Multiples lives and Negate Super Powers.

[SittingBull]

Would Negate Super Powers prevent a super with Multiple Lives from regenerating upon death?

[Bill]

Negate Super Powers specifies that it is a form of bio-manipulation that affects the brain, suppressing a superhuman's ability to use their powers. Multiple Lives reconstitutes the character from life-force after death. I think it comes down to whether the GM thinks this power specifically doesn't need to be activated by a brain or if it is activated by the absence of life in the brain. If either are true, then Negate Super Powers shouldn't work. On the other hand, a power is a power and what good is Negate Super Powers if it only works against some of them?

[SittingBull]

But it's after the body dies, the life force of the person (with the multiple lives) floats off (most times unseen) to find a safe place to reform.

[eliakon]

I agree with "no". As written the NSP is a bio-manipulation power that affects the brain. It explicitly therefore is not a dampening field that stops powers from working. If the power is not something that is dependent on a brain...then NSP can't work on it. Dead people are not affected by Bio-Manipulation powers as they are dead. So death provides immunity from NSP.

[Sir_Spirit]

I agree with "no". As written the NSP is a bio-manipulation power that affects the brain. It explicitly therefore is not a dampening field that stops powers from working. If the power is not something that is dependent on a brain...then NSP can't work on it. Dead people are not affected by Bio-Manipulation powers as they are dead. So death provides immunity from NSP.

I agree with this, though if they are also a necromancer I might let them try.

[The Beast]

Even if you allowed NSP to work against ML, they'd have to keep the body with them for the rest of their life. The second it was outside NSP's range the soul would be able to fly off to a safe spot and begin reforming a new body.

[barna10]

Even if you allowed NSP to work against ML, they'd have to keep the body with them for the rest of their life. The second it was outside NSP's range the soul would be able to fly off to a safe spot and begin reforming a new body.

I agree with this approach. You'd have to somehow sustain the Negation, otherwise the Multiple Lives Power would kick in as soon as the Negation stopped.

[Axelmania]

If there are powers which still work while not conscious, would this also mean that they are not brain-dependent?

It's hard to imagine something like Invulnerability being brain-linked for example, it seems like something benefiting all your cells.

How would it work if you had multiple heads?

Also isn't there some ability where you can take a form without a clear brain? Like APS water?

[eliakon]

If there are powers which still work while not conscious, would this also mean that they are not brain-dependent?

It's hard to imagine something like Invulnerability being brain-linked for example, it seems like something benefiting all your cells.

How would it work if you had multiple heads?

Also isn't there some ability where you can take a form without a clear brain? Like APS water?

The main problem here is that the write up of the game tries to be generic so that the specifics can be tweaked to fit....
...and then some of the powers are hyper-specific in how they work and only work if certain hitherto unto non-existent rules are implemented.

Personally my solution is that in my games I just make this a 'power dampener effect' that negates super powers, howsoever generated.

[ShadowLogan]

Even if you allowed NSP to work against ML, they'd have to keep the body with them for the rest of their life. The second it was outside NSP's range the soul would be able to fly off to a safe spot and begin reforming a new body.

I agree with this approach. You'd have to somehow sustain the Negation, otherwise the Multiple Lives Power would kick in as soon as the Negation stopped.

I second this.

[SittingBull]

But it's after the body dies, the life force of the person (with the multiple lives) floats off (most times unseen) to find a safe place to reform.

That the hero gets disadvantages and loses a level every time he loses a life.

[barna10]

But it's after the body dies, the life force of the person (with the multiple lives) floats off (most times unseen) to find a safe place to reform.

That the hero gets disadvantages and loses a level every time he loses a life.

Man...this power is badly written. It first says "As long as the body is not disintegrated, regeneration will occur, even if dismembered and scattered.", but then the very next paragraph states: "The moment the body dies it turns to dust"

....

