrote:Basically I seen Burning Scythe as a weasel around the text.
The book says "such characters will always have at least one weakness"
But he doesn't really have a weakness. Because he has picked a weakness that doesn't exist in the setting. I know it theoretically exists, but when your weakness is something that's existence requires literally rewriting one of the settings basic fundamental assumptions, then I am going to say that it effectively doesn't exist.


I can't seem to find anywhere in this thread mention as to who/what Burning Scythe is, is that an NPC or someone's PC? I know there was at least one mega-villain NPC from that setting who had if memory serves four mega-powers (one of them being immortality) and no vulnerabilities.


NPC from Skraypers.
Which is a no magic setting. And his weakness is magic.


So he's like the villain I'm remembering then, effectively no vulnerabilities beyond the basics. As an NPC though it's not like we can expect them to all follow the build rules, I mean are there ANY books where ALL the NPC in the book qualify as book legal?
Fair warning: I consider being called a munchkin a highly offensive slur and do report people when they err in doing so.

'Reality is very disappointing.' - Jonathan Switcher from Mannequin

It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by Saitou Hajime »

Nightmask wrote:
eliakon wrote:
Nightmask wrote:
eliakon wrote:Basically I seen Burning Scythe as a weasel around the text.
The book says "such characters will always have at least one weakness"
But he doesn't really have a weakness. Because he has picked a weakness that doesn't exist in the setting. I know it theoretically exists, but when your weakness is something that's existence requires literally rewriting one of the settings basic fundamental assumptions, then I am going to say that it effectively doesn't exist.


I can't seem to find anywhere in this thread mention as to who/what Burning Scythe is, is that an NPC or someone's PC? I know there was at least one mega-villain NPC from that setting who had if memory serves four mega-powers (one of them being immortality) and no vulnerabilities.


NPC from Skraypers.
Which is a no magic setting. And his weakness is magic.


So he's like the villain I'm remembering then, effectively no vulnerabilities beyond the basics. As an NPC though it's not like we can expect them to all follow the build rules, I mean are there ANY books where ALL the NPC in the book qualify as book legal?


Rifts sourcebook One?
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by Daniel Stoker »

Saitou Hajime wrote:Rifts sourcebook One?


I'm pretty sure James T's bionic friend broke pretty much all the rules. (I wish I could remember his name though...)


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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by eliakon »

Nightmask wrote:
eliakon wrote:
Nightmask wrote:
eliakon wrote:Basically I seen Burning Scythe as a weasel around the text.
The book says "such characters will always have at least one weakness"
But he doesn't really have a weakness. Because he has picked a weakness that doesn't exist in the setting. I know it theoretically exists, but when your weakness is something that's existence requires literally rewriting one of the settings basic fundamental assumptions, then I am going to say that it effectively doesn't exist.


I can't seem to find anywhere in this thread mention as to who/what Burning Scythe is, is that an NPC or someone's PC? I know there was at least one mega-villain NPC from that setting who had if memory serves four mega-powers (one of them being immortality) and no vulnerabilities.


NPC from Skraypers.
Which is a no magic setting. And his weakness is magic.


So he's like the villain I'm remembering then, effectively no vulnerabilities beyond the basics. As an NPC though it's not like we can expect them to all follow the build rules, I mean are there ANY books where ALL the NPC in the book qualify as book legal?

That's the point though. If your going to break it, break it.
Make a mega villain with no weakness.
Don't try to pretend that he has a weakness... when he doesn't really have one. That's disingenuous at best.
The rules are not a bludgeon with which to hammer a character into a game. They are a guide to how a group of friends can get together to weave a collective story that entertains everyone involved. We forget that at our peril.

Edmund Burke wrote:The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by Nightmask »

eliakon wrote:
Nightmask wrote:
eliakon wrote:
Nightmask wrote:
eliakon wrote:Basically I seen Burning Scythe as a weasel around the text.
The book says "such characters will always have at least one weakness"
But he doesn't really have a weakness. Because he has picked a weakness that doesn't exist in the setting. I know it theoretically exists, but when your weakness is something that's existence requires literally rewriting one of the settings basic fundamental assumptions, then I am going to say that it effectively doesn't exist.


I can't seem to find anywhere in this thread mention as to who/what Burning Scythe is, is that an NPC or someone's PC? I know there was at least one mega-villain NPC from that setting who had if memory serves four mega-powers (one of them being immortality) and no vulnerabilities.


NPC from Skraypers.
Which is a no magic setting. And his weakness is magic.


So he's like the villain I'm remembering then, effectively no vulnerabilities beyond the basics. As an NPC though it's not like we can expect them to all follow the build rules, I mean are there ANY books where ALL the NPC in the book qualify as book legal?


That's the point though. If your going to break it, break it.
Make a mega villain with no weakness.
Don't try to pretend that he has a weakness... when he doesn't really have one. That's disingenuous at best.