Er....why does it matter if the original body was disintegrated or not if it's simply going to effectively disintegrate itself?
Also, why reduce the P.E. every time? Aren't you creating a new, perfect body each time? This seem like purely a limiting factor that shouldn't be applied. After all, the player could've instead taken Immortality or Invulnerability such that he'd probably never die so why punish him for taking a different power? If anything, I'd reduce mental stats as those are the ones that persist from form to form. Also, what if the P.E. was reduced due to disease? Would dying and being reborn reset the P.E. or would the P.E. loss be from the reduced amount? I'd rather just not reduce the stats and have the character simply suffer the level loss.

Also, why include the bit about the ectoplasm being vulnerable and the character possibly dying? The player chose Multiple Lives for a reason. Let him live...lol. I'd change this to simply allow someone to foil the process and delay the regeneration. If the ectoplasmic form dies, he takes twice as long to form a new body.

[ShadowLogan]

Er....why does it matter if the original body was disintegrated or not if it's simply going to effectively disintegrate itself?

It might matter if the "disintegration" effect is internal or external or simply come down to timing.

Also, why reduce the P.E. every time? Aren't you creating a new, perfect body each time?

Not likely. What you are doing is creating a clone. So the writers are looking at the "copy of a copy" degregation you hear about with cloning (most commonly in Sci-Fi as a plot point, like an early TNG episode or Stargate's Asguard), and the resulting clones not being as "genetically healthy" (which the PE attribute should cover I would think) as the donor.

[barna10]

Er....why does it matter if the original body was disintegrated or not if it's simply going to effectively disintegrate itself?

It might matter if the "disintegration" effect is internal or external or simply come down to timing.

Also, why reduce the P.E. every time? Aren't you creating a new, perfect body each time?

Not likely. What you are doing is creating a clone. So the writers are looking at the "copy of a copy" degregation you hear about with cloning (most commonly in Sci-Fi as a plot point, like an early TNG episode or Stargate's Asguard), and the resulting clones not being as "genetically healthy" (which the PE attribute should cover I would think) as the donor.

But you're not cloning. The spirit is effectively creating a new body. Should be a pristine version. this may also mean improvements aren't carried over (like magic tattoos or even some super powers)

[ShadowLogan]

In a sense though you are creating a clone body though with the power.

You assume the body should be pristine, but the way it works doesn't seem to bear that out. The life force is drained, which has to be reflected somewhere and the PE is arguably a "life force" meter.

Those with Super Powers IINM can't get magic tattoos per the rules.

[barna10]

In a sense though you are creating a clone body though with the power.

You assume the body should be pristine, but the way it works doesn't seem to bear that out. The life force is drained, which has to be reflected somewhere and the PE is arguably a "life force" meter.

Those with Super Powers IINM can't get magic tattoos per the rules.

Multiple Lives could come from other sources (Enchanted Weapon, Enchanted Object, a device, etc.).

Also, the "life force" isn't "drained". The body dies, but the spirit lives on. It's anew body and one's endurance is in no way tied to one' spirit.

Also, just because you are creating a "clone" doesn't mean you get a copy of a copy of a copy degradation. No, the drop in P.E. comes directly from the old D&D days where the subject of a Resurrection lost a point of Constitution and a level every time. It's simply a limitation mechanic to prevent immortality. I think you could justify it with the clone idea, but that would really be trying to put a nice spin on an outdated mechanic, an especially odd mechanic in a game where you ACTUALLY have immortality.

[Axelmania]

I wonder if you got Negate Super Powers from a magical source if you could permanence-ward it as a magical effect to keep a multiple lives guy from rebuilding his body until someone else came along to remove the ward.

[eliakon]

I wonder if you got Negate Super Powers from a magical source if you could permanence-ward it as a magical effect to keep a multiple lives guy from rebuilding his body until someone else came along to remove the ward.

Not with out a lot of house rules.
But if your happy with making all the needed house rules, and settling a number of "GM call"s in ways that allow this for your game, more power to you.

[fbdaury]

Also, the "life force" isn't "drained". The body dies, but the spirit lives on. It's anew body and one's endurance is in no way tied to one' spirit.

Except that it SPECIFICALLY states in the power description that the life force IS weakened every time the character is reborn- thus you cannot be reborn infinitely via multiple lives power. Your argument that this is a holdover from that other game system to avoid Immortality on the character's part is fallacious as this power is not Immortality and should not be confused with it or compared against it- it's apples and oranges. Think of it this way- the Multiple Lives power makes you like Doctor Who, the Immortality power (at least the Mega-Hero version) makes you a Highlander-style immortal without the quickening.

[Axelmania]

I wonder if you got Negate Super Powers from a magical source if you could permanence-ward it as a magical effect to keep a multiple lives guy from rebuilding his body until someone else came along to remove the ward.

Not with out a lot of house rules.
But if your happy with making all the needed house rules, and settling a number of "GM call"s in ways that allow this for your game, more power to you.

Anti-Magic Clouds remove the powers of Mystic Bestowed which makes them sound magic in nature though.

[barna10]

Also, the "life force" isn't "drained". The body dies, but the spirit lives on. It's anew body and one's endurance is in no way tied to one' spirit.

Except that it SPECIFICALLY states in the power description that the life force IS weakened every time the character is reborn- thus you cannot be reborn infinitely via multiple lives power. Your argument that this is a holdover from that other game system to avoid Immortality on the character's part is fallacious as this power is not Immortality and should not be confused with it or compared against it- it's apples and oranges. Think of it this way- the Multiple Lives power makes you like Doctor Who, the Immortality power (at least the Mega-Hero version) makes you a Highlander-style immortal without the quickening.

You are implying I misread the power, which I'm not. I'm saying the power should be rewritten. And yes, the dropping P.E. Rule is a direct hold over from tired, old Mechanics from the Sword & Sorcery days which have no place in a supers game. Also, dropping the experience level of the PC is sufficient to say the life-force is weakened. Dropping the P.E. Is a penalty that needs to be paid to make the other players happy.

[ShadowLogan]

Multiple Lives could come from other sources (Enchanted Weapon, Enchanted Object, a device, etc.).

Not sure about a device, but Enchanted Weapon/Object while a literal option could also be disallowed if you view it as an "immortality" power that can not be taken.

Also, the "life force" isn't "drained". The body dies, but the spirit lives on. It's anew body and one's endurance is in no way tied to one' spirit.

Except that is precisely what is stated in the official canon write up on the power as fbdaury said. "Unfortunately, the life force is drained with each regeneration and results in a somewhat weaker character" -HU2E pg283 second column second sentence in from the first full paragraph.

And the PE attribute is tied into the PPE of a person, it is also the attribute that determines physical survival from death/coma. So yes, PE is tied to the life force involved.

I do not see a reason that the power has to be re-written as you are calling for.

[barna10]

Multiple Lives could come from other sources (Enchanted Weapon, Enchanted Object, a device, etc.).

Not sure about a device, but Enchanted Weapon/Object while a literal option could also be disallowed if you view it as an "immortality" power that can not be taken.

Also, the "life force" isn't "drained". The body dies, but the spirit lives on. It's anew body and one's endurance is in no way tied to one' spirit.

Except that is precisely what is stated in the official canon write up on the power as fbdaury said. "Unfortunately, the life force is drained with each regeneration and results in a somewhat weaker character" -HU2E pg283 second column second sentence in from the first full paragraph.

And the PE attribute is tied into the PPE of a person, it is also the attribute that determines physical survival from death/coma. So yes, PE is tied to the life force involved.

I do not see a reason that the power has to be re-written as you are calling for.

Except your only argument is "the power says so", and I'm advocating that what the power says needs to be re-written....

Also, arguing that a save vs Coma/Death, PPE, etc is somehow tied to the physical form is really a moot point since the spirit is not subject to the same rules. It is PHYSICAL ENDURANCE, not META-PHYSICAL ENDURANCE.

Here's some conundrums for you:

What happens when the character involved also has Transferral/Possession power? Which P.E. do you use for the new body: the original or the possessed body? If you use the new one, how does this change the life force of the character?