Well we don't know why the weakness was given, the writer might have thought 'well people often like to bring in stuff from other settings or areas or transfer them to other areas so in campaigns where they include magic then he should be vulnerable in those settings'. Much like you'd list a werewolf's silver vulnerability even if they were on a world without silver on the off-chance someone wanted to cross-over settings they'd include the weakness for just in case.
Fair warning: I consider being called a munchkin a highly offensive slur and do report people when they err in doing so.

'Reality is very disappointing.' - Jonathan Switcher from Mannequin

It's 'canon', not 'cannon'. A cannon is a big gun like on pirate ships, canon is what you mean when referring to something as being contained within one of the books such as how many dice to roll for a stat.
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by fbdaury »

say652 wrote:
eliakon wrote:
say652 wrote:Use the Alien Power Category to sneak your favorite rifts cheese, let's say Amaki now choose Experiment and add more cheese for a Titan Juicer.
So your Amaki Titan Juicer, thousands of sdc, hundreds of hitpoints, Supernatural Strength and half damage from all nonmagic/psionic attacks.
Legal Alien Experiment just loaded with Cheese.

Well not book legal. Its house legal though.
And I would say its just like picking a weakness that you know you will never use. Trying to weasel word things to allow technicalities to allow another technicality to be implied so that a third technicality can be put into play. Its pure rules lawyering and munchkinisim


Read both power categories.

Amaki legal Alien.
Titan Juicer legal experiment.

In Juicer uprising Amaki isn't mentioned as inelligible.

I can wording munchkin as well.


Not at all- the absence of a line in the specific description forbidding Amaki does NOT override the fact that Amaki ARE minor supernatural creatures able to shrug off minor MD damage and heal at abnormal rates- either of which would make them ineligible for Juicer conversion- their dense rock-like skin tissue and inhuman body chemistry would make the implantation and use of a bio-comp impossible, and even if you could implant it, their enhanced healing would push the system out of the body as invasive foreign matter.

You seem to think that unless something is directly spelled out as being illegal, it is RAW legal- this is a fallacy of logic and indicates you either lack common sense or you weasel for the most munchkin combination possible.

PS: Re-read page 16 of Juicer Uprising, where under Supernatural Beings it mentions that most alien life forms are ineligible for Juicer conversion- Amaki are pretty alien to me.
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by Cr'Imson »

fbdaury wrote:You seem to think that unless something is directly spelled out as being illegal, it is RAW legal- this is a fallacy of logic and indicates you either lack common sense or you weasel for the most munchkin combination possible.

A statement that could apply to every topic where the HU-2E Immortality Mega-Power comes up.

Questions - Why does everyone assume that the Immortality and the Undead Mega-Powers both count as two selections each? Where is that written? If a GM only allows for one Mega-Power are Immortality and/or Undead still allowed to be chosen? If not, where is that written? Why do they still appear on the list without clause (other than the Immortality + Undead clause if two Mega-Powers are allowed by GM)?

Even More Questions - Has anyone ever really thought of why Immortality + Undead Mega-Powers may not be compatible? Other than the standard "They must both count as two selections each as they can not be combined" approach?

Maybe because Immortality = Can not die/be killed = Can not be raised/animated as Undead?
Maybe because Undead = Died/was killed and later raised/animated = Was never really "Immortal" to begin with?

Maybe this would also apply to other forms of Undead, like Vampires?

How is it that Players are willing to accept taking an Achilles' Heel, even when the GM is willing to allow a nerfed version of such, but then go on to try and circumvent the built-in vulnerabilities of the Immortal Mega-Power - by taking additional powers such as Invulnerability, Indestructible Bones, Impervious to fire, etc.?

Maybe the "All penalties/weaknesses supersede any bonuses or abilities ordinarily provided by a super ability" rule (see HU-2E, pg. 183 - in the "Note" section) should be applied here?
(Yes, I know that that line is from the Achilles' Heel portion of the Mega-Hero option, but maybe...just maybe, mind you...it would apply to all of the implied vulnerabilities built in to Mega-Heroes. The vulnerabilities of the Immortal Mega-Power are most likely there for a good reason and should not be altered on a whim, and especially not at the sole discretion of the Player(s) at any rate.)

Why do Immortal Humans all of a sudden get an extra Shapechange: Any Human Ethnicity ability of unlimited duration? (see PU2)

Why do ALL Immortals all of a sudden gain a bunch of extra bonuses/powers (see PU2) on top of all of the other bonuses for being Immortal (see HU-2E) on top of all of the bonuses for having Super Powers?

Why would this Mega-Power even be allowed to apply to Gods, Demons, Deevils and the like (see PU2)? Do Gods/Demons/Deevils , if "killed", not just reform back in their home dimension anyway? If Gods are "killed", even in their own home dimension, can they not just be brought back, within a few days, by 2 or more members of their pantheon?
(Please, all answers of "Because 'Munchkin Book X' allows it to be so" aside at this point, thanks.)


Just asking is all. In all reality, I do not expect any satisfactory answers on this topic.
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Re: Max Number of Mega-Powers

Unread post by Axelmania »

Reagren Wright wrote:Demon Lords, Demi Gods, and Godlings from Powers Unlimited Two come with Immortality plus can "select one other Special Mega Power"

This is what I was trying to remember reading this thread.
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