What if the character had been the subject of a Transformation spell?

What if the character had acquired the Running skill, do you reduce the total P.E. or the adjusted one? If you reduce the adjusted one does this mean that exercise increases one's life force?

What if the hero's P.E. had been reduced right before death (say by using a power that temporarily reduces P.E.), which P.E. does the new body get? What if the P.E. had been reduced to 2?

All these questions make it pretty clear to me that P.E. is tied to the physical body, not the soul that inhabits it. One's life force can be strong in a weakling body.

Also, Enchanted Weapon doesn't prohibit "Immortality Powers", it explicitly prohibits "Immortality".

[SittingBull]

Yes PE and level drops but if you have a PE of 100 and be level 15 your still dead when the power is used up its number of times, so calling it life force is a bit deceiving.

[ShadowLogan]

Also, arguing that a save vs Coma/Death, PPE, etc is somehow tied to the physical form is really a moot point since the spirit is not subject to the same rules. It is PHYSICAL ENDURANCE, not META-PHYSICAL ENDURANCE.

Except that the life force/essence is creating a new physical form. And the way the attributes are constructed, the PE attribute is tied to the meta-physical endurance since it is the attribute that can modify your mystical energy that everyone has (not everyone has ISP, so that rules out ME, but everyone does have PPE) and your will to live.

What if the hero's P.E. had been reduced right before death (say by using a power that temporarily reduces P.E.), which P.E. does the new body get? What if the P.E. had been reduced to 2?

Basically this can answer you previous questions IMHO:

Temporarily alterations to PE attribute do not carry over or would even be considered in determining the new Base PE.

Permanent alterations to the PE attribute do carry over in determining the new base PE. This is easier record keeping I suspect, so you don't have to keep track of individual PE components that are permanent (unlike say a temporary change).

All these questions make it pretty clear to me that P.E. is tied to the physical body, not the soul that inhabits it. One's life force can be strong in a weakling body.

Except that the soul does not have to be the same as the life force/essence that Palladium is talking about, they could be two separate things.

[barna10]

After a night's sleep. P.P.E. is really what this should have been based on. You should lose 2 P.P.E. every time. This makes much more sense as it's actually tied to your essence, not your physical form (demonstrated by the fact you still have your P.P.E. when you go Astral). This also ties-in to Vampires, etc, meaning if you were slow drained by a vampire you wouldn't be able to come back to life.

Since every Super has at least 6D6 P.P.E. (which ISN'T increased by, or tied to in any way, P.E....contrary to the thought processes above...) , this should work just fine.

Also, I'd allow anyone with Chi powers to get some sort of advantage here since they are used to manipulating life force / chi.

[The Beast]

After a night's sleep. P.P.E. is really what this should have been based on. You should lose 2 P.P.E. every time. This makes much more sense as it's actually tied to your essence, not your physical form (demonstrated by the fact you still have your P.P.E. when you go Astral). This also ties-in to Vampires, etc, meaning if you were slow drained by a vampire you wouldn't be able to come back to life.

Since every Super has at least 6D6 P.P.E. (which ISN'T increased by, or tied to in any way, P.E....contrary to the thought processes above...) , this should work just fine.

Also, I'd allow anyone with Chi powers to get some sort of advantage here since they are used to manipulating life force / chi.

While I'd much rather have it tied to PPE as well, it's not tied to PPE because that wouldn't pose a penalty on the player most of the time. None of the powers are tied to PPE (except one that gives you extra PPE, and that's from a Rifter IIRC). If mutants had to spend PPE to get their powers (kind of like BIO-E with mutant animals) and/or improve them beyond the normal increase per level then it would be alright to have Multiple Lives use up PPE. (This plays into an observation I've made.)

[barna10]

After a night's sleep. P.P.E. is really what this should have been based on. You should lose 2 P.P.E. every time. This makes much more sense as it's actually tied to your essence, not your physical form (demonstrated by the fact you still have your P.P.E. when you go Astral). This also ties-in to Vampires, etc, meaning if you were slow drained by a vampire you wouldn't be able to come back to life.

Since every Super has at least 6D6 P.P.E. (which ISN'T increased by, or tied to in any way, P.E....contrary to the thought processes above...) , this should work just fine.

Also, I'd allow anyone with Chi powers to get some sort of advantage here since they are used to manipulating life force / chi.

While I'd much rather have it tied to PPE as well, it's not tied to PPE because that wouldn't pose a penalty on the player most of the time. None of the powers are tied to PPE (except one that gives you extra PPE, and that's from a Rifter IIRC). If mutants had to spend PPE to get their powers (kind of like BIO-E with mutant animals) and/or improve them beyond the normal increase per level then it would be alright to have Multiple Lives use up PPE. (This plays into an observation I've made.)

But why's there HAVE to be a penalty? This is a super-power. 99% of powers don't have a "penalty", why this one? What's the point of penalizing players/characters for playing the game?

[Nightmask]

After a night's sleep. P.P.E. is really what this should have been based on. You should lose 2 P.P.E. every time. This makes much more sense as it's actually tied to your essence, not your physical form (demonstrated by the fact you still have your P.P.E. when you go Astral). This also ties-in to Vampires, etc, meaning if you were slow drained by a vampire you wouldn't be able to come back to life.

Since every Super has at least 6D6 P.P.E. (which ISN'T increased by, or tied to in any way, P.E....contrary to the thought processes above...) , this should work just fine.

Also, I'd allow anyone with Chi powers to get some sort of advantage here since they are used to manipulating life force / chi.

While I'd much rather have it tied to PPE as well, it's not tied to PPE because that wouldn't pose a penalty on the player most of the time. None of the powers are tied to PPE (except one that gives you extra PPE, and that's from a Rifter IIRC). If mutants had to spend PPE to get their powers (kind of like BIO-E with mutant animals) and/or improve them beyond the normal increase per level then it would be alright to have Multiple Lives use up PPE. (This plays into an observation I've made.)

But why's there HAVE to be a penalty? This is a super-power. 99% of powers don't have a "penalty", why this one? What's the point of penalizing players/characters for playing the game?

Quite so, not like the similar power has any such drawbacks in the Marvel Super-hero RPG, not unless you took such a limitation specifically to increase the power rank. Considering you can be killed for good anyway if anyone finds and destroys your developing body in the new location it just comes off bogus that the power actually has such a limitation.

[barna10]

Quite so, not like the similar power has any such drawbacks in the Marvel Super-hero RPG, not unless you took such a limitation specifically to increase the power rank. Considering you can be killed for good anyway if anyone finds and destroys your developing body in the new location it just comes off bogus that the power actually has such a limitation.

Agreed.

It's almost as if people think taking the power is somehow cheating and you want to limit how many times the player can cheat. Much like the Conjurer having to pay P.P.E., permanently, to create a baseball or the Fleshsculpter having to lose P.P.E., permanently, to fix someone's limp. Oh, the cheating abounds! You can make someone stay dead for free, but fix their limp and you're going to pay!

[Nightmask]

Quite so, not like the similar power has any such drawbacks in the Marvel Super-hero RPG, not unless you took such a limitation specifically to increase the power rank. Considering you can be killed for good anyway if anyone finds and destroys your developing body in the new location it just comes off bogus that the power actually has such a limitation.

Agreed.

It's almost as if people think taking the power is somehow cheating and you want to limit how many times the player can cheat. Much like the Conjurer having to pay P.P.E., permanently, to create a baseball or the Fleshsculpter having to lose P.P.E., permanently, to fix someone's limp. Oh, the cheating abounds! You can make someone stay dead for free, but fix their limp and you're going to pay!

I don't remember Fleshsculpter's having that problem, one of the few cases I remember of permanent PPE cost was when you were replacing more than a third of someone's body (and nothing says you can't replace say 20% now then another 20% later until you've fully regenerated the entire thing). It is bizarre that some do see it as 'cheating' for a character with the explicit power to return from the dead not suffering for it in some fashion, preferably suffering that will ensure they end up dead anyway (and if memory serves the power had a limit on how many times it could revive you anyway so you couldn't be a Leeroy Jenkins repeatedly getting killed and coming back indefinitely, you only had a limited number of reboots available). Then again they act like having Invulnerability is cheating because 'oh no he's UNSTOPPABLE now that he can't be hurt!', in spite of there being plenty of ways to stop someone with Invulnerability that don't require beating the SDC and HP out of them.

The character with Multiple Lives already has the problem that he loses out on time spent regenerating and since his power seeks out a random location to regenerate in and its completely vulnerable while doing so one could easily end up someplace and end up dead because of a spooked bear or freaked out hunter eager to kill the 'obvious' alien breeding pod before it hatches. He's lost any gear he had with him at the time and likely won't be able to recover it and has to deal with the issues of being totally naked in some random location he likely has no idea where he's at (and as we see in Forever the immortal title character is often getting in trouble because his power causes him to reappear in the closest body of water so he's regularly getting arrested for public nudity when he come out of the river and has to deal with his colleagues in the police department thinking he's got a fetish for swimming naked and exposing himself that they cut him slack on because of his forensic skills). There are also several other powers that you CAN get disintegrated and be restored from completely without penalty as well (and the Mega-Power of Immortal Regeneration isn't far off from that, since you can be reduced to a skeleton and still regenerate, albeit long after the campaign is over).

[barna10]

There are several Flesh Sculptor spells that require the permanent sacrifice of P.P.E. by the caster (...not in my games...): Replace Limb, Meld Living Flesh & Bone, Total Replacement, and Reconstructive Restoration penalizes the recipient of the magic...oh those evil people that want to heal! Again, I cna walk up to you and cut your arm off, no problem. If I want to magically replace it, I must sacrifice!

[Nightmask]

There are several Flesh Sculptor spells that require the permanent sacrifice of P.P.E. by the caster (...not in my games...): Replace Limb, Meld Living Flesh & Bone, Total Replacement, and Reconstructive Restoration penalizes the recipient of the magic...oh those evil people that want to heal! Again, I cna walk up to you and cut your arm off, no problem. If I want to magically replace it, I must sacrifice!

Hmmm, I need to recheck those spells but Total Replacement only incurs a permanent PPE loss if you have to replace too much of the body which as I noted you aren't listed as having to do it all at once. So someone missing an arm, which would be quite a bit less than 33% of the body, would be regenerated completely without any need to sacrifice PPE. I do also remember that Reconstructive Restoration had some minor penalties for repairing someone, but yes you're certainly spot in with the sarcasm regarding punishing people for wanting to heal. They want to enforce the horror tropes of the setting for Nightspawn by making it difficult and costly to fix someone back to full health, even when the magic really shouldn't get stuck with such penalties since it should be up to a GM whether or not to enforce any such tropes rather than making it a built-in rule like that on the spells. Heck for all that AD&D was out to screw over the characters at every opportunity healing magic didn't come with any such penalties, you could fix someone to perfect without much difficulty provided your cleric was high enough level to cast spells like Restoration and Regeneration.

[SittingBull]

Quite so, not like the similar power has any such drawbacks in the Marvel Super-hero RPG, not unless you took such a limitation specifically to increase the power rank. Considering you can be killed for good anyway if anyone finds and destroys your developing body in the new location it just comes off bogus that the power actually has such a limitation.

Agreed.

It's almost as if people think taking the power is somehow cheating and you want to limit how many times the player can cheat. Much like the Conjurer having to pay P.P.E., permanently, to create a baseball or the Fleshsculpter having to lose P.P.E., permanently, to fix someone's limp. Oh, the cheating abounds! You can make someone stay dead for free, but fix their limp and you're going to pay!

I don't remember Fleshsculpter's having that problem, one of the few cases I remember of permanent PPE cost was when you were replacing more than a third of someone's body (and nothing says you can't replace say 20% now then another 20% later until you've fully regenerated the entire thing). It is bizarre that some do see it as 'cheating' for a character with the explicit power to return from the dead not suffering for it in some fashion, preferably suffering that will ensure they end up dead anyway (and if memory serves the power had a limit on how many times it could revive you anyway so you couldn't be a Leeroy Jenkins repeatedly getting killed and coming back indefinitely, you only had a limited number of reboots available). Then again they act like having Invulnerability is cheating because 'oh no he's UNSTOPPABLE now that he can't be hurt!', in spite of there being plenty of ways to stop someone with Invulnerability that don't require beating the SDC and HP out of them.

The character with Multiple Lives already has the problem that he loses out on time spent regenerating and since his power seeks out a random location to regenerate in and its completely vulnerable while doing so one could easily end up someplace and end up dead because of a spooked bear or freaked out hunter eager to kill the 'obvious' alien breeding pod before it hatches. He's lost any gear he had with him at the time and likely won't be able to recover it and has to deal with the issues of being totally naked in some random location he likely has no idea where he's at (and as we see in Forever the immortal title character is often getting in trouble because his power causes him to reappear in the closest body of water so he's regularly getting arrested for public nudity when he come out of the river and has to deal with his colleagues in the police department thinking he's got a fetish for swimming naked and exposing himself that they cut him slack on because of his forensic skills). There are also several other powers that you CAN get disintegrated and be restored from completely without penalty as well (and the Mega-Power of Immortal Regeneration isn't far off from that, since you can be reduced to a skeleton and still regenerate, albeit long after the campaign is over).

No where does it say a random location. "The life force then drifts to a reasonably safe location and begins to generate a new body." ... "The life force, can travel up to 100 miles in its search for a safe and isolated location." Page 283 right column first whole sentence for first quote sentence. Second quoted sentence is last sentence before the Note.

[SittingBull]

After a night's sleep. P.P.E. is really what this should have been based on. You should lose 2 P.P.E. every time. This makes much more sense as it's actually tied to your essence, not your physical form (demonstrated by the fact you still have your P.P.E. when you go Astral). This also ties-in to Vampires, etc, meaning if you were slow drained by a vampire you wouldn't be able to come back to life.

Since every Super has at least 6D6 P.P.E. (which ISN'T increased by, or tied to in any way, P.E....contrary to the thought processes above...) , this should work just fine.

Also, I'd allow anyone with Chi powers to get some sort of advantage here since they are used to manipulating life force / chi.

Characters with this power are immune to a vampire's bite; can't be turned into the undead.

[SittingBull]

There are several Flesh Sculptor spells that require the permanent sacrifice of P.P.E. by the caster (...not in my games...): Replace Limb, Meld Living Flesh & Bone, Total Replacement, and Reconstructive Restoration penalizes the recipient of the magic...oh those evil people that want to heal! Again, I cna walk up to you and cut your arm off, no problem. If I want to magically replace it, I must sacrifice!

It is easier to destroy than it is to create.

[Nightmask]

Quite so, not like the similar power has any such drawbacks in the Marvel Super-hero RPG, not unless you took such a limitation specifically to increase the power rank. Considering you can be killed for good anyway if anyone finds and destroys your developing body in the new location it just comes off bogus that the power actually has such a limitation.

Agreed.

It's almost as if people think taking the power is somehow cheating and you want to limit how many times the player can cheat. Much like the Conjurer having to pay P.P.E., permanently, to create a baseball or the Fleshsculpter having to lose P.P.E., permanently, to fix someone's limp. Oh, the cheating abounds! You can make someone stay dead for free, but fix their limp and you're going to pay!

I don't remember Fleshsculpter's having that problem, one of the few cases I remember of permanent PPE cost was when you were replacing more than a third of someone's body (and nothing says you can't replace say 20% now then another 20% later until you've fully regenerated the entire thing). It is bizarre that some do see it as 'cheating' for a character with the explicit power to return from the dead not suffering for it in some fashion, preferably suffering that will ensure they end up dead anyway (and if memory serves the power had a limit on how many times it could revive you anyway so you couldn't be a Leeroy Jenkins repeatedly getting killed and coming back indefinitely, you only had a limited number of reboots available). Then again they act like having Invulnerability is cheating because 'oh no he's UNSTOPPABLE now that he can't be hurt!', in spite of there being plenty of ways to stop someone with Invulnerability that don't require beating the SDC and HP out of them.

The character with Multiple Lives already has the problem that he loses out on time spent regenerating and since his power seeks out a random location to regenerate in and its completely vulnerable while doing so one could easily end up someplace and end up dead because of a spooked bear or freaked out hunter eager to kill the 'obvious' alien breeding pod before it hatches. He's lost any gear he had with him at the time and likely won't be able to recover it and has to deal with the issues of being totally naked in some random location he likely has no idea where he's at (and as we see in Forever the immortal title character is often getting in trouble because his power causes him to reappear in the closest body of water so he's regularly getting arrested for public nudity when he come out of the river and has to deal with his colleagues in the police department thinking he's got a fetish for swimming naked and exposing himself that they cut him slack on because of his forensic skills). There are also several other powers that you CAN get disintegrated and be restored from completely without penalty as well (and the Mega-Power of Immortal Regeneration isn't far off from that, since you can be reduced to a skeleton and still regenerate, albeit long after the campaign is over).

No where does it say a random location. "The life force then drifts to a reasonably safe location and begins to generate a new body." ... "The life force, can travel up to 100 miles in its search for a safe and isolated location." Page 283 right column first whole sentence for first quote sentence. Second quoted sentence is last sentence before the Note.

Right, and nowhere in there does that make the location any less random.

[barna10]

There are several Flesh Sculptor spells that require the permanent sacrifice of P.P.E. by the caster (...not in my games...): Replace Limb, Meld Living Flesh & Bone, Total Replacement, and Reconstructive Restoration penalizes the recipient of the magic...oh those evil people that want to heal! Again, I cna walk up to you and cut your arm off, no problem. If I want to magically replace it, I must sacrifice!

It is easier to destroy than it is to create.

Hardly a good rationale when, as Nightmask pointed out, other games aren't nearly as strict. Palladium is just very pessimistic. I'd rather reward passive abilities like healing and restrict offensive abilities.

[eliakon]

There are several Flesh Sculptor spells that require the permanent sacrifice of P.P.E. by the caster (...not in my games...): Replace Limb, Meld Living Flesh & Bone, Total Replacement, and Reconstructive Restoration penalizes the recipient of the magic...oh those evil people that want to heal! Again, I cna walk up to you and cut your arm off, no problem. If I want to magically replace it, I must sacrifice!

It is easier to destroy than it is to create.

Hardly a good rationale when, as Nightmask pointed out, other games aren't nearly as strict. Palladium is just very pessimistic. I'd rather reward passive abilities like healing and restrict offensive abilities.

Actually all of those spells either require the expenditure of large amounts (a few hundred) PPE OR the caster can use a trivial amount of PPE...but its base.
So...sure you can do most of that healing, permanently ...it just happens to cost a lot of PPE. Which makes sense. Its easy to kill something, but rather hard to resurrect them. Its easy to break something its a bit harder to put it together again.
Now if you want a D&D style game where there is cheap, easy healing everywhere by all means, change things... I would also suggest looking at PF and Rifts for your healing spells, which is where the really potent stuff is. It will have a lot of ripple on effects though.

And yes, Nightmask makes a very good point that these are Nightbane spells. Its a horror game where the entire setting is one of doom, despair, magic is dark, and its really hard to have nice things.
Its much more interesting to note that many of the healing spells in games such as Rifts and Palladium Fantasy are cheap, easy, some even are area of effect!. There are even mid level low cost spells that can raise the dead!
But those games DONT privilege healing...in them healing isn't an issue, and is expected, magic is just a tool, and reality itself isn't out to get the PCs.....so of course their spells are going to be a bit more like what most people think of when they think 'wizard spells